What if you could unlock the secret to staying ahead in the fast-paced world of modern trends and branding? Join our engaging conversation with Bogdan Paladiichuk (pronounced Bogdan Paladeechuhk), the CEO and Creative Director of the Cream Design Agency in Ukraine, as he shares his expertise and insights on effective visual communication, and the importance of understanding the context of the message. We graze the surface of the intriguing concept of translating websites into different languages as a metric for gauging a website's design effectiveness.
Transitioning from design to the business world, Bohdan opens up about the unique challenges and advantages of starting a business in Ukraine. He gives us a rare peek behind the curtains of managing creative teams, emphasizing the need for a clear vision and fostering an environment that encourages discussion. Bohdan's insights on managing creative minds are a treasure trove for anyone in a leadership position or aspiring to one.
Finally, we dive into the nitty-gritty of starting a new brand. Bohdan emphasizes the need for emotional intelligence and persistence. He shares his personal experiences and valuable tips that he has gathered over the years, making this a must-listen for anyone planning to venture into the world of branding. He leaves us with a powerful note on the importance of investing in brands for exponential growth. So strap in, because we're about to embark on a journey across borders filled with passion, creativity, and resilience.
Thanks for listening. Please check out our website at www.forsauk.com to hear great conversations on topics that need to be talked about. In these times of intense polarization we all need to find time to expand our Frame of Reference.
What if you could unlock the secret to staying ahead in the fast-paced world of modern trends and branding? Join our engaging conversation with Bogdan Paladiichuk (pronounced Bogdan Paladeechuhk), the CEO and Creative Director of the Cream Design Agency in Ukraine, as he shares his expertise and insights on effective visual communication, and the importance of understanding the context of the message. We graze the surface of the intriguing concept of translating websites into different languages as a metric for gauging a website's design effectiveness.
Transitioning from design to the business world, Bohdan opens up about the unique challenges and advantages of starting a business in Ukraine. He gives us a rare peek behind the curtains of managing creative teams, emphasizing the need for a clear vision and fostering an environment that encourages discussion. Bohdan's insights on managing creative minds are a treasure trove for anyone in a leadership position or aspiring to one.
Finally, we dive into the nitty-gritty of starting a new brand. Bohdan emphasizes the need for emotional intelligence and persistence. He shares his personal experiences and valuable tips that he has gathered over the years, making this a must-listen for anyone planning to venture into the world of branding. He leaves us with a powerful note on the importance of investing in brands for exponential growth. So strap in, because we're about to embark on a journey across borders filled with passion, creativity, and resilience.
Thanks for listening. Please check out our website at www.forsauk.com to hear great conversations on topics that need to be talked about. In these times of intense polarization we all need to find time to expand our Frame of Reference.
Welcome to Frame of Reference. Informed, intelligent conversations about the issues and challenges facing everyone in today's world. In-depth interviews to help you expand and inform your frame of reference.
Speaker 2:Now here's your host, Raoul Labresh.
Speaker 1:This is Frame of Reference profiles and leadership. This is a story about a kindred spirit from a part of the world that you may have heard of before called Ukraine. So first off, I do have to say, my guest today, bogdan Palediachuk, is, just from what I've read of him and what I've seen, not only is he a fantastic guy with a great Skype ID, mr Snick Snick, which I have to ask you about at that time at one point, but the fact that you are joining me right now from Ukraine, bogdan, is very impressive to me. You guys have been through hell and back and back again as a power in the world simply because you were trying to assert yourself as a sovereign nation, and that, to me, speaks volumes of the people within Ukraine that you are resilient and that you are not going to just lay back and let the bullies of the world attack and have no responsibility for the consequences of their actions. But, bogdan, welcome, welcome deeply, profoundly from me to you in Ukraine, to Frame of Reference.
Speaker 2:Wow, thank you so much for such a great intro. There's been lots of thanks. I'm extremely excited to have this started as well and, yeah, I'm hoping to be extremely helpful for your listeners.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you so much for being a part of this and for being willing to check in here at the United States of America, and we are happy to do whatever we can. I know we probably need to spend more aid or send more aid on other spectrums too, but I guess let's consider this my way of offering some aid and assistance as well. So, bogdan, you are the CEO and creative director of the is it cream design agency. Okay, so it's not Q-REAM, it's cream, just like the stuff which makes sense because your logo looks like a big dollop of cream as well. So, but he is the founder of that tech startup and, as such, bogdan has realized that there's a creative vision that he has that he tries to combine with tried and true UIUX design principles, and he has a mastery in sound production, videography, copyright, copywriting, marketing and, as if that's not enough, human psychology, and he has a documented history of transmording, transforming SAAS Software as a Service Products into juicy brands that stand out from an ever growing crowd. So, and as a talented creative, bogdan is passionate about monitoring and staying updated on modern trends and branding, which that alone has to move at the speed of light these days, because the modern trends. It seems like you wake up in the morning and the trends are one thing, and when you go to sleep at night, the trends can be something else completely different. Probably the only thing that's as volatile as that right now is the United States Dow Jones average. So, and that is a fantastic thing to try to keep abreast of, and it's not for the faint of heart people, it's only for those of us that are willing to stick our necks out and get hurt sometimes.
Speaker 1:Bogdan, as you may be aware if you looked at our show spec, we like to start out with something I call my favorite things, and that's just an opportunity for us and for my audience to get a chance to know the real Bogdan, not just the Bogdan that's in this bio that I just read, but the real Bogdan. So I'm going to throw out some things and need you to just be completely rorshacked in in your responses. First thing that comes up is fine. If we need to bleep out a word, we can do that. Whatever, Just feel free, all right. So, and first thing up, first thing up, and this is actually something that came up in your question. So I'm giving you kind of a freebie here. But what is your favorite tech brand?
Speaker 2:My favorite tech brand Spotify.
Speaker 1:Spotify.
Speaker 2:I love it.
Speaker 1:Okay, I love the music, I love it every night when I walk the dogs, just about. But, yeah, it is a really cool interface, isn't it? And they don't just the changes that they make to our organic changes. From what I can tell, you know, it's not. It's not like they call a lot of tension, it's just, all of a sudden there's a new little, I don't know, easter egg almost in the interface, right? So, yeah, do you find the same thing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I love how they like actually pull together the brand concept and the product itself and then it overall just creates a very like great experience. Because again, it's yes, like there's lots to talk about in the product, I believe, and how it is done for the people, so people can actually find music like really easily. There's so many cool ways you can interact with the folks. For example, you can much people can listen to the same kind of music on the same playlist just when you enter the room and you share the same Wi-Fi. So it's always been like very common thing in our office, so when they will want to play music at the same time, they can all share the music within the Spotify environment. I just think it's absolutely awesome and again, it's not about the music, it's about ourselves having this connection with each other as well. So it's way bigger than that. So I believe, like what they're doing with the product definitely has to do a lot with human-centric kind of approach and really helping people to do the best stuff instead of just shipping features. I believe what they ship is really love, I guess, for the customer or for the thing they're doing, and that's extremely awesome.
Speaker 2:I'm sure that there's a team of passionate people working behind Spotify and they are there for a very clear reason, so they're not just going to work just to get money.
Speaker 2:I think they know that they're doing the big thing and that's why we can all kind of feel it, because when people apply this kind of love to their craft, I believe it's always felt on the level of details, on the level of how far you go with inventing things.
Speaker 2:And when we talk brand, I also love like fun jacquot features from their side, for example, like yearly rap kind of review, when shows you like the stats of what you have been listening to, your favorite bands, how many minutes you listen to music to, and then you go and talk to your friends and you're saying like I was listening to music for like 40,000 minutes, what about you? And I was like 160 and you're like wow, and it's a new way to open personality. I believe. And I love, again, how they approach all these things very cohesively and I do believe that there's, practically speaking, there's definitely a clear fundamental strategy behind everything that they do, both on brand side, on the interface side, on the feature side, and again I think it's just seamlessly all comes together. So I hope they will ask me to be their ambassador one day, because I think they already can.
Speaker 1:Well, we're on Spotify as one of their podcast brands that are out there, so I would hope that this might get us higher rankings. If nothing else, in Spotify, somebody's listening. But you allude to a couple of things, too. That I find interesting and I guess I have seen this over time in my own experience in marketing is the whole quality of treating a brand like it's a person. There's a personality that brands achieve, and I think of things like the state farm mayhem they actually have a specific person. Or Mr Whipple, back in the days when Charmin had that and that brand became personalized to not only the character that's portraying it, but you could see in the acting and in the directing of the spots that they were going for a certain personality, character, traits that someone in the background was saying this is what we want people to feel about our brand. And another thing that I really kind of resonated with is the idea of that interface being very human as well, and what's interesting to me about that, too, is that iTunes and Pandora has started out arguably way ahead in the curve in terms of the capabilities that they had, the technology that they had. Even for their time the interface was stellar. But Spotify came in and they were like the horse that nobody expected to win. And all of a sudden they just hit the spurt.
Speaker 1:And I remember having Spotify initially and then kind of staying away from it and doing a little bit of iTunes, but mostly Pandora. And then I came back to it probably a year later, and I went holy crud, what the heck happened here? And at first there was kind of a sticker shock, but then, as I looked at it more, I'm like no, this is really, as you said, intuitive, right, it's something that you know that there's an intelligence behind there. That's kind of figuring out. Oh no, that's not really us. Oh, that is us. Oh yeah, that's really good, almost like a movie where you find out more and more about the character as you go along.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, it has a lot to do with their Swedish heritage and I, just when I was in Sweden, especially in Stockholm, and I saw their office and everything like in Sweden, to me resonated a lot in terms of design. They do care, they make it like minimalistic, but they make it functional and serves the people. So that was an experience. I had been in Sweden and that was the vibe that I caught. So I actually had the Instagram post where I was writing like how do I get all this design to travel around the world so all the people can see it and kind of benefit from looking at the Swedish approach to design? And I think, again, that has to do a lot with how they develop their product and that they actually pay a lot of attention into the interface itself. Because, again, always it's not the uglyness, is not the absence of beauty, it's just not attentive care to details, I guess. But that's actually like a quote of some guy that I'm not going to remember, but I really love that. It's just like you didn't invest too much effort in it because you didn't care, and that's the result of why some things are like extremely polished, extremely taken care of, because they're important for somebody and some interfaces, design or things. They can be omitted.
Speaker 2:And also, I think it also brings up a very interesting concept of how design kind of lives in different countries. What kind of design code, visual code, do all the people from different countries have, because of their national heritage as well? So, definitely, like, I want to do one day a big exploration about, like the American visual culture versus some other like visual cultures, because, for example, when you go to Arabic countries, it's a totally different style of visuals that you see all over the place and it influences the people who create there, and I think that this heritage has to do a lot with you know, kind of then what things are we looking at? And yeah, it's just like extremely interesting. That's for me.
Speaker 1:So are there favorite techniques or tools that you have that when you see a website doing those things that a lot of websites kind of copy each other, right, you know flattery. You know, as foreign flattery is copying, what are the things that you look for that really kind of make you, oh, these guys know what they're doing.
Speaker 2:I would say that the most important tool of any human is their brain. Especially in the creative field and design, I think it comes into play in very big time. So first you should have the idea, you should have understanding of what you're trying to achieve. Why are you here? This why question is always the hardest, I guess, for most people. But then you use the techniques that kind of help you achieve your goal or like realize this vision and make it come to life. So I notice usually the brain kind of behind the design, because it comes down to a very interesting thing that design is not about the beauty, it's about function as well. We call it the semiotic triangle, so it's form, sense and function. So basically, it's not making something fancy, right, it's making something that helps somebody achieve their goal. But if it's looking beautiful, at the same time it's also nice.
Speaker 2:So when I look at some websites, for example, I usually practically look at their copy first. So what are they saying? And are the visuals helping to represent what was the initial message? Because that's how we usually start the design. We use the message like I love cats, right. And then you have to use all the sets of design tools, graphic tools.
Speaker 2:In order to deliver that message, you have to understand whom you deliver it to. What's the context? Is this banner I love cats going to be standing, I don't know in front of the audience, where there's going to be 10,000 people? Or is it standing on the railway station? Or is it standing right in front of your face? And there will be different techniques, designs and approaches that would need to take place in order to deliver that message to the audience.
Speaker 2:And this is a very basic message. But I feel these things and one quick and easy fun exercise that I love doing when we're talking about the websites themselves, I would say translate the website into Chinese and if you can still understand what it is about, at least to some extent, then there's a layered approach and a smart approach of using copy and visuals and everything coming together Because, again, it's not just the words that transmit the informational message, it's the visuals, a big part, and the visuals are evoking emotions. They give this huge effect to humans' eyes and it should not be just, I believe, like chlorine mipsum. We're the default guys. You think it's doing its job, like the image can be doing its job when you're representing some people, but you take pictures off internet but the people see that this is kind of fake. But this is not real and this is what it feels like and again, I think it's a very neat and tiny thing, but just the Chinese translation, I think, would cut.
Speaker 1:That's an interesting technique. I'll have to try that with. I'll try it with our website here and see what happens. So, okay, so let's go a little bit more local and to the human side of things. Okay, so you're in Kyve right right now. Yes, am I pronouncing Kyve right? Because I hear American broadcasters all the time saying it Kyve.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's Kyve. Yeah, okay, because we have, you know, chicken Kyve. You know, here's a big thing. So that's the one experience I think most Americans have with Kyve. Is that? So, in Kyve, what is your favorite restaurant to go to?
Speaker 2:My favorite restaurant 100 years ahead. I believe this is how it is translated In Ukrainian. It's Torokiv to Mukbarat, so it means like yeah, kind of 100 years ago, but in the front direction of the time, how it goes Kind of hard to understand, like to translate because it's kind of complex even in the Ukrainian language side of not phonetics, but you know the meaning behind it. But, yeah, that would be my favorite one and actually they serve extremely good chicken Kyve and they have an amazing borsh and this is one of the like coolest chefs in the Ukraine who has this custom approach to things. That would be my favorite one, so I highly recommend visiting it if you aren't. Kyve.
Speaker 1:So is that, when they say 100 years in the future, are they trying like new recipes or are they trying new kinds of things? That are presenting things.
Speaker 2:They take the classical approach to dishes. The guy would travel like the whole Ukraine to get the recipes, but then he would somehow like a little bit modify and by modification we mean not adding, like the futuristic side of things, I guess, but using the most most old school recipes that are so kind of weird to some extent and not traditional that it becomes like a sort of fusion kind of food. Okay, so it's very interesting that it's kind of in the past and in the future at the same time, just because of the result that happens there. Okay.
Speaker 1:I don't get much chance to talk to people from Ukraine, so what is your favorite quality do you think general quality in the Ukrainian people?
Speaker 2:In Ukraine, people, the quality, I would say the authenticity, like it's very interesting cultural trace that I would say all the people that I meet are the true sort of thing. So sometimes you know, not everybody can be smiling to you from the very first glance and acting as your friends and you've known each other for long. Because that's the thing in some cultures, for example, being like absolutely nice from the very first kind of minute. And I've been to Minnesota and there's like the whole principle of Minnesota, nice and I love it. I took a lot of it into my like personal life.
Speaker 2:Ukrainians can seem a little tough from the beginning, I would say, but like they always say what they mean, they always say what they have in their mind. Sometimes we all know that, like in diplomatic environments and you know, sometimes you got to be, you know, kind of figuring things out or taking it more kind of carefully. But in Ukraine, so I would say, they're like extremely direct, open and again they're just being themselves. So that to be is one of the biggest qualities that I would say. The other one I would say is definitely like the resilience. I don't know. This country has been through hell, not just right now. It's been through hell, like history wise. There were always people trying to conquer it and there were always some kind of problems, but there was always like a national pride, the national spirit of people fighting, resisting, staying tough no matter what. So I think that is definitely like a very huge deal breaker that forms the culture quote of the people.
Speaker 1:Well, I would totally agree with you on the entire. We refer to it now. There's a lot of training and authenticity. You know that people are authentic and genuine and I always find it interesting that some of the people that preach that message are some of the least authentic people I know, because they're so concerned about, you know, saying politically correct things instead of just saying you know I struggle.
Speaker 1:I mean, I have a podcast that I do with a friend of mine, antoine Hollman, and we talk it's called Frame of Reference Coming Together and it's just basically me as a, you know, average white guy, him as an average black guy, talking about the things that get in the way of black and white people in America dealing with each other effectively, compassionately, empathetically. You know, we let ourselves be turned into sound bites, as you know, as people, and don't have that, you know, interaction that says, hey, I'm a human, you're a human, the things that Virtue untested by fire. So you could say Ukrainian people are resilient, all you want. Or, you know, politician, we are resilient people, but until you go through the kinds of things that you're going through right now as a nation, as a people, I don't think we really know. You know, and probably part of the issue, I mean, as the war started there, I wouldn't be surprised, and in fact I would be surprised if there weren't people that are like, how are we gonna make it through this?
Speaker 1:Especially some of the people in Eastern Ukraine. I mean, we see just a little bit of it, but the conditions that those people are living under it's just oh my God. You know how are they continuing? They're living in the basement of a school, because that's the only place that still has walls and a ceiling, as we say. Proof in the pudding of you saying Ukrainian people have have resilience. So again, my, my admiration for what you are going through as a country and as people is very, very deep. What about something light? What's your favorite kind of music?
Speaker 2:I love electronic music. That's definitely like my biggest passion. I used to be like into rock music I was playing in rock band but then I switched to electronic music and I think it's beautiful just because of the, the depthness of the spectrum of the again information that you can transmit. There's melody, there's words and for some people that can be enough. So using the song of the guitar it kind of makes you feel good. But, like with all this modern tools and with modern speaker systems, there's so many different sounds that you can kind of put into there that just enrich the sound so much that it gives you just incredible emotions. So for me, yeah, electronic music as a huge genre. I could definitely delve into all of them subgenres, but that is my passion for sure.
Speaker 1:Okay, do you have a?
Speaker 2:favorite book.
Speaker 2:A favorite book, yeah, I actually like Dale's Carnegie how to Meet Friends and Influence People, I believe.
Speaker 2:First of all I just like the practical books more than just fantasy books, I guess, because it's interesting to read about somebody else's adventures and it's kind of I'm happy for them, I guess.
Speaker 2:But I'm taking my time to learn about somebody else's life that is even fictional, yeah, like I loved it, maybe to some part. For now I'm trying to be super efficient with my time and use it usually for something that creates way more value for me and then for the people around me, I guess. So probably there was the book that was one of the first to me kind of the intros of understanding how other people perceive the world, potentially questioning myself like, wow, am I also a human organism that is obeying these laws of psychology, whether I understand it or not, and that was just like a quick intro. I wouldn't say like I took it to practical or serious or I actually had problems meeting friends or influencing people. I never had, but it was just a very interesting like door opener to me into the world of how human brains work and all these kinds of psychological aspects of things.
Speaker 1:I don't know that you get to do this much anymore, but do you have a favorite movie?
Speaker 2:Great movie? Yeah, I do. Actually, I would say I love Lord of the Rings.
Speaker 2:I guess, Okay, because it's like I don't know just the environment that they have created and especially in that time we didn't have like too much special effect. But actually later I also got a chance to meet a guy who was doing the visual effects for the smoke. It's a French guy and he was using such crazy techniques. He was using computer programming, mathematical modeling, just to have this scene of the smoke in one of the frames where the dragon was flying for just five seconds. He spent like a year of his life trying to make this smoke as realistic as possible, again changing the approach to doing that thing and again looking at the just scale of things.
Speaker 2:I would say I would leave it as the classic because at the time it made the big impression kind of on me. There's lots of good movies that are current ones and I would say, like Game of Thrones, I do like it. For the who doesn't. I believe it's not even pointed the discussion as for me, but yeah, lord of the Rings was kind of the first one to introduce those kind of rich environments to me Star Wars and Lord of the Rings, but I would say Lord of the Rings just because again the nights in this, this epoch was like resonating with me a lot, so yeah, what was your favorite one within the trilogy?
Speaker 1:Or, I guess, if you want to include the Hobbit, you can too.
Speaker 2:Right, but I think I love the third one, the most Okay, for sure, okay.
Speaker 1:It's interesting because it's all. I draw the comparison between Star Wars and often people say the second one was their favorite one and that. So it's interesting, when they make multiple films, how that seems to kind of go up. Lord of the Rings did seem to just keep climbing, keep climbing as it went, and I suppose that had something to with Peter Jackson's you know vision of it as well. So, okay, last question for favorite things. So is there a favorite place or a favorite event or memory that you have when you need to get centered, when you need to come to a place where you can kind of clear your head or just get back to? You know, we call it the center sometimes. You know it's a place where we can feel confident, we can feel secure again. Is there a physical place like that or a memory that you have that you can kind of go back to and draw from in order to get back to that? Still, water running deep, you know, as I say, yeah, for sure that would be Bali for me.
Speaker 2:I was living there for a couple of months and that was just a very interesting period of my life when I was like leaving the last workplace that I used to work, as before I founded my agency, and I couldn't fully I wasn't sure what I'm going to do next. I just need some time to kind of recharge, recover and be exploring things, I guess. So that was like a little bit of maybe not even the wisest move because I didn't have like lots of savings or anything. But I felt like I just want to go there, I want to explore that, and I went there with my ex-girlfriend and we had just like an amazing time. I guess I loved the whole vibe of it, the people that I saw there, and it was something like kind of unique as per me, and I also like advise a lot of friends to go there as well. When it's very like there's a lot of people come there, I believe. But for me, yeah, I did love the feeling that was there, this kind of like inner peace. It's slow, it's such a slow environment as per me, but at the same time peaceful, and that is very not typical. So I would be probably the New York type of kind of person. I love the movement, the dynamics, I love all these kind of things. So being in a place that is absolutely tranquil for quite a long time, a couple of months was an interesting experience, like you know. That showed me. Okay, why am I resisting the slowness of things in the peace or why do I stick it?
Speaker 2:There was like so many like internal validation, not because of the spiritual wise of Pobali, but just because you wake up every single day. The weather is amazing. For example, in Ukraine. I wake up, there would be sun. I celebrated, I was like, yes, son, awesome. But then you're gonna have sun for a couple of days and it's gone and you're like, oh, my god, like you know, it feels so good when the sun is out and whenever I'm working there's sun outside and beautiful weather. I do have this small feeling like, oh, maybe I'm missing out from, you know, having this experience with nature there, like it's like a sun every day and you're like, well, it's interesting. You're like I'm not missing out on that and it's just like, again, a different vibe. That is suddenly an unparalleled experience from what I have daily and that's why, to me that would be like the place of pure kind of tranquility.
Speaker 1:I lived in Southern California for a while and it was interesting because the while I was there they had, you know, a couple of cloudy days, and you know I was just soaking up. I live in Wisconsin and you know Wisconsin has, I don't know some absurd like 130 days of sun in the whole, you know. So a third of our year is sunny, and you know then the changing season, you know winter can be just brutal and sometimes it's not so bad, but it's wet and cloudy and rainy, blah, blah, blah Like. So I go to Southern California and it's sunny like virtually every day and this is fantastic, you know, just in almost perfect temperature all the time too. And then there'd be a cloudy day and it'd be like, oh, ah, seems like Wisconsin again.
Speaker 1:But all of the students that I worked with would be like, oh my God, it's so wonderful outside. And I'm like what it's like? You like cloudy days and I'm like, yeah, it's something different. And I'm like, okay, that's, that's an interesting thing to think about for a while. Right, it's beauty is in the eye of the beholder, as the saying goes. Yes, so well. So there's so much to talk about, bogdan, we're, we better get going, or else, you know it's going to be 1030 and we're not going to have barely touched the service. But let me talk about what inspired your company. Okay, tell me, tell people about cream and in the that that obviously was a point in your evolution, both as a professional and, you know, as a person. But how did that come about?
Speaker 2:Okay, very good question. Thank you for asking. So I was working as a designer in multiple agencies. I was switching jobs and doing some cool stuff and my latest workplace, before I founded the agency, was amazing because it was like a music startup and I was like, yeah, music and design coming together. And one thing this is absolutely awesome. But there were some transformations where I would have to leave the company because like I kind of got a little bit like there were too many like similar repetitive tasks and like the people were great, the salary was good and everything was nice.
Speaker 2:But I was not like kind of growing and that we was a period of thinking about you know what is even growth? Why do I want to grow? How do I want to grow? What do I want to do in life and how can I like I have all day open to do anything I can or I want to. Why do I need some external factors kind of to let me grow? And then I thought like, yeah, definitely, if I'm that concerned about growth and impact, I guess that I wanted to make in this world, I was like, yeah, I would be focusing, like design is my thing, I love it, I want to do the impact.
Speaker 2:So then I knew that, in order to become the next Johnny, I have this mass impact in the world with the design and how to spend like 10 to 15 maybe years perfecting my skill, because I don't believe in talent, I believe in hard work. So everything that I know how to do is just because I invested a lot of hours passionately into it. So I knew that I could be the best like top designer ever, ever, ever if I invested that much time. But then I was like my point is about making changes in this world. So if I actually start a company, I might be working with people who are way more talented than me already and make this same impact on the world, maybe even bigger impact to the world as a team. So that kind of to me was very interesting because, again, I felt that I knew how to inspire, motivate people, how to give them what kind of day lack to some extent in their life, and they can be having like way better skills, for example, than I do. And if we have a common vision about changing the world, putting this both pieces together would give an incredible result.
Speaker 2:So I knew the destination. I just pick the business vehicle as a more kind of fitting towards that journey of making the impact. So this is how I started the company, also to friend of mine who was doing sales and I was like, yeah, I know the design, you can do the sales part of things. I will help you kind of figure out how we can start from there.
Speaker 2:And yeah, we started going together and it's also been an incremental part of PowerTony because we're already working for slightly more than four years and we were always drawing, you know, kind of learning new things, transforming as personalities. And I do believe that really entrepreneurship comes with so many things that you have to figure out as you go and even if you're smart and wise and you have all this bunch of experience, there would always be some kind of new things, new challenges in the way that you have to overcome to become a better person first of all and then a better interpreter and to make a better impact. So that was to me how like we started, why we started and how the journey has been from my personal kind of perspective of self development.
Speaker 1:Well, you touched too on it. You know, I guess I do believe that there's a bit of talent involved in each of us and I. But I really think talent is about passion. You know, talent is something that is fed by, you know, a person having talent and then having sort of an inherent ability to be able to explore that pad. And I think of it in terms of the arts, you know, and there are people that have auditioned for plays that I've directed and I'm just like, oh boy, you really need to pick something else to do because you just don't have the talent. And yet if they are willing to work, you know there are people that don't have a ton of talent but they work so hard at it that become technically very competent actors and actresses. They can become technically decent singers, you know, they may not have the vocal timbre that a really, you know, stellar person will have, but they can hold their own, you know they can. They can do character parts or whatever and really be memorable. So that same thing seems to translate in what you're doing, that you do have that, that passion, you know, and you've developed that passion through a series of creative choices and whatnot, and professional choices, but at the end of the day, hard work there ain't nothing. Like, you know, 1% inspiration and 99% sweat. You know of just getting through things.
Speaker 1:So is there something that you would tell someone that is wanting to follow? You know they have a similar kind of thing, they have a product, they have a thing that they want to get out there. And you know I'm with you, brother, changing the world because the way the world is could use some decent changes. You know, and I think about my generation and you know the things that we are bequeathing to your generation, and I want to do what time I have left. I want to do something to move the notch a little further so your generation doesn't have quite as hard time, and part of it is, you know, getting rid of some of the nonsense, arrogance that's going on.
Speaker 1:But I'm curious with you talked about, you know, starting your business. Is there a difference in terms of just how you would, how you start a business in Ukraine versus how you would start, you know, a company in the? You know the free capital, the free enterprise capital of the world here in the United States? Do you have to get insurance? You know. Do you have to think about corporate structure and articles of incorporation. You know, are there, are there all those kinds of things, llcs and you know, versus nonprofits, like they're on the US? How does that?
Speaker 2:work. Thankfully, thankfully, I had to figure out all these things kind of later on when we got bigger and we had way more versus sources and I could invite smarter people to help me out with that part, I guess or like people who are more competent in that I love the creative part of it. I don't really love different parts of other responsibilities.
Speaker 1:I got people for that, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and yeah exactly, it's amazing that you can rebalance somebody and have everybody doing stuff that they like and that they are good at. Mine is the creative part. So, yeah, I believe if I was starting in the more of a kind of complex regulation wise country, it might be a little tougher to start because, again, we just started pretty much with the laptop and just freelancing website and some connections that we had, and we were doing it like very like moderately low key, low amounts of things, not like I was the salesman and the designer the first place, and then then we started expanding and trying to figure things out. But yeah, I think like it's definitely easier to start in Ukraine, at least for me, than starting already again with all these formal process, regulations and things like that. So, yeah, thankfully the flexibility here was enough to start off small and then build up the proper kind of structuring of things as we scaled.
Speaker 1:So I would think, in your line of work too, the kinds of things that you're doing, that your clientele is probably global, right? I mean, it isn't just Ukraine. You have, I would think, people in US, Czechoslovakia, wherever right? It makes me think of the folks that helped me with my website. For frame of reference. I'm in Lithuania, you know, okay, why not? So, and that to me, is pretty cool. I mean, we think of the old days. It was like, oh, I knew this guy in Madison, but there's another company in Milwaukee, you know which? You know. If you look at a map of Wisconsin, you'll see those right away, I think. So Good. So I know where Kiev is. That's it, so you know. And towns on the east, I just have no clue. You know they're just boy, some of the places they're fighting over, like I had no idea that place even existed. So what, what is there?
Speaker 1:You know, as you're developing now you talk about creative people, and I talk about creative people as well, too. It can be difficult, I think, working with creatives, you know it's oftentimes I use the analogy of, you know it's herding cats, you know to get folks to rally around the same thing, and everybody has their own ideas right. So you end up with some people sort of dominating with their ideas, especially if there isn't a clear vision for creative folks. You know, I've at least in directing things I've found if I don't have a clear vision of where we're going with a production, it's usually a recipe for chaos, whereas if I have a clear vision, but I still have gaps where I haven't quite figured it out, but I've got, you know, something that I need input on that that can be really helpful. Do you find the same thing, or their techniques? You've learned that dealing with creative people that have been really profitable or in positive for you.
Speaker 2:For sure, for sure. That's a very interesting topic that you brought up. I believe that, yeah, creative people, they are different. They need a different approach and different setting, different kind of management, different everything. Then I would say, like people, they're purely pragmatic in their approach In any way still people, but yeah, the creative part behind it influences the type of the brain that you're dealing with and all these kind of things. So I, as I was working with, for example, brand designers and then product designers, I actually even noticed a huge difference in mindsets of a brand designer and a graphic designer in the way they see the world and the way they think about things. So, thankfully, I was creating myself like the whole time, but actually I come from there, I would say like more even analytical part of the creativity rather than just pure again pure artists kind of kind of thing, because there's people like that as well, like the pure artists or maybe somewhere more practical. So I kind of knew what environment I needed in order to deliver the greatest result possible, to do the coolest things possible, and that was one of the biggest factors why I started a company. I wanted to create the environment for the creative people that will be freely expressing all the potential that they have inside of them and they can unleash it in the best way possible.
Speaker 2:So I am also doing like a management in not very traditional way. We don't have this clear vertical structure. We try to keep things flat. So pretty much everyone has their opinion, everybody has their ideas, and there's not like I'm your director and then you listen to me without saying anything. I'm saying like you should learn how to speak up. You should learn how to facilitate a like negotiation, a discussion. You should even see if somebody's falling back from the discussion or not being that loud. You need to support him in bringing that opinion up as well.
Speaker 2:So again, and also not being bounded by anything. So from my side I can come in with super clear directions to designers that I need this, but I know that he's not going to enjoy it that much because he doesn't have anything on his own that he added to this kind of idea. He only technically executes the decision and the person has to have their own part of the idea inside of it. So we were always trying to find this kind of management approaches and ways, how to set things up so everybody can speak up. Everybody can do the best that they can and then also benefit from it, I guess. So yeah, providing the right environment, the right, I guess boundaries, and given the good space for the creative people to open up their potential and unleashing extremely great things, rather than just thinking of them as I don't know engineers or somebody that is purely doing the technical work. There's a different approach to too many things, and again, there's a different in the mindset that also comes into play on various levels.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I find it. I guess this is me personalizing things with creatives that I have worked with when I'm in a creative mode and I've told people that I work with, where I'm surrounded by pragmatic people and very folks that are very data and not just data but very concretely oriented. So for them, when I come up with a crazy idea that's way out there, they're always like where did that come from? Are you? You're from the planet Mars or what? And like, yeah, kind of I mean kind of. You don't want to tune into that. But the thing that I try to tell folks in that spectrum is you have to understand that when I put an idea out there, it's something coming from me.
Speaker 1:So when it's coming from me and you treat it harshly, or you are skeptical or you are, you know, off-putting with that presentation that that's really hard, it's hard for me and it it has to do with I think you've alluded to providing a safe place that creatives need, a safe place where they can feel like they're going to put things out there and they're not going to be judged or, you know, shot down.
Speaker 1:Worked with groups before we talk about the umbrella of grace, you know, as we, as we do this process, let's put an umbrella of grace around us. Let's, let's fill and build a cocoon that we're all going to work within. And you know a lot of it has to do with trust and respect and basic human values. But when you find a creative that hasn't been in that environment, it's super sensitive to any kind of critique or any kind of, you know, a redirection of a creative idea. Do you find that those are? Do you have, do you have, techniques that you try to make that people, that person, feel like, hey, it's okay, I'm not rejecting you, I'm just saying I think we need to work that idea more For sure.
Speaker 2:My one of the uh founding designers that it was like, uh, early on in the beginning of our journey she was like very sensitive and she was like more of the artist's vibe, the UI, graphical design, like a visual aesthetic kind of person, and she was very sensitive like to all the kind of feedback that she had. So I would have this course where I would present the work to the client and then he would just destroy it. He would say, like this is just, oh my God, I don't like it, it's ridiculous, it's horrible, even though, again, when you talk about subjective things, it's very, also kind of funny, right, because you show somebody else and say, like this is the best thing I've ever saw. So I know it's subjective, but again, it also took me some kind of levels of experience to not take it personally, but then I would receive all this bunch of negative feedback. So then I have to come to her and let her know that everything she did is wrong and I was like, okay, I need to be very delicate with everything. So again I was like the client loved everything, it was extremely good. There are just small things that we would like to change to make it even better. So we have a rectangle, we needed a circle over here. She was like but rectangle is not a circle. It was like, yeah, but so I've you know. Then I'm coming in to play, to talk her language, in order to kind of explain to her you know what's happening. But from super positive kind of frame framework, I would say, and just like, slowly, slowly, slowly, step by step. Because, again, like, if I would just tell the feedback to her face, you'd probably go crying then. Just, you know, maybe even have a trauma in her life that like, oh my God, I'm being rejected.
Speaker 2:Because it takes a lot of maturity for artists like that and they have to acknowledge this, training themselves in order to overcome it and then understand that if there's somebody looking at this world differently than you, it doesn't matter, it doesn't mean that you're better or somebody's better or somebody's correct, it's just different. And you're like effective design. In the end of the day, it's not subjective, actually, it's kind of objective. When you see something like I don't know, like the iPhone, there might be some people's sale who would be just like ah, I hate the whole thing about it. But most of the people would be like yeah, like it does look good. It does like kind of its thing in the kind of right way. It might not be as superior Somebody would say it does, maybe it's not, but still like.
Speaker 2:I think like again, there's a very interesting thing that when something is like good but not perfect, there can be some debates, but some things are just like perfect and ultimate for everybody else. So I think it also has to do with some high numbers and then the golden ratio thing. Maybe it has to do something with that and some deeper levels. But yeah, when something is like slightly slightly more like sharper, bolder, it can be debatable rather than something safe and absolutely correct.
Speaker 2:But again, with sensitive people, I always try to put myself in their shoes, try to like use my emotional intelligence and understand how can I bring this conversation up in order? So I don't actually twist the information, I don't really screw it, I don't like lie or anything, but I just deliver it in the way that is safe for the person and then I try to then open up. So when we're going to be laughing in the end of the day I can in the end of the call just say like haha, actually, client like hated all of it and yada, yada. But I have to come to that point with you know, kind of the approach to the person. And yeah, it's been a very interesting and transforming experience for me to how to communicate with people in order to have their feelings not hurt. And yeah, yeah it's so difficult, right?
Speaker 1:Because sensitive people are often so hard on themselves that anything that you know feeds that, you know, internal, almost self-contempt. You know contempt. You know that artists that I know they're visual artists in particular they put something out and they just have this kind of flow of just this creative energy. They're throwing things out and then they look at it and go it's crap, it's all crap, you know, and it's you know. You have to be careful that you're not feeding that part of their own personality. There's an old song by Bing Crosby that I love the lyric of it. He says you got to accentuate the positive and desensuate the negative and don't mess with Mr In Between, you know, and it's just. It's such a phenomenal lyric when you think about not only human interactions but, I think, creative interactions as well, right?
Speaker 2:So yeah, that sounds very interesting.
Speaker 1:So so time for one last question. Okay, do you have any tips that you would have for somebody starting up a new brand? You know somebody that has a new thing, a new idea. What would you tell them getting on without? I don't want you to give away too much, because I want them to come and be your customer too at the same time.
Speaker 2:So For sure. So I would say the biggest tip is starting with a strategy, understanding your whys. What are you trying to build the brand, or whom you're trying to build a brand? What are you trying to get with it? The second part addition to that would be it's okay to start without a brand. It's not a very common thing to say, especially from people who do branding, but it is okay, you can start without the brand. The thing is, you're probably you are either consciously building an image of yourself or it is built automatically, so you probably want to use that in your favor. So, yes, it's okay to start without the brand, but then you might want to still have it, because the first impression has never a second chance to happen, right? So I believe that, especially when you have this initial wave of launch in something like telling the world about it, some people, if they see that you didn't invest too much into branding yourself which means you didn't define who you are, that didn't define your personality, cannot express it in a very precise way, then they're going to have, like, all this alteration. I'll turn to perceptions of yourself.
Speaker 2:So I would say, yeah, start caring about the brand, about why you exist, as early as possible. It's okay to readjust, to kind of transform yourself when it's needed to. It's also an important part of the journey. So, yeah, having a brand is definitely extremely powerful to make the opinions of the people serve the business function that you're pursuing and to help you go up faster, because, again, it's always like kind of exponential and the brand can be this factor that actually contributes to this exponential growth rather than going linear. And again, I just wish everybody persistency. There's no elevator to the top. You have to take the stairs always. But in the end of the day, the sooner you invest in all these things and especially the brands, the businesses they're down for human, the more you care and the more you invest into the human that you are serving. And it happens on the brand levels when, again, helping them think about you in the proper way, deliver the information that you need to deliver in order to get the effect. The more you are customer centric, usually, the better it is and the better the planet actually is.
Speaker 2:If everybody would be caring so much about the person that is right across the table, right, and this is going to be using their product, the world could be better. So this is also one of the visions of our company. Inspired game changers, right. So inspire people who are making a change so they have this aha moment and then they also start bringing this world. Because I think if everybody would be working towards making world a little better place at the point where they have their personal or professional competencies, it would leave an amazing world without the people who are trying to do the absolute opposite, which is kind of where we started, right. So the war is destruction. Creativity and making more of a better place is about creating, is about life. So this kind of counterbalance, I think kind of sum things up. But yeah, a quick tip just just do it as Nike says.
Speaker 1:Brand quote right, you said it in a beautiful way. If you want to be an inspired game changer, folks, bogdan is your man. So, just just talking with you, bogdan, has been so wonderful to be able to have the sense of your enthusiasm, your passion in the face of the things that the Ukrainian people are dealing with right now. You know it can be pragmatic for us to think, oh, war is hell here in the US. But when you say war is hell, war is hell, and you see directly, there has to be an alternative. There has to be an alternative. I think of it.
Speaker 1:You know one of the particular political personalities here in the United States. There has to be something better. I keep telling friends of mine that are, you know, on both sides of the spectrum, like there's three hundred and forty three million people in the United States of America and these are the two best people, the two best people that we can put up there for us to vote for. I believe the American people deserve better and I believe the Ukrainian people deserve better than you know. An autocratic nation deciding I want part of that country and then going out and, you know, taking it just in human standpoint. You know the world needs to take a stand against that sort of thing and say, no, you know, that might have been one thing in the 17th, 18th, even the 19th centuries, but for God's sakes, people, we're in the 21st century now. We are a globally connected species and we need to get it together. Get it together.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we are all here in the same boat, I guess. Part of one thing, I believe. So thank you so much for inviting me over and thank you for your thinking. It's extremely awesome to talk to a creative Like yourself.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you, folks. My guest today has been Bogdan. Palladia Chook, palladia Chook, palladia Chook. Yeah, there we go, palladia Chook, I'm going to. I got to get it, I get it, I get it right. Bogdan, did I get it right? Close at least. Yeah, you did, you did. It's very close, ok, I don't want your, your mom and dad to be listening or something. Oh, my God, that American, you can't say his name, right? So of course, they'd say in Ukrainian, not like that. But the emotion, the emotion would be there, right? So Bogdan is the CEO, creative director of the Cream Design Agency. I want to encourage everybody here to go to the URL wwwthecream, and that's Q? U or Q R, e, a, m, so thecreamcom, and you can go and do forward slash brand quiz and get a little bit of extra fun there, right? So anything else you want to throw out to the our listeners and viewers today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure. Actually, we'll just mention about the brand quiz. You should definitely check it out because it's just a short questionnaire about understanding is your branding in the right place? Do you believe the same things about the branding that the branding extras believe? So it's just this and that's actually is looking super fun and super playful. So I do recommend to check that out and have some value from there Because, again, if the world would be full of the conscious brands, I think the planet would be a better place to be.
Speaker 2:So I'm only like encouraging to do as many things possible and help you now as much as I can. If you ever need any advice, any free advice. I'm a person first of all, not even the entrepreneur. I would happily like give the advice is just talk and meet the game changers personally, as we're having this conversation right now as well. I believe it's going to have a lasting kind of impact on what we think about the world and understanding how others see the world. So, yeah, as a person, I'm extremely valuable. As a businessman, I'm extremely inspired to do creative things. As a brand, we are conscious to inspiring the game changers to have more change in the world happening. So thank you so much for tuning in and this amazing combo. It's been fun.
Speaker 1:Thank you for joining us, bogdan, here on Framebook Reference Profiles and Courage. As my French heritage would say, bon chance, bon vie et vive la Ukraine. So I hope best wishes to you, all. My prayers and thoughts go with you all. Please tell all your friends and family, all those people, that you have at least one person in the United States that does see the vision of what Ukraine would be after all of this nonsense is done. So thank you, thank you, thank you so much for the support.
Speaker 1:Thanks for joining us here on Framebook Reference Profiles and Courage our profiles in leadership, courage to today. Actually I thought of John Kennedy's book there subliminally. But thanks so much. Bogdan has been my guest now. We've been talking about everything and anything under the sun regarding creatives. I hope you've learned something, or at least part of what I've learned today talking with them. Take care all.