Ever questioned how invisible double standards within our culture could be affecting you? Brace yourself for a riveting conversation that exposes those subtle, yet powerful norms that often go unnoticed, but when spotted, can trigger feelings of frustration and unfairness. From our homes to our workplaces, and more surprisingly, within our legal system, these norms are deeply etched, waiting to be challenged.
What if we told you that these very double standards could be the barriers preventing unity and mutual respect? We journey through the complexities of differing perspectives, unfolding how being more understanding and kind can erode these divisions. You will begin to see the impact of these standards, how they shape our relationships and create an environment of unconscious bias. We uncover how even a seemingly harmless comment can perpetuate double standards, leading to feelings of disrespect and exclusion.
Finally, in an era where technology is ever-present, we dare to ask: could artificial intelligence be perpetuating bias and unfairness? We touch the surface of this critical issue, contemplating our own biases and the role of pride in maintaining our convictions, even when proven wrong. At the end of this compelling episode, we hope to inspire reflective conversations about these norms and the effects they have on our relationships and our culture. Join us, as we challenge these standards, and together, let's ignite a change.
Thanks for listening. Please check out our website at www.forsauk.com to hear great conversations on topics that need to be talked about. In these times of intense polarization we all need to find time to expand our Frame of Reference.
Ever questioned how invisible double standards within our culture could be affecting you? Brace yourself for a riveting conversation that exposes those subtle, yet powerful norms that often go unnoticed, but when spotted, can trigger feelings of frustration and unfairness. From our homes to our workplaces, and more surprisingly, within our legal system, these norms are deeply etched, waiting to be challenged.
What if we told you that these very double standards could be the barriers preventing unity and mutual respect? We journey through the complexities of differing perspectives, unfolding how being more understanding and kind can erode these divisions. You will begin to see the impact of these standards, how they shape our relationships and create an environment of unconscious bias. We uncover how even a seemingly harmless comment can perpetuate double standards, leading to feelings of disrespect and exclusion.
Finally, in an era where technology is ever-present, we dare to ask: could artificial intelligence be perpetuating bias and unfairness? We touch the surface of this critical issue, contemplating our own biases and the role of pride in maintaining our convictions, even when proven wrong. At the end of this compelling episode, we hope to inspire reflective conversations about these norms and the effects they have on our relationships and our culture. Join us, as we challenge these standards, and together, let's ignite a change.
Thanks for listening. Please check out our website at www.forsauk.com to hear great conversations on topics that need to be talked about. In these times of intense polarization we all need to find time to expand our Frame of Reference.
Let's have it. Hey, hey, hey, everybody, it's that time again, frame of reference coming together. My name is Antoine Hall, missy, and I'm here with my friend, my brother, raoul Lebrich. Raoul, the Fresh Lebrich right.
Speaker 1:That's right. I'm so fresh. I'm like a can of freshly picked up Del Monte beans. Yes, I am. You open me up. You open up that can go. Whoa, that is a fresh bean. That is a fresh bean in so many ways Right. So, oh my God, I just blew the sound stuff right off the spectrum here, so we're going to go back and probably go. What the heck was he doing? Because he just clipped that baby out like nobody's business.
Speaker 2:Right, and yeah, in the course frame of reference coming together, of course, you got old white guy, old black guy coming together, just really sharing. We both strive for unity and loving people, but also we bring together different points of view on some things and we hope to be an example of what it would look like when different groups, people with different ideologies, backgrounds, racist colors, creeds, whatever religions even, can just come in and not just to say, oh, we agree to disagree, but to actually talk it out. To talk it out to say, hey, I hear your point, and then, and even be able to admittedly say, hey, yeah, I used to think this way about a thing, I did not know that. And even just to say, yeah, wow, I've been wrong. No, of course, and it's just, this is we strive for this just to be the beginning of some great conversation in our area, in our country, about just coming together. And so, of course, no, raoul, my brother here, came up with a great topic for today double standards, double standards.
Speaker 1:There's no double standard here. We treat everyone fairly. What are you talking? Double standards? No, no, no, no, no. You know, and that's kind of the thing about double standards, isn't it? Right from the get go, we don't want to admit that they exist, you know. It's just, it's a really weird deal, like they can be going on, they can be festering like some pussy wound for years and we just we kind of say, oh, not paying no attention to that pussy wound, it doesn't really exist.
Speaker 2:And it can in a double standards can become so ingrained in the fabric of a culture or a situation or a company or whatever it may be, that it's just overlooked. I'll give you an example. I worked for a food distributor for a lot of years and of course you know the super, duper, top performers. They didn't have to come in from wherever territory they were in in their sales region to the sales meetings. And of course that thing is like hey, if you selling, don't worry about it. Or, like you know, like says that a good, super, that really really good athlete. You know, it's like a little football training camp right now. So it's like a lot of the veterans or a lot of the great, really really good players. They tend to take practices off and so we'll let it slide, you know. And then it's like just so many different forms of a double standard in these groups. Today, in that LaBresh fashion, I found a definition for a double standard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's a. There's a. A lot of ways to define, but you know we think of if you've got a standard that is, you know, agreed upon. Let's say, the standard is we're not going to talk dirty, okay, we're not going to use nasty words, our, our, our rule in this family. You know, mom sets it out, dad sets it out, we will not use language like that. And then there's one relative that just has a foul mouth, has always had a foul mouth, and you know, everyone just kind of takes it in and says you know, well, that's uncle whatever or aunt blah, blah, blah. They just talk that way.
Speaker 1:There's, there's in lies, a double standard that all of a sudden, as a kid, you may sit back and go wait a minute. We can't talk like that. Why can uncle so-and-so talk that way? Or why, why does aunt such and such get away with behaving like that? Well, because they're them Okay. And the thing I was thinking, what you were talking before is double standards are so interesting because when it's us that gets the advantage of the double standard, we're cool with it. When it's somebody else that gets the advantage of it, it's absolutely the worst thing that's ever happened in the history of humankind right. So you sit back and think, all right. So part of the reason we have and allow, I think, double standards is because we know we have some that we take advantage of. I mean, I get to get in the front of the line at certain events because I know the guy that takes tickets so and that drives everyone behind me absolutely bananas, but it's a problem. They got to wait in line, too bad for them, so.
Speaker 2:But if we're in that line watching that, oh boy look out right, yeah, so that double standard, like, of course we basically judge in our own behavior compared to the behavior of others, that's spent, like you say, when it benefits us. It's like if you were standing in that line you'd be like, hey, but it's you going to the front of the line. It's like, oh, it's all right, don't worry about it. Yeah Well, yeah, like, and. But yeah, that's, that's a and, of course, basically is just simply a hey, a rule or principle which is unfairly applied in different ways to different people or groups.
Speaker 2:You know is a general definition of it and we see that play out in the legal system. We see it play out amongst corporations and companies and employers, in schools and just society, as in general. You know we see it and but again, it's, you know, with the within the context of our podcast here you know we're talking about. You know, along the lines of race and equity and even like, say, judicial. That's a look at what's happening in the news. You know we got a very popular person that's being indicted on multiple charges in multiple places, and you know, of course there's probably people sitting in prison or sitting in jail waiting right now like, hey, why am I out just moving around in the same thing. You know what I mean, right? So it's like these things, these double step. They're so blatant sometimes that it's just again. It's just where we are right now.
Speaker 1:So let there be any fuzziness on this whole thing. I took the cue and looked up double standard on my handy dandy internet device and it says a double standard is the application of different sets of principles for situations that are, in principle, the same. It's often used to describe treatment whereby one group is given more latitude and most to certain ethnicities being judged more harshly than others. Well, well, well now isn't there about 16 weeks worth of conversations right there? And again I will point out the double standards. What makes them so powerful is we don't want to admit that they exist. We do not.
Speaker 2:We talked about this in our first couple of podcasts and we were talking about, you know, white privilege. You know if that is not a double standard in a sense, you know, and where it's like where we had this or race versus the other, same exact set of rules, same exact set of principles, but this person is going to get the automatic upper hand just because of the color of the skin.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And if you don't, if you don't want to admit that it exists? Because I think where a lot of folks that I know get hung up is when you talk about things like white privilege, they immediately put it to their lives and want to rationalize that, well, I don't have white privilege. I had to work for everything I have. I'm, you know, I'm hardworking. I don't want people getting something for doing nothing, you know. So tell me what privileges I have. And the problem with that article, that argument, honestly, is that we cannot know. We have to, as white people, I think we have to come to grips with the fact that we cannot know what white privilege looks like because we're white, you know. It's just. It's like saying you know, I know what stupid people are and you know who they are, but I'm not stupid.
Speaker 2:I look at it from a treatment standpoint. You know, you are like, say, a person, just say you are the white person in the line and the person is taking care of you with your items in the checkout, and then there's a person of color behind you Turn around and see if they get the same treatment you do.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That'd be a great indicator. Just turn around and see if they get the same treatment you do.
Speaker 1:Right? Well, take a bow Walking along the streets. Any ladies that are out there tell me if you are walking along the street and you see a black man coming along the opposite direction, do you respond differently than you would if it was a white guy? You know, statistically you're probably in more danger with the white guy because there's a higher percentage overall of you know problems there if you take it across the spectrum. But it's also more dangerous because you're probably not going to be looking for it in terms of the trouble coming up.
Speaker 1:It's a tough nut for people to crack and realize. You know, I have no way of knowing what white privilege looks like. I just don't. It's like me saying I know exactly how a woman feels. Oh, my God, sweetheart, I know exactly how you feel. You want to have a big problem with a woman telling them that once you know, telling them you know exactly how they feel, you will find yourself in a whole lot of trouble, and rightly so, because I don't know. As a man I can never know completely and I got to fess up to that and deal with it and be compassionate and say I can't understand. I wish I could. I don't understand what you're going through. But please, please, help me, to help you, please help me to understand more of it so that I can maybe see it a little bit better, more clearly.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, like I said a little bit ago, just like you know, when we talk about double standards they're so deeply ingrained in the fabric of the country is that when you call it out, you know, rather than again admitting that there may be, a person can know it's wrong but in today's world will double down on the lie and get angry versus just saying yeah, I was wrong on that or I do acknowledge that. And that's where we are as a country, as a people, right now. You know it's like that double standard, that privilege or whatever people want, whatever upper hand they can get in this, in this stage of the country, I would say, you know, of course we just have to get back to the unity piece. We got to get back to the loving people piece of things. Because, you know, like, when we actually remove double standards, these hypocritical ways, you know, if we remove all those things, you know we actually come into loving people, we come into unity, equity and inclusion and all these other things will actually become automatic. You know, and I think if we can just simply admit faults, admit wrongs, and we'd be on the right track to things.
Speaker 2:But you know, getting these double standards, you know they're to the benefit of some and not to others, you know, and of course, like when you point out, again, you point out that double standard, you get a ton of what abouts. Well, what about this, what about that, what about? And it's like, yeah, what about it? You know, but the thing is, I'm pointing out this one thing that is actually wrong, and we both know it's wrong, but yet you want to have the audacity to defend the point and but then again it's like, you know, then you can't really argue the point because you know there's a old saying it's like don't argue with a fool, because the people from afar won't know who the fool is. So you just, again, it's just, you get what we see in this. People just get ground into some form of submission in the double standards stand or they just go like, oh well, you know, you see me trying to deal with that, you know, and that's where we are.
Speaker 1:I saw a meme a while back that said don't argue with stupid people because they'll wear you down to their level and then they'll beat you with experience. So that doesn't that answer a lot of issues. But no, and I don't know, you know to, I don't know how to argue anymore with people that just don't want to get it. You know, it's just, I don't know that we we do ourselves any service by arguing with someone that is completely shut down to looking at things in a different light, to understand that. You know, the world is not just as I see it. The world is a place with many different viewpoints. The play the world is a place with many different backgrounds and you know, ethnicities, nations and all of those rightfully so, have developed their own perspective, sometimes on a national level, sometimes on an individual level, sometimes on a group or a culture level, and those are all valid. So I don't understand and I don't know how to get past the fact that we can just acknowledge that this is how I see it. But that's just how I see it. And where we really grow, where we learn and really start to feel like life is bigger than me or you or whatnot, is when we share that in a respectful way and then learn the other person's perspective in a respectful way and we find the commonalities, we find the things that are similar, we find the things that are universally accepted as being important.
Speaker 1:You know, it's I don't think. I don't think there's a big problem with getting this. So when we talk about these words like inclusion, and some people are like, oh God, inclusion. I'm so tired of hearing about inclusion. It's like, well, yeah, maybe you don't like the way it's been presented, but the idea of conclusion, inclusion is really a wonderful thing If everyone felt that they could be included in whatever is going on, that in. And not talking about participation awards OK, not talking about that. Talking about being welcomed into the group and being respected for having something valid to offer.
Speaker 2:And the best part about that's a great point, that we're talking about inclusion. Just like you say, take a different mindset on it, like what can I learn? What can I learn, what can I apply to my life to make it better? You know, in the course when you were just talking, you made another great point. You know it's like we, I guess, when we talk about how do you argue with someone with a different viewpoint, and it is, you're right, it's almost like you just want to give up, like you know it ain't no use. But it's like you know the Bible tells us, you know it's in Romans 12, us starting around verse 9 or 10. It says like yield to one another and brotherly kindness yield. No one wants to yield, even if it's just to say, okay, I'm gonna hear you out. No one wants to do that.
Speaker 1:And and that's where we have to at least get to that stage where you'll hear the other person out, you know yeah, yeah, you think about yielding and and traffic detours, or you know when lanes have to merge and it's so interesting to me because I, you know, you watch and the vast majority of people are trying to play by the rules and merge. And you know a lot of them are really foresightful and can see it. You know a mile or so down the way and they start merging right away. They get it. They know this is the deal, you know, and as you're getting down there to the last, you know 10 cars worth of length to everybody getting into one lane some yahoo or a series of yahoo's will come streaming down the road on the shoulder and Push themselves right into the point where you can't you have to let them in and I just, I swear to God, I want so much to have like a steel beam on the bottom of my car that I can press a button and that thing will flip out with like, like a gate and just cause their whole card. It is like stop and have them flip out. And I, you know, I just have this vision of either that or a laser blaster where I can just go In. Their whole car just goes boom, because it's just such a?
Speaker 1:They don't yield, they don't know, they think there's a double standard. I don't have to wait, I'm much too important, I have an important appointment to get to. Well, thanks, yahoo, I'm going faster than you do, right. Right, I have a nicer car, can't you see, with my nice car, I'm not the kind of person that waits, and and that doesn't I mean you can be in a vote, beat up Volkswagen and have the same mentality I, you know, don't mean to make it anything other than a mindset that says I don't have to wait, I don't have to participate, I don't. These rules don't apply to me because there's a double standard, right?
Speaker 2:and, and you know it's like when you were talking about that last part, you gave me a PTSD, because every time I'm on my way to the office in Appleton on 41 South, you know, at a certain point, just a few miles of the road, you start to get these signs saying the left lane is gonna end and but for some reason, that is the okay I'm, I got a get in front of you lane. It's like it's like you're trying to jump Six or seven cars instead of just falling on in line.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know yeah, it's not amazing, like the on ramps too, you know, there's the people that wait their turn and come in behind the traffic. And there's those people that just zip in there and they're gonna get, even if there's inches between you and them. They just they're pulling right in front of you and they're gonna they're getting on the freeway, get out of my way. And you just you wonder what? That's the? That's the part of our brains that has to somehow be suspended so that we can say you know what? Yeah, there's gonna be yahoo's, there's, there's goofballs that break the rules. It just is. But I'm not gonna be that guy, I'm not gonna be that person.
Speaker 2:Right, and you know where this is amazing? You know, of course, like how you know we talk about, like, say, double standard, and you could just quick flip talk about entitlement, right? Mm-hmm you know the, the biggest behavior of biggest behaviors of entitlement I get is from older people. Typically you say oh, the younger generation, they feel so entitled. No, I, I Get it from older people.
Speaker 1:Wait a minute. I'm older. Does that mean I'm entitled to stuff that I'm not been good? Yeah, well, you know, think about it all that I might 10% off coffee at McDonald's, you know, or whatever. The dollar. I forget that. Keep seeing these articles. I guess they know now that I'm in my 60s, keep seeing these things. You know those, those senior benefits that you probably don't know about? And it's like, oh, okay, I mean I went to the grocery store not too long ago and realized that Wednesday was seniors day, so I could save 10% on all my groceries. And the girl that serves is are you a senior? And like, oh, bless you. Yes, yes, I am.
Speaker 2:But you know, is that that feel the need that they don't have to wait, yeah, yeah well, they deserve it.
Speaker 1:Right, they deserve it. That's that whole entitlement idea is I deserve this, I worked hard, whatever, and now I'm gonna make sure that I get every single thing coming to me.
Speaker 2:And I'm not talking about senior citizens, like you know, like a 70 plus, but I'm talking about that, that in our age range, that 50 to 70 ish, late 60s, whatever yeah yeah, we're just. It's like I'm just gonna bogart my way through this. It's like I don't know how many times I'll be in woodmines. I'm like, I'm, you know, like, and it's like you see me standing in this line, right? Yeah, you know. Oh, I didn't like. You thought I wasn't gonna say anything.
Speaker 2:Yeah and and it's like, but yeah, it's like these double standards. You know they're a part of, they're part of our lives, but what's the double standard that drives you the most nuts, antoine?
Speaker 2:Well, again, it's a difference of treatments. You know like I use this popular food Store as an example. You know, again, it's like a inline. You know they're just a differential treatment. But one one instance in particular and my wife and I both experienced this on in different weeks, same thing, different weeks where you pay for something with cash. It's like you'll see the person in front of you, they'll pay, money is put right, the money is taken from their hand, put back in their hand, the money is taken. I put the money in the cashier's hand and she sets it on the counter or she sets it on the floor and I'm like I put the money in your hand, can you put it back in mine? I got a no. Now I got a fumble around trying to grab coins off of this surface when you could have just put it in my hand, and it's was just those forms of differential treatment.
Speaker 2:It's a is where it just kind of burns my toast and then again but you know it's like it is some of these things are so deliberate and intentional that they are to get a reaction, and then it's like they want the reaction to justify the stereotype, and so that's where it's. Just, I have to be mindful of, and so it just it just one of those things that we was like wow, the person intended to do this to get a Desired impact is almost like an antagonization. Intagonizing type of behavior is so.
Speaker 2:I know we get the most of that in customer service. You know, like I mentioned this at an event in Salt County once, how there's a couple of places in a certain city that my wife and I, we just would never go back to because of how we were treated there. You know, in the course, in the course I greatly want to put those places on blast, but in a quarter law, to be my word against theirs, our word against theirs, oh yeah, but it's like yeah, and so it's like, and then, of course. And then someone was like yeah, they can get you for Slander too. And it's like oh, I ain't, finna, try to go to a court battle just to Point out.
Speaker 1:Know how crappy this ownership and their staff is yeah, well, and then that, because you are trying to be respectful and protect yourself, then it becomes oh, I never happened, then because you won't see where it happened, so it didn't happen.
Speaker 2:It's like well, there's more to it Right, exactly, and of course, again, it's like nothing better in the world and I would love to call out no, some nonsense like that right and and just maybe a One day I just may.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, you know. Again, it's like I say this is just. I know I jokingly say this, but it's like I think you know, when a person, no kind of, I'm not easily offended, you know, I Don't care what you say or do to me, but just you, leave my wife alone, don't disrespect my wife, don't hurt my wife. You know what I mean. Just Okay, what you say or do to me, but don't grieve my wife. That's where the problems start. I'm gonna say until you Disrespect my wife, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, and he's still working on me on that- and there's a.
Speaker 1:It's interesting because that you know that I mentioned the whole deal. If we can't know what it is for women either. I had my haircut actually, all of them I did have. Well, I was gonna just have one cut and I thought, oh, I'm here, I'll just have all of them cut.
Speaker 1:And so the, the woman that does my haircuts is just, she's a younger gal, I think about the same age as my son, so maybe mid late 20s, and she was telling me how she was, had just taken a trip to Mexico, and there were all these guys that were telling her you be careful. Now in Mexico, you know a pretty girl like you, be, be careful. And she said, you know, multiple guys said that to me and it really bothered me and it's really why? And she said, well, because being in the United States is scarier than going to Mexico. I mean, I'm probably, I feel more at risk, at danger, in the United States than I do there. And then, on top of that, who are they to say I should be careful? You know what? I'm not their property that they have to make sure I'm taking care of, so that I come back to them?
Speaker 1:I thought, boy, that you know, I never would have thought, ever that, would have thought that that would be taken that way. But again, hello Duh, I can't know what it's like, just like my, my daughter taught me years ago too. I there was a some guys doing construction work at our neighbors next door and she had asked them to do something. And they just, yeah, okay, okay, okay. Well then, when I got home at lunchtime she told me about the whole thing and I said, okay, let me go talk to them. I went and talked to them and, sure enough, they did right away what she had been asking them to do. But because she, you know, had two of those in one of them and you're like what, what is the deal? So it's everywhere.
Speaker 2:It's everywhere Just like the the same. I guess the same men that were telling uh, that young lady to be careful in Mexico is probably telling the young fellas go get them. Yeah. Yeah don't hold back, go, have fun yeah.
Speaker 1:Uh yeah, and it it's just it speaks to Just how ingrained that stuff is. I don't I don't think anyone meant anything by it. I mean, I don't know, I guess I don't think necessarily met anything nasty, but we don't have the perspective, you know it. We don't understand what it's like to be in the position where You're constantly dealt these slights that in and of themselves maybe aren't such a big deal, but you start compounding the interest on those slights and it becomes a big deal. And we have to respect that, because I, you know my, I think one of my pet peeves is not feeling respected, not feeling like I'm included in Decisions or whatnot.
Speaker 1:Or you know that I'm some I get this a lot where I'm kind of, uh, kind of downrated because of my theater background. You know. So I'm, I'm so such an emotional guy, you know, and like, yeah, I am, I mean, we're all emotional, so what? You're not emotional? You know, you're one of those automaton guys that keeps it all inside because you're strong, and then it comes out in some weird display of anger, frustration. You know, you kick the dog or whatever, I don't know, but it just it always bugs me because it's when you use somebody's personal traits as a reason to put them down. It's, you know, and what is this you know racism thing about? It's a personal trait that you know your skin is black. So I should put you down because of that? I should, I should treat you differently because of that.
Speaker 1:What really, seriously? What is that? I? I don't get it. I mean, what is what is wrong with us that we can use something as as Really inconsequential overall? I mean, the color of a person's skin Should be relatively like do they have a beard or not? I mean, really, at the end of the day, because it tells you virtually nothing. I mean, I think a beard tells you more about a person than whether or not they're black or white. Honestly, I mean, I could, you know, say, well, he wants to take care of that every day. Okay, good, good deal, yeah, all right, or what's under that beard, buddy? So? But when I so, I don't get it. It's like why, why did we pick that? Why?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, it's like when we were talking about a second ago about how do we deal with, uh, double standards, you know, and that's just uh, again, it's uh, how do we deal with it? You know, and it's like call them out, you know going, but it's like you know we have to have. You know, it starts with us having some like say, regardless of the situation, there has to be some kind of clarity on the purpose of why we're here or why we're doing this thing. You know, we'd know, um, I've kind of Prayed about, like, our theme for next year and uh, it's like, uh, we're going to be talking about doing life together and uh, so that's uh, one of the possibilities that I'm thinking about.
Speaker 2:But doing life, you know, we as White, black, green, yellow, blue, purple, whatever, uh, doing life together, having clarity of purpose, right, having a clear purpose on why we're here. And then it's like you know, what are we, our, what are we supposed to do while we're here? What are we doing for the collective good of people? And I just want to, if we can simplify some things in this life, I think we can kind of get rid of the double standards of manipulation and and and just these other kind of things. You know, and it's just going to start with, uh, people willing to. You know, we got two ears in one mouth, right.
Speaker 1:Which one did god? Intend you to use more Reason so?
Speaker 2:because you know, like, we're in a space and time where, like again, like uh, you can point out some obvious Double standards and people will take offense that you pointed it out. You know, of course, we were talking about this a couple weeks ago as well. It's like, you know, when you point out a problem, you become the issue right, right, and that's what we are. You know, it's like how dare you tell me I'm wrong when I know I'm wrong, but I'm gonna keep doing what I know is wrong because it benefits me. But you, yet you point out to me that I'm doing wrong to benefit me. And how dare you do that?
Speaker 1:I just read a story about that. There was some research done in the 50s and it's where the idea of cognitive dissonance came up. So look that up sometime. Cognitive dissonance. And what happens is they found that people who had aligned themselves and they used the example of doomsday preachers, that there have been recurrent issues where a doomsday preacher will come out and will say the world is going to end on July 15, 1988. And July 18 comes along, or 15th comes along, and the world doesn't end. So most people, a lot of people at that point will say oh, it was a crackpot.
Speaker 1:But there are also people that have invested a lot of time and energy in that person, in that ministry, in that, you know, preparing themselves. They've gotten the doomsday kits or whatever. Or they prepared their families, shut themselves off from friends that they don't want to have attachments to because the end is coming, and then it doesn't happen. So then you have this thing called cognitive dissonance, where the thing that you built all of this belief on doesn't happen. And if you're going to deal with the fact that that didn't happen, it takes a lot of work because you have to go to yourself somehow Wow, why did I believe that? What was I thinking? What? What else has been wrong here? How else have I made mistakes here?
Speaker 1:There's a lot of soul searching that goes in and instead of doing that, we will a large percentage of us will say well, pastor, something must have gone wrong, they must have been Well. So the end of the world is coming. When do you think it's coming? Did we get the date wrong? Were we doing something wrong that the Lord didn't bring? The last day and this is yes the Lord revealed to me that we did have the wrong day. The real date is February 18, 2022. And then we wait again for it to happen and then, when it happens, it doesn't happen again. Now you've got an even more hunkering down group of people that are convinced that it's not because the person that's spewing out this stuff is wrong. It's because something else is happening to make it not happen.
Speaker 2:Wow, and that's a great point. You know, of course, like people use those kind of double standards and arguments to manipulate others and get them so defensive, and so I don't know how to say defensive and committed. Deluded, they lose. I had to what the actual argument was about, what the actual purpose of the conversation was about.
Speaker 1:Right, right, I mean a little kid comes in and says Dad, dad, dad, there's a rapid wolf outside. You know, and you go outside and there's no wolf to be found anywhere. And she says no, daddy was here, was here. Well, he's not here now. And you go back in the house in a couple days. There, dad, dad, there's a mad wolf outside. You go out again, there's no mad wolf. You know, like Billy, we need to have a talk about what a mad wolf looks like and stop coming in and telling me unless there's really a mad wolf. Well then, you know, three days later, there is a mad wolf comes running and saying Dad, dad, there's a mad wolf. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, go away, go away. The kid gets eaten. Right, I mean it's.
Speaker 1:You've heard this story in a different realm, but it is the same deal that it's interesting that we we don't have any problem with those simple tales, but we get sucked up in things all the time. Amway, I probably shouldn't say that, but you know they're there. It's used as a joke a lot of times, but there are product lines that people become committed to. They invest a whole bunch of money in it and then, when stump comes up to say that's really not as good as they're saying it is. You know those, those studies are just biased. Those are that's done by researchers that don't know what they're talking about.
Speaker 1:This stuff is excellent. I've used it for years and it's wonderful. Well, if we've got that kind of cognitive dissonance over a shampoo or whatever, imagine how much more cognitive dissonance we're going to experience when it's a person that we've identified, that we feel identifies with us and understands our fears and our concerns, and you know what, what's important to us. How much harder is it to turn away from that and say you're wrong and I was wrong for following you. Time to move on.
Speaker 2:Well, we're living that out right now, brother, when we look at what's happening in on the news and in this current political environment, you know where a person won't admit they're wrong and a person won't admit they're wrong for following, and Well, you've eliminated all of the things that would help right fake media.
Speaker 1:So well, now, how are we supposed to know what's really going on? Where is, where is the non fake media? The non fake media is the stuff that I agree with, that's non fake. Well, I mean, I've had that argument with friends of mine. In many instances were said Well, that's one side that you're getting. What about the other side? How do you know they're not? There's some truth on that side too. How do you know they're just bunch of liars? Well, that's convenient, isn't it, to just wipe it all off that way. But the what's?
Speaker 1:The old Emerson phrase, the vehemence of my opponent's argument convinces me that I am perhaps just a little bit wrong and he is perhaps a little bit right. So I don't know how else to typify that. But if you can't admit that I don't know the whole thing, I haven't. I do not know what's in Donald Trump's mind. I do not know what is in John Joe Biden's mind, I do not know, I cannot know. And if I'm going to say, build a whole spectrum of hates and angers and vehemence and you know, nastiness based on something I can't know, I mean, how silly is that? Think about it for a second. How silly is that? When I have you right in front of me, I can't know.
Speaker 1:I can't know what you've experienced with African Americans experience on a daily basis. I cannot know that. But I can know you, I can get to know you and I can share. You can share your experiences with me. I can hopefully understand. I can you know. It's not like it's I have to say, oh my God, on behalf of all white people, I'm so sorry, antoine. I can't do that either, but I can say I will do what I can. I want to do what I can because what's happening to you and to I in this country is not good, it's not right. We're Americans, darn it. We can do better than this.
Speaker 2:We can, and it's like it's almost like when it comes to these double standards. You know what is actually behind it. You know what mental capacity is behind it, what agenda is behind it, what strategy is behind it. It's just what is going on in the background that you just don't know about. You know, selling more big.
Speaker 1:Macs selling more big Macs. That's what's behind it. So we're going to no, sorry.
Speaker 2:But you know what I mean. It's like you know, there's all it's almost. There is an intent behind this thing Because, again, like if we both can say hey, wow, that's wrong, but another person, like say two people can say a thing is wrong, no, it's wrong, but the other person will defend that wrong versus the other person and say why don't you just call it out for what it is? And that's where, kind of where we are, and rather than admit that we're wrong, you know, of course there's that pride of life where we say no, what I know. A person won't say I've been a, I've been an idiot for doing this or that or the other for the last 10, 20 years or whatever. No, they'll double down on the fact that they just just wish who I am and what I do and versus just saying Wow, I was wrong.
Speaker 1:Yeah, pulling out all kinds of research articles that support what you believe. You know this is scary of what's to come to. I follow a little bit Probably should look at it more but the whole idea of artificial intelligence. And Google has a new product that they're they have in beta testing right now called Bard, and so Bard like Shakespeare, the great Bard, right, bard is designed and is capable of having read basically everything anywhere. I mean, I don't know if you remember a while back, google did a thing with basically scanning any book that they could get a hold of, scanning it in and becoming Google books, and so that getting that wealth, that reservoir has now enabled them.
Speaker 1:They had a long term plan, I'm sure, to develop this AI product, and the AI product is so sophisticated already that the interviewer was able to ask I should go back and look at this. There was a series of events where he just gave like three words or five words and the AI was able to tell the story of what those five words were about and turned it into a poem. They had just, you know, different ways of tell the pros of it and the AI came up with an incredible, you know, story that explained that sentence and then came up with a poem that explained that sentence. But the scary one, scariest one was that there was a research paper that it presented that quoted articles that did not exist, quoted research that had never happened. So it was so sophisticated that it not only came up with a bunch of lies but it came up with sophisticated support for those lies.
Speaker 2:Did you hear about the lawyer that used AI to create a deposition, or something like that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, the AI based it on court cases that did not exist, or something like that, yeah yeah, it's exactly the same idea and they talk about those things as being things that they have to sort out in the programming. But I mean, at some point we have to kind of take a look at ourselves and say, ok, well, computers figured out that we do this all the time, so they've got access to all of the media and all of the subject matter out there.
Speaker 1:So let's say, oh, it seems like you know, having factual basis to your you know your references is really inconsequential. We just come up with things and make it sound intelligent enough and people will buy that. It's real research. So, and we brought that out ourselves. So there are researchers that are out there making up false conclusions. And you know statisticians that are saying well, three out of four people recommend that you use blah, blah, blah. And it's like well, which three out of four people did you test? And you know, was it where? Did you screen them ahead of time and say do you like this? Yeah, I do. Ok, well, you can be in the test then. So it's just so easy to manipulate the truth to fit what you want it to fit. And there again the double standard. It's OK for me to modify the truth because I have a good purpose in doing that.
Speaker 2:And then, of course, the state of Florida is a perfect example of that. They want to modify the truth of the history of slavery and say that oh yeah, it was a privilege for black people, it was a skill building and all these different kind of things. And it's amazing how we can put a spin on a thing to make it fit how we wanted to do, how we wanted to be. But you know, again, it's like you know, when we're talking about double standards, you know it's just like. I guess I don't want to say I guess I know that these things they have to be. We have to start meeting them head on. We have to meet them in the most intelligent way, without because again a person will argue 10 ways around Sunday to get you off of the actual point. And that's where we are. Like you know, like double standards in schools, that this just can't exist anymore. You know double standards and voting rights it just can't exist anymore. You know. Even, look at how the now, like with the colleges and universities, they stop affirmative action based admissions, but yet they still want to keep legacy admissions. You know what I mean. It's these things. They have to be met head on, and that's where I am, you know. I just like I don't want to be the angry black guy in the room all the time, but it's like.
Speaker 2:It's like you can't help but call out the wrong, you know, and yes, and am I going to be that brunt of the, depending on who I'm around? I'm a catch it from some, but, but most you'd like to think that a reasonable minds will prevail or just open minds will just listen to reason. I mean, and that's where I am, I know, of course, a lot of these things. They're just that double standard, that sense of entitlement. You know I'm wrong, You're wrong, I'm right. That narcissistic personality disorder that we see is like a person argue you down, they'll ground you into dust to prove that point, and we just we have to stop letting stuff slide, so to speak. I mean, but we have to figure out a way to do it the right way, like you were saying earlier. You know it's like how do we deal with this? You know, and so I guess that's that's my prayer going into, you know, later this week. Just Lord, how do we deal with dealing with double standards?
Speaker 1:Well, call them out, right, Look for them. You know, I don't I don't pretend to see all the double standards that are in front of me, and I would like to be able to see them. Cs Lewis has a wonderful book where he talks about it's basically an analogy of the people on a ship to heaven. And when they, when they're on the trip, they, you know, initially, you know the light is so bright and it's painful, and they step out onto the grass and the grass leaves are so sharp and just just so uncomfortable walking on and they're just, oh my God, this can't be heaven, this is terrible, this is, oh my gosh, we're going to suffer forever and ever.
Speaker 1:But as time goes on, the grass becomes the most pleasant, silky, wonderful, comfortable, cool, fresh, wonderful grass ever, and the sun becomes this incredibly beautifully warming, perfect, you know, beacon of light that it makes everything rich in color and saturates. And you know just this wonderful analogy about how we would see heaven through our earthly eyes and, as time goes along, learn to see it with heavenly eyes, and I see that with our, I think. You know, I hope our discussions are kind of a way to kind of see things differently, to be able to understand that what seems so uncomfortable is just part of walking towards what we can be. It's part of embracing what has been and realizing what has been and turning to see something better, even though it might not seem like it's better at first, but it's the right thing, so just move towards it. I don't know, I'm doing a lousy job.
Speaker 2:So no, no, no, healing. Healing hurts, right, yeah, you know, healing hurts you, you, you. I burn myself with some cooking oil just a little bit back, and it just it hurt for a few days and then it it's like crazy for a few days and it's like I'm got campofonique and cocoa butter and all these things slavering it up and it was just a very uncomfortable for a few days but it's getting better and you're probably not going to not cook anymore just because you got burned with some cooking oil, right?
Speaker 2:Right, I wish I could never have to cook again. But you want to eat? Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I wouldn't mind having somebody cook for me. I'm, I'm, I'm all over that, so, but cooking is fun we have this thing in my wife and I.
Speaker 2:we have a thing. It's pretty simple Whoever gets home first just start cooking.
Speaker 1:That's a good arrangement.
Speaker 2:Whoever gets home first, just start.
Speaker 1:I would not do well at that arrangement. I would be oh, I'll do it tomorrow. I'm really tired tonight. So, yeah, yeah, yeah, you played the real tired tonight for 314 days. Buddy, Get in there and cook something. So that would be me. But hey, man, always, always, always. Just I feel like we've scratched the tip of the iceberg, but yeah, and it's just like a but you.
Speaker 2:You pose a question how do we address and deal with them in a way that's constructive and where you're not bashing a person over the head, you're not saying, look, you're wrong, it's just pointing out the difference in the behavior or the attitude or the problem, just pointing that difference out in a way where it could be understood and seen and just uh, that's where we are and, of course, that's a you know part of the problem with a society. Now we don't know how to talk, right?
Speaker 1:Civilly, especially so we can, we can have discussions without having them turned into arguments immediately. So, and being willing to accept maybe I am wrong, maybe I am. Let me hear what you have to say. Hmm, okay, yes, I hadn't thought of it. If nothing else, if nothing else, you come out thinking I hadn't thought of it that way. Those are beautiful words. I like those words. I like you know that's a, that's a sign of a healing nation. I never thought of it that way. Hmm, hmm, hmm, you, you, you take care of yourself there. Okay, buddy, you take care of yourself there.
Speaker 2:You too, you too, sir, and a happy again. Happy anniversary last.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank you, I got that going for me too. 37 years of marriage. This woman's been married to me. What is she thinking? 37 years, yeah, she's probably seeing herself it's 37 too many, so but I'm gonna ask Ann that yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she'll say you said what so? But no, she has been a blessing in so many ways. I can tell you for certain I would not be a decent person in any way, shape or form if it wasn't for her, she, she has brought out all the best in me, sometimes with me fighting and kicking and screaming all the way, but she has brought out the very best in me.
Speaker 2:So it's a good thing. Congratulations, man, 37 years man, congratulations.
Speaker 1:I'm heading strong. Hopefully I got another 37 left. But, boy, they better make me into AI before that, because I don't think I'm going to be moving around much at that age. All right, dude, see you next week. See you, man. Same bat time, same bat channel here on. What's our show called again, do you remember?
Speaker 2:Frame of reference coming together. Oh yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1:Coming together. You come together with us folks next week, same time, same place, whatever and look for double standards, see ya.