Drink Like a Lady Podcast

Resilient Leadership with Dr. Taryn Marie

November 04, 2022 Joya Dass/Dr. Taryn Marie
Drink Like a Lady Podcast
Resilient Leadership with Dr. Taryn Marie
Show Notes Transcript

In times of volatile change, resilient leaders will be able to plan, adapt, and thrive.  Resilience is a key factor to the success of individuals and teams and helps to maintain a sense of mental well-being even in the midst of chaos.

Join us as we discuss the 5 Practices of Highly Resilient People. Find out which ones you may possess and which ones you and your team may need to cultivate:
1. Vulnerability
2. Productive Perseverance
3. Connection
4. Grati-osity (don't worry--join us and learn the meaning)
5. Possibility

Dr. Taryn Marie Stejskal (pronounced Stay-skull) is the Founder and Chief Resilience Officer (CRO) of Resilience Leadership Institute (RLI), she is recognized #1 international expert on resilience, mental health, and wellbeing in both leadership and life, whose mission is to positively impact the lives of 1 billion people, by enhancing hope, healing, and health as well as enhanced consciousness through the practices of resilience. Her work has been featured by Fox and NBC News, Bloomberg Business, Thrive Global, and Forbes. LA Progressive magazine calls her “the go-to person” and “a secret weapon” for people who want to find and maintain their edge as well as rise above the competition.

Her book entitled The Five Practices of Highly Resilient People: Why some flourish when others fold is set to release in March of 2023, and her online course, Flourish is available now!

Joya is currently enrolling members for international (Europe) and domestic (NYC) strategy days. She also leads a year-long intensive mastermind of C-Suite level women, which is accepting applications for 2024.



[00:00:40.100] - Joya

It's 02:00. Welcome, everyone, to the Drink Like a Lady podcast, where I say that I'm not only getting you a seat in the boardroom, I'm also getting you a seat at the bar. And my guest today is Dr. Taryn Marie, who has had a huge career in executive leadership. And I just want to establish that before we get into your five practices of highly resilient people, welcome.

[00:01:03.600] - Taryn

Thank you so much. It is a joy and an honor to be here with you.

[00:01:07.880] - Joya

Thank you. I mean, let's just list the number of companies where you have been doing executive leadership, because I think that's important for everyone to know before we dive in.

[00:01:18.620] - Taryn

Yeah, well, thank you for that question. As a consultant and having led my own company, the Resilient Leadership Institute, I've basically worked inside of, you know, I'd say two thirds of the Fortune 500 at this point as a keynote speaker, as an executive coach, as a consultant. And prior to that, I was a management consultant for a number of years, which led me to Cigna, where I headed up global leadership development across our organization in 86 countries around the world. And then I had the opportunity to go out to Nike and lead executive leadership development for that iconic brand to look after our C suite. Mark Parker was our CEO at the time a couple years back. And then my team and I had the opportunity to really kind of look after the development, growth, maturation of our top 400 vice presidents and to lead, you know, talent, strategy, and succession planning there as well.

[00:02:21.030] - Joya

Amazing. Well, when you think about your time at, let's say, in Nike, what makes people excellent? When I think of my top values, they're adventure, they're beauty, they're freedom, and it's excellence. So what made some of those people at the top rung one of the top companies in the world excellent?

[00:02:40.200] - Taryn

Yeah, I love that question. And what I find, having traveled around the world and worked inside of some really incredible companies, is excellence is deeply connected to a relentless pursuit of intellectual curiosity, of enhancement, whether that's like getting incrementally better every day. I think there are those of us or those of us that have a part of ourselves that can become perfectionistic. And perfectionism, in my opinion, is the opposite of excellence. It's sort of a false excellence. It's something that tells us that if we pursue perfection, we're going to sort of create beautiful and meaningful things. And it's sort of a false goal because I think what happens for a lot of people, myself included, that have pursued perfection is it becomes so overwhelming that it's paralyzing and it causes procrastination and self doubt. And so when I think about this pursuit of excellence, I believe it's really about the relentless desire to get incrementally better at our craft or at ourselves, whether that's insight or self awareness just a little bit every day so it.

[00:04:22.470] - Joya

Sounds like it's the courage to still be seen, even though it's not perfect. It's the courage to still show up or put something out there. I was in a conversation about social media this morning, and some people don't put out social media because they're worried about what other people will say. But the default or the downside of that is that you're not being seen, and the perfectionism is getting the better of them. And I think it's actually worse for women.

[00:04:47.550] - Taryn

Yeah. Gosh, you said so many powerful things there that I'm thinking about a number of them. So, okay, so I want to unpack, or I'd love to unpack the courage to be seen. And is perfection the opposite of that, and is it worse for women? I'm going to start with the second one for women. My experience in our culture and what I've learned and read is that for us as women, the parameters for what gets to be acceptable or socially desirable are much more narrow than they are for men. Right? So beauty for women is much narrower. There's a much narrower age range. There's a much narrower body type. Men get older, they have gray hair, they get wrinkles, and they're rugged and established and worldly. Right? And as women, we don't yet sort of enjoy that expanded margin of beauty, I think broadly in Western society and across the planet. I think similarly, when we think about, you know, how we show up right, at work, we have a much narrower sort of range of behaviors that gets to be acceptable. Right. I'm sure you've talked about a lot of these, you know, a lot of these things.

[00:06:19.560] - Taryn

If we get a really passionate about something, maybe it's seen as emotional, right? So it's just about really kind of staying in this narrow lane. And so there's a really sort of iterative cycle, I think, of hearing from society or seeing in society that we have this narrow margin of bandwidth or performance and then responding to that within ourselves. And so I think one of the ways that many women and I'll speak from my perspective that I've dealt with that kind of narrow bandwidth is to try to be perfect, right. To realize whether I realized that was detrimental or not at the time. So I think we see a lot of a lot more women subscribing to perfectionism when I think, really, we get to pursue excellence. And then I think the second piece you talked about the ability to be seen. For me, that's a lot of things. I believe there's kernels of perfectionism in there for me. There's also, you know, and we'll get into this in a bit, but, like, one of the practices of the five practices of highly resilient people is vulnerability. And at its core, when I define vulnerability, having interviewed hundreds of people and collected thousands of pieces of data, vulnerability is about allowing our inside self, our thoughts, feelings and experience to as closely as possible match the outside selves that we share with the world.

[00:08:01.140] - Taryn

To have that level of congruence, that's vulnerability. And what vulnerability means then is the courage to have our inside self, our thought, feelings and experience, to be seen, to be seen and known. And if I just sort of tie that to perfectionism for a moment, I think there is a sense that rather than being vulnerable or rather than being authentic, when we step out in social media, it somehow needs to be perfect because people are going to judge it.

[00:08:35.970] - Joya

It's our A game. It's never a B game. When we're crawled up in a corner crying because the day didn't go as well as we had planned. Well, since you've already touched on it, why don't we dive right in? The five practices of highly resilient people and vulnerability is the number one hallmark or best practice. So why is that the case? Why does that lend itself to resilience?

[00:08:58.480] - Taryn

It's such a great question. So to give you a bit of backstory on this, this all started two decades ago for me when I was in graduate school and I saw people that had had brain injuries and spinal cord injuries coming into my office. I was working in an outpatient clinic at an academic medical hospital and seeing people that had had neurological injury. And so I'd look at their file or their chart, and I'd look at them, and many of them had had their injury months or even years before. And what I realized was the prognosis that these people had received was not accurate. Oftentimes they were doing better than we thought, or some weren't doing as well as we had imagined. And it got me thinking about, like, what are the factors that are happening in these people's lives that when they're discharged from the hospital, we think something's going to happen, and they come back months or years later and something else has happened. Either they've gotten much better or they haven't gotten as well as we had anticipated. And so if I just sort of fast forward through that piece, what we found was having access to reliable transportation.

[00:10:11.180] - Taryn

And this is in the early 2000s, before uber and Lyft and this kind of thing, right? Was the single biggest predictor of what we call a positive rehabilitation, you know, or meeting their prognosis. And it got me thinking, okay, transportation for people then became transformative. Right? Because what we were finding is access to transportation was, statistically speaking, the difference between living in an assisted care facility and living independently. And so I thought, okay, if transportation is transformative, are there common threads for all of us that when we inevitably face challenge, change and complexity. And I'll call this the three c's, right? Are there common threads that when we do a certain thing that's going to create a more positive and productive outcome? So now I've interviewed hundreds of people, collected thousands of pieces of data, interviews, podcasts, read stories, documentaries. And what this has lended itself to is the empirical model or framework, the five practices of highly resilient people. So I asked people, what was it in the moment, right, when you faced a challenge that you did that you believe created a more positive outcome? And from that we have the five practices.

[00:11:39.410] - Taryn

And so the first practice of vulnerability for me, that was both surprising and it was convicting. Because surprising because like so many people, I had thought that vulnerability was the opposite of resilience. And I still hear that in the keynote speaking that I do and the consulting. It's like, you know, I thought I was supposed to be tough on, I thought I was supposed to be unmoved, unchanged by my experience. So it's surprising in that way. And it was convicting, because I had led my life focused on being invulnerable, right? As a woman, as a woman in leadership. I was like, oh, crap, now I gotta undo all this stuff and let people see who I truly am. And so vulnerability is that practice. It's about allowing our inside self, our thoughts, feelings and experience, to match the outside self that we share with the world. Well, why is that so hard? If Brene Brown says that being vulnerable is good for us, shouldn't we all just be running around living our most fabulous vulnerable lives? And what I learned is there's a little something called the vulnerability bias and what the vulnerability bias tells us.

[00:12:59.790] - Taryn

It's like a hardwired kind of way of thinking in our mind. And it says if you think it's a good idea to be known or seen, whether that's in person or on social media, the three L's will occur. People won't like you, they won't love you, and they might leave. And we're like, whoa, vulnerability bias, that's like a big risk. So let me not do that. Let me sort of back away from vulnerability and just stay in my vulnerability cage, you know, kind of wrapped in a nice layer of perfection. And so what vulnerability requires of us and one of the reasons that it's so scary is because we get to challenge that irrational fear, right? And to allow ourselves to be known and seen in incrementally greater ways that helps us appreciate that, in fact, that isn't what happened. Even though that's what the irrational fear of the vulnerability bias would have us believe.

[00:13:56.640] - Joya

But how does it make us more flexible in dealing with all the challenges that come with leadership?

[00:14:03.300] - Taryn

Yeah, so vulnerability is really powerful. I think when we face challenge, change and complexity, or the three C's, it's really powerful for two reasons in particular. One is when we're feeling some kind of way inside, but then on the outside, we have another persona. We're running two human operating systems. Right? I'm running like, what's actually happening for me and then I'm impression managing on the outside. Well, any of us who have faced challenge, change and complexity, which is all of us know that, like, that in itself is an exhausting experience. And so then on top of that, when we're trying to run two different human operating systems, we're really burning a lot of energetic and emotional capital. So the first way that vulnerability helps us when we face challenge is by burning less energy, when we can bring those two and operating systems closer together. The second way is that when we allow ourselves to be vulnerable, what that does is it opens us up to having greater support, more information, more guidance, more people that can come around us and say, oh, you're launching a new product. Well, we launched a new product last year.

[00:15:24.740] - Taryn

Let me give you some of our insights. Oh, you're in the midst of an IPO. Well, I've got people that helped us with us. Let me connect you with those people. So now we start to get the resources, the support of others when we're gracious and generous enough to show up in that vulnerability.

[00:15:43.400] - Joya

And it takes real courage. I teach public speaking because I've been a news anchor for so long, and I know that I am really pushing the envelope when I'm asking people to dig deep into those personal stories because they come in saying, well, I have nothing to say. Like, what am I going to say that somebody else hasn't said? I'm like, well, it's your personal stories. You can talk about being a vegan blogger, but it's going to be your own unique approach and your unique stories to being a vegan blogger that are going to make it unique to you. So I love that. The next point that you have is productive perseverance. I'm definitely somebody who perseveres. I consider myself pretty productive. But what does it mean when these two words are put together?

[00:16:25.290] - Taryn

Yeah, I love that. So the second thing that I found when I interviewed people about what allowed them to effectively face challenge, change and complexity is they talked about what I now call, or we now call productive perseverance. What people told me was they didn't just put their head down and pursue a goal, right? And, you know, they were willing to continue to toil toward a particular outcome despite the fact that they faced challenge. Right? So what's emerged is productive perseverance, which is the art and the science of continuing to pursue a goal even in the face of challenge, and to be able to pivot in another direction in the face of diminishing returns. And this is really powerful because I think we've been really steeped in this idea of grit. Right. And grits amazing, right. I love Angela Duckworth's work, and I think it's only part of the story because grit works really, really well when the environment and the landscape is going to stay pretty stable. Right. If you want to be a Navy Seal, if you want to graduate from the Naval Academy, if you want to win the spelling B, right?

[00:17:38.000] - Taryn

These are all things that, like, we have structure and process in place that is going to create expectation around the particular elements of that goal that you're going to check off along the way. But then we think about how our environment has been shifting and changing in such a significant way in the last couple of years. So if we were to just put our head down and say, we're going to launch this product, we're going to innovate on this particular element of how we interface with our customers and we don't continue to look around and to survey our environment for disruptions, for trends, for ways that things are pivoting, for deviations from how we thought our product market fit was going to evolve. As an example, we can really miss our moment, because we haven't stayed connected with those external forces. So it's about being willing to pursue goals even in the face of challenge, and also a willingness to be flexible and agile, to pivot in a new direction when we recognize that there are some diminishing returns.

[00:18:53.830] - Joya

I was reading a Harvard Business Review article yesterday that took the example of Ernest Shackleton, who climbed Everest, and what were the lessons, leadership lessons that we learned? And if you were to form a team where the job description was to say severe weather, maybe some fame, extreme conditions, what would be the top quality of the team that you would want? And I picked grit. And ironically, the top attribute should have been attitude. So I feel like that's productive perseverance. And Ernest Shackleton's example. Connection. Go ahead. Connection is number three of the five practices of highly resilient people.

[00:19:39.980] - Taryn

Yeah, well, I was just going to say going back to choosing a team to be in extreme weather conditions. Something that I think is really important when we think about productive perseverance is having someone in the room who is willing to surface or speak to what no one else is saying or is afraid to say. Right? So I call this like having a Mr. Miyagi in the room. If you're a Karate Kid fan or maybe it's a yoda, the variety of things you can call this person. But really anointing someone else in the room because it's an uncomfortable place to be in. Right. But anoint someone in the role can change over time, whose sole kind of contribution is to unpack the things that aren't being said or to identify the risks that are tough to look at.

[00:20:33.830] - Joya

I love that because the expedition that he did before climbing Everest was on a ship and he decided, as he was going towards the Antarctic, to keep going into the ice flows, even though he was warned against it by fishermen and people that regularly traversed those waters. And sure enough, his ship got stuck in the ice and so above taking inventory of food, water rations, anything else. He really committed to keeping morale high and motivation high by engaging everyone at every minute that they were waiting for those ice flows to break. And so I think that speaks a lot to the culture, is something that he doubled down on above all the survival mechanisms. So I thought that was really interesting. The connection, which is your sure does your third high practice of highly resilient people.

[00:21:27.000] - Taryn

Yes. Well, I love what you just shared there. I think it's a beautiful transition to talk about the external connection right? That he had with his team and keeping people engaged, allowing people to feel valuable, to have a voice, to be part of the decisionmaking process. When we think about connection, let's say nine times out of ten, we go to external connections, right? And that is part of the practice of connection. But what I also heard from people when I was interviewing them about how they effectively faced challenge, change and complexity was the internal connection that they had with themselves, right? The ability to know their sense of strength in that moment of the challenge, to trust their intuition, to know their worth and value, to allow their instincts to guide them. And so when we think about the third practice of connection in terms of the five practices of highly resilient people, it's first and foremost about cultivating that connection with ourselves. Our worth, our value, our intuition, believing in ourselves, selfconfidence, all those beautiful things. And then to build on that internal connection within how we connect externally, right, in terms of Shackleton and other great leaders.

[00:22:49.610] - Taryn

And the sort of paradox that exists here is then for all of us, how we navigate the connection with ourselves alongside this external connection with others, especially when those two connections are at odds. And I'd love to just give you a tangible example of this that emerged for me when I was speaking virtually in the pandemic for about a year and a half or close to two years. I decided to start doing like a short survey on each of these practices for like audience engagement when I was giving keynotes. And I have multiple choice questions for each practice. And for the practice of connection, I said, "Imagine that you've been invited to an event that occurs after work and you don't want to attend the event, yet people will be disappointed if your presence is not there." And then I gave people four options for how they could respond to this. A, they could attend the event, right? B, they could attend the event, yet contract they would only stay for 2 hours or something like that. C, was they could attend the event, but then like make up an emergency, right? Like, ah, the babysitter got sick, I gotta go, right?

[00:24:03.770] - Taryn

A less authentic way of kind of getting out of it. And then D, was not attend the event. Okay? Just sort of a hypothetical moment that I invited people to step into and make a decision. About 65% of the people this is tens of thousands of people said they would attend the event even though they didn't want to go, even though they had two other options that would shorten their time there. I share this with you and with all of your listeners and with the show. Because this really for me drove home the intricacies of navigating the world, and having this connection to ourselves and how often it's so easy for us through pleasing. Through conditioning. Through wanting to show up and be the person that we think other people want to be. To silence the internal voice in favor of the external voices.

[00:25:09.050] - Joya

You know, with my members, I always ask a question of the week, and this week's question was, who do you want to create a relationship with or strengthen a relationship with? And one of my members responded with, well, I think the relationship with myself, because she's really struggling with leadership right now. And my response to that was, yeah, I think it's taking quiet time to really organize for that leadership, as opposed to always being in the reactive or always being in the tactical or always just solving other people's problems. I think it's a double vine because we as women are doers. And so when it comes to doing the strategic thing where we're letting our own voice bubble up to the surface and just be quiet, it's amorphous. There's no, like, bumper guards around this thing. There's no straight lines. And so I think people are more afraid of it. Or maybe they're afraid of what's going to bubble up if they do take that quiet time. So I love that you said that connection, because we just talked about that today. The next word to me reminds me of Netflix because it seems like a made up word, but gratiosity is that my pronouncing?

[00:26:13.280] - Joya

That right.

[00:26:14.030] - Taryn

I love it. Now, why does gratiosity remind you of Netflix?

[00:26:17.240] - Joya

Because it's a made up word. Netflix, when Reid Hoffman and I forget who Mark Randolph were going on their drives into Silicon Valley as they would every Monday to just brainstorm about their next big business idea, one of the ideas that they arrived at is that they wanted their company to be a made up word. So they knew they wanted it to be something that was on Netflix, and they knew they wanted it to have something to do with movies. And so Netflix became the title. So I'm wondering if gratiosity is something that you came up with? It's a made up word, but it's part of your lexicon.

[00:26:53.780] - Taryn

Well, it is a made up word. It's the first time I think I've been compared to Read Hoffman, and so I count that as a distinct compliment to be positively compared and aligned with the genius that he's created. And yes, as I spoke to hundreds of people about how they effectively face challenge, I was hearing two things that sounded similar and were sort of different concepts, but I wanted to really be able to reconcile because they were interwoven and interrelated. And so the first one, the gratty part of gratiosity, is gratitude, right? And so what I was hearing from people about how they effectively faced challenge was they would look on a particular experience that they had typically after some time, and even if they hadn't chosen the circumstance, they would say, I could see the good in that. I could see what came out of that that was unanticipated. I can be grateful for some of the ancillary experiences that I had, even though I wouldn't have chosen to go through that circumstance. And then the second part is the osity. It's generosity because people also talked about building on that foundational practice of vulnerability and being willing to share their resilient stories generously. In service of coaching others, mentoring others through town halls.

[00:28:33.430] - Taryn

And what this allowed for people to do in the practice of gratiosity was not only to point to the gratitude for the unexpected experiences, but two other important things happened. One, they solidified their own resilient story, right? It allowed them to give voice to how they had shown up in a really meaningful way that amplified their own sense of strength and internal wisdom. And the second part is the sharing of the resilient stories generously also lit the path or sort of paved the way for others to say, ah, like, what is my resilience story and what could I share? And it's been an invitation in a way that I think culturally we can invite people to come on this journey to engage their vulnerability and to learn to articulate or better articulate our resilient stories in such a way that we share generously for the benefit of ourselves and others.

[00:29:34.800] - Joya

When I think about my younger self, I think a lot of things were like, well, I did this, so you should do this. I had expectations of people and my grandmother, who lives in Calcutta and has never left, once said to me, "Stop having expectations of people who barely have expectations of themselves. They're never going to meet you where you're at to save yourself the disappointment." And that has freed me from a lot. But it's also done another thing, which is that I should keep showing up my generous self and doing what I want to do in my gut and not have expectations that it's going to come back. It'll come back sort of universally energetically in other ways, but I shouldn't show up anything less than the way that I feel compelled to be. And so I wonder what you thought about that.

[00:30:24.230] - Taryn

Well, I love what you shared there. Your grandmother just sounds like such a powerful woman, so full of fire and empathy. One of the things that's emerged for me as part of these interviews and creating this framework and also in my own life. As I remember, when I graduated from graduate school, it was, you know, 2008, right? So we are in this middle of this incredible economic downturn. I was planning to take, like, a faculty position at a hospital, and of course, no one was hiring. And so I was going around to various kind of contacts that I had in my network or people that I had been introduced to. And I sat down with a university professor, and I said, "What do you think I should do?" Right? And he talked to me about becoming a university professor. And I sat down with a clinician and a woman who owned her own practice. And I said, "What do you think I should do?" And she talked me about how I could own my own practice and be a clinician, right? And so on. And for me, that experience really mirrors, in a way, what you're saying, which is one we can't expect that people can give us directions or guideposts in our lives because it's a journey they've never been on.

[00:31:44.630] - Taryn

People can only tell us about their journey. Right. And then we get to decide, you know, if and to what extent that resonates for us. And the second thing is when we offer our resilience stories or we offer our experience, it's a beautiful, generous offer. And to your point, we only have the set of experiences that we've had the opportunity to delve into in our lives. And so anyone that we ask advice from is going to be limited in some way by the span of experiences that they've been exposed to.

[00:32:26.000] - Joya

Yeah. So, great. Possibility for folks who are tuning in today. I'm in conversation with Dr. Taryn Marie on the five practices of highly resilient people. And I bet you have questions. If you do, please put them in the comments, and I promise to ask them at the end. But we are on number five sorry, number four, which is possibility. How does that tie back to resilience and leadership?

[00:32:50.870] - Taryn

Yes. Actually, possibility is number five, graduates, four possibilities, five it's easy to I'm sorry, lose track. Don't worry. In such an engaging conversation. So possibility is the fifth practice of highly resilient people. And what I found was when people were in the midst of challenge. You know, you and I, in sort of a private conversation prior to this show, we talked about how some people view the world from a place of a place of fear. Right? And possibility is about any time we face a challenge or a change or a complexity, the three C's that there's sort of this polarity from which we can view that circumstance. We can see it as an opportunity, and we can also see it as a risk. Right. And what I saw was that the people that were creating the most. Positive and productive outcomes when or after facing challenge, were able to effectively sort of balance and navigate the tension between risk and opportunity. Right. The tension between fear and faith. Right. The tension between scarcity and abundance. Right. And so possibility, first and foremost, going back to our conversation about perfection is about focusing on progress, even if it's incremental progress over perfection, and then how we effectively evaluate and navigate right.

[00:34:24.230] - Taryn

Sort of the relationship between opportunity and risk in any given moment of challenge.

[00:34:33.900] - Joya

What would be a way for someone to engage with you? I want to share with our audience the Resilience Leadership website, which is your website. What are some of the resources that people are going to find to be able to take this conversation and move it beyond just you and me?

[00:34:49.970] - Taryn

Sure. One of my visions for this work is to positively impact the lives of 1 billion people through the five practices of highly resilient people. And in order to do that, what my team and I have recognized is we get to sort of have this multichannel approach and we want to give away a lot of our work for free so that there isn't like a financial exchange to have access to the five practices, how you can work with these practices, how they can influence and even transform your life. And so on the website you'll find links to the podcast, Flourish or Fold: Stories of Resilience. This is where I interview people, well known people, and they have an opportunity to share their lesser known resilient stories that challenge, change, and complexity that happened behind the scenes for them on their journey to become an elite athlete, an actor, a musician. So easy for us to look at people up on the screen or the player on the field and say, well, they must have gotten there because their path was made clear. And so it's really an opportunity to demonstrate that challenge, change, and complexity is an inherent part of all of our lives and to encourage people that when we experience these things, it's not the period, the end of the sentence, but really the comma, the invitation to ask us if we want to keep going.

[00:36:21.350] - Taryn

So you'll find episodes of Flourish or Fold: Stories of Resilience podcast. You'll find all kinds of articles and blogs that I've written on the five practices individually, holistically, applications to relationships, to leadership. We've also got a number of sort of products there that people can engage with. A meditation bundle we're putting out. Our online course is available. This is an asynchronous course people can do from the comfort of your own home to be able to dive deeper into the five practices and to receive direct coaching and teaching from me. So just a lot of resources that are available there at the website.

[00:37:09.270] - Joya

I'm intrigued by the meditation. I would love to check that out. Thank you. Dr. Taryn Marie. It was really great for us to be able to chat about this. I'm thinking about the US. Open, which is the one sporting event that I attend in New York City every single year. Not the Mets, not the Yankees, not football. And I always think about when I'm sitting in Arthur Ashe Stadium, looking at the finals, about the excellence that I'm bearing witness to. For these people to be able to come this far. The amount of sacrifice, amount of training, the amount of mental strength it takes to be able to be in that center court and do this thing is tremendous to me. And that's what I always think about when I'm there at that sporting event, more than anything. And I feel like that speaks to your final point.

[00:37:55.500] - Taryn

I think it does, yeah. Yeah.

[00:37:58.710] - Joya

Well, I'm going to put up my email there for anyone who wants to get in touch with me. And if you want to work with me, I have a mastermind for eight wonderful women who are deep and thoughtful and want to build a personal brand in the next year that is going to be the majority of our work. And, Taryn, as you and I were talking, next year's adventure, which I lead by way of adventure, is going to be a villa in Tuscany. You are welcome to join us. Thank you so much today.

[00:38:25.580] - Taryn

Thank you for having me. It was a joy and an honor to be here with you and what a delight. I loved our conversation.

[00:38:32.700] - Joya

Take care.