The Fastest, Most Reliable System for Getting New Clients with Michael Port

The Fastest, Easiest, and Most Reliable System for Getting More Clients with Michael Port

I devoured Michael’s book Book Yourself Solid and I’m a little bit incredulous that Michael is here now two years later, speaking to all of you and to me.

One of the things that I wanted him to talk about was how you create a system for having a plethora of clients that you love to work with. Like I discussed in my previous blog post, some of us have had clients that we do not love to work with and we’ve had to fire them.

Here are 9 mindset shifts and actions that Michael Port revealed to help us set up our own systems for having a fountain of clients that we love.

This interview has been edited and abridged for time and readability.

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Transcript

[00:00:23.800] - Joya

This is a playlist from a guy I follow on medium. He published it and I was like, Oh, I like it. It left up to me. I would just play Kenny Loggins' I'm All Right on Patty Shack on Replay.

[00:00:42.860] - Michael

Well, one time through that might be manageable. On Replay, though? Not sure.

[00:00:48.140] - Joya

It's my song that wakes me up in the morning to get me to the gym at 6 AM. Here you go. My alarm.

[00:00:56.160] - Michael

We have some HPS playlists because we run events here, so we always have music on. We publish them on Spotify. Do you? So I.

[00:01:05.190] - Joya

Can look up Michael Port's playlist?

[00:01:07.860] - Michael

Well, I think you'd probably look up a row of public speaking rather than Michael Port.

[00:01:12.100] - Joya

But.

[00:01:15.080] - Michael

One of the things we do at a point in one of our programs is we do fashion shows so we can work on people's wardrobe for what they wear when they present. And so we've got a great playlist for that. Everyone walks, it's a cat walk. I'm always amazed. When you see an astronaut doing a towel or two doing a cat walk or a Navy seal, that definitely is something to write home about.

[00:01:46.940] - Joya

Something about being on that cat walk infuses something into people. It's true.

[00:01:53.190] - Michael

It really is.

[00:01:57.020] - Joya

I'm going to give it one more minute. We'll go ahead and get started.

[00:01:59.980] - Michael

My wife leaves her hairbands right here on the audio board in case she needs them. I'm still trying to figure out a use for them. I have.

[00:02:09.900] - Joya

One in my.

[00:02:10.940] - Michael

Hair right now. I don't have anything to work.

[00:02:14.260] - Joya

With. today is a boxing day, so I did not do my hair.

[00:02:18.360] - Michael

Oh, so you boxed at the gym today?

[00:02:20.730] - Joya

6 AM. Today we were on kicks, and I swear I was like, I'm dying. My hair is not getting done today. Welcome, everyone. As everyone's joining here, I'm going to turn off the Spotify. I decided to start playing a little bit of music to get people excited. I want to welcome Michael Port. Michael is someone who has been in my ether for at least a couple of years, and here's why. I had attended a New York Women in Business conference at the Jacobs Javits Center, obviously pre COVID, and one of the speakers talked about his book because really what was the impetus for her saying that is that how do you book clients and make sure that you've got a full dance card and you're never, ever wanting for anything else. And so I went home, I devoured Michael's book. And I'm actually a little bit incredulous that Michael is here now, two years later, speaking to all of you and to me. And one of the things that I wanted him to talk about was how you create a system for having just a plethora of clients that you actually love to work with, because we know that some of us have clients that we do not love to work with, and we've had to fire them.

[00:03:29.020] - Joya

So I give you Michael Port.

[00:03:31.180] - Michael

Well, thank you so much. It's lovely to be here.

[00:03:33.700] - Joya

Michael, where I wanted to start is that you've got six strategies. They're your core strategies on how you stay booked solid. And what are they?

[00:03:42.460] - Michael

Sure. So if I may, I'd like to address one big idea before I go into those details. So if you have a business, you want to book more of it. It's just that is what you do when you have a business. One of the things that I found when back in the early 2000s, when I first wrote Book Yourself Solid, was that most of the marketing education that I saw was focused on marketing tactics. I thought, Well, it seems like people are regularly running up against impediments to booking more business. But all of the marketing tactics are out there on display. We know what to do for the most part. Sure, there's new, shiny opportunities that come along every once in a while when there's some new technology. But for the most part, the core self promotion strategies are pretty consistent. So you've got networking, direct outreach, referral strategies, speaking strategies, writing strategies, and then web strategies. There's a lot you can do in each one of those different core self promotion strategies, but we've all done those strategies, but we don't always book the business that we want to book. So there's a problem.

[00:05:21.180] - Michael

There was something that just wasn't sitting right for me. What I discovered was that it's not the marketing that actually books your business. It's what you do once somebody becomes aware of you that actually books you the business. And when I started analyzing companies, I discovered that, oh, they've got lots of marketing activities in the works, and they're creating awareness, but they don't have a systematic approach to turning that awareness into actual business. Because ultimately, most of us would probably like to have a business where we no longer do any marketing whatsoever. That the business itself becomes a self perpetuating and self generating referral engine so that we're constantly bringing in more business because the work we do is remarkable. Rather than having to go out and shout at people about the work that we do, and then hopefully they'll come and hire us. I took a little bit of a different approach. So I said, well, we got to understand what these core self promotion strategies are. What's the most effective way to execute on them? And it's going to be different for each person because we should lean into the strategies or the tactics that we resonate with the most that allow us to call on our particular strengths.

[00:06:50.120] - Michael

If you don't want to write a lot, using writing as a promotional strategy is not particularly helpful. Or same thing for speaking, or if you don't want to spend a lot of time on the web doing a lot of web marketing is probably not for you. But I don't think you need to do all of these tactics. In fact, only three of them are really mandatory and three of them are optional. So I think from a mandatory, I think is networking, direct outreach and referral strategies. I just don't think you build a reputation in an industry without knowing people in the industry, without doing direct outreach of some kind, and without earning referrals from the work that you do. But writing, speaking, and web as a promotional tactic, I still think is optional. Yes, of course, you're always going to have to write something somewhere. And yes, you're always going to have to speak at some time in some way. And yes, you will have a website that you use as a direct response tool to get people to give you the opportunity to stay in touch with them and make sales offers that are proportionate to the amount of trust that you've earned.

[00:08:00.860] - Michael

But you don't have to become deeply engrossed in writing as a promotional strategy, speaking as a promotional strategy, or even web as a promotional strategy. You can do all of the promotion you want just through referrals. In fact, the business that I focus on now, heroic public speaking, we're an entirely referral based business. So we do almost no external marketing in the traditional sense because our alumni send us enough new leads to fill all of the events that we do and all the programs that we do. Now, that took a little while to get there, but I think that at the end of the day, your product does your marketing. And if people are not talking about the product that you deliver. I think all the marketing in the world is probably a waste of time.

[00:08:52.740] - Joya

Got it. So we've had this subject come up again and again. Sometimes people have clients and they're like, this person is really just draining a lot of my energy. Every time I see their name come up on the caller ID, I shudder because I don't want to talk to them. I know it's going to be a bunch of negotiating, a bunch of I want this, I want that. So what do you do when you have to cut a client?

[00:09:15.480] - Michael

Well, so first, I think is, let's recognize that there are certain people we're meant to work with and others, probably not so much. And just because we can help somebody doesn't mean we have to help them. But I think that this is something that each business owner comes to terms with at different points in their career. At the beginning of your career, if you feel like I'm just struggling to pay the bills, you might think it's really difficult to say no to a particular opportunity or to dump a dodge client who is just draining your energy, makes you feel like your work isn't worthwhile and wonder why you got into this in the first place. Later on, it may feel a little bit easier if you have a full slate of clients. You've got more clients you could possibly ever imagine handling. Or then you might say, I'm just not going to take that one. But I still think many of us, if we've been taking any business that comes our way from day one, if we've made this assumption that we have to take every dollar that shows up, then we're going to work with people who are going to drain our energy and make us feel like this work isn't worth doing.

[00:10:35.030] - Michael

So I say, A, let's make sure that we've got a red velvet rope policy in place. So a red velvet rope policy ensures that we are flagging anybody that is a potential client if they are exhibiting any behavior that we think may interfere with our ability to do our best work with them. Because ultimately, we want to do our best work with the people that we work with. Because if we do our best work, then they're going to go out in the world and talk about our best work. But if we're working with somebody for whom we're not ideal, then we're not going to do our best work. And then they're out in the world talking about our less than ideal work. So I think right from the beginning, we should be saying no, not necessarily as much as we say yes. But if you're doing external marketing and people that are coming to you randomly as opposed to through referrals from people you trust, you might say no as much as you say yes. 50 % of the time you might say, I don't think we're right for each other, and here's why. But if most of the leads that are coming to you are through referral, then probably nine out of 10 are going to be ideal, and then maybe only one you'll have to flag as not ideal.

[00:11:48.860] - Michael

So I think first, before we're bringing anybody in, we have a red velvet row policy. We've documented what makes a client ideal and what makes them less than ideal. And we look for any flags that are on that less than ideal, and we address them directly with confidence and without any concern for what are they going to think if I ask them or if I mention, listen, here's what you did during the sales process. Now, it's perfectly fine that you did it, but that's not something that works for us. If you want to work with us, then that approach is not going to work. Here's the approach that will work. And if they say, well, I don't want to work with you, then you say, Fine. But once you start working with somebody who turns out to be a Doug client, then I think it reminds us that we should have set better expectations at the beginning and manage those expectations during the process. So right when somebody comes in, we say, Look, here's how we do our best work. Here's what will interfere with the work, and we both sign it. You sign it, we sign it.

[00:12:51.440] - Michael

Everybody's on the same page. Then you keep revisiting those expectations because we have to revisit expectations in all relationships. Even wonderfully effective relationships still need a revisit of expectations every once in a while. So it's less likely somebody's going to become a dead client. But if you've done all of that, you've addressed these issues, but they still keep happening, then you can very easily say, I don't think we're best suited for each other because I like to do my best work. I'm not able to do my best work because of A, B and C. And if they get mad at you, they get mad at you. But if you don't do this, it's going to blow up anyway, and they're going to get mad at you outside of your ability to control or influence that situation. So it takes a huge amount of guts to say, I don't think we should work together anymore. It takes a huge amount of guts to put a really strong red velvet Roe policy in place right from the get go. But I think that it's worth it because this is your business. This. You didn't start this to work with people that you don't like working with.

[00:13:50.100] - Michael

You started this to do great work with people that you want to work with and be very profitable in the process.

[00:13:56.680] - Joya

How do you become that authority? This is not the first rodeo for the majority of nobody on this call. Everyone's pretty senior at what they do. So how do you become an authority? How do you become that likable, go to, trustworthy person? We've got interior designers on this call. We've got graphic designers on this call. We've got artists on this call. We've got people that own franchises on this call. We've got a range of industries that you're speaking to today.

[00:14:19.780] - Michael

Sure. So I would say one of the things that helps really establish your authority is to move out of Expertville and into visionary town, which means this, if you're sitting squarely in expertville, you're a commodity because experts these days are a dime a dozen. I can, let's say you mentioned interior design. I can turn on YouTube anytime of the day, and I can learn all sorts of best practices for interior design. If I want to learn even best practices for financial planning, estate planning. I just go to YouTube and I start learning. There's a lot of books out there that will give me the expertise, best practices. But anytime that something becomes commoditized, it becomes less valuable. So if you're an expert in a subject, it just means that you understand the current best practices. The people, however, who tend to rise above that commoditized group of experts are the visionaries, are the people who are seen as visionary, the people who say, Yes, I know what all the best practices are, and I can articulate all of the best practices for you, but I'm going to offer an alternative approach. I'm going to challenge the status quo and suggest there might be another way of doing this.

[00:15:55.980] - Michael

And so that takes also a fair amount of courage, and it takes the intellectual property to be able to confidently say, I've got another approach. I have a different way of looking at this. But what that does is it moves you out of Expertville and into Visionary Town where you have a lot more space. People see you as a thought leader that is not just reporting on the present with here are the best practices, but creating the future by articulating a vision that is different than what the people who are in your market or your space are currently seeing. So that really establishes your authority as a visionary, not just as an expert, because, again, I think these days experts are a diamond dozen. And you might say, yeah, But I'm a real expert. There's a lot of people in my industry who act like experts, but for the general population, they have a really hard time differentiating between what a real bona fide expert and a want to be expert. But if you don't even get engaged in the expert conversation, instead, you focus on visionary ideas that change the way people feel, the way they think, and ultimately the way they act, well, then you establish a whole space that is your own, a proprietary space.

[00:17:17.580] - Joya

Where the grass is. Michael, who's a visionary? Who's an example of someone who's an expert versus a visionary? Just so that people have that exact example.

[00:17:26.060] - Michael

Well, I'd say let's take let's take personal finance. And this is my personal perspective on it. There's a book that I love called The Simple Path to Wealth. It's a really very simple book, I think really quite profound book. But it offers an alternative approach to the status quo that many people will hear from most financial advisors visers or planners. And as a result, you follow the advice in that book the way that you would follow a visionary leader as opposed to, Oh, I'll just implement this practice or implement this practice. It shows you a whole another way of approaching your investing. And if you're an investor already with a lot of experience, you may read it and go, Oh, I know a lot of this. But for most people who are reading the book, it's going to seem quite visionary to them.

[00:18:31.740] - Joya

Got it. So one of the things that I hear again and again every day is how do I get in front of new audiences? I'm going to tweak that question a little bit for you. How do you know your target market and explain the benefits of your services and do that well?

[00:18:45.230] - Michael

Sure. So, yeah, I think it's essential having target markets. I've actually refined the terminology that I use. And instead of thinking about target market, I think about fractals. Now, fractals are something that most people probably have never thought of unless they took advanced math. I didn't, just for the record. But I did learn a lot about this concept because a fractal is a self sustaining, self repeating mathematical process. I like thinking about the markets that we go into like a fractal tree that you could think of as a referral tree. So, for example, let's say your target market is the publishing industry. Well, that's a big, big, big group. So if you have a tree, that would be the trunk of the tree. But then the tree has lots of branches. So, Joya, what's one fractal inside of the publishing industry?

[00:19:48.740] - Joya

Prescriptive or self help books.

[00:19:50.340] - Michael

Yeah, prescriptive or self help books. Then there might be professional books. Then there are fiction books, but you might have self publishing, trade publishing, hybrid publishing, Christian publishing. There's so many different fractals. So if you can get a really narrow focus on a couple of these fractals, what it does, when you do your marketing in one of those fractals, not only will you leverage the fact that you're focused on that fractal and that you'll pick up many more opportunities inside that fractal. So if you do some type of marketing inside, say, the hybrid publishing space, you're going to get more opportunities inside hybrid publishing because they all see you as, Oh, this person really has fractal understanding. They really get our market, our world. They really know us. But of course, because there will be people in that audience, and when I say audience, I mean, it could be people reading something online, listening to a podcast, attending a presentation, reading a book, any type of promotional activity you do. There will be people inside that space who are also in other fractals inside publishing. So you now then jump to the other one. And so now someone says, listen, this is really helpful for people in this space.

[00:21:12.280] - Michael

I'm also part of this organization that does Christian publishing. Could you come and talk to us, or could you write for us, or could you, etc, etc. And so now, boom, you just get access to another fractal, and your referral tree keeps growing because you're adding more and more branches on top of that trunk, which is the main target market, and now you're all over the place. You just want to pick well. So I got an invitation about 12 years ago to speak at a balloon twisting conference where they twist balloons, put them on the head for the parties. And it was a really interesting conference, quite quirky. It was only the second strangest event I've ever spoken at. The first was Athena's Home Novelties. Okay. That was quite an experience, Athena's Home Novelties. Yes, but this one was the Balloon Twisting Association. And the reason I mention it is because I went home and that next week I got two more invitations to speak at two more balloon twisting conferences. Apparently I was a hit. I blew it up at the balloon twisting conference. And I respectfully declined those, even though they were willing to pay full fee at the time, because I didn't want to become the balloon twisting guy.

[00:22:33.070] - Michael

So you want to make sure you're picking your fractals well and that you do want to get known in these particular spaces because I didn't think that being the balloon twisting guy would really help me when I went and focused on financial services as a fractal or another market that didn't have connection to it. Because if you're saying if one of your markets is, say, mortgage, then anybody in banking is going to look at you because they think, oh, well, they understand our world a bit. But if it's too outside their disclosive space, sometimes it's hard for them to reconcile who you are, what they would do with you. But if it's all of your fractals come off this main trunk that is this larger target market, well, then you've got a lot of different angles to pursue.

[00:23:18.380] - Joya

Final question, Michael, before I turn it over to questions, we talked about networking, getting referrals. What's one big tip that nobody talks about that you want to be able to share with this audience?

[00:23:31.050] - Michael

Well, I don't think people talk much about the fact that you can run an entirely referral based organization if you want. And in fact, when your clients know that you are a referral only organization, they feel really good that they're in. It becomes more exclusive. It feels almost like being a member. And if you design the organization such that it is a referral based organization, you are much more likely to produce clients from referrals from people who are already clients or past clients. And so then you can start looking at, well, how do we have an alumni program? What do we do for people that extends beyond just the services we typically provide that brings them together? So there's some forming of community, which makes them more connected to the mission at hand and their relation to it, and they're more likely to refer in. So I say this, knowing that it's not for everybody. I'm not suggesting everybody should do a referral only type of organization, but it is an option for you and something that not many people talk about because they think it limits their options. And it's a little scary because you're now saying no to people that just call up randomly.

[00:24:44.680] - Michael

There is a way to get them referrals, though. If someone calls up, even if you're a referral only organization and they don't have a referral, you can tell them you're a referral only organization and you can introduce them to a few of your current clients that you think might be good networking partners for them, and then they get to know them, and then you can say, Listen, we're going to see if one of them is willing to give you a referral to come in. And so you can create that opportunity semi organically if you really feel that person is an ideal client for you, but just make sure that they are an ideal client. And to be really relentless about staying true to your red velvet rope policy.

[00:25:29.980] - Joya

I love that. The red velvet rope. I'm going to start with Tina Romtandani, who is the interior designer that I mentioned earlier. Tina's business is gangbusters right now. She services the New York Metro area and beyond. But Tina, when you think about getting clients you love to work with, your question for Michael? I really like the red velvet rope policy. I could not say that.

[00:25:54.420] - Michael

I think that's really interesting.

[00:25:56.300] - Speaker 3

Most.

[00:25:56.680] - Joya

Of.

[00:25:56.900] - Speaker 3

My clients I'm enjoying right.

[00:26:00.380] - Michael

Now.

[00:26:02.000] - Joya

I guess the question is, and do you have any key questions to identify red flags? I think I do an okay job about.

[00:26:11.360] - Speaker 3

It, but any must Ask questions?

[00:26:17.760] - Michael

So, Tina, thank you. Do you have a staff? Do you have employees or contractors that you work with? Yeah. So I imagine you have a hiring process? Yes. and so if you have a hiring process that you've put into place that has a number of different stages where you ask certain questions, stage one, then you move into stage two, stage three, stage four, etc. You can extrapolate from that hiring process so that you think about the clients that are coming in, not as clients that you have to serve in the old fashioned way of subjugating yourself to, Oh, whatever you need, I will do. But instead, you're interviewing them. And you make that very clear upfront. So you know what questions are going to elicit conversation around important areas for you. So, for example, if you're an interior design, I imagine I'm just making this up, but I imagine that you like to work with clients who are collaborative, and I imagine that you like to work with clients who don't... When you bring a new idea, they'll be like, Oh, that's disgusting. That's a stupid idea. Why did you bring that? I'm just going on a limb here saying you probably don't like when people talk like that.

[00:27:34.340] - Michael

So you may say, tell me about an experience that you've had working with a designer in the past that you found worked really well. What worked well about that? Or, if you ever had an experience with a designer or somewhere similar where the experience didn't go very well, could you tell me what that experience was like and why? Or you might ask, and just exactly like you do in an interview if you were interviewing somebody. So if you've ever had a conflict with another employee, how did you handle it? And then they will walk through it and they say, Oh, well, I just fired them. If I don't like what they're doing, I just fire them. Okay, well, red flag. If you come up with, Okay, what's important to me? What are the values that I need this person to have? And what are the behaviors that I need them to undertake that are going to allow me to do my best work? That's what you're looking for. And then you ask questions that get them talking about how they handle those situations. And don't let them off the hook, just like you wouldn't in an interview process with an employee.

[00:28:50.080] - Michael

Got it. And often they'll work harder. You've heard of the takeaway in sales where you say to... You live in New York, Joy. I used to work for the sports club company, which owned all the sports club LAs, which now are owned all by Equinox. But we had a lot of very high end clientele, very large, very high end gyms. And I was on the business side. And every once in a while, you'd have a client who would complain, the hot tub is a half inch below where it's supposed to be. And then the next day, the half inch is a half inch above where it's supposed to be. And so then at some point you'd say, I just don't think we're the right club for you. I really don't think we can serve you. We're trying our best, but I just don't think we can do it. So I've got some friends over at Equinox or over at... Let me call them up and see if I can help get you a deal to move over there. And they go, No, it's not that. I don't want to leave. And you're going, Okay, all right.

[00:29:47.580] - Michael

So you've seen this, I'm sure, many times in certain situations. But if the client has to work to get your business, rather than you just working to get their business, it changes the dynamic. That's true.

[00:30:00.520] - Joya

I love that. Mary Ann Morrow is CEO of Nineth gear, which is based in Foster City, California, and she has created a platform that is clearing foreign currency transactions in nanoseconds versus the usual settlement time. Mary Ann, what is your question?

[00:30:15.740] - Speaker 3

So I work on Wall Street with pricks and super pricks, so I try to make sure that we can swipe left on anybody that really is not a nice, happy person that gets shit done because I don't want to work with them on a daily basis. But I also want to make sure that we have the luxury of working initially with people that we want to work with. So that's the partnerships we cultivate. So I think that my question is very similar to Tina's is I have eliminated people from our company super quick when they start to put up some of those things that really help them as a traitor, but are not good for polite conversations. I'm always trying to help myself engage that initially when I talk with people or try to preempt things just to explain I'm not going to put up with that. So anything else that you can help me with super powers on that I'd be very keen to listen to.

[00:31:16.740] - Michael

I'm happy to. Yeah, I love the way that you just described the difference between a prick and a super prick. That's probably one of the best description I've heard of some of those characters.

[00:31:28.920] - Speaker 3

I got.

[00:31:29.460] - Michael

Stories, Michael. I bet you do. I bet you do. So there's two things that come to mind for me. Number one, I would put as much material on the front end of the process as possible to weed out people. And you're probably already doing that. I I would put, we don't work with pricks, and we certainly don't work with super pricks. Let me describe a prick, and let me describe a super prick. Jennifer is laughing up there. She's going, Oh, my God. Could you really do that? That would be crazy. Yes, you absolutely could do that. And maybe you do already. So the more you put on the front end, the better, because then people self select, people call you up and be like, I hear I want to talk to you just because you said you don't work with pricks and super pricks. That's the thing that will get them on the phone with you because they feel so strongly about those people and their behavior as well. So now you share a value and you bring it to the surface right at the beginning. The second thing I would do is something that we found really, really effective that we call the 80 20 video. And we call the 80 20 video because one of my friends, Marcus Sheridan, told us to call it this.

[00:32:40.340] - Michael

This is what he called it, the 80 20 video. And so now we make these 80 20 videos left and right all the time. An 80 20 video is something that we have any potential client watch before they get on the phone with us. If you want to get on the phone... And I don't know. Every once in a while, I worry when I say, Look, if you want to get on the phone with us, you have to watch this. People think, Oh, my God. They're so arrogant, or How dare you put people through that? Well, the way I think about it is this. I've got a small team, and I care deeply about their time. So I don't want them on the phone with pricks or super pricks. I don't want them on the phone with people who are going to say, Oh, wait. No, I know you do all this stuff, but what can I get for $200? It's just a waste of their time. And it doesn't actually serve the person on the phone either. It doesn't help them because we're not going to be able to provide that. So at the front end, we say, look, here we're really, really clear about who it's for and who it's not for.

[00:33:41.320] - Michael

And if you're not in this category, here are some resources that would help you, even though you're not going to be coming to work with us. So you can listen to the podcast, you can read the book. Here's other books, other people that are potential teachers for you. But the 80 20 video is really helpful because if you think about a sales conversation and you really analyze it, do this with your sales conversation for the next, say, week or two and try to figure out what percentage of that sales conversation actually influenced the outcome of the conversation versus just giving them information. So for example, there's no reason that anyone should be, like on our team, there's anybody should be on the phone with somebody explaining what dates the events are held. That's not going to change the outcome of the sales conversation. There's so much expository information. There's so much logistical real information that if they can get that through another medium where we don't have to have people on the phone with them and we do it in a way that's really effective and engaging and it's a really great video, not only are we demonstrating the brand of the company through the video, we're also answering all those questions.

[00:35:02.240] - Michael

So by the time they get on the phone, it's like, look, I just have one question. Only question I have is, am I going to be able to do this? And the answer is yes. Good. Sign me up. Let's go. So when we do an event and we have... Let's say we do a two day event. The way that we do it here is that people get referred. They can come to a two day event for free if they were referred by an alumni. And then for 30 minutes on the second day, we tell them about the next program that we do, which is a long term seven month, higher price point training. We always open it with, listen, our intention for the next 30 minutes is to do the classiest pitch you've ever heard in your life. And when it isn't the class's pitch you've ever heard in your life, I will do pushups or clean your shoes for the rest of the day. Whatever you want me to do, that's our goal. And so people actually enjoy hearing the pitch even if they don't come and join. In because it's structured in a way that's supportive.

[00:36:03.280] - Michael

But then what happens is they'll get on the phone with usually Amy, who's my wife here at the company for 15 minutes. That's it. And then they're making in those 15 minutes, they're telling her yes or no if they want to move forward. Because we put so many different steps in the process that they've already gone through that by the time they get to the conversation, it's a done deal. They know it. And we set it up saying, listen, you're getting on this conversation either to say, yes, I am doing this, or I'd like to do this, but I do have a few questions. You're not getting on this phone conversation for us to sell it to you. If by the time you get on the phone, you don't know you want it, then it's probably not the right thing for you. And we do this with charm and grace and as much charisma as we can muster. But because they've been deeper into the process, it's much easier, which is why I say all sales offers should be proportionate to the amount of trust that you've earned. Sales offers should be proportionate to the amount of trust that you've earned.

[00:37:08.550] - Michael

So if you make sales offers that are too big, too quickly, then you're going to need these long, long conversations where they're asking a million details. But if the sales offer is perfectly proportionate to the amount of trust that you've earned, they often don't have a lot of details because they say, I am not even concerned about the details. I just need to know, can I get there? Is it going to produce the outcome that I want? I understand the financial dynamics. You're going to take me through this. I trust you that you know what you're doing and you'll let me know how it's going to work when we actually start. That's what we find when it's set up properly So you do the 80 20 % of the conversation that is not helpful to move the sales forward. That's just logistical or information or expository. That goes in a video that they watch first. Then you can focus on that 20 % that is reward oriented, benefit oriented that shows them that return on investment clearly and can answer any questions that are related to that.

[00:38:11.160] - Joya

Michael, the next question comes from Nitu Bhandari, who owns a children's hair salon in Livingston, New Jersey. She says she's a service provider. And how does she encourage or promote her existing clients to give her business through referrals?

[00:38:24.980] - Michael

Okay. So our headquarters are in Lambertville, New Jersey. So we're not right next to each other, but we're still neighbors. I would say this, and I mentioned earlier the importance of the community aspect. I think there's three things that drive referrals, primarily. Number one, their relationship with you. If it's personal, if they feel that they have a stake in your life and you have a stake in their life, they're going to be inclined to send your referrals. Number one. Number two, the second thing is that the work you do is so remarkable that it cannot be denied. So if you have a salon, every time somebody shows up back at the office after they get their hair done, people should be asking about it. If they're asking about it, you're going to get the referrals. If they're not asking about it, it's a problem with the product, not the referral process. And number three, that they're connected to the community. So one of the things that I learned when I was in the fitness business a few decades ago is when you look at all the data around group exercise classes, aerobics classes, the majority of people say they initially went to the class because they heard the teacher was really great, or they only went because their friend dragged them.

[00:39:57.780] - Michael

So in the first one, they heard the teacher was great from who? A friend. And then the other one, they may not have heard of the teacher, but the friend's like, You're coming with me 6 AM, Tuesday morning. If you don't, I'm not going out with you this weekend. And they're like, Okay, fine, I'm coming. And then guess the reason that they come back is not the teacher. It's because their friends are there. And the friend says, Where were you? I was here at 6 AM on Tuesday. Where were you? And so if they feel connected to other people who also patronize your business, who are part of your community, then they're much more likely to want to send more people into that community that they like because they are getting benefit from being part of it and they want to grow it.

[00:40:40.840] - Joya

Got it. Thank you so much. I've often said to you, who's a friend as well, like maybe doing a story hour, obviously when the pandemic has passed, but that may start to create that sense of community that you're talking about. That's right. I agree. Lisa Lopez is a broker of Distressed Assets at the Jersey Shore. She's an ocean County, so not your neighbor. But Lisa, what is your question?

[00:41:04.760] - Speaker 3

Hi, Michael, thank.

[00:41:05.510] - Joya

You for your time today. I just picked up your book yesterday, so I'm anxious to read it. I'm a real estate broker, and I've been in the business 27 years. So as you can imagine, I do a lot of.

[00:41:18.220] - Michael

Referral.

[00:41:18.870] - Joya

Work, but I would love.

[00:41:21.480] - Speaker 3

To.

[00:41:22.480] - Joya

Have a better understanding on how to take.

[00:41:24.800] - Speaker 3

My referrals from good.

[00:41:27.180] - Joya

To a master level.

[00:41:29.090] - Michael

How do I get myself to that point.

[00:41:31.680] - Joya

As the owner of.

[00:41:32.450] - Michael

The company that I'm only.

[00:41:34.480] - Joya

Taking in referral business and that keeps me plentiful?

[00:41:38.200] - Michael

Sure. So there's something you'll see it when you read book yourself solid. There's a section in there that is about the always have something to invite people to offer. It's a terrible name. I've been asking help from audiences for two decades to come up with a better name for it, but that's exactly what it is. And the reason that I came up this idea of the always have somebody to invite people to offer is because when I started in business, I was not comfortable with what I saw as selling because, again, I wanted all sales offers to be proportionate to the amount of trust that I've earned. So if I just met somebody, Lisa, if I was a real estate broker and I just met somebody on the street waiting in line to get a cup of coffee or something, I couldn't imagine saying to them, Hey, listen, if you need a broker, I'm here. It just seems like, oh, I don't know, I wouldn't like that. But I did need to figure out a way to start conversations and continue conversations with people. So I thought, Well, look, what do people hate generally? Okay, they hate being sold things that they don't ask to be sold.

[00:42:49.640] - Michael

They hate being interrupted. So what do they like? Well, they like surprises, not always. So I was like, I don't want to surprise people because not everybody likes a surprise. They like invitations to things that might be interesting or helpful that have no barrier to entry. They can then say, Yes, I will check that out. Or, No, I'm not going to do that one. But maybe I'll do the next one. I came up with this idea for an always have something to invite people to offer. When you meet somebody or when your clients were trying to refer people to you, especially with what you do, when you meet somebody, they may not be in the market to buy something. It might be four years before they actually say, Oh, I think I'm going to buy something on the shore. But you want to develop that relationship for those four years because it's a big payday when they do. It's very hard to just be there at the right time when someone gets that seizure of like, I need to buy a distressed property at the Jersey shore. How do you know when that's going to happen and you can't always be there.

[00:43:54.280] - Michael

So what if whenever you meet people, you have something you can invite them to that is no barrier to entry? It's free, it's easy. Now, prior to the pandemic, and certainly by this summer, we would hope, we can start doing things in person. I know Joy has been doing them for a while. So the people you interact with may be comfortable with doing it right now. But let's say you're a realtor on the Jersey Shore and you do distressed properties. Well, wouldn't it be cool every weekend during the busy season or whatever season is appropriate for you or once a month or once every two weeks. The frequency is up to you based on how many people are interested in it, what's feasible, etc. But let's just say you did it regularly because that's key. It needs to be consistent in order to build trust. You could say we meet at this location in this town at 10 o'clock AM, and then you show up there with a big sprinter van and you can take 12 people at a time or 20 people at a time, and you do tours of all the real estate deals that have happened over the last six months so you can teach people about the market and what's going on.

[00:45:09.400] - Michael

Now, I'm just using this as a hypothetical. There are a hundred different variations of that idea, but what it is is something that other people don't do. You can become known for it. And some people will come regularly because they want to learn more. Some people will come once, but then that you establish the relationship with them and you have other things you do to provide value for them and stay connected with them over time. Some people will never come, but they know you do it. That knowledge that you do that thing, which is free, which you always invite them to, consistently builds trust. And if they trust you, you know that lady that does those bus tours? We got to talk to her before we talk to anybody else when we're thinking about buying this property on the shore. So we're down the shore as is more appropriately is the way they say it in Jersey, right? But any one of us can do this. So when I started this, there were no videos. I was doing everything online, meaning you couldn't do... There was no Zoom. Skype didn't exist. So it was 2003 when I started and I just did teleconferences.

[00:46:20.820] - Michael

And each week on Mondays at 12 o'clock, I'd bring a new topic that I thought would be helpful to the people that I served. And so anywhere I went, I'd be like, Look, I do this thing for free. Here's the number. Call in. You can lurk in the back. I wouldn't even know you're there. If you want to participate, you could participate. If you love it, you keep coming back. If you don't love it, just a few minutes. The first time I did it, there were four people, one of whom was my mother.

[00:46:41.700] - Joya

My mother.

[00:46:42.480] - Michael

Would say anything I do it was fantastic. She's like, I don't know what was going on, but it was fabulous. And then eventually, within six months, 50 people would show up regularly. And then it was hundreds of people after a couple of years. 85 % of all business that I booked in those days in the 2000s came from that always have something to invite people to offer.

[00:47:04.970] - Joya

Amazing.

[00:47:05.950] - Michael

And people can invite their friends to it. Thank you so much.

[00:47:10.060] - Joya

Shreya Meeta is a contemporary artist. She is also wear another business hat, which is that she's a fourth generation wholesale diamond retailer. Shreya, what is your question? My question is related to follow up with clients. So as an artist, I will get somebody who's interested, maybe in the future they'll become a bigger client. What is your thought process on follow up with clients?

[00:47:39.900] - Michael

I think it's never ending. There's two different categories, I think, for follow up. There's the one to one follow up when somebody has expressed interest in something that does run its course. Because if someone's you express interest in something and you do have a couple of conversations, some emails, and it's just not moving, you're not going to just keep bombarding them, interrupting them. This is not your style. So you're not going to feel comfortable doing that, and it's not going to work anyway. But if you have somebody who has not taken action, then they move into a group follow up. So the things you're following up with them are not specifically about that piece that they were interested in or even buying a particular piece. What you're doing at that point is putting them into your group follow up that is focused on community building, education, inspiration, experiences, so that you can stay connected with them in that way. Ideally, what we're doing is we're tracking all of that communication. There's a lot of automated tools you can use for that tracking, and then you know who's paying attention and who's not. And you call out the people who aren't paying attention and the people who are opening and clicking.

[00:49:11.600] - Michael

You're focusing more on them spending more time on them. And then I'm a big fan of the surprise and delight phone call. Randomly calling people that were once interested in something but faded away and just being like, Hey, I'm just calling to surprise and delight you, and then finding a way to do that and not trying to sell them anything, but just demonstrating that they're still top of mind because I think people really want to feel like you're thinking about them. I also have to note, by the way, Joy, I think that anytime I need anything, I'm going to call you and say, Hey, do you know someone? Because I can get diamonds here. I can buy real estate here. I can do nanosecond transactions for financial transactions. I think the list goes on and on and on. You probably have an A team here of the best and the brightest in really unique and interesting fields.

[00:50:14.820] - Joya

I will second that. I also spend between three and five o'clock every day between Tuesday and Thursday, I am meeting new people that I've booked calls with. And I do that religiously because I believe in bringing in those resources to this demographic. So people do often call and say, Hey, Joya, I need a restaurant on 43rd Street and Fifth, and I'm going to dinner in an hour. So I'm like, Okay, give me cuisine, price point, and are you a vegetarian? And those are the three things that I'll use to be able to tell you which restaurant to go to.

[00:50:44.820] - Michael

The next question. What that reminds me of, Joya, this three to five Connecting with New People is another book yourself solid strategy that is based on... All the strategy in book yourself solid is based on philosophy, meaning there's got to be a reason that we're doing it besides, Oh, this could get some business. And it's got to mean something to us, or else we're not going to do it. I think that's critically important. So there's something that I articulate in the book in the networking chapter, on how to create a deeper relationships with the people that you already have met. Because sometimes you meet people and they go, What am I going to talk to them or do with them? Or like, I don't know, I just met this person. And so I always find it helpful to have some reason to stay in touch. So there's something that I call the network of 90. So if you're going to identify, say, 90 people tops that you feel like if I had deep relationships or at least connected relationships where I could contact them and they would respond to me quickly, with 90 people, that should be more than enough people to get booked solid.

[00:52:01.680] - Michael

We often think, I don't know if it's just a very modern concept because we're so interconnected, but everybody, not everybody, but it seems like people are often focused on huge... I want to make a huge database. I want to have the biggest list in the world. I want to know everybody. But frankly, it's really only a small group of people that are going to determine whether or not lots of new business are coming. There was a time when we had 350 affiliates for Book Yourself Solid. And when I analyzed... I'm sorry, 350, 3,500 affiliates. And when I analyzed 3,500 affiliates, do you know how many of them were actually sending enough business that produced any significant revenue? 90. Anyone want to guess?

[00:52:45.000] - Joya

90.

[00:52:46.140] - Michael

Yeah, 90. Maryanne is like this much, right? 10. Now, those weren't clients. They were affiliates, so it's different. They were getting affiliate commissions. This was 10, 15 years ago in Book Yourself Solid. What we do at heroic public speaking is referrals from individuals is very different and we don't pay for that. So I make that point because from a networking perspective, there will be a small group of people that will produce a lot of opportunities for you. So here's what we do. So you don't even need the hours to do this. You're just a few minutes. Each day, and I'm going to Mary Ann, you're going to help me with some math because I know you're good at math. So each day, you introduce two people inside your network who do not yet know each other but would be probably pleased to meet each other. They find some value either personally or professionally. Just introduce two people to each other. So mark that down, Mary Ann, two. Now, additionally, each day you share some information with at least one person inside your network that's valuable to them. Nothing to do with what you do. It's not Lisa sending, Here's a property that you might like to see.

[00:54:05.530] - Michael

She sends an article to Mary Ann and says, Mary Ann, I just saw this article about quantitative easing and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And they were mentioning these transactions. And I thought you'd be interested. So what do you think? You saw it. You like how I through out that quantitative easing, Maryam? I love it.

[00:54:23.230] - Speaker 3

I'm on about QE3.

[00:54:25.580] - Michael

Yeah, right. So Lisa says, I don't know if you've seen this yet, but if you haven't, here's the link. What's your perspective?

[00:54:34.460] - Michael

Now you're in a conversation about something that Mary Ann cares about. It shows Mary Ann, oh, wow, Lisa knows what I care about. She's thinking about me. She took the time to show me this. It's nothing to do with Lisa. It's all to do with Mary Ann. Lisa is interested in Mary Ann's opinion, and then Lisa has an opinion also. Now they're talking about it. Let's just say you did that with one person a day. Okay, so add that number down. Now you have two plus one. Now, let's say you also then share some compassion with at least two people inside your network every day. Now that could be... I mean, look, during the pandemic, every day there's an opportunity to be compassionate because this has been one heck of a ride for most of us. So if you have two people, maybe someone's kid graduated from school, you congratulate them. Maybe somebody else had a loss in the family and you offer condolences. Maybe you just send a joke to somebody that you know is going to cheer them up, someone who loves dad jokes. And that's two people a day. So, Mary Ann, now we've got two plus one plus two.

[00:55:42.320] - Michael

Could you help me with that math for a second?

[00:55:45.120] - Speaker 3

Well, I think you're now at a Fibonacchi sequence because if you're doing this every day, it's going to have velocity in it.

[00:55:51.820] - Michael

There you go. That's actually factoral math. So what happens is if you're doing five people a day, how many days of the week? Let's just say you work five days in the week. So if you have five days in the week, five people a day, how many people is that?

[00:56:08.980] - Speaker 3

That's a lot.

[00:56:11.680] - Michael

Anyone want to give me some... My wife's walking by, she's very good at this. 25 people. Thank you, 25. Okay, so it's 25 people. Now, if you do that for four weeks of the month, 25 times 4 is what? 100. Yes, that's 100 people every month that you're staying in touch with in a way that's meaningful and supportive to them. It's more than your network of 90. I just called it 90 because 100 didn't rhyme with network. So I figured network of 90. 90 people. So if you miss a day, you'll still get your 90. If you miss two days, you'll still get your 90.

[00:56:45.120] - Joya

I love it.

[00:56:45.980] - Michael

But think about that. You're staying in touch every month in some way that's meaningful to all those 90 people. That's in a phenomenally effective way to stay top of mind for them. So when anybody asks them, Oh, I need some help with this. They go, I know somebody. You got to talk to Mary and you got to talk to Christina. You got to talk to Tina. You got to talk to Nitu. They're always going to think of you first because you're staying in touch with them in a way that is meaningful to them.

[00:57:12.820] - Joya

And you stay top of mind. Michael, we have five minutes left. I want to allow for one question and one quick answer from you. And then if people want to work with you or engage with you further, I want that. So my TV brain is telling you to whittle this all down into a sound bite that's going to take no more than four minutes. But the first question is, how can I improve more enrollment of my student body? This comes from Jyothi Varia. She is in New Jersey as well, and she owns a cosmetology school in Howell Township.

[00:57:42.280] - Michael

Okay, so how do I improve the enrollment?

[00:57:44.780] - Joya

More enrollment of students?

[00:57:47.620] - Michael

Of the students. So if I'm being honest, I don't think that's a quick answer. There's so much context that's needed because we need to look at what does that process look like? And so that's what I'll address. What I would recommend you consider is going and looking through every step of that process and try to reduce as much friction as possible. Because remember what I said at the beginning of our time together, I said marketing doesn't book your business. It's what you do once somebody becomes aware of you that actually books the business. So what is every single step on that customer journey look like or that student journey look like? And then you hopefully will find where the friction is. And you also can then track where am I losing people?

[00:58:33.320] - Michael

Because then you can fix that point in the process. So instead of thinking about sales tactics, we think about it from a process perspective. What helps move people from stage 1 to stage 2 to stage 3 to stage 4 to stage five? And you might find you're going too quickly trying to get to stage five, but you need to move them through all these other stages first. Maybe the offer you're making is actually outsized for where they are in the trust building process with you in that sales cycle. So that's what I would consider.

[00:59:05.740] - Joya

Awesome, Michael. If people want to work with you, how do they get in touch.

[00:59:08.360] - Michael

With you? Sure. So our primary website is heroicpublicspeaking. Com. That's what I focus on these days. Book Yourself Solid is still up and running and it's going gangbusters. It's run by somebody else. But Book Yourself Solid is focused specifically on certifying coaches and consultants in the Book Yourself Solid methodology. So if someone is interested in that, they can go to bookyourself solid. Com. But if you just want to reach out to me, ask a question, just shoot me an email at questions@ heroicpublicspeaking. Com. Questions@ heroicpublicspeaking. Com. I did it.

[00:59:44.700] - Joya

In the chat. Michael, it was a pleasure. Again, I'm a little incredulous that you're actually here, having read your book and reread your book in the last couple of years. Thank you. And if anyone has any questions and they email me after the fact, I'll just send it to your email there.

[00:59:58.600] - Michael

Wonderful. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me, everybody. I really appreciate it.

[01:00:01.470] - Joya

Thank you, everyone. Okay.