Prepare to be enlightened by the inspiring Justin Janowski, a seasoned leader and coach. Justin, who was born and raised in Mukwonago, WI and has a fondness for the color blue, shares his journey of establishing the groundbreaking organization, Faith2Faith Influence, designed to empower “coaches” to build their dream businesses and amplify their impact.
As we stroll down the lanes of nostalgia, we explore the magic of childhood, the wonders of technology, and our shared passion for Elon Musk's Tesla. We then steer the conversation towards the essence of leadership, underscoring the role of humility and impact of words in shaping a leader's influence. Grappling with terms like "literally," we delve into the nuances of communication and how it can often be misinterpreted, while also emphasizing the importance of context in communication.
Switching gears, we examine the art of influence and sales, where Justin imparts wisdom on the fine line between teaching someone and aiding them. He shares his philosophies on sales, honed through countless conversations and mentorships, underscoring the importance of an authentic leadership voice. We wrap up our discussion by drawing an intriguing parallel between influence and manipulation in sales coaching, with Justin’s key takeaway being that success requires faith and persistence. Join us for this enlightening conversation, packed with invaluable insights and wisdom.
Thanks for listening. Please check out our website at www.forsauk.com to hear great conversations on topics that need to be talked about. In these times of intense polarization we all need to find time to expand our Frame of Reference.
Prepare to be enlightened by the inspiring Justin Janowski, a seasoned leader and coach. Justin, who was born and raised in Mukwonago, WI and has a fondness for the color blue, shares his journey of establishing the groundbreaking organization, Faith2Faith Influence, designed to empower “coaches” to build their dream businesses and amplify their impact.
As we stroll down the lanes of nostalgia, we explore the magic of childhood, the wonders of technology, and our shared passion for Elon Musk's Tesla. We then steer the conversation towards the essence of leadership, underscoring the role of humility and impact of words in shaping a leader's influence. Grappling with terms like "literally," we delve into the nuances of communication and how it can often be misinterpreted, while also emphasizing the importance of context in communication.
Switching gears, we examine the art of influence and sales, where Justin imparts wisdom on the fine line between teaching someone and aiding them. He shares his philosophies on sales, honed through countless conversations and mentorships, underscoring the importance of an authentic leadership voice. We wrap up our discussion by drawing an intriguing parallel between influence and manipulation in sales coaching, with Justin’s key takeaway being that success requires faith and persistence. Join us for this enlightening conversation, packed with invaluable insights and wisdom.
Thanks for listening. Please check out our website at www.forsauk.com to hear great conversations on topics that need to be talked about. In these times of intense polarization we all need to find time to expand our Frame of Reference.
Welcome to Frame of Reference informed, intelligent conversations about the issues and challenges facing everyone in today's world. In-depth interviews to help you expand and inform your Frame of Reference. Now here's your host, raul Labres.
Speaker 2:Well, welcome to another episode of Frame of Reference Profiles in Leadership, and we've got a wonderful show in store. I can tell already I have a feeling for these things. That's why I'm such a successful podcast host. I'm a really successful host. We try to specialize here at Frame of Reference in not only giving people a new Frame of Reference but, as the title suggests, profiles in Leadership Also to talk with guests that have something to say of significance over leadership, both in the roles that they have in their business lives or personal lives. But in today's case, our guest is not only a leader in and of his own initiatives, his own life, his own business, but he teaches leaders how to be better. Leaders Under the auspices, too, have, I think, one of the best ways to think of a leader as a coach. And so I'm speaking of Justin Janowski. Justin, thank you so much for being with us today. So appreciate it.
Speaker 3:Thanks for having me on the show. I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm looking forward to our discussion, if for no other reason than the fact that we're both from Milwaukee, so, or at least the Milwaukee metro area, right? So let's hear it from Milwaukee. So it's actually a two-syllable word, right? So people don't get that. But I have friends that went down to Louisville not too long ago and I said well, you know, when you get down there you have to say lowville, because that's how they pronounce it down there. And they're like oh, you mean Louisville. And I said, yeah, don't say that, I'm trying to give you an insight. Check. Same thing with Milwaukee it's not Milwaukee, it's Milwaukee so. But I'm from the south side, you're from a McGuanigo area, am I remembering that, right?
Speaker 3:So yeah, I grew up in McGuanigo in Waukesha County. I live in Shorewood now just north of Milwaukee.
Speaker 2:Right near UW Milwaukee, then towards the campus. Yes, my son finished up there a couple of years back with a bachelor's degree at UW Milwaukee and I was so thrilled to have somebody in my family return to something of my stomping grounds. But so McGuanigo, yeah, my, actually I have something there with McGuanigo High School, some familiarity, because we, when I was in college working on my theater degree, one of the gentlemen that was a graduate from there was a teacher at McGuanigo High School. So he had me come and actually direct some a small play there at the high school. So, and I honestly I think up until that point I don't think I've ever been in McGuanigo, which you know when you live in Milwaukee. It's pretty big area, right. So, yeah, so we're starting out, but I want to give a little bit of background.
Speaker 2:So Justin is, as I said, has helped hundreds of coaches to build their dream, dream businesses right from the ground up. He's driven by his faith and he founded an organization and a website even you can go to find out more about that organization and business called Faith to Faith Influence, and it helps people to learn what it takes to turn coaching into a profitable business venture. He's guided Christian and non-Christian coaches alike through the rewarding process of optimizing business models, pricing and sales strategies so that they can scale their income alongside their impact. I love that phrase scale their income alongside their impact. You know, because so many leaders, I think, forget about you know it's. It is, yes, about turning a profit. You can't see a business if you don't turn a profit, unless you're independently wealthy and can just carry on forever, right, but that impact is so important, the impact that we have on our staff, the impact that we have on our customer base. So I love that you have that passion for sharing a process that you've discovered, that you've developed over time, which you know not to be anything other than, I guess, from a common sense standpoint or from a spiritual perspective of myself, your process is one of those kind of well duh, you know things for me, you know, I look at it in the precepts that you have and we'll go through those 10 principles it's just when you look at it altogether, it's like, well, why wouldn't anyone do this? I don't get it. And yet businesses after businesses, after businesses don't, because profit is the only thing that matters, not the impact. So thank you for that, thank you for that work and I'm looking forward to discussing it more. So I hope you'll enlighten me, if nothing else, right, and our listeners.
Speaker 2:But absolutely we have to start with our favorite things. I wish I had the royalties to Julie Andrews singing the, but it's not in my budget yet. Maybe someday. But we'd like to do this part of the show just to kind of get things rolling, hopefully break some ice, get you and I to know each other better. But I'll just throw out some things and I may get really wacky and come up with your favorite book cover, whatever. So don't be surprised if it comes with something you think well boy, I never thought about that before. That's good, that's exactly what we're going for. All right, so let's start out with something easy. Favorite color my favorite color is blue, any reason particularly, are there things that you associate with blue? Or do you buy blue cars, blue shirts?
Speaker 3:Well, I'm red green colorblind. Oh really, it's not like severe. I can still see a lot of reds and greens, but sometimes the colors in those arenas blend a little bit more for me or less distinct Blue stands out as very distinct to me. I love the blue sky. Mcgowan to go high schools colors were blue and yellow, so I wore that growing up playing sports. I just always liked the color blue and I do happen to have a midnight blue Kia Telluride. That's our family car.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay.
Speaker 2:So again, you're probably drawn to those. Let's go over and look at that blue car over there, sweetheart. Which makes sense, you know? And the kids will get to an age where they're like Dad does it all have to be blue? Come on, can't we get a red car? Yeah, but I actually have one of my son's closest friends, since he was a young child, has the red green color blindness as well.
Speaker 2:He tried the glasses that supposedly give you better perception of the colors. Did you ever try those as well? No, I haven't. Okay, it was interesting. He did try them. It was actually a gift from a cast of people that we worked with and I thought it was very sweet. They all collected, you know, money. People chipped in and got them the set of glasses. He tried them, I think, for about a week, and he said you know what? I don't know that. I want to get used to that. I've already adapted. You know through how I see the world. So to do this is like why do all that work? Great, well, there's $400 down the drain. Don't tell anyone in the show. Okay, that would be bad. How about a favorite quote? Hmm.
Speaker 3:A favorite quote. I know for a lot of people they probably have one that they just love, that they hold on to. Well, there's things to it. I suppose I'll go scripture and just say for God to love the world that he gave his one and only son, so all who believe in him shall not perish but have eternal life. That's the most important quote.
Speaker 2:You know, that's such a convicting quote too. You know, when you talk about well, you know what is different and you know how does the Christian faith differ. And I remember my son in middle school asking that about things, and he said you know, dad, it just feels so judgmental, it feels so, you know, exclusive, exclusive, like we have some sort of club or what not, and it's a well, you know, ultimately, Joe, it's not, it's not ours to judge. That's not what we're called to do. We're called to be witnesses and we're called to be truthful testifiers of what he said, not anything other than that. And that's then up to people to make their decision for how they would respond. You know, I had like, is it? I forget the the oh gosh, I should know that off the top of my head. But the author that says you know, at the end of the day it's he's either a liar or lunatic, or who he says he is.
Speaker 3:That's you know, you really don't have other options.
Speaker 2:Right, You're.
Speaker 3:Christianity CS Lewis.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:The good one.
Speaker 2:Isn't it McDowell that has the book too, where he kind of puts the guy that started Intervarsity. He, I think he put some feet to that as well. I remember it. Anyways, how about do you have a favorite bird?
Speaker 3:Hmm, do I have a favorite bird? I don't know that I have a favorite bird, but what popped into my head in this moment is an owl. Hmm, if I thought about it longer, I'm not sure that's the answer I'd come to, but I'm going to give my gut reaction of the bird I saw on my head when you asked the question.
Speaker 2:Well, you know that's okay too, right we, uh, you might think about oh gosh, why didn't I think of the state bird of Wisconsin?
Speaker 2:Right, right, no, owls are really interesting, you know, one of the few animals that can turn their head as far as they can, uh, you know so almost like the mom who's here has eyes on the back of her head, right, uh, owl doesn't have to have them in the back, they can look back there. So, um, and I, you think of the, you know the wisdom of an owl, right, they're always, uh, what Isn't an owl? One of those two that, uh, the flock of owls called a college Is that? Am I remembering that? Right, oh, the college of owls.
Speaker 3:So that's interesting. That might that might be true. I'm one of the reasons I may have gone to owls because I loved Harry Potter growing up. Oh sure, uh, those books were so much fun for me and, uh, so, thinking of like head wig Harry's owl and they carried the post in that world to people that carried their mail, um, that's kind of a fun vision of owls.
Speaker 2:Well, there's such a wonderful mystique about owls, isn't there? You know, they just, uh, they're so regal and they do look very, you know very, intelligent. It's like what is what's going on in that owl's brain? Are they going? Oh my gosh, these people, why are they so annoying? Uh, you know, of course it's an owl, so we wouldn't understand it. But uh, how about? Do you have a favorite memory from childhood? Is there something that you think about that? Uh, you really like boy, that that go, that takes you back to a really good time and place and whatnot.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what I remember, and it is coming to mind now, is just riding my bike around the neighborhood and not having a cell phone, uh, not having an email, not having the internet, um, but just simply riding the bike around the neighborhood with my brother, with my friends, stopping at my friends' houses and just walking up to the door to knock on the door and ask if they were home and ask if they could play, not knowing what the answer would be, and, um, and just having like that simplicity and that freedom. And I feel like, in a lot of ways, while I appreciate the gift of technology, which allows us to even do what we're doing right now, I miss the simplicity and the ease and the freedom of, uh, of that world.
Speaker 2:Yeah, isn't it interesting that, as you say that I think, of all of our technology, so much of it has been marketed, if you will, under the um auspices of being, of connecting us, um, making it easier for us to connect to one another? And I'd have to agree with you, there was a in that simplicity. I believe there was a greater degree of connectedness because you were face to face you. We all learned the nuances of communicating with one another and all the nonverbal clues that are there that you can't, you can't really replicate in, certainly not in Facebook, you know, or in Twitter, you know. Those things are just, it's not part of that vocabulary, um, but yeah, it's. Uh, I remember we talk about calling for people. I remember being outside of friends house and and yelling, oh for David, and you know, and it was, the parents said, oh, your friends out there again, and uh, right, you know you think about that and it's like these kids were like oh my gosh, what were we thinking?
Speaker 2:But uh, do you have a favorite car? Yeah, I.
Speaker 3:I had a three year lease on a Tesla uh, model three. I loved it. It was really fun to have. I've got two little kids at home right now, three and five, so, uh, when the lease was over. Moving on to the, the Kia tell you ride, but our family car uh, we can carry more people. Uh, but it was the only car of my life was ever I ever had as a dream car, was that Tesla. I'm not really a car person, but when I wrote in somebody's Tesla for the first time, it was just different and I loved how it felt and it was the only dream car I ever had and I'm I'm grateful that I had the opportunity to own it for a few years and enjoyed it, and I would still call it my favorite car.
Speaker 2:It's interesting, isn't it, that, um, uh, elon Musk is kind of informed by that Apple um, I'll call it the Apple aesthetic. Um, so there's a lot, you can see, there's a lot of, um, kind of synchronicity or perhaps a, you know, an affinity between an Apple product and a Tesla product, just in the design, you know, there's a sleekness, there's a, in a weird way, a humanity to it. That you know, you, you I don't think I usually think of futuristic things having that, but contoured the seats even, um, did you? You know you have the SUV, they don't. They have now a nicer, a bigger SUV style Tesla.
Speaker 3:They do and I'm not, uh, not financially in a position or mentally in a position. I don't think to spend that much on a vehicle. The model three for Tesla was, you know, relatively economy. You know it's not like it's inexpensive, but uh, I think to. To buy a model three probably cost $35, $40,000. It's not too different from like a Kia tell you, ride that we got Right. Um, it's an expensive car. Super grateful to be able to afford a vehicle like that. But the model X is going to cost you $100,000. And uh, even if we could comfortably afford that, I'm not sure how responsible or good that would feel to buy.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it would be a dream.
Speaker 2:Yeah, isn't it interesting. Yeah, when you think about the, uh, well, yeah, I wonder what. What will happen now, you know, the advent of solid state batteries and and all of the things that are likely to change there. What are they talking about? Something like a 700 mile radius distance and being able to charge them within 10 to 15 minutes, you know? So that that's. Just seeing that on the horizon makes me think, oh, yeah, it's coming, whether we like it or not. So, um, so, I hope, I hope we get to that point soon. Of course, I still I'm a Star Trek person at heart, so for me it's not going to be over until we have warp drive. So, uh, and teleporting, I I still think a transporter is a really good idea, so I'd love that. Oh, wouldn't it be nice to say okay, let's go to Paris tonight, sweetheart. Okay, we're in Paris, so that would be just fine. Do you have a favorite thing to do when you have some free time? You have a hobby or just something you enjoy together, family or not, I guess.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm going to throw out two things that I've just loved my whole life, which are sports and games. I love watching and playing sports. I love playing games. Um, my, my wife and I love a game called terraforming Mars that we play with my older brother. It's very geeky and like super complex, but for somebody who wants complex strategy, it's amazing. We love Southerners of Catan. I love chess. Like you know, it's one of my favorite things to do is just play games chess with people across the world on chesscom. That's a cool technology, because you can't play chess by yourself, and so being able to access people that way is, I guess, a way to be a little bit more connected. So, love, love playing games, love playing sports and watching sports. That's just always been really fun for me.
Speaker 2:Now you look to me like you were potentially a soccer player. Was that your your special for, or were you a football player? What? What's your?
Speaker 3:um, I actually played a lot of different sports growing up, so soccer was the first sport I played when I was probably four or five, but then I went on to play in high school football, baseball, basketball and tennis my first year of high school and I played football and tennis all four years. Actually, in McWanaggo we won the state championship for football division one and it was the first McWanaggo team to win a state championship and that was really fun. So it was fun to be a part of that team. And in tennis you know, tennis is something I still enjoy today. I play softball today, so be now tätäats next month. Yeah, I'll play just about any sport and have fun doing it.
Speaker 2:Yeah it's well, it's interesting. I am not a sports person at all. I I grew up. At nine months of age I had polio and it crossed my eyes. So then I I never developed binocular fusion. They were able to uncross them by that time I was four years old, and you know, you just that's the time where you have to develop that right. So I was the kid that couldn't catch a ball for the life of me, you know. And so whenever we had, you know, bombardment, pick up or whatever, I was the last one, you know. So that'll, that'll kind of change your self respect pretty quickly.
Speaker 2:But yeah basketball, couldn't play football, just, you know, no Compensation for that. So I ended up going to theater. That was my yes, you know, my my way to get that full workout. Because that, you know, I tell kids that are in theater, you know, just because there were a lot of oddballs, for the most part, I tell them regularly. You know, you, you have an opportunity to do a sport that actually is not only physically very demanding, if you, you know, really take it to the the next level, but it's intellectually demanding. It's, you know, requires things of our speech and whatnot that you don't really get to do it in most sports. So you're gonna have to be clicking on all cylinders if you want to be good at this thing. So I always appreciate that.
Speaker 2:So I appreciate sports. I wish I could do them better. I think there. Yeah, it is an awful lot of fun. Probably the only thing I could have ever done is what running I think I tried cross country for a while, but soccer did you? You know that the Milwaukee's getting a soccer team right. There are soccer stadium.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I've heard about that. That's exciting news and and, by the way, I do want to mention that I, if I could go back, would love to have been in theater. I, along with sports, and it's hard to do it all we can't do it all right, but I, my favorite form of art is is Acting movies, plays, theater.
Speaker 3:I think all that's so much fun and so interesting, so I think it's super cool that you have the opportunity to engage in that and and really fun. And I will say, regarding soccer, that while it's, it hasn't historically been my favorite sport. My favorite television show right now is Ted Lasso.
Speaker 2:Oh, isn't that a wonderful show.
Speaker 3:Yeah, oh, my gosh yeah yeah, a lot of, a lot of Cussing and an f-bomb. So if you're, like, concerned about the language, you know it's not for kids, but the message behind it there's so much love and heart and I feel like it's a story of love and forgiveness, almost like a secret little Jesus story For the mainstream. It's just edgy enough for the mainstream, but it's. It's a show about people, but it happens to be a soccer show also well, I love the fact that Ted is a person with Personal struggles.
Speaker 2:His life is not perfect in any way, shape or form and he's just doing the best he can, you know, and he's not letting it turn him to cynicism and, you know, just being a jerk like so many others, he keeps trying to see the best in things, you know. And, yes, it's amazing how I find that over the, I've only watched like parts of the first season, so, and I have no excuse for not watching more, but it is one of those shows were right away. They just they clicked on all cylinders at the beginning of that show and had that real sense of this guy is like so weird, so out there, but you can see it's like an infection, you know he's, yeah, he's a viral agent in the. You know, in the midst of a culture that just wants to see that die and, yeah, I really enjoy that. So, okay.
Speaker 2:Last question Is there a a Thing that you think about the? I Guess I want to see it as a place, and we talked about that a little bit, I think, with your, you know, wanting to ride the bike around as a kid, and that that's a good place to be, but I guess I'm. I'm thinking of those, those things that ground us more than anything. It's the, it's the stuff that when we I think of people like that meditate, you know, then they have that, that thing that they do that helps to just center them. Is there something like that in your life? I would gather. I know the answer there, but I'm not gonna put words in your mouth. So what? Yeah?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean definitely time with God and prayer and in time in church and the scripture can center me and remind me of who I am. My wife's really good at centering me, so she's she's a person and a place I feel like. Okay, and we had a Special morning today. We've got three and five year old at home and Parents who are listening know that when you've got little kids, mornings can be chaotic and they're not your own in the same way that they they used to be.
Speaker 3:My, my kiddos stayed over at my mom's house, grandma Holly's house, last night, and so this morning my wife and I got up and there were no kids in the house and we were able to. We, we, we just got our deck redone in front and we just last night Built these at around deck, rocking chairs for the front deck. Oh, we took us like three hours and we started building inside, but then we were concerned that if we could complete the project inside, that the chairs wouldn't fit outside the door, so we had to bring it outside to the last few steps. Outside was kind of cold, but it was a satisfying project to complete last night and this morning sitting on our new deck on our new chairs that we built.
Speaker 3:Looking out at our neighborhood with a cup of coffee for her and a cup of tea for me, and just like Relaxing there together, felt really special. And so that's that's not maybe the answer long term. Who knows, maybe it will become that one day. I imagine, like as an empty nesters I was a man I had this like brief glimpse of what it would be to just have mornings with her again someday. Sure, and that felt special. I love my time with my kids, but that felt special to imagine and I felt that peace and that groundedness this morning.
Speaker 2:Boy, isn't it, it's, it's. It's something, too, that when you've tasted it, that we crave it. We long to go back to that place and yet it's. It's almost like you know the peaks and valleys, right, that to me, that's a mountaintop experience, you know. But the valleys are part of appreciating the mountaintop, right? So I don't know a lot of people like, boy, I love being the dire straits of a valley. I, that's just, that's where it all happens, baby, you know. But but they really are. I mean, the, the folks that I know that can't Appreciate the valley don't have as great an appreciation of the mountaintop either. So, okay, so on we go and we, we have to pick your brain, as it were, about this whole thing called leadership, and I noticed that right away in your, your handout. I, what, what should we call it? It's a, it's a piece that you can get right from your website. Just yeah, we.
Speaker 3:I think that we call it the the coach's playbook. Okay, it might be being rebranded a little bit, but if it's got our free 10-step sales process and it's got some other leadership and sales content for Coaches and Christian entrepreneurs, is it okay if I share the link of how people can get that?
Speaker 2:Oh, yes, please. In fact, I was going to ask you to do that at the end of the show anyway, so let's do it a couple times. That's great, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so if, if somebody wants this, as we're going through, it's good sales PDFcom, dot com, good sales PDFcom, and it's going to have sales and leadership strategies for Christian coaches and entrepreneurs.
Speaker 2:And I just found the cover of. I printed out a black and white copy of it, but yeah, the cover does say 10 steps, 10 steps sales process, the coach's playbook, and put up by faith to influence, www. Faith to influencecom. So, and I Like how well. There's a couple of things that start off in that for me. One is the leadership arc. You know, when you talk about, um, humility is our ally and that that is, uh, Boy, if there's one thing that seems to be lacking in so many of our leaders today, whether they believe, political leaders and, frankly, church leaders, I think you know, suffer the same obstacles of just remembering. It's not about, uh, anything other than making sure that that humility is your ground point, right? How do you, how do you translate the people that that come in with a degree of arrogance about, yeah, I'm gonna make this thing happen and I, this is going to be the best thing since sliced bread. Um, you know, and you can just tell their hearts not really in the right place, right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, the first thing that's coming to mind to share about my experience with that is in the, the space that I'm in is like an online coach. We see so many marketers and coaches who bring A tremendous amount of certainty and and it's certainty is effective In marketing, it's effective politically actually, the more polarizing we can be, sometimes, the more Following we can get. The more extreme we can be, the more following we can get. And there's this arrogance and ego that that seems to sell and influence and affect people so much.
Speaker 3:Um, whether you're a supporter of or you dislike, uh, president trump, his, his calling card was that like arrogance, that ego, that certainty and people listen to certainty and I I pay very close attention to communication and I just hear so many leaders in the marketplace Market with the certainty that airs on the side of arrogance and ego, and it's not attractive to me that that form of communication, uh, if it's not balanced in humility, and oftentimes I hear people say things that aren't quite true. A funny example I think about is how people use the word literally. People are like you know, michael Jordan is literally on fire. No, if he was literally on fire, people would be panicking. If you stop dropping rolling. We'd be like try to put him out, you know better find an abc fire extinguisher as quickly as possible.
Speaker 2:Right, right.
Speaker 3:You could just say Michael Jordan is on fire because we know you. It's a figurative thing, so literally is the exact opposite of what you're trying to say, when? And most people use literally in exactly the wrong Um situations. That just makes me chuckle, it just amuses me, it doesn't bother me, but I pay close attention to what people say and oftentimes people who have too much arrogance Say things that aren't quite true. But they put enough belief in certainty behind the way that they're saying it that they might convince themselves and others that things that aren't true aren't true. And I just don't really like that in the marketplace, I don't like that in marketing, I don't like that in sales. I like the truth to be transparent and real. And, uh, for me, the most compelling communicators do have a certain confidence and certainty about the things that they know. So they're not in false humility, but they're balancing out that confidence with the humility and knowing this that they don't know at all and that they've been given a gift, you know. And so for me, I know that, like I am, I'm confident in who I am as a leader, I'm confident in who I am as a person, I'm confident in who I am as a coach and I know I'm a great salesperson and I also have enough humility to know that there is so much I don't know and that all the things that I do have that are good came from God and he just Showered a blessings upon me and he's just given to me and given to me, and given to me. And so In the leadership arc, in the context that you're asking about Humility here, you know we're talking about going from ignorance to awareness, to transformation, to mastery, to leadership.
Speaker 3:In any skill set whether you want to be great at art or or dance, or sports, or music or Sales, business, anything that we want to be great at we all start out not knowing how to do it until we gain awareness of how to do it, and then we have to transform that awareness through action and practice and Effort again and again and again, and eventually we can reach a level of mastery and someday we might say I want to teach other people how to do this. And if we are arrogant, we're never going to go through that process. We're not going to reach the layer after layer after layer of mastery that we could reach and the thing that we want to be great at, because we'll Think that we're already too good to receive leadership from others, to receive ideas from the people around us, we'll close down the opportunity to learn, or maybe we won't be willing to do the hard work to get better Because of that arrogance. But if we're humble and we say, even though I'm pretty good at this and I've got maybe a natural skill set or a developed skill set, I know there's another level.
Speaker 3:I know I can learn from them my peers. I know I can learn from the people who are maybe I'm providing leadership to. I can learn from the people who are above me, who've done things longer than I have or have different ideas. If we we show up with that kind of mindset, we're willing to continue to put in the work. There's always another level of mastery and we can continue to get better. And so I just value that level of humility balance with confidence in other leaders, and that's what I want to reflect in myself and what I want to bring forward and and I know it's necessary to learn and grow to have that?
Speaker 2:Sure, well, it's, it's uh. Isn't it too Interesting how humility builds a thirst In us? Yeah, you know there's a. There's something about that recognizing that I don't have all the answers, that I I am not complete yet you know that it does make you want to take the next step towards, I think, take. It wants us to take the step, the next step, to figure out the next challenge, to figure out the next part that's missing. Um, I think I did just say my wife has done that a lot for me over the years too to be able to say Um, this, you need to work on this.
Speaker 2:And with the wife. You, you are very transparent with your wife. I, I know I am, and she, I can't hide Uh any more from her than I can't hide from god. That you know. Yeah, that that is something I I should be working on, uh, and you know, instead of who are you? You have a lot of the stuff too. You know, lady, you're not as obedient as you could be.
Speaker 2:That one always gets me too, because, you know, people quote, my wife isn't very obedient. You know, have you read the other part of that verse where it talks about husbands Love your wives as christ loves the church and gave himself up? So it'd be white and blameless. I mean, if you do that part, I don't think you have to worry about your wife too much. So Right, kind of shuts people up when you do that. So Well, can we talk a little bit about the sales process then too, that you, you have this 10 point um outline for doing things, and you know, starting with the state and working through the, the six o's of closing and it.
Speaker 2:You know that that sort of thing has always struck me as formulaic. You know that that what people sell is. I have this great formula that, if you, you know, learn my formula, you'll be a better seller and but they usually put that you know and it'll be you have to buy my 10 chapter book, and each chapter will focus on these things, in order for you to find out about my 10 step process. You put it right out there, which, to me, is you know, okay. So do you want to sell something or don't you?
Speaker 2:So, tell me, tell me how that sales process started for you. How did, how did this develop over time?
Speaker 3:Well, let me speak to putting it right out there and this is for other Coaches, or service based, information based kind of entrepreneurs If we teach our best stuff for free and then we have ways for people to, to buy and scale in their intimacy with us and with the content and with the community, like people are going to be attracted by receiving great content and they're going to want more. And so you know, one of the things that rossel brunson talks about is the idea that In multiple levels of our programs or offerings, as a coach or an entrepreneur, we can be teaching the same things, but the delivery is different. And so the delivery of that 10 step process, it is free. It's a really awesome Lead magnet is what they would call it in my industry, where if somebody wants to get that 10 step process at goodsalespdfcom, they have to put their email address in to get the process sent to them. Well, now they're going to get an email of my podcast and they're going to get an email with our newsletter and occasionally they're going to get an email saying, hey, we're starting our next sales school class, do you want to come join us? And that is something that they have to pay for and it it's a it's a significant cost. You know, someday we might have the book for $15 that you can buy on the sales process. I'd love to have it. So it's the same thing, but now it's a different delivery and there is more depth in the 10 chapters and there is on that page with the 10 steps and then, as you you know, scale into like our sales school program. We're meeting and talking on this every single week in a group call for six months, like really focusing on the next level of mastery.
Speaker 3:I believe that great coaches should be like great radio stations and play the hits. We don't need a hundred different pieces of content. We don't need something new all the time. We just need to deliver the same thing Again and again and again, in slightly different ways, to help people achieve mastery. And so I just want to want to share that. Of course, I want to make sales and what I know is if I can deliver value to people on the front end, they're going to say I could use some more help with this.
Speaker 3:Just like if you wanted to Teach somebody how to act and, like you, you ran a free one-hour Podcast episode on the best tips you know about how to act. Just because somebody heard that podcast episode doesn't mean they could do it. If you told somebody how to ride a bike but there was no bike present when you told them, it doesn't mean that they're gonna know how to do it. If they've never done it before, they might want you to teach them how and pick them up when they fall and give them the nuance and all those things. So I would encourage people to you know it's. It's almost like when you went go. We used to go to the mall food court and people would get food samples out in the front like great, like that's gonna real me. If that tastes really good, I'm gonna come up and get some more food, and so I.
Speaker 2:Sarko got me on that one all the time boy.
Speaker 3:Absolutely Okay. So back to the sales process, though. I've been in sales since I was 18 years old, and so the sales process was developed through thousands of sales conversations and you know a couple dozen probably great mentors over the years that I've had and known and who taught me a lot about sales, and so it's taking some of those lessons I got when I was 18, 19, 20 years old and my first sales jobs. The things I learned throughout my 20s and then, like getting into the coaching space, the things I learned from my mentor is Jake Merriman and Ben Skemper were really helpful and me learning a sales process that could be really effective for high-ticket coaching sales.
Speaker 3:And then it was like an application of hundreds and then eventually thousands of those sales calls, finding my nuance, finding my authentic leadership voice inside of it and also recognizing that maybe what some of my well-intentioned mentors and leaders wanted me to do in sales Didn't completely fit my value structure. The way they would want to respond to somebody saying I need to talk to my wife about this, and how they might want me to handle that objection and close the deal on that call without that person talking their wife Didn't really line with my values. As a Christian, I felt like it was appropriate, if people were gonna make a five or ten or twenty thousand dollar decision, to go talk to their wife, and you know I wanted to still hold them To a place of like, truth and ownership of their part in the decision. But I wanted to create space for that, and so you know, there's just so many influences that you know contributed to what this sales process is today.
Speaker 2:Well, you bring up an interesting Idea that I've thought about too, you know we had. When we have a process like this and I think see that with the company I work for, the we have salesmen on the floor all the while, all the time, and they have their, their stick right. There's their their whole process that they go through, and a lot of it is just asking why and why and why and why, so that they can get out what the customer is really looking for. What do you do, I mean, if you only get to point five? It strikes me that that's really hard for salesmen. As you say that you know they want to close the deal. It's really hard to just let go at five when you know that the best is yet to come. Right. How do you both tune into that as a salesperson but also respect that for your customer so that there is a later engagement, because that's what we hope for, right, that this is enough now. We'll give them time to digest it and hopefully they'll come back right.
Speaker 3:So sure. Well, I do care a lot about tempo and time On a sales conversation. I know how much time I have scheduled for specific sales calls and Oftentimes it's 30 minutes. It might be 60 minutes. Those are different kinds of calls. Is a different process for 60 than it is for 30? Same steps with different level of depth. We also get hired to do sales for million and ten million dollar businesses, occasionally at live events where they've got hundreds or thousands of people there and there's so many people wanting to have a sales conversation after they make their big offer from stage that we need to have three to five minute conversations, using like an abbreviated version of this process.
Speaker 3:So, I kind of know how to have a five minute conversation of influence that helps somebody make a decision and how to have a 55 minute one there. There are quite a bit different, so I want to know how much time I have going into it. But I also don't waste a lot of time in things that maybe sales people have done in the past, like rapport building, just like small talk before getting into the sales conversation. I spend like 30 seconds there, 60 seconds there. I know some people will spend 20 or 30 minutes just small talking, so it would be no wonder that they couldn't get through their sales process. To me that small talk is. It can be and I want to say this lovingly but it can be a waste of time and it can be a form of sales avoidance. It can be something that the sales rep does under the guise of building a relationship that just prevents them from having to get into the real sales conversation, because a lot of people fear that part of it and they think it's gonna feel bad for them or for the other person, and what if they get rejected? And it's scary. And I've just kind of reframed what sales is and I believe salesman done right. It's just making it easy for the right people to say, yes, it's love, it's coaching, its leadership, with an invitation and offer at the end of it. So I'll get in the rapport in 30 seconds 60 seconds and then set a pre frame for what's about to happen in the conversation and then get right into it. And I've gotten pretty good at leading the conversation To the point that we can. We can get through the 10 steps the vast majority of the time when I'm on a sales conversation. But if I was to be cut short and like they all of a sudden were like unexpectedly, oh my gosh, I've got to go in five minutes, I don't have time for all this, then I might say, okay, awesome, I totally get it. Why don't I ask you just a couple more questions and share a little bit about what we're doing To see if it makes sense for us to have a second conversation? Does that sound okay? And then I'm gonna get very direct. I'm gonna ask them a couple key questions that help me understand if they're fit for me, and then I'm gonna share, like, some key bullet points about what we do and how we help people so they can determine if I'm a fit for them. I'm gonna say does this sound like Something you might be interested in? Does it make sense for us to have a second conversation? And if so, I'll book that call right now. And I just believe in ending every single sales conversation with yes, no or the next call booked.
Speaker 3:What I don't want is somebody be like, oh, we got to step five. And they're like, oh, no, I got a run. I'm like, okay, cool, I'll follow up with you some other time or next week or whatever. And then if I text them or call them or email them and they don't respond, how long do I wait before I message again? And then what if they don't respond to? How awkward is that? Well, maybe they didn't see their email.
Speaker 3:Am I going to spam? Should I reach out in there? It might be an annoying. Am I being persistent? It's, it's very tricky. It's almost like, you know, dating for people who've, like, dated in recent years, like it could be so messy, wondering who should communicate next and have I been too Forward or when? How long should I wait? So like I don't want any of that game. That's not fun. Sure, I want yes, no, or if they're thinking about it, there's a process to be had. I just want to make sure I end this call with the next conversation, already booked on the calendar. That makes everything really easy and removes all that awkward follow-up.
Speaker 2:So, along with that I know you talk about influence, right that, and, yeah, there's a it strikes me that there's a process going on here of wanting to influence the, the way that the person that is framing this conversation or the service that you offer and I appreciate that you you talk about that as being the art of influence you know how your personal identity, your emotions, your stories shape and your ability to influence others. Can you give me some more insight into that? What does influence look like to you and at what point does influence become manipulation? You know doesn't become because it.
Speaker 2:It strikes me that there is a degree of, especially in the political range, where influence gets turned into a very I want to say almost a diabolical, you know, tool. You know marketing can very much do that. Where we're just, we're really trying to influence and get people to something that if you're not Responsible and have integrity in the purpose of that influence it I think of like it's acting. I mean, actors are tremendously good at influence people to think, well, this guy's really not all that bad. I mean, okay, yeah, so he's stabbing people regularly. I mean, come on, you know, dexter's really a nice guy, right? So right, that's. That's dangerous to me, I and it's not your responsible, right? So how do you? How do you do that? How do you make influence responsible?
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, what I'm what's what's occurring to me now is when I think of influence and manipulation. Both are about helping people make decisions. Right, there's like a thread of if you're really influential, you're helping people make decisions and if you're really manipulative, you're helping people make decisions. So, whether you're influential or manipulative, you might help people make a voting decision. You might help people make a buying decision. As a salesperson yes, a leader you might help people make a decision on an action that they're going to take. If you're a health coach or A nutritionist or something, you might help people make a decision about what to eat for your breakfast tomorrow and Dinner after that and whatever else. So I believe that both really just deal in the arena of helping people make decisions, and I believe it influences helping people make a decision that's in their best interest, and it's just a very important part of how we make decisions and how we make decisions. Manipulation is helping people make a decision that's in your best interest. So if I want to manipulate, I've got my outcome in mind, rather than what the other person needs, and my goal is to help them make a decision that serves me.
Speaker 3:If you've seen Wolf of Wall Street or any of the old school sleazy sales movies that create a bad reputation for salespeople. You've seen people who are genuinely scamming other people to make money. They've got commission breath. They just want to earn for themselves, and it's at the expense, oftentimes, of the other person. That's manipulation. Helping people make a decision for yourself.
Speaker 3:But, on the other hand, if we can ask good questions to help people make a decision that's in their own best interest, that helps them get more of what they want or become more of who God created them to become, that's influence. That's a good thing. That's really nice. If your health coach helps you lose weight and grow in your energy and get better sleep because of decisions they've helped you make that we're in your best interest and that fit the goals and themes of your life that you wanted to pursue. Their tactics, while similar to what a manipulation tactic could look like, were very effectively influential. So again, it comes down to the intention of the person who's in the position of influence. Are they intending to help or are they intending to hurt? And if we're intending to help and we really care about the other person, I think that's influence instead of manipulation.
Speaker 2:So I need to be respectful of your time too, and I know we're coming up on the hour that you and I have scheduled. Is there something that you would say a general precept or something that you start right away with a person that is trying to learn to be a better sales coach. That's sort of the foundational element that has to be there and that a person has to ask themselves.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean I'm going to give a few quick things. If you want to run like a coaching business for anything like first is we have to have a clear mission statement. To me, the mission statement is who do you help? What problem do you solve for them and why does it matter? And if you know I help blank, do blank. So that blank, like that mission statement, forms a basis for your whole business, for your marketing, for your sales, for your offers, for everything else you do, then we need a clear signature offer Like here's how we're going to work with people, over what time frame and how much is it going to cost.
Speaker 3:Once we have the mission statement and the offer with the price point, then we can start to consider sales and ultimately, like I would tell people, transparency in sales is really important, like, if we're just transparent, we're going to have a lot more success. If we ask great questions we're going to have a lot more success. We don't need to have a great one liner, we don't need to solve the objection. We just need to ask better questions and genuinely listen and care about the other person. That will make a big difference.
Speaker 3:But another piece of it is what you call the art of influence that we referenced in that book, which is making sure that you feel good enough to perform that. You like that mustard seed of faith in yourself to be bold and be courageous. And just like get the reps in. You're going to be better at your 100th sales call than you are at your third, and it doesn't matter what you do between number three and number 100, you're going to be better. And so we just need to stick in the game and like get the repetitions in and focus on developing our skill set and loving people along the way.
Speaker 2:So, folks, my guest today has been Justin Janowski. Justin is a coach of coaches and a leader among leaders, which I really appreciate. Justin, in our short time talking together, that's so apparent that you have very much to offer to anyone that wants to seek it out. So we can go to faithtoinfluencecom right, that's one place to find out more and about some of the events. You have an event coming up in mid-November, don't you, if I remember right?
Speaker 3:We do. Yeah, we've got a workshop. Are you launching this podcast episode right away?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it'll actually be up on Friday. Friday or Saturday, I'm sure.
Speaker 3:Okay, if you're listening to this, right away, within a week of it being launched, we've got a special workshop coming up for people who want to launch a coaching business. You can go to F2itribecom slash launch. That's F, the number two, the letter I tribecom slash launch. We're running a free one hour workshop on how to go from idea to launch in your coaching business. Okay, thanks for asking about that.
Speaker 2:No problem. So, and then the other site that you talk about going to to get the coaches playbook again. What was that? Yes, Goodsalespdfcom.
Speaker 2:So lots for people to learn, lots for people to grab a hold of and chew on right, yeah, we may not be building rapport as much as we are building what do we really have an appetite for Ultimately? Remember, beef prices are going up. So thanks so much, justin, for your time. I hope you have another one of those mornings with your wife on the deck very soon, although I suspect it might be the spring before we get another 60-some degree a day. But that's okay, it's Wisconsin. Maybe you could build a four-season porch, you know whatever around that right? So take care, my friend. I hope you have much, much richness in so many ways. So I appreciate your time, thank you.
Speaker 3:God bless you. Thanks for having me Take care.