The costs of tax complexity in a tech world

What happens when a rapidly evolving tech-driven world collides with the dense world of tax regulation?

In this episode of TaxVibe, The Tax Institute’s John Storey sits down with Simeon Duncan, Head of Corporate Affairs and Public Policy at Intuit, to unpack The Costs of Tax Complexity in a Tech World.

If you’ve been wondering how digital transformation, the "Uberisation" of tax, and emerging AI tools are reshaping everyday practice, this conversation cuts through the noise.

What you'll learn:
• AI vs. human judgement: Why cutting-edge tech enhances – rather than replaces – the trust and confidence behind expert tax advice.
• Smart Regulation: How policymakers can foster tech innovation without burdening practitioners and taxpayers with overly complex rules.
• Practical Tech Adoption: Why small businesses should start small with AI integration and scale up gradually.
• The Future of Practice: How flexible, outcome-focused policy can help small businesses stay competitive in an automated world.

For more information about The Tax Institute: https://www.taxinstitute.com.au/

Transcript

John Storey: 0:09

Hello and welcome to TaxVibe, a podcast by The Tax Institute where we peel back the layers of the Australian tax world. I'm John Storey, tax counsel at the Tax Institute, and host for today's episode. Today I'm joined by Simeon Duncan, head of corporate affairs and public policy at Intuit. Today we'll be talking about policy in techs and tax. What are the crossovers, and how do we create policy for emerging tech in the tax space? Simeon, welcome to the show.

Simeon Duncan: 0:41

Look, thanks for having me, John. Pleasure to be here.

John Storey: 0:44

That's great. So we're going to be talking about some technology and policy crossovers and how it influences the world of tax. But to get us started, can you explain a little bit about what you do at Intuit and how you got into this interesting space?

Simeon Duncan: 1:00

Yes, certainly. So I take the voice of our customers to policymakers. At Intuit, we serve over 100 million customers around the world, and we want to power their prosperity, whether it's through the tools we provide or through the regulatory environment that they operate in. Before Intuit, I spent nearly 20 years in politics and public affairs. I can tell you, it wasn't always the plan. I fell into politics while working in small business in Tasmania, but I had a bit of a an aha moment, a bit of an awakening. I kept watching very smart people write rules for businesses, and the rules were built for businesses that, in my view, didn't really exist. These owners that have no tech team, no compliance manager and no spare time, but a lot of our business rules assume time and resources that they just don't have. Rules were being written for the wrong businesses, and so that's who I turn up for.

John Storey: 1:52

Yeah, it's a common saying we we make here at The Tax Institute that our tax system was designed for an economy 100 years ago, not the economy we we have today. I mean, technology is is such a an interesting field at the moment with the rise of artificial intelligence. That's bringing rise to all sorts of concerns, opportunities, government reactions. It's influencing everything we do. But what

Simeon Duncan: 2:18

Look, I think the influence that technology is influence is technology having in the world of tax policy? Do having in the tax world is that as on one hand things are seeming to get more complex, the the tax rules keep growing. you think? There's one more form to complete, another document to authorize. So on one hand, while things are getting more complex, I think software is also making things simpler because it's the tech and the software that is is doing the heavy lifting. If you

John Storey: 2:44

behind my computer. think back, you know, tax used to be the the once a year job that certainly I, when I was running my own business, dreaded. But now tax is happening in the background. At the end of the year, my payroll has already been talking to the ATO, and I log in, and that's pre-filled. So a lot of that admin tech is able to help make or push it into the background.

I might invent a new word here: 3:10

the uberisation of of tax. You know, when you think back 10, 15, years ago, about when we'd pay for a taxi, we'd we'd get to the end of a ride and we fumble around for cash. Do we have enough? Now we just step out of the car and the job's done. And I think tax and tech is heading the same way. Have a look at the recent example with Payday Super. You know that's now paid every pay run. It used to be every few months. Now with the right software, that is just happening. Data is flowing between systems. There's less retyping, fewer mistakes. So I think that's the good news. But I also think that that raises the stakes. Certainly, I know when something's visible, I tend to trust it more. So I think we've got to get the design right, both on the tech side, but also on the regulatory side. What can we do to simplify tax regulations? And then, as a tech provider, how do we present that clearly to our customers so that they can get more time back and that they have full confidence when they're using tech for their tax?

Simeon Duncan: 13:12

Yeah, look. Sort of like the exciting thing is, as you say, a lot of larger firms are insisting on AI adoption. A lot of smaller firms who we work with, predominantly smaller, mid-sized firms are adopting AI. Certainly, for Intuit, we bake in AI into our product. So whether it's accounting, such as QuickBooks Online, that does those things I mentioned earlier, that able to sort of pre-fill surface insights that the business owner or the accountant knows that are you know there must be some data there, and they can surface that insight. The auto categorization of transactions so that people get the jobs done faster, that they can go through and go yes, that's what that transaction was for, and so forth. But also we apply it in Mailchimp as well, our other product, which is the marketing automation platform, and helping, as I said, getting people to the the job done faster. And with Mailchimp, it's helping them write the marketing communications. And then one of the challenges that a lot of businesses have is that they have multiple systems that are all using AI independently of each other, and so you know they're using a chatbot for one thing. They're using AI within their accounting platform and another, and they're getting kind of fatigued and a bit frustrated because these systems aren't communicating with each other. And so that's why we think it's important to make sure that you know your accounting system also talks to your CRM, so that as you're making sales and as you identify things that hey I'm making great margin on this, let's push this some more to that particular segment of my customer that they can do that without having to be a marketing expert. A lot of our customers are so busy working in their business. We want to free up the time so that they can actually grow their business with our products as well, and you know we see the opportunity is when that AI kind of you know works together with their other business systems.

John Storey: 15:11

There are of course concerns with AI in my field of law. There's been some judges and and legal rules that have been quite scathing about lawyers that have been caught, for want of a better word, clearly using AI that has had a hallucination and presented a false argument. What is government doing about those concerns? Are we seeing new legislation in this space, and what do we need to be aware of on the legislative side and the government side when it comes to regulating AI or this other more digitally online world.

Simeon Duncan: 15:47

Yeah, so the federal government is taking, I think, a fairly pragmatic approach. And one thing I will say, having spent 20 years in government and as an advisor, is oftentimes the first reaction of regulators is to regulate. You know, that's the job they're paid for, and so when any new technology comes along, there's always, you know, hey, do we need to regulate this? And we risk kind of almost a knee-jerk reaction in over-regulating the risk, and in over-regulating, we also regulate out the promise of it as well. So credit to this government; they've taken a fairly pragmatic approach in doing a what regular businesses would do a gap analysis. You know what regulation do we already have in place that already regulates how loans are determined. We already have fairly robust regulations across the economy that deal with how we manage folks' privacy and things like that. And so they've undertaken a gap analysis. Where are the parts of the economy that do need updating? And Privacy Act is is one of them. The Prime Minister announced last week an office on AI. They're looking to release a framework before 2027. In the tax and accounting space, the Tax Practitioners Board released some draft guidance just last week again on the use of AI by tax practitioners, and I agree with the direction that that is sent. That basically, to probably drill it down to simplify too much, that you know AI is is great for helping come to advice and judgment quicker, but it shouldn't be relied on. Should always be the human in the loop. It's the human that puts their signature to it and says this is true and accurate. And so, I think both government and government agencies are heading in in the right direction on looking to regulate the harm that AI could potentially bring without regulating the progress and the promise that AI can also bring. I think about it again, being a simple guy. I think about it a bit like seatbelts. They didn't actually slow cars down. Seatbelts actually let us drive faster and safer. And I think good regulation on technology helps us do what we need to do safer and hopefully faster.

John Storey: 18:05

One of the things that The Tax Institute talks to government about when it comes to regulation, not just in the tech space but more broadly, is that so often the rules that come in are targeted at larger businesses because that might be where the risks are perceived to be, and also they tend to have the capabilities of actually complying with whatever the new regulation is, and it can be a real challenge for smaller businesses to have to to deal with these things. When it comes to smaller businesses, a lot are probably thinking they might be listening to this, going, gee, I could use technology better. That sounds really interesting. I'm wasting time doing this, but they're a bit overwhelmed as to where to start. How does a small business, whether it's in the accounting or tax space or more

Simeon Duncan: 18:52

Look, I'll be completely honest with you. broadly, where do they start to start incorporating these things into their business operations? Start small. No one gets fit by running a marathon on day one. You start by walking around the block. During COVID, I decided to do the couch to 5ks. Now, when I first started, I could barely puff out 100 metres. But by starting small, eventually I got to the 5ks. The same with technology adoption. Start small. Find that one job that you just hate and fix that first. Don't try to change everything at once. As I said earlier, choose tools that work together. Make sure that your invoicing talks to your CRM, and then treat that one small task as a new hobby, and once that's bedded down, you've gotten rid of that thing that you've been procrastinating and putting off, and you've given AI that job. Once you're confident and settled with that, then pick the next task, one job after the other, rather than you know, hey, I need to bring in AI and adopt it across the board. Businesses that do well aren't trying to transform their entire business overnight. They just quietly stop doing that boring task that they hated. Technology is the means. You know, software can take that compliance task off you and free up that time and give you more either time Friday night or increased productivity.

John Storey: 20:20

Yeah, it's great advice. Start small. I like that the running analogy. As a policy person yourself, you're probably expected from time to time to have a crystal ball and try to foresee the future, whether it's trying to predict how governments will react to things, or in your space where technology might be leading. Where to from here with technology? Fast forward as as far as you like, but where is this all going? And of course, what impact will it have on tax and the tax profession?

Simeon Duncan: 20:52

Look, great question. I wish I had a crystal ball. In fact, I wish I knew back in 2020 what I knew now. Like I remember sitting out in my deck, and I'd heard about ChatGPT and had downloaded that and was experimenting with it. Never really thinking of how AI might become such an integral part of my day-to-day life. I was using AI every day with Google Maps and other things, but actually had no comprehension for how it could help me do my job better. So I think one thing I've learned is that technology is moving at a pace that I struggle to keep up with. Need to have a full-time job just to try and track all the changes. So with that in mind, I would say to policymakers and regulators to not try and predict the technology, they'll lose by the time they've got the grasp of what the technology does and is able to do, and then by the time they've consulted and regulated it, the tech has moved on, and so they're writing rules for tech that was a few years ago. So first, I'd say aim at the results. What is the outcome that we are trying to achieve? Is it more accurate activity statements? How we get that more accurate? Let's not regulate that part. Let's just make sure that the accuracy is improved. You know, improving it is good for the ATO. It's good for the business as well. Also, when it comes to making rules, build rules with the people who use them in mind, not just making rules for them. So I've sat in roundtables where another form has been suggested to help provide information to to government. Now to government, it's just one more form, but to the small business operator running his mechanic shop in Dubbo-that's another form that they don't want to have to worry about, and so they need to find someone to hand that off and do so. Build rules with the people who use them, not just for them. And then the third one I'd say is make sure that you build kind of check-ins that they test, review, fix. Technology is moving at such a pace, and digital adoption in the community is moving at pace as well, at scale as well. So it's important that we make sure that hey, did this piece of regulation achieve the policy outcomes that we wanted it to? If it didn't, what do we need to change? Rather than trying to go hey, there is this new technology. We need to regulate that, regulate the output, not the tool, and that way you're not having to rewrite rules every year.

John Storey: 23:27

Yeah, I think that's a great insight. There's there seems to be some new program, some new gadget, to use your term, that comes along all the time. And yeah, government, I think, by its nature, is a reactive process; it tends to to deal with problems as they emerge, and I think that's just becoming more unsustainable when it comes to technology. You can't be behind the the eight ball. Or to finish, maybe where we started here, where you said you involved in governments creating regulations for businesses that don't exist, there is a danger if you try to play catch up with every new gadget and regulate it. By the time you've regulated it, nobody's using it. So I think that's a really great insight. Are there any final thoughts in this area, Simeon? Before we finish.

Simeon Duncan: 24:16

Look, I guess the only thing I'd come back to is you know when it comes to technology and tax, the big question for me is like, where do I get my confidence from that using AI in chatbots is is great for my general awareness, but when it's got my name on it and I'm I'm submitting it to the ATO as hey, this is true and accurate and reflects my activity for the year, that I want still a human in the loop. I want someone who has the judgment to understand my circumstances, understand the nuances that I have in my business or in my personal life, and that's what gives me confidence. Still, that human review. Now, if they've been able to work on my file a whole. Lot faster because of AI. Fantastic, good for them. That means they can focus on that more high-value advice, or indeed take on more customers. And so, for me, it's it's a confidence question. You know, that's not something that's downloaded overnight. It's something that's turned over years.

John Storey: 25:16

Simeon, I think you've got the balance right in this discussion. I think there's a lot of doom and gloom about technology, about what it means for business, what it means for people and government. But I think you've painted quite a positive picture about the opportunities they offer, with always that caution about being confident in how you're using it and what it's producing. Thanks so much, Simeon, for your time today.

Simeon Duncan: 25:41

Thanks, John. It's been enjoyable.

John Storey: 25:43

If you enjoyed today's discussion, there's more just like it coming up in TaxVibe in 2026. Subscribe, rate, and review TaxVibe wherever you are listening to this to keep up with us. If you're interested in being at the center of the tax conversation, a membership with The Tax Institute is just what you need. Stay current and connected with tangible, real-world benefits. Learn more at taxinstitute.com.au. Thanks again, and we'll see you next time.