Frame of Reference - Coming Together
"Frame of Reference - Profiles in Leadership" and "Frame of Reference - Coming together" are conversational style shows with local, national, and global experts about issues that affect all of us in some way. I’m, at heart, a “theatre person”. I was drawn to theatre in Junior High School and studied it long enough to get a Master of Fine Arts in Stage Direction. It’s the one thing that I’m REALLY passionate about it because as Shakespeare noted, “all the world’s a stage and all the men and women merely players”. Think about the universality of that line for just a moment. Think about the types of “theatre” that play out around us every day in today’s world. The dramatic, the comedic, the absurd, the existential, the gorilla theatre (it’s a thing, look it up) that is pumped into our Smart Phones, TV’s, Radios, and PC’s every minute of every day.
Think about the tremendous forces that “play” upon us - trying to first discover, then channel, feed, nurture, and finally harvest our will power and biases in order to move forward the agendas of leaders we will likely never meet. Think of all these forces (behind the scenes of course) and how they use the basic tools of theatre to work their “magic” on the course of humanity. Emotionally charged content matched to carefully measured and controlled presentations.
With that in mind (and to hopefully counter the more insidious agendas), I bring you the Frame of Reference "Family" of podcasts, where the voices of our local and global leadership can share their passion for why and how they are leaders in their community and in many cases, the world. Real players with real roles in a world of real problems. No special effects, no hidden agenda, just the facts and anecdotes that make a leader.
And at the risk of sounding trite, I sincerely thank my wife Ann and my two children Elisabeth and Josiah for continually teaching me what leadership SHOULD look like.
Frame of Reference - Coming Together
The DEI Boogeyman: Myths, Facts, and Why It Matters - Part 1
The weaponization of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion has become one of the most troubling developments in our current cultural and political landscape. We dive deep into how DEI—a framework designed to create more representative and equitable institutions—has been deliberately transformed into a divisive political issue through coordinated misinformation campaigns.
Our conversation reveals how conservative voices have successfully reframed DEI initiatives as threats to "traditional values" and "merit-based systems," positioning efforts to increase diversity as unfair advantages given to unqualified individuals. This framing intentionally disregards the historical context of exclusion that made these initiatives necessary in the first place.
More alarmingly, we examine how DEI has become a convenient scapegoat for various societal failures completely unrelated to diversity initiatives—from plane crashes to wildfires, economic downturns to military failures. This pattern represents a calculated attempt to redirect public outrage away from actual systemic issues toward marginalized communities simply seeking equal opportunity.
The psychological impact on professionals from underrepresented backgrounds cannot be understated. Many face the constant burden of defending their legitimacy and worth against assumptions that their achievements result from preferential treatment rather than merit—a burden their white counterparts simply don't carry.
What's truly at stake is the future of American democracy itself. By systematically dismantling DEI initiatives, we're undermining the foundational American ideal that our institutions should represent all citizens, not just those who have historically held power. Join us as we challenge the weaponization of DEI and explore how we can work together to create truly equitable opportunities for everyone.
Share your thoughts with us at www.forsauk.com and join the conversation with comments that foster meaningful discussion about these critical issues.
Thanks for listening. Please check out our website at www.forsauk.com to hear great conversations on topics that need to be talked about. In these times of intense polarization we all need to find time to expand our Frame of Reference.
let's have it well, hello, hello, hello, hello, hello. I'm trying to start. I hope you don't mind, antoine, I'm trying to start on a little bit of a high note, emotionally, because this topic today, boy, the more I think about it, the more I mean I can't imagine. Okay, number one white person cannot completely fathom what our topic today is doing to our brothers and sisters and women in general, because this affects all kinds of folks. The topic is DEI, okay, which is diversity, equity, inclusion.
Speaker 1:Okay, look up those words, not bad words, right, and they got put together for a good reason and that ended up becoming a weaponized acronym. If you remember, it's been referred to as DIE instead of DEI. We will die by DEI. So some pundit somewhere thought they were super duper witty and came up with that. And unfortunately, super duper witty things like that have a tendency to get glommed on to by a majority of people that don't even understand what they're talking about. In fact, I know there was an interesting interview on the street with folks at a convention and they were asked point-blank do you know what DEI stands for? And 80%, if not more, yeah, no, almost 100% of the people at least that were interviewed. You don't see the people that got it on track. So I know it wasn't a pure sample pool, all that good stuff.
Speaker 1:But so many of those people had no clue what DEI even was, and if they did know some of the words, they really didn't understand what it meant. And the fact that that is the case was evidenced to me just last night. We're doing this at the end of March, and just last night my daughter came in to talk to me oh and, by the way, I'm Raul LaBrush and you are, sir. That's one home to see you. Oh yeah, I remember you. Now. We've done a couple of recordings together, haven't we? Man, I'm kind of remembering something once in a while, yeah, something.
Speaker 1:Something right. We do this thing called coming together. Okay, it's a frame of reference, if you want to hold frame of reference, coming together, okay. So hence this discussion today. But my daughter sorry came in to me and we were both kind of upset because I had a storage shed broken into, lost a bunch of my Star Trek stuff. Okay, star Trek stuff, my goodness, when you lose your Star Trek stuff as a Trekkie, that's painful, all right, but not nearly as painful as what we're talking about today. She came in Both of us are upset because this just happened and she came in a little bit into the program last night of the World Championships for the USA team in skating my wife and daughter are really into skating and she talked about how there was this piece that was devoted to the folks that were in the accident.
Speaker 1:Where, what was it? 67 people, I think somewhere in that neighborhood, or 60 passengers, four crew members, on an airplane's flight 5342 from Wichita. It collided with an Army Black Hawk helicopter with three soldiers on board. They were practicing emergency evacuation routes that would be used to ferry out key government officials in an emergency key government officials, right. So they're doing something to practice for situations that would save our world leaders if there were an emergency of some sort with this team of people.
Speaker 1:And the thing that was so poignant about it was the team of people that were killed in the crash, that were on the United Airlines flight. They were like young skaters, like up and coming kids that were being trained in being the next generation, if you will, of skaters that were going to be on teams, moms and dads of skating families and coaches. So you know folks that were. It was a significant part of the Wisconsin or not Wisconsin, the US team figure skating team. Now, you might not care about skating I get that right. What I care about, because I'm not a huge skating fan either, I watch some of them go.
Speaker 1:Oh my god how do, they do that you know kind of thing, but I'm not like gotta see it tonight kind of person. Star Trek yes, that no. But they turned it into a weaponization thing right away. So, if you remember, there's very little grievances, condolences to the family A few, I'll give that there were a few, but what really became the capital and project of the whole deal was to use it as a weapon against folks that are for and have supported DEI, as a weapon against folks that are for and have supported DEI, assuming without any information really in terms of what the congressional investigation found, without any information about what really was at the root cause of this. Was it just human error? It turns out it was preventable. But to pin it on DEI, to say because we've been bringing in people into air traffic control roles, military roles, pilot roles in general that have been given those jobs because of DEI provisions and interestingly enough, one of the few people that might have had some benefit from that was the pilot of the Black Hawk helicopter, OK, well, it turns out that that was a woman. Okay, so that ought to be some cause of alarm for women in general, that you know one of the few things that could find that might have something to do with the error, but even that, you know not, they don't, they don't really have that definitive answer either.
Speaker 1:So here is, therein lies the rub, and we'll be discussing today and it's going to have to be more than just today, I think, because there's so much in this that gets me riled up and I know it gets my brother Antoine riled up is this whole process right of finding ways to make the ideas of diversity, equity and inclusion, which are a way to make our democracy, our representation, our democratic republic, truly, truly a democracy and truly representative, which is what it's supposed to be? We're not just a democracy, we are a democratic republic, which means we have people, the people that elect representatives, to then go into Congress, go into Senate, become the president and represent them. Okay, so it's not necessarily just the people, but we have a right. We have a right and the people that we elect have a responsibility to fulfill their role as representatives of the entire constituency that they represent. So when you talk about diversity, equity and inclusion, you have to be talking about programs that are trying. Trying, which is, if you just people get outside of bubbles.
Speaker 1:Okay, encourage friends of yours that are in bubbles that don't really understand the significance and importance and sanctity I'll say it sanctity of treating and finding ways for all creatures of God Almighty to be treated with equity, inclusion and to have that sense of we are all one family of human beings, one race of human beings and as such, we all ought to have the same opportunities in this land of opportunity. We ought to, because that's what America's built on. Give me your tired. We ought to, because that's what America's built on. Give me your tired, your poor, your wretched refuse, yearning to be free.
Speaker 1:That's not our Statue of Liberty, for God's sakes. That's our Italian ancestors, our Jewish ancestors, our Irish ancestors, our English ancestors. White people, you want to be on the white bandwagon. They all got in here under the same deal. But now, today, if you're a person of color, if you're a woman, and you have been benefiting from something, some laws, some regulations, some legislation that was attempting to correct some of that, it's being systematically destroyed, being systematically dismantled. And that's my treatise, man, that's my thing. Sorry, I'm just going on and on because this gets my wood fired up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, you know, of course, when we talk about the weaponization of DEI, man, it's to stir up misinformation and racial fear, is to scapegoat, it is to rob people of color, of opportunities, is to divide the country. You know, man, I just say this. Since then, you know, white supremacist, white ring conservatives, they have and are continually portraying DEI initiatives as some kind of radical or dangerous ideology, instead of, you know, they intentionally distort the purpose of DEI. You know they, instead of acknowledging it as the framework to correct historical and systematic injustice, they frame it as this threat to traditional values or the merits-based system. And you know they continuously mischaracterize DEI to ignite fear, especially among, like I say, white people. You know they try to tell them hey, you're losing power, you're being replaced. And you know, and they keep echoing this thing since being, even until now. But now you know that no same language is now being cloaked in political language like reverse racism, woke culture or a critical race theory.
Speaker 2:You know, by doing this, you know these groups, they weaponize DEI as a cultural scapegoat, man. They scapegoat dei for everything. They redirect the blame of societal issues, you know, away from, you know, the systemic issues and put them on marginalized communities seeking equality. You know, of course, that old adage is like you know, hey, when you call out a issue, you become the problem, and that's, uh, that, and that's an age-old way of doing things. And you know, when talking about, you know, this information, man, this misinformation, it's powerful because it operates under the illusion of fairness.
Speaker 2:Because if you listen to, like, jd Vance, man, he is kind of scary to me because, man, he can make a bad thing sound really good and I'd be like I hope people get that, you know, in the courses, like just going off there. But when conservatives, you know, claim that DEI promotes hiring based on identity instead of merit, they ignore the historic and ongoing exclusion of people of color from leadership, education, economic opportunities. It creates this false equivalence between efforts to diversify institutions and discrimination against white people. A confusing thing. They try to confuse it, man. That's all it's about that word salad, that word play, that confusion. And of course, if a lot of people aren't aware of what's really going on, man, they'll easily get swept up in a bunch of misinformation.
Speaker 2:Right, and you know, like in here recent years, man, these conservatives, and now you got these white, these right wing conservatives, these social media influencers. They've gone so far as to blame DEI on, you know, catastrophic events, like you were just talking about the plane crash that you know. You know that killed those athletes, those young athletes and their families. But they also remember, they blamed it on the California, they blamed DEI on the California wildfires on DEI. You know, even you know military or economic downturns, they will blame it on DEI. You know, and of course this is all a part of their broader narrative to say, when things go wrong, instead of addressing the real systemic failure, like deregulation, underfunding of public services, environmental neglect, dei, it becomes the boogeyman. You know these claims, you know, and they're not supported by evidence. But they are effective in redirecting public outrage towards marginalized groups. So it's easy to blame DEI. For instance, you know they were implying that someone was hired or promoted not because they were qualified, but because they were a black, they were a woman, they were indigenous or of another minority. You know this just continuously reinforces racial stereotypes, that if a white man is not in charge of it or if it kind of like there, because they are actually going along the ideology, if there is no way a person of color, male or female, is smarter or more qualified than a white male, that is what it is.
Speaker 2:And again, this is the attack on DEI. And let's just be clear, you know DEI, it calls things out. Has it really done anything? I'll say it has made some progress. It was piggybacking again the Voting Rights Act, the Civil Rights Act. This is another stage or another step or level in that fight. But now we know that the steps have been torn down. So now they're tearing down this level or layer of calling out things or this.
Speaker 2:You know they're trying to crush this as well, you know, and of course, anything that's because what we're seeing right now, anything that is going to advance people of color or give them a leg up, they're taking away the funding to do it. You know, like in black communities man, you know like there was a nonprofit group they were giving business grants to black females and one of those conservative lawyers, he basically sits on the steps of the Supreme Court and he got that cast down, calling it reverse racism. And again it's like this is the history of the country Court and he got that cast down, calling it reverse racism. And again it's like this is the history of the country right here.
Speaker 2:You know, when minorities start to advance or move ahead, move the needle, start to correct the narratives, some white men start to act out, some white men start to act out. It's just you know the way it is and because again I'll speak just for myself, and maybe a lot of black men that speak, you know, think just like me. I just want to be left alone. I want to love people. I want to, you know, make a way for me and my family. I want to help others and lift others up. But when you do that, when there start to be major advancements, that's when things like what we're seeing on the news start to flare up, and so and this is why DEI is important it builds a more and just inclusive future man. So that's what they want to take away.
Speaker 1:So let's think about this too. For for a second, you know, I've I've interviewed for jobs that I haven't gotten. I've written interviewed for jobs that I have gotten. Okay, and I can tell you categorically, when I have not gotten those jobs, there's part of me that says, well, I just, you know, I wasn't as qualified as other people. I didn't have, you know, the skillset that they were looking for. Just you know, it wasn't the right time for me. You know, even God, you know, just didn't see that as a place I need to go to right now.
Speaker 1:My faith gets engaged in the intellectual. You know the thinking that goes on, and then it turns to stinking thinking sometimes, and the stinking thinking is things like I bet you, they got a young guy, I'm older, they probably figured I'm not young enough to do this, or I have thought, I'll fully admit, I wonder if they, you know, had a woman in the thing. I mean, those thoughts go through my head. Shame on me, but they do, and I'm not going to sit here and try to have somebody say, well, you're so holier than thou. I am not Okay, I'm a human being and I'm just, as you know, acculturated by those kinds of thoughts, by even thoughts of you know, I wonder if a black person or a Latinx got that part, that role, because they were trying to, you know, build or push the needle the other way. I can usually rationalize that back to well, you know, I hope they get an opportunity and they really run with it. You know usually. But let's face it, guys, white guys out there, if you can tell me that you have not ever experienced a white friend of yours saying, yeah, I didn't get the job, I probably hired some black guy. Okay, think about it for a second. You ever experienced that, ever had that thought yourself? Okay, now, if you're going to be honest about that you've heard it I can't believe you haven't, or you've thought it, having a hard time believing that.
Speaker 1:That isn't true either with most white people, because we grow up in a racial soup. We grow up all of us surrounded by white folk. Birds of a feather flock together and we think that we're the cats meow and we don't have enough experience with black folks or Latinx folks to know, man, there's some really damn smart, bright, cool people. They deserve jobs as much as I do. They just want to work, they just want to be treated with respect, they just want to have opportunities to show what they can do. Thankfully, lord, thank you for having enough experiences to know that that is absolutely true. There is no difference between people based on color, religion. They're smart, bright, loving, caring, wonderful people across the human race, country, nationalism, nothing. We are all in this battle, together as human beings, trying to survive. So don't give me this crap about you know. Oh, white guys don't have a chance anymore because you're going to get these black people, or these Hispanic people have to. Or women, women, get a job over a white guy.
Speaker 1:Baloney, face it, you didn't get the job 90% of the time because you weren't the best candidate. You didn't get the opportunity, plain and simple, because you didn't fight for it. You didn't get the education, you didn't get the skill set. You didn't work hard enough to get the job 90% of the education. It didn't get the skill set. It didn't work hard enough to get the job 90% of the time.
Speaker 1:Now are there people out there that are hiring people, looking at their quotas and saying, well, we better make sure we give. But man from a business sense. That doesn't make any sense, because if you're running a business and you're hiring people based on that you're just setting yourself up for failure as a business. You've got to have the smartest, brightest people that are available if you want to keep your business afloat. And if you're a governmental agency that needs to get an overwhelming amount of work done or a nonprofit agency that needs to get an overwhelming amount of work done with very limited resources, you're going to get the best and the brightest You've got to. And if you're just doing it based on some other criteria, that would be such a minute present because I can't say there aren't those people.
Speaker 1:But, for goodness sakes, it's like using the term welfare queens. Give me a freaking break. Do you know how many instances have been proven to be true, for that to be even close to being a truth comment? And it's. Even in those instances there are extenuating circumstances that make it reasonable that that happened, that that person is in fact collecting multiple, whatever assistances, because but there's just as many white folks that do that as there are people of color, probably more because there's, you know, more systematic abuse amongst white people than any other folks in the country. Period, that's just true.
Speaker 1:So, people, come on, just think. Please encourage your friends to think, because I suspect that the people who are listening to this are already kind of on this side of the fence we're preaching to the choir, but we need to get out and get that word and find loving, compassionate ways to move people away from that thinking wherever possible. Because I don't think it is possible with everybody. I think some people are just so dyed-in-the-wool stupid just plain stupid about this stuff, stuff, and are so locked into their way of thinking that you're probably wasting your breath casting pearls before swine if you try to have these kinds of discussions with them. I hate to say that, but it's, I think, just a reality. So if you're sensing that that's the equation, move on and pray for them. That's about the best I think any of us can hope to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, you know, when it comes to DEI, and you know opportunities, man, you know, of course, it's constantly like we've just been talking, it's under attack and it's being dismantled, whether it's through media, rhetoric, lawsuits, legislation. You know, of course, the victims are people of color. You know affirmative action, hiring practices, equitable education policies are always the first to go. They always we're seeing like they're the first to be defunded, like the Department of Education. Who benefits, great, the most from the Department of Education? You know it's going to be rural and urban areas, right, you know, but to take away education at the very core of it, you know saying, and just basically, like they're trying to make it to where everything starts to be funneled to these private schools which a lot of people won't be able to get to or a lot of people won't qualify for. No, it is just you're trying to cut the feet from under a whole Race of people, races of people.
Speaker 2:You know these move, these right wing or conservative movements, on their position, on the, it's like they are like a point of no return, a zero sum game. They're gaining things, that means we're losing things and, of course, and what that does, it just kind of promotes that racial resentment. It deepens the device, it reinforces the myth that people of color succeed only on preferential treatment, not merit, and of course, that's what they talk about, the merit system. I'll give you an example Donald Trump's granddaughter, she was just, you know, she just qualified for a junior golf tournament for like the 30 best female 30 best females in the country and the 30 best males in the country. Now, on a national scale, donald trump's granddaughter, she, out of all these high school golfers, she ranked 2, whatever, but she made the top 30 somehow. And you know, and so we just, just, I'm going to say that's all I'm going to say about that.
Speaker 2:But you know, we talk about you know how DEI takes away opportunities, man, when they say we only make it by preferential treatment, this tactic, it has a psychological effect on people as well, like black professionals, black students, leaders. No, we are constantly having to defend our worth, we constantly have to defend our legitimacy, or we constantly have to defend that, and I fear for the younger generation, or people that have a weaker spirit, because they're going to be constantly accused of being diversity, hires or quotas, and it's just, this thing can beat down on a person and it starts to make them doubt themselves. You know, and these, yeah, these micro aggressions and systemic things that they're doing serve to discourage future generations for pursuing opportunities where they might be most needed, whether it it's law, medicine, education, corporate leadership. You know the result of this social climate where people of color are constantly forced to defend themselves, their presence and our worth, right, right. But now we're about to be shut out of every possible opportunity. And that's where you know like we need the allyship, we need people to stand up, we need people to really just open their eyes to this thing and, of course, like I say, they call you woke or they're going to say they're going to use some form of reverse racism. It's been in their favor for hundreds of years. The same thing has been argued for hundreds of years, but now again, major advancements are starting to be made. But here we are again with this thing and I want to be clear black people, don't start this mess. This mess has just been brewing for years and generations.
Speaker 2:But, however, since it has now been made OK to say you're racist, it's been made OK to say some of the most hideous things that are coming out of people's mouths right now, and it's a sad thing, you know. Of course we are to be protecting diversity, equity and inclusion in all the institutions pertaining to life, and inclusion in all the institutions pertaining to life. You know the justice system, education, the medical field, all these things you know. And the sad part is you know why they demonize DEI. You know it just misinforms. It'll confuse a well-intended person and it'll just confuse them. You know, if they are like you mentioned, if a person is stuck in their news bubble, they won't really get what diversity, equity, inclusion is all about and we have to fight for it. It robs us of this. Attack on DEI is robbing this country of some very significant growth in the world. We, the country itself is not falling behind because of DEI is not falling behind because of DEI is falling behind because we continuously, some of the best people for a job will never get that job now, or they won't even be considered.
Speaker 2:And that's where, you know, we have to open our eyes and say, hey, no, we can no longer allow these systemic and systematic injustices to keep going. We have to really boldly stand up and talk to the lie. And now, of course, it's hard to. It's hard to argue against a lie or against the way a person feels. It's hard to. You can simply state the truth and keep stating it, you know. And again, and it's like, and we better be able to back it up with fact, you know, with actual fact, because again, you can talk to a person and maybe change their way.
Speaker 2:But when you're talking to a group of people, like, say, 75 million people, you know who voted in this past election for the current situation, it's gonna be hard to in the course now and, like we've talked about this a couple weeks ago, the sad part is a lot of people are seeing things go horribly wrong, even with the mishandling of. You know what happened with this signal app thing where they actually put attack plans in a text is that DEI wasn't a black person on the call. No, tulsi Gabbard she was on the call. Are they not calling that a DEI thing now? So they pick the shoes where they want to weaponize it and demonize it. But I'll tell you, we're getting into a point where we really have to just really stand, talk and be bold about this subject and there you have it, folks, round one of our passionate discussion on dei diversity, equity, inclusion.
Speaker 1:Look up those three words. Look them up so that when you're talking with a friend of yours that maybe is you know and taking down that path, look up those three words. Look them up so that when you're talking with a friend of yours that maybe is you know, been taken down that path. Look up those words so that you know exactly what they mean, you know why they've been categorized in that way. And try to look up some of the actual examples of diversity, equity and inclusion being used. Who does it cover? Get some knowledge underneath your you know, in your head to be able to use. It's like you know my theater background. We rehearse. We rehearse shows. We first gather as a cast. We rehearse for six to eight weeks before we ever pull the curtain. You know because we know when we pull the curtain something's going to happen on that stage and something's going to happen out in that audience area and we hope it's going to be good. So rehearse, get your lines down right, get the ability to be able to talk intelligently about it and compassionately, because we're not just looking to argue people intellectually into this.
Speaker 1:But you know, I keep thinking in statements like it's not what you know, it's who you know. That's been around forever. You know, and this is exactly what's going on right now. This is the real battle going on. It's not what we know, it's who we know. That's going to end up getting people their jobs. It's going to end up getting their positions of power. That's exactly what's happening with every political administration, since I don't know when the people that get appointed for the cabinets that make the big decisions that affect you and I are appointed because of who they know right and if they don't like it, they're going to remove you Yep real quickly, Like the black president or chancellor of Harvard University, as well as the white female chancellor of Penn University.
Speaker 2:They used DEI, they used antisemitic whatever to remove those women and that's all it was so next time we continue with our discussion.
Speaker 1:Folks, my name is Raul, that's Raul. Raul DeCresc-McDuff and you young men are, and Thorne, and we are together, coming together here on Kramer Reference, and we hope that you will comment. We'll get in the discussion as well. Go to wwwforsaukcom and leave a comment. Please make it something that we can discuss instead of something that just says you're an idiot, you don't know what you're talking about. Blah, blah. I mean, voice your concerns, voice the things that happened to you, the real experiences. That's fine, but you know, let's have a discussion about it, right, let's try to figure out. Hey, what's really going on. Okay, all right, until next time. Amen, see you then. All right, take care everybody. Thanks for listening.
