Voting in America Amidst the Echoes of Injustice

Weathering the storms of Wisconsin's unpredictable climate, we find ourselves grappling with the headaches of allergies and the heat of a nation's fervent debate on voting rights. Within this episode, Antowan and I draw back the curtain on the tumultuous political theater where the cornerstone of democracy—our right to vote—is under siege. From the systemic barricades to fair access, to combating the hallucinogenic drug of voter fraud, we promise a journey through the complex labyrinth of laws and regulations shaping and destroying the very essence of our civil liberties.

This conversation isn't for the faint of heart as we tackle the stark realities facing marginalized communities, the disenfranchisement of felons, and the unnerving echoes of historical injustices that continue to reverberate through the halls of our legal systems. Antowan and I confront the contentious nature of voter ID restrictions and the integrity of elections, juxtaposing the American reality against the ideal of universal suffrage. We slice through the fog of misinformation with the sharp edge of knowledge, urging our listeners to arm themselves with the truth about their rights and the power of an informed vote.

As the episode unfolds, we weave a tapestry of empathy and understanding, drawing inspiration from biblical teachings that transcend the barriers of race and nation. We remind you that the fabric of society is not woven with threads of discord but with the yarn of unity and love. Tune in as we advocate for a world where political engagement is not a privilege but a right accessible to all, where empathy is not just a word but a practice, and where every voice can ring clear through the ballot box and beyond.

Thanks for listening.  Please check out our website at www.forsauk.com to hear great conversations on topics that need to be talked about.  In these times of intense polarization we all need  to find time to expand our Frame of Reference.

Transcript

The Importance of Voting

Speaker 1 0:00

So that's going. All right, that works, and we'll do. I'm going to record on camera too, seeing as we've got a good thing going here. Let's see if it doesn't work. We can always give it a shot. The worst that can happen is it won't work, but you'll see that going as well. All right, yep, recording started Ready. All right, yep, you're the let's have it man, right.

Speaker 2 0:26

All right, let's have it.

Speaker 1 0:30

Well, I think I'm just I'm jumping in there, antoine. I'm jumping in, man, I'm, I'm, I'm saying good morning, good afternoon, good evening. Whenever you're listening to this, I'm Raul LaBrush, that's Antoine Hallman. So, and together we are Frame of Reference coming together. So and here we are. Together. It's a Saturday morning here in Sauk Prairie, wisconsin, where I am. What's the weather like up by you, Antoine?

Speaker 2 1:03

Oh, it's 44 right now, but it feels really good right now. It it's going to be a high of 54, so we'll see.

Speaker 1 1:06

Yeah.

Speaker 2 1:07

I'll take it however it comes.

Speaker 1 1:09

Yeah, exactly. Well, you know, lately I don't know if people watch the weather much, but Wisconsin has been like I don't know, man, there's something flippy going on with Mother Nature, which you know. We don't have to go into the climate change fiasco. That argument just is another whole thing. All I can ask you to do is look at the data. But the end of the day, it's been like, you know, 40, one day 30, 20, you know, and then the next day 72. And I don't know about you, man, but I've been getting headaches lately and I can't help but think it's like just the barometric changes and the weather changes. My body's going, oh hello, what season are we in? So that, absolutely I don't know. Are you, do you have that kind of thing with weather, or not?

Speaker 2 2:01

Oh yeah, absolutely man. And, of course, like this is that time of year for me where, when even though we it's like we can't see it, but things are starting to pollinate, things are starting to grow, the earth is changing and our bodies will tell that via allergy sometimes.

Speaker 1 2:15

Yeah.

Speaker 2 2:16

And it's like you said, with those weather changes. This is that tricky weather where, regardless of how it feels, you need to be prepared with a uh, with a nice jacket, even something to cover your ears. Just uh being prepared, because you know it could be 50 at 10 am and then 30 at 2 pm. So, yeah, yeah, just uh being prepared, and but also just uh recognizing the seasons. You know, uh, recognizing the best we can of the seasons yeah, yeah, even though it feels good. Hey, it's still March.

Speaker 1 2:47

Yeah, let's not lose our frame of reference here, folks. It is not even spring yet when it comes down to the calendar. So you know, no matter what the weather is and everything, give thanks. Try to at least Absolutely.

Speaker 1 3:02

I had a friend, a guy that I've talked with a number of times, jerry Apps, and he comes from a farming background. When he was a kid back in the 30s, he would talk about how one summer it was just so dry and they would hear the cows just moaning and he said I don't think I've ever heard the cows make that sound since then, but it was such a sorrowful sorrowful, no, not sorrowful. Yeah, I can't talk today, ladies and gentlemen, I'm so sorry. And his dad said you know they're thirsty and you know we can't give them enough water, and it's just they're baying for water. And his dad said no, son, never curse the rain, never, ever curse the rain, rain.

Speaker 1 3:47

We had a rainy day the other day. I remember that again because we're all, uh, you know, just, it just poured all day long. It was just. You know, you could hear the rain on the roof, blah, blah, blah. And outside people are just coming in miserable because they got all wet just walking from the car, blah blah, and friend of mine who I work with was a farmer said, yeah, we needed the rain though. So, whatever we have today, try to think of it as something somebody, somewhere, needs, and that's OK. So it's OK. So, absolutely, speaking of needs, what's our topic today? And we were just talking to you, we had you had a topic that I don't know might be a little important right now. What was our topic again?

Speaker 2 4:25

Well, we know we're talking about the importance of voting and you know, of course, the rights to vote, the elements of voting, and you know how can we secure our right to vote and those things. Because, again, it's like those rights have been under attack since then, but now it's the things that are being done to suppress or oppress voters is becoming so blatant and so just in your face, that we have to tighten down so people only vote once and so that people that are dead aren't voting and that people aren't.

Speaker 1 5:08

You know, forging registrations and all the things that get kind of used as a thing that says your vote is being undermined and we want to protect your vote. So we got to make these, you know, things that make it more rigid, more difficult to cheat the system if you will. And the reality is, you know folks you don't have to listen to me Just you know, do some research, do some stuff to just check different sources and things. But we have the hardest system for a democracy to vote right now. We think about it for just a second. Think about the fact that you have to vote on a Tuesday, okay. You have to vote during a time of the day where most people are working, okay. And yeah, there's a timeframe there. You know they go until eight o'clock. The polls close at eight o'clock. Well, you know there are a lot of people, you know you might be one of them, but there are a lot of people. We have friends that work multiple jobs, so they have to usually either take time off of work and make sure they get the Tuesday off so that they can at least have the nighttime to go, or they have to take a long lunch or whatnot, and oftentimes the people that have the hardest time doing that are the poorest people, right? So there's attack number one. And then the fact that a lot of democratic countries they have voting on a Saturday, you know they make it so that they actually have a couple of days of voting capability so that it does accommodate, it does give people the opportunity to cast their vote. All the things that you know you would think in a democracy where you want everyone, where people have died for us, to have the right to vote. You know we have literally lost hundreds of thousands, millions of people and soldiers have given up their lives for our democracy, and the fundamental nature of that democracy is the right to vote, the right to be able to choose your representatives in a federalist government like our own. And yet that isn't happening.

Speaker 1 7:06

The number of precincts is changing, the places, the voting locations has been reduced significantly, again, trying to tighten things up right, make it more secure. And then, not only so, the time is different, the number of places that you can vote is different, and then, during the course of COVID, we opened it up and actually encouraged people to do mail-in voting because so many people were afraid to go out of the house Made complete sense, right? Well, now, as COVID has retracted, all of a sudden, that's this area. That's just ripe with potential abuse, because people can know, people can send on multiple, you know, ballots, whatnot, blah, blah, blah. Okay, so all that came under attack. Now, right, we're trying to pull all that back there. You know votes or laws being put into place to reduce the number of mail votes. There's laws put in place to make it more stringent when all the voting precincts. And yet, talk with people in your area that actually handle the votes, talk with the people that are actually there at the voting stations and ask them about the corruption and the potential for fraudulent votes and I'll guarantee you they will tell you. Well, the system we have is pretty rigid. We're checking for IDs Heck.

Speaker 1 8:24

I have two people in my family. My wife and my daughter are pretty much housebound. I mean, both of them are disabled to the point where mail-in ballot makes it tremendously easier for them to cast their vote. And in our little town, my little town, I felt like a criminal because the voting people at my district, when I handed in their voting their votes, their mail-in votes that were legitimately attained. I was questioned like can they really not come and vote? Are you sure these are their ballots?

Speaker 1 8:57

They haven't cast another ballot, have they? I mean, it was. I'm like in our little town. They did that so that to make sure there wasn't a fraudulent vote going on. That kind of thing is just like the tiny shred of what happens. And so when you sit and tell me because your friend Carl told you, oh yeah, I saw this thing where there are all kinds of corrupted votes we just had an election there were what 50-some cases trying to investigate fraudulent voting. Every single one got voted down, oftentimes by Republican judges, by Republican legislators. There were multiple investigations in. I mean, it was groups of Republicans looking for corruption, looking for things. They didn't find anything.

Speaker 1 9:51

And yet we're still holding on to this idea that we have to protect the vote. So make it harder for people to vote. Well, guess what? Guess what? We're fighting a dragon that doesn't even exist. We're like Don Quixote fighting with windmills that don't exist for some high cause that we think we need to maintain. And it's ridiculous. Folks, just make it so people vote. We have enough systems in place already to make it so you can't vote, and the number of votes that might be.

Speaker 1 10:23

Can somebody figure a way to cheat the system? Yeah, probably. But guess what. The people that could cheat the system more are not the ones that we're keeping from voting. It are the ones that have the money and the power to sway the vote the way they want it to be swayed. You know it.

Speaker 1 10:51

Just, it boggles my mind that we can't figure out. It's not the enemy that we're being led to believe is the enemy, isn't the enemy. That's not the right enemy. The enemy is anyone that would want to take away your vote to your right to vote, whoever you are, and make it harder for you to vote, because there are white people as well as black people. There are, you know, latinx. I don't care who you are If you don't have the wherewithal to be able to even get to the voting districts.

Speaker 1 11:23

That's the other thing about voting districts. They're usually not on bus routes, isn't that interesting? And I don't know about you, but a lot of poor people that I know don't have a car, and if they do have a car, they can't even rely on it working most days to get to work. So they at least, when they take jobs, they take jobs that are on bus routes. So at least they have a backup plan, right? So what are we doing? What are we doing? Somebody please answer that question. What are we doing that we're making it harder and harder and harder and harder for the people that are struggling the most to even vote for a person that at least has a half a chance of giving one rat's about whether or not they get a fair shake. I don't know. I'm sorry man. There I go. I just went on to my tirade about how stupid we can be.

Barriers to Fair Voting Access

Speaker 2 12:12

Well, we got to look at the current environment, right, and, of course, right now, in my eyes, if you look at what's going on, it's going to be power versus policy. You know, of course, and it's just, and that's what it is we're in an age of globalization. You know people want to centralize or monopolize the power. You know you get this social, racial, economic inequalities going on, you got these demographic shifts going on, you got this political polarization going on, and then, of course, you get the radical disruption of media and the information environments, and so it's like people are becoming numb to things that they should be actually very, very concerned about, and but the thing is, it's all by design, this confusion and this distraction and disruption. It is all by design because you know, again, when we're talking about voting rights, you know people have been the first. You know, just keep it going back to when women had to fight for a right to vote, people of color had to fight for a right to vote, and then, of course, even though the Constitution gave some parameters of the right to vote, but it's not etched in stone, and so what needs to happen now, though, is just what we see is just a dysfunctional democracy. It's just flat out dysfunctional. You touched on a lot of great things there. You know, of course, talking about the equality of voices and the right to fair representation. You know voting. You know, of course it starts with taking away the right to fair representation. You know we bought. You know voting. You know, of course it starts with taking away the right right.

Speaker 2 13:49

You know, again, it's like they are making it. They're putting up all these roadblocks and barriers to make it so harder to vote, especially in rural areas or in parts of the country where it's hard to get identification, like you mentioned, there's, you know, places in the South, particularly like, say, mississippi, alabama, some parts of Georgia, louisiana, let's just call it what it is. A lot of people in those areas, when they were born, they may have been born in a house, they have been born in a space where, just all that, to say this, they don't have a birth certificate. So right away they, without a proper birth certificate, or no that birth certificate, they cannot get a proper identification. And then also, let's just say, even if a person can get the proper identification with these other barriers, now they're asking for multiple forms of ID. You know, it's like if you have a in a perfect, in the simplest of things, if you just simply have your current state issue ID or driver's license, you should be able to vote. But let's keep in mind when I say that, because again it's like now it's like, oh, we need a bill, we need this. We need that mind when I say that, because again it's like now it's like, oh, we need a bill, we need this, we need that. We got to understand people's living arrangements. Some people, they may have their current identification card or driver's license, but they don't have an address where they pay a utility or light bill. They live in area, they may be homeless. It's a combination of things that has been. These things have been put in place.

Speaker 2 15:28

These roadblocks, these barriers are a deeper issue of what has been happening in the country since the beginning of time, since the beginning, and so now it's like, well, we have, we cut off the right, we cut off the ability to educate, we cut off the ability to get the proper identification, we cut off the ability to vote, we minimize the voting polls, we minimize all these different things. We want to keep election day on the third, on that, whatever the first Tuesday, knowing that a lot of these people in these various places. They have to work and of course you get off, work at uh let's. Let's say, in a perfect world you get off, but work at uh 6 pm and then you got to go, stand in the line for x amount of hours and and it's just, it's just all these various roadblocks, you know, and but the thing is it goes even deeper. You know, of course again, because, like, when we're talking about, you know the address, you know we have to address the redistricting, you know the congressional districts we have.

Speaker 2 16:31

One of the biggest things in my eyes is campaign finance reform. You know, there's so much dark money in these spaces that drive these federal legislators and then, of course, the state legislators follow suit and then, before you know it, it's like all of these different things have been put in place. And again, there are certain things in the constitution that had given us the ability to vote. But the states individually, and actually now some of them collectively, have put up all these various roadblocks. They have learned to circumvent the constitution or voting rights acts when it was in place. They've done all these different things to minimize the ability for the people of color to vote. Why? Because they want to hold on power.

Speaker 2 17:20

And again it goes, of course you know we're talking about the great replacement theory. We're talking about, you know, just race politics. All it is race, power, money. That's what it all comes down to. And of course, we see these very things. You know, of course, like we see that all these various organizations, they are able to influence our elections so greatly by the money they give and, of course, by the money they give, it influences our legislators, state and federal, to vote and to act and behave in certain ways and it just again it minimizes our ability to have access to a free and fair election.

Speaker 2 18:03

And, yes, the very people that are the very people that are hollering election fraud, are the very people that are committing it. If that is not a classic case of projection and and we're in a what about? Ism a projectionist, uh way, right now and this is where, again, we were talking about this a couple episodes ago where, just simply put, no people have to be educated in the basics of politics, knowing what each branch of government is responsible for, knowing what your state legislator is, your legislative powers that be are responsible for and what rights you have as a voter for and what rights you have as a voter. And again, it's like minimizing, taking away all these various things. Taking away, you know, not being able to get proper identification or putting these tight restrictions on what identification can be used, because why is it that you can use your state ID to buy alcohol, but you can't use your state ID to vote In some places?

Speaker 1 19:10

Yeah, exactly why.

Voter ID Restrictions and Election Integrity

Speaker 2 19:12

And so what, what, what, what is that about? And and again, it's just, uh. We have to empower voters, you know, by removing these, these barriers. Uh, it's just. It's just a thing where it's so blatant and it's so uh, in front of our faces that people have become numb to it. Now we here in Wisconsin, we have the luxury of even though, yeah, there are some things in play even here in Wisconsin, but yet we still, you know, have means to get to vote. You know the ID restrictions aren't as strict as they are in the South, where you know that you've put these barriers in place 30, 40 years ago, you know, where people are just so impoverished, like I was saying, they don't even have the ability to get a birth certificate, and you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 20:02

And so it's like, it's almost like they?

Speaker 2 20:05

they in the eyes of, in the eyes of the country, they don't even exist.

Speaker 2 20:11

Yes, you were given a name by your parents and you walk this earth, but on paper, on the scrolls, so to speak, you don't exist and it's like so how do you get a person that don't know who their mom and dad is, don't even know what state they were born in? How do you what, what, what can we put in place to help these people get the proper identification? Because, I mean, that's one of the things that we do, we, when a person is able to help, you know, help them. When we are able to help people, the first thing we have to ask them is hey, do you know what state you were born in? Do you know your mother's maiden name? And that's one of some of the first things that we need in order to order, like, say, being here in Wisconsin, someone born in Georgia or Texas, somewhere. We have to have that information to be able to get them their identification, to make them employable. But again, these things have been put in place by design, systemically and systematically over years.

Speaker 1 21:11

But look at the. You know we talk about the folks that are coming in through the border. We have to build the wall right to protect ourselves from all these undocumented illegal folks that are coming into America and taking American jobs. And you know all of the rhetoric that gets used to fuel people's fears. And the reality is if you've ever taken the test or seen the test that people have to take to become an American citizen.

Speaker 2 21:37

Naturalization process.

Speaker 1 21:40

Yeah, go, go ahead and try to take that test. You know those of us that are Americans by birth right and that you know had families that actually could have children in a hospital at where you know the filing of a birth certificate is, you know, a legal requirement, right, go ahead and see if you could pass that test. You know cause it's it's nine year impossible, especially given what our history curriculums are required to teach as a result of most of the Department of Instructions, and what they set up as the mandated things that have to be followed. And then you combine that with the fact that most kids, most kids in high school, where they're taking history classes where they would learn those things, are bored out of their minds by the curriculum. So they don't listen, they don't learn, okay, and there's really no you know, consequence if they don't they maybe get a C instead of an A, but I got through it, right. Um, it's that stuff alone is enough to make you go.

Speaker 1 22:36

Okay, what's going on here? But this corruption deal, I got it. I just this is bugging me so much these days, but we're we're so busy chasing after the 10 or 12 votes that somebody did because they figured out some way to get someone's identity and come in as a person that was dead, or they figured out a way to do a second ballot at a second precinct, or I don't know how the heck they even find these things that were, you know, corrupted or signs of you know faking vote. But put that aside. If there's as many different investigations as there were during the 2020 election and they were able to come up with not a single situation where they were able to turn around the vote or had a reason to investigate, to the point of trying to turn the vote back to the other side and this was an argument that has been used, interesting to me every time I have voted Republican and I get more and more upset when I see, every time the Republican candidate loses in recent times, we complain it's got to be corruption. There's no way we could have lost because you know our candidate wasn't the best. Because we're Republicans, we know we had the winner. I don't hear that when Democrats lose, I don't hear that argument being used. Of the corruption. I mean Hillary Clinton, who you know had the, by all counts, won the popular vote but didn't win the electoral vote. She needed to become president. She didn't continue on, you know, for four years saying how it was stolen from her.

Speaker 1 24:15

Okay, so don't agree with Hillary Clinton. I voted against Hillary Clinton those of you you know I just I didn't want another Clinton in office. I'm sorry, I just didn't and that that stuff was. That was my right to vote that way and I would hope people would respect I respect people that voted for her. They had absolutely good reasons in their mind and the way, the things that were important to them, good reasons for voting for them and I don't argue with that.

Speaker 1 24:40

But now we've gotten this whole thing where we're chasing after these little votes that are perceived and that we blow up into. It's a huge. It's obvious that there's fraud going on. Folks. The real fraud that's going on is this. That's where the fraud comes from when I have the ability to spend the money that I need to spend.

Speaker 1 25:00

Look at the Cambridge analytics situation. Okay, look it up. You don't know about Cambridge Analytics and what they did to sway elections, what they did in their campaigns through social media during the Clinton and Trump election. That should terrify people. Data that is available through, in this case, a certain little company with an F as their logo that they were able to glean from that database of information and construct advertising that took advantage of the most vulnerable points in the opposition's planks of beliefs and things that they stood for, and then twist things in a way that was beneficial.

Speaker 1 25:54

The fact that any party could do that any party makes it more likely that both parties will do that. So when you're being fed a line of they're going to do this, they're not tough on crime, whatever, they're not going to build a wall. We need that wall, whatever it is, because there are things that all of us are vulnerable to. There's stuff that scares us, that we're concerned about. There's crime. Nixon back in the 60s was really successful with a tough on crime bent that he really purported during his campaign.

Speaker 1 26:29

You know right, tough on crime and you know people, because people are afraid, people that have been hurt by, people that have friends, family members that have been hurt because of crimes that were committed against them. That's a sensitive spot and they stick a knife in it and they just twist it Instead of thinking about, at the end of the day, what's most important is that you and I, and anyone that I don't agree with, has the right to vote and it is made as possible as is possible for them to vote. I mean, the ID thing worries me because my wife is so homebound that her license has expired me, because my wife is so homebound that her license has expired and I don't know it's going to be really hard to get her to the DMV to be able to either get her license extended or renewed and or get her a state ID, and you know so. You know the other option she has is a utility bill, which most of the utility bills are in my name. So I'm going to have to. You know, either say to the village, can you please change your electric bill to be in my wife's name. I don't know. You know what it's going to take to keep her current or, you know, keep her vote valid.

Speaker 1 27:36

But I can't imagine what it's like for a kid that, as you said, I, you know, forgive me, I never even thought of that. That these kids that are born in houses or you know, had midwives or whatever. Had you know someone that was a skilled nurse that could, you know, have them, deliver them safely, so that they were viable when they were born, but then to be told, okay, well, we're going to have to file a birth certificate. How much is that? $50?, $50? Ah, $50, you know.

Speaker 2 28:05

And that's been going back. That goes back again to the 30s, 40s, 50s, you know, right after slavery was abolished. You know, of course, it was just people born. They were born into this world, given a name by their parents, but on the scrolls they don't exist, right. And then, of course, what we're talking about, you know the scrolls, you know, of course, when we're talking about this whole election process, I believe that the intent is to keep the voting process. So fractured that it is, it makes room for these types of things. You know, like a voter, like it's like purging the scrolls, like if a person chooses not to whether they can or cannot vote in a certain state election or whatever, oh, you didn't vote the last cycle, so we're going to purge you from the scroll and then you have to re-register, right, right.

Speaker 1 28:56

Well, what about crime? Too Right, you commit a crime and you sacrifice the right to vote. Right, Look at crime rate.

Speaker 2 29:05

Yeah, and it's just like you know, of course, just when it comes to the right to vote, you know, and, yeah, and it's just like you know, of course, just when it comes to the right to vote. You know these things that some of the simplest things that can be done, they refuse to do, like just simply, you know, establishing, through state and federal legislation, same day, voter registration, same day. You know again, because, again, because a lot of times you won't even know that you've been purged from a scroll until you go to vote, because a lot of times you won't even know that you've been purged from a scroll until you go to vote. And then, of course, like to eliminate all these, these accusations of voter fraud. You know, of course, we've been screaming for this forever A universal automatic voter registration type of system where you know it's like your name is on in your state or in your state, your name is on the scroll, you know what I mean.

The Right to Vote in America

Speaker 2 29:50

That way you don't have to register in your district. Then, when it's time for state elections, then when it's time for federal elections, you got to go through these same hoops all over again. It should just be one system. And yes, you made a great point there. It is time to restore the voting rights of people that have felony convictions. You know, if they are, you know, even I'll even give a little leeway to this. My initial belief is you committed a crime. You're still a citizen of this country. You're still a citizen Because, again, that was one of the because this whole felon not being able to vote.

Speaker 2 30:31

That goes back to the 30s and 40s, because that's again right after slavery was abolished and so they started arresting people for jaywalking and putting them right back on the chain gang to keep them under the thumb, so to speak. But it's like, regardless of what you've done, you know you should have the right to vote. Because, keeping in mind, even if I'm just going to say, even if you chose to go that route, let's just say, what about their vote? After their Jail time, parole, probation, whatever, whatever time is served for the offense committed, their rights should be reestablished automatically and immediately. But again it's like remember we saw what happened in Florida. It wasn't just black people, it was white people that were getting arrested because they voted, because they had felony convictions, right.

Speaker 2 31:26

And this is just bad that again the voting process is deliberately fractured. And the thing is there are so many simple, I believe, so many simple solutions, you know, just by the simple adaptation of various formats, processes, even technologies, to just get people on one accord. I'm a firm but, like a lot of people say, I don't want the federal government in every aspect of my business. But there are some things I think just need to be universal, and that is the right to vote, the right to choose, the right to do whatever. Just those things within the law you should have the right to choose, the right to do whatever you know. Just those things within the law you should have the right to do. And but it's like again given power to various states to do what they want to do. We see how these things are corrupting the system, so to speak. It's fracturing the structure, is it's actually killing the very republic that we call, you know, america.

Speaker 1 32:31

We should be the FSA instead of the USA. Because USA, united States of America, if we can't be united over our right to vote? Okay, because our right to vote is fundamental to maintaining our, the amendments of our constitution, right. We have the right to bear arms. We have the right to free speech. We have the right to practice religion the way we choose to practice our religion. Um, those rights are foundationally guaranteed by the right to vote period. You take away the right to vote, you limit the right to vote. I mean Russia and Putin are coming up with their elections.

Speaker 1 33:20

Interesting that the one person that was a serious contender to him previously shows up dead in a gulag. Interesting. So we have a current series of court trials going on right now testing whether or not a president has immunity so that, in the course of his duties as a president, he can do whatever he wants. And when the question was posed, including having an opponent, a political opponent, assassinated, the answer was no, it wasn't. You know well. No, of course not, we wouldn't do that. No, the answer was a president needs to be able to do whatever. That's the argument being used legally. A president has to be able to do whatever is necessary, you can't restrain them, otherwise they won't be able to function effectively. So if, depending on how those trials go in the United States of America, we may allow that we may have to say that we allow that.

Speaker 1 34:18

So what can of worms does that open? So the reason I say we should be the FSA is because we are. Whether we want to admit it, we have become the fractured states of America. So if we don't like the way a vote went, we do the sore loser thing right. I mean, when I was a kid, if you lost the game by a run or, you know, buy a kick, whatever you know it was, if you lost the game, you lost the game. You didn't go and say, well, that ref was corrupt. We lost the game because he's just he's playing for the other side. Yeah, that happened, but those people that did those things were sore losers, sore losers, and we have somehow now gotten to the place where being a sore loser is just an acceptable part of the game. The only way I know of to get rid of sore losers is any game is to let them not play the game because it's no fun to play with. You know, I don't get it.

Speaker 1 35:27

America, at what point do we say no? Our right to vote is so sacrosanct, it's so fundamental to who we are as a democracy, and we're not even really a democracy. We're a federal republic, but our democratic rights are in that we get to choose the people that represent us in the government. If we take away the right to choose who represents us by gerrymandering and both parties have done gerrymandering, so don't tell me that, oh, those Republicans or those Democrats, both parties do it. Okay. So it's the same shell game regardless of who's in control. But anything that does that, anything that's going to restrict having fewer precincts, making sure that the precincts that you choose and the voting locations you choose are far enough away from you know, whatever, that it's hard, for it makes it harder for some people to get there. It's like there's the old, what is it? A Chinese proverb the death by a thousand cuts, the death by a thousand cuts. Our right to vote is suffering a death by a thousand cuts. And please, somewhere, people of rationality, people that are of influence, people that have friends that think that this corruption stuff is really something they should be spending time on, please, god, help us find ways to pierce through that darkness and say, guys, the enemy is not the Democrat or the Republican, the enemy is the have, the one that has the power, that is choosing the media, that is controlling the social media, that is, controlling the message and the narrative of the people in those locations, those people that have the funds, the resources to be able to sway that stuff. That's where the corruption is. Keep your eyes on that corruption, keep your eyes on exposing that corruption, because that's where the real game is being played.

Speaker 1 37:20

And all this other stuff, the wall, blah, blah, blah. I get it. It really gets some people agitated and there are problems there that I don't even understand. I get it. It really gets some people agitated and there are problems there that I don't even understand. I get it. But at the end of the day it's all smoke and mirrors because that stuff distracts us from the real core issue. We want people. We want people. We demand that every person possible that can vote should be given the opportunity and make it as strong a possibility that they will be able to vote, that there won't be any hindrances there for them to vote. And we have computer networks, folks that can double check, triple check, to make sure that the same person or the dead people, the databases that could be checked to make sure that the vote is as sound and reliable as possible.

Importance of Voting Rights and Understanding

Speaker 2 38:11

Those things can be done, we can do that A lot of those things are being done. It's just simply, if you float the lie out there, there's a group of people that will believe and repeat it. You know, of course. You know like a lot of these protections are already in place, but again, it's the optic of the thing.

Speaker 2 38:28

You know, of course, if you say it enough times to a certain, if you say it enough times, it'll become true to a certain group of people. You know what I mean. Yeah, Gables was real good at that.

Speaker 1 38:37

The Nazi propagandist. He realized that three times and they'll start believing it. So it doesn't matter if it's a bold-faced lie, if it's absolutely ridiculous. The first time you say it, people are going to be huh. The second time you say it they're like hmm. The third time they're going to say oh, wow, and it's like comedy. You do a shtick and three times, and after three times you got to stop. But with propaganda, after three times you just keep milking it.

Speaker 2 39:03

It's an interesting phenomenon in the human psyche. And again, though and it is those things that you know it, the voting process should expand the participatory opportunities of us that want to be a part of the decision making process, even in our local municipalities. On state level, whatever federal level, we want to be a part. That's why we vote to be a part of the decision making, the budgeting, the policy making process. You know, instead of trying to continuously try to expand the participatory process, we want to try to eliminate or minimize it. Of course, when we look at those southern states, you know, of course they're trying to minimize the participation of people by again, putting these roadblocks up, or even like, say, in certain states where they have the right to walk around with no semi-automatic weapons, they just walk up and down, they just walk around with their guns. That's enough to detour people. It is to detour people, to get them to not to vote.

Speaker 2 40:08

And, again, depending on where you are in the South or in the country, these practices are allowed and even like, say, attacking election workers, attacking them. We saw what happened to those two women in Georgia. It's like that has been happening all over the country. That just happened to be a more polarized case, but you know, in Arizona it's other cases where just people election officials are being threatened, that people are just standing outside their homes with guns or just standing outside their homes chanting, following them around, their children around, trying to discourage participation. And this is where, again, these, when we can get to a space where there's a more universal voter registration system, we're going to have to rewrite or add another amendment or another article amendment to the Constitution that just flat out says every natural born citizen, or every citizen that is naturalized under the current, whatever process, has the right to vote. Plain and simple.

Speaker 1 41:23

Well, look at the Voting Rights Act out of the 60s right During the Civil Rights Movement. That's been being rolled back. There were provisions of it that were just stripped away by the Supreme Court.

Speaker 2 41:34

And even before it was stripped away, again, various states were looking for a way to circumvent it and throw loopholes in it and, just again, flat out, discourage and flat out, discourage. You know, uh, and this is where, uh, we are in a time and in a space where those that have the ability and the voice to speak has to speak, um and and again. It's just like and how do we change these things? By voting, uh, certain groups of people, or the powers that be, they know that if every, because, again, if everyone has the right to vote, yes, there's going to be a total shift in the way things are done and, yes, and there are going to be more immigrant elected officials. That's going to happen one way or the other. But a lot of people don't realize, of course, no, they're fighting against democracy, but they're trying to think oh, we want autocracy, we want the strong man approach you, it sounds good until you're living under it.

Speaker 1 42:39

Yeah, it's going to, it's got that strong man approach.

Speaker 2 42:42

It's going to sound good until you're living under it, and that's why it's like again going back to understanding and learning the basic principles of some form of political education, to know when something is said to you you can say for a fact that hey, no, that doesn't sound right because that's not how the Constitution lays it out, that's not how that branch of government operates. You can know for yourself and then you can learn to discern lies. You can start to minimize misconceptions. We can minimize the amount of propaganda.

Speaker 2 43:14

We have knowledge over narratives, right, yeah, yeah, because again knowledge over narratives I like that and that's where we got to get to, and. But a lot of times, you know, a lot of people don't want to take the time to research things for themselves. They just say, oh well, such and such said it. I like that person, I trust that person. Well, no, oh, that person. You know, they dress nice every day. They must be telling the truth and it's like the devil dressed like an angel, right, right President.

Speaker 1 43:43

Lincoln, there, angel, right, right, president Lincoln. There's a name most of us can agree great president, right, president Lincoln. One of my favorite quotes of his is, he remarked I don't like that man very much. I must get to know him better. Why, if that isn't a Christian principle, I don't know what is. But you know, how about it? How about you next time you're at a family, get together and you're, you know, amongst people that are from a differing point of view than you are? A friend of mine, taught me he. Just you know. I've asked him, you know how do you deal with that? I mean, it's just, it's so difficult to you know, hear people like spewing out the anger and hatred. And he said you know, I just try to say that's really interesting that you believe that. Tell me more about why you believe that and engage in a dialogue that says huh, that's really interesting. And try to not be judgmental. But to what's the old saying, don't seek to respond, seek to understand. Because in the seeking to understand one another, a bridge begins to be built. It becomes safer and safer to convey what you believe, and we live in a free country.

Speaker 1 45:01

I don't believe in what Muslim believers believe. I don't. I don't believe, but I want to believe that the right for them to believe what they believe is what our founding fathers meant when they said you have the right to practice religion. You have the freedom to practice religion Because, where they came from, the king determined which religion you could practice and that was the only religion you could practice. So they recognized that that was not a form of government, that was of the people, by the people and for the people. So don't have to agree with it, to agree that people have the right to vote for or against a candidate that will fight for their ability to have that or fight for some other concept that is really not foundational to our country. So because I'm a Christian, born again Christian, you know, I don't want to make people feel uncomfortable that are non-Christians, because that goes contrary to what I believe Christianity is about.

Speaker 1 46:03

I don't judge people. It's not my job to judge people, not my job to say you're going to hell if I don't judge people. It's not my job to judge people, not my job to say you're going to hell if you don't. You know, yeah, I know the verses about. I am the way, the truth and the life, and no man comes to the Father but through me. I know that verse and that concerns me with people that I care about. But I also know that I'm not the one that makes the decision. So my job is to love people, so that transfers to everybody.

Speaker 1 46:28

You know, as an actor I'm really happy I had an acting background, because acting taught me early on that you don't get to judge people, because no one in a play that is produced sees themselves as an antagonist. So you have to figure out what is it about this character, who I might find personally to be deplorable, just an absolute despicable person, but in that person's mind, in that character's mind, there's a justification for why they are the way they are. And you have to figure that out Because if you're going to play them effectively, you've got to know what their thing is and why they are the way they are. They got beaten, whatever. They were raped in prison. Who knows? You come up with the thing that makes sense, given the character. So make sense when we're talking about voting rights, make sense. Find out.

Speaker 1 47:19

People believe that there was so much corruption. Ask them where's the data? I'd like to understand how you came to believe that. Have you talked with people that actually run some of the voting precincts. Well, no, I said well.

Speaker 1 47:30

It kind of doesn't behoove us to kind of talk with the people that really do it instead of the people that have an opinion about how it's done. Talk to the people who really do it. You know I'm not going to talk to, you know, some jerk off the street. When my car is making a funny noise, I find a mechanic that I trust, somebody that actually does mechanics. So voting isn't as important as whether or not I get the noise in my car fixed, isn't it? So I think maybe it's a little more important than the noise that my car makes. So why do we approach it in such a frankly asinine way to not understand and talk to the noise that my car makes? So why do we approach it in such a frankly asinine way to not understand and talk to the people that really know? No, we listen to people that are controlling a narrative and making sure that we hear the parts of the story that they want us to hear, so that they undermine our trust in democracy, our trust in our voting system, our trust in you know the news, media, fake news. You know alternative facts. We're. You know the news media, fake news. You know alternative facts were. You know really alternative facts.

Speaker 1 48:31

When I was a kid, an alternative fact was a lie. Okay, no, mom, I know I didn't. I know I didn't have the cookies. I don't know where they. Just I don't know. Maybe somebody else came into the house and took cookies. I don't know, mom, I know I didn't take the cookies. That's an alternative fact. But the reality is I got video footage of you taking the cookies because I put a camera in there. Oh no, well, that was somebody. Obviously that was dressed as me, because I still didn't take those cookies. That was obviously somebody's wearing a hat. That's a really good mask of me too. I mean, you can keep spreading the alternative fact as long as you want, but you took the cookies. You did. You did. So fess up.

Speaker 2 49:14

I like the analogy you use about the broken vehicle and, of course, like the voting rights discussion. It's like the engine light in a car, you know, of course I believe, because I believe the ability to vote is the engine that drives this country. And some people don't like, sure, may not like the way the country is, the way that it's going to be driven, and they want to stop it by any means. But it's like this. You know, like, say, that engine light comes on. It's been blinking forever, but you know it's like, instead of addressing the blinking engine light, you are more and you're more concerned with why the AC isn't working or why the heat isn't working, but not realizing that that is just a symptom of the deeper issue. And this is where we have to get to the deeper issue of the. When we're talking about voting, when we're talking about voting and again, just just talking to family members and just being in the being a black male in this country, it just when you hear the stories, you see them firsthand All you could do is just say, lord, what can we do to change this? And then again, going back to the earlier part of our conversation, where it's just a lot of things that are, have been, since been, and again, and it's like how do we, what do we do to correct that?

Importance of Voter Engagement and Empathy

Speaker 2 50:34

How can we reinvent American democracy? How can we reinvent it? What can we, what do we need to do? You know, how can we get more people? How can we welcome or Welcome or just, or even just a more welcoming environment when it comes to the forms of politics as a whole? No, how can we get more people involved in just the local branches of government, local voting procedures? How can we get more people in more diverse groups of people involved? Yeah, yeah, you know, of course, like when you go to a city county building, now, you know what do you see? You know you go to the city county building. Yeah, it's like I don't want to go down that road, because it is what it is, but yeah, that's next time.

Speaker 2 51:27

But is this simply, is that's next time? Yeah, that's next time, but it's just simply, it's just like the people that it's almost like I'll use. It's just the very thing that you need help with. There's someone in a position of power holding that thing and they will actually not give you that thing. I've hit that wall so many times and it's like, okay, it's like how can I change this? And again, it's like it starts with the right to vote and yeah, and we just have to foster a more welcoming environment, a more fostering climate to people, even people with the ability to vote free, clear, fair, square. If, in a lot of instances in this country, we know this to have to have nots Right, they may not be a bad person, it's just like. It's just simply, hey, if it doesn't affect me, why bother? And that's kind of the way some things are. Yeah, yeah, we, when it comes to this issue of voting, we need it's all hands on deck kind of thing, right here, right now, and but also with the the participation, participation part. Right, you know, you know, right, our, our elected officials.

Speaker 2 52:50

I just believe that there need to be more. I remember, like I remember, the days of town halls, right, or or whatever the case may be, and it's like we got to get back to more of those. But not only that. It needs to be in a space where more people are invited to come. It needs to be in a space where more people are invited to come. Don't have it just in way hickey Wisconsin and just say, ok, yes, I'm, because you may have a cluster of minority voters, but you put this event on so far away from them that they can't come and confront you about things that are important to them. You, being their representative, won't get to hear or don't want to hear, right? I mean my state senator. Do you think he want to hear anything?

Speaker 1 53:39

Yeah, don't go there. That'll be another whole hour, so that's another. Okay, he lives in Green Bay, if anyone else look up and see what that would be. So anywho, well, matt, here we go again. We're going to try to keep this to like a half hour and I think we went to much closer to an hour. That's all right, just because it is, it's important, you know it really is. And I encourage people if you've got something you want to voice on the whole thing, it really is. And I encourage people, if you've got something you want to voice on the whole thing, go to wwwforsaukcom and put some comments in there. Agree or disagree.

Speaker 1 54:16

Yeah, I mean it's okay to disagree. It ought to be. That's part of what this country is all made about. It was okay to disagree with the King of England. It wasn't a really smart idea, given the military that they had versus the military we had. But there were enough people that figured it was okay to disagree, that they did it. And look what happened. Let's fight for what they built, let's fight for what they fought for and not let it be destroyed because somebody doesn't like the results. You know, I just I don't get it.

Speaker 2 54:47

Yes, brother, I'm, I'm sorry no, go ahead, I'm sorry no, I'm just saying we have to get past the republican, democrat, right, left, conservative, liberal, all. We have to get past that and and just get to the core thing the ability to vote. You know, uh, for as much as is the Bible tells us you're going to hear this sermon later in the summer for as much as is up to you, live peaceably with all men, right, but it's like, for as much as to live peaceably with all men, like you mentioned before, you got to take the time to understand that person. You got to have a little bit of empathy towards that person. You got to know what makes that person tick, learn to understand their culture, understand the process in which things are done. For as much as it is up to you, get an understanding, get an understanding of how things work. Especially in this climate right now, it's just so important for us all to just have the ability to vote, and vote freely, without fear of being retaliated against or being threatened.

Speaker 1 55:57

And so that's it for me, brother, right now, my tag on to that is the words that were on the invitation to my wedding of a woman that, over 38 years boy, what I thought she was and who I have found her to be are lined up pretty well. You know, it wasn't necessarily what I wanted her to be. It would have been much more convenient for me if she had surprised me and said, oh no, whatever you want to do is fine, but no, she's held me to task on things that I should be held to task on. But the words that she quite inspiredly wanted on our wedding invitation were beloved let us love one another For everyone that loveth, is born of God and knows God, for everyone that loveth, is born of God and knows God. And that has been so defining for me that you know I don't pretend to, you know, be a Bible scholar, but when it says to me let us love one another for everyone who loves, knows God and is born of God, that to me says oodles and boodles about what we should be doing as a country right now.

Speaker 1 57:15

I'll bet you anyone that you think is just an idiot that they voted for Trump, or an absolute jerk off because they voted for Biden. I bet you all of them love somebody. If they don't, if they're a sociopath and they don't love somebody, that's a whole different can of worms. But I bet you they love people, I bet you they care about people. So that means they know God and are born of God. So in my world that means Lincoln's words I don't like that man very much. I must get to know him better is a call to action.

Speaker 1 57:46

And the action right now we're calling for is make sure everyone you know that wants to vote can vote. And I'm trying to think now, you know, are there people in my life, are there organizations that I know of or can find out about that will help people get to vote? That have been. It's made more difficult for them to vote.

Speaker 1 58:09

And you know, understand the state ID thing. You know, even if you have a birth certificate, getting a state ID is not a cheap thing. When you're living hand to mouth, when you're working two jobs, you know, just above minimum wage or you don't have the skill set to be able to do anything beyond. You know entry-level work, you know you can just imagine how hard it is to come up with that $40 or $50, especially when you're addicted to smoking too. I mean, it's just like, wow, I don't know how people that friends of mine that I know that smoke, that have been habitual smokers, and they hang on to it because it's one of the few things that they feel like they're doing something they want to do and they're not.

Speaker 2 58:55

They figure out a way to make it happen. I don't know how they pay for it, I can't imagine. And yet I just learned something, just uh. Lastly, on that comment on that part, right, you, I did, I just learned what the current pack of uh cigarettes cost today. Uh, what, what they cost today. It's like a. I was uh talking with someone about a week or so ago and they are basically saying a pack of cigarettes is $10 a pack. Now, yeah, yeah, and I'm like my goodness. So I'm like, so if you're smoking four to five packs a week, right?

Speaker 1 59:22

right If you're buying a carton of cigarettes. That's like $100 for a carton of cigarettes, it's phenomenal. So again, look at that. I don't like smoking, but gosh, I remember when I was a kid in middle school and it was like cool to smoke, you know. So I wanted to smoke and then I found out cigarettes were I don't know 47 cents a pack. I'm like, oh, I don't have that kind of money.

Speaker 2 59:45

When I put smoking cigarettes in 2012, they were like $5 and some change, so it was like whoa, all right. But yeah, man, just awesome, man Well.

Speaker 1 59:56

I'm Raul Labrush, and you young, fine young men are who again?

Speaker 2 1:00:00

Antoine.

Speaker 1 1:00:01

Hallman Sr, and together we are frame of reference coming together. So hope we have stirred up a little bit of a pot today coming together. So hope we have stirred up a little bit of a pot today. From my perspective, I would rather have people engaged and listening close enough. They went wait a minute, I would rather have that than someone that just was like background music. We're trying not to be background music here at frame of reference. Right, right, right, okay. So, antoine, you, you behave yourself. Okay, you try to take care of yourself. All right, always, do always have made me think how is that possible for a black man in America to believe in a guy that has been depicted as a white guy with a beard? You know, that to me seems phenomenal and I want to know more about it. Okay, so I'm putting you on notice. You know that's where I'm coming from, dude.

Speaker 2 1:01:08

That's a simple project. We believe God and, of course, all of our depictions of what Jesus looked like. They vary, they differ. So it's just, I just believe God. Those that come to God must first believe that he is and, of course, just whatever man's depiction, or of course, the Bible said he had skin of brass, hair of wool, that could be anything. Yeah, so we don't know. Yeah, but the only thing I can say is I just believe him.

Unity Through Understanding the Bible

Speaker 2 1:01:35

And, of course, you know, I believe in the virgin birth. I believe that Jesus walked this earth and showed us how to live. He came and dwelt among us to the grace and truth. He died on the cross, went to hell, took the keys of sin and death and arose on the third day. So that's what I believe.

Speaker 2 1:01:55

And I believe that if white, black, green, yellow, blue, purple, brown, whatever, if we all believe that same thing, we would like you were talking about loving people, you made a lot of great points from 1 John, you know. And if we can believe those things, if we can believe the Bible for what it is, you know, instead of every race putting because, like again, depending on who's preaching it, we're the Israelites, we're the Israelites, you know, if you go to a white church, we're the Israel. Black church, we're the Israelites. Everybody wants to be the Israelites, but keep in mind the Israelites all sin, fell short, were disobedient, were hard-headed, got punished Right, went to Babylon. Yep, we all got to stop putting these racial narratives on the Bible. I'm going to leave it with this.

Speaker 2 1:02:42

But Dr Miles Monroe may he rest in heaven he said it a long time ago. He was saying the Bible in the hands of Western civilization is just becoming it has become more and more dangerous, and that was he passed away in 2010. So he said this some time ago. And but we're starting to see that more and more because, again, people are no cherry picking scriptures to fit their need or their narrative, their cause. Cherry picking scriptures to fit their need or their narrative, their cause, but again, it's the Bible as a whole. We just have to really learn to understand it and grasp it and understand that there's one narrative through the whole Bible and that was the coming of our Lord and Savior that God loves us all so much. You know that he said I'm going to gather all nations to myself. You know he said because it's right, right, all right, all right, yeah, I'm going to a sermon, but thanks, man.

Speaker 1 1:03:34

I shouldn't opened up that box. Huh, that was.

Speaker 2 1:03:36

That was some Fritos waiting to happen, right there, just simply put, like we said, we say this all the time Love people.

Speaker 1 1:03:42

Yeah, love God, you got to to love people. I love that song. You gotta love God to love people. It's like, yeah, it's true, alright, man, see you next time, be there or be square on Frame of Reference and get to stop this one.

Speaker 2 1:04:05

Hey brother.

Speaker 1 1:04:06

Well, we went over. So I guess this is one recording and that's it.

Speaker 2 1:04:11

I believe so yeah.