This is a fantastic episode where Ed sits down with Vinessa Brown, the Executive Director of LifeLine To Success. This organization helps equip and transform former criminal offenders "into productive members of society."
Show Links
Ed Gillentine:
EdGillentine.com
Instagram: @journey.to.impact
Slingshot Memphis:
www.slingshotmemphis.org
LinkedIn
Instagram: @slingshotmemphis
Email: disrupt@slingshotmemphis.org
LifeLine To Success
www.lifeline2success.org
This is a fantastic episode where Ed sits down with Vinessa Brown, the Executive Director of LifeLine To Success. This organization helps equip and transform former criminal offenders "into productive members of society."
Show Links
Ed Gillentine:
EdGillentine.com
Instagram: @journey.to.impact
Slingshot Memphis:
www.slingshotmemphis.org
LinkedIn
Instagram: @slingshotmemphis
Email: disrupt@slingshotmemphis.org
LifeLine To Success
www.lifeline2success.org
00;00;05;21 - 00;00;20;27
Ed Gillentine
Welcome to the Journey to Impact podcast. I'm your host, Ed Yelland. Anton. This is the next episode of Slingshot Stories, and I'm super excited to be joined today by Vanessa Brown, the executive director of Lifeline to Success. Vanessa. Welcome.
00;00;20;29 - 00;00;21;23
Vinessa Brown
Good morning.
00;00;21;26 - 00;00;52;23
Ed Gillentine
Vanessa is joining us by a long, circuitous path from California. She got a degree in Psychology and business administration close to my heart at Stanford, and then made her way over to Memphis, where she got involved in a lifeline to success. And this whole idea of how do we help people in the process of coming out of the legal system.
00;00;52;23 - 00;01;21;03
Ed Gillentine
The judicial system, yes. And becoming productive citizens. And so I'm really excited to hear her thoughts on this because she's been living it for several years. Our last podcast in the Slingshot Stories focused on the research behind helping people come out of the justice system. And we wanted to have Vanessa come join us and tell us real life stories.
00;01;21;06 - 00;01;35;15
Ed Gillentine
It's extremely difficult. It's a long process. There's a lot of nuances. It's not just a spreadsheet where you check these boxes off. Yes, it just takes a lot of work and you guys have done fantastic work in that area. So we're pumped to have you.
00;01;35;17 - 00;01;36;12
Vinessa Brown
Thank you.
00;01;36;15 - 00;01;51;02
Ed Gillentine
So give me the 60 seconds sort of Cliff Note version of how you got into it. And then we're just going to dive into, particularly in Memphis, yours organization, how you guys have been able to help.
00;01;51;08 - 00;02;18;29
Vinessa Brown
Got your 60 seconds here from California Packaging Company and worked too much ended up going out with some friends and met my future husband did not like him. I like to say that all the time, but he did have the law looking for him because he used to hang checks and that's right. Checks. His mom was going through cancer and I was going through cancer at the same time.
00;02;18;29 - 00;02;38;21
Vinessa Brown
So we became real friends. When he got arrested, she asked, could you please stick with him? And it didn't have to do with dating. Just she needed someone with him. And from there, the best place to get to know someone is when they have to do some time. All you can do is talk. But when he got out, the problem was you were supposed to get a job, you know, get you.
00;02;38;22 - 00;02;53;27
Vinessa Brown
I didn't get all that. I couldn't get any of it. And he got frustrated. And at that time, instead of taking his frustration and going back, he took his frustration to fix the problem. And he came to me and he said, I need you to quit your job. And after I mean, I worked for a long time and I loved the stress.
00;02;53;27 - 00;03;05;11
Vinessa Brown
And I say I quit my job. And he said, Yeah, because this is what we're going to do. And it was supposed to be just getting documents. So. Birth certificate and all that stuff. Well, here we go. It's been a good ride.
00;03;05;14 - 00;03;33;01
Ed Gillentine
That's awesome. Hey. And you did that in less than 60 seconds, right? Amazing. So let's just let's cut to the chase. Typically, programs like yours have focused on get a job. Yes, but you already referenced i-D. And like, how do you even get a job? So when you talk about helping the men and women that you guys are helping in this holistic process, what's the first one or two things you guys start helping them with?
00;03;33;04 - 00;03;50;21
Vinessa Brown
Well, the clients that we get and we call them team members and we'll stick with the word team members, they are low in education. They may have a mental illness. They are all aggravated felons. So those are the people. No one wants to talk to. So we do not focus on jobs at all. You walk in my office and ask for a job.
00;03;50;21 - 00;04;01;27
Vinessa Brown
I'm going to probably turn you around if you walk. My office don't have a felony, I will turn around and we do get those. We work on someone standing in the mirror and saying, I love me. Sure, I can get through a day.
00;04;02;00 - 00;04;02;22
Ed Gillentine
Wow.
00;04;02;25 - 00;04;26;10
Vinessa Brown
That's a hard process. When there's trauma, it is normal for crime to be around. I'm used to not having people hug or love me. It is a hard, long process, so we don't age out in what we do because sometimes it takes more than a year, two years, five years, ten years. So yes, So we're always present and that's what makes the program work.
00;04;26;10 - 00;04;27;19
Vinessa Brown
Were present. Mm hmm.
00;04;27;21 - 00;04;50;23
Ed Gillentine
That's fantastic. So talk about that. And I know coming from a bit of a psych background in education, that's got to be super powerful. But trauma. Mm hmm. Extended trauma just comes out a bunch of different ways. How do you guys. How do you guys help them get at that? Stand in front of that mirror and say, I love you?
00;04;50;23 - 00;04;54;04
Ed Gillentine
Because that that takes a long time to get there.
00;04;54;07 - 00;05;10;25
Vinessa Brown
The first thing is we have to build trust. It's great to be a husband and wife team because they get to see us for the real. There's nothing faking. And what we do. So they get to see our walk and they get to see our children's walk through because they come in in the afternoon. But we have to build trust.
00;05;10;26 - 00;05;39;22
Vinessa Brown
We don't make promises we cannot keep. We also have some great partners, we vet partners to make sure that if you're not in the business of loving human beings, then you cannot partner with Lifeline in the black community. Counseling is not normal. Counseling is not a good thing. So how do you get them to go to counseling? Well, the first thing is when you come in my office, anyone, if you ask for Mrs. Brown, they will tell you Mrs. Brown is not here as a mom.
00;05;39;25 - 00;05;58;10
Vinessa Brown
So they'll come into my office and we'll just do a chop it up. And that's just talking. And it's even just sitting and listening and allowing someone to get something off their chest. And then maybe they'll come back and say, What do you think? Yeah. And even if it's something that I haven't been through, I can only give an opinion.
00;05;58;13 - 00;06;17;08
Vinessa Brown
And then I say, But you walk with it. Yeah. And then they'll come back. But the other key to what we do is you have to always be open. We don't close and the group works together. So if they call me Mom, Mr. Brown is dad and then you've got a whole family of children, so they have to work with each other.
00;06;17;08 - 00;06;25;10
Vinessa Brown
So we mentor each other, right? And I can tell you the beauty of it is they also have to mentor my husband because he's been he went to prison, right?
00;06;25;12 - 00;06;47;21
Ed Gillentine
So the first thing that pops in my mind is how much time that takes. Right? And so we're always talking about how efficient we can be in our culture. Probably an obsession with efficiency. I'll lead the pack. There's something I really have to work on because my kids are not interested in my efficiency and my wife's not horribly interested in my efficiency.
00;06;47;24 - 00;07;09;29
Ed Gillentine
So talk about like that's a lot of time and you guys have kids. Yes. Due to this idea of of being present, which you can't always plan when I call them teachable moments, can always playing when those are so how do you that's a lot of time how do you handle that and grow the impact.
00;07;10;02 - 00;07;11;13
Vinessa Brown
That's called your lifeline.
00;07;11;15 - 00;07;12;02
Ed Gillentine
Yeah.
00;07;12;04 - 00;07;33;05
Vinessa Brown
So your lifeline are graduates that have already graduated. They're the lifeline they can call out. So that's why everyone's always present. Somebody is present. The work is not hard, and I think everyone looks at it as hard. It would be the same thing as what I do in my home when my children need help is the same thing that I do every day in the office.
00;07;33;07 - 00;08;04;05
Vinessa Brown
And when you see someone that is broken, this is it's such a emotional job that we have. We see someone that's broken. It is in your heart to be there for them at all times. So the men come in at 9:00 in the morning. We have classes which we go through anger management and things like that, but they don't leave us until the street lights come on because then we allow them to go out to what we call job training, and they do blight mitigation.
00;08;04;08 - 00;08;22;24
Vinessa Brown
So imagine. Well, it's nice. It's going to be 96 today. They're out there in the 96 degree weather working together with heavy material that people get nervous that they're going to hurt somebody else. But they don't. They start working together because of everything they talk to in class. And one thing they do in class is it's almost like Vegas.
00;08;22;24 - 00;08;41;24
Vinessa Brown
What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas, what happens in class stays in class so they can work it out together. And it's amazing in the morning sometimes we may not get to the topic in the book, but we get to the topic. What happened last night? I went home. My girlfriend's mad because I can't pay for all this because I used to stand on the corner and sell drugs.
00;08;41;25 - 00;08;59;10
Vinessa Brown
Sure, what do I do? And they'll come to me and I'll have to tell them, Oh, I had the same problem. Mr. Brown got out and it's hard for a woman to understand. A man needs to be hit. But when he could not be. And I was making the money. And even though everyone knew where the money was, we were doing this together.
00;08;59;16 - 00;09;12;21
Vinessa Brown
It was not. I was hurting his feelings because I was the bread maker. So we would have these discussions and then we have to bring the family in also and understand. Remember, this person is new. This is not who you used to think. They were.
00;09;12;23 - 00;09;13;11
Ed Gillentine
Interesting.
00;09;13;11 - 00;09;21;22
Vinessa Brown
So it's not just the team member. It turns out to be a whole group of people that have to come together to help this team member become whole.
00;09;21;22 - 00;09;31;27
Ed Gillentine
Yeah, the whole village thing. So I'm thinking you just said it's not hard work, but I'd have to guess that the emotional burden is heavy.
00;09;31;27 - 00;09;33;05
Vinessa Brown
Yes.
00;09;33;08 - 00;09;58;22
Ed Gillentine
But talk about what they're actually doing through the day. You reference that there's some class time period. They're sort of on the job training, which I love. Right, Everybody. And you have a psych background that everybody can go to a counselor and write down. I know I can call this stuff I'm supposed to do, but if I don't go practice my anger management or how to de-escalate situation or certain words, it's just not as good.
00;09;58;22 - 00;10;03;19
Ed Gillentine
It sounds like you all get to take them from a classroom. Yes. Right out of the frying pan in the fire.
00;10;03;26 - 00;10;20;07
Vinessa Brown
We call we call the institute like college courses and then when they go out to work, that's the lab. So everything that you have in there, it's almost like going to church. Yeah. When you go to church and the preacher is talking, you've got to take everything that he said and now work through your week. And that's exactly what we do.
00;10;20;07 - 00;10;24;25
Ed Gillentine
And what are some of the subjects or topics that are in the classroom? And then how does that go.
00;10;24;25 - 00;10;48;19
Vinessa Brown
Out to be direct? There's baby mama drama that that that's key it's a submission was last week because people use that word in the wrong way. And that is so interesting when they're talking to me about it. There is family unification, anger management, time management, grooming.
00;10;48;21 - 00;10;49;27
Ed Gillentine
Wow. Yeah.
00;10;49;29 - 00;11;12;09
Vinessa Brown
And we'll stop there because grooming is. Yeah. And, you know, I teach them etiquette because I had to tell them we'll go all the way back into history. And I have to. Most of the men and women, they'll they'll start talking about slavery. But I have to tell them that there was an etiquette that your ancestors had. We don't want to lose that.
00;11;12;11 - 00;11;25;12
Vinessa Brown
So let's bring that back. We were a hardworking people, but now we have a group that feel entitled How do we lose that and become a hardworking people again so we can keep that legacy going with our children?
00;11;25;14 - 00;11;29;14
Ed Gillentine
And what are some of the responses you get to because of. These are not easy subjects.
00;11;29;14 - 00;11;51;08
Vinessa Brown
No. Oh, they look at me crazy and it's funny and then they laugh. But then we start having conversation and that's what we miss. They're used to being in a class that you're lecturing. Oh, no, we're having conversation because I'm not a teacher. I like having conversation. All of their opinions matter which they use to not matter. When they were in prison, they were only a number.
00;11;51;11 - 00;12;08;10
Vinessa Brown
And before they got to prison, they may not have been anything because mom and dad are in and out, in and out. So their time matters. So class should end at noon. If we end at 1:00, we end at 1:00, because I want to make sure everyone has their opinion now and then the next day we sort of put it together.
00;12;08;17 - 00;12;12;15
Vinessa Brown
So Mrs. Brown, you said that and I felt this. What about that? Yeah, well, I.
00;12;12;15 - 00;12;34;22
Ed Gillentine
Think you mentioned teaching and sort of the separation between teaching and lecturing. And you think about how a mom teaches, it's it's a lot different than just a lecture, But you also teach about there you talked about sort of their reaction and I think about, you know, true teaching it most of the time takes some repetition. Yes. So you got to sort of throw that difficult subject out there.
00;12;34;23 - 00;12;58;12
Ed Gillentine
Yes, I got to process it, come back, reprocess it, all those sorts of things. Talk about, if you can, real quick as we we try to land the plane. Just a couple of stories or anecdotes where you've seen lives changed, that even for a person that's seen this walked through it in a large part, you're just like, Man, that's crazy.
00;12;58;12 - 00;13;00;03
Ed Gillentine
Yeah, I got to have a part of it.
00;13;00;06 - 00;13;20;29
Vinessa Brown
I'm going to give you two one. One is a little sad, but I'm going to give you two. And the first one is this is our fourth year in. Had a young man that spent about eight years in prison. And every drug charge you can have, he had walked in, my office was on probation. So he said, Well, ma'am, I think you need to call my probation officer and let her know what I'm doing, called the probation officer.
00;13;20;29 - 00;13;35;08
Vinessa Brown
And the first thing out of her mouth is, why are you wasting your time? Mm hmm. Yeah. Oh, what do you mean? She said why you waste it. He's going to be back here in probably about 60 days. And I said, Well, let me call you back in 68 days. I like a challenge. Yeah. I said, What do you want to do when you grow up?
00;13;35;10 - 00;13;56;25
Vinessa Brown
And he said, I want to be a general contractor. Well, turns out finds out that is charge would not allow him to take the test. Well, now the challenge. We work together, and I'll say his name. Billy Irby. Billy Irby worked to pass the GI test or the GC test. Billy Irby worked hard to be a pillar in his community to give back.
00;13;56;28 - 00;14;19;04
Vinessa Brown
And Billy Irby is building a harbor town, South Memphis, in Midtown with a company that he's had. In the beauty of this, he's gave back to Lifeline. So he came back with a check to Lifeline to make sure that he could pay rent for ten members. My next story is are one of our oldest members and this is Mr. Henry.
00;14;19;07 - 00;14;40;09
Vinessa Brown
And Mr. Henry had drunk driving charges. His mom would tell you, and she was later in age that he just would never commit to anything. But he would get up every morning, get on the bus from Bartlett to come to Frazier to be at class on time, because he felt a part of something. When he came to us.
00;14;40;11 - 00;14;58;19
Vinessa Brown
Mr. Henry could not work the Blight Patrol. So we gave him a assignment. His assignment was to watch the truck, which is the most important assignment. Because people like to run off with your equipment. Sure. Oh, yeah. And he did that. And then he started having heart issues. But Mr. Henry would never stop calling. So he'd do check ins.
00;14;58;19 - 00;15;23;10
Vinessa Brown
Check ins? Mother passed in. It really took him through. But he still do check ins. Well, team members start stopping by his house, checking on Mr. Henry. Mr. Henry passed away a couple of weeks ago, but we went to the service. His family could not. They shared stories about Lifeline that we never knew, he shared, so his life was a lifeline.
00;15;23;15 - 00;15;44;12
Vinessa Brown
He appreciate Lifeline when he need a ride to the doctor. He knew who to call. That wasn't transport. That tells me that he got what he needed and that was a tighter family. Someone he can trust. That's all we want. Yeah. When you talk about one thing I'm real good at and that's being a mom and all, I want every child that walks out of my lifeline office.
00;15;44;12 - 00;15;48;03
Vinessa Brown
And we also mentor children. So it's a whole big.
00;15;48;05 - 00;15;48;14
Ed Gillentine
That's a.
00;15;48;14 - 00;16;00;19
Vinessa Brown
Community. That's a big community. Yes. Is for them to come back and smile. They don't have to go to work and I've got many that jobs just aren't for them, but they come back. Ms.. Brown I walk my children to school every day.
00;16;00;21 - 00;16;01;07
Ed Gillentine
Well.
00;16;01;09 - 00;16;17;28
Vinessa Brown
I'm Mr. Dad. I'm you know, I'm the best mom ever. My job well done. And it's only because every morning I pray and I say, God, leave me which way I have to go. Because if not in itself, then I make a whole bunch people like Vanessa Brown. And that's not what my job is.
00;16;18;03 - 00;16;25;00
Ed Gillentine
That's fantastic. When I hear those two stories, I think about hope versus hopelessness.
00;16;25;00 - 00;16;26;01
Vinessa Brown
Yes.
00;16;26;04 - 00;16;48;18
Ed Gillentine
And I think of sort of family versus aloneness. And I think those are just key to anyone's life. But coming out of complex trauma, I mean, I think about eight years in prison, that is that's life changing and it's habit forming.
00;16;48;20 - 00;16;49;17
Vinessa Brown
Yes.
00;16;49;20 - 00;17;15;01
Ed Gillentine
And and to come out of that and and have a place to go, really remarkable. If you think about going forward with y'all's organization and the criminal justice system in general, what are one or two things you think are key to effectively doing what you guys have been doing on a larger scale?
00;17;15;07 - 00;17;41;13
Vinessa Brown
The biggest thing is if you've served your time, you're now back a citizen. If you purchase something, you're a taxpaying citizen, give them their rights back. They can't vote. That is the biggest thing. And that is my biggest fight right now, is to make sure that they can vote because they are citizens. Secondly, the men and women are brilliant and they work great with their hands and we want to get more training.
00;17;41;13 - 00;18;08;21
Vinessa Brown
And I've got a great guy coming in for a Vassy but autobody anything with their hands that is no longer cool. Yeah, because everyone likes everything electronic and to teach them the essentials in life and watch them grow. And that would take someone taking the time to do that. We've got a couple of people, but if you look at how many people are coming out of prison, I'll give you this one story.
00;18;08;24 - 00;18;31;13
Vinessa Brown
I go up to Riverbend, which is our maximum security prison every quarter. Last time I went, I was the first time ever I was escorted by task force. And when I asked why they took me to intake, we had three greyhound size busses of men going into prison of every color. If they're going in, they're coming out. What are we going to give them?
00;18;31;15 - 00;18;46;12
Vinessa Brown
And just like with our children were taken away, the afterschool programs and all that, well, we're doing the same thing with the men and women are coming out of prison. We don't want to give them employment. But guess what? Their job is not to go back. They don't want to go back. Right. Try spending a night in prison.
00;18;46;12 - 00;19;05;18
Vinessa Brown
I mean, just going to visit is not cool. So they will do everything they can not to go back. But if you don't allow them to be a citizen and then be a human and not allow them to go to work and get the things that everyone else gets, then they go back to what they know, which is not the best thing.
00;19;05;18 - 00;19;07;20
Vinessa Brown
But so you have to survive it.
00;19;07;21 - 00;19;32;11
Ed Gillentine
Yeah, I. I hear you as well, said one of the things I love about work is it brings dignity. Yes. And I remember as a young boy mowing grass, I still like to go do it because it is something that actually gets finished. Right. And you can. Yes. And admire. But whether it's working on a car, we had technical college come in and on on our previous episode.
00;19;32;13 - 00;19;46;20
Ed Gillentine
Amazing stuff going on. That's more than just that living wage. But I think if you can couple a living wage with stepping back and saying, I just did that dignity is right up there with hope.
00;19;46;27 - 00;19;47;18
Vinessa Brown
Yes, it.
00;19;47;18 - 00;19;48;13
Ed Gillentine
Is. I think.
00;19;48;14 - 00;19;49;02
Vinessa Brown
Yes, it is.
00;19;49;03 - 00;20;13;19
Ed Gillentine
Well, I really appreciate what you guys are doing. I appreciate you sharing the story and I am interested in having you guys back and just sort of seeing how it's going in the future. Yes. But thank you so much for joining us. To everybody that's listened, I hope this has been helpful. You can reach out to Lifeline, to success on the Internet or Instagram or whatever is the easiest method for you and ask for mom.
00;20;13;21 - 00;20;14;00
Ed Gillentine
Yes.
00;20;14;00 - 00;20;14;27
Vinessa Brown
Don't ask my mom.
00;20;14;28 - 00;20;21;18
Ed Gillentine
Brown and she'll be happy to let you know more about what they're doing. Y'all are doing fantasy stick work and we wish you all the best.
00;20;21;19 - 00;20;22;11
Vinessa Brown
I appreciate you.