Artistic Expression and Grief

Join us today as Sonya Paz, opens up about guiding her sons through the grieving process after the passing of their father. Her story is a testament to the transformative power of art, as she shares the evolution of her work from somber tones to a celebration of color and life, taking cues from Picasso and American pop art. Through Sonya's varied platforms, including her art website and the 'Investigated' and 'Rockstar Mentor' podcasts, she offers a beacon of hope and guidance for those navigating the stormy seas of grief.  Please listen as art and personal growth intertwine.

Contact:
www.asiliveandgrieve.com
info@asiliveandgrieve.com
Facebook:  As I Live and Grieve
Instagram:  @asiliveandgrieve
YouTube:  asiliveandgrieve
TikTok: tiktok.com/@asiliveandgrieve

To Reach Sonya:
Sonya Paz Art & Design
Visit our fun and colorful website: https://sonyapaz.com/shop
Like us on Facebook!  https://www.facebook.com/sonyapazgallery
Follow us on Instagram! https://instagram.com/sonyapaz
Follow me on LinkedIn! https://www.linkedin.com/in/sonyapaz/

Investigated Podcast: https://investigatedpod.com/
Rockstar Mentor Podcast: https://rockstarmentor.com/
VinoPaint Creative: https://vinopaint.com/
 

Credits: 
Music by Kevin MacLeod 

Transcript

Stephanie: 0:01

Welcome to, As I Live and Grieve, a podcast that tells the truth about how hard this is. We're glad you joined us today. We know how hard it is to lose someone you love and how well-intentioned friends and family try so hard to comfort us. We created this podcast to provide you with comfort, knowledge and support. We are grief advocates, not professionals, not licensed therapists. We are you.

Kathy: 0:26

Hi everyone, welcome back again to another episode of As I Live and Grieve. Yes, it's Kathy and yes, my voice is still gravelly. You know, this upstate New York weather just isn't conducive to entering spring without some type of upper respiratory infection. So bear with me and it will all work out very, very well. My guest today I love, of course. You know I love the arts. I love all of it. I love music, I love artistic art, I love writing. It's just really where I can dig in and allow my emotions to just kind of spring-free and exhibit themselves and respond to various things. With me today is a true artist and as you go through, listen for her website. You will love her art. The colors are bold, beautiful. I want a t-shirt. She's not for those yet, but we'll talk about that. With me today is Sonya Paz. Hi, Sonya, thanks so much for joining me today.

Sonya: 1:30

Hi Kathy, thank you so much for having me. I'm truly honored and I truly appreciate this.

Kathy: 1:34

I'm just so, so happy that our paths crossed. And speaking of paths crossing, how about if you start out by telling our listeners just how we met, how our paths did cross?

Sonya: 1:46

I know I always find these type of greetings and meetings very serendipitous, so I recently launched another podcast in mid-February. The hosting media, Buzzsprout, has a group for users and things like that, so they're able to put together a Facebook group that has people sort of meeting. If anyone here wants to share their story or if anyone here wants a guest host or a guest speaker or to just kind of connect, even if you're in the same type of field, then it gives folks an opportunity to sort of chat. I think you introduced yourself in what you're doing as I live and breathe, and I popped in and looked at, checked out your podcast and I'm like, oh my gosh, I can't believe. I wish I had this years ago when our family encountered loss. So you and I end up connecting and said let's do it. And here we are.

Kathy: 2:42

Absolutely. You know I think it was something like that I was always ready to connect with someone who had a different perspective of grief. Of course I have my own and we also on the podcast say that grief isn't only about those we lose through death. It can be loss of a relationship, of a marriage, it can be loss of a lifestyle, loss of a job. For goodness sakes, even toddlers grieve when their favorite stuffed animal gets left behind in a restaurant. They grieve, everybody grieves. We just don't acknowledge it. Even for decades, and probably generations, we haven't really acknowledged that we do grieve, that it's part of our lives. Now, certainly, most of what we deal with on the podcast is the loss of a loved one by death, because that truly is the most traumatic grief experience. So I said different perspectives on grief and you jumped right in and mentioned your artwork, which, again, I love. So let's go right to that. Can you give us a little background now on your grief experience and how your art has played into that?

Sonya: 3:52

Sure, thank you. So back in the late 90s I had gone through a divorce I always call it once upon another life and my ex-husband was diagnosed with cancer and we kind of went through that journey with him. It was to be meaning my two sons at the time my younger son was seven and my older son was 12. So it was a pretty hard time and so it was a journey that we went through together. Unfortunately, and sadly, he passed away in September of 1999. So we, needless to say, there was.

Sonya: 4:28

I wanted to do the right things for my sons and took one to one grief counselor, took the other to a different grief counselor, because my sons are two entirely different types of personality and they didn't like the grieving counsel at the time. So here I was, coming back home from working a full-time job all day, taking one kid one place, one kid another place, and doing all this running around and just trying to get life back into a normal situation, I mean as normal as it could be. And so here I realized one night and I've always been creative, I've been creative since I was really really little, and so I was exhausted one day. I mean we were about probably two and a half three months into him passing away, and then I realized I wasn't taking care of myself, I wasn't doing any real it's a common issue.

Sonya: 5:21

And I thought, and I have my art supplies and they had been tucked away in a box in the closet and I dragged that out and I thought I'm just going to start kind of painting away this angst or this sadness. So I started painting and everything was kind of dark and moody and broody and I thought, you know, this isn't really the look, this isn't the feeling that I need to express. So I tossed all that out and I ended up getting some canvases and more supplies and I was at the art store picking every single bright color off of the shelf there, I don't know, $250 later something like that with tubes and tubes as oranges and reds and greens and yellows and the whole kitten caboodle and different brushes and like.

Sonya: 6:07

Well, I haven't used this before and I thought let me just really kind of express. So, my two loves of art. The Picasso cubism style. You know where the woman's face is looking this way, but just kind of looking this way, maybe you're looking the other way. And American pop art? You know, Lichtenstein, Herring, Warhol, that kind of genre.

Sonya: 6:26

So I started playing around and started kind of combining the two styles together, which ended up being what I call now a cubistic infused pop art. Oh, I like it, and so it was kind of very and it's funny, all of my older, older works are really vastly different from now, but I was just reintroducing myself back into painting and drawing. So, with that said, I started creating my own therapy through art and I felt like I couldn't see myself after being with the kids for doing their grieving and everything and waiting and waiting rooms and things like that, I thought I couldn't wait to get home for my job, get them fed, bathed and in bed. So then I had time to create.

Sonya: 7:12

So that was really nice and I called it painting away my sadness, or painting into a whole new style of happiness.

Kathy: 7:21

Yeah, nice. Was there a particular item that you painted, or was it just design or geometric?

Sonya: 7:29

It was kind of a combination of those, all of those together. There was a geometric and crazy things big faces with martini glass bodies and strange that this was kind of at the height of the whole Sex in the City.

Kathy: 7:43

Yeah, they also..

Sonya: 7:44

Well, that actually followed shortly thereafter, but you know just big geometric cities and buildings and faces, kind of embedded into that all.

Kathy: 7:53

Yeah, and what's it did to doing the art, the painting? Do you think it was the distraction of focusing on something other than your grief that was helpful, or do you think just having whatever emotions within you come out onto the canvas which do you think was more effective?

Sonya: 8:12

Both, actually, because it is a distraction and you're thinking about things as your painting and a lot of that could resonate into Into the artwork and, being that it's more abstract, kind of allows that freedom to do that right, and then also just kind of embracing all of the colors and Just kind of taking, you know, going through a divorce, you end up having some unanswered questions. Well, a divorce and then, of course, passing away, there's a lot of unanswered questions and things. So I kind of struggled with that is well, why was this this way and why didn't I ask questions or why did we really have closure? So that really helped with all of these different things. Yeah, there was closure. I will say okay.

Sonya: 8:59

And then my kids started seeing you know, mom, you know you're doing all this painting and what are you gonna do with these paintings? And I said, well, right now, it's just for me, it's for me to feel, allow myself to feel and grieve my older son at the time he was 12 and he had just started playing guitar at school, so he didn't like grief counseling at all. He, I'm not gonna. After a couple months, I'm not gonna go.

Sonya: 9:26

I don't like it. Where's my younger son? Couldn't wait for those appointments, just couldn't wait to express. He's very, he's very expressive. So my older son, andrew, he was playing the guitar and really, really I think that was his therapy, is to sure pick that up. And he's In his late 30s now and he's you had your art, he got his music. Yeah, so it was. I think that's what he felt was a really good therapy for him as well.

Kathy: 9:55

Do the colors have meanings for you?

Sonya: 9:58

They do. I mean, I love all of the colors. I have my own special palette that I've created a certain shade of blue or certain composition of Pigments that make a certain blue. I mix my own green, I mix my own deep reds, okay, and and I've done different versions, like one more of cool colors, which are your blues and greens, and Then there's your warmer colors, your oranges, your reds, your yellows, and sometimes I'm mostly in sort of a collection of all Cools and heats and hot and colds and whatever. But I also Love to just make the colors really contrast. So I did everything my art teachers told me never to do.

Kathy: 10:39

A true artist. You are then, yes.

Sonya: 10:42

Yeah, and I think when I was painting away my sadness or painting into happiness or whatever, that really seemed to Release me was, well, this is not, this is what they told me not to do. And then I thought, why am I even going down that path? This is, this is my journey and I want to do it my way. I don't care if the masters never did that. I mean, who did they listen to and compare themselves to? I'm sure that they Broke some rules in the process. So so that was that was a lot of. That was really. It released a lot of that Freedom, it just a lot. It kind of floodgates open. And then, all of a sudden, I had all of these paintings, these crazy weird paintings and now, what do you do with them?

Kathy: 11:23

Right?

Sonya: 11:24

Yeah, sell them. I did. Actually it was funny is because eBay at the time was relatively new company and I was selling my art. I was selling things out of the house. You know you'd go to garage sales back before. American Pickers was a big thing. Yeah, you go and you pick up things and just for fun, it was kind of fun to watch a week-long auction go from some Salt and pepper shakers you bought at a garage sale for 50 cents to being sold for $39 on eBay. Yeah, so it was more of the Russian the fun to do all that. But then I thought I ended up joining an art group that was started from a gentleman by the name of John Seed out of Southern California. He started this eBay online artist group with special keywords that you would use so that you can sell your art on eBay, and I thought, oh, what if anyone would want to buy all this stuff? Yeah, so I started listing and that's how I got my following from people from all over.

Sonya: 12:25

The United States and beyond was through eBay, interesting so that you know when you're selling things like that. It kind of makes you want to create more.

Kathy: 12:35

Well, yeah, it really validates what you've done, something that you did just for yourself, for a very personal reason, and all of a sudden, others like it too. That must have been an incredible feeling.

Sonya: 12:47

Yeah, it was. It was pretty interesting. And then 2002 I was working at Adobe systems as a web technologist and I always had to try to keep real creative jobs. So I worked at Adobe. It was a QA engineer on Photoshop for ended up being a producer on Adobe comm and then Worked through different groups and then ended up in information systems as a web technologist. But in 2002 they disbanded our group because it was IS and it wasn't a money, big, money-making part of the. You know they had scaled back a percentage of the whole workforce throughout.

Kathy: 13:22

Adobe.

Sonya: 13:23

And I was selling art on eBay and I thought, well, gosh, if I can sell, if I can double what I was doing part-time, then that would be pretty cool. I can, I can do that. And so, yeah, that was April of 2002. And here we are, 22 plus whatever years later, I'm still slinging paint for a living.

Sonya: 13:41

Oh it's, and loving it, I hope, and loving it, and that's a crazy times and the art took off and we ended up, I mean, with a gallery, at art products and things. But it's great. But I mean it, a day doesn't go by where I don't reflect back on sure, on how it all sort of started. And you know, there's a lot of sadness of what had happened with my ex-husband and the journey of Processing the grief. But there was also this flip side that allowed me to sort of not Focus on the sadness after a while and I mean that that's all right, I'm gonna sound no, I know, I know what you mean.

Kathy: 14:18

I know what you mean because you needed to do it to heal. You know to stay in that sadness forever would have been counterproductive for you as a person.

Sonya: 14:28

Oh, absolutely, yeah, Absolutely, and one of the things with why I was on the Facebook page where I had met you is that I? Recently started a podcast it's a true crime podcast about my friend who was murdered when I was a young girl.

Kathy: 14:46

Oh, my goodness.

Sonya: 14:47

And this has been a process that I've been wanting to do for years and investigate sort of the whole story and tell the story and this is a whole grieving process for me because I never really was able to grieve through her, her sister and her mother who were killed at the hands of the family, the father.

Kathy: 15:05

It's really interesting.

Sonya: 15:06

So and I feel like I have her name was Mary Ann, and I feel like she's on my shoulder when I've been discouraged or thinking, gosh, I'm really, I came to a dead end or I haven't found what I'm looking for. I feel that she's right here telling me Sonya, it's okay, take a breather, just keep telling the story.

Kathy: 15:27

You know, I can almost picture her sitting there as your painting, saying go on, keep painting, you'll work through it. Eventually you'll get to it. Keep painting, keep painting, yeah yeah, oh, that's really so cool. How interesting. And you just started this podcast.

Sonya: 15:41

Yes, I launched on February 15th, so, oh, a month ago today. Wow, and ironically ironically, it just dawned on me just now is March 15,. 1974 is when they actually found the bodies under the house to where they were buried. Oh my gosh, so gosh. Yeah, that was 55 years ago today. Wow, so interesting.

Kathy: 16:07

Wow, there's another serendipitous signal.

Kelly: 16:10

I know.

Kathy: 16:11

My older daughter, Stephanie, Kelly's sister loves true crime podcasts, so I'll have to make sure what's the name of this podcast.

Sonya: 16:19

Oh, it's called Investigated, okay, and it's kind of like fine artists turned investigative researcher and I like it.

Kathy: 16:28

I'm not a criminologist but a chrono investigative researcher's end, putting in the chronicles of the timeline All right Now you just need to combine it with your art and do like a mini print from each episode or once a month or something about the progress. So did you have a whole story?

Sonya: 16:46

I know it's crazy.

Kathy: 16:47

Make it a series that people have to buy.

Sonya: 16:50

Yes.

Kathy: 16:50

Yes, oh, wow, talk about creative.

Sonya: 16:54

I know, but it's, it's a. You know, grief is is tough. I have friends who have for decades not grieved fully of family members or a pet or a good friend or whatever, and I tried to tell them take up something. If you know, if you're not creative obviously not everyone is but find a love of something that will help you get through it. And there was another case that was in our town that I had asked the family. It's a whole separate case.

Sonya: 17:27

I asked the family if they would mind if I could tell the story of the daughter and they gracefully declined because they said, if they, if anyone wants to tell the story, they will. They would like to be the ones and I truly respect that. And on their request, my only feedback was to help you get through it. Maybe tell the story, release it, cause I feel that could. That's just a. It's a lot of pent up emotion that a lot of people try to push away, thinking it'll go away. But if you're able to tell it, then that really it helps. It helps, you know what tell the story of the victims who didn't have their way, they didn't have their time to say.

Kathy: 18:07

Well, that's very true. And also, if you don't tell it, if you never speak of it, it stays trapped within you, kind of closeted in there with no escape. If you talk about it, the more you talk about it even, the more you just mention their names it helps draw it out of you and, I believe, really starts the healing process of getting it out of you. So I think there's a lot of merit to that as well. You spoke about not everybody's creative. I think everybody has a creative bone. Sometimes we're our worst critics. So do you feel that using your artistic expression helped you with your grief and you were in fact dealing with double grief? You were grieving your divorce, the loss of your marriage, relationship, lifestyle, and also Well, maybe triple even because you were grieving for what you were concerned about your sons having lost as well. Absolutely.

Kathy: 19:06

Yes, and then you were grieving the death, so you had lots of grief that you were working through. At the same time, do you feel that your art helped you?

Sonya: 19:15

Oh, absolutely Absolutely, and it became a voice and kind of a thing and being able to get the artwork out there, as well as my feelings. But it also made me really think about the divorce and what. You know, everyone's going to say that they tried this and they tried that and you know I'm not going to blame or anything like that. But it was certainly when you take yourself out of the equation and do something different, you know, even if you're golfing or whatever to get away from or to try to get your mind on other things, it really helps with.

Sonya: 19:50

Yeah, it's just it's therapy and one of my other things that I did. I mean, I'm, I have a lot of things going on. I'm, I'm that annoying little kid in school that was always running around that the teachers would always complain to my mom why doesn't Sonia sit still? I'm this is decades later. I still can't sit still. So in 2015, I started another company, kind of an extension of my art, called Vino Paint. It's a sip and paint company.

Sonya: 20:17

Yeah, so I have found I mean I did that thinking well, I just I had a gallery. I closed that, or actually went. I closed it and moved back to appointment studio appointment only in 2015. So in 2015, I thought, you know, I should probably get out there again and just be more present, but I don't want to have a gallery anymore. So I started Vino Paint and that allowed me to teach others how to create. So what's interesting, kathy, is that I have these folks who come in they say my friend dragged me here. I have no creative bone in my body, I can't even draw a stick figure, and I say it's okay, because we're not drawn stick figures today and it it's a step by step creation.

Sonya: 21:00

And the gratitude that I have of the gratitude from others is that here's this person who came in completely intimidated and left with a piece of artwork that they are excited that they did. And they take me by the arm and they say I didn't know I could do this, and then it starts a creative journey with them and I mean I'll share with you. One quick thing is I have a woman her name is Deborah, lovely, lovely lady, and she had a back injury and she has.

Sonya: 21:30

She's in a scooter, so she comes to the events and she came because she wasn't getting enough mobility from this accident she had in one of her hands and she said I have followed what you've taught me and in a period of six months I went from limited movement to this much movement she's showing me, and she's showing me how her paint strokes are much more consistent, and things like that. And I gave her a big hug. I said that is like the best news I could hear, Because that's a sense of grief. Is losing mobility or losing who you were. And then this accident occurred and then you kind of have to start over.

Kathy: 22:10

And what a creative way for her to heal, instead of going to physical therapy, which maybe she tried, and it really did nothing. This was something that I don't. Only was it helping her, but she was enjoying it. Besides, it wasn't a medical treatment.

Sonya: 22:24

And you're able to have wine.

Kathy: 22:26

Absolutely and be with.

Sonya: 22:30

Oh yeah, that's why it's called Vino paint. Yeah, yeah, but she had. There's the way I conduct the and it's we'll do it in a wine bar or a restaurant or something, and so everyone has maybe 20 plus people there. Sometimes we have eight people and that's good too, yeah, and I'm encouraging, and I am not when I don't want to be the art teacher that hindered my creativity. So, and I'll say, well, here, if you hold the brush this way or that way, and these things help, and then there's just a whole group of people that really helped cheer you on.

Kathy: 23:01

Yeah, kind of like karaoke. Yeah, I've done those and that they're a lot of fun and I've enjoyed them because they almost take it one brush stroke at a time so it's easy to follow it. You know, they show you something and then you just kind of recreate that on your canvas and it does give you this huge sense of accomplishment that you do have some creativity in you.

Sonya: 23:23

Yes, and that's what I tell them. It's here, see, I knew, I knew that you were going to rock this thing, sure.

Kathy: 23:29

Yeah, yeah, no, there's. Those are a lot of fun. I've been to some that offer wine and then to others that don't, and they're both fun. They're both fun, but it's nice to come out of there, as you say, with a canvas. Something you've done, like that, it's huge, it makes you feel very good.

Kelly: 23:46

Now.

Kathy: 23:47

I've been to your website and I have fallen in love with your art. I think it's a combination of the pop art component of it and also the colors, because they're so vivid, and maybe part of it's because you do blend your own tins, your own tones. Yeah, at any rate, I find, first of all, your art is extremely affordable. Extremely affordable, I would almost say underpriced in some. I really would. Now, I'm not a huge art connoisseur, but many of the items I saw I thought, oh really, that's all it is. So, at any rate, I'm going to encourage people at some point to go check it out. But I noticed in your artwork you have painted a lot of hearts, so I'm assuming hearts have a special meaning for you.

Sonya: 24:37

They do. I mean, yeah, I love it's funny. The hearts the newest hearts I've been doing in this last couple of years have it's just me reinventing and having a good time. I also paint things with stars I'll tell you something about that too and a lot of wine paintings and a lot of kind of crazy things, and that's been able to allow me to express a lot of personal things by hidden crazy objects and funny stories. But the hearts, yeah, they're multifaceted. A lot of the new stuff has incorporated lots of collage and stenciling, which I never wanted to do 20 years ago. Yeah, so the hearts are. It's just everybody has one and so and everyone feels differently, and it makes me feel like there's something for everybody.

Kathy: 25:27

Yeah, Well, there is something for everybody. I think it's incredible how you were able to I won't say use your grief, how you were able, in your grief, to express yourself through your art and find something that allowed you to bring your grief outside of your body, outside of your mind, outside of your heart, and put it on canvas and, through that process, to again kind of redefine yourself and your entire life. Because you were working those nine to five type jobs, you weren't imagining your art supporting you at some point or you living that artist's life. Yet here you are and your grief was a path. It was your grief journey that brought you to this point. I think that's incredible.

Sonya: 26:19

Thank you, you're sweet.

Kathy: 26:21

I am just so glad we have connected. I just I love all my guests, but there are certain guests and you are certainly one of those now that immediately become very special that I feel a very special connection to, so I'm just very, very happy about it. Unfortunately, though, our time is winding down, so this is the point in the podcast where I turn the microphone over to my guests and I'm turning it over to you. Time is not a concern, so take as much time as you want, but this is your chance to speak directly to our listeners, and they are an international group of listeners, so speak directly to our listeners, without me popping in with questions or trying to direct the conversation. The four shores.

Sonya: 27:05

No worries, thank you so much. Well, I do have. I just was going to ask you really quick, and when you created, when you went to one of the painting classes, how did you feel in that process?

Kathy: 27:16

Well, first, when I went in, I have to say that I had brought with me in the trunk of my car a trash bag so that when I left I could put the canvas in there and throw it in a dumpster on my way home. That was my mindset when I went in, but when I came out, I felt much different, much different.

Sonya: 27:36

Have you continued that creative journey at all?

Kathy: 27:39

No Time. Just you know, time isn't on my side lately to do that. I think the last one I did was probably about maybe five years ago, and that one was a little bit different because the person leading this had actually penciled in the design, so it was almost a paint by color.

Sonya: 27:57

Right.

Kathy: 27:58

And it wasn't as much fun. No, I didn't feel that I had expressed myself at all.

Sonya: 28:03

Right, yeah, I've seen that too.

Kathy: 28:05

But they're more fun when you go with somebody or with a group. They're more fun Absolutely.

Sonya: 28:10

Oh heck. Yeah, you know. Yeah, I've seen. I find I have a headset that I wear, because sometimes people get a little too crazy. It gets really loud and everyone's having a good time, so I have to talk over them.

Kathy: 28:23

Yeah, oh, my All right. Well, the floor is yours.

Sonya: 28:27

Thank you, Kathy, so much. I appreciate that and thanks again for having me. So my website is sonyapaz. com, and that is my art site where I have all of my painting not all of them, but most of the affordable ones online. And then I have prints, and we have watches and, oh my goodness, a whole slew of different types of products based off of my work, and that keeps me busy. And then I have Vino Paint, where I also offer virtual classes.

Sonya: 28:56

I don't have any on there right now, but I will because of because my other podcast has been taken up so much of my time. And then the new podcast for those listeners of yours who might like true crime. It's called Investigated and it's on Apple iTunes and all of that good stuff and our website is investigatedpodcom. And last but not least, I have another podcast for anyone who is grieving, who wants to take a creative journey. I have Rockstar Mentor podcast, and that one is I give. I have over 130 episodes right now of free art advice, so you can get yourself out there and it's all good, it's all good stuff.

Sonya: 29:37

Everything kind of stays in the creative.

Kathy: 29:39

Yeah, but you've got something going in all different directions. I do the same thing, I think, yeah. Well, kelly, you've been quiet, absorbing everything. Do you have any questions?

Kelly: 29:48

I don't think I have a question per se. I just want to say that I am. I admire you, Sonia, for the journey that you took, and I think it's very inspiring for other people to see that you know there's something about seeing beauty or hope on the other side, so to speak, and that gives you the strength to continue the journey instead of giving up and saying well, this is just where I meant to be. So I admire you and I thank you for sharing that story with us today. I think it's really powerful.

Sonya: 30:17

Awesome. Thank you so much. Well said Good words and I just wanted to mention too, is that life is. It didn't end with my grief. It didn't end with my ex-husband passing away it. You know other family members my father had passed away.

Sonya: 30:32

I have aunts that have passed my mom two years ago, our dog three years ago and it's a continuous. It is. It's part of life and it's. They are tough roads to get through but thankfully you know there's people can connect and communicate with others who have been through that. And of course your podcast is genius that you know that everybody has something. There's a story for everyone that someone can resonate with that. Your may or may not get just through. You know therapy or personal counseling.

Kathy: 31:10

Yeah, yeah, we, you know, we want people to know that, gosh, everybody has a different story and there may be something in yours that resonates with someone. Maybe someone remembers how, as a child in school, they loved their art, and maybe they'll just grab a blank piece of paper and start to doodle. Doodling is art. Oh yeah, it really is. I mean, doodling is art. I admire people that do these beautiful doodles, see, yeah, I can't see it.

Kathy: 31:40

But Sony just held up her notebook and I would love to be able to doodle, but I think I just, I restrict myself, I just I can't do it free. I can't just let my hand go free. However, there's a free form of journaling and writing where it's stream of consciousness writing. I can do that non-stop for an hour. It makes no sense and I probably can't read it after the hour, but I can do it. But there are many ways out there, many opportunities to express yourself. You can go to the beach, you can go to the forest, you can go sit beside a creek or at a picnic table in a park and talk to no one, talk to the air, talk to Mother Nature, talk to the grass and get those words out of you. It's all a form of artistic expression and, no surprise here, it's a form of self-care, because if you keep everything bottled up, it's going to continue to eat at you inside, it's going to impact your sleep, it's going to impact your day, it's going to impact your health. So do whatever you can find, whatever way you can to just get it out of you. Go outside where no one's around and scream if you want to Just get that emotion out of you. It's a form of self-care. On that note, it's time to sign off. This has been a delight.

Kathy: 33:10

As I mentioned, Sonya's information will be on the podcast notes. It'll be on our website. I encourage you to go look at her art and her website. She has a free gift on there if you want to just go sign up for it. Up to you. I love free things, but go look at her art and think about as you got to her website and then, after you look at some of her art, think about what's going on in your mind. How is it making you feel? Those colors, I swear, are positive forms of expression. They will make you smile. It's worth a trip. It truly is. Sonya, I am enthralled with you. I will be watching for those virtual classes and, who knows, you may see me pop into one. You just may. It sounds like a lot of fun and, as well, you never know, there may be another opportunity for you to come back and be a guest again.

Sonya: 34:07

That would be awesome. Thank you for being here.

Kathy: 34:10

Thank you no you're fine, You're fine. And to our listeners please come back again and join us as we all continue to live in grief.

Stephanie: 34:22

Thank you so much for listening with us today. Do you have a topic that you'd like us to cover or do you have a question from one of our episodes? Please email us at info@ asiliveandgrieve. com and let us know. We hope you will find a moment to leave a review, send an email and share with others. Join us next time as we all continue to live and grieve.