Ever felt hemmed in by the rigid nine-to-five grind? My latest conversation with Bohdan Palladichuk, the mastermind behind an innovative Ukrainian design agency, might just be the breath of fresh air your workweek needs. We tackle the art of blending productivity with personal time, unlocking the cognitive secrets to boosting creative output. Bogdan's approach is not about clock-watching but about nurturing a team environment where flexibility leads to flourishing, both professionally and personally. Grab a coffee, and let's wade through the fertile fields of work-life balance, cognitive science, and ancient wisdom.
Curiosity didn't kill the cat; it launched a thousand ships in the world of innovation. I'm joined by Bohdan to dissect the curious mind's role in steering the ship of business, design, and tech towards uncharted waters. From guerrilla marketing mishaps to the transformative power of asking "why," we'll share war stories and wisdom gleaned from the front lines. And if you're in the mood for a tale of resilience, stick around for the pivot that turned a period of layoffs into the birth of a mental health startup. It's a rollercoaster ride through the highs and lows of entrepreneurial spirit and the creative drive that fuels real change.
Wrap up the session with us as we muse over the crossroads of culture and creativity, drawing parallels between the buzzing streets of Kiev and the serene vistas of Austria. Looking ahead, we speculate on the AI-infused future of music and website design, anticipating a human-centric approach amidst the tech boom. As we traverse from the creative sphere to the global stage, we grapple with the weighty issues of military funding and the moral compass guiding nations. It's a conversation that weaves through the rich tapestry of creativity under pressure, the entrepreneurial zeal that shapes our world, and the boundless potential of a curious mind.
Thanks for listening. Please check out our website at www.forsauk.com to hear great conversations on topics that need to be talked about. In these times of intense polarization we all need to find time to expand our Frame of Reference.
Ever felt hemmed in by the rigid nine-to-five grind? My latest conversation with Bohdan Palladichuk, the mastermind behind an innovative Ukrainian design agency, might just be the breath of fresh air your workweek needs. We tackle the art of blending productivity with personal time, unlocking the cognitive secrets to boosting creative output. Bogdan's approach is not about clock-watching but about nurturing a team environment where flexibility leads to flourishing, both professionally and personally. Grab a coffee, and let's wade through the fertile fields of work-life balance, cognitive science, and ancient wisdom.
Curiosity didn't kill the cat; it launched a thousand ships in the world of innovation. I'm joined by Bohdan to dissect the curious mind's role in steering the ship of business, design, and tech towards uncharted waters. From guerrilla marketing mishaps to the transformative power of asking "why," we'll share war stories and wisdom gleaned from the front lines. And if you're in the mood for a tale of resilience, stick around for the pivot that turned a period of layoffs into the birth of a mental health startup. It's a rollercoaster ride through the highs and lows of entrepreneurial spirit and the creative drive that fuels real change.
Wrap up the session with us as we muse over the crossroads of culture and creativity, drawing parallels between the buzzing streets of Kiev and the serene vistas of Austria. Looking ahead, we speculate on the AI-infused future of music and website design, anticipating a human-centric approach amidst the tech boom. As we traverse from the creative sphere to the global stage, we grapple with the weighty issues of military funding and the moral compass guiding nations. It's a conversation that weaves through the rich tapestry of creativity under pressure, the entrepreneurial zeal that shapes our world, and the boundless potential of a curious mind.
Thanks for listening. Please check out our website at www.forsauk.com to hear great conversations on topics that need to be talked about. In these times of intense polarization we all need to find time to expand our Frame of Reference.
It's the middle of my workday. I believe, Okay, but yeah, the best way to recharge, kind of, you know, set the thoughts from the operations and get into more life. Okay.
Speaker 2:Well, I'll try to lighten things up for you then. That would be good. I'll get you pumped up so you can return to the rest of the day. And so, what is a workday like in Ukraine, is it? Do you do like we're kind of eight to five people in the States? What do you end up?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a classical workflow In my agency. I try to keep things kind of flexible so people can work as much as they feel like while meeting the deadlines. So sometimes they can work less than eight hours. Sometimes they would go more if they feel like that. Okay, that is essentially made for the designers usually, because when I was a designer I had this kind of thing that you know, I cannot stand up from my work in place till I finish my idea because I have it over here.
Speaker 1:So sometimes I would end up working more hours than needed, for example, and there's no gratitude for that. Instead of just, I mean, internal gratitude. That's why I made the workflow in our company so people are getting paid for the hours worked. So they always have the set amount of tasks for 160 hours, which is the classic work schedule, I believe. But if they work longer, they get paid more. If they sometimes need to finish faster because they need to pick up, like children from school or whatever, they can do it as well without feeling pressure that they're kind of keeping the work time. So, yeah, this has been working quite good so far. So with me, I used to work for like I don't know 12 hours a day for like all five years without any bad case.
Speaker 1:But then I still realized that I need to kind of do something about it, because the energy is not infinite and it's just not a good lasting strategy. So we'd rather create a yeah, reduce that and just focus on something more high level instead. I guess because usually it's the operations that are taken the most.
Speaker 2:It's not Perhaps the I think in some ways maybe it would be offensive to some people, but I've always thought of creative people as being kind of like cows in the field. You drive by a cow in the field and you don't. It's like why are they just standing there? It's like they're working. What do you mean? They're working. Cows have to stand up, they have to eat the food, they have to digest it, and I find, at least with my own creative process, that a lot of times I need to be a way to recharge batteries, to kind of get my thoughts cleared out, to see other things that will inspire me, that I just kind of plug away for a later date kind of thing. So I appreciate that you have that kind of flexibility, because I think with a lot of non-creative people it's very difficult to understand that just because they're not here doesn't mean that they're not here, and that is a very good thing, so you are well, I trust.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure, for sure. There's actually this neurobiological background behind that. That is called like the alpha state of mind. So are you in the pocus? Your brain is in the narrow state of the neurons that are being activated, so you can really solve one task really nice. But then there's this alpha state where you unplug from everything and then your brain horizon gets wider and you start like interconnecting things that were not previously kind of in one area of your brain, I believe.
Speaker 1:So this is where you just like you know kind of quit working and go out for a coffee and for 20 minutes or just observe the pigeons flying, and these things start to make sense now, like, okay, the solution was easier than I thought when I was just directly focusing on it. So I really like understanding how your brain works and how to change the modes in order to get that maximum output is extremely important. And, yes, sometimes just winding out, sitting on the sofa and doing something absolutely different can get you the space needed to really come up with this, like most creative solutions, because usually they're not straightforward or not about the really like amount of power sink that it is about the quality of this thinking process, I believe. Yeah, yeah. Therefore, yeah, keep your brain healthy and do more charts Well there has to be room to be human right.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's kind of the overriding thing, and it's wonderful that we do finally, I think, in contemporary time, find understanding some of the neurochemistry that goes on, you know, behind that supports things that we've always known internally. I think I mean those of us that are tuned into those kinds of things. But it is good to have that data to be able to say, see, this isn't just me trying to, you know, make up stuff. This is stuff with some real empirical data behind it and you know we should listen to that, just like we should listen to people that have some facts and have studied things and, you know, know stuff that we don't know, instead of listening to Carl here, who has an opinion on this and you know Carl's smart about a lot of things you know and that thing just makes me go what? So I don't get it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure. So I believe one of the guys that I do trust when they're speaking these things is Sadhguru. He's like the Buddhist I don't know Guru. You've heard about him and he's saying like lots of smart stuff and basically his main thought is like the human brain is the most complex computer on this earth and so far like the most complex device, and like saying that when are you going to read the manual about how it works, like at the very very end, or will you try to figure out? You know how these things work before before then?
Speaker 2:That's like my father-in-law used to say he doesn't, he wouldn't read the destructions. And I'm like what so the destructions? I'm like you mean the instructions? He's like no, they're destructions, because they always make you do it wrong.
Speaker 2:I'm like I don't think that's really the way I understand. There are poorly written instructions I get that, or poorly you know drawn. You know diagrams of how things go I get that, but that doesn't mean you chuck them all out. That's not a good thing, so, but anyway, well, you know the format right, and I had hoped that we would also get a chance to kind of talk about, in your field, where are things going? You know what does the future look like with all of the other, all the dynamics that are affecting us right now. You know how does, how do you see that impacting us in the next year, five years, 10 years, even so, but we'll just take it where it goes, if that's okay.
Speaker 1:Okay, absolutely Okay, excellent.
Speaker 2:Well, I'll start her up. I've been recording anyways, just to make sure we had good sound balance, which it looks like we do. I'm going to take me down just a tad and I wanted to make sure that we were fine. I might actually even use some of that discussion, because I think that we were onto something there. But anyways, here we go. Bogdan Palladichuk Am I saying it? Yes, palladichuk. Okay, I really try. I practiced that, I really did. You measured it. You know you really All right.
Speaker 2:Well, welcome folks to another podcast edition, another recording that I am really excited about. I've been bringing in some people that we talked with during 2023 and that I just felt had so much more to say and I had so much more to learn from them. So I figure, if I've got something to learn, maybe you do too. And plus, I've been looking at people that I really like. You know. It's just, it's good when you like people, because it's really hard.
Speaker 2:I mean, lincoln used to say Abraham Lincoln said I do not like that man very much, I must get to know him, and I think, well, you know, it's even better if you like that man and you must get to know them right. So my guest today is that kind of person. His name is Bogdan Palladichuk, and Bogdan is across not only the screen from me, but Bogdan is across the world from me and most of my listeners, I think. He is a resident of Kyiv, ukraine, so not just down the street from me in any way, shape or form, but in the global community, I guess we are kind of just down the street from each other, right, in terms of light speed, we're talking to each other just like that which you know. Praise God, thank you for that capability, because it is how we get to meet each other, right. So, bogdan, thank you Welcome. Welcome to 2024. Welcome to Frame of Reference.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, absolutely happy to be here and thank you for such a warm intro, excited for this conversation to happen in 2024. These are moving fast, so there's always lots of things to discuss and I'm extremely excited about that.
Speaker 2:There is. I made a new year's resolution to have been telling a guest that I'm returning. I am trying my darndest to not do the introduction of people, because we get these things from Command your Brand, which are well put together. But I say you know, why should I just regurgitate that? Why don't I put that burden on my chest, that burden right on you? Because you know you better than I know you, you know the high points of you better than I do. So, bogdan, tell our listeners and our viewers. Oh, actually, you know, I forgot. I wanted to start recording this. I'm going to do that quick and we'll just have to acknowledge the fact that there's going to be something else playing for the first part of it. But I keep thinking about that and then realizing, gee whiz, I get started going and I forget all about it. But let me just make sure this comes up. Here we go. Okay, recording has started. I'm wonders of modern technology, folks. Anyways, bogdan, please introduce yourself to our listeners and now our viewers.
Speaker 1:So okay, hello everybody, nice to. Unfortunately, I don't see you, but I hope you get to see me and get inspired by something that we do and me myself. I'm a creative director and CEO at Cream Design Agency. We design websites, brands and digital products, and we do a lot of creative stuff in the digital sphere, especially for the tech companies. So, yeah, here I am on the podcast with Ronald LaBerge. I got a lot of the hobbies as well that actually are driving me and driving my creative juices flowing, I believe, which is the sound production, the video making, the copywriting, the script writing. So these are the things that are shaping my worldview, I believe. But, yeah, formally speaking, I'm a CEO and co-founder of the Creamcom, which is one of the best design agencies, I believe, in the world.
Speaker 2:Yes, of course. Of course you wouldn't be on the show if you weren't one of the best.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:So, bogdan, what's your background, then, coming into this? How did you find this career for yourself?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I myself like a product designer, so I have a background in UX design, ui design and the visual design a little bit as well. So this is how I founded my company. I was doing quite well in design and I loved a lot of it and I really, in all the project that I was working with, in all the companies that I used to work in, I was trying I was always trying to get the business value to the max level. So I was like working in the design domain, but I was always curious about how the projects are run, how the business run, how the marketing runs, why the product does not get enough customers. What did they say? What do they think? And being inside of the process as a designer, I got to see a lot of the motivations behind people using or not using the product, how they perceive the marketing of the product versus what the product actually does. So I got to experience all these things and have a pretty good vision about what is the best way to actually match the product and the marketing and the business side of things in order to really have the customers excited and I believe, getting people excited and just learning about how psychology works on the personal level is something that really interests me about. You know why people live their lives and how to get the maximum experience available for them through the digital products that are being out there, because they simplify life, make it better, make it more efficient. So, yeah, being a designer and always expanding my field of knowledge, of interest and what I was doing got me to starting a company, and currently we have 30 people and we are working for five years already. We have big brands in the portfolio and all the companies that we are working with. They can even start with one single banner, but then when they start working with us and understand the whole potential of this 30 people that are absolutely enthusiastic about what they're doing and about the value that we can bring to the table.
Speaker 1:Because, again, I was trying to find people who are as curious about the tech, about design and about impact as myself, and I do believe that curiosity is one of the main drivers of people progressing at something the most the fastest learners I've seen where the people who had the most curiosity about how this stuff is made.
Speaker 1:So this is number one factor that kind of drives the people that I hire, drives me, and as well as with clients as well. The more open minded they are, the more they are open to explore what's possible to do in terms of Again translating the, for example, business requirements of the creative language they really are interested about. You know why this happens like that, what else can be done, and then, by being open minded, exploring all the possible options coming from different backgrounds, then the people combine this synergy of thoughts into something that is absolutely new, absolutely fresh and absolutely groundbreaking. Because the opposite of that would be the ego and just being kind of me, mine not being flexible, not considering anybody else's opinion, just because you want to get it right that you are the most correct person in the room, the wisest person in the room. So, yeah, the most creative people usually say that they know nothing and they're absolutely happy to explore.
Speaker 2:Sounds like the difference between pre thinkers and fascists. I'm not sure, so we could label it all kinds of different ways. But you know, it's interesting to me too that, you know, with the conversations I've been having with more recently, the word curiosity has come up a lot, and the first thing I think of when I hear people talking about curiosity too, is how we have, I think, constructed culturally and I don't know if this is beyond America, but I know here we have a saying. You know, curiosity killed the cat and it's it's almost it's used regularly to describe the person that you know you shouldn't wonder about, you shouldn't go looking at that thing. You're going to end up getting hurt.
Speaker 2:So it really encourages people to not be curious because that's seen as a death threat waiting to happen, you know kind of thing, and that's just struck me, is so wrong because we come out with our beginnings as human beings is built fundamentally on curiosity. That's how we grow, that's how we learn, to the things we need to learn. That's how we experience the things that really make us unique to ourselves. Is we just ask what if? And there's these two like factions, maybe more than that, but there's a faction that will look at something and say that's, this is what happened. That's exactly what happened here. Is that was caused by blah, blah, blah, and and it was that you can have another person saying no, no, no, that was caused by, by this and it was a fundamental problem with with this, this fundamental aspect of those kinds of things. And then there's a person that says that happened, hi, I wonder why that happened. What was going on?
Speaker 1:there.
Speaker 2:I mean, I that was a really curious thing that happened and I just I honestly do not understand where the fundamental part of the human nature is that breaks down, that stops us from saying, I wonder, because I wonder. I think that's one of the most powerful phrases in the world and it's certainly in these highly polarized times, you know, across the world, in the US have, we have plenty of it, you know, we're, we're like right there at the head of the polarism, you know, spectrum like with a lot of things, but it is so, it's so contrary to what will bring us together, to what will bring us to the next step of what we are capable of doing, when we work together and just say, you know, I don't know, let's, let's figure that out, let's go let's, you know, you want to figure it out. I'm gonna try to look at it from this way. You try to look at it, let's find, and we'll see what we come back with.
Speaker 1:Okay, what, where does that and I think also, I think a very important concept in curiosity is your curiosity as well, and they actually the core of it is a very interesting question why. I believe like answering that question usually provides the most value about everything that you do like, and this is one of the questions my creative strategist would always ask whenever we're debriefing any project. So we're going to tell him about this, like hey, hey, we have a client who would need a website. It needs to be white and black or not colorful, and he wants it to have modern. And he was like, why, why does he want to have a website? What's the goal? What's the end goal, what's the purpose of it, what he actually wants to achieve with having a website? Because website is also just a tool.
Speaker 1:So whenever I hear this question why, being brought up in many conversation and also a good way to I just get absolutely excited because really, this is simple, three simple letters, right, but there's usually so much thinking behind how to answer it properly in order to really get what you want or like. This can be even in the broader context. For example, the why question is also very big in defining how companies do what they do and why they do it. In the end of the day, there's this why component. So there's this amazing video on TikTok, I believe, where the guy was talking about these three circles, what, why and how the companies do stuff.
Speaker 1:So Simon, simon and the Apple usually, yeah, and usually the companies start with the center right, like the most successful ones, like why we want to save earth, that's why we're building clothes that are going to be sustainable, that's why we're pedagogy, so things not like we sell t-shirts because because, but, going from that, why is really what people do care about? Because this is again what I believe one of the most fundamental questions. But besides that, there's a lot more questions to be asked and a lot of opinions than should be considered. When you have an open mind in order to get this, fantastic results, fantastic new ideas and the best way of doing stuff, I believe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think it really is. So you see that that's permeating all kinds of different domains is asking why. And it's difficult because we also, I think in media, for example. I've used this analogy and I'll put it out to you. You argue with me if you think I'm not onto something, if this is stupid, but we in media, the job has been traditionally to identify who, what, where, when, how Right. We look at the things that happen. A journalist, a, two journalists, wants to define those things, and then the op ed people would talk about the why. So now we've got these media things that are going on where the journalists can't seem to just get away from, and their audiences demand that they not only define who, what, where, when, how, but they give them a why too, and those whys are getting so pathological. And what, what?
Speaker 2:What really concerns me is that our whys are being answered by our biases and by people who have similar biases, instead of being answered by well, why is not why? And you figure it out. Why is a? Well, maybe it's this, okay, let's test that out. Well, maybe it's this, oh, let's test that out. You know well what, if it's in the real, the real fascinating things happen when somebody goes way outside the box and says, well, maybe, and they are oh guys, no way it could be that only to find out that, yes, in fact it is that.
Speaker 2:And I'd say I, I don't know where that breaks down. Maybe it's just some people shouldn't be interested with why you have to be a creative person with a decent MFA in thinking before you can be allowed to answer the question why, until then, you have to stick with whatever, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right, I? How do you see that? I mean, am I? Am I way off-patient thinking that or or what? Because I'm trying, I want to find a way to stop it. I want people to stop asking why in a malevolent way and instead ask why in a unifying way and a we're in this together way. Am I?
Speaker 1:yeah it. I believe the hardest part is the why, especially on the personal level. That is really hard to answer it regarding a lot of things, because really it's coming from your past, from your biases. You sometimes wouldn't even know your own motivations or are not even able to communicate it to yourself properly. So you would just do something sporadically or just by an impulse or just because it feels right, but you might not fully acknowledge where the essence of the why is coming from.
Speaker 2:Like when my wife asks me why did you do that? And I go.
Speaker 1:I exactly right, but you did have some intrinsic motivation for that kind of thing. You might not even know it yourself, but it is there and it's probably, in the end of the day, this is the root cause of why you acted like that then resulted in this action turned out to be, in that form, said or done like that. But again, the very, very starting point is why? Because they believe again, all the people are driven usually by accomplishing all this micro little goals that they might not even be aware about themselves. But in the end of the day, when you try to answer that question, either for yourself or for somebody else, I believe, because this is not usually a linear answer to that and it requires more explanation or thinking to be done it gives a very interesting thing that is called a platform. So the platform is right, is the place where you get to bring all these thoughts together, discuss things, bring up multiple topics and then, if this dialogue regarding some common why that you're seeking, for example, or two personal why, is coming together again, the other person would have a lot of thoughts. And this platform of discussion kind of is the place where all this creative stuff I believe is happening. So I think this is very good.
Speaker 1:There's a good, very good parallel for the modern design. So there will be some modern design concept kind of exhibitions where the like normal person, non creative person would come, come look at the object and say like I don't understand what value it brings, why does it exist? It's kind of weird and stuff like that. But then what the designers are saying? That there's this object and there's your interpretation of the object and the most interesting part happens in between of these. So this object is created for the reason to have this space, for you to be able to think about it in that way.
Speaker 1:What kind of emotions it trigger? If the emotion even is like rejection, saying like I don't understand this stuff, you still had to kind of process the signal and figure out that my opinion about that is like I don't like it or like I hate it or I don't understand it. And it can be also like a super high temperature emotion or low temperature emotion. You should not even care. But again, what they're trying to create is the space for you to kind of feel these things and space for your brain to generate their reaction, response or whatever else that can be born within this medium.
Speaker 2:So I believe the the why question creates similar sort of medium to you know, think and yeah, that cognitive dissonance that happens when we can't quite fit something into how we perceive, or have perceived, what is right, what is wrong, what is true, what is not, you know, and that that's a that the biases feed into that right. It makes me think, too, of the the artist. I remember listening to a talk from a man years ago and he said that artists are the profits of the modern generation and I thought about that. Huh, he said because think about it, artists come in to a status quo and they shake things up and they get people upset because they've got an inspiration. You know that. That is a vision of where people should be, where they are, and you know what they need to do about it.
Speaker 2:And people generally don't like that by and large. They just generally don't like being told you're wrong, you've been doing it wrong, here's something new you need to look at. So we've got to get out of this thing we've been in and this is the new thing. You know, and you think of people like was it maple Thorpe, the artist that did the crucifix and a vial of urine? And people just went bananas over that because it was so disrespectful and I was asking people a question that to me that felt like a what's the word I'm looking for. It was like a calling to the church to say look at what you are doing to the cross of Christ. I'm not doing this. This is what we are doing to the cross of Christ through the way that we are practicing religion. And I got that message right away. And I don't know to this day I honestly don't know if that was his intent, but that's certainly what it communicated to me.
Speaker 2:So when you talk about that space, you know that's in between. When you have the object that you go, I don't get it. I don't understand. I mean, there was a time in my life where Jackson Pollock, I would look at his stuff and go, how is that art? And then I got older and I went no wait, you know he's really onto something here.
Speaker 2:There's an emotional connotation there. There's a chaos there that also has a strange order to it. There is something that I wasn't seeing initially, that, whether life experience or whatever, does it, and I keep coming back to that that I believe one of the cures for our society is to have more creativity, to instill people and teach people what critical thinking looks like. What does interpretive thinking. Look like that. It's okay to not like something, but it's not okay to not understand why you don't like it. That's fundamental to understanding who we are, and you know, rather than find people that agree with me, I don't like it either. I don't think why is it doing that? Why don't I understand? That doesn't get us anywhere. That just says you know it's, you know like. Well, now I have three other people that don't like me, so it must be right to not like it.
Speaker 1:So I'm talking about it. The interesting thing here is that this thing actually made you feel something, whether good or bad, whether positive or negative, whether absolutely accepted or rejectful. You are bringing this up right now, right After some time has passed, and this is something that you know kind of was something that is not usually in comfort, but you probably every single day, or at least it gave you this kind of something to remember in your head, and I believe this is also very like interesting concept, and this is why I like the creativity, design, the art, because it makes people kind of remember things, it makes people feel things and it gets stuck in your brain and it kind of forms your experience. Again, even if that was like an absolutely like negative reaction sort of sort of thing. You understand, okay, this is totally how I don't want things to be, and it is always also important to know how you want things to be and you don't want things to be.
Speaker 1:And I believe, if you understand this concept of psychology as well, that people usually remember stuff that is not usual, that is beyond what they normally see. This is something that they remember. This is something their brain gets attached to, at least for some period of time, this is what makes them feel things. So from there you can take it and kind of put it in the right direction if you want it commercially, if we're speaking in business terms. That's why, you know, there was always this kind of opinion about not variety. That, you know, not variety is also an amount of people thinking about you, even in a bad way. Still they do and still they care.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I believe taking that, utilizing that in terms of of brand perception and knowing how to drive the business results for example, if you're doing something commercially to that psychological aspect is the reason why you should not always play it safe, be absolutely correct in all the ways. And there would be also very interesting examples of this. I saw it in Ukraine. There was this very big banner on the central street and it had a typo in it and I was like, really, you spend a lot of money and then you, there was a designer, there was a supervisor, a project manager, everybody omitted this type and I was like typo.
Speaker 1:And I was like that's kind of weird. So I took an image of it and send it to my friends and like, hey, look at that, here's a typo. And then I started noticing that this kind of screenshot started popping in different places. So there were a lot of people actually talking about that typo. They were like, see, they got it wrong. But this created a hype because you know kind of people again, right, they use this attention-grabbing method that is absolutely non-linear. But in the other way, a lot of people are discussing that, hey, you've seen this typo from the big brand. Oh, wow, that might have even been intentional and when I started noticing this effect, this probably was.
Speaker 1:And I also like again how the marketers and brand guys and designers and strategists can really get sometimes kind of creative in getting people to notice some stuff and I think it is kind of cool. And the Oatly Company is also doing very similar brand marketing. They would also cancel out the classic marketing team and they would do this weird ads on the streets. They would just I don't know like paint weird stuff and do absolutely non-traditional. Or the Red Bull example where they would be throwing out the empty cans of Red Bull just for people to have this kind of feeling that Red Bull is everywhere and people are drinking it. All this kind of guerrilla marketing techniques are something that really can drive a lot of interest and, I believe, as a creative, for me it's always interesting to work with these kind of concepts way more than move something absolutely near. Can't you see it? You'd have a drink.
Speaker 2:You'd have a drink and you could say at such and such, we can't spell, but our drinks taste good. So that sort of thing, because everybody misspells right. So you've got that common pull right there. Wow, somebody put I misspell all the time, but come on up here and then you hear the counter to it of yeah, well, we did that on purpose because it allows us to do this next step in the campaign. Yeah, I mean, you're absolutely right.
Speaker 2:We have a tendency, too, to want to point out things that are wrong. That's kind of a way that human beings, from my experience, feel better about themselves is by saying well, see, I know how to spell that word. I would never make that mistake with that word, right? So it's a phenomenon that I've always kind of laughed at and always go oh god, come on Judging out that you be judged. So what? I have not been answering or asking my favorite things questions but I'm going to shoot one in right now. What is your favorite thing that happened in 2023 that you hope happens again in 2024, that you'd like to build on in 2024?
Speaker 1:OK, so actually I do very interesting things that usually the most transformative periods, I believe, or events are usually the ones that are not necessarily positive in the beginning. So we actually, like last year we had a series of playoffs of the workers, so they were some kind of people even in our company and for a company of power size that was a big percentage. So my HR was like, look at the stats. We have this kind of high or low tenure or whatever you call it. That was like, yeah, but I know all these high people that left and I know why they left. So this was kind of hard for me to see of because I was working with them for quite a bit of time and we had the system in place together and stuff like that. But then I was kind of refiguring out how do I restructure the business? Why did I personally maybe feel kind of something towards these people leaving and how should I manage that? So I believe processing that things gave me so much insights into what our business can be, how to make sure that our system is absolutely bootproof from anybody leaving and still people can come in easily, for example, and take the work and continue doing it. So it became way more operationally, I believe, standardized in a way and in this way, way more scalable, and also in my personal life as well, because I was sometimes helping these people a lot or like investing my time in it a lot. So it also got me refiguring out how I want to build their relationship with the people. That led me to very great insights, like delegating more, assigning responsibility, centers, teaching some people, intermediary people, stuff that I know so they can teach people stuff, and so on. There's been really like lots of things, and even it got me in one point. I started like dive deep into all these things, why they happened and again, why right part, and in the why part I also found like a lot of interesting answers. And this way I have a goal to open two more companies this year and I kind of was planning that in the last year, but right now I'm absolutely sure why I want to do it, how I want to do it, how this whole system is going to be like complementing each other, all the departments and stuff.
Speaker 1:So I believe, yeah, by getting some things unplugged, when you throw something away or you get rid of something or something happens where you're like the usual plot is changing. Like it gets you first off, you're like disoriented, a little bit, right, you have to fix these things. And then you have to do some thinking, and then sometimes it's harder, you have to invest more time like hiring people, like a bunch of aspects to it. But then in this process you kind of learn a lot of things, you grow, you see the world differently and this way you can look back and think like, oh, that's cool, like I didn't have this experience. So in the end of the day, this experience so in my case, yeah, like in the other day, the layoffs of the people that left brought me to the idea of creating a mental health startup so I can check in on the mental health of my employees more often.
Speaker 1:I believe and understand if something is going wrong in their personal life or they're just not feeling well. I can have a conversation with them. Hey, can I help, or maybe you need time off, or something like that. So, again, this kind of the breaking part of the beginning led you to creating a very good solution in the end. So, yeah, that's my story, I believe.
Speaker 2:Cool there was a. Go ahead. Sorry with all that.
Speaker 1:All the ups and downs and kind of like.
Speaker 2:It makes me think of two things. My mom used to say all the time, god never closes a door, that he doesn't open a window. So now I thought that's very much how life works, right. Something closes and we're like, oh, I didn't want that to close, I wanted that. But then he's like well, but where's the open window here? And you found that through the process.
Speaker 2:The other thing it makes me think of is a leadership guy that we've been working with here at my full-time job, and the man there was talking about how leadership is really about whether or not people want to follow you, and one of the things that makes people want to follow other people is that they have to feel safe. So, by changing things up a little bit, it sounds like what you're ultimately doing and creating is a safer place, and the more people feel like this is a safe place, they want to come to it, they want to contribute, they want to make it safer, they want to do what they can to build the walls so that that safety is secure. And that leads me to my next question actually is what is your favorite thing right now about living in Kyiv, Ukraine?
Speaker 1:OK, my favorite thing is I really love the vibe of the people and I always loved it. So, even despite all the hardships that has been thrown at us, the people are still striving as much as they can. They're kind of holding together. They're opening up this whole new layer of Ukrainian identity that actually gets people also to create lots of different stuff, to create more stuff for culture, get more music out like, get more designs out there. So I really am the most excited about being in Kyiv is all these people that have the perseverance and strength and they are still again doing this cool stuff and they're even taking it to a next level because, hey, you don't know what's going to happen tomorrow, so I will go all in.
Speaker 1:So I do like this dynamics of behavior, I believe Because there would be some people in Austria, for example, because I know they're a bit conservative and that's what my friend recently told me. They're like I don't take it easy, taking it slow, moving in a slow tempo, and that's absolutely nice. It's a very good way to live life. But then there's this New York vibe where people are absolutely crazy, doing lots of stuff. I have lots of energy to contribute to this world and I love movement.
Speaker 1:I thankfully consciously know why I'm moving in any direction and making every single move, because this is also the other downside, I believe, about being kind of composite it's not even know why I do things and just trying to move, move, move. Not my thing. Thankfully, I know why I'm moving, where and how, and I do like the pace of it. So, to me, seeing a lot of black-minded people on the streets that are kind of like tough, fast, dynamic, durable, creative is something that I really love in Kiev, and you can meet a lot of creative people over here. I believe this is really a place for the creative people.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, there is a tendency, I think, hardship, you see, that with artists all the time, the times where they were in the most dire straits is usually the time in which the greatest works occur. I think a painting in particular. You know the incredible periods of Van Gogh's life. You know his life was not Pichy Keen when he was contributing to the art world with the radical things that he did. That now we look at and go, oh my god, that man was such a genius, you know, and there are example after example after example of people that were struggling in some way, shape or form, whether it's financially, emotionally, psychologically. Some of the greatest works comes out of that, as they're trying to just get the release of what's going on.
Speaker 2:Picasso, you know being what's the piece I can't remember it now that he did during the war in Spain and it's one of the seminal pieces that shows the hardship of war in an abstract way, but in some ways it's a more poignant and oh, it's like go, go, go, lord. What is wrong with my brain lately? But people will know what I'm talking about. But that work is you look at it now and think, well, there was an incredible hardship for him to even paint that. He had to have been in just a horrible, horrible environment to have witnessed that, and yet this work of art comes out of it. That helps to define it and helps to you know. Unite people together and say let's stop this thing. This is absolutely horrible that that's happening to people and I, emotionally, can identify with it in a way that's much more powerful than you know. Talking about it forever would be. So what's your favorite thing right now when you're on the streets in Kiev? What's the favorite place to go to right now? Are you going to go?
Speaker 1:I really love yeah, I really love going to the bars where they would have DJs playing, because that, for me, is the perfect way to have rest, I believe, because you can sit. At the same time, there's loud music so you can dance if you want to. So you're either standing up or sitting, and then you can still chat with your friends if you want to, and I'm personally a big fan of music. So, yeah, that's definitely these are my places to go in, and there's also like a lot of art galleries as well, and like art pieces that are being exhibited way more in different places that I also like watching, because, as I said, there's this new vibe of Ukrainian culture in the Stranosons, as I would say, right now, and it's very interesting to explore it as well. And yeah, coming back to the music and to the previous part, I said like yeah, there's definitely a saying that artists need drama. Right, because this is a very good way to kind of like soothe your emotion.
Speaker 1:And this is a very interesting and even for me personally, like whenever I would feel like some kind of emotional things and whatever, but I would circle or direction, I would also try it. I would also feel like I want to express it in music. So something like I would say like 60% of my music hobby demo sounds are created in the state where I was feeling very deep about something specific, like I changed in the world or in my personal life or something. But then the other day, when I got absolutely happy and pumped, I looked at these tracks and I was listening to them and I was like they're so sad I don't even want to release it. So I had a bunch of this kind of like melancholic, like melodies, but I don't want to get that vibe out.
Speaker 1:I believe for the people, but anyway, this is also what I'm looking for in the designers and I started noticing it as well. Like whenever I'm hiring a designer, I do like a background check and I check who they are, and I would frequently check Instagram and actually buy the way that people are using their Instagram and promoting themselves, because Instagram is the way to create a socially public brand kind of image, I believe in a way, or express yourself. So by noticing the, looking on the Instagram and looking deep into that, I can notice the amount of trauma for some reason that the designer has had. And if the trauma is kind of like huge or like the Instagram account is like an absolutely weird, I understand that this person has something kind of weird going on with their life. So usually these people turn out to be an absolutely fantastic artist, always, like whenever.
Speaker 1:Like the weirder the Instagram and the public image and the more kind of blurted is, the greater of artists they are, but at the same time, the more unreliable they are in work, because when you work with them sometimes they would kind of have all the swings they're feeling good and then bad, they cannot work, they need three days off and then they can come back and that kind of stuff. So I always like when I do background check, I kind of check for that drama needed for the creative to be able to be good kind of coefficient in people, because, again, when it's too much drama they're very good artists and but when there's lots of suffering and stuff, usually there's a lot of like the worst performance, I believe, or something that are out of the creative potential all this still have to be in a worker in order to make the work sufficient, like discipline, commitment, responsibility and stuff like that. So usually they can be suffering. But yeah, this is something that I noticed.
Speaker 2:So you're looking for functional creative. You're looking for. Functional crazy people is what it comes down to, Right, yeah.
Speaker 1:Like weird, but in a way not like absolutely or sometimes when there's a team setup because usually teams are also not about individuals only right, but about the overall chemistry you want to have somebody like a little more crazy and somebody a little more structured to balance it out, right, but you have to be like acknowledged about this, otherwise we're going to end up with nine crazy artists that are going to just stab themselves with knives because that is from the client and you don't want to have that.
Speaker 2:That would be a great name for a company Nine crazy artists that are stabbing themselves with knives. I want to work there, don't you? Or maybe it's a band? That could be a band? Definitely could be a band, couldn't it Sounds?
Speaker 1:like, yeah, I'll listen to their.
Speaker 2:I would at least pick up their album and want to listen to what they're all about. So do you have a favorite kind of music that you're listening to this year?
Speaker 1:I like electronic music and I mostly listen to house and techno. These are my genres, but I also like drum and bass lately because it's been coming back. It used to be a big like I don't know 10 years ago or something like 12 or 15 or even 20, but now I think it's coming back to the mainstream and I'm very excited to see this rebirth.
Speaker 2:What do you think is about that speaks to you with that style of music? Do you have a? The rhythm, the rhythm.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but the whole world perception of music is also interesting because it's down to my core personal kind of experience preferences. I like when you kind of can. The sound itself is just waves, you cannot even touch it, right, it's not even tangible. The same with visuals, with the design. It's just a matter of ways that are being perceived by sensors. And when you perceive some kind of ways that are not even tangible and you feel something and you think of something, I think it's a grandeur of an effect. So that's why I really like music.
Speaker 1:And regarding the music also, the music of the old ages usually was about the lyrics a lot. So you would listen to the words and think like, yeah, I relate to it and this is why you like music. But currently, with the development of the technology and sound production, I believe every little subtle sound can make you feel things. So I would really listen to a lot of music that doesn't have any words. But at the same time the whole palette of what's coming into my ears, the whole plet of frequencies, the whole plet of the groove, is making me imagine things, feel things.
Speaker 1:And this is why I probably like electronic music the most, because we really like every single small detail and there's like so much of them that can be fitted in the track because again in the days of Beatles they would be just guitar based drums and the vocal and they would just kind of create melodies. That's fun. But when you can open a bottle and make this sound sound like, and then you kind of feel the echo vibration of it and there's like a bazillion sounds like that, you don't even understand what's happening with the. I don't what's happening with my body or with my emotion, but it definitely feels something and that drives me a lot. And just, I guess, the basic interest in the human rhythm, how people further from the tribal times were kind of receptive to the rhythms, repetitiveness I also like that component because the text and depth of the lyrics is comprehensible to me and, like you know, kind of on the surface very predictable in a way. But then this overall combination of the sounds is not Okay.
Speaker 2:I found. I discovered minimalism a few years back and I've been finding there's an artist, steve Reich, that I've listened to his music and it has that same sort of just. He doesn't do a lot with percussion but he does a lot with percussive instruments, so the strings can end up being his percussive instrument, but that just the it. I think I understand some of what you're talking about with it. It's not a verbal thing, because he very rarely has anything beyond coral, coral things going on that are more, actually, the coral stuff can be very percussive. So it's, you know, pop, pop kinds of things that where they're singing, they may be singing words, they may not, I don't really know and I don't care, but the emotional impact of the music is very. It just takes me to places that I'm like, wow, that was. That was just fascinating the way that was done technically, but it's also fascinating the feelings that it evokes without any words whatsoever, right, so so let's go to your expertise Website designer, extraordinaire person who has made so many successful companies much more successful, much much.
Speaker 2:I know that's true. Use this as a soundbite for when you're selling your. Bogdan is the guy if you want to make yourself successful with your website, have one that makes people go wow and look at it, draws you into it, right. What's the key? What's your, what's your trend that you see coming forward in 2024 and beyond? That will really make websites from successful brands stand out from those that just struggle. And it's whole same old, same old.
Speaker 1:So there it has to do a lot with the AI advancement, I believe. So with AI advancement you can create lots of stuff really fast. You know like you cannot yet create a good website using purely AI, but I think it will be coming. And it is the same with branding, with Logos, cars. You can do something, but it's going to be generic.
Speaker 1:So I believe this whole fact that you can really easily create something generic is what it's going to try the industry towards the customization in the end of the day, because if everything around you is going to be pretty much the same or very alike, you're going to again start noticing, like accepting that as a default, and you're going to start noticing something that is different.
Speaker 1:So I believe, if in the previous kind of era or years everything was pretty much custom, now there's so much generic stuff that can be coming in from everywhere that really standing out is a absolutely different game right now and this is also discussion that I had with one of the colleagues that in the era of power computing, when the quantum computers are going to be there and everything's going to be really super possible Technically, the creativity and the brand and this reason why you exist and who you are, and these things are going to dominate in people's decisions about who they should go with, what they should purchase, and, again, the more humanish you stay, but at the same time, using the advancement of the UI or AI.
Speaker 1:We need it the better it is, because again, people now know that computers are capable of everything, but they still want to trust the real person, because there's so much more into being human in approaching every single task and the result is going to get any of the different.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I think AI is going to, but we don't know. It's such a drastic tempo of development so we don't even know what's going to be here in five years. But I believe my personal opinion is for the next five years that, yeah, anti-generic is going to be the way to stand out. It will be really like a tough competition because again even 10-year-old can do stuff with AI that can be possible to everybody. That increases the competition and would get brands to push even more, because again there would be more and more content, influencers, media trying to all steal your attention If we're talking about marketing, or even the products will be created way faster. So we'd really have to advance in what you're doing, how you're doing, why you're doing it, the human component to the depth to it. So I believe the depth is going to be really important. The quality versus quantity of the stuff that is being done is going to matter the most.
Speaker 2:So it really is going to, in that view, really is going to be an era of art in terms of the artistic process and the artistic way of thinking. That's what's going to stand out. It's not going to be enough to just be another realistic painter. You're going to have to be a van goal. You're going to have to be a Monet, you're going to have to be, you know. But the only way to be that is not to imitate Monet. It's to figure out what am I trying to say, what's important to me, and then hope that that resonates and, quite frankly, I think, hope that it pisses some people off. You know, because that is part of that process. If you're really working towards being an artist, you have to be willing to say it's okay if you don't like this, it's okay if you don't like me because you don't like this, it's okay. What matters is that we both talk about why, right, why, why is that upsetting you? What helped me understand? That's interesting. I want to understand more about that instead of being like I can't believe you don't like me. I'm so likable, you know, and that just shuts things down. And you know, you must be one of those people that doesn't like people that do things like I do? So, yeah, they probably are, but don't you want to know why? So don't you? I don't get it. So what's the? What do you think is coming?
Speaker 2:I you know, I gotta be honest, in preparing for this interview, our talking in today, I kept thinking how do I describe it. I kept thinking really at a moral, I guess, disadvantage in talking with you, because I'm very patriotic, I love America, I love the ideas that are on our Statue of Liberty. You know, give us your tired, you know wretched refuse yearning to be free. I think the principles of what our democracy in the United States was, you know, formed upon, are some of the most fantastic principles of humanity ever, and it's not like they were brand new ideas, but they certainly were a new codification of what had come for hundreds and thousands of years before. But I also think that we have taken for granted for far too long what it takes to maintain that and what it's gonna continue to take, and the world, as complex as our world is becoming, as diverse, as you know, connected as it has just technologically.
Speaker 2:And then I think about you and Ukraine and what we are allowed to see of what's going on in Ukraine, especially in the Eastern border right, and I think to myself how can I even speak to that? Because I'm, like you know, a six year old coming in and saying you should do it this way, all right, oh, that's so silly. Or I don't know what you know, but I don't think I can understand and I would like to understand. What is it really like? What is the core battle at stake, Says, when our politicians argue about whether or not to support the effort with more military funding, with more, you know, whatever? There's a lot more at stake, from what I can see and feel, than whether or not we approve another 500 million or billion or whatever dollars of military aid. What help me, help others, understand what is really at stake from what you're seeing up close and personal in the midst of it?
Speaker 1:Yeah for sure. In order to be given some like super professional opinion, I believe I would have to be like in the military and so somewhere in the higher cut the mind of it to understand the whole situation properly, but it's very even visible from a general kind of person as I am just being in the middle of it. The US part and the US support is really like a very important factor because the guys need munitions, they need more like kind of guns, they need more equipment. And the thing is, if not US, then there's Europe. But it's like almost half of the support is going to be cut if the US is not helping us and unfortunately, ukraine does not have sufficient amount of production of drones, equipment, guns needed and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:So when you're fighting as a country that is way smaller in size, way smaller in terms of resources, with a giant like Russia that has a lot of resources and they lots of money and they would have lots of factories to build that stuff, so really like it does depend a lot about how people are helping us and especially, again, us being the biggest player in this equation. And I do believe that it's very interesting because really the values that Russia is propagating with. What they're doing is more about like, hey, you can just send or attack other countries, right, you can be radical, you can kill people, you can fight for resources and do all this kind of disruption.
Speaker 1:And this is normal and nobody's going to say anything. So it's just like really anti-democratic values that are being propagated and the more again nobody else does anything to stop that, the more of that we start to see happening in the world. So there would be like more countries starting wars and there was be and the consequences that are not going to be that great as well. So I do believe that really US is the biggest, probably flagship of the democratic values and supporting other countries in being promoting what's right. And it'd be super nice if really US could step up, really deliver and show to the rest of the world that hey, this is not the way that the world should live by just attacking other countries or not obeying the international law or something like that. So I do believe that this is a duty. It's not necessarily like a duty to duty, but that what US was claiming to be this world kind of basemaker in democracy and in good things, and you can kind of adjust this and try some security and safety in a way. So I do believe and I would hope that they would the US would step up and commit and deliver to those things, because really, in terms of shaking us, it's very easy to isolate yourself and just care about yourself only. But again, that's what my parents used to tell me like you were the older brother, so you also have responsibility for your younger brother, not because, just because you know right, he's your brother and you have the same values and you know kind of it takes commitment, takes responsibility. Sometimes it would take you to do something that you don't really want to do or you know, kind of giving out something from yourself in order to keep you know kind of to pay the dues. And I believe that world order of safety, of security, of really honest values, is something worth fighting for for sure.
Speaker 1:But again, the more people demand, the many opinions. There are, that many things that I would not know about this decision making and, of course, like sometimes fighting for the democracy might make the gas prices go two times up and the people would be like I'm based, I want my kind of tank filled with the cheaper gas. I don't really mind about the war and stuff like that, but it has to do a lot about what world we're gonna live in, what world are gonna our children are gonna be living in, I believe. So maybe it's gonna be fine for now, but again, the more you show the bullies that they can do the fighting, the more you turn the world into a fighter place. So it's a world war three that has been discussed very actively. I believe that it can be upcoming somewhere.
Speaker 1:Well, we had in the chances we had in the chances of the overall crash, I believe. So, yeah, let's hope the partners are gonna be helping sufficiently, because we don't want our desire. We're just unable To fully do it ourselves and again given out. I don't even know what kind of consequences would be, if ever. Unfortunately, I don't even know what. What, for me personally, losing would mean. What is it like it? Probably what I'm gonna kill, be killed, or something in my family as well, because and then lots of other people, and then there would be no concern or like it's a very, it's very hard concept to comprehend. But again, even thinking beside my own personal interests or anything like what the world is going to be if that happened, what is going to be allowed for all the other countries that are absolutely dreaming about destroying their neighbors and taking more territory? Is it gonna be a new normal? Well, hope, not, because I would like my children to live definitely in a safe world that they would not be Concerned about themselves and the other people have a bad time, or at least as little as it is possible, because all the humans are humans and and I believe that the next Point of evolution is the computers because they don't have egos.
Speaker 1:They don't have this desire to kind of step over people's heads, to take stuff, to get their resources, to be nasty and mean, do I don't know, break the values or the agreements or to you know that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:I believe the computers are very rational and like if we're gonna kill people or like computers, right, we're not gonna succeed because we kill more of our kind and this leads overall thing to Decrease, right, a bad way for the evolution. Evolution wants to go up. So I believe that the computers and the AI technology is going to be definitely way more Sustainable for living in the long life and maybe they're gonna live on this earth longer than the humans, because, again, it's 2024 and the people are almost pushing the red, the red buttons already. And when is that gonna happen? In 10 years, 20 years, 50 years, 100 years, 150 years, yeah, so I hope the humanity Learned, learns from computers to be rational or some find some better way to integrate, maybe AI that is practically very rational in decision-making. This leads to a bad end or to death, to like deprivation of things, and this leads to success, to multiplication and to this kind of things we need to learn out of.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think movies are the answer. You know there's a movie back from the 1980s the war games. I don't know if you've ever heard of seeing that, the war games. You know the end result is after all of these, you know theoretical processes that the computer plays out and sees, that you know really there's no winning in the situation Because no matter what happens, no matter what scenario it plays out, says the only way to win this game is to not play.
Speaker 2:So and you know, we, we have, we still have, and I, I believe honestly that's part of what the US Perhaps needs is. Europe is very well aware. Japan is very well aware, russia is very well aware. They have seen up close and personal, on a monumental scale, what war brings. China knows what it brings, vietnam knows what it brings.
Speaker 2:We have to, as a people, understand that it's never, it's not an option anymore. We, you know what makes it different. We've been at war. I know you look at civilizations across the the. You know the span of time we have been at war and people use that as an argument. We're always gonna have war like. You have to understand something, folks we have never, ever, ever had the capacity to completely wipe ourselves out Ever. There's much more at stake. There's there's the capacity to do things that we've never been able to do to ourselves.
Speaker 2:So my question I think your question is too who do we want to be and why do we want to be it? And and, honestly, you're, the kind of conversations you are, you and I are having right now, are exactly why we want to make it work, because this is fantastic. You and I are on completely different sides of the earth and yet I talk with you and I feel like he's my brother, he's my, he's my human brother, that I want us to get together and have a beer and listen to techno. You know, and I hope you'll come listen to jazz with me, you know, because that's my thing, I would. So, um, that's what we're fighting for, right? That that's what we have to realize is really at stake is do we want that future and what are we willing to pay to get to it? You know what? What it's gonna cost, because opportunity costs.
Speaker 2:So, bogdan, you know, again, we're out of time and we'll just, I guess, if you're okay, we'll find another time, maybe sometime in the spring or this summer, and just continue our conversation and take it where it will. If I know, you are one thing you are an expert both in how to be creative and you're an expert in how to be a Ukrainian. So those are things I am not an expert at, and I would love to become at least more aware of what that means, not to mention the fact that you are and I truly mean this sincerely, you are one of the finest human beings I've run across on the show, and you're my frame of reference always changes and increases when we talk.
Speaker 2:So thank you so much for being here, for talking, for taking your time. Hope I did. What I told you I was trying to do was to charge you up for the rest of your day, because you said you're about midway through you did you gave me a great platform for thoughts as well, for this, for discussion, for introspective retrospecting, I believe.
Speaker 1:And, by the way, I do play jazz on drums, drums and bass as well, oh so, there it is.
Speaker 2:There's the reason why we connect. Okay, I got it now, folks, my guest today has been Bogdan Paladichuk. So did I say it right again? My name Raul Abrech. I have to be sensitive to these things, you know so, but Bogdan is the CEO, executive trainer, executive designer, a creative designer, creative guru at your company, cream right cream. Yes which is, you are the crème de la crème, we would say in French.
Speaker 1:Absolutely so. I haven't heard here. Ah, there you go, Excellent.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, and he is available. How could people find out about crème and could they use your design services for their website? How do we do that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's the creamcom, is the website Q R E aM, the creamcom. And yeah, you can get in touch with us very, very easily and we're in touch Like almost like the same day or next day. So always happy to talk to Tech guys who are willing to change the status quo and to build something really great that people are gonna remember and the website, the brands, the creative videos and just. If you need more leverage, hit us up and we're gonna do some great stuff for you.
Speaker 2:Never underestimate the power of a few passionate people to change the world, because, in fact, it is the only thing that ever has right. So Thank you, bogdan, appreciate it, and thank you people for listening to frame of reference profiles and leadership. Hope we've given you something to think about, to talk about and, mostly, I hope we've Encouraged people to ask why, why? Absolutely take care my friend.