Frame of Reference - Coming Together
"Frame of Reference - Profiles in Leadership" and "Frame of Reference - Coming together" are conversational style shows with local, national, and global experts about issues that affect all of us in some way. I’m, at heart, a “theatre person”. I was drawn to theatre in Junior High School and studied it long enough to get a Master of Fine Arts in Stage Direction. It’s the one thing that I’m REALLY passionate about it because as Shakespeare noted, “all the world’s a stage and all the men and women merely players”. Think about the universality of that line for just a moment. Think about the types of “theatre” that play out around us every day in today’s world. The dramatic, the comedic, the absurd, the existential, the gorilla theatre (it’s a thing, look it up) that is pumped into our Smart Phones, TV’s, Radios, and PC’s every minute of every day.
Think about the tremendous forces that “play” upon us - trying to first discover, then channel, feed, nurture, and finally harvest our will power and biases in order to move forward the agendas of leaders we will likely never meet. Think of all these forces (behind the scenes of course) and how they use the basic tools of theatre to work their “magic” on the course of humanity. Emotionally charged content matched to carefully measured and controlled presentations.
With that in mind (and to hopefully counter the more insidious agendas), I bring you the Frame of Reference "Family" of podcasts, where the voices of our local and global leadership can share their passion for why and how they are leaders in their community and in many cases, the world. Real players with real roles in a world of real problems. No special effects, no hidden agenda, just the facts and anecdotes that make a leader.
And at the risk of sounding trite, I sincerely thank my wife Ann and my two children Elisabeth and Josiah for continually teaching me what leadership SHOULD look like.
Frame of Reference - Coming Together
The Role of Compassion in Political Discourse
Picture this: You're all set to record the perfect podcast episode, but just as the conversation gets going, you realize the camera isn't on. We kick things off with a light-hearted tale of our own technical challenges before diving into the serious issue of climate change, inspired by Wisconsin's unusually warm weather. This episode isn't just about environmental impacts; it's about understanding the human reluctance to face uncomfortable truths and the societal implications when we excuse inappropriate leadership behavior.
Have you ever wondered how political rhetoric shapes our values? We take you on a journey through the complexities of political discourse, with a spotlight on the controversial statements of the current president and the public's response. By examining relationships between divisive figures and their followers, we reveal how race, gender, and power dynamics intersect in today's political landscape. Our discussion is an invitation to critically assess these dynamics and understand the motivations behind aligning with such figures, even if it means challenging your own beliefs.
Lastly, join us as we explore the art of admitting faults, drawing from personal stories of marriage and humility. It's a conversation about the power of understanding different perspectives, whether in relationships or across generations. We discuss systemic political and economic issues like birthright citizenship and tariffs, emphasizing the importance of empathy and community engagement. This episode is a call to action, encouraging you to foster equality and justice in your own life, and reminding us all of the courage it takes to stand against oppression.
Thanks for listening. Please check out our website at www.forsauk.com to hear great conversations on topics that need to be talked about. In these times of intense polarization we all need to find time to expand our Frame of Reference.
Start again. Ready, go, let's have it. Hey, let's have it. Let's have what we tried to record. This and yours truly here, who works in IT. Yes, didn't remember to turn all the switches on. You know, we wanted to record Last week when we did our first. You know, welcome back after hiatus. I never got the camera turned on. I mean, I could see Antoine, so at least I knew who I was talking to, but I never turned the recording on. So you know what kind of you know inexperienced, unprofessional boob you're working with here right now. But anyways, how's it going, my man? How are you today?
Speaker 2:Everything is great, man. Just you know, just enjoyed those few good days of I guess you call it warm weather for January. The sun was shining, moved around a little bit, but other than that, man, everything is good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I always think of this time of year it's the January thaw, but usually there's about 16 inches of snow on the ground that has to thaw as well, and this year, you know, we've had virtually none in here in wisconsin, especially where I am. And uh, I'll tell you, I was reading, uh, we got a calendar this this winter for, or this year from, uh, gosh, I think it's the autobahn or no the international crane foundation and Foundation and they've got all these like creatures and stuff and they talk about how this kind of weather is actually really hard on a lot of the critters because they depend on, like, being able to burrow into snow and using that for insulation in the winter. So there might be some varmints that are, you know, appearing in places you wouldn't expect them, just because they're trying to keep warm. Baby, you know we're out here in the cold. Dude, you want to sit there and complain to me when you're sitting in your Lenox furnace, heated. You know, house, don't give me that garbage. Come live out here.
Speaker 2:And global warming doesn't exist. No, no, it doesn't. Climate change, climate change.
Speaker 1:You know what's that all about. We're gonna have to talk about climate change at some point because I I actually have a nephew that is up in alaska right now. Uh, recording this is a fun job where he records like temperature, does probes in lakes and whatnot to see what's happening to them. And you know we get caught caught up on stuff like oh, we don't know that, that hasn't been going on forever. You know we only record temperatures back 100, you know 200 years. So how do we know it's like well, yeah, actually we do know there were. You know we only record temperatures back 100,. You know 200 years. So how do we know it's like well, yeah, actually we do know there were. You know there were many ice ages. In fact, dickens, you know, lived during one when he wrote Christmas Carol. So, yeah, I get that.
Speaker 1:But the thing is it's weird to me. It's like the we don't want to accept responsibility, or that we could potentially be responsible in some way. We would just assume, you know, like not being responsible is some reason to feel better about it or to deny that it exists. It's like, you know, well, I've never had a car accident, so how do I know they exist? And then all of a sudden, you have one right in front of you, go, oh, I guess they do happen, but I didn't cause it. You know, it's like I don't get the thinking process and all this, but we started talking right before we started this recording adventure and we were talking about the whole idea of our current president and he, he continues to regularly come out and say these outlandish things. You know, and and I I think I was relating to how, you know, even on the campaign trail, he, he said things like you know, oh, I love my christians. You know, go ahead and vote this time, christians, and you won't have to vote again. And you know, that's verbatim, just about. I mean, go back and listen and listen, it's, it's still. I think it's still out there. It hasn't been rescinded, like the constitution has been from whitehousegov Check that out too. But there is a. There's like a, a tolerance level that's been building up. You know, it's like the people that build a tolerance level to arsenic and they can ingest more and more of it ultimately, until you know it would be a dose that would kill somebody else. You know boiling frogs, right, the experiments where they keep turning the Bunsen burner up a little bit. The frog never gets out until it boils to death, you know. So we're doing the same thing.
Speaker 1:I mean this guy let's just think about this for a second. The guy did fellatio with a microphone in front of a whole big group of people and they all laughed. They thought that was funny. He talked about Arnold Palmer's schlong for something like five, 10 minutes from you know, at a rally, and everybody laughed. They thought that was the greatest thing. You know, it's just so.
Speaker 1:I think about those things. And yeah, you know, if you're hanging out with a bunch of guys or something and you want to talk about Arnie Schlong, you know, let's locker room talk. I get it. I'm not like you know, oh my God, they talked about a man's penis, you know. So what?
Speaker 1:But when you're in front of a group of people, right, and you want them to vote for you, what does that tell you about us? That people like Mike Johnson, who are professed Christians, just glossed over that? Oh, you know, that's just the way he is. So my question today is we know this about the person, and now this week he's come out, we have this horrific accident where what? 67 people or something like that was killed and instead of coming out right away and saying you know, we're going to investigate this, we're going to find out what happened immediately, we're looking for a scapegoat. You know it was Biden and his policies with DEI that caused it. I mean, there's been multiple things that have been thrown out there, and so, in all of that, my question is why do we feel it necessary to keep talking about him and getting upset about the idiotic, horrible things he says?
Speaker 1:Because, let's face it, he is an attention slut. That's right. I said that on our podcast. He's an attention slut. I don't expect you to say that. Repeat that. Antoine, you're a pastor. You can't. But you can say, yeah, my heathen friend Raul that I'm ministering to, he said that word. I won't say it, right?
Speaker 1:But I'm going to say it, because that explains it better than just saying he's an attention monger. No, he's an attention slut. And what do sluts do? Right, if any kind of a slut. The more you give them attention, the more you listen to their slutty tales, the sluttier they become, because it's like oh well, you like this baby, I got some more sluttiness for you. And so my question is can we, should we, how would we avoid talking about the slut and instead talk about, you know, women of character or men of character?
Speaker 1:Let's talk about what are the things that we can do in our communities, because I don't know that nationally, we can do a lot right now, until midterms, and who knows then what we'll do. Honestly, the majority of people have to vote, and I don't know that there's a majority yet that can look at that and go, hmm, yeah, don't want that in office anymore. So you know, what do we do? Do we keep doing that, or do we just say you know what I'm done? Let's focus on what we can do here in our community. Let's focus on what we can do amongst our friends. Let's build a cocoon of compassion and decency and, you know, integrity and care and love. You know like the scripture talks about take care of the poor and the needy and the widows, you know, take care of the people that need people caring for them, and ourselves, instead of just getting upset about the Trumpism of the day.
Speaker 1:You know, did you hear what he said? Yeah, no, I didn't, and I really would rather not. Thank you very much. I've got this person that I'm caring for today, an elderly man in the neighborhood who has lost his wife. He has, you know, no one around. He's so lonely. I'm going to go spend a couple hours and just talk with him. He's got great stories. You know.
Speaker 1:Why wouldn't we do that and what is the danger of doing that, instead of continuing to get our underwear in a bundle because he said, yet again, another predictably horrible thing. It's just like he's just back going. What is the most horrible thing I can say? That will piss off the number of people and they've got some board somewhere, right, that they're figuring out. Okay, well, you could say, uh, we're going to change the gulf of mexico to gulf of america, they'll get a big contingency, all upset about that, and they'll just, they'll go be upset about that and we won't have to worry about them. I swear to god, he must be doing something like that because it's just so pathologically logical that he is doing the things he is doing. All right? Well, there I am. I've said about my piece, I I'm going to shut up now and let you talk. Gosh, sorry, antoine.
Speaker 2:You're fine man and, of course, what the Bible says man from the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks right, and so this person, he is doing nothing but speaking what is truly on his heart. And the question was do we continue to listen? Can we cut him off? Can what do we do? We continue to give them attention is almost like we have to. Unfortunately, we have to because we have to know what he's trying to do, when he's trying to doing it, because, again, in the first, his first administration, he didn't have the, he didn't have the understanding of the power that he had at the time, but now he does and he has actually equipped himself. He's actually put himself in a position to execute all the things that he and Stephen Miller are saying and trying to bring it into about.
Speaker 2:This week we had a test run on cutting off benefits. Right, the very people that voted for him, you know, uh, uh, uh, uh. A senior white woman, uh, she was uh, complaining about he's going to cut off my food stamps. Well, you voted for him, and but the thing is, uh, you know, and the sad part to say is uh, you know, we've been conditioned to tolerate this nonsense, you know, of course, even over the last time, even the first uh access Hollywood tape came out grab him by whatever right. You know, from that day forward we've been being conditioned to tolerate lewdness, lasciviousness and just all this nonsense. We've been tolerated to do it. And of course now, and even talking with some Trumpers, you know, it's like oh, he don't mean what he say. Yeah, he does, he means it. And even if he don't know, the sad part is he don't even know what he means. He got people in his ear telling him hey, the conservative society, the federalist society, this is what the country should look like.
Speaker 2:Some Christian organizations I don't want to. I'm getting to the point where I don't want even want to call them Christians anymore, because they've yielded themselves to the power of the enemy, because they've put an idol on top of themselves. They put just like with the Israelites, you know. They say, hey, lord, we're going to trust you, we're going to follow you. And before Moses even came down with the law, they were breaking the first two. There'll be no other gods before me and don't make any idols, you know. And so and so they've created this gentleman as an idol because he does represent what their perceived Ideology of what the country should look like.
Speaker 2:It should be ran by white men point blank in the story story. Anything else is intolerable. And I hope white women grab this uh and and really take hold of this, because in this white man's world you're supposed to be in the kitchen, you're not supposed to be educated and outspoken and all these different kind of things. You're not supposed to be a ceo, you're not. So they want to roll back all these different things because again, with the rolling back of the civil rights act, with the voting rights act, all these things, there's clauses in there for white women and women as a whole and you have to really read the whole document to get how this thing affects you.
Speaker 2:And then, of course, going back to the original question should we listen to this? Well, mayangelo said when a person tells you who they are, believe, believe them. And the thing is, we have to take heed, because I'm not a Fox News person, but I have to tune in to see what's being said. I have to see because that way, you know, it's an old analogy, say how the atheist is always ready to debate the Christian, but the Christian is not always ready to debate the atheist. So by me tuning in over there, I at least have an idea of what's being said, a thought, some talking points, and I can actually bring some scripture to it.
Speaker 2:But with this gentleman here, everything he's trying to do in church folks or christian, these christian organizations, again I'm I'm trying not to talk down on the church because, uh, you know john bevere, he says, uh, the church is under attack and is under attack by the church, and so. But the thing is in, in this is where you know these folks, they're believing him because he fits there. He he's that, he is the puppet of their ideology. You know, these billionaires have bought him, they're buying, they bought him and they can, they get this. He, like you said, you called him, that s word right and he is, he, he, he, he is, uh, he is the puppet. A hand is up there because he don't, he don't know how to talk to these things, he don't understand these things.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, he is, he's a fantastic, he's out to the, he's out to the highest bidder. And you know, of course, what he wants he wants comfortable, he wants to be rich, he wants to be famous. That's that's what his whole, that's what we want his legacy to be. But you know, and what people have to realize, is we have to deprogram ourselves to some of this speech. We have to say this is no longer tolerable. These things, no, this is no longer tolerable. These words that are being said, the actions that are being done, the things that are attempted to be committed, they're no longer tolerable. When will? No, because, like, almost a third of the country voted for him and now they're seeing that they're going to come to the realization they actually got a test run this week, but they're going to come to the realization that they're no different than me. They're no different and that's the end. They get the test run. Like I say this older, she's a somewhat senior white woman Like, oh, they're going to cut off my benefits. Well, you voted for this. Well, you can't believe what he, he, he don't mean what he say. Yes, he does. Well, number of understand it. And this is the thing we have to understand that it's not him who's talking, it's the people behind him that's talking. He's the mouthpiece, because, again, he's just the mouthpiece behind this movement.
Speaker 2:And what is this movement? It has been here since the beginning of time White supremacy. It's about money. This whole thing is about money. And it's about power, about power and control. Money, power and control. With the money comes the power, with the power comes the control. And then you do what I say, as you do you're a second class citizen, you're three fifths a part of a person. You're, you're this, you're that, this is who you are, this is what you need to be and this is what we want you. And we're going to circumvent, we're going to bend the rules, we're going brown America. You know voting rights, you know civil rights, you know.
Speaker 2:And then, of course, they're cutting off every avenue of funding to the black, black and brown community, the black and brown business person, the black and brown nonprofit. Every avenue of revenue is being cut off as we speak. And why? Because this is where I this is my thoughts, I think towards you and where you need to be. And then, of course and this is where allies really have to stand up, because, dr King, I'm going to paraphrase one of his many famous quotes.
Speaker 2:He said what's going to be remembered is not the voice of the enemy, but the silence of my friends. Now, of course, there's friends of our friends that have they are Republican. That's just the way it is, hey, because again, you have your ideology, you believe what you believe. That's fine. And of course, again, I'm a firm believer that something should be controlled by government.
Speaker 2:And then there are some things that you know, we have a birthright to speaking of birthright, no, that threat of that being taken away is being.
Speaker 2:It's been thrown out there and it's just.
Speaker 2:We have to take him at his word, and but not only take him at his word, but we have to really bombard the gates of our, our state legislators, our senators, our congressmen and women and saying this is not what I voted for.
Speaker 2:You know, and again, like we said last week, you know, a lot of people are going to realize that instead of saying, hey, I was wrong about this, I was wrong, they'll let pride swallow them whole, they're going to let the price of insulin go back up to wherever it was and they're going to suffer in silence and die, versus saying I was wrong. So we as a people just have to simply say we got to speak up, we got to talk. And, of course, as we know that all of these kids, let's go back to pre-january 6th. Remember, uh, via george floyd, the black lives matter movement came about and then there was all these laws against even against peaceful protests, all these laws, but january 6th it didn't apply. You know, uh, proud, proud boys walking down the streets with guns in Michigan and all these other places Shouldn't apply.
Speaker 1:Right, I mean, that happened, what we're seeing where we had. You know, kyle, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:That they actually idolize that young man, and it's just so many things that are so blatant and so contradictory to what the US Constitution says we have and what we are supposed to be as a country. But again it just goes to show you that there's a fragment or a fraction of people in this country that they hate. They just flat out hate. There's no other word Hate White supremacy. It exists, it's real, it's living, it has taken on many forms and fashions over the decades, but it's still here, yeah.
Speaker 1:You know you said something a while back about admitting you're wrong and it made me think about I've talked about it many times. You know I've been married, for we're coming up on 39 years in August and one of the hardest things in that 39 years has been when we're in the heat of an argument and you know I'm sure that I'm right and she's usually is right, that you know it becomes a matter of I can't possibly admit I was wrong now because you know what happens the next?
Speaker 1:time we get into you know I'm going to she's going to be able to say you said you were wrong before. Why aren't you wrong now? You know I mean my imagination.
Speaker 2:And that's the legal, and that's why it's funny. You just said that the very thing, because, of course, the cut the. You know, our country is based on laws and so the law has a precedent and so if this precedent reigns and rules, this law or precedent may be in your favor. However, if you say you know what I was wrong about, how my, my stance or my position was on that thing, rather than say we were wrong like you, like, you're just using that analogy.
Speaker 1:You know, brother, when it comes to our wives, we're wrong almost all the time, and just I have to say too, those times when I have, you know, bit the bullet and said, um, and it took quite a while, I mean, I probably is something I've only been able to do, maybe in the past five years or so is to, you know, come back either in the midst of it and just kind of start breathing and thinking, okay, okay, you've gone far enough here, or, you know, get calmed down and then come back. But when I have been able to come back, when I have chosen that's the important when I have chosen to come back and say, you know what, sweetheart, I was wrong.
Speaker 2:How freeing is that?
Speaker 1:What you were saying and you were really right. And maybe it's just because the kind of woman my wife is, she doesn't lord that over me and you know, and become like high and mighty about. Well, I knew I was right all along. You know there's none of that, but what it has done is strengthen our relationship. It's made me slowly because I'm a man slowly realize that fessing up and admitting that I'm wrong really isn't that painful. It is humbling. How freeing is it? Well, very much so, because all of a sudden you're free to exist. The fact that I'm not always right, I can't always be right. I need to know more. And that's probably where our media, all kinds of things, get it wrong is we need to know more Instead of just immediately saying what is it?
Speaker 1:Mark Twain's famous saying right, you know, believe nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see. You know. And that becomes more and more of an issue with the media, because they can tell you. You can show who, what, where, how and when. You can show those things. They're objectively. This is what happened, this is where it happened, this is how. These are the things that led up to it happening, blah, blah, blah. But the minute you start getting into why it happened, you better really do some research, because you need to understand both the parties that were involved and what they were thinking, what was going on, why they did what they did. And then you need to understand your own. Why are you seeing it the way that you see it? Because we have biases. You know, we'll look at two people fighting and think that you know, well, he's obviously right, she's wrong, you know no. And a woman will look and go what? She's obviously right and he's wrong. Well, what's our bias in? That? That's getting in the way of us really seeing what's going on and it it's so telling to me that we are as a country, you know, saying that it's okay to do fellatio with a microphone, it's okay to talk about Arnold Palmer's schlong, it's okay.
Speaker 1:Those things which would have, you know, 20 years ago, it would have ended his career. You know, it would have ended his career to make fun of a disabled reporter by doing that. You know, and getting it on tape that he did that, because he can't come back and say I didn't do this, he did it. That would have ended his political career, but we're okay with it because that's just the way he is. Well, I will. I will die for your right to have freedom of speech and to say what you say.
Speaker 1:But I also have a responsibility to myself and to the people that I you know, know that, know me and what I want to be known for to say, yeah, I don't want to use the F-bomb anymore. You know, I appreciate that you use the F-bomb and I'm not going to say that's, you know, potty mouth, I won't be around potty mouth. You know that's baloney too, but you can make the choice that. You know, I really don't want to be around that. So I mean my son has to learn that with his mom, right, I mean, he's F-bombing things because that's, you know, he's a 20-something and they F-bomb you know that F and this, that he didn't want a stupid F-head, you know. And so you sit back and think, yeah, you know, I'm okay with it. I'm okay with it, I'm a theater person, what the heck? You know, I've seen worse than that.
Speaker 1:But his mom does not. It makes her very uncomfortable. She doesn't like it. So he's learned in front of mom. I'm not going to use that word, that's respectful. And that's where I think we really have missed the boat with our president. He is not respecting any norms. He isn't. You know, the laws don't apply to him because he's the president and now he can do anything in his office that would normally be illegal and as long as it's within the office of his, the scope of his powers, he can do it and not be prosecuted for it. I mean, he's laid in some really integral pieces to being lawless and you know he's gonna take Greenland whether he wants, you know's gonna take greenland whether.
Speaker 2:Whether he wants, you know people want to let him or not and this, and the supreme court has, uh, given him this pass to do so, as long as he says this is within the scope of his power. So he can claim any and everything is within the scope of his powers, so he's do all these, uh, executive orders are within the scope of his powers. But again, uh, we have to give god praise that there are some people out here fighting. But I want to go back to the point you were making. You made a great point.
Speaker 2:You know, yes, what he, the way he expresses himself and how he does things is unacceptable. But again, we've been programmed to do so, but not to know, like now, when we talk about people expressing themselves and being able to express themselves freely, we have to really take a step back and say, okay, this is their upbringing, this is where they came from, this is where they are now. Now, understand, you know, it's like everyone can only communicate on the level that they know. Right, and so, and the thing with that is is, simply, we can disagree with a person's methodology on a message, but sometimes you just can't disagree with the message. You can say I didn't like how you said it, but I 100 percent agree with what you said and but with this gentleman it's like I don't agree with what you're saying, I don't agree with how you say it, I don't agree with even the thought process.
Speaker 2:And that's where you know, and that's where that fine line you know. It's like you know, like saying, like you know, talking about we are, like talking about how we can have to come to the space of letting pride go and admitting when we're wrong. And that applies on both sides admitting that we're wrong about our stance on a matter, but also our perception or our bias in a matter. Right, like what you're saying. It's like you know a person can say a thing a certain way doesn't make it wrong, it's just. I may disagree with the methodology in which you communicate your message, but the message is on point. And when we can actually walk that fine line and give people grace along those lines, we'll start to move the needle in this kingdom. Like tomorrow, man, I'm starting a sermon series called Love Will Win, man, and of course I'm talking about in a day, in a space, in a time where you know these things.
Speaker 2:Of course, everything that we're seeing now, it has been done already. You know, of course, with going back to 1860, something right. You know, when slavery was abolished and all those different things there. You know the hatred, that, oh, how dare you give these people the right and the access to do this and that and the other? And, of course, what happened, you know, and it's like, every time there's some form of black advancement or brown advancement, these people, they rise up and say, okay, that's enough of this. You know, we want you to be back in your place. And here we are again 2025.
Speaker 1:Yeah, do some research on restoration. Right After the great Civil War, right, we started making progress. There were actually elected officials that were black men, that were in the Senate, in the House of Representatives, that were becoming mayors of their towns and whatnot, and that went just so far. And then Jim Crow laws started taking effect and, you know, incarceration started really poaching up. So we had to find a different way to enslave those same people that had been slaves. And you know and it noticed too that it wasn't just black people, it was white people too.
Speaker 1:You know, some of the most integrated communities are prisons, you know, when it comes down to it, because it's people that don't have the ability to fight, they haven't had the ability to have education, they haven't had the opportunities to work towards having better jobs. So what do they have? They have crime as a way to get by. You know, I get it, but we can't talk about that because we can never get that far in the discussion. It's just a never-ending vortex of crap.
Speaker 1:And so I keep coming back to the question just how much attention do we pay to it? Because, I totally agree, we need to be aware of what's going on. But you know, I wear Star Trek stuff all the time and one of the best characters on Star Trek is Spock, because Spock will sit there and watch people losing their shit I mean just emotionally, you know, going out of control and Spock will sit back there and watch it all and just go fascinating. So I got to get to that place because I know exactly what you're saying and my thing is I just start getting so like bound up.
Speaker 2:And we all do we all do.
Speaker 1:I got to be fascinated by it. You know I have to figure out a way to keep my mind in that fascinating, interesting and be able to see what's really going on, because I believe one of the things Trump does best is distract people from what's really going on. You know, there is this issue of he says these outlandish things so that something right, exactly, it's the magician trick, right.
Speaker 1:So? And we need to have that mindset that says fascinating, so that something right, exactly, it's the magician trick, right so. And we need to have that mindset that says fascinating, so that we can dig in and say, ah, you know, it's interesting. When he said that outlandish thing, he also passed this and this and this, or he also, all the sudden, you know, mark Zuckerberg took back his you know, dei kinds of things he had been doing with his. He took back the censorship that he was doing on Facebook. Isn't that interesting? And the media's responsibility is to keep track of that and keep bringing it out. But it's also interesting that one of the things he has attacked from the get-go is the media, anyone that comes out with anything that exposes something he doesn't want to see or recognize or admit or have to say I was wrong. He's attacking those people as fake news. And so you get, you know, CBS.
Speaker 1:Now, in 60 minutes, cbs is being sued because they did, you know, during the election, a show with, you know, kamala Harris being able to talk with the interview. He had been offered the opportunity to do the same thing, but he didn't do it because he was waiting for an apology from what Leslie Stahl or I forget her, but anyways, one of the primary people who had insulted him. He wanted an apology from her first, before he would, you know, tape a show with them and now he's suing them because they gave them, you know, they gave her, you know preferential treatment. Well, you know, it's like saying I'm suing you because you didn't shovel the walk when you came to shovel the walk and I didn't let you shovel the walk because I didn't like the way you asked me, you know, but you had every opportunity to get your walk shoveled. Why is it now my fault? Why are you giving me a hard time? Because I didn't shovel it, you told me not to.
Speaker 2:It's a smoke screen, all it is is a smoke. You're saying moving hands. You know, watch this car, watch, I'm gonna show you your. Because he it's all about, no, pretending to be to his base, you know, of course it's like he'll give the illusion that I'm sticking up, I'm fighting for you and this and that and the other, but it's like you know what you're actually scared to go on there because you know that they were going to ask you some tough questions that you weren't. One, we're not going to be able to answer and two, a troop was going to be exposed. So it's like I'll give you all of this to say, oh, this is why I didn't do it, and a lot of people, anyone with uh, you know uh will just simply say that that's, that's, that's nonsense. You know, because, again, especially in a presidential uh election, you're going to take every opportunity to get your point of view out there, or even to correct some misinterpretations, or whatever the case may be. You're going to want to take every opportunity to get out what you need to get out. And you know, and of course he didn't want to do that and the thing is, but again, like you were just saying, like the smoking watch, you know, we have, like you, made a good point. It's like when we see a whole bunch of noise being made about something, we got to look at what else is, what's happening behind the hand, what's happening behind the back? You know what's happening. You know because, like you know, we're talking about DEI, we're talking about the cutting of benefits, we're talking about all these things, but birthright citizenship kind of slid on in there, citizenship and what it means. Because again, if he says, oh, I want to end birthright citizenship, a lot of people would right away say, oh, um, they're going to take it to this. Uh, oh, uh, lat latino americans that were born in this country, their uh, birthrights will be, uh, revoked, but not knowing that if that is passed, that precedent goes how much further back. And then a lot of people don't even realize if you got a German dad and a Polish mom, your birthright can be taken away from you too.
Speaker 2:And again, it's like it's this whole thing, man, it just. I've just in my mind, I've had to simplify this thing down to it's the same thing as what it's always been. It's a white supremacist type of setting. It's about money. You know, it's about money. I don't want you to get ahead, I don't want you to have anything and I want all the money for myself, because the money gives me power, power to make decisions, power to gerrymand and create laws and do all these things against you. And then the power gives me control, like right now.
Speaker 2:We have a presidency, a Senate and a House under one form of control, and glory be to God that I believe that he is causing confusion in the camp, that they are fighting against each other. That's our saving grace. How many times have we seen them do that in the Bible? But it's just, you know, glory to God. But it's like all of these different things, this is where we are and we have to see that this is where we are. And, of course, until people really grasp and see that hey, uh, even different sectors of the country, different groups, every, everyone that you're going to be affected by this thing one way or another, like, yes, I'm not 100, but I was uh looking and they're saying like the 25 tariffs are going to start on canada and mexico, we are are North America and how, you are two closest people, you're going to attack them and then give China a 10% tariff and again, people not understanding what a tariff is and how it affects the country.
Speaker 1:Right, do some research. Folks you know, or you know, talk to your friends that are farmers, talk to your, your, your friends that you know like to drink a lot of beer, um, the vast majority of the beer that we drink, except, you know, obviously, micro breweries in the lake, but you know budweiser, anheuser-busch, you know all the products that they put out there. Um, their primary factories are in mexico, you know. So look it up, look where you know things are, are bottled in the US but made in Mexico or whatever, because the labor is less expensive, so they can keep the price of beer down, so that they sell more.
Speaker 1:Canada, right, canada, not only do we buy quite a bit, but we also sell a lot to them. So, our farming communities, they took a huge hit the last time we did any significant hit, or, you know, trying to settle down the amount of trade, because they were buying a lot of the whey product that's a byproduct of milk, so that it, you know, can be made into cheese and other products. Well, they ended up not buying nearly as much.
Speaker 2:What did China tell American farmers to do? Y'all eat that soy before we buy it.
Speaker 1:Right, exactly you can talk about things like, yeah, we want more manufacturing jobs back in the US. But folks understand, I'm not against labor getting paid. They should absolutely be paid better and treated better than we have treated labor in the past. But that treatment of labor has been a result of profiting, you know profit to shareholders, profit to the companies, and we, frankly, got too expensive as American labor got too expensive, so they moved things offshore so that they could make more profit and show more money to the bottom line for their shareholders. That's it. So now, if we are successful in bringing people back, think it through.
Speaker 1:What's going to have to happen to the cost of everything that we're buying, because we're paying more for the bottom layer of things, or we're going to, you know, pay more for reconstructing factories, or we're going to pay more because they have to put more robotics into it so that it makes more money for you know, or it makes equal amounts of money, whatever it just there are trickle-down effects in all this that we don't get to talk about, and we don't talk about because we're too busy grabbing the mackerel that's been, you know, dangled in front of us instead of thinking well, wait a minute, what? What's in that mackerel. Anyways, it looks kind of green. I don't know. I don't know that that came from good water. No, we're just sucking the mackerel down, going love that mackerel. So it's just funny, come on.
Speaker 2:And that's where, again, we have to have a full understanding of everything and again, we were talking about this last season, but it's just having a full understanding of every branch of government, the executive, judicial, legislative branch understanding what they do and what they do and what their purposes are, just like what you just made a great point about labor and its cost. You know, and of course it took me some years to really figure this out. You know, because I just and and honestly my ignorance and my obliviousness, like when I was working at oscar meyer back in 1994, just a few years out of high school, you know, making great money and of course we in madison, wisconsin, we're making 12, 13 bucks an hour, right, but what oscar meyer started to do? They started to ship out all the production lines to fullerton, california, where they were able to pay people half of what they were paying us. And it was just and we didn't get it. We, not, a lot of us didn't get it.
Speaker 2:And, of course, just a young person like myself just like, okay, I'm making all this money at this young age, this is great, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But how it affected other people, like the people that were being there for 20, 30 years. They had these really nice cushy jobs in the Lunchable section. You know where. You just put the cracker in the hole and you know. But then it's like, ok, this person is in their 60s, but now I'm going to put you back on this line and their seniority is going to bump me out, right, right, and it's like all these trickle-down things and you hit it on the head. We have to really understand and know there's always a cause and effect, yeah, and we have to understand the reason behind the cause and then the long-term effect of that cause.
Speaker 1:All right, we're going to try to stick to our agenda here. Right, we had a time thing. Closing thoughts, Antoine. Closing thoughts.
Speaker 2:Well, no, it's just a simply put we have to believe, we have to we it's like we, much as we don't want to give this person this attention we have to listen, we have to have, we have. Lord, give us eyes to see and ears to hear and the ability to discern, because you know, and. But not only give us the ability to discern, but give us a biblical action on what steps to take to fight these things. Because, again, you know, even if we try to take the fight to them, there's laws have been created to stop our fight. So it's like we have to listen to what's being said. There's no, I'm hanging out with a younger group because I want to see their forms of organization now, because, again, it's like we're talking about organizing and getting this word out and getting people to understand they are the future of this country and what needs to go and how it needs to go. So it's like me and my 50 something mind. It's like okay, I need a fresh way of thinking, I need a better way of seeing this thing. Yes, I have a premise of what's wrong, but how do we attack it? How do we move the needle?
Speaker 2:But in, of course, in my space and where I am, and I'm just so grateful for the love that has been given to me through my Lord and Savior, jesus Christ, that I can't help but love how he loved me. And of course, just because I love and forgive a person don't mean I condone their sin, it's just simply put. I can't allow it to change how I feel, I can't allow these things to change my heart's posture. So it just, yes, it takes me into a deeper space of prayer. I mean, it's just, I can disagree with you, but I can't let my disagreement turn into hate, because then all I'm doing is mimicking the poor behavior that has been exhibited towards me.
Speaker 2:So if we we again going back to what we said last week if we can get people of God, let's start in the church first. If we can get these Mike Johnson's and all these people that are sitting in Congress saying I'm a Christian, I'm a Christian Louisiana, tennessee, kentucky If these Christians start to live by biblical principle and less by personal preference, watch the needle move. So that's my final thought on it. You know, just, we it, just I can't allow my heart to be turned, regardless of what is said, done or thought. And but at the same time, we can't condone the behavior. We have to speak up and out against it in a positive form.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the more you've been talking, the more I've been thinking about both my comment about Spock and being able to be less emotionally charged and more intellectually engaged. You know to be fascinated by it, Because, you know, Spock never says he doesn't have emotions, he just says you know, through logic, they've learned how to, you know, utilize the emotions and channel them in more effective, constructive ways. So, and I really want to learn and I hope we all can learn that it's not about the emotional angst and anger that it causes in us. It needs to be about the compassion for the people that wanted him as the president. You know what was it? What did he ignite in them? What did he appear? Because, you know, Lucifer appears as an angel of light. He appeared to them to be something that they're longing for, that we long for. He appeared to be a savior to many of them for restoring America, making America great again, right, Restoring America's greatness, and that's something that, if patriotic people want, right, that's a, that's a passionate thing. People die for that Right, and somehow, though, we lost the ability to think it through and say what's the best way to get there, the best way to become great, and I see it more and more like well, we need to be the light on the hill. We need to be the people that are loving those elderly people in our neighborhoods that live next door, that are in nursing homes. You know that if you feel called, there isn't a nursing home. I don't think in the entire United States or even in the world that wouldn't welcome having you come on a weekly or monthly basis to just talk or play music. You know, shame on me. I play guitar and for years I thought, you know, I should just go over once a month or whatever, and just play some hymns on the guitar, you know, and lead people in song and just be someone that shows I care, Because that's where I think we lost the boat.
Speaker 1:You know, those of us that are, you know I put it on educated folks A lot of us have been so busy being smart about things we forgot to be kind, we forgot to be compassionate, we forgot to be engaged in life, so that the people that didn't get educated have felt like we were saying all along you're dumb, you don't understand this, and that's on us the anger that those folks were feeling. We played a part in that by not being respectful. I mean, I work with guys that never went beyond high school and I respect, though, what they do. They've worked hard all their lives. They've been very successful in a lot of things. That should command my respect.
Speaker 1:I can't be walking around going. Yeah, I'm one of two people here at this company that have a master's degree. Master's degree that's the kind of you know. I'm obviously in caricaturing it, but that's how it's seen. So let's get back, strip all the way that nonsense and let's be watching, listening to what he's saying and saying. Okay, fascinating. Who is this directed at and how can I get them? Because we're not going to win again unless we figure out a way to reach that spectrum of people that don't think we care, that don't think that the message of compassion and DEI and equal rights, and you know, equal opportunities that those really are not just for black people, those are for everybody. Because, whether or not you believe, you know in these things that are horrible, that happen, whether you, however, you want to make it, can't we just admit that it was horrible, that it happened? You know people white folks get all upset that well I never had a slave.
Speaker 1:I never did any of that, and you know. You know what I didn't either. But the reality is, can't we just feel bad about this happening, that people did this to other people? Why does it have to be about? Well, I don't like feeling guilty because I'm white, not guilty, but you're white. You're guilty because you're white. You're guilty because you're a person that sits back and lets this crap happen. That's why you're guilty. That's what you should feel bad about.
Speaker 2:Period and let's not mistake guilt for just having a feeling about it. Of course, a lot of times that's it. Don't mistake guilt for something else. It's just like if the Lord stirs something up in your spirit, they don't mean I need to feel guilty about it, just say, ok, for whatever reason, this thing is on my heart to make some have a voice about it or a movement about it, and let that happen. It ain't necessarily because exposing things ain't about trying to guilt other people. You know, of course I'll say that. I've said this in numerous other platforms. It's just like you know, it's almost like the country is tired of hearing the black man cry and it's like, ok, I've heard that already, now I get it, I get it, I get it. Now it's like no, you don't get it because here it is again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's a wonderful moment in I think it's in Avengers 1, where they first are coming together. In Captain America Beautiful scene, there's an older guy, loki, has come and he's causing all this chaos and getting people, this large group of people, to kneel before him and he's saying you know your new lord, blah, blah, blah, whatever. You know his pompous nonsense. And one of the elderly guys in the crowd stands up and he says no, I'm not going to kneel before you. There have always been men like you that want others to kneel. And I'm not going to kneel.
Speaker 1:And Loki's like see people, let this elderly gentleman be an example to you of what happens. And just as he's about to shoot, blast this guy into smithereens. Captain America jumps in with his shield, blocks the blast that's coming off and saves this guy. And it's like such a moment, yeah, and it's like you know what? There's something very figurative about that. Let's be Captain America, let's be Captain America that jumps in the middle of this stuff that's going on, where people are being attacked, people of color are being attacked right now Shadrach, meshach and Abednego.
Speaker 2:You almost described that scene.
Speaker 1:Let's do it. Let's just do that. Okay, let's set our mind on that and not on the you know, just depravity of the minds that are guiding the picture right now, Because if we don't, we're going to end up just seeing the picture they wanted to see all the time and it's going to be against the law to show any other picture, and all of our freedoms that we thought we were fighting for are just going to be gone. And that's just a reality of how fascism works. And you know, I don't know. I pray, pray, God, open our eyes, you know, let us see what's going on around us and let us be compassionate enough to understand how we got there and convicted enough to get out Right, To get out of this. Wake up. I want to be awake and be aware and do something to help the people in the nursing home. That's so much more rewarding than what we're doing right now, oh gosh.
Speaker 2:We just have to believe that love will win.
Speaker 1:Indeed, there you go, you're starting a series on it. I heard that this guy, antoine Holliman Sr, was going to be doing a series on that? Did you hear that? I heard that Love will win. Well, I'm Raul LaBrescia. What's your name? Again, I keep forgetting.
Speaker 2:Antoine Holliman Sr. Oh yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1:Thank you for reminding me. I'm 64 years old, I forget so much. I'm like where am I all the time lately? But together we are a frame of reference, coming together, and we hope this conversation at least I do hope gives you something to think about, something to talk about. We hope you'll tell your friends to listen and to say what these guys got to say. And if you don't agree with us, that's fine. Don't agree with us, but you know, figure out why you think what you think and you know why we're wrong, and maybe maybe think about how we might be right, because that's important to consider with anyone you argue with, including my wife. So right, dude, see you next week, same time, same bat channel.
Speaker 2:All right, man All right Take care. Have a great week here. I'll try to give a call this week, man, I guess, depending on what happened in the news, right? Yeah, I'm going to snooze through the news.
Speaker 1:Thank you very much All right man.
