Frank and Stan Chat No. 223: the Aelwyn Pugh Returns Again Edition Artwork

Frank and Stan Chats

Frank Norris and Stan Johnson have been friends since 1995. Both have had successful and lengthy careers in education. Frank was a very senior HMI with Ofsted for 11 years and was the CEO of the Coop Academies Trust for 6 years. Stan was seconded to Ofsted for a year and then returned to headship before working as a senior adviser with Lancashire LA. He has latterly led a successful education consultancy in the North West.Prior to Covid-19 the two gents would meet in Manchester for a pint or two but the pandemic put an end to that. On 1 May 2020, they recorded their first video chat as a way of recording their emotions and reactions to the pandemic. After putting the video on Youtube as a safe place to store it they realised that some followers began to appear. Now, with over 110 episodes and having chatted to Professors, CEOs, journalists, teachers, former HMI, education thinkers and Frank's Key Stage 1 leading daughter they have a loyal following and a rapidly increasing number of viewers. The reach of the Frank and Stan Chat stretches from Bogota to Ottawa to Greece and their first Live Edition was recorded in front of nearly 200 Headteachers in York in spring 2022.The Chats are not undertaken to attract followers or for financial reward (nothing is received and nothing will be received). It is a way of airing views on education matters between two professional friends. The chats have helped them get through the pandemic and they are delighted that they have been enjoyed by others and appear to have helped others through it as well.If you fancy being a guest then just reach out. We never post a video unless the guest is comfortable with it. So, it is a relatively risk free environment.Thank you. Frank and Stan

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Frank and Stan Chats

Frank and Stan Chat No. 223: the Aelwyn Pugh Returns Again Edition

May 12, 2025 • Frank Norris and Stan Johnson • Season 7 • Episode 1

Every now and again Frank and Stan give full rein to our guest, especially if they want to share some insight that is challenging or even provocative. This is what happened when Aelwyn Pugh, a former highly experienced HMI joined us again for our weekly chat. Aelwyn had prepared a carefully considered his thoughts on the issue of social mobility and how it had enabled him to progress. He also reflected on the type of education he received and how it enabled him to challenge orthodoxy and helped him to better understand the world. He considers how Germany undertook a deeper soul-searching of their past and how this has ensured they view the world in a more rounded way. Throughout the chat Aelwyn is mindful of the vital role education plays in guiding and supporting young people. He is highly critical of some who view this important role as purely an examination machine. For him, education is so much more. It is a highly thoughtful chat with Aelwyn offering a compelling view of past education mistakes and how things can be improved.