Hello everybody and welcome back to WFA's Better Marketing. A great episode ahead today and we're proud to be sponsored by Meta, to whom thanks. But today, absolute privilege to welcome the WFA Global Marketer of the Year. Starting out at Unilever, one of the great schools of marketing, he's traveled through the beer business to now be the global CMO at AB InBev, and it is the fabulous Marcel Macondez. Welcome, welcome, marcel, and congratulations again on winning the Global Marketer of the Year award at WFA. I know AB InBev has won many an award, but where does this sit for you in terms of the awards you've won?
Speaker 2:Very good. Thank you, David. Thanks for having me Big pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1:No, it's a delight to have you and obviously you're a lauded and rewarded marketeer along the way. But what does this one mean for you? Wfa Global Marketer of the Year year. What does that mean for you? What does it mean for your teams? How are you feeling about?
Speaker 2:it, uh, it means a lot, david. Uh, we're very humbled, I'm very honored, uh, for this recognition, and I say we, uh because I speak on behalf of ABI. Uh, no one does anything alone at this scale, so it's always about the teamwork, it's always a team achievement. So I take this as an ABI recognition 100% and as a long-time member of the WFA. It matters a lot and it means a lot to us because we see WFA as the institution that is actually driving marketing forward in its totality, right? So you get some recognitions on creativity, on effectiveness, on digital, so on and so forth. I think what we have here is a conversation about marketing as a whole and the role the marketing plays inside companies and, ultimately, as an engine of growth for organizations. So, for all that, it means a lot and we're very humbled and honored for this recognition. Actually, I should maybe start by toasting to that, okay.
Speaker 1:This is Coca-Cola, I confess, with a dash of rum in it. But here's to you Congratulations, cheers and actually cheers. It's always interesting to get recognition. I love the fact that you said for your team but what is it you think makes you stand out as a marketer? Because what's really interesting about this is it's your peers voting for you as well.
Speaker 2:Well, that's a very good question.
Speaker 2:Well, that's a very good question, I think.
Speaker 2:In our case, at ABI, I really believe that as marketers, we need to work as a real bridge between consumers and the business, and that's the philosophy we bring to the table right, because things are changing fast and we need to keep listening to consumers day in, day out, deeply, and we need to adjust the way we work to fulfill the needs and opportunities that we see out there so that we can add value to consumers based on what we do, and this is how we end up adding value to the business.
Speaker 2:So the way we see our job here in the organization is exactly being this bridge between consumers, customers and the business, so we can add value to customers and consumers and, in the end of the day, this is how we add value to the business. I think in the past, marketers would work more or less to say, ok, this is what we do, now let's go and let's convince consumers about it. I think, given the way the world has been evolving, our job has to change as well. So we need to have a very strong pulse on what's going on with the industries we work with and the consumers out there, and then we need to adjust the way we work in order to serve them better, and that is a key principle that we bring to life every day here in the office, and we believe this makes a big difference in how we operate and the results we deliver.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's really been working, because results are what drives business ahead. And actually you've got the business results, you've got the creative results and you've got this recognition. So what's not to love? But can we take a step back? Because, you know, as we look at the future of marketing, one of the things that people seem concerned about is whether people will want to join marketing. So what made you want to get into marketing in the first place?
Speaker 2:My passion since the beginning was the ability to probably connect three elements. I've always felt very attracted to do something that could have somehow an influence in people's behavior. That's one thing. Second thing is to do that at the same time as you build something. So you drive prosperity by building brands, by building the business and also by having an impact on people's lives, giving the prosperity you share, giving the support you give to communities and something like that.
Speaker 2:So adjusting, having an impact on people's behaviors, building something in parallel and the additional component of creativity, of solving problems in unexpected ways so that people can feel like, ah, this, this can actually convince me to change the way they behave. So I found in marketing a way to connect these three elements in a powerful way, and this is why, since the beginning of my career, I've been not only a marketer but always a very passionate one, because I really love what I do and this is why sorry to your point in the beginning I I like to believe that in the future there will be a lot of people are willing to become marketers and cmos, because I I can only find fascinating what's ahead of us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, listen, I totally agree. And I think that for us marketers, we really must advocate for what we do because it's a wonderful career, the opportunity to connect with consumers, the opportunity to drive businesses ahead and, must be said, the opportunity to have fun too. I don't often hear accountants talk about those things. Maybe they do, but we certainly have fun. Maybe they do, but we certainly have fun. Now, I think, another thing about careers we all have inflection, acceleration points, and I'd be you know what would have been the key ones for you. I mean really interesting, because you've been at this now, for I think you're already ahead of the. You know what all those reports say the average tenure of a CMO is over three years and you had a really powerful career. But what have been the inflection points?
Speaker 2:Inflection points on a career path, I would say the following David, despite of marketing, I have a true belief that there is one milestone that really defines a meaningful change in your career and how far you can go, and this milestone is the transition between following the agenda to driving the agenda. I think this is not something specific to marketing, but it definitely applies to marketing, because some people will be great managers, but one thing is to get things done when somebody asks you to do something. Another thing is to have the vision on how to drive the agenda, is to engage people, to really embrace your vision and to inspire them and to lead them to get things done the right way so that they can follow the agenda. That is, to me, the most important milestone. That is a pivotal moment in people's career, which applies to marketing as well.
Speaker 1:And obviously what you're touching on there is the profound difference between managing and leading, which I think is a real leap. But I read in an interview that you did. You talked a lot about the importance of aligning with the CEO, and you've clearly done that. Can you I hate this word, but it's the right one Can you unpack that for us a bit? Talk about how you've got that alignment, how you work together.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I still think, david, that still today, marketing behaves in different ways inside different companies, or marketing could have different functions, in realistic terms, inside different companies. So having the proper alignment with the CEO on what's the mandate for marketing, what's the expectation, what the success looks like, is everything, because unless the North Star is aligned, it's very hard for us to move together. And what I believe, what we believe here, is that marketing is the key architect of growth in the organization. For the reasons we just spoke, we need to connect, we need to deeply understand customers and consumers, and then we need to translate that knowledge into guidance for the commercial organizations so that the outcome of what we do as a company will match what our customers and consumers really need, so that we can add value to them.
Speaker 2:That is the role of marketing. At the end of the day, it's to drive growth, and this is how we provide all the work and this is how we drive all the agenda. This is a clear conversation that I had with Michel Duquerre, our CEO, since the beginning, when I had the privilege of being invited by him to take over the global CMO role, of being invited by him to take over the global CMO role and we talk constantly like we work closely together, because without his strong and clear support, barely nothing that we're proud of today would have ever happened, and this, I think, is a key thing inside any company for us to be able to have true success.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that aligning around what's the agenda, what are the results and indeed how you're going to measure it and how you're going to know that you're delivering success that's a really key dialogue to have with any boss, and especially with the CEO. So can you touch a little bit on measurement of success and how you talk about that together?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. We have lots of KPIs, as you might imagine, that we track on a daily basis, from consumer sentiment to consumption, behavior to motivations, so on and so forth. But to keep it simple, david, because in the end of the day, our ultimate goal is to drive growth. All of our variable compensation and all the main KPIs inside our company and for me, they're based on what we call sustainable growth creation and then this is composed by three big elements. So it's all about driving revenues and volume growth. So it's about driving growth with profitability and with a stronger brand portfolio, meaning growing in a profitable way while building the future, which is all about the strength of our brands.
Speaker 1:This is fantastic. And touching on brands, I mean I'm interested that you're carrying the weight of Stella Artois literally on your shoulders. One of my way, back when in my advertising career I had the privilege of working on Stella Artois with reassuring expensive, and I think we did. We called the ad frank the floret in honor of frank low, but it was based on john de floret and I've I've followed that brand and the way you've built. I think what you talk about now is you know your mega brands and your mega brand platforms and it's really interesting to attract over time, and I'll be brutal in it you know we used to say and I'm going back to the end of the 80s, you know it was basically a swilling lager in Belgium which we managed to premiumize in the UK and actually you've continued that all around the world. So when you talk about mega brands and mega brand platforms, what do you mean? Because the real growth comes from focusing on those, I guess.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a very good question, david, and this is a very important program for us in terms of portfolio strategy. We are a house of brands, so we have the privilege of owning 500 brands all over the world. 500 brands all over the world but we need to make sure that this privilege will be used the right way to take us to a better place, because there's also the trap of us getting a little bit lost in the middle of so many great assets. So 500 brands, $20 billion brands in our portfolio, 20 billion dollar brands in our portfolio. So Mega Brands is a program that we created exactly to be able to prioritize the brands that will really drive our future, the long term thinking with consistency. So we select, we give specific roles to the different brands we have in our portfolio on a market by market basis, to make sure that we separate the brands that we'll defend, the brands that are still small but we'll seed for the future, and the ones that we call the real mega brands, because they already have enough scale and very healthy growth rates to drive our long-term growth as a company.
Speaker 2:And this is exactly the thinking that allows us to take these jewels that we have like Stellar Toi treat them as mega brands and see how far they can go all over the world to prioritize resources, to prioritize investments and execution, to really extract all the potential that a brand like this can have. This is paying beautiful dividends for us as a company. The more we work with our portfolio strategy like this, the more we can accelerate our performance and also see these brands grow over time. We celebrated recently that we saw on Brand Z that we have eight out of the top 10 most valuable beer brands in the world, having Corona is number one, budweiser is number two, stella is one of the top 10. And a work like this, when you have eight out of the top 10 most valuable brands in the industry you play, you can only achieve that if you have focus and consistency behind these brands. That's what we mean with the mega brands program.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean. I think the other thing you know good to touch on is you've also done that with really powerful creativity, so you know very impressive track record of winning awards, but attached to business results. How do you drive that? And tell us a little bit about your agency partners and how you build the right teams there, because you know, as you know, nothing happens without having great people, and how you get and retain talent internally, externally, how you build long term relationships. It's it's very easy to say but very difficult to do. I mean, how have you been doing that? Because it really is driving impressive work, impressive results, and I think people are really proud to work for you too, which is a magic thing to have happen well, thanks for the question.
Speaker 2:There's so many, so many great things already in your question, uh, and I love to talk about that because whenever we talk about marketing, I think creativity comes together. But this can also be a trap, right, because you can do interesting things, meaning you can do creativity just for the sake of creativity, and this is the wrong path. Like we're a beer company, we're not an entertainment business, right? So, again, we're here to drive growth. So the philosophy we have for creativity is that, yes, we totally believe I completely believe in creativity as a key competitive advantage, if used the right way. Meaning creativity should be means to solve business and consumer problems. That's the point, because when you solve business and consumer problems in creative ways, you break through the clutter, you grab people's attention, you get relevance and then you do everything in more effective ways. So that is the philosophy we have for creativity how you use creativity as a first part to answer your question. Then we get into how to deliver that and we get into the framework that we built here that is based on three P's people, partners and process, because in a company on a scale, we need to make sure that we deal with creativity the right way all over the world, so that we can make sure that everything we do is aiming to use creativity to solve business and consumer problems. We have a process and we train our marketers all over the world in terms of how to ask for creativity, how to judge creativity and how to always use creativity with that angle, and we celebrate the best work that drive strong results every year on a global basis as a way to incentivize the team to keep moving to the right direction. Now, so that's point number two.
Speaker 2:Probably a third relevant element to answer your question, david, is on how we build a relationship with our partners. I have a very strong belief that in our job, we need to aim for greatness. We need to aim for greatness every day, and greatness only comes with trust, because it's all about being able to take calculated risks. You need to trust the ones that go on that journey with you, and trust comes with time. You don't buy trust, you build trust.
Speaker 2:This is why we don't believe in short-term relationships. This is why we do not believe in transactional relationships with agencies or any kind of marketing partners. We believe in building long-term relationships so that we can build true, genuine trust in order to be able to aim properly for greatness, genuinely trust in order to be able to aim properly for greatness. It is the harder path, the longer path, but it is usually the one that delivers the best returns and results in the end of the day. In our case, it took us many years to get to the point we are today, but, yes, we're very proud for being the only company in the world, for example, winning the marketers of the year in Cannes for two years in a row, for being the number one in the rankings of marketing effectiveness for the last three years consecutively. And now our job is to keep raising the bar and to keep learning and progressing with the same level of excellence every day, because the job is never finished.
Speaker 1:Okay, and how do you? I mean those three Ps? I love level of excellence every day, because the job is never finished. Okay, and how do you? I mean those three Ps I love? And let's talk about the last one a little bit, because you know, as the world of marketing changes exponentially and you know we've got AI, we've got everything happening how are you flexing your process to think about the impact of tech? How are you training people up on maximizing the benefits of tech, remembering it's always in service of humanity?
Speaker 2:Another tough question it's a great question, david. I don't believe in recipes. I think in the world as it is today, it's fool to believe that there's a recipe to get things done. So I think the principle that I love and that we have here is that we need to always be very ambitious and also, at the same time, very humble. I think it's a tough combination to have, but it's a very healthy one, because we should push ourselves to be the best in what we do every day. But in order to get there, we need to be equally humble, to learn every single day. By the time you start to believe that you already mastered how to do something and that this is it, or just keep repeating this formula, this is day one of your journey to failure, because the pace of change is radically crazy as it is today.
Speaker 2:So what we built, uh here, after two long years of hard work, david, was what we call the one abi way of marketing. It's a set of processes from category understanding, consumer understanding, portfolio strategy, consumer connections, trade and the financials in the end of the day, to drive sustainable growth at the end of this chain. And then we have modules inside each one of these pillars and we train the entire commercial population in this company every year on the tools and the processes that we use. This is important for two reasons. One, because, for a company our size, we need to behave as one company. This is how we can make our scale a true competitive advantage. Therefore, the teams need to be trained and prepared to use the same processes and the same tools.
Speaker 2:The second reason why it is so important is exactly to make this process a organic process. We are challenging ourselves on the ways to use these tools and how to improve these processes every year as well, and this is why people need to be trained every year, because we're constantly taking this to the next level. We're implementing new things that we're learning from others, and we need to be wide open for that. That's the humble part, right, so that we can improve processes every year. And then it goes without saying, tech, for example, as we just mentioned, is a key component that is constantly updated by the day almost, given the pace of change, but having the one ABI way of marketing is something that is making a gigantic difference in how we work every day inside our company.
Speaker 1:And in a way, let me segue into I'm sure you saw, you know, the very timely report that the WFA issued in the Global Marketer Week in Brussels this year, which is about the marketer of the future and lots of interviews with CMOs to come up with the flywheel of growth for the marketing marketer of the future talked about a lot. There was don't forget, the marketing fundamentals, um, and I guess they're very much a part of your process as well, but can you talk a little bit about that and how you avoid, um, you know, as I said once, don't be the dog that barks at every passing car. You know everybody loves the shiny new stuff, but sometimes the shiny new stuff is a distraction and you need to stick to the fundamentals.
Speaker 2:Would you agree with that? I would definitely agree with that, david, and this is a big trap we face every day, because there's always a new shiny toy and it's a temptation many times for you to get distracted. So I think the principle we have in the One ABI way of marketing is that it's exactly about solidifying the fundamentals. It's exactly about making sure that the key pillars that are the fundamental pillars of our business they are solid, with clear processes and clear tools. Then what we do as we get them updated is exactly to bring these new shiny toys when they're positive, when they really add value as means, never as ends. So, for example, when you talk about modern marketing, it's very common for people to then drive that conversation to AI because it's a tech related element, and even sometimes I see like discussions on how AI is disrupting marketing. Right, I have a clear point of view about that. Like, I don't see a disruption at all. Disruption to me conveys a threat, a potential enemy.
Speaker 2:What I say is thank you, ai. Right, ai is here to help us, ai is here to support us, so we need to embrace it 1,000%. If you remember when the cell phone got invented, it was like a before and after. You just embrace it and everything gets better and easier. So this is the kind of approach, because the trap is if you say, like, ai is the end game, so now whatever we do is to justify the use of AI. No, ai is means for you to do your fundamentals better. In our case, this is how we elevate the way we do target audience segmentation. Ai helps us a lot. This is how we drive personalization at scale. We exponentially improve how we do it in terms of quality and effectiveness because of AI. So we plug these new improvements into the fundamentals so that they can get better. I think if we work that way, then I think it's a very healthy relationship with no distractions.
Speaker 1:That is fantastic, wonderful answer. I mean, as I've re-engaged, bizarrely, with the world of full-time work. You know it's interesting to see AI's use as a you know, taking the notes from it, we could have recorded this. Ai would be spitting out what are the key points we're making? Just like that, the speed it allows for things, as long as you check by the way. Because you check by the way, because meeting minutes taken by AI will miss nuances. But one of the things I looked at yesterday is I was presented some work in the old fashioned way and I said surely you can use AI. We don't want to do an animatic. What can you do with AI to give us something that's more testable? And just like that you go oh my God, now if you fell into the trap of thinking it was good enough to use for real, you'd be making the mistake. But it's things that enhance what we do. I think it's an exciting time and, instead of disrupt, I think it energizes. Actually, let's see 100%.
Speaker 2:I love the example you just gave. It's so simple and so clear. Right the animatics, right. I used to spend so much time and money producing those before even contacting consumers, and now it's 100% AI generated all over the world. Much cheaper, much easier, much more effective.
Speaker 1:Great and simple example yeah, and also that whole thing of you know versioning will remember that when you needed different languages and different cultural nuances, and you can take great material and do that. Anyway, I digress. I mean the this is what what I would conclude by is. No wonder you are the global marketer of the year, Marcel. I mean wonderful to talk to you and listen to you, and I think the thing I like most about what you do is the humility against the extraordinary output, because the work is brilliant, the results are brilliant and you've built a great team and your own humility makes you a very special and deserved winner of the award. So congratulations again. And before we go, what do you think CMOs should have at the top of their agenda at the moment?
Speaker 2:First, thanks a lot for the words, david. They mean a lot and, yeah, we really believe in being ambitious but humble, and so thank you so much for saying that Now thinking about new CMOs and what they should have in mind about new CMOs and what they should have in mind. So the first thing that I always say to new CMOs is two big pieces to never forget. One deeply understand your clients and consumers. Two deeply understand your business.
Speaker 2:Don't think that your marketing and marketing is just a piece of the business. You have to deeply understand your business. Don't think that your marketing and marketing is just a piece of the business. You have to deeply understand your business, exactly because the job of the CMO is to connect that knowledge from customer and consumers to the knowledge of the business, so that you can add value to both. And that's when being the CMO becomes the most fascinating profession you can have.
Speaker 2:So that's the one thing that I always tell new CMOs. The second thing is that we all the new ones, the old ones, all the CMOs we need to get ready for complexity. Right, things are becoming more complex by the day with the amount of tools, with the amount of elements that we need to combine, and this is what makes it fascinating, because there will never be a recipe. It's all about being able to constantly stay open for learning, and this is why, again, we need to be very ambitious but always very humble to learn so that we can deal with complexity in a successful way. So I think, in a nutshell, if CMOs understand deeply the consumers and clients, they deeply understand the business, and if they deal with complexity, they are on the right path to becoming very successful, because they will add value to the companies they work for.
Speaker 1:That is fantastic. Well, listen, absolute privilege to spend time with you, marcel. Thanks so much, and I hope we'll see each other again very soon. But, uh, let me just raise a glass to you and say well done, and, by the way, the product you're raising there. We didn't talk about product, but what's amazing is how non-alcoholic beer is getting better and better. Um, so I'm sure you're driving that too. Anyway, cheers and thanks. So, and thanks so much. Really enjoyed that.
Speaker 2:Cheers, big pleasure, david, cheers, cheers.
Speaker 1:As I said to Marcel there, no wonder he won the Global Marketer of the Year Award and no wonder agencies and people all over the world are clamoring to work for AB InBev. Not a surprise in the slightest, really enjoyable chat. So grateful for all his learning and I hope you enjoyed that episode of WFA's Better Marketing supported by Meta. Thank you so much. Take care.