As I interview women each week, in different industries: Legal, Coaching, Yoga/Wellness, they all share the same concern: How do I get new clients? How do I get recurring clients?
Sales is an art form. Danielle Zeitlen Hughes teaches this stuff for a living. "So many of my clients have become friends because I'm myself with them." She and I are in conversation next Thursday at 10am EST. She shares her 6 tips to get new clients and recurring clients (and how to inject your personality into creating the relationships)
1) Don’t network. Work those relationships.
2) Be consistent: in your voice, your message and your marketing.
3) When in doubt, the answer is more you.
4) ABC - always be connecting.
5) You want to attract the right audience and repel the wrong one.
6) A strong brand is a form of career insurance.
[00:00:20.630] - Joya
Alright, Danielle. We met a week ago at a picnic and here we are on our LinkedIn Live. And I'm really excited because I do a lot of dinners. I'm in front of my membership all week long. And the recurring complaints, not complaint, but the problem is, how do I get clients? How do I get new clients? How do I get recurring clients? It doesn't matter what vertical people are in, they're complaining about the same things. So I love that you're here. This is your zone of genius. For those of you that are just joining us right now, Danielle Zyland Hughes is the Chief Personality Officer at More Than Words Copy. And Danielle, give us a little bit of exposition. What does that really mean if you're just explaining this to your grandmother?
[00:01:00.630] - Danielle
Oh my God. That's what I say in my training. Like, you want to write your bio so your grandmother can understand it. That's amazing. We did not plan this, I swear. Essentially, what it means is that I help people be more themselves in their content so that they can attract the right audience and repel the wrong one. And as I like to say, when you call yourself the Chief Personality Officer, it's because when you have your own business, you can call yourself whatever you want. Yeah, we can tell our own story, right? We write our own narrative.
[00:01:31.570] - Joya
What's the barrier, though? Why are people afraid to bring their authentic self to their social media, to their work, to any professional context?
[00:01:42.570] - Danielle
I think it's a couple of things. One, I think people think it's all or nothing. I think a lot of people are, I have to tell you everything about me. I have to reveal all of my private thoughts and feelings and I have to share everything. And that feels extremely uncomfortable and overshare. So that's one. The second piece is I think a lot of us grew up in corporate and worked in the corporate world. And when you come from a corporate background, you are trained to toe the party line and fit in and be a good corporate citizen. And individuality, until recently, was not an asset that most companies wanted, praised or encouraged. And so shifting your mindset from I had to be one way, I had to fit in to wow, now I need to stand out. It's a big leap for a lot of people and I think it's helping them realize what they can put into their message. That's just enough to create those connections where they're not sharing too much. And actually, when you reveal a little bit more of yourself, you are going to repel part of your audience. But that's the point, right, is that you need to be so comfortable being you that you're only attracting the right people.
[00:02:57.870] - Joya
I've been talking on social media that I'm about to take my mastermind to Morocco next Tuesday. And one of the things that we are on in month nine of our trajectory together is who are you showing up in your thought leadership? And some of that base work is something called shadow work, if you're familiar with it. Where you're really digging up some of the deep, dark, repressed parts of you. And instead of keeping it deep and dark and under the rug, actually confronting that to understand how that may or may not be showing up and driving a lot of your actions. So there's a series of questions, and I can share that line of questions, but I just think sometimes that's an interesting self inquiry to engage in because that bleeds into all the other ways that you show up in other contexts.
[00:03:42.990] - Danielle
Absolutely. And I'm not familiar with that, so I'd definitely be interested to learn more. For me, a lot of what I talk to my clients about is not about and not that there's anything wrong with digging up things that are going on, but it's not even about that. It's what do you love to do? What are your hobbies? What are your passions? What lights you up inside? And how do you just share a little bit of that in the professional setting to create those relationships and create those connections? That's like the nicest little bit to start with for a lot of people.
[00:04:16.680] - Joya
I shared what I'm packing for Morocco in a video because my mastermind was asking for it. And I was at a party on Monday and someone was like, you know, I just want you to know that really helped me pack for my last trip. And I was like, well, it wasn't for you, but I'm glad that you benefited from it. But it's something that I've been doing innately, and I just decided to start sharing. And so it's interesting to see what comes up on the other side.
[00:04:36.980] - Danielle
Absolutely. And what people relate to. Right. That makes you more relatable. It's like, oh, my God. Some people might think, oh, joyous, she's been on TV, she's this anchor, she now has this amazing company. I can't relate to her. And then you're like, here's my packing cubes, and here's the dress that I'm rolling up. And it was celebrities. They're just like us. Right? Again, it's very relatable.
[00:04:58.590] - Joya
So Tanya is joining us, and we've got some other folks joining us. Thank you for coming in. I just want to share with you, for those of you that are just joining us, that Danielle and I are talking about, the six tips that she has to offer on how to get new and recurring clients. Tip number one is don't network work those relationships. You and I met at a picnic. We established a relationship, and we took it beyond that picnic. So what does that mean in that context when you're working that relationship?
[00:05:25.170] - Danielle
I think so many people get hung up on the word networking, and instantly they don't know how to behave. Right. When you say, I'm going to a networking event. People think, oh, I got to shake people's hands. I have to be on, I have to smile all the time, and I can't be myself. But if you consider that every interaction with someone is just a chance to build a connection and a relationship, it removes that pressure and just allows you to be yourself and just ask them more questions about who they are. And it doesn't even have to start with anything professional. I don't know how we started our conversation, but I guarantee you I did not say, what did you do? Because I never asked that.
[00:06:04.940] - Joya
No, you had wine.
[00:06:06.540] - Danielle
I was going to say I probably asked if you wanted a glass of wine or I complimented you on something you're wearing. Like, what is just an ice breaker that's like human to human, woman to woman that we can talk about, that just makes everything fun? And then it's easier, and then ten minutes later, it might be, okay, so what do you do and who do you know here? But it doesn't have to lead with the professional first, because the relationship can get built in a different way, and then you can build the professional on top of that. So I think for me, it's just changing people's mindset about what networking is, and it's just getting to know another person. That's it.
[00:06:43.470] - Joya
Now, how does somebody take that from in person to online? A lot of people are often connecting with me as they're I'm sure they're connecting with you on LinkedIn. How do you work those relationships? Because I've reached out to people, hey, thanks for connecting, and then you don't hear back. So how do you build that relationship?
[00:06:59.910] - Danielle
Well, so are we saying the person reaching out, how does that person build the relationship?
[00:07:04.450] - Joya
If someone connects with me on LinkedIn but then doesn't further the relationship, they don't ask me a question or they don't want to build the relationship, as you say, how do I build that relationship with them?
[00:07:14.520] - Danielle
So you could look at their profile and hopefully their about page and their LinkedIn bio tells you a little bit about them, and you can say, hey, I saw that you connected with me. And I also see, oh, we have these many people in common, or I see that you do this, or I loved this post or this article that you shared. Right? There's got to be something in their bio, their postings that you can climb onto, and it shouldn't be forced. If you are looking at somebody's stuff and you're like, I don't see a through line here. Don't force the connection. But we reach out to people for specific reasons, and usually we know someone in common. You do something that's interesting to me. I see a connection professionally, or I like something that you shared. And so it's like a dating profile. What is something that you can connect to that's in that profile that's going to make you want to get to know this person more. So there's always something we live in a virtual world. There's always something online that you can find to create that next step.
[00:08:18.770] - Joya
So I'm reflecting that get to know them as the person that they are. Be specific in your outreach and that you took the time to actually learn about them. When you reach out, establish that common ground. And then what about taking them to the client level? When is it okay to make the ask? I'm in this line of work, I'm.
[00:08:36.850] - Danielle
Looking for X. I mean, I think it depends on it depends on how urgent your ask is. I think sometimes it's okay to do it in the initial as long as you give them a reason. Right? Again, this is always like, what's in it for me? So if somebody is going to reach out to me and tell me that, oh, I see that you have this company and you do this and I do this, would that be of service to you or would that be of benefit to you?
[00:09:05.410] - Joya
[00:09:06.190] - Danielle
And sometimes whatever they're asking is exactly what I'm looking for at that time. And they have no idea. So it could be just timing. Other times I might just be like, you know what, I don't need this. But do a little research. The thing that I think frustrates me, and I'm sure you, is people who are like, oh, I see you have a digital agency. How is your automation going? It's like, I don't really use automation. And if you did any research on my company, you'd probably know that, but you didn't and you're spamming me. So I think if it feels like it's personalized, it's okay to make the ask. But don't ask for someone's business. Just ask to connect and say, would you like to learn more?
[00:09:42.440] - Joya
Got it. So tip number one is don't network. Work those relationships. And sometimes we forget there's a human being on the other side of that piece of business, being consistent in your voice and your message in your marketing. Tanya and I were just on a call and we were talking about her recent trip, and I was like, on your trip? I'm so interested to learn through the lens of you being a stylist what you saw in the way of women in Parisian fashion. That's what I really look to you for, because you are my guru when it comes to styling. So what was your perception of that? So is that being consistent in your messaging or is it something else?
[00:10:17.670] - Danielle
I mean, Tanya is a great example because she has her complete ecosystem is consistency in how she shows up, in what she talks about, in her voice. So for me, consistency is knowing who you are, right? So if you read her bio, if you read her website, if you read her posts, you can tell that the same person is showing up. She's not trying to be something that she's not. Right. And her message is beyond style, right? It's evolved much more beyond style and how your confidence becomes your style and other aspects of your life factor into your style and your business and how it helps you. And then same thing with her marketing. Is there's a consistency to the message that she puts out in the marketing that she does in terms of her social posts and the regularity with which she posts? So when I talk about consistency, the goal is that the written content that you are putting out should sound exactly like if somebody was going to talk to you on the phone. What we don't want is for our bio to be one thing and then when we have a conversation with a potential client, in their head, they're like, this doesn't seem like the same person.
[00:11:29.340] - Danielle
Right? That's one thing. And then your message should be, again, always what you are doing in order to help your audience, right. So you're always in service of them and thinking about, like you said, about your packing, like, what's going to help my audience? Yes, it's about you, but it's really for them, it's like, here's what I'm doing, but it's helpful for you. And then the consistency piece in your marketing is what are you doing on a regular basis that people can see? And whether that's posting on social with regularity, for me, it's my newsletter, which I send out every other week, which will fail for three years. That was what I dedicated to myself. I said I can do twice a month and I will consistently do that. And I have. So making a commitment to yourself to show up on a regular basis and again reach out to your audience with that level of consistency.
[00:12:18.210] - Joya
And when you're in front of the client, I just want to reiterate. If there's a disconnect in any of your collateral, the way you're showing up, the physical way you're showing up, the tone that you're using. If there's any inconsistency, that's when the alarm bells can go off on the other side. But what is that on a deeper level? Let's go a little deeper. What does that signal to a client about why they do or don't want to work with you?
[00:12:40.290] - Danielle
It signals either that you are not who you purport to be or that you had somebody else to your materials. There's something in Congress there and I don't know what it would signal exactly, other than there's something not truthful here. Or it's a comfort level that this person is not comfortable enough with themselves that they put one thing online and now they're another person behind the scenes. Right. If you are creating this professional relationship with someone, they want to feel comfortable with you behind the scenes. They want to know that you can get the job done but they want to hopefully build that relationship with you and establish a trust. And if they've sought you out for a skill set, yes, they probably already assume you can do that skill set. Then it's, what is it going to be like to work with this person? And if they're feeling like those things don't jive, they're not going to want to work with you. I don't care how good you are.
[00:13:39.640] - Joya
Before we leave this tip, what's a brand that you love that's very consistent in their message and their marketing and voice?
[00:13:49.630] - Danielle
There's a lot of them, but I would say Ben and Jerry's comes to mind. And yes, they're very political, but they're also very unapologetic about it, and they own it, and they know that it is potentially detrimental to them in some ways, but they live by their values. So I think that's another piece, too, is like, what do you stand for? And how do you stick by that and say, I know that this is going to potentially mean that some people are not going to want to work with me or do business with me, but I don't care because I'm going to attract more of the like minded people.
[00:14:22.630] - Joya
So, number one, for those of you that are joining us a little bit late on how to get new and recurring clients, we're speaking with Daniel Zeitlin Hughes, who is Chief Personality Officer at More Than Words Copy. Number one is don't network. Work those relationships. Remember that there's a human being on the other side. Number two is to be consistent in your voice and your message in your marketing. And then tip number three, when in doubt, the answer is more you. Translation, please.
[00:14:50.170] - Danielle
So this goes back to personality brand. So when I call myself the Chief Personality Officer, it's because I teach something that I call personality brand versus personal brand. And as we talked about in the beginning, I think a lot of people feel reluctant to put themselves in their messaging professionally because they think they have to share everything. And so to me, personal means private. So I agree. Why are you sharing everything that's private about you with the world? But your personality is who you are, right? It's on display at all times, and we are just dialing up and down our personality based on who we're interacting with. Your family and your friends get one aspect of it. Colleagues and the barista or your male person gets a different aspect, but it's there. And so for me, when I say the answer is more you, it's what is a piece of your personality that you have to keep showing up with, that you want to give to your message to show that authenticity. And anytime I work with someone or people say, wow, I just feel so uncomfortable, it's like, you just got to push past that and be yourself.
[00:15:56.510] - Danielle
I think we're so afraid that if we show our true selves people won't like us. And it's the opposite, because more people who are attracted to what you have to say and who you are will show up and the people that aren't will just go away. You won't even know it. You won't even know it because your message is doing the vetting for you. And that's the beauty, is that you're only really attracting and the people that don't want to work with you or aren't interested probably won't be reaching out anyway.
[00:16:23.500] - Joya
Yeah. Well, what's interesting is that I have always done adventures as part of how I've done leadership programming. I've only recently started to actually lean into that in my messaging. So it's always been me, but I wasn't having more of that. I don't lead with that, and that's really my differentiating factor. So being more me means that I'm leaning into the adventure piece of how I do leadership programming.
[00:16:46.880] - Danielle
Absolutely. And obviously it's working for you. Right. It's connecting. And I see it when you talk about it, like when you talk about your women and you talk about your trip, your face lights up. That's what we're trying to figure out here. It's like when I say more you, it's like, what's going to make you smile? What's going to make someone just want to lean in and learn more or get to know you more? And you can't be shy about those things, like on whatever it is that makes you you.
[00:17:12.970] - Joya
And what takes you out of the 2D and makes you more 3D and holographic? There was a member that I had who is a therapist, and she is of Guyanese origin. And one of the things that she wanted to do, despite the fact that she had this thriving practice, is to be able to go to Guyana and do some of her mental health work there. And we were on the phone yesterday and she articulated on our mastermind calls, and she's finally gone and done it. She spent five weeks there. The world didn't fall apart. Her practice is still thriving, but when you actually lean into that, there's so much more joy with which you'll be able to bring back into the thing that you do.
[00:17:47.050] - Danielle
I love that. And it makes me I got so happy just, like, thinking about that.
[00:17:51.100] - Joya
[00:17:51.800] - Danielle
And I'm sure she's going to come back transformed and now lead with this in so many more ways, right. That's going to thread through everything and how she approaches her business from here on out, regardless if she goes back to Guyana. Now, it's like, baked into the experience and who she is.
[00:18:09.860] - Joya
So number four is always be connecting. What does that mean? Danielle?
[00:18:15.350] - Danielle
So that kind of builds off the network, work those relationships. It's the same thing, right? You're always looking to build connections, and it doesn't have to be professional. It could just be creating this. I call it my girl gang, right. Anytime I meet an amazing entrepreneurial woman. I'm like, I want to know this person. Just because they just fill up my life, they fill up my cup, I can learn something from them. And you just never know how you can potentially work together, help each other, anything. So the goal is just to always be connecting with everyone that you meet. And it doesn't have to be a long term connection, it doesn't need to be a best friend, but it's like, just put this person into your bucket of people and work those relationships and just connect with them and think about how you can help them and potentially how they can help you. But it really should be more about how can I help someone else and what can I do for this person.
[00:19:16.520] - Joya
I had a member who is always networking and so she was networking on the sidelines of her kids soccer game and got into conversation with one of the parents about what she does. And she got walked away from that game with a client because she wasn't coming into it thinking there's only one context, ie. The chamber of commerce that I can do networking. I can be networking while I'm at my kids game. And just by sharing what she does, by virtue of that, she was able to get a client. So I would love for you to talk about that. What are some other contexts that we don't naturally think about? The grocery line going to the US open, waiting for your concessions. Where are places that you could be connecting that you're not thinking about right now?
[00:20:00.350] - Danielle
I was actually just going to say it's like everywhere, right? Like in your elevator of your building. Again, this doesn't have to be job related. Could just be striking up a conversation with someone. Maybe it's the same person you see in your elevator every morning as you're going to get coffee or you're going for a walk and you're just chatting. And it might take a while, it could take weeks, it could take months. But at some point that conversation might shift and they might be like, oh, by the way, I see you all the time. Like, what do you do? Or I see you're carrying this magazine or this thing. Is that do you work in this industry? You never know who people are and more importantly, who those people know, right? You and I both know that on LinkedIn, I think it's like your third and fourth connections or the magic connections, not the first and second because chances are you know your first and seconds, but you don't know who they know. And that's where the magic is. So I would just say always try to strike up conversations with people if it feels comfortable, where it makes sense.
[00:20:58.450] - Danielle
I like to compliment people online. When I'm waiting online, if I see someone wearing something, sometimes it's just nice to cheer them up and you never know. And other times they might start engaging you. And it helps flex that muscle of starting a conversation, right? If you're only starting conversations in networking groups, it's going to feel very stale and dry. But if you get used to just starting conversations with random people in random situations, it's going to be so much easier for you to have that as a natural gift that you can use all the time.
[00:21:29.930] - Joya
I want to remind anybody who's listening to this conversation right now to start putting your questions in the comments section. And I'm going to ask them to Danielle so that you have direct access to her and her brain today at 10:00 a.m. Danielle, I see and hear you on how we're doing this connecting business while we're in person. But a lot of us are connecting with people right here on this platform LinkedIn. What are some parameters around how to connect with people here? You said the magic is in the third and fourth connection, but what's the best way to reach out to those third and fourth connection?
[00:22:01.820] - Danielle
I mean, I think it's always about being genuine, right? Like, don't reach out to someone just to reach out to someone. Have a thought process behind why do you want to connect with this person? Right? Either what do you want to do with them for them, or what do you want them to do for you? And think about how you can position that in a way that feels not salesy, but again, conversational. And it could be we have this person in common. I saw that they posted about something that you did, and it allowed me to go read about you, and I'm super impressed, and I think that I would love to learn more. Here's what I do. Would you be open to a conversation? Always relate it back to, like, anything? Do you have someone in common? Because that's obviously much easier to kind of start the conversation if you share a connection, but also give them the reason why and don't make it about, I do this and I want to tell you about me. Make it I saw this that you did. It's super interesting to me. Or I'd love to learn more because everybody wants to talk about themselves.
[00:23:08.350] - Danielle
So I think you can always aim with flattery and with just wanting to know more about another person, but do your homework. Don't just reach out and make it generic. Put something in there that tells them this person read something I did or went to my website or has some level of knowledge about me, and they put in the effort. And I want to reward that effort.
[00:23:30.570] - Joya
I know I always reward that. I remember there was a PR guy who knew that I came into the Nasdaq exactly at 330 in the morning, and he would have a tape ready for whatever client he wanted to have run footage in that morning broadcast. And this person clearly not only did some due diligence, but he stalked me because he knows the exact moment that I walked through the door of this particular building and all of Time Square. And I asked him about that later, and he was like, yeah, but I have people that are in charge of doing that for me, and that's how I'm effective at what I do.
[00:24:01.170] - Danielle
Oh, my God. Me. I love that. I mean, it could be a little creepy at 3:30 in the morning on the floor of the Nasdaq, but clearly it was not. It worked.
[00:24:10.180] - Joya
Yeah. So, again, I want to ask anyone who's watching this, if you have questions about how to get clients, how to get recurring clients, how to really parlay a lot of different things, and to be more powerful in all the context you're showing up. And please put your questions in the chat. All right, Danielle, the next tip that you have on this account is you want to attract the right audience and repel the wrong one. Some people, when they're first starting out their business, want to be everything to everyone. So this one takes a little while to sink in.
[00:24:40.330] - Danielle
And I would say there's the reason that this is an expression, is like, when you try to attract everyone, you attract no one, but you can't appeal to everyone. Nobody is for everyone. People that are for everyone, right? That's like vanilla, and not everybody even likes vanilla, so it's not even for everyone. Right. And you don't have the capacity to handle everyone. You wouldn't know what to do with everyone if the whole world started coming to your website or wanted to work with you. Right. It's really about the ideal customer and getting more of the ideal customer. And if you have everybody coming to you, you're going to spend all this time waiting through the wrong people to find the few right people. When you think about positioning yourself to the world and putting more of yourself into your message by being you, right, it's like looking for friends. You're going to hopefully attract more of the people that are like, I like this person. Like, there's something there and I want to know more. And the ones that aren't, they're just going to go away. So when I say repel, it doesn't mean offend.
[00:25:46.950] - Danielle
A lot of people read that and think, it means, I'm going to offend people. It just means they're going to go someplace else, they're going to work with someone else. There's plenty of work to go around for all of us. And this is about who is the right fit for you. And you don't need a lot, right? I don't care what business model you have. You want a small base of rabid fans and customers that will keep coming back and more importantly, tell their friends and their family and their colleagues and clients. And that's how you grow.
[00:26:17.290] - Joya
One of the most profound things that I think my sales coach has said to me is that your clients are mirroring back to you what it is that you are resisting. So if you are not in alignment with something, price was the example. If you're not in alignment with the price that you're charging, chances are what they're mirroring back to you is that I can't afford it or I'm not going to pay that because you yourself are not in alignment with what that fee is. So I wondered if you had some thoughts on that, because that to me was a real profound statement.
[00:26:44.960] - Danielle
I mean, that's really interesting. I would say that potentially resonates. But it could also be that you're not attracting the right people to the price point that you are worth. And so it could come back again, like you said, mirroring it. But like, mirroring it in what way? In the way that you come off or in your messaging, or in the value that you are allowing people to see that you bring to them? Right? Because pricing is value. And we all know that there are people that charge outrageous amounts of money and some of us can't wrap our head around it and people will pay it. And then people you meet that you're like, you're so undervaluing yourself, why are you doing that? So much of this is this, right? And what you think you're worth and the value that you bring and what you offer. And working yourself up to that place where you believe in what you're charging and in who you're attracting. And somebody once told me that if you're not a little uncomfortable with your price, then it's too low, right? Just a little bit. Like it should just get a little stuck in your throat when you say it, until you get comfortable saying it, and then you're probably charging the right amount of money.
[00:27:54.630] - Joya
Another coach has said to me to get into alignment with that price is that you got to go invest that yourself. Go out there and invest at that level and know come from a place of knowing as opposed to resisting. But that brings up an interesting another point. And Zena has just asked a question. I'm going to ask that to you, Danielle, before we move to our final point. What about our mindset? Because we're offering some great tactical advice here, but I think it's important to visit our mindset when we're thinking about the clients that we want to reach. So what do you have to say to that?
[00:28:24.470] - Danielle
I mean, mindset is probably everything, right? I mean, if you don't believe in yourself and you're not in the right headspace, I don't care what you offer, you're not going to deliver what you should be delivering. It's interesting. So my newsletter for tomorrow is going to be all about expertise. And I think that 100% speaks to people's mindset, right? What allows someone to call themselves an expert. And I think so many of us get caught and we get caught in labels we don't know, oh, I'm not really an expert, I'm just this, I'm just that. But if you are good at something and people are coming to you for a service that makes you an expert because you can do something better than they can. It doesn't mean you're the best. You're not the greatest in the world. But you do something better than someone else, and therefore there's that level of expertise. So I think for mindset, and again, it depends where you are in your business journey, right? Obviously, if you're starting out, your mindset is going to take a little while because you haven't had the breadth and depth of experience. You haven't failed, you haven't succeeded, you haven't really tried.
[00:29:28.460] - Danielle
And it's not until we kind of get beaten up a little bit and come back stronger, that I think you start figuring out your mindset and start realizing what you're good at and what the world needs. And again, a lot of that is showing up as yourself, right? If you can show up as yourself, it's going to be so much easier to realize the value that you give because you will feel more comfortable as opposed to this imposter syndrome or pretending to be something that you're not or thinking you're pretending, but you really actually have all this talent and this ability anyway. You just have to start believing your own hype.
[00:30:03.670] - Joya
Tip number six is that a strong brand is a form of career insurance. We have some questions filtering in, and we're going to get to them as soon as we cover off on this point. But what does this mean Danielle?
[00:30:14.260] - Danielle
So I stole this from Harvard Business Review article by Dori Clark, who's an amazing employee. She does a lot of articles on employees and branding.
[00:30:23.730] - Joya
She's a former speaker here as well, in this space.
[00:30:26.140] - Danielle
[00:30:26.920] - Danielle
Oh my God I love her! So she wrote an article and one of the things was a strong brand as a form of career insurance. And so I have started to go into companies to do employee branding workshops because as we talked about earlier. More organizations are valuing individuality now, and they want their employees to express themselves, to showcase what they're good at and to be their own advocates. And so I think if you have never spent time thinking about who are you beyond your job description, it is very hard for you to be visible in your organization. Or visible online, or visible in your business. And so this mantra to me was just so resonant, because if you don't know who you are, you're not going to be visible and you're not going to be guaranteed to have that career trajectory or get noticed or grow. And if you are consistently hiding yourself or just doing the bare minimum, this quiet quitting, you're hurting yourself, right? It's one thing if you don't want to do extra because you feel like you're not being compensated, but if you're only doing the bare minimum, you're also hurting yourself and your potential to grow and learn and do more.
[00:31:42.990] - Joya
Well, before I ask Zena's question, when you talk about a strong brand, is that your personal brand? Is that the company that you own's brand? How do you differentiate between the two?
[00:31:56.050] - Danielle
I think it's both. So I think it is your personal brand if you're a solopreneur, freelancer, an entrepreneur, or an employee. And then I think if you're a business owner, it's both. Right? Because your company's brand should somehow share values with your own brand. Right. They don't need to be synonymous, but there definitely needs to be overlap there. So, like, I think about, I'm sure you read yesterday about the owner of Patagonia giving his entire fortune back to the Earth, right? I mean, you don't get more aligned with the values of Patagonia than that being like, we're done, we've taken this away and now the Earth basically owns our company. And you could say it's marketing, you could say it's all these things. But obviously the brand was all about sustainability and the environment. And now they are doubling and tripling down on that with this new unveiling. So I think it's like his vision was manifested in the company and now they're taking that one step further and marrying it.
[00:32:57.460] - Joya
Yeah, he's walking the walk and talking to talk. Zena asks. This is more of like a toggling question. So when you're talking to a potential customer versus somebody who is an HR. Who is the decision maker in a larger organization who might have access to a whole group of potential customers. So then how do you toggle your message in order to make them into a client?
[00:33:21.490] - Danielle
Sorry. Okay, explain that one more time.
[00:33:23.810] - Joya
Let's say I'm talking to you, Danielle, and I know that you are lord and master of your own domain. If I'm going to come to you for messaging on my website, I am only talking to you and I'm going to show you my personal brand. But in the case of Zena's question is, what if you are the HR director for Google? That means that you are actually speaking for an entire coachary of personalities. And I don't know yet what I need to sell you because I don't know the pain points of that group that you are actually the face of. So how do you toggle your messaging when you're trying to turn this particular relationship into a client?
[00:33:56.830] - Danielle
So I think there's a duality there, because the person who is the HR person at Google obviously has their own personality, right? And you're going to get to that person through a connection, through something that you can talk to them about. Right? So that's establishing that relationship first to understand what is this person, her or his struggle on a day to day basis? And then what is their struggle in terms of filling their pipeline at Google or what they need professionally? So I feel like it's both, because the employee is going to have their own struggles that you need to figure out and then doing their job is also there. But I think if you just go in with that secondary piece of, okay, Google is struggling with this, and I'm going to just talk about that. You haven't allowed that person to be themselves and to show you who they are. And so I think building that relationship first before you go for the larger professional relationship would be much more helpful in the long run.
[00:34:59.760] - Joya
Yeah, and I'll give you an example. I'm speaking to a group of lawyers. Both in house counsel and litigators in November. And the person that asked me, the host asked me because she liked what I had to say. But I said, "Okay now that I'm going to get in front of this group, I actually want to pre interview six of the people that are going to be in the room. Because I want to understand what their pain points are. I'm not coming from a place of service or value if I'm not actually speaking to what's keeping them up at night." So I think that that's another way to skin the cut. Yes. Now this person's kind of give open the aperture a little bit, open the doorway for you to come in to a Google or a Mastercard or a Visa or wherever else. But now how do we address the pain of the folks who are actually going to be in the room?
[00:35:43.590] - Danielle
I love that, and I think that shows that you're not making assumptions, right. You're not going in and saying that this is my standard generic conversation and my generic talk and it's a one size fits all. You're saying, I want to customize this for you and let's get to what you're struggling with, what your goals are. And I think a lot of times when you're talking to someone, it's like, what are your goals? What are you trying to do with this? Because a client or customer might come to you and say, I need X, which is not really what they need because that's not going to get them to the goal. So when you say, what are you looking for? What do you want to achieve? Then your expertise can shine and say, okay, let's dig into this more, because I think this might benefit you more and get you the results that you need.
[00:36:21.800] - Joya
Seeing beyond what they want and seeing what they need.
[00:36:24.930] - Danielle
[00:36:26.650] - Joya
The next question is, let's talk about recurring clients. You've already converted someone once. How do you go back to the well and farm for additional opportunities?
[00:36:38.110] - Danielle
So there's a couple of ways to approach this because I think it depends on what you do, right? So I know a lot of people that if you have a service, is there a follow up service? Is there something that you can sell them into that is an ongoing way to stay in touch with you, to work with you, for you to support them. So that's one thing. Do you have a model that allows for something like that, for you to build on it? The second thing is always going back and saying, I'd love to know how you found our work. What are the results that came up from this? Like, if it's something that you can measure that they have metrics on, if you did a website for someone, can you quantify, oh my God, we have this much more clicks and engagement and traffic and say, I did this for you. Do you know someone else who might benefit from this? And is there something else I can help you with? A lot of times they just want to work with you and they want to stay in touch with you because you've helped them in some way and you just don't know what else they may need.
[00:37:39.800] - Danielle
And you can always just say, are you looking for any other assistance or anything else I might be able to do for you? And start the conversation that way. But I think the bigger piece is having multiple services that allow you continuity. And it doesn't have to be something you sell in originally, although I know some people that sell a website and then say, and I will also sell in three years of service to that website and you can bundle that immediately. And then you've built in this recurring client and this recurring revenue.
[00:38:07.870] - Joya
And by way of example, I teach a public speaking master class and one of my students, after she concluded, said, "well, I would really love it if you had an additional module on how to make videos for social." This would be like the next step for me after completing level one with you. And so I found that to be really interesting that I didn't realize that there was a real opportunity there to create a structure for people to continue on.
[00:38:30.940] - Danielle
And I think that goes back to mindset as well, right? And value. And if you realize that there's value in someone working with you in one way, most likely it's going to be value with them in wanting to work with you in other ways. And listening to your audience, listening to what people ask for and seeing what you can do for them. You have to always be thinking, what else can I offer that's of service to my audience and my clients?
[00:38:56.080] - Joya
So then the next question is a little more complicated, because let's say you have a one time service, right? I don't know, I build you a website and now that website is up and running, what is the longer term engagement that you can glean from that? So in other words, instead of them making this a one time only opportunity to work together. How do you package yourself up so that it can be a longer term engagement, a six month engagement, a ten month engagement?
[00:39:24.610] - Danielle
So maybe before you even do this website, maybe you need to interview a bunch of stakeholders and create a brand guide for them because maybe they can't build a website because they don't really know who they are or they haven't done these user experience testing. There's maybe a way to even stretch the original assignment and do a deeper dive and say, before we do this, I want to do a whole brand exploration. I want to do a strategy. Maybe it's, we're going to do your website and then how are you going to get people to this website? Let's talk about your lead generation. Let's talk about an email campaign. Should we build you a newsletter? And maybe the newsletter is the ongoing way. So if you are an expert in your area and you do one thing, well, that's great, but what else is going to get someone to that one thing and keep them going? I'm sorry, I don't know if you hear this debate.
[00:40:20.030] - Joya
I can keep chatting or we can keep chatting, but I'm going to ask anybody who's on this call right now if you have a question about how to get clients, maybe you're in house at a law firm and you are a partner and you're a revenue generating partner, or maybe you're at one of the big five consulting firms and you're a partner there. How does that kind of change the nature of the conversation that we're having here Danielle?
[00:40:45.410] - Danielle
I mean, obviously you have the duality there, again, in your personal professional career that you are trying to grow as well as the larger company that you are responsible for. And I actually have done workshops at Price Waterhouse. And regardless of the level that you are, everybody needs to work on themselves. Everybody needs to expand who they attract and how they present themselves. And I think I don't care if you're the most senior person. You probably haven't taken a ton of time to think about how you want to show up because you've been so busy showing up to ascend the letter and to represent your organization. And so I think it's always a benefit to take time to think about what are my goals from a professional perspective and how do I then marry those goals with the needs of my company or my organization or my law firm? There should be some overlap there. It doesn't have to overlap completely. But again, it shouldn't be completely in congress either. There should be a little bit of I want to advance and I also want to help my company. And by doing that, by advancing, I'm going to grow, I'm going to stretch myself.
[00:42:00.570] - Danielle
I'm going to show up in a more visible way and in a different way. You're a partner, all of you are different and you're going to attract different types of lawyers and different types of people to the firm. Right. And so the more diverse voices and the more individuality each person has, more individuality will probably come from the bottom as well and they'll bring in different people and different voices.
[00:42:22.190] - Joya
This person wants some scripts on how to go back to clients they've already converted once and ask for new business. What are some scripts that you've used in the past, Danielle, that you would pass on to this person?
[00:42:34.790] - Danielle
Absolutely. I think the first thing is going back to them and say, "Hey, it's been X amount of months, I just wanted to check in and I really enjoyed working together and I'm so happy that you were happy with the results that we got." Whatever those results are, if there's any metrics or anything, always put those in there. If they gave you a testimonial, you can kind of throw that back at them a little bit and say, I really enjoyed this and you were such an amazing client and we worked so well together. I would love to know if there's additional ways that I might be of service to you or what would be better is if you present something specific to them. Is there something specific that you want to do for them that you think they need? And you can suggest that as well. So obviously it depends on what this person does. But I always think it's good to go back and say that you are happy with the work that we did. We have this lovely relationship, I enjoyed it and I'd love to continue that. I'd love to create further success for you. Can I be of service or are their future projects?
[00:43:39.650] - Joya
Is there a way to gracefully make that ask on social is what this next person's question is.
[00:43:46.490] - Danielle
Yeah, I would probably nurture it before I would make the initial ask. Right. So like maybe one or two outreaches on social. So if you want to reach out to them on LinkedIn and if you're not connected with them for whatever reason, I have found that sometimes with clients. I've been working with clients for years and one day I'm like, how are we not connected on LinkedIn? Send them a connection and say, "oh my God, this is so crazy, we're not connected." Right? So if you're not connected, it's a really great way to connect and say, "oh my God, we did this project. How do we never connect? Just wanted to check in and see how you are doing, follow up, blah, blah, blah." And then when they respond, then you can potentially the next iteration make the ask. If you are connected, I also just think it's, "hey, I saw you posted something and it reminded me of the project that we did and I just wanted to circle back and see if there was anything else I might be able to help you with. Are you looking for a refresh or X, Y and Z?"
[00:44:40.210] - Danielle
But I think yeah, go ahead because it may be personally into something that they've said or posted is always the easiest way.
[00:44:46.910] - Joya
Final question. This person has just transitioned out of corporate. So in other words, they never had to go and hunt for a book of business, but now they have to build a book of business. It's the difference between surviving and going back to another job where you're building somebody else's dream. So when somebody is so fresh and new to this whole process, it can feel very overwhelming. What would be the first baby step you would recommend to someone like that?
[00:45:10.910] - Danielle
The first baby step is figuring out your brand and your brand message, right? Because you can't go out and hunt for business if you don't know who you are, what you do, and who you serve. So I think that's the very first piece is to find someone to help you if you haven't already or to really just flesh out your brand positioning and figure out what are you going to offer people and your differentiator and get your voice down. And then you can start I would say start with your family and friends. Let people know, send out an email. That's what I did when I first left corporate. Hey, I'm going out on my own. I'm now a freelance copywriter. Here's what I can do for you. If you know anyone, I would love for you to spread the word and I think you start with the people that know, like and trust you and go ask them for help. Help is not a four letter word when you are starting your own business, it is the most vital tool you can have. There is no shame in asking for help. Start asking people who you admire.
[00:46:08.950] - Danielle
How did you start your business? Can I pick your brain? I would love to get some advice from you. So there's so many ways to use other people's experience and expertise to help you in your journey. And don't be ashamed to ask, but.
[00:46:22.080] - Joya
I think that some specificity around what kind of help you need inside of that conversation is important because I get a lot of folks who are like, "I'd like to pick your brain." Like, "well, that's great, but time is my biggest commodity as an entrepreneur. So I'd love for you to be more specific." What is a specific thing that you think I can help you with? And let's nail that down before we commit to a time because that's a lot of stuff that we could cover off on and if we only have 15 minutes I don't know if we're going to get to it all.
[00:46:48.680] - Danielle
100% and that's so smart, right? Unfortunately, not a lot of it. Everyone won't know necessarily what they want to ask from another person, but you can at least suggest oh, I see that you do x, Y and Z. I would love to know how did you do that, or what's your biggest tip? And say something that again, shows that you've done your research.
[00:47:11.150] - Joya
Danielle it has been great spending the morning with you. What would you share in closing to anyone? Amy is on the line. Tanya's on the line. Zena is on the line. What's the last thing that you would say to women leaders who are trying to get new clients and recurring clients?
[00:47:26.090] - Danielle
I would say you are valuable, you are worthy, you are smart. And do not shy away from that. Lean into who you are. Lean into your awesomeness and go out and get what you deserve and what's yours for the taking and don't be shy about it and be unapologetic.
[00:47:46.760] - Joya
And if people want to work with you more than words copy is your website. That's where you can get a hold of Danielle. And I know that she's done more than just look at the copy on people's website. She's done a variety of things. And if you want to go back and look at this interview, it's going to be posted as soon as we finish up. If you want to work with me, I'm going to make the ask. I have a mastermind. Starting in January, I'm taking women. We're very clear on the goal that they've been kicking down the line for years. They're tired of seeing it not getting realized. They want to realize it. I will put the right group and I will put the right accountability so that you can see that inside of seven months. So if you would like to be part of that mastermind, I would love for you to just take this little quiz, which is @goalscorecard.com. It's a four minute quiz, and it'll tell me just how ready you are to get that goal. Danielle, we're going to grab a drink soon. I'm going to say thank you to you and I'll say I'll see you soon.
[00:48:39.930] - Danielle
I love it. Thank you so much, Joya. This has been great.
[00:48:42.600] - Joya
Take care. Bye.