It's time to challenge the status quo and expose the realities that are eroding the core of our society. The horrifying sequel of events in Jacksonville, Florida, serves as a chilling reminder of how deeply white supremacy is entrenched in our nation. Three innocent lives were lost, a grim reflection of the persistent mindset that threatens to push our society to the brink. As we dissect this tragedy, we delve into the dangerous, growing culture of radicalization and stress the urgent need for unity if we are to survive.
Our discussion takes on the formidable power of censorship, scrutinizing Florida's recent decision to eliminate African American Studies as a college credit. This controversial move raises alarms about the risk of manipulating young minds and a potential shift in the perception of BIPOC communities. We also confront the prevalent culture of white supremacy, tracing its pervasive influence on aspects of our society from voter suppression to religion, and the critical need for education to counter it.
Our conversation touches upon Jesus' criticism of rule-makers, the necessity of understanding His teachings, and the relevance of Martin Luther King's dream in today's context. We navigate the murky waters of gerrymandering, oppression, and power dynamics, spotlighting the importance of adequate representation at all levels of influence. Finally, we flip the script to reflect on how we can foster a global dialogue and encourage a diversity of perspectives to effect positive, lasting change in our society. Tune in, join the conversation, and be part of the change.
Thanks for listening. Please check out our website at www.forsauk.com to hear great conversations on topics that need to be talked about. In these times of intense polarization we all need to find time to expand our Frame of Reference.
It's time to challenge the status quo and expose the realities that are eroding the core of our society. The horrifying sequel of events in Jacksonville, Florida, serves as a chilling reminder of how deeply white supremacy is entrenched in our nation. Three innocent lives were lost, a grim reflection of the persistent mindset that threatens to push our society to the brink. As we dissect this tragedy, we delve into the dangerous, growing culture of radicalization and stress the urgent need for unity if we are to survive.
Our discussion takes on the formidable power of censorship, scrutinizing Florida's recent decision to eliminate African American Studies as a college credit. This controversial move raises alarms about the risk of manipulating young minds and a potential shift in the perception of BIPOC communities. We also confront the prevalent culture of white supremacy, tracing its pervasive influence on aspects of our society from voter suppression to religion, and the critical need for education to counter it.
Our conversation touches upon Jesus' criticism of rule-makers, the necessity of understanding His teachings, and the relevance of Martin Luther King's dream in today's context. We navigate the murky waters of gerrymandering, oppression, and power dynamics, spotlighting the importance of adequate representation at all levels of influence. Finally, we flip the script to reflect on how we can foster a global dialogue and encourage a diversity of perspectives to effect positive, lasting change in our society. Tune in, join the conversation, and be part of the change.
Thanks for listening. Please check out our website at www.forsauk.com to hear great conversations on topics that need to be talked about. In these times of intense polarization we all need to find time to expand our Frame of Reference.
Music let's have it.
Speaker 2:How's it going, my man? How are you today?
Speaker 1:Doing great there, raul, hallelujah. So just another great, blessed day that the Lord has made and we'll rejoice and be glad in it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, and that's when you say that, my friend, I think the topic that we have today, which was one you came up with, and when you said it I thought, oh boy. And the topic, folks, is Jacksonville. And you know, not the tourist sites in Jacksonville, of which I guess there are some nice ones, but the most recent infamy that it accomplished in the newspapers I'm not sure how to say that, but of three innocent folks being gunned down in a dollar general, and that specific instance, when you put that topic forward and I started reading about more of the particulars, my heart sank, you know. And it's just, man, I want to hear your perspective on it first, because I know the things that have been mulling around in my heart. But you know, let's get to it, right.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, of course, we, you know your heart goes out to the families and to those that actually were taken away by this action. But again, it goes back to the very fabric fiber of this country. You know, and you know, and it's said, the act itself, but it's really, really bad. But it's the thought process, the heart, the everything that's underneath is what is still. How do we say? It's a gangrene, it's a festering, it's a rottenness that's just still existing and it's starting to show itself even more.
Speaker 1:You know, of course, we live in a great country. Now don't get me wrong. However, some of the characteristics of some I say some in all caps some people's thought process is just wrong and whether, in some instances, you just can't justify, you know course, is just no justification of it. And you know we're talking about the underlying thoughts. You know country that know just maybe this is 2023, we're talking even the 1970s and 80s under Reagan. We will not be a propagandist, communist, lying country. But here we are. No, we're a country, we're this and that, like all these kinds of things, but now we're starting to see some hypocrisy with that, whereas law and order abides is set when it pertains to me and. But when it comes to what's happening in Jacksonville, you know, of course these things are targeted and people need to understand they're targeted and they're deliberate and they're coming from a different heart. And of course, no, we hate to hear that term, white supremacy but it is alive and well and active and it is getting even more evil steam and what a lot of people don't really really truly white and black, white supremacy affects us all. It just affects us differently, you know, of course. You know, with the actions of white supremacy it is designed to basically destroy the BIPOC community black, indigenous people, color communities directly. But what it does to white people is it's a continuous pounding on the head to kind of collude, and of course it's trying to get more and more people to collude and to collaborate and to buy into this thing that the country is being stolen and taken to the point where their very humanity is being crushed. And then, of course, some people even say, well, maybe it is some truth to the country being taken to us, no, being taken away from us. No, it is not.
Speaker 1:You know, and of course that's the purpose of this podcast, of course, by the way, antoine Hallman, senior Ryle of Brecht, frame of reference coming together. Oh yeah, I forgot about that, jacksonville today. And but these things, they are very hurtful. They hurt not just black people, but they hurt people of color, but they hurt white people as well. And of course, and you see, these people that perpetrate these actions, they are getting younger and younger. You know meaning.
Speaker 1:There's a radicalization of the wrong sort and again, it's just a. That's why we have this podcast just to hopefully invoke or provoke a thought of saying, hey, I just want to know the truth, I just want to know what you're thinking, how you think, why you think that way, what can I do to dispel or even correct or give you some insight into that thing that you think. And that goes both ways. Hey, I would love to hear you know what I know, I hear what you say and I'm very appreciative because, again, you and I have some dead honest dialogue and that is so appreciative. But it's we just need more people to understand that for the growth of the country and just for the survival of humility and humanity that we just need to come together. And but overall, it's just I try not to go into a finger pointing look at this group, this particular group of people, this party, this, etc. But I'll do that.
Speaker 1:This thing stems from one side. This is a one sided thing, because we talk about Florida, right, yeah, we talked about. You know, governor, this thing, this, the very thing that he has preached and perpetuated over the course of his a governorship, we see in it manifest, he manifested this stuff. You know, of course, the, the, the, the minimizing of history, or just a dilution of history, and the misinterpretation, what the direct, deliberate misinterpretation of history I mean. You can know when I say deliberate misinterpretation, meaning you can interpret a thing and then you can deliberately misinterpreted to get a rest, a desire, impact or response, and of course, that is what is happening.
Speaker 2:Well, it's like statistics right, you can make statistics say just about anything you want, you know you. Just you just have to control the dialogue, control the narrative of the, the, the, the sample collection number one. You know you can change your questions and, you know, frame your questions in a way that will lead people in a certain direction and that that becomes, you know just part of the equation of then deciding which part of that data that you get you decide to really capitalize and focus on. I mean, there's a, there's a lot of, you know, relatively insidious things going on in that process that people don't think about and they don't know how to answer.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, because when you take away like a okay in college, in colleges in Florida, african American, ap, african American studies are no longer go towards credit for college, your desired degree, right? What is that? What, what, what, what, what, what, what. What is that intent? It will no longer be taught in high schools, but it's no longer be taught as credit towards no collegiate graduation. What is that? What is that trying to do? It pursues you not to take it because you're a person that's already on the fence right why I'm not going to take a class that I don't get credit for it.
Speaker 1:Right, give me anything or account for anything, so I won't take it. And so when you again you start to take a look, you start to strip the history clean and you start to put in stuff in this place and then like again, like I said, in 30 years from now, if we're not careful, people have a whole different thought process towards a BIPOC people. Right, oh they, you know they'd be like.
Speaker 1:Oh, they are like Ron Hubbard and they came on spaceships or whatever the case may, whatever they say, and that's where we have to be very mindful and deliberate. You know, one of my hobbies I won't say hobby, but it's like one of my things is when a good book comes out or I come across an old book, I try to buy it because, again, you know, like we're banned with the book bannings and all the different kind of things, even if I can't, it's just my. I'm like we're talking how our queue of books to read is continuously growing, but it's like I buy the book because it, because I I believe that at some point it may one day not be available. Yeah, and then, of course, I say the generations to come after me and my wife is like you want them to be able to have some account of what really was going on right.
Speaker 2:Well, things get shut down, right, it goes out of print. You know, and I mean what. What I think about sometimes is with website websites and you know things like our podcast. You know, if you start saying the wrong things too often and the wrong people find out about, or the right people find out about it, it's really easy to turn it off. It's really easy to shut it down in search engines. It's really easy to just. We had a thing with a place that I work at where Bing somehow I'm not sure exactly you know how they did this, but they changed one of the entries that a vendor of ours had a site for us, that they shut down their site. So on their search engine they said we're permanently closed. So it's like we are not permanently closed. But you know, if somebody used that search engine and looked for our company, they would see that we were permanently closed. Well, you know, if we were a mail order company, that would be much more devastating than being a retail bricks and mortar kind of store.
Speaker 1:But what was the intent behind that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, you know it's. Oh, that was a mistake, oh, we misinterpreted or there was a problem in the programming. You know I mean, and you go back to the whole. You know, deal with the colleges in Florida. You know you take away the ability for that to work towards your degree credential, towards your credits in school. You're basically telling people it's a waste of your time and waste of your money to take this and, guess what, that class isn't going to be offered for very long because the attendance, the enrollment and it's going to go down so far that when they're looking for things to cut, they're going to cut those courses because they're not bringing in the student numbers that they need to not only justify the class but justify the department that's teaching that class. So it's more, it's just the same sort of thing. It's like saying this class this, this building, this, we're going, we're doing an out of business sale here for this class because we can't survive anymore. You know you could be a furniture store and you know people just aren't coming in the store anymore because they're buying their furniture from Akiah or whatever. Well, that that's going to change your whole. You know we can't employ people anymore. We can't have as many salesmen as we can anymore. So even if they start coming in the door, we're not going to be able to service them. So you got to think about I think about the mindset in that you know that says, okay, well, we won't attack directly, we'll just keep hitting on the flank. And just, you know the war of attrition where you just keep hitting and you keep hitting and you have the resources to keep bringing more and more soldiers into the equation and as you bring those soldiers in, you just start rotting, eroding, eroding, eroding, until there are very few left that can put up a fight, because the you know, the true the, the tried and true Christians, whatever you know the tried and true ecologists, the tried and true climatologists, will eventually be minimized to the point where they can become a fringe. And this situation and in Jacksonville is even more terrifying to me as a white person because it brings up this whole scenario.
Speaker 2:He left, he left manifestos for his dad. He sent his dad a message saying watch, you know, look at your computer. So he put him, he told his dad where to go to find the manifestos, you know, and then he does this whole thing of going to a black university and wanting to, you know, shoot people up there. Thankfully a security guard sees him and, you know, confronts him and gets him to leave the university. But then there's video showing him putting on his bullet proof vest and, you know, getting himself gunned up. And then he went to find a location.
Speaker 2:And let's think about the location. It's a dollar general, for goodness sakes, a dollar general. So the three people that got killed the 57 year old, you know woman that was there, the 23 year old man and a 19 year old guy, you know, who's really still a kid at that level, at that age so they're just in a dollar general trying to get. I mean, I've been in dollar generals, dollar stores, whatever, you know you go in there. This isn't high end merchandise, this is stuff that's priced at levels that you know the most economically challenged people can go to and at least get something. You know they can get laundry detergent, they can get some deals on clothing, you know, and it comes in spurts. You know, it's not like you can necessarily guarantee you're going to get what you need, but you just have to kind of keep going there and shopping and saying, oh yeah, I do need some of this and it'll be, you know, a third of the price that you would pay anywhere else and that. So here they are just doing that, just just shopping for stuff for daily life, and some guy comes in and picks off indiscriminately.
Speaker 2:You know the, the, I think I mean the only thing that seemed to be a criteria was it had to be a black person. So if you happen to be, you know, in Latinx or you know you happen to be a white person that was also looking for good deals on things, you probably were okay, you know, but just shooting those people and what is what does that take? And you've said this before, you know where the cry of a black man is. You know we we as a country are are getting more and more, you know, immune or in, I'm not sure you know, kind of closing down to hearing these messages and even the news. You know you can't hardly find anything on Jacksonville today. But if that was Columbine, if that was a situation where you know a black individual had come in and shot three white people, oh my God, you can imagine the news coverage.
Speaker 2:So when people say to me well, I wonder how many? You know white people are killed by black men every day. You know well, excuse me, but you're going to use that one as a justification for this that we should just allow this to happen because you know it happens. Well, excuse me, but that's like saying you know anything absurd about? Well, yeah, you know I, I wish that wouldn't happen, but you know this happens too to. You know, my people, french people, French people, they get discriminated against all the time. You know, come on, come on, people.
Speaker 1:I don't get it. We got to understand and and, yeah, we have to take away the fact. You know that's just a really kill the cut the kill the conversation, that this was random. It was not random, you know, it was deliberate and it was targeted. Just as in our Paso Texas when, like you said, those those places where you know minority shop or where they congregate or where they gather, you know, of course, like the church in South Carolina, you know, of course, that gentleman, he knew that that was a black church. You know, in our Paso Texas, you know that was going to be in a predominantly Latin X or Latin community, just like in Buffalo. You know that tops that community, you know. And then, of course, here in Jacksonville, you know and, and, and it's like in a predominantly black community. So it just I want to take away the fact that it it was not random, and then, of course, with the evidence left behind in the manifestos, but again it's like the, the, the things that are behind that way of thinking, you know. Again, it's like we're talking about how people like, did you use it?
Speaker 1:Actually, just on the news last night, there was a state, a state senator, a state representative, senator, whatever, from the state of Georgia talking about civil war. Now, this is a, a state official, a government employee talking about well, you know, if they prosecute him in the state of Georgia, when do I? Why do I have to go get my guns to get justice? And it's like justice is being served, you know, and it's going, and justice is a due process, you know. So, basically, but this gentleman is talking about going to get guns because, let's just face it, a crime was caught and called out and now it's being prosecuted and it's going through the process. Yeah, you know, and and and that's where, again, it's like we're in a space, in a time where you know people very people that say oh, we're all for law and order, law and order.
Speaker 1:law and order is law and order, except when it pertains to them, and this is the is it's. It hurts because, again, this is the marginalization of people. This is where right supremacy kind of rains. Now, of course, what happened? You know all throughout history what we see. You know you criticize a thing, right. When you can't control it, you're going to criticize it, yeah. And when the criticism does not work, what you're going to do, you've got to threaten it, yeah. That's it Don't work. That's when you get physical.
Speaker 1:That's a common human and we're seeing that, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't, and so I go ahead, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:No, it's just. We see the steps, you know. We see these things perpetuate in different parts of the country. Well, there are so many of these instances that we just don't hear about. We all heard of Tulsa and some people may have heard of Rosewood, Florida, but a lot of these things happened all across Florida, Georgia, Mississippi, Alabama. It's still happening in Louisiana, and so it's just we just don't hear about them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, tulsa, tulsa, the Tulsa massacre. You know that's a, you know let's talk about a blemish on American society. That's, you know, a situation where you know, look up I mean, sometimes people call it the Tulsa riot it was in fact a massacre, and you know of such that there, the incident that you know provoked it was a black man supposedly whistling, or was it whistling, or just, you know, making a lewd comment to a white woman, and then she, you know, went forward and just saying you know, this black man did this. But he was arrested, wasn't he? And then put in jail. He did.
Speaker 1:The two were in an elevator, yep, and she, he was accused of something. And then of course, a bunch of he was arrested. And then of course a bunch of white men say let's go and get them and lynch them, and all this and that, and the other than the black men in the community like no, we're not going to let this happen. Like this, Right, you know, and so in. And then there was basically in that heated stance, right, let's just use the analogy somebody dropped a pen and, regardless of what side dropped the pen, boom, there it was.
Speaker 2:And then, of course, then they, then they wouldn't get planes to bomb the place, and everything else Fire, incendiary bombs, yeah, with biplanes, you know this is how, you know that was not very advanced. They're hanging out the the side of a biplane and dropping, you know, small, essentially grenades, you know, onto houses. I mean, fires started. You can go through, you know, tulsa today and see streets where there's just steps up to houses, concrete steps that led up to the lawns, the front lawns, the front sidewalks of houses that burned to the ground, you know, and those have been left there. The land hasn't been sold but left there as a testament to this thing happened.
Speaker 2:They, you know, can do grounds, sonar, where a freeway was built, but you can still do ground sonar, and find that there are bodies after bodies after bodies that are buried in a location that I'm, you know people had to know that that was a mass grave and yet they built an expressway over it. You know, I mean you, just, I can't even get my head around the fact of how, you know awful these things are and yet we, just, we don't want to teach that. You know, we don't want people to know about that. And if you, you can't even take AP Black history anymore because we don't want, we don't want white people feeling bad about. You know things like that that happened so far ago in in our history. And let me tell you, folks, as a white guy, I do feel bad. I do feel bad that that stuff happens, but not because I'm a white person, because it happened to people.
Speaker 2:It happened to people whether it's Kosovo or Israel, or Palestine, or Kansas or Jacksonville, florida. This is people doing horrible things to people because they're allowing themselves to believe a lie that that other person is other than me, is different than me, because their skin is black, the religion is different, they're. You know the thing that they practice on Sunday mornings. I don't understand it's. You know Muslim stuff and we're Christian country and whatever you got you got all kinds of reasons there that are fed to us like corn flakes to feel you know that that that's somehow justified to otherize a person, where you can walk in to a dollar general and just start shooting people up because you've been indoctrinated into a line of thought that says that's okay. In fact, that's not only okay, but that's your responsibility to do that to save America.
Speaker 1:And man, that's. That was deep brother. And one last thing about the Tulsa situation, of course, like you know the risk, the numbers were greatly misrepresented. You know, of course, like the survivors and the descendants of the survivors all say the same thing, that there were trucks of bodies taken out of there. In the course, like when you talk about how big Black Wall Street was and how long it was, and then the surrounding communities they say, oh, 300 people were the survivors and the descendants of the survivors. Truckloads of people taken, dead bodies, dead Black bodies taken out of there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but yes and just going yeah, and so the numbers are greatly misrepresented.
Speaker 2:So multiply by a factor of 10, basically, if you want to know, you know somewhere close to what the numbers were and you can look at the population that was there before that happened and then what you were just saying how, how we were talking earlier, yeah, and how we were saying just a second ago, how, like you know, the thought process behind Jacksonville is is just bad.
Speaker 1:And, of course, if we think about that particular culture, that white supremacist culture and you just touched on it how, yes, that action was a manifestation of what is, but what about the other things that it so greatly affects? You know, like this white supremacist type of culture, it affects, you know, the various oppressions far as voter suppression and oppression, right, capitalism, sexism, class, like you said, race, gender, religion, age, it, it, it, this, this, that particular culture affects us in every single area of life and we really have to get to the bottom of it. And then it's going to be hard to do, because some people are going to fight this thing till they die, and it's like they're going to go to their graves hating and it's like, and then, of course, these same people, with this hate in their hearts, save their Christian. And that's why it's so hard for people to understand Christianity today, because of the actions that are being exhibited.
Speaker 1:You know Christ, you know he, you know we are to exhibit his culture and manifest his nature, which Jesus. He loved people, he forgave people and he gave. You know we don't see a lot of that in the Christian culture today. You know, and that's where it's getting hard. I won't, I hate saying this, but it's harder and harder to disciple people, or it's like you have to go that much. You have to, like, say to a new believer you really have to hold their hand that much more for them to get a full understanding of the Bible, you know, and before you let them go off on their own to start to try and study, because you have to walk them through that much more to explain a lot of the things that are happening today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you think about how it lines up with the word.
Speaker 2:Yeah, think about how. You know, the people that Jesus got angry with. The people that he took issue with were not the Mary Magdalene's, you know, the tax collectors, the you know the folks that were just getting by, you know, were surviving. He took issue with the people that had it all figured out. They were the rule book makers, they were the rule book interpreters, they were the ones that got to decide who was accepted and who was banished and who was, you know, it was ostracized or corrected. You know that that's the person, that's the mindset, that's the level of humanity that so many of us that call ourselves Christians and I'd be one of the first ones to say that I can call myself a car and go sit in a garage. That does not make me a car. So I can call myself a Christian and go to church regularly, but that does not make a person Christian. So we have to, you know, separate that from a Christian as a follower of Christ.
Speaker 2:A Christian is someone that really has looked at who Jesus was, what he did and says I believe that this man is on to something here. And then, you know, you start to really analyze and say, okay, well, he isn't just a great teacher. Because if this guy said what he says, what they say he said and we've got, you know, records of what he said that are within decades of when he was alive, you know, like in some cases less than 20 years the existing fragments, so we have a pretty good handle on he said this, it was recorded that he said this and this is what he said. And you have a phrase like I am the way and the truth and the life. No man comes to the father, but through me, somebody that says that.
Speaker 2:Folks, you got to come to grips with the fact that that's not just a teacher. That's either a liar, a lunatic or who he says he is. So come to grips with that. And if you want to believe he's a liar, if you want to believe he's a lunatic, okay, but call it that. You know, just understand that I don't think he's a great teacher. And when somebody says, oh yeah, he's just one of the prophets, nope, I'm sorry, can't buy that. The guy's a lunatic, that's you know. At least you're being consistent at that point, you know. Or the guy's a complete liar, because nobody could say that stuff, or you say you know, I can understand how you believe that. But I've looked at these verses and I can't reconcile them as anything other than liar, lunatic or who he says he is. And from my experience my life, my walk I have to say he is who he says he is.
Speaker 1:And you made a. You just you made a great point right when he, he said who did Jesus' most scalding words against it? What? The people of the poor right, the people of the lower life in that time? But it was against the Pharisees and Sanctuces and those guys. And then, and those are the very guys that, like you said, they called it like oh, he has a, he, he's dangerous, he has a demon, it's like. No, exactly. But also think about this and even the Bible even tells us that a lot of the Sadducees and Pharisees believed, but they would not confess them openly before fear being kicked out of the synagogue. And so look at today, you know, of course there's a because, in the grand scheme of things, there's a small group of people that that hate, like that right, but there's an even larger group that is against that thing, but they won't say anything for fear of being alienated themselves.
Speaker 2:I was thinking of that this morning, how Martin Luther King towards the very end, I think the night before Memphis happened you know where he was assassinated, that he talked about that he, he not only realized that there was a lot further to go, you know, with the road that he talked about, the things, the vision that he had when he had his I dream of, I dream speech. You know and you know the things that the, the the platitudes, the vision, the aspirations that that are talked about in that speech, which is still today one of the most inspiring speeches and is quoted by people on the right and the left to say you know, yeah, I align with Martin Luther King. I, I believe that you know, we're going to judge people by the content of their character. Okay, all right. So then he gets to the end of his career, the end of his time on the earth, and he says he believes that there there was a lot more work to be done and the thing that he feared the most was that moderate America the people you're just alluding to, moderate America was was not energized enough to really confront and do the work, the heavy lifting Cause. You know when you're talking about, you know, folks, when we're talking about white people feeling bad about what's happening to black people, just try to think about in terms. People are doing this to other people and why. Why do I constantly get redirected to feeling that that's somehow justifiable? And it's because moderate America wants to stay moderate America. And when we're talking heavy lifting, like dealing with these kinds of topics, it's like exercise.
Speaker 2:You know people can say, oh man, I need to lose some weight, I need to diet some more, I need to eat better. You know, and you know you need to do that. But you know what? Oh, oh God, yeah, project runway is on Right after I get done watching project runway, or right after I get done watching. You know desperate housewives, whatever your thing is, that you're really into the show that you really like, or the thing that you have, a game you want to watch.
Speaker 2:You know there are so many distractions that keep us from doing what we know we should do, and that's get on the bike. Or you know get. You know don't stop buying Doritos at the store and start buying, you know, some apples. You know those things are not fun, but they are the only way. You know we can't either. Or there are people that try to sell pills and whatnot, that, oh, this will turn 20 pounds of fat in one week. You know, come on, come on. You know the only way to get into a healthy shape is to do the hard work that it takes to get there. You got to. You got to realize you're going to be hungry. You got to realize you're going to hurt. You got to realize that some days you're not going to want to do it and you got to push through it anyways. That's the only way. And this is the same darn thing.
Speaker 2:On a spiritual level, on an emotional level, this is America confronting all of us confronting that. This is not okay. This is not who we want to be. We do believe that all men, all people, are created equal, all, all of them. So that being our you know, fundamental belief, as our country, as Americans, as patriots, we have to do something that aligns with that, and one of them is to stand up and say no, no more, no more killing because you're black, no more killing because you're Muslim, no more killing because you're Christian, no more killing because you're an old fart. You don't know what you're talking about, mister. So you know, make room for the young people of the world. No more, no more.
Speaker 1:And that's where the attacks are coming again, again against the visa. This created culture war because people are in a space where because, like, let's just face it, you know a lot of people in this country like, say, people of means, whether they are white or black or whatever, they insulate themselves with what they want and desire, their lifestyle, their way of life. They don't have to deal with anything outside of what they don't want to deal with, and so things happen. Or when they are, when we talk about social, racial, economic injustices, the first thing that well, it doesn't affect me, or it doesn't affect my children, it doesn't affect me because they're so deeply insulated, like we're talking about that moderate, middle of the road, american right.
Speaker 1:And it's like, if you can, it's like you can no longer just stand and sit by and say, oh well, it doesn't affect me, because down the road it will. If it ain't affecting you now, it's going to affect your grandchildren, you know. And of course. And then, with the way the things are going now, they're going to be forced to pick a side, almost, instead of us coming together in unity and just really trying to come up with solutions. People are being because we're seeing it right now, people are being forced to pick sides and, of course, like, when we talk about picking sides, right, it's like either you are of, let's just call it out, you know, of course, white supremacy has masked itself in different forms. You know, of course, like you know, when we start talking about equity and inclusion, right, people saying, oh, my kids are being made to feel bad. No, and that's just the under, that's just a surface argument to a deeper issue, because, again, white supremacy goes deep.
Speaker 2:it goes deep, deep, deep you know, and it's like when we're talking about those things like like that.
Speaker 1:It's like it's, it has masked itself. You know, gerrymandering gerrymandering as an example. You know, of course, that goal because it's about oppressing. It's about oppressing a specific group of people, to choke them out and take away their voice. And so, when we're talking about these things, it's designed, it's deliberately designed, to take away the voice and even the lives of the quote unquote minorities in this country, because some people have exalted themselves and feel that they are superior or feel like this is theirs, when that's not the case.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's really easy to think gerrymandering is no big deal when you're looking at a map with lines that are driven, you know, drawn very neatly. But then when you go to those places and you look at the streets that are being delineated as the places where the line is drawn, just you know, google map it, because Google map generally you can at least see, you know what, what streets we're talking about, what houses are on that street. You'll you'll get a pretty good idea pretty quickly of why that street was chosen instead of the one three blocks over east or west or north or south. You know it's in and I'm not the one to sit there and say you know well, Republicans are bad because they did that. That's been being done for a long time.
Speaker 1:It's all about power, you know like when they built the, when they built the projects, the history of Chicago, when you really read up on it, in like with a Mayor Daley at the time and him and a bunch of other guys, they knew what was going to happen. Like you said, this thing has been in play for a really long time. Even when they, before they built the projects, they knew what the intent was to do this to devalue that land for to sell it later. So it'll go down and we see that right now, 2023, everywhere that I, almost everywhere that I used to know no longer exists.
Speaker 2:And another piece of wonderful news the last female black woman female black, yeah, of course, a female woman I, the last black woman that was the CEO of a S&P 500 corporation or an S&P company that was listed on it, resigned yesterday or the day before. So you know, for there to just be one African American woman, you know, serving in that huge construct, that ought to tell you to something about fundamentally, what we've talked about over and over again. It's not black and white, it's not, you know, brown skin and yellow skin. It's haves and have nots. The haves have an agenda that they are, you know, seeking to accomplish and further, and we have to stop getting caught up in this.
Speaker 2:You know nonsense of, you know attacking, you know the peripheral argument or the peripheral, you know the thing that's being set up as the issue and realize that that that is the same as if we were fishing and you know we're trying to do things to get the fish to gather in a polluted place of the lake. You know you can say you know all the. This is a great fishing spot, it's always been a great fishing spot, but if it's all the sudden next to a drainage, ditch, for you know a company that's spewing stuff in your great fishing spot just got turned into, you know, a horrible place to fish. You know, in some ways, that that's kind of the way we do things. We keep on, you know, turning fertile ground like the civil rights movement into a putrid mess by coloring it in ways that make people not want to touch it.
Speaker 2:It's going to make me feel bad. They're trying to make you know. It seemed like I'm a racist. I'm not a racist. I have black friends, I, you know whatever that. That stuff, those narratives we've talked about that before right, those narratives are very carefully chosen, strategically chosen to keep us from thinking about the real issues Thought out yeah, Is it okay for people to do these things to people?
Speaker 2:Dude, we're already at, like you know, 50 minutes. As always, you know we get going on something.
Speaker 1:Closing thoughts. Yeah, just when we were just talking there, you mentioned about the haves and have nots. Right, and of course, the haves are using the have, one group of have nots against another group of have nots, saying that these other group of have nots are trying to take away what you have. And of course, this is a playbook. You know, when Nixon started to use this playbook a member, he was from California, but he started to really target the people of the South, saying, hey, this, that and the other. And we see that same playbook Because, like you hear, like, say, donald Trump he used the word we, he's like, he has no place in the South, he would if he had a choice.
Speaker 1:He, he lives in Mar-a-Lago, out of the way. But again, it's like we talked about this before how, like, say, the people that are in Positions of power are using other people as pawns to execute their strategy and their plan. And again, it's like, when we can really reach that other group of people and say, hey, when you really get that, the grand scheme of things, we are the same exact, you know, and like we say we talked about this before how people are boating against their own best interests because of this thing, because, again, this thing is maxed to look like something different. But that's why we're having these conversations.
Speaker 2:So let's think our hearts when you talk about the that name that you just mentioned and we say that he represents me. He does great things for the country. You know, I, I will, people can believe that. You know, I look at it and think, okay, I, you know, that's from your perspective, you think that's a really good thing, but I want to challenge people, and you know those who are listening that would never vote that way. Just, you know, you know, keep establishing, keep relating, keep trying to have Interactions with people that are, you know, ardent Trump supporters or are on that middle of the line where I, I can't vote for biden sol, have to vote for trump, whatever.
Speaker 2:Just think about one thing if, if he was, you know, wanting to be the head of the, you know, cio or the cf, what is it? The truckers union, afl, cio, right, if he, if he was trying to do that, or if he was trying to set himself up as a preeminent mechanic and His background was as a furniture salesman, you know, or his background was, as you know, a man who, you know, our carpet salesman, you know, a carpet beggar. Look that one up. Um, if that was his profession, would the those organizations, the afl cio members, would people that were machinist mechanics, would they let that person represent them? And of course not, because that person doesn't have any understanding of what issues they deal with on a day to day basis. They may say they do and they may be able to speak, to speak, but you're, you're just a common sense would tell you. That's not the guy that needs to represent us. We need somebody that has been walking in our, our shoes, that has lived the kind of life we have to live to understand why this pay raise, why whatever, is so important and necessary for us. So just look at both biden, look at both bitum and trump and look at their lifestyles and please, please, please, tell me and tell yourself how, how does that person in that lifestyle Understand the majority of americans and what we deal with on a day in, day out basis, how? And yet we are electing them, we are forced to elect one of them to represent all of us and to make decisions for all of us.
Speaker 2:You got to think about that. You got to think about that going beyond. I've always voted democrat. My mom and dad were democrats, you know. I believe in the republican agenda, that he does great things for the country.
Speaker 2:You got to think beyond those narratives and think about who out there. Is there anyone? I don't even know if there is a candidate out there of 343 million people in this country, is there a candidate anywhere that the vast majority of us could get behind? Because he's lincoln, he's the guy that you know grew up in a lean to in kentucky and he understands what it is, you know to to go without. He's john bainer Bainer, who you know grew up in a house, a small house, and you know kids and his family slept in the drawers of their you know dressers because there wasn't room and there for everybody have their own bed. You know where. Where are those people that we could all get behind and say you know this guy is a politician, but he still. Or this woman is a politician but she still. She understands the day in, day out battles that you and I have. Let's find that person.
Speaker 2:Let's stop playing the narrative that these you know the multi million dollar corporations that fund what is necessary to get you know on the ticket even Um, you know how do we change that around that? That should be the core thing we talk about, because we don't want to see people walking into dollar generals anymore and shooting Folks just because they happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and they happen to be the wrong color skin from that person's perspective. And I'm not arguing gun control or any of that. You know that those are different discussions. Guns don't kill people. People kill people.
Speaker 2:So, and people kill people because they're in a mindset that tells them it's okay to kill people and that's what we're getting at. That's what jacksonville should represent, has to represent to all of us. Is that? Is it okay for A person to do that to those people? Because that 19 year old young man is never coming home again, that 57 year old mom and I don't know grandma she's never coming home again. Is that okay? Is that okay for somebody to do that? And if it's not okay which I believe the vast majority of us would say no, of course that's not okay. And what are you and I To make sure that it at least decrease? We're not going to wipe that out, because the human heart is just too wicked and deceitful and you know We'll hang on to the vestiges of it's. You know what I want mentality. But yeah, god, we ought to start making progress to that.
Speaker 1:Yep, and just, uh, like, just to end, like what you're just saying, let's just like we said that that course the action of itself is not Right at all, but the thought process, the motive, the intent Is, you know, just think about those things.
Speaker 2:So here we've been talking again frame of reference coming together. I'm rawl a brush. You are young man, what is your?
Speaker 1:It's one home and see you that's right.
Speaker 2:And I call him young man because he's about 10 years younger than I am, so I get to say I'm the old guy. So, but in reality we're both old guys, right? That's just the way it is. So my friend always, always energizes me. Talking with you, I appreciate, um, I appreciate your candor, I appreciate your perspective. I, I, I, just I.
Speaker 1:The more we talk, the more I value our friendship and absolutely, and uh, that is uh so mutual, uh rawl. And again, uh, I, I just uh Attributed our relationship to just uh me is just personal growth and you know just uh to, to really be able to talk to someone. That does not necessarily we don't have to agree on everything, right, but it's like being willing to, just being willing To hear it out. And then it's like, oh wow, yeah, I never thought of that, I never saw it that way, and so I, I, just I thank god for the relationship, brother.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know just and like we keep building ourselves. This is our brand is I'm just a old white guy and You're a less old black guy?
Speaker 1:I can't that's it less old yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't live in a place with gold seats. I live in, you know I grow. You have a small house that I'm trying to get painted. You know, right now that's my. My goal for the rest of the summer is try to get one more wall painted on it. So I have no pretense other than I can tell you, from my perspective, this man across the screen from me, and twan hallman, is the real deal. Um, I hope, I hope he continues to see me that way and that I continue to be that way.
Speaker 1:The you are and you will.
Speaker 2:Folks, thanks for listening, thanks for being a part of the discussion, you know. Please go to www f or uk4sockcom. Leave a comment, leave a message, leave an argument, leave a perspective, give your frame of reference to the whole thing so we can keep the dialogue going from more than you know, more than a couple of guys perspective. This should be a world dialogue. Um so, appreciate you listening, appreciate you being with me, my friend. Uh all right, until next time, all right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, have a great one.