Head Space vs. Heart Space

In today's episode, Christine Samuel shares her intimate understanding of the intricate balance between analytical headspace and the intuitive heart space, particularly as it pertains to grief and life's inevitable changes.

Once our understanding of this difference grows, we are asked to consider the following:  What if the borders we see on maps didn't really exist, as when we gaze upon our Earth from the vastness of space?  We dare everyone to imagine a world without borders defined by humans - cultures and ethnicities that blend as families -- diverse, accepting, supporting and loving.  From such a unified perspective might emerge a more compassionate and connected existence.

Contact:
www.asiliveandgrieve.com
info@asiliveandgrieve.com
Facebook:  As I Live and Grieve
Instagram:  @asiliveandgrieve
YouTube:  asiliveandgrieve

To Reach Christine:
Website: https://christinesamuel.ca
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/christinesamuelhere/
LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/christine-samuel/

Credits: 
Music by Kevin MacLeod 

Transcript

Stephanie: 0:01

Welcome to, As I Live and Grieve, a podcast that tells the truth about how hard this is. We're glad you joined us today. We know how hard it is to lose someone you love and how well-intentioned friends and family try so hard to comfort us. We created this podcast to provide you with comfort, knowledge and support. We are grief advocates, not professionals, not licensed therapists. We are you.

Kathy: 0:25

Hi everyone, and w elcome back again to As I Live and Grieve. First I'm going to give you my apology and disclaimer. I am getting over a horrible cold. My doctor almost thought I had the trifecta and tested me for COVID, RSV and the flu. All were negative, thankfully. Nasty head cold, so my voice may sound a little gravelly. Anyway, welcome back again. I'm so glad that you've taken the time to listen again today.

Kathy: 0:52

You know, I promise you every time a great guest and this time is no exception. First is my younger daughter, Kelly. Kelly's stepping in where Stephanie used to step, to see if she might like to take on this venture with me. Joining Kelly and I today is Christine Samuel. Christine is someone who crossed paths with me on Facebook. I love when this happens. It's oh, it's Kismet, it's Karma of the best kind, and Christine and I are going to talk about a very special topic. Christine, thanks so much for joining me today.

Christine: 1:29

Well, thank you, Kathy, for having me, and it's such an honor to be here to speak about what people don't speak about much, and to be here with your missions and helping others to overcome, or to be with them, as they're grieving.

Kathy: 1:45

Absolutely. Some of our listeners are grieving, have grieved, but certainly are going to grieve. Others are listening because they know someone who's really, really struggling and they want to be able to help them, and I really think our conversation today is going to accomplish that very quickly. So before we get started, Christine, would you just give a little bit of your background to our listeners, please?

Christine: 2:09

Sure, I came from Indonesia, like 25 years ago and I know in my life that this is the path that I'm taking, which is the least traveled path. I moved to Canada, started my career in design, user experience, design and information technology, built my career for 20 years and then, through my personal and spiritual growth, there's something in me that is knocking at my door. Basically, in my work, in my corporate work, what I do is I help design user experience. So, when you go into websites or applications, how does we create a nice experience, intuitive experience, for the users? But my real passion is not about just that. It's about what is human experience, how we create a transformative human experience.

Christine: 3:08

So what I did is I left my corporate career and venture into the unknown, because this is what happened. Right, we always repeat what we do every single day. We go to work the same place, we walk the same path, the same road. We do the same thing every day and we get paid well because we do the same thing every day, and the more we do it well, the better we get paid. So my brain is very comfortable with what I know and what I find is I need to explore what I don't know, because what I know doesn't really give me fulfillment and satisfaction and I need to allow myself to be in unknowing. So I've been basically living my hard path for the last three years, writing a book about the heart space to help people overcome the uncertainty, to help people deal with uncertainty with grace and ease. So this is where I am. I help people transition through their life from what they know to what they know.

Kathy: 4:19

Transition is one of my favorite words. I feel like I have transitioned in my grief journey, for example, Especially over the last three years doing this podcast. This podcast has been so therapeutic for me and it certainly wasn't something I anticipated when I started out. Now, one of the things that you first mentioned the words that I saw on Facebook that really gravitated me in your direction was you used two terms. One was heart space, which you just used again, and the other was head space. Can you kind of define those for us and then maybe in general terms, and then maybe more specifically, how they might relate to grief?

Christine: 5:02

Yeah, definitely. So I believe we are systems, like human being, are a system, and this system has dual operation system and the dual operation system is the head space and the heart space. So the idea of operation system is like our mental processing and, as we all know, the head space for me, is where we think analytically, conceptually, and anything that intellect that we use, or intellect or reasoning is all come from the headspace. And this analytical capacity that we have has a nature of it. Right, it's basically like a knife. It's cut things into small pieces because it's narrow focus. Right, it has tendency to confine exploration to specific details and particular difference. It's also comparison based.

Christine: 6:00

So we always compare. When we compare, when we analyze, it's like is it better or worse, is it good or bad, is it light or dark, is it darker? So it's like is it good enough or not good enough, is it right or wrong? Those are coming from the head space because it's have ability to label something. Right, it has ability to say this, not that, or that, not this. So it's really helped us to go through our survival in this three dimensional world. For example, if you go in a wilderness and you see a branch, a dry, with a branch on the on the ground and you said, wow, that's a snake, and it happened to be a branch. You're not going to die, right, but if you see a snake and you think it's a branch, you would likely get hurt. So our brain developed this capacity to identify a thing, and most thing that it does is for our survival needs, to detect worse case scenario. Because when you have a worse case scenario, when you need you, you be able to identify worse scenario or there's an enemy on the other side, there's dangers. You would like it to be safe, even though you're you have a wrong assumption, right? So then we get used to using our analytical skill to predict worse case scenario instead of good scenarios, and that's why we always, most of the time we get overthink, because we analyze things into small details, right, is it right? Is it wrong? Is it right, wrong? So it's that's, that's a head space. It's good for a certain point, but if you're using it for everything is, it's not good. Like anything, like if you eat, if you have salt and you have a little bit, it's fun, right, it's, it tastes good, but if you have too much of it, it's really not good for you. So the same thing with with the, our ability on our head space.

Christine: 8:04

Now our heart space is a very different mentalities where it's more generative, it's more relational, it's more experiential. The idea is you are, instead of like understanding, like know about. So the head space is about know about, right. So if you have a, a concept like a chocolate cake, is you know? You have a chocolate cake before and you talk to your friend yeah, yeah, I have a chocolate cake and this is the taste. Right, it's you.

Christine: 8:35

It's not an experience, because the experience is in the, the old way, but the, the heart space, is about an experience. It's about connection, it's about being with, and I put the heart space definition as a gentle holding space where all feelings and thoughts and sensation are welcome. This is a space where we can have a loving relationship with our complexity and contradiction. No pushing, no pulling, just is with a deliberately deliberate gentle holding. A different kind of intelligence and capacity emerges through this experience. We finally understand from the core of our being, in relationship with ourselves, others and the planet, that we are enough, whole and always interconnected.

Christine: 9:23

Now then you that it's related with grief, because with grief what happened is we lost part of ourselves, we lost someone. We love, right? A nd the head space is basically intolerant of any gap, any things that you cannot comprehend. And because it's like, intolerant with the unknown, it's inability to accept what it can't comprehend, it tried to create a story. It tried to create why is it happened? It tries and, because of its narrow focus, it cannot see the whole pictures of what grief is about. So, when the heart space different is, because grief is really have different, so many feelings, so you're able to hold your grief, your sadness or whatever you feel, and be able to hold it a bit longer to really experience it, instead of avoiding or trying to control the feeling, so that a new insight, a new wisdom emerge from it. I hope that's, I know it's long.

Kathy: 10:24

Has anyone ever told you, Christine, that you are an eloquent speaker?

Kathy: 10:30

Your words your words are beautiful, thank you. M y mind immediately went to, so I kind of grasped initially, Kelly, see if you agree with this, that the head space is what you know, but your heart space is what you feel more emotional. That was the first thing I grasped. I was reminded of another guest I had on the podcast a long time ago and she wrote a book. Her name is Mary Frances O'Connor and her the title of her book was The Grieving Brain, and one of the favorite things that she said she was trying to help us understand why months after a loss, for example, if you heard the automatic garage door opener go, you might automatically think it's 5:15, my husband is home, even though it's been months and months and months and that hasn't happened.

Kathy: 11:22

So she gave an analogy that you have this dining room table and in the middle of the night you want to go get a drink of water in the kitchen. All the lights are off in the house, it's dark, but you know your way because you've walked it so many times. You're walking in your bare feet. You go to the dining room and all of a sudden it occurs to you that where you generally stub your toe, you didn't stub your toe, and you turn the lights on only to find out that your dining room table has been stolen. These things get patterned, they get imprinted into your brain and because we know them, that experience of that knowledge tends to be a little stronger than the emotions sometimes, because that's what is scientific fact, and you know I have a scientific and analytic brain. I struggle with this all the time. So what you've said now and your clarification really, really helped, really did.

Kathy: 12:14

I agree that was wonderfully put. It made me visualize it actually Yep, yep. So now that we've done that and we kind of can get a feeling where this is going with grief, is there anything we can do about it? What should we work on? What should we try to do to help ourselves move through our grief?

Christine: 12:34

Yes, now I just want to share some stories. So when I wrote this book, in the chapter that talked about the heart space, my dad passed away. So my dad lived in Indonesia and I'm in Canada and it's still COVID and it's really sad because I haven't seen him for four years because we cannotwe cannotwhen for visit and I had to mourn by myself here in Canada. You know like I have relationship with my dad in different way than my husband and my kids, so I feel like I mourn by myself. And what I did was I went to a park one day and, you know, luckily at that this time, you know, people were wearing masks. So I just cry. I just cry, bawling my eyes, crying in this park, and nobody really know it because I put my mask. I was there with my eight years old daughter at that moment. I would just let my grief out and let my sadness out. And then, on the way home, my daughter told me Mommy, why don't you hug a tree so you feel better? Because there's a row of trees on the way home, big old trees. So I thought, yeah, why not? So with my tears that had not dry yet, I hugged the tree and I put my heart, my chest, touching the tree like so deeply on that side, and I give the tree a hug, close my eyes, I cry, and what happened is then the tree spoke to me. The tree spoke to me and not in words, but in this sensations of, and it says we're here for you. We're here for you and I just my mind get visualized this, ideas where all the roots of the trees in that park, the whole thing, as we know that the roots are interconnected with one another. Trees never work like, never live alone. They always send information, send nutrients with one another, and I just felt the whole network of the roots, the tree in that park, it's holding me, holding me and I felt, wow, I'm not alone. And I felt we just need to remember that we're never alone.

Christine: 14:56

And what I did after my dad passed away, I start looking more on near-death experience, like YouTube, like finding what is near-death experiences, and I realize all the stories pretty much has the same idea there is life after death. So for me, I feel alone. I feel sad, of course, like I never be able to see my dad again, but if we realize that the life is not just here right now, but there is life after we are not just physical being but also spiritual being, that we all are connected and the love that we have for people we love that already passed away is never, never leave us, never change. And that is connection that always connect us with people that left us. And for me, understanding, understanding that like still holding my grief of course I'm gonna be sad, of course, every time I think about him, every song that he sang, then I hear again. I remember him. Of course I feel sad, but I know I'm not separate from him because through our love together, through the moments, through the memories, through everything, through why I choose to be his daughter and he choose to be my dad before we come to this world, there is connection.

Christine: 16:24

So when we realize that we are not alone, then this life is not just life with blank space before and after, but it's all interconnected. There's beauty. There's beauty in it Because then we remember when we in grief, the idea of grieving is. It's an opportunity to really soften our heart, like when you grieve when you lost someone. It's never been the same, but that way it helps us to be always tender, because when we are tender we can live and experience life even more, because with love there's grief. With love, love there's loss. With love there's broken heart. They're not two different things, they are the same thing, because through those broken heart to those lost, we feel how much love we have and that's what matters the most.

Kathy: 17:18

That was a beautiful story. I had tears, I had chills, I had goosebumps. It was beautiful, beautiful. Let me see now if I have the concept correct. Bear with me everyone. Here goes my analytical brain. Your daughter suggested you hug a tree. Your head space thought what's that going to do? I could get dirty, there could be dirt on this tree. I'm going to hug a tree. It's not going to do anything for me. It's not my father, it's not going to stop me crying. But you opened your mind and allowed your heart space to open with me. You hugged that tree. You sobbed and remembered your father. Maybe for an instant you remembered what it felt like to have your arms around your dad, as he had his arms around your shoulders, holding you close. And because you had your open mind and your heart space was allowed to be prominent and take priority, you were able to release some of that emotional tension and some of that sadness and despair. How'd I do?

Christine: 18:30

Yes, and I want to add something in what you're saying. In this world, this is about heart space as well. We are connected with other humans, connected with our family, with our loved ones. We're always connected with other beings in this world, which is trees, plants, birds, because I think through the tree, scientifically, we can speak trees as energy or some chart, where it's basically allowing human to be grounded, to feel grounded In scientific perspective. That's also helped when I hug a tree, because there's a high chart in me at that moment. Being with the trees helped me calm me down energetically. So it's all related.

Christine: 19:20

And what happened also is see, I can hug a tree. What people think about me if I hug a tree-like crazy person or like what is it, it doesn't help. But by opening my heart, I allow intuition and different kind of sensory system that I have capacity as human to inform me right to whatever image I come out with at that moment, whatever words that come out. That is not because what I know. I know a tree doesn't talk, but at that moment my intuition opened and the tree, in a way that's connected, speaks to me in a way that I understand what I needed at that moment.

Kathy: 20:05

Absolutely. That's amazing. Okay, I'm just processing my thoughts. I love this concept. I love it. Now I read a sample chapter and you're going to tell our listeners later how to get it. You had another phrase that I wanted to explore for just a few minutes, and that was you talked about a mind-made concept. Can you just kind of explain what a mind-made concept is?

Christine: 20:33

Yeah, in my book, you know, before going to the heart space, I just basically my intent is to allow every one of us to be aware what kind of life we're having, right? So the mind-made concept this is in my book I mentioned in that chapter it's like, if you, if you, look at the globe from the outer space we have a lot of pictures and videos from outer space about the earth, our mother earth, and you see this beautiful clouds and and ocean and lands, green, blue, white, from above but if you see from those pictures you cannot see country borders, right, there's no. You cannot see country borders between the states and Canada. In those you can only see country borders, like borders between the land and the water, the ocean, right, but never a border between countries that you see in a map, in Google map or in the globe that men made. So what happened is in nature. There is no country border. We created it with our mind and through that creations of mind-made creation of country border there is. We have passport, we have immigration law, we have war, we have, you know, different countries, different like trade agreement, all those stuff. It's because one ideas of country border, whereas the birds don't have, doesn't have to have passport to go across, right? So there are.

Christine: 22:14

And also, why do we have to work nine to five? Why we retired when we are 65, 60 years old? We have to retire, we work the whole life and retired to see five. And we see these things like the sun rise on the east and set on the west, like as nature, as as the nature. But it's not, it's a mind-made.

Christine: 22:41

What happened is so, most of our life, most of the rule we make to ourselves, most of success we think is success is not natural, is a mind-made, is made in your mind and in my mind. So if that's the case, you know you cannot change the rule that you know. Now the sun rises from the west, you cannot do that because it's that, that's the way, the law of nature, right? You cannot change the law of gravity where, like when you throw a ball, it's going, it's not, it's go up and disappear, it's always going to go down. But because it's mind-made, you can change it because it's made in your mind and you always can change your mind.

Christine: 23:24

So the idea of grief that when we lost someone, that's, that's it, right, it's probably a mind-made idea of our collective awareness at this moment. You know you see in the movie, but is that true? Is that really true, right? Is that really true? That you cannot connect with your loved ones in a different dimension? Is that really true? You cannot connect with them in your heart, even though you can see them?

Kathy: 23:54

It's up to the individual to believe. It's up to the individual and that's exactly why I think that phrase meant something to me. And okay, listeners, I'm going to tie it all together now for you. You might wonder why on earth are they talking about this stuff? When I'm grieving, I hurt.

Kathy: 24:15

We want you to pick a few things up from this. As far as the mind-made concept you may have had someone say to you but still grieving, it's been a year, come on. That's their mind-made concept Doesn't relate to you and your grief at all, because everyone's grief is different. We've established that so many times talking to our guests on this podcast. Another mind-made concept Ah, you'll get over it. I'm never going to get over my grief For my four major losses. My grief for each one is different. I was a different age, I was at a different period in my life, I was at a different financial status in my life. Every one of those is vastly different, vastly different. Don't tell me I'm going to get over it. I'm not. That's your mind-made concept. So from that piece of it, listeners, I want you to know that you have the right to grieve how you need to grieve, with the disclaimer being if you are stuck to the point that your health and or safety is at risk, you need to seek some professional help. You need to because you can't go on like that forever and I want you to know that. But if your grief is three months, six months, a year, three years, you're doing everything you need to do, you're paying your bills, you're out there working and everything else. You are allowed to feel as sad as you want to feel. Hopefully it's interspersed with some happy times too. It should be a wave going up and down, and up and down, and up and down. You should have those triggers that will bring you back to those memories that are still going to hurt so deeply. But you're going to learn to know the difference between those mind-made concepts and your own. You're going to learn to tell the difference between your headspace and your heart space, and it is my wish that each and every one of you, I'm always saying open your mind.

Kathy: 26:14

Today I'm going to add open your hearts, open your hearts and let that love that will, come in, let the energy come in from places you might not expect it. It could be from a daffodil, which hopefully I will see within a couple of months. Now I'm in the north where there's usually snow, I want to see those daffodils, one of my favorite flowers. When you see those things, every living thing has energy. If it's a puppy, we know we can cuddle a puppy or a kitty or something cute.

Kathy: 26:45

Kelly has the luxury of cuddling sometimes baby goats and ducks and chickens and all kinds of stuff on her property, but you can cuddle those and, gosh, they snuggle back. A daffodil won't snuggle back, but you can stick your nose in it and get pollen on your nose. You can hug a tree and feel for a minute the energy of the tree and imagine that the tree you're hugging is really the person you loved and lost. Does that make sense? Anyone, anyone, Bueller? I hope it does. Time is winding down quickly and I always get sad when this happens, because I enjoy these conversations so much and, Christine, it's been no different today. I've thoroughly enjoyed this, but before I actually wrap up, I'm going to turn the microphone over to you. I want you to tell the people listening about your book when it's coming out, how they can get a copy and anything else you might like to tell them, without me interrupting and changing the focus and changing the topic. So go ahead, the microphone is yours.

Christine: 27:46

Thank you, Kathy. So yes, I really hope this book will change many people's lives to see the wisdom inside themselves, because the solutions or things that we're looking for is not outside, it's from inside, and the wisdom that we have is always from within. As long as we know, we have a different capacity, not just our intellect, but our heart. Our heart is huge and fast and we can always rely on it to hold us in it. So you can find, you can go to my website, christensamuel. ca, to get a free chapter on my book, the book called Heart Space: Living with Grace and Ease in an Era of Uncertainty". The book will be launched in April 20th, 2024, will be available at Amazon and other spaces, but before, even before it launch, you always can download and read the chapter there.

Christine: 28:46

Yeah, so, and I also give away newsletters t hat have insights weekly. I also facilitated deep listening circle meetups because I know in the world right now the biggest yearning that every human needs is to be seen and acknowledge, and how wonderful the world will be if we able to listen deeply to others and also to ourselves, and also to our grief and our sadness, and that's okay to have those feelings, and I want to leave you with words of Jack Kornfield for those of you who are grieving or helping others to grieve in their grief.

Christine: 29:29

"Those we love never truly leave us. There are things that death cannot touch.", and in grief there are so many feelings. Sometimes, when you grieve, I invite you to notice that, because the grief doesn't come just about feeling lost, losing a loved one or missing a loved one. There are also love in it, there's also gratitude, there are also beautiful memories that give us this smile and cry. So with grief we learn about accepting all our feelings in it. And with grief, what happened with grief? Is it remind us of something we lost, and that empty space is a space for us to grow, to grow new things, new life, and that is a legacy of people that we love." Thank you, kathy.

Kathy: 30:21

Oh, Christine, thank you again so much for joining us today. I have really, really enjoyed our conversation. I can't wait for your book to come out so I can read it and try to match all these other analytical concepts. My brain is going to have a holiday, listeners. Thank you again so much. As with every episode and every guest, Christine's contact information will be in the podcast notes and on our website as well. I encourage you to connect with her newsletter so that when her book does launch, you'll know about it right away and you can grab a copy for yourself.

Kathy: 30:55

For those who might have thought, you know, that sounds great, Kathy, but that concept is just a little too hard for me to understand right now. I get it. I get it. We're not always at a point where we can think about certain things in certain ways, but I don't want to leave without reminding everyone. If you think of nothing else from today, just think for a moment. Picture, close your eyes, picture what Christine said when she talked about the photograph of our Earth from space. You see the land, you see the ocean, you see the edges of the land as it meets the water. You may see some clouds over there too, but nowhere, nowhere in that photograph will you see a border between two countries, whether they agree or disagree. You will not see a border. So maybe if we can just open our hearts, open our minds, and imagine for a minute, wouldn't that be a wonderful world? Take care of yourselves, everyone, and come back again, as we all continue to live and grieve .