How to Build an Audience and Turn Them into Paying Clients with Christina Garnett

Community builder and advocacy strategist, Christina Garnett, uses audience intelligence and social listening to learn more about audiences to determine needs, behaviors, and more. Her work serves to help brands better connect with their current customers, potential customers, and fans.

In our conversation you will learn:
- How to foster organic relationships and connections with your audience
- How to nurture your audience into a customer base
- What does an audience-to-customer journey look like?
- What you can do to get out of your own way

Bio: 
Christina is featured in HubSpot Academy's Social Media certification course as well as their separate course on social listening. She is a partner for On Deck's Community Builder Program, teaching a module on advocacy as a community growth lever. She has been a speaker for national events like INBOUND19, Social Fresh 2021, Adapted Digital Media Summit, and local events for the Virginia SBDC. You can also find her featured in ebooks by HubSpot, Social Insider, and Talkwalker, and articles in The Next Web, Adweek, and Meltwater.

Joya is currently enrolling members for international (Europe) and domestic (NYC) strategy days. She also leads a year-long intensive mastermind of C-Suite level women, which is accepting applications for 2024.

https://www.joyadass.com/
info@joyadass.com

Transcript

Joya: 0:00

All right. One of the top things that I hear women tell me all week long, whether I'm networking, whether I'm meeting them in person, whether I'm moderating a workshop is how do I find clients? How do I find recurring clients? How do I get in front of new audiences? And that brings me to my conversation today with Christina Garrett. Who has cut her teeth on connecting brands to their audiences and hopefully also turning them into customers. Christina, welcome.

Christina: 0:27

Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to chat.

Joya: 0:29

Christina, tell me a little bit about what audience building is and the modern day definition. What did it used to be? What is it now?

Christina: 0:36

Yeah, we have this very much media framework for the past, where it was more publishing and talking at instead of talking with. And so what you see, and you still see it today, sadly is you have content that's very much specific to let us tell you what we are doing. And then you get to engage. You're lucky enough to engage as an audience. Where now it's more about you need to have a very thoughtful approach. You need to understand what the audience wants and how they want to engage with you. What's their love language. What makes them feel appreciated for some people just liking a tweet from them is enough to make their entire day for others. Maybe they wanna be a guest or they wanna be offered a unique experience, but you need to understand that now, especially from a social lens, it's a human experiment. And so one tactic isn't gonna work for everybody, just like one tactic with anything else in your business, isn't gonna work. There's not gonna be one product that everyone wants. There's not gonna be one email that works for everybody. And so really having that thoughtful approach that you need to see them as humans, more than you see them as an audience or a customer. Just coming from that lens is gonna have a really good foundation for how you talk with them, how you encourage conversation, how you make them the hero of any campaigns that you're doing. How can you make them feel like they have a seat at the table?

Joya: 1:56

Mm. All right. So yesterday a woman wrote me and she said that she wanted to start a mentorship platform for Indian women. I'm Indian, right? And the first thing, I punted it back into our court and I said, well, Who's your audience? Mm-hmm And have you taken the time to interview that audience to find out A, the niche you're serving and B, what are their specific pain points so that you can speak to it? So let's dial it back to basics. If today we needed to figure out where our audience is suffering and make them the hero. How do you even initiate that process?

Christina: 2:27

I really like breaking down, and coming from a foundation of what are the personas that I think, what is my perception of what I think I'm attracting? Really doing the same thing that you would with a product market fit, who are we trying to attract? And then once you have that baseline be prepared for there to be changes. Do social listening. Start looking at the kind of people go on spark Toro and see what podcasts are they listening to? What kind of social accounts are they paying attention to? What YouTube channels are they watching? And then as you learn more, you're gonna massage those personas. You're gonna have to tweak them as be like, oh, I thought they were like this, but this isn't really it. And then as you learn more and more about them, you're not only gonna learn their pain points, you're gonna learn and see what kind of competition do you have out there. And what can you do, and what can you offer that can differentiate yourself? You have to assume that just because you have a great idea. People think that because you have a great idea and no one else has thought of it. And so they jump right in and it's a red ocean. It's not the blue ocean they thought it was gonna be. And you don't know that without the research, you have to be customer and audience obsessed. You have to make sure that you're interviewing them. You're talking to them. What do you currently do? Oh, this is your pain point. How do you currently solve it? Oh, you can only solve this piece. What's missing. What can we, what else can you provide? And understanding that those pain points, even if we had a mentorship program from Indian women, that feels niche enough that maybe you just have a couple pain points. But that's not true. That could be based off of price. It could be based on location. It could be based off of the type of mentorship they needed. Some women are gonna want to be in a one to one space. Others are not gonna feel comfortable with that and would rather have a group opportunity. And so you're gonna learn about them. You're gonna find out what their needs are. You're gonna find out what's missing. And then you're also gonna figure out hopefully that that learning never ends. Because, especially in their world today, the choices we made two years ago are very different than what we're gonna make as our economy is having this downturn. There's so many variables you can't control, but they are a hundred percent gonna impact your audience. So you have to be constantly learning.

Joya: 4:33

So tell the audience a little bit about you. What is your success and why are you qualified to talk about this topic?

Christina: 4:40

Yeah, absolutely. So I've worked with multitude of companies from small business nonprofits. I was a marketing director at a local Roanoke, small business development center, worked with the SBA or an arm of that. I've worked with nonprofits, I've worked with higher ed. Specifically working with colleges in Virginia, and the Roanoke, Virginia tech Roanoke center to prep them for how do they look at social? How do they determine what that looks like for their audience as well as for their OKRs. And then I've also worked with an agency. I worked with ICU C. I was a strategist, working with fortune 500 brands, creating playbooks, doing a lot of social listening and social monitoring to learn more. And currently I am the senior marketing manager of HubSpot, for offline community and advocacy.

Joya: 5:22

So walk me if you can, through a case study of doing social listening for a brand, and what were the next steps that you took?

Christina: 5:29

Yeah. So the first steps, if we're talking like foundation building from scratch, social listening, the first thing I would do is make a list of keywords. What are the kind of words that we're thinking that our audience is gonna be using and then making a list of who we think those people are as well as where we think they live. So are they on Twitter? Are they on LinkedIn? Are they on Reddit? Are they on Facebook? Are they on Instagram? And so figuring out basically the answer to those journalistic questions. So what are we looking for? Where are we looking for it? Who are we looking for? Why are we even doing this? Because we want to learn more. We want to understand this audience and then how are we doing that? Are we doing that natively? Are we looking in Twitter and using like advanced search or even just a search bar? Are we using a tool like a melt water? Or talk Walker, what are we doing to being able to really figure out what that looks like? And then how often are we doing. A lot of people will start a social listening program because of a PR incident or because of an event coming up. Oh, well, we got this bad piece of press. This blog was written about us. I need you to do some social listening and figure out what the sentiment is around that. Or is it picking up any traction at all? Usually, a lot of social listening is done reactively instead of proactively. And it really needs to be more proactive because that's how you're gonna learn. And you get to learn from your audience, from your customers themselves. And a lot of times they're not going to spruce up their language for you. A lot of people in social they'll they're so busy dealing with the people who've added them. Like they've specifically mentioned them that they don't look at the mentions where their brand wasn't added. So because they could mention HubSpot, but not have an at in front of it. So unless we're doing social listening, we miss out on those conversations that could be good, bad, and indifferent because we're too busy thinking that those notifications are the sole place of all the conversations about us and that's just not true.

Joya: 7:26

You just mentioned two things, melt, water and something else. What are they,

Christina: 7:30

Melt water and talk walker. They are two different programs for social listening. There's tons that others that I could mention. There's tons of different options. Depending on what your budget is, and what you're wanting to uncover, that's really gonna dictate, what kind of tools you're looking at? I really like talk Walker because it has a free option called talk Walker alerts, which are very similar to Google alerts, but it pulls not only the stuff that you would get from Google, but it can also pull from Twitter. So I, one of the first things that I mentioned to people, if they're considering doing social listening, but they're not sure about what they'll find. I will have them do Google alerts and talk Walker alerts, just to see and just do it really quick. Like just your brand name or your industry. I feel that's a really good baseline. So then you can see, oh, these are the types of conversations that are happening. Now I can drill down and be more niche.

Joya: 8:22

Okay. So in my case, if I had up a leadership platform for women, the key words I would enter in would be leadership women, entrepreneurship?

Christina: 8:29

Yes, but I would make sure that you're using essentially like a bullion search. So if you just do leadership or you just do women, you're gonna get a lot of content. That's not gonna be helpful for you that you're gonna spend so much time having to clean up to find the gold for you. But if you do a bullion search, that's an opportunity for you to say, I want leadership and women, or I want leadership and not this. And it's a way for you to segment and drill down. Like the hardcore kind of search opportunities that you want to find, because if you're doing something that's a bit more broad. Yes. You're gonna get a lot of content, but is it gonna be really insightful for you? Usually not. Usually you spend so much time cleaning it up. You feel like it's not gonna be helpful.

Joya: 9:13

When you think about where your audience lives. And I'll take myself as an example. My audience used to live, before I really drilled down on my avatar, my client avatar was Facebook. And now I realize that the senior woman leader or the woman business owner that has the money to invest in her personal development lives on Twitter. She lives on LinkedIn. Now I have a built in audience on LinkedIn and I post there regularly, but Twitter is still someplace where I'm posting and I don't have necessarily the audience that I have in critical mass on some of the other platforms. So when somebody is making that kind of pivot, what do you recommend?

Christina: 9:47

I absolutely live on Twitter. Like I adore Twitter with my entire soul. I think it's interesting to note though, there's a lot of people on Twitter, but we judge based on how people engage, not based on people actually being there. There's a lot of passive people on Twitter. They're going there because it's an opportunity for them to find out about new things. It's an incredible news opportunity you can find out about breaking news really quickly. It also feels really inclusive at times because you have the opportunity to reach out to people that on LinkedIn there's gates that you have to cross in order to get there. So I would just keep in mind that just because you don't see those people on Twitter engaging and being active, it does not mean that they're not there. It doesn't mean that you can't create that value for them. And especially for women on the internet. I don't think anyone here that's a fan of yours is gonna be surprised. There's a lot of women who are incredibly active on social in, in terms of consuming content. But they're not as active when it comes to like actually creating content because there tends to be a barrage of negativity. There are actually bros who will come to them specifically to try to attack their viewpoint. Just mainly just because they're a woman and it feels like it's an easy target. And so, especially for your specific demographic, I would really lean into those channels and figure out how can I make them, how can I provide value? And then how can I make them feel safe? So like for Twitter, there's Twitter communities where you could have people, you can invite people over. And then the people who are in that community are able to talk and share and essentially have their own micro feed. And if you kept that close, where only women in leadership would be able to join that gating creates a sense of safety that you're not gonna have or experience in the main feed. Another option are Twitter chats. I absolutely love Twitter chats and I love the brands that do them and the people that do them. Because what it does is it creates an event and a space and it explains how to get in the door. It provides an opportunity for you to engage and talk to each other, and it shows you how to do that. I had a tweet that went viral a couple years ago. I specifically inviting people to introduce themselves to marketing Twitter and just make friends. And so many of the people in their responses, cuz I had tabled it to if you have a thousand or fewer followers. So those people whose value is I don't have this number, this magical number that equates to my worth. Therefore, I probably am not gonna be seen as knowledgeable here. I invited them to come over and even then some people still tried to self deny themselves and self-regulate their worth in their responses. Oh, well I do social. Is that really appropriate for marketing Twitter? Do I belong? And so I find that a lot of people self reject. In a place where there feels like there's a lack of space. So if you were on Twitter and you know your people are there, but they're may be not engaging, look at their behaviors and see what can I do to make them feel safe? What can I do to make them feel like it's okay to have a response to this? It's okay to have an opinion online. It's okay. And if something happens, this is a beautiful thing, too. If you do have those actually boys come after you. Now we have a community of strong leaders and women who are gonna take care of that and be like, we don't do that here.

Joya: 13:15

And how do you set up a Twitter chat? Is that just like setting up an event in LinkedIn?

Christina: 13:19

Similarly, basically what you would do is you'd set a cadence, so make sure that they're regular so that there's an understanding of like, okay, every Wednesday at 2:00 PM, we're gonna do this Twitter chat. And what you do is you provide an opportunity there's usually slides or image slides that you would share and it'd be like, all right, here's an introduction. Here's the theme for this talk very similar to the slides that you do for LinkedIn, and then you would just have all right. Q1 question one, this and everyone responds with a one. So the answer to one, and then they go from there. And so Madeline LAR does a fantastic one called Twitter smarter that if you're interested in doing a Twitter chat, I highly recommend looking at what she's doing. She's really brought a lot of people together. And what it does is it creates a communal space for people to ask questions, respond, engage with each other. And it's just a safe space because in Twitter you're like, okay, I don't know where I can jump in. I don't know where I'm wanted. I don't want people to be like, no one asked for your opinion, but in a Twitter chat, It's recommended. It's the entire behavior that's encouraged. So if you're thinking about work, like how do we do Twitter? How can we create something? Especially if you already have a LinkedIn community that maybe is on Twitter, but isn't active or would love to be on Twitter, but it's just terrified cuz it can be a dark place. I would really look at Twitter chat. Like I said, look at Madeline's scholar. She does an amazing job. Winnie son does a fantastic one too. Just there's a lot of really great Twitter chats. And most of them honestly are by women. The ones that I tend to be more engaged with because they are welcoming and kind and make me feel like being intellectually curious is never a bad thing. And so I would really recommend if someone's interested in doing more with Twitter and wants to keep that kind of community audience feel, do that. Twitter chats are fantastic.

Joya: 15:05

So if I'm reflecting back what I heard, you could create a community in Twitter chat, but there's a gate. It's not like the whole world can join in and be a part of the conversation.

Christina: 15:13

That's the separate thing. So Twitter communities are gated. So you create a community, then that's gated the Twitter chat lives on the main feed. Okay. So that exists. So anyone would be able to join. There are rules though. Like if you respond, you respond to this. If it's Q1 respond a one there's usually a hashtag associated with the Twitter chat. So other people can find other responses that they're engaging with. And there's general rules. Like we're gonna be kind, we're gonna answer questions. We're gonna be as a, this is gonna be a space where we can talk to each other and connect. And so I find that it's a really great opportunity for people who want to do more with Twitter in a safer way, in a more regulated way.

Joya: 15:53

Right. Let's broaden out a little bit past Twitter because I wanna make sure it's applicable to the folks that are wanting to listen in today. So if you had to foster an organic relationship and connect with your audience. I was in conversation though, with a woman who was a dating coach and she is teaching women how to navigate heartbreak, navigate rejection, navigate getting back out there and getting back on the horse. So if she wants to foster organic relationships and connections with their audience and ultimately have them enroll in a coaching program, what would you recommend?

Christina: 16:23

Recommend opportunities for them to feel like they have a human touchpoint with her. So it could be, Hey, we're gonna do like a Galentine's day zoom call where everyone that's on your perspective email list is able to come connect. Maybe there's maybe you bring someone over to make mocktails, whatever that looks like. Anytime especially since social's pervasive, and we've had all these years now with COVID of feeling isolated, anything that you can do to make you come across as more human and real, you're not this bot on the internet. Yeah. Is huge. And anytime you can make that a safe space for others, I'm gonna say safe space a lot. But there's an opportunity there for you to connect. So if do a do a zoom happy hour where. Anyone that's in your email list is able to attend, just come on over. Maybe it's an hour. You can talk, we'll have this theme. Maybe we'll have someone come on and do like an experience from Airbnb. Like we have a bartender come and do cocktails or whatever, or wine tasting. Do something that feels fun and connective with the people that you wanna talk to and then see what that looks like. Another opportunity. Especially for someone who's doing like a dating coach, vent sessions are massive. Massive. Imagine if you get to create a space and you're like, all right, so here's what we're gonna do. We are going to let, we're gonna let you do these anonymous messages where you get to vent your story, but you don't get to say anything that would be obvious that it's you. So you get to take that poison and pour it out of you and put it somewhere else. And say, we're just gonna talk, we're gonna talk about these experience. What does that look like? I think that you'll find that there is this. Maslow's hierarchy of needs, especially on social cuz needs don't change. If anything, they get exacerbated because we feel even more like we're connected, but we're more isolated. We feel like I have this opportunity to speak to everyone, but now I don't feel like I'm worthy enough to talk to anybody. Why, who do I need to be in order for people to feel like, okay, I will, I'll answer this connection request. I will talk to her. And so I think if you talk and you really look at your audience, figure out what their pain points are and figure out how can I make them feel safe? How can I make them feel heard? How can I make them feel connected to me? And how can I make it feel like they believe I'm truly invested in them and I'm, and I want to give them value. A lot of my work at HubSpot and HubSpot has been a major piece of my career, even before I started here. Because I really love the inbound methodology, which is you give that value first. You give more than you take. And a lot of people, if you're trying to build out that audience, you have to showcase that what you have is worth providing. You have to give them that little taste. And a lot of people are like, it's an ebook that like, what if it's a little piece of you? What if it's an opportunity to learn more about you? Because that ebook might be great. But it doesn't have your energy and it doesn't have your empathy and it doesn't have that kindness that radiates from you that no one else can do. That's the thing is the way that you treat people and the way that they see themselves and your energy and how they feel appreciated, that's the ultimate differentiator. That's the ultimate way to go from a red ocean to a blue ocean. So anytime you can make those connections feel more human, it's a win. It's a huge win.

Joya: 19:51

I know blue ocean is a title of a book, but just for those who don't know the reference, I know the reference. Yeah. Blue ocean is what exactly?

Christina: 19:58

So if we're looking at like a blue ocean strategy versus a red ocean, think of red oceans, like there's blood in the water, there's lots of sharks. There's a lot of things to compete with because the blue ocean it's very calm. It's still, maybe you're the only boat that's across it. The more that you differentiate yourself, the more you will pulling yourself away from those sharks, the more you are pulling yourself away from all the blood in the water, where you are, that kind of singular figure where things are calmer. You're that one stop shop for people you're that one person that really checks off all those boxes for them. And so the way you get there is most people will think this is an issue. This is a problem. Here's the solution. And then they look. And they're surrounded by sharks that do the exact same thing that just want the exact same amount of meat as them that want that blood in the water. What can you do that offers more or offers a difference or offers something that feels significantly unique? That people want to go away from the sharks and they want to move away from that really heavily packed, competitive space to something where it's like, I want that instead. And you say this with a lot of brands.

Joya: 21:09

Yeah. Let's stay with that thread. I've got a member who is in the diamond wholesale space. We both, I don't know about you. I live in New York city. That space is super crowded and she's really trying to grow that business in a new direction and possibly even go after a new audience. So what would you recommend to her? She's got a fairly big audience, but how she turn them into customers, a recurring customers?

Christina: 21:33

Especially in the diamond space, mission is incredibly important. There's a lot of the conversations about diamonds was like, they're unique and they're one of a kind, and they're all these things. And that's really deviated into conversations about like environmental sustainability.? And also what does that look like for younger audiences that are not necessarily seeing diamonds as the investments that they once were? So what I would recommend doing is looking at your current audience, figuring out what that looks like. who are the people who are most likely to be a repeat customer? Is there a specific age group? Is there a specific persona that's attached to that person? Are they more of a focal point as to, this is just their repeated behavior? That's just what they do. They just, every 10 years I get a new diamond and those people exist. But then usually if you're thinking about a, another persona, most not all, but most of the time you're gonna go younger. And you're gonna look at, for now it would be like millennials, gen Z, what are their needs? What are the things that are the most important to them? And so there's different routes you can go. Tiffany's is a great example. Tiffany specifically worked with Beyonce and she did a lot, they did a lot of work to really reestablish themselves as this. Like they still offer the same products, but it's more for like urbanites and it's more for people who are into popular music and it's not, I even think they, I think the tag about was like, we're not your mother's Tiffany. Yeah. That was very much indicative of, we are very clearly going after a younger market, and what does the positioning need to say in order to do that? And in that case, it's we're literally removing ourselves from of the older demographic to say, you know who we are. We don't have an awareness problem. The problem was that you didn't think we were for you. And with this positioning and with our ad campaigns and with the stars that we are aligning ourselves with, we are gonna dictate that we are for a younger market. But younger audiences care about other things too. Maybe their sustainability Everlane has done a great job of really positioning themselves as sustainable fashion, their anti-fast fashion. They are very clear about having strong basics. What does that look like? And I think it really depends on what you're needing, but for your friend, for your client, chances are they're gonna look for a new audience and that new audience is gonna be significantly younger. So then it's gonna be what matters to them. So it could be, what does this look like? So it could be sustainability. What is the positioning of the product that would make them feel like this is good for the environment? It could be, this doesn't feel hip enough. This doesn't feel like it's made for my age range. So maybe that's different cuts, maybe that's different sizes. I can't imagine a lot of younger audiences wanting a massive ring the way like an older audience would. I don't want my hand be weighed down. I want something that's like dainty and cute. It also has to match with the lifestyle that I wanna live. And the lifestyle that someone wants to live in New York is very different than lifestyle like for me, I live in Virginia. Yeah. Most in Virginia, our lifestyles are gonna be quite different. There's gonna be alignments. But the day to day is gonna be quite different. And so I would have your client look to see what does that, if you want younger, what does that mean? And what are the major things for them.

Joya: 24:50

But it sounds like it all comes from the mission statement. I wanna think about another industry like cars, right? Subaru talks about adventure. Volvo talks about safety. Mercedes talks about status, but at the end of the day, they're all cars that get you from point A to point B. But the mission statement that they go to market with is about something bigger.

Christina: 25:09

It is. And also people self-identify themselves with those positioning statements too. Like the person who drives a SU like I joke with my husband, I can like you and most people can do this. You can drive around town and I can describe the person who would drive that BMW versus that Subaru versus that Volvo versus that Audi. And I'd be right about 99% of the time. So the thing too is that it's about the mission, but it's also, people buy things based on how they self-identify. And it's either, this is indicative of who I am, or this is indicative of who I aspire to be. And so like for that client, either you gotta meet them where they are now, or you gotta meet them where they want to be. You have to be like foundational or aspirational. And you have to know those people in order to even do that. I don't know what your goals are. If I don't talk to you, I can assume kids are I'll be wrong. And so it's just really important to understand what those, where they are and then where they wanna be. And then deciding where in that journey you wanna meet.

Joya: 26:06

So I have another member who's in the high end art space. And I'm just pulling from all the folks that had RSVP to our original. She's in the high end shipping space, but traditionally art has gone from Europe to us and back again, but she's really seeing wealth creation happening out east. And so if she was to think about what that journey looks like from audience, to customer journey to, to becoming a customer of art going in that direction. How do you navigate that conversation?

Christina: 26:36

You have to know how people are becoming aware of art, the people who are wanting to buy fine art, they didn't just naturally show up with the money in their bank account. They've probably been looking for quite a while. So it's about finding the right piece at the right gallery that they respect that they know. A lot of the thing with Sotheby's is that you have a lot of those auction houses. It's the clout that gets people in the door. And the clout also opens them up to have like certain pieces and certain artists to be able to be reflected from them. So if you're an art seller, knowing who are the people who would be, who, like you said in the east, who are able to be in the space to want to buy art, what kind of art do they want? Is it a specific style? Is it a specific artist? Is it a specific timeframe because you also have cycles in art where pieces that were going for sale, like in the sixties are now having resurgence. Then you have disruptors, like Banksy who will laugh at you as you buy this piece. And so it, it all comes down to that's the common thread. It's understanding those people. What are they looking for? How do they find things? Are they going on Google? Are they looking on TikTok? Are they, do they have an assistant whose entire job is to find pieces for them? And depending on the weight, on the wealth scale, there's people who have buyers for them. And the person's job is to find those pieces. Cuz some things is it's not even the artist, it's the scarcity. It's the harder to find the piece the more they want it, the more they covet it. So just knowing like what's making those people tick, what do they want, what would they wanna see otherwise? Are they. Are they collectors in the sense of magnitude, are they collectors in the sense of they singularly just want all the same artists. Like I collect Neil Gaman books, I have other books, but if you look at my library, like there's a whole corner, that's just Neil Gaman stuff. Is that the kind of collector that they are when it comes to their art pieces. And so it all comes down to that audience intelligence.

Joya: 28:32

And then finally, what can you do to get out of your own way, Christina?

Christina: 28:36

When it comes, stop, assuming. Yeah. Stop assuming, and also realizing that your people change. It's very easy to set up a process and then to make it rote. And then you never make any changes. You never make any tweaks. The world changes all around you. And so does your audience, and that's when you come two years later and you're like, wait, I've been doing the same thing that I've been doing for years and it's not working now. The fact is that by the time you realize it's not working, it's probably not been working for six months to a year. You have to be adaptive and you have to be okay with not getting it right. I find too that, especially as a marketer, there's a lot of pitfalls for marketers. One, we assume that we are the audience and we tailor our work. We tailor our emails. We tailor the content to what we think is gonna be good instead of what they think is gonna be good. Secondly, we try to impress our peers over our audience. We're so busy wanting to get an award instead of getting a conversion. You have to be customer obsessed. It doesn't matter if you got a lion, but like no one did anything with your commercial. Like it sold nothing. It created no revenue. So those are the key things. Get outta your way. It's not about you. You're not the main character. And as a marketer, like we wanna be the main character. We wanna be all over social and we wanna be in all these people's homes, but it's not about you.

Joya: 30:02

That's probably the biggest paradigm shift to make Christina, if anyone wants to work with you, are you just, are you, owned by HubSpot or are you a consultant? If people wanna work with you, how do they get in touch with you?

Christina: 30:13

Technically not owned by HubSpot, but I am very honored to work for HubSpot. I do a lot of like coffee chats. So if anyone wants to put 15 minutes and just pick my brain for a little bit, absolutely happy to do that. I'm on Twitter@thatchristina G. You can also find me on LinkedIn and this has been lovely. Thank you so much for having me

Joya: 30:29

Amazing. And you know, one of the things that I have is a mastermind for women leaders who have a very specific goal, and I put them on a very prescriptive journey from A to B to get to where they need to be going. And so I'm thinking a little bit about how I can integrate some of this learning and maybe even you into some of that programming for next year's cohort. So thank you. And anybody that wants to get in touch with me, it's always joya@joyadass.com and that's with two SS. Thank you, Christina.

Christina: 30:57

Thank you. It was lovely.