6 Tips for Having Agency Over Your Life with Alka Joshi

In this talk, you will learn to: Be disciplined about your 'me' time. Learn to say 'no'. Buck convention. Go it alone. Try new things. Say 'yes' to new experiences. Embrace the lessons, rather than fight them. Be kind to yourself. If you make a mistake, move on take stock of your values so you can prioritize. I'm in conversation with author Alka Joshi, author of the "Henna Artist" and "The Secret Keeper of Jaipur." It's fascinating trilogy that is a Reese Witherspoon Bookclub Pick and set to become a Miramax TV production.

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Transcript

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Agency with Alka Joshi

[00:00:00] Joya: That has now become a Reese Witherspoon Book Club pick, and it's set become a Miramax TV production. But her professional avatar is that she is owner and director of a PR and ad agency. And that is where I'd like to start, Alka. How does one find themselves deciding that that's going to be their career trajectory?

[00:00:19] Alka: You know, it was all circuitous. And I think that that's probably how most of our careers are formed. We're not told at the time that we're in college that, uh, you know, by the way, your life is going to take a lot of different directions and that's perfectly okay because it's like a water flow, but no, we are told you know, you're going to get this BA and then you're going to do that job for the rest of your life. Well, I always wanted to be creative, so I didn't know what I wanted to do. Like I knew I didn't want to go to business school. I knew I didn't want to go to law school or medical school. So I was looking around and I wasn't in a hurry to get married because I didn't want children.

And so I thought, well, what am I going to do with myself? Well, uh, I got a degree in art history because there was a year at Stanford where you could go to Florence and study if you were majoring in art history. And I thought, oh, I want to go to Florence for a year. So I did that and I majored in art history, just thinking that I'm just going to be an artist or I'm going to live the artist life, or I'm going to maybe be a curator at a museum and so on.

And, you know, I tried a bunch of those kinds of things and I wasn't either that talented or that interested in them. So eventually I realized, Hey, you know, I think I want to do is, uh, go into advertising because I, I always had lots of ideas in my head about things that could be different or things that I could do.

So why don't I try that? And, uh, so I went into, uh, the seventh floor of McCann Erickson and I had sent a portfolio ahead of time. Now I have no family that is in the creative arena at all. No artists, no, no advertisers, not nobody. I didn't know a soul. So I sent off this portfolio to four different major firms in San Francisco.

And I said, um, ostensibly, this letter that came to them was from my older brother. And my older brother was saying. Please give Alka an opportunity to talk to you, uh, because she's 28 years old and she has forgotten to get married and forgotten to have children. If you don't give her an interview, we might have to take care of her for the rest of her life.

And, uh, through that, I got all four interviews. I could not believe it, but, uh, I was on the seventh floor, McCann Erickson being interviewed by two creative directors. And they said to me, they looked at my portfolio and they said, um, Don't you want to be a writer? I said, no, I want to be an art director.

And they said, well, listen, we don't have any positions available for art direction, but you obviously know how to write because your portfolio shows us that. So we'll hire you as a writer and we'll try you out for 30 days. Let's see if this works. You know, this is not the way to get a job. I think for most people that this is, this was a way in for me.

And I thought at the end of 30 days, I'm going to show them that I'm going to make a great art director, even though they're hiring me as a writer, but at the end of 30 days, you know, they were right. I really just enjoy writing. I just loved copywriting and writing commercials and radio commercials and, you know, all kinds of things that we ended up doing.

And I love that. So that's really how I went into writing and I started as a copywriter. And then after 10 years of working, uh, at major firms, like that. I just thought, you know what? I'm not getting ahead. I am put in this box, this box says, okay, you're a junior copywriter or, you know, you're a woman, so you get to have these female projects.

Uh, you don't get to have the male projects, you know, the, the money projects, the big kahunas. And I saw all the boys in the offices next to me getting paid $20,000 more than I was paid, and what I was getting paid and I would go to my, uh, personnel director and my bosses and, you know, and I would say, Hey, what gives, you know, I, I worked just as hard as they do.

I bring in clients, you know, clients respond to my work. Why aren't I getting paid as much? And they would say, oh, you're too ambitious. You're too, you're asking for too much. Uh, and you know, this is, this is in the eighties. So this is like Mad Men, uh, type of, uh, in our reactions in advertising. And, uh, so finally I got really tired of being told no, no, no. And I thought if I go to work by myself. What is it that I need? If I start my own agency, what ha how much capital do I need? What kind of people who might, uh, do I need to talk to, how will I get my first clients? I made a list of all the things I needed and then systematically, I went through one by one, figuring out what I needed to do.

And then ever since then I've had my own agency, my own schedule, my own, everything. And in that first year I went from making, what was it like $50,000 a year working for somebody else to making $400,000. So that to me was a huge, uh, starting point for me to realize that yes, you know, I, I had a feeling that I could do all of that, but nobody else was believing in me and I couldn't wait for everybody else to believe in me.

I had to believe in myself. 

[00:04:56] Joya: I love that. You went and took a class in creative writing at the age of 51. What does, what, what was the tipping point you'd already been writing? Why go take a creative writing class? 

[00:05:06] Alka: There was a 2008 mortgage recession. I'm sure everybody remembers that it was huge. And you were probably a financial analyst at that point or a reporter at the CNN, so you know all about it. Right. Um, so Joya, I was, uh, anticipating that for at least two years, my business would go down. Uh, everybody was suffering at that time. I think a lot of people were actually laying people off. So I thought, okay, what am I going to do? Uh, and my husband had always said, you know, honey, I think you could write novels.

I know you can write novels. And I would say, no, no, no, I do advertising. That's all I do. I'm an advertising hack; I do PR I do marketing. I'm a hack. And he would say, I think you're way more than you're giving yourself credit for. And so I thought, okay, I've got two years. This master's program in creative writing is a two year program at the least I will come out with.

Uh, at, you know, understanding a little bit more about how to write my marketing brochures and my websites, and maybe gain some creativity there. Um, but at the most maybe I could start a novel and finish it and make sure that I, um, steady with the kind of instructors who have written something kind of similar to what I want to write and if they have then maybe just, maybe they will send it off to their literary agent.

And the latter is exactly what happened. 

[00:06:28] Joya: I love that. Now you've written three books and your character much like yourself has not tread the path, traditional. Uh, Um, it has lived life on her own terms. And I, and I thought as you were talking about it, that she's a flawed character. She made some good choices. She made some bad choices, but the thing that struck me the most and that tees up our conversation day is that she had agency, agency over her life, not an ad agency.

So just to tee it up before we go into your six tips on having agency, why make a semi-autobiographical? 

[00:07:04] Alka: You mean, you mean these novels? Um, because I wanted to authenticate, details that I remembered from my past as a child growing up in India, in Rajastan. Uh, vacationing with my family up in Shimla, uh, in the, in the cooler climates, um, and also, uh, you know, going into jewelry shops in India, uh, going to the pink city Bazaar and, you know, getting goods there from one vendor and another.

Um, and the reason that I had to authenticate it with real life details is because I knew what people would think they would say. You haven't lived in India since you were nine years old. So, um, what gives you the right to talk about India? What gives you the right to set these novels in India? And I have read novels before where it didn't really feel like I was actually in the setting and I wanted to make sure my readers felt as if they were immersed in the setting.

And so I made many trips to India. I talked to a lot of people, including my parents and my relatives, everybody who was alive during the fifties and then the sixties and then the seventies. Uh, and you know, I, I, I just, I read a lot of fiction around that time. Uh, that took place around that time. And I also watch a lot of movies around that time, and I wanted very much to cover all of my bases so that nobody would say this isn't real, this doesn't feel real.

And, uh, luckily I've accomplished that. 

[00:08:30] Joya: And now that you've birthed these three books to the world, what would you say has been the biggest reaction? 

[00:08:36] Alka: Um, the reaction has been really, uh, it was a reawakening of my own, uh, beliefs about life that I was able to incorporate in my novels and then a reawakening of my love for my birth nation and my heritage.

And, um, those are, I think, two other reasons I didn't start off wanting to write for those reasons, but that's exactly what ended up happening. Um, so in my journey, uh, I had this amazing, um, Uh, sort of, you know, realization that the only reason when I was an immigrant to the United States in 1967, the only reason that I kept getting replayed the misperceptions of India, that everyone was always throwing at me, uh, was that they didn't know any better.

Uh, the history books in America did not cover things, like why India was left in tatters at the time that the British left, uh, uh, at the time of Independence in 1947, why were so many industries having to be rebuilt? Um, why were the Indian people, uh, willing to take up this mantle and say, you know what? We are resilient.

We can, we can do this. We can establish our own country again with our own policies, our own education systems and so on. So I had this real awakening and I thought I can pepper, uh, this story with it. In fact, it's going to be a lot more meaningful to me if I can bring that kind of information and knowledge to the public.

And then the other thing that happened. Uh, was this, uh, idea that, um, you know, I, I, I, I have these beliefs. I have beliefs in women. I believe that women are far more resilient and far more capable than men are. I'm sorry, but I just do, I just have that, uh, opinion after watching so many women at work and outside of work for so many years.

And, um, I have been in those meetings where, you know where I've made a point, and then five minutes later, a man has made exactly my point. And all of a sudden, everybody thinks he's got a brilliant idea and I'm like, Hey, I'm sitting here at the table too. I just came up with that idea. What are you talking about? So, um, I've also been, you know, in that kind of a situation where I just think, you know, women deserve more agency, they deserve to talk about, uh, themselves.

They deserve to have more um, recognition for the kinds of contributions that they make. So the, all of the women in my stories, and there are so many different kinds of women, women who want to work outside the home or inside the home women who want children, don't want children, uh, you know, women who, uh, really feel that they've got it all and women who feel like they've got nothing at all.

So, um, in all of these women, I just explore the amount of agency that they have in their lives. You know, how much of, um, uh, you know, how much are they given in terms of power and also how much power do they end up taking for themselves? 

[00:11:40] Joya: Let's get into point number one. So one of the things that you say about having agency is being disciplined about your me time and learning to say no. Why is that so difficult for women?

[00:11:53] Alka: I think because women are the caretakers of their families. And so women are constantly thinking who's birthday is coming up? Uh, am I feeding everybody, uh, what I need to be feeding them in order for my whole family to stay healthy? Uh, have my children done their homework?

Has my husband taken his medication? I think that they're the ones who are so used to taking care of other people, that they automatically do that. And that fills up our days as women that just fills up all kinds of time that we could be using to explore what we really want to do in our lives. So I just think it's important for women to say enough, you know what?

You can take your own medication, you know what? You can do your own homework. You know what I, you know, I, I am not the keeper of all of these flames. I am not going to do this anymore. Um, so, you know, I mean, at some point I just said to husband, I don't know who put me in charge of making sure we have dinner on the table every day, but I'm not doing it anymore.

There's no reason for me to do that. You know, I've got a busy life, you've got a busy life. Why can't one of us? Uh, you know, why can't we take turns? Why can't you just make the salads every day, you know, and I'll do this. So, um, there's a lot of negotiating that we have to do. 

[00:13:02] Joya: Is there a time that you said no? And you're glad that your business was better for it, or you are better for it?

[00:13:08] Alka: Oh, yeah. I had a situation where, uh, I had a client in a very large, uh, uh, you know, high-tech company and he had hired me to do a job and I had started it, but I always asked for, uh, 50% of the deposit upfront. And for some reason, because I had done many projects for this company, I sort of let him slide a little bit, three months go by and I still don't have any income.

I've been invoicing, but I'm not seeing any income. So I, um, finally I had a meeting with him and I just said, you know, I can not do any more work until you pay me for my first invoice. I'd already sent you a couple of emails about that. And he said what? He said, you're not going to do any work. If I don't give you a check like today, and I said, you don't work for free.

And I don't either, you know, and, and I'm okay. I'm willing to let work go. Uh, if I have, if I know that, uh, you know, my client has integrity and they're honoring my contract, so I actually did let that one go. I did eventually get paid, uh, and I had to go up to his bosses in order to get that check. Um, and you know, it didn't feel good, but I thought it's more important for me to hold onto what I really feel is important. And I respect myself. I need to get paid for what I have just done. Uh, I would have finished the project if the guy had had more integrity, but he didn't. So I was happy to let that go. And it was so much better for me rather than stewing every night and thinking, why am I doing this work?

Why am I not getting paid? I think we, women spend way too much time stewing over things instead of just being very direct and saying, okay, this is, this is the lay of the land. 

[00:14:48] Joya: Number two is to buck convention. Go it alone. 

[00:14:52] Alka: I think that when everybody is going in one direction, you should go in another, these are my business cards, by the way, and my tagline is be bold. And in the back of the business card, it says, take chances, talk loudly, turn left, act differently. Be first and laugh last. So, um, this is, you know, this is like, for me, it's very important to not go in the same direction that everybody else is going. So if I was given a project and said, okay, we need to sell X number of widgets. Uh, for this, uh, department, I would turn that advertising campaign into something they haven't even expected. Something that wasn't, uh, you know, the run of the mill kind of thing that they were used to. And I do the same thing with the way I dress. I do the same thing with the way I just lead my life. I just, you know, I refuse to look like everybody else, cause I, I'm not going to do that. You know? Uh, I think that there is more to be gained by figuring out who you are as a person and being your independent self every time. 

[00:15:51] Joya: Try new things and say yes to new experiences. Maryanne and I were on a call earlier today and she said in her first year of business just said yes to everything. Like you were saying, say yes to new experiences and try new things. 

[00:16:05] Alka: Yeah. Yeah, for example, I'd never would have become a, you know, an author. If I hadn't said yes to this MFA program, if I hadn't said yes to my mentor saying, you know what, I got some changes I'd really like you to make in this. And then I'll send it off to my literary agent and then saying yes to my literary agent.

You know, I think I'd like you to cut out every other chapter in the book. They're just not working for you. You need to pare this down. So with our, all of these, uh, new skills that I've just learned, every new experience has brought a whole new set of, uh, yes, answers that I've had to give. And, uh, I, I, my work has gotten better for it.

My work has become so much better. Uh, I am now, uh, at about 600 book clubs that I have attended on zoom in the last 18 months. All because I said, yes, yes, I will talk to you. Yes. I know you need connection. Yes. I know you're reading my book and I thank you so much. I am so grateful to you. So, um, yes, I would like to make that happen.

[00:17:07] Joya: And when you say, can you give us an example in your story? Like the time that you said yes, I guess this would be the counterpoint to when you said no, you said yes. And you're better for it. Like you, you, it gave you the agency 

[00:17:21] Alka: that you needed at that moment. Um, okay. Uh, I think it was, um, I think, I think, I think it was when, uh, I think one of my friends at a dinner, this is back when I was still working at, um, agencies and, uh, I was talking to him over dinner and he said, uh, would you be happier if, you know, working for yourself and had your own clients that you really picked, you know, you cherry picked your clients. And I said, yes, I would. And he said, well then why don't you, why don't you? And, uh, and also I, I said at that point, well, if I were to go off on my own, could I make a presentation at your company? And he said, of course. And that was like, oh my gosh, that was, that was my very first pitch. That was an amazing thing to have. 

[00:18:14] Joya: Way to work. The dinner party embraced lessons rather than fight them. What is a time that you had a lesson and you embraced it instead of fighting? 

[00:18:25] Alka: Um, you know, let me go back to that one example about that client who wasn't paying me. So one lesson I learned from that is, listen, do not veer from your business practices. You said you always want 50% deposit upfront. Don't get started without it. You know, that was your, uh, process before. Why not just keep that process and then you won't get into this trap again, because you know, those kinds of things that happen are uncomfortable and they make us feel somehow that it's our fault. And I think it's probably just best to, um, to just, uh, you know, say I got to move on. Okay. I've learned something from this. I made a mistake. I made a mistake. I've got to move on. I've got to accept what happened and, and, uh, you know, not beat myself up. Cause it's so easy to beat ourselves up. 

[00:19:12] Joya: Why do we have such a hard time being kind to ourself? And this is your next point on having agency. Were some of us, many of us type -A personalities, hard drivers in what we do for a living. Why is being kind to ourselves so difficult. 

[00:19:27] Alka: I think it's because, um, we are wanting the best of ourselves.

We are so hard on ourselves. We want that A+, we want the extra credit. We want the recognition. We want all of those things and we know we're capable of getting all of those things. So I think that so much of this has to do with um, you know, ourselves, it's that self motivation, uh, that wants to get us there.

And then every time we do accomplish something, we get so many kudos. Right. Everybody around us says, oh my God. Great job. That is fantastic. You just, you just really knocked that out of the park. Uh, and so we, we get, we get, um, addicted to that. We get addicted to all the positive praise. And I think at some point we just have to say to ourselves, even if I don't get positive praise, I will survive this day and I will be a good person regardless.

[00:20:19] Joya: And your final point before we turn it over to questions is to take stock of your values. So you can prioritize, decipher that statement before we get into what that means.

[00:20:32] Alka: Um, you know, taking stock of what you firmly believe in. Um, I. I firmly believe, uh, as I said, I think that women work really hard and I think they do a great job.

And I think that they deserve to be recognized. So when I started my agency, I only hired women. I only hired women to be my art directors, to be my writers, to be, you know, cause you got to walk the walk, you got to talk the talk. If that's what you believe, then you have to manifest that also for yourself.

You've got to know what your values are and then you've got to practice them.