Frame of Reference - Profiles in Leadership
"Frame of Reference - Profiles in Leadership" and "Frame of Reference - Coming together" are conversational style shows with local, national, and global experts about issues that affect all of us in some way. I’m, at heart, a “theatre person”. I was drawn to theatre in Junior High School and studied it long enough to get a Master of Fine Arts in Stage Direction. It’s the one thing that I’m REALLY passionate about it because as Shakespeare noted, “all the world’s a stage and all the men and women merely players”. Think about the universality of that line for just a moment. Think about the types of “theatre” that play out around us every day in today’s world. The dramatic, the comedic, the absurd, the existential, the gorilla theatre (it’s a thing, look it up) that is pumped into our Smart Phones, TV’s, Radios, and PC’s every minute of every day.
Think about the tremendous forces that “play” upon us - trying to first discover, then channel, feed, nurture, and finally harvest our will power and biases in order to move forward the agendas of leaders we will likely never meet. Think of all these forces (behind the scenes of course) and how they use the basic tools of theatre to work their “magic” on the course of humanity. Emotionally charged content matched to carefully measured and controlled presentations.
With that in mind (and to hopefully counter the more insidious agendas), I bring you the Frame of Reference "Family" of podcasts, where the voices of our local and global leadership can share their passion for why and how they are leaders in their community and in many cases, the world. Real players with real roles in a world of real problems. No special effects, no hidden agenda, just the facts and anecdotes that make a leader.
And at the risk of sounding trite, I sincerely thank my wife Ann and my two children Elisabeth and Josiah for continually teaching me what leadership SHOULD look like.
Frame of Reference - Profiles in Leadership
The DEI Boogyman Part 2: Dog-Eating Myths and 401k Truths: How Fearmongering Shapes America
What happens when we allow catchy slogans and fear-based rhetoric to shape our understanding of diversity and inclusion? Rauel and Antowan tackle this question head-on as they dissect the troubling misconceptions surrounding DEI (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion) policies in America.
The duo doesn't shy away from uncomfortable truths, examining how phrases like "We Will Die by DEI" manipulate emotions and bypass critical thinking. They highlight alarming Federal data showing white men still earn 33% more than Black men performing identical jobs—a depressing level of improvement from the 47% gap in 1969, and stark evidence that systemic inequalities persist despite progress.
This conversation goes beyond political talking points to examine the spiritual and ethical dimensions of justice. Antowan powerfully notes that "unbalanced scales are an abomination to God," challenging listeners who claim religious values while opposing policies that help the vulnerable. Meanwhile, Rauel calls for Americans to "be a Daniel"—standing firmly for what's right even when facing tremendous opposition.
The hosts create a rare space where complex issues around race, economics, and faith intersect without descending into partisan bickering. They argue that the true division in America isn't between races or political parties but between the privileged and disadvantaged—a perspective that challenges listeners across the political spectrum.
Whether you're confused by DEI debates, concerned about America's future, or simply seeking thoughtful conversation in a polarized time, this episode offers clarity, compassion, and a challenge to examine both facts and values. Join the conversation at www.forsauk.com and become part of a community committed to honest dialogue about our shared future.
Thanks for listening. Please check out our website at www.forsauk.com to hear great conversations on topics that need to be talked about. In these times of intense polarization we all need to find time to expand our Frame of Reference.
Let's have it.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, let's have it. Let's have it on a spit and we're going to turn that sucker around on the old rotisserie and it's going to come up being so fried and yummy that we are all going to just want to get in on this meal and to the meal today served by chef raul labrash actually raul like raul, but you know, when you're saying chef before it, you kind of have to fancy up the first name a little bit raul francois labrash. Oui, and my cohort in crime and culinary delights, mr, mr.
Speaker 1:Antoine Hallman Sr. And of course you know, depending on who you're talking to, my name is spelled so many different ways and I guess it's of a French descent, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, my dad was an Antoine, you know, and Antoine Antoine depends on who you're talking to right Right. The French is supposed to be A-N-T-O-I-N-E. So the story goes that Grandpa LaBrush was at the Department of Records in Menominee Michigan, trying to explain. You know what's his first name Antoine, antoine. So how do you spell that? A-n-t-o-i-n-e.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I got the South Side Chicago spelling spelling.
Speaker 2:there you go, antoine, yeah yeah, every time I do the spell check on like the the text to typing thing for the show, I always have to go on and change it from a-t-o-i-n-e to a-t-w-o-a-n. You know, antoine, man, antoine, oh, how much simpler can we get it for you?
Speaker 1:I know people like to hang on that O in my name too, it's just Antoine. People like Antoine, yeah, antoine.
Speaker 2:I think that sounds like cool. Here's my friend Antoine, I know right, people hang.
Speaker 1:They carry that, o yeah.
Speaker 2:What's that?
Speaker 1:one.
Speaker 2:Who's the comedians that do the thing where the substitute teacher is in and he's going through the roster and he says A-A-Ron, so it's like a double A-A-Ron, or Aaron.
Speaker 1:So it's like A-A-Ron Key and Peele.
Speaker 2:Yeah, key and Peele, so I've got a couple of friends that are Aarons and I'm always like A-A-Ron, so how are you doing so?
Speaker 1:but anyway, how you doing, man. Hey, man, all is well. Man, uh just uh just excited about continuing our conversation from last week and uh just uh again just bringing the awareness, uh, just uh trying to create a safe space for people to come in, uh, just uh share their opinions and their thoughts and and just really just uh try to dispel any missing disinformation that's out there. And really, man, just uplift people Amen, educate, amen, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, and for those of you that haven't listened to last week's episode, actually it would be two weeks ago now, but I've got to tell you, dudes, ladies, gentlemen, whatever you want to call yourself number one, what's going on in your life that you don't have time to listen to the first episode. And number two, to get you a little filled in, we started on the diversity, equity and inclusion topic, which has really gotten turned into just a farce by folks that you've probably heard things like we Will Die by DEI. We Will Die by DEI, and that's a really catchy slogan, don't you think?
Speaker 2:And it made me think of a song that I used to know really well by a guy named Michael W Smith, and he had a song called Wired for Sound. That got released back in 1986. And the chorus of it is word of mouth is the counselor, there is no need for proof. In a world that's wired for sound, the tongue becomes a mighty sword that battles the truth. In a world that's wired for sound, wisdom from the sacred page is turned and ignored. In a world that's wired for sound and you know the lord's just so good at bringing things back that you know have been part of our lives over time and that song, that lyric, just speaks to me volumes about what is going on. You know we were talking a little bit before we started on that.
Speaker 2:You know, when you have an organization and a group of people that can use things like they're eating the dogs, it has nothing to do with the reality of what they're saying. Whether it's happening or not is irrelevant. What it's doing is evoking an emotional response immediately. Because if you're going to hate somebody, if you're going to turn someone into an enemy, if you can correlate them with eating dogs, wow, that's powerful. And if you can get people to not question, even when there are reporters that are saying we've talked with the chief of police, we've talked with the mayor of the city, there's no evidence that that took place, it doesn't matter, because by that point the damage is already done to the folks that hate immigrants, that feel threatened by immigrants. They're already equating yeah, but I bet some of them are eating dogs. I bet they are. So that process that using that wired for sound tidbit of they're eating the dogs, gets people to disengage their brain and just let it go straight through to their amygdala, the animal part that's you know fight, flight or you know fawn, and that's what. That's where we're. We're missing the boat.
Speaker 2:I think honestly on a lot of this when we're talking about dei. When people are turning it into a slogan of you were going to die by dei, I would say wait a minute. Wait a minute. You're talking. Wait a minute. You're di. You're talking about diversity, equity and inclusion. Right, that's the acronym that you're you're talking about, right?
Speaker 2:I don't know, what it stands for. Yeah, actually, diversity, equity and inclusion are what those policies were all about. Oh yeah, so white guys can't get jobs, right? Um, no, no, white guys still get plenty of jobs. I don't know if you've noticed that when you go around to various businesses, there's a lot of white people working at those jobs. So not about them not getting jobs. It's about other people that have a hard time getting jobs, having an opportunity to get jobs, like women, like black people, hispanic people. Yeah, those are people that are included in that diversity, equity and inclusion, but what's wrong with that? These are people that need jobs too. Well, they're getting a job because they're less competent than a white guy that should get the job. Who do you know that's happened to? Where are the people that didn't get a job because they were more competent, that someone got a job over them simply because they were black and someone wanted to fill a checkbox on their quota listing when? Where did that happen, please, can you? Let's investigate that, because I don't think that happens.
Speaker 2:But if there is something where a person that has the opportunity and the ability, the skill level to be hired, race, should not be a reason for prohibiting them from getting a job and, frankly, folks, it has been a reason for excluding them. There have been plenty of years where people had signs up that say people of color need not apply. That's a real thing. That's a real thing. That has happened. So do we want to try to be that country again? Is that what this is all about? Are we trying to get back to be the country that had those signs? And it was okay to make those signs, because white guys need to have jobs? Man, man, white guys, they ought to get the jobs first. I I thought people that needed jobs should get jobs. I thought people that are willing to work hard for a job should get jobs. Isn't, isn't that what it should be about?
Speaker 1:regardless. Well, and and again, it just uh, that age-old uh tactic, uh, you know, it's been going on for centuries. You know, that white replacement theory thing that reverse racism. Of course, you know, let's just, when people try to demonize DEI, they just try to take away from the actual purpose of it, you know. And of course they want to dismiss it as some kind of radical behavior or some kind of weird or strange ideology. And notice, I say ideology is they try to dismiss DEI as an ideology if they're trying to distort the purpose of it versus understanding and acknowledging what DEI actually is it's a framework to correct the historical and systemic, you know, injustice. And of course now they say, oh, dei is a threat to the merit-based system or traditional values. But actually, you know, when they mischaracterize it that way, you know, again, they're trying to ignite fear, you know.
Speaker 1:And then of course, there is this classic scapegoating, you know, you know everything that goes wrong, like for the last couple years, you know, leading up to this election, and even just shortly past, like we were talking about. You know, the plane crash and the wildfires in California. You know, of course, dei was responsible. Dei was responsible, you know, and it just again just trying to minimize the accomplishments and the accomplishments as well as the. You know what we, what people of color, actually do in the culture. You know, and this is where you know what we, what people of color, actually do in the culture. You know, and this is where you know we as people. We, you know black, white, whatever you are we have to stand up to this misinformation campaign and, of course, like when you know, depending on who they're talking to, when they're talking about DEI as this boogeyman or this reverse racism, it's woke, it's critical racism. When they start to spread and do these things, it becomes in the eyes of the beholder, it becomes real, it becomes fair because, you know conservatives, they'll claim that DEI promotes hiring based on identity versus merit. And of course, it's like, and it's funny because now, even when we start to hear that, oh, everything is based on merit after a 400 plus year head start, now we want to base it on merit. No, dei is to say, hey, let's kind of take a look back, let's even the playing ground, let's acknowledge the systemic and systematic things that have happened in this country that have put people of color at an almost a permanent disadvantage, and let's correct this.
Speaker 1:And but of course you know these false narratives and these things about you know, oh, white people can't get jobs. It's like I don't see it. There's always jobs, like when you go down to, like, say, alabama, and you know places like that. I don't see who's picking those watermelon, you know. You go down to Georgia who's picking those peaches, you know when you go down to Florida who's picking those oranges. It ain't too many. You know, if you, if you, if you say you can't get a job, uh, you ain't looking hard enough, you know.
Speaker 1:But again, this tactic, it just uh, it's, it's, it's just a baseline for all the undercurrent things that are going on. You know we talk about, you know, just like the road, like this whole attack on DEI, but underneath there is the rollback of civil rights and voting acts and the voting rights acts and all these different things trying to, you know, trying to get rid of the 14th Amendment, trying to take away birthright citizenship. It's all these, this gaslighting of DEI is just a voice, it's theatrics, you know, it's playing to a group of people, you know. And of course, like the sad part is, I just figure it's a master class in manipulation, because if people actually really just slow down, took a look and if they even care to, let's just start there, because a lot of people don't even care to know about. They don't care to know what another person's struggle is or care to know what another person's plight is. They don't care to know.
Speaker 1:But just, even with that, it's just getting to get into that place of understanding and they want to take that away because again, like we're trying to whitewash history, say, oh, slavery was, you know they wanted it. And it's like no, you know. And then, of course, just minimizing and taking away the contributions of people of color in this country. Then you say I can't get a job, I can't get a job. No, that's not true. There's jobs everywhere, you know. If you, if you, if you want a job, you can get a job, you know.
Speaker 1:But again, it's just uh when they try to demonize DEI in this way. It's hurtful, it's shameful, you know. And then again it's just uh, it's blame shifting as well, you know. When we talk about blame shifting, you know, of course, like when you point out a problem, you become the issue. So we ignore the problem and start to attack you. And so that's where all this deflection and projection and this manipulation starts to take place.
Speaker 1:And if we are, if we don't open our eyes and ears, a lot of the Bible tells us many, even even God's elect, will be deceived. And we see in a lot of people being deceived by a lot of rhetoric, in all these theatrics, and it's like oh, look at this, Look at my right hand, and what, never mind what my left hand is doing, and it's all these different things and it's like but we just saw over this past weekend, you know when. It's like when these stocks and when these tariffs came out, and all these different things like, oh, because a lot of people was like, oh, that only was supposed to attack them this and that and the other. But it's like you got to understand if you ain't making a certain amount of money, you're, you fall, whether you're a white male, you know, living in rural wherever, if you're not making an X amount of dollars, you fit into the DEI class too.
Speaker 2:What I don't get. Yeah, we've talked about that how many times. Right, the differences between people in this world are not between whites and blacks or, you know, democrats and Republicans. It's between the haves and the have-nots. And, like it or not, in this country, you know and this speaks to the whole issue of white fragility we, as white folk, we do not understand at all what it is like to be a black man in this country. We don't. There's just no way we can say, oh, I have all kinds of black friends. I consider myself so blessed to have Antoine in my life and his wife Ramona. If you think he's on fire, you should meet Ramona, boy. She's like whoo that woman comes in.
Speaker 1:You. You know god has come in the room right, you just know it.
Speaker 2:So so we are, we are becoming such. I I'm hoping I'm gonna speak for you, antoine, antoine, with an antoine um, hoping I'm speaking for you, but, um, we become good friends and and it it continues to amaze me what God is doing in us through our friendship. And yet I still do not have any idea what it is like to be a black man in America. I can't experience because I'm not that person. I don't have to deal with what he deals with on a daily basis. When people look at him and immediately say, oh, there's a black guy, I mean, you know, I guess I deal with some of it. When they look at me and say I'm a white guy, especially, I guess, if I was on the south side of Chicago. Maybe I don't know, but it's not the same.
Speaker 2:So I say all that because we need to somehow come up with a way of looking at reality that doesn't threaten us but emboldens us to make change, because when we get caught up in the well, there are plenty of white, black guys, but there's white guys that blah, blah, blah. You're missing the point. The point is not whether or not you know a guy got a good deal or a bad deal because we were white or black. The point is that a guy got a bad deal because he's just not the right side of the fence, you know. He just doesn't have enough money to be able to fight it and we're all victims of that. So why don't we join together against that and do something about it? And I point to just some data because I like data. You know people have all kinds of opinions, but data is really important. And one of the things I just called up off the Federal Reserve Bank of St Louis. So if somebody wants to say, oh, this is, you know, skewed data or whatnot, go right ahead. But it's just Federal Reserve Bank of St Louis and they don't have a whole lot to gain by putting these kinds of numbers out there.
Speaker 2:But they put a survey together that showed the white and black wage gaps that grew or stabilized after declining periods of time in an economy Among white men and adult white women and adult black women. The disparity between those folks in 1989 was projected to be somewhere in the neighborhood of five percent-ish. The real discrepancy between those groups of people was almost 30 percent. So people didn't think it was that bad, but in reality, it was pretty bad. So we take it all the way up now to 2022, and that disparity, after all that had been done, that was. You know, there were really, I think, pretty, pretty good efforts. I mean, people were trying to get diversity, equity and inclusion policies enacted, yada, yada right. Even after all that time, still in 2022, the projected to be about 10%, but they were still at like 21%. So, and now what's going to happen now since 2022?
Speaker 2:With adult black men and adult white men. Oh, now it gets really fun, okay, in 1969, before any of the diversity DEI stuff happened, they projected that the difference was really only about 7%. That's what they projected. In reality, the numbers looked more like 47% disparity. So that means an average white guy doing the same job as an average black guy, they're going to get 47% more for doing that job than a black guy doing the same job.
Speaker 2:You want to talk about feeling, you know, mad. That's a pretty good reason to feel mad All the way now to 2022. So that's 1969. We take it all the way to 2022. Again, the perceived difference was very low. You know, maybe 7%. That's predicted. That's the difference between them them because you know we're much more enlightened now. Right, yeah, maybe got a little better, but the real difference was more like 33%. So still, they're making 33% more just by being a white guy than a black guy doing the same job.
Speaker 2:So sit back please. Somebody out there, please tell me You're a white guy and you got a job and you're getting paid 33% more than a black guy doing the same job. Feel good about that. Isn't that kind of like a participation award when you're on a baseball team and you never hit the ball once in your life. But you come to practices every week and you try, but you just can't play baseball. And you get a participation award. That drives some people. I know nuts. You get a participation award for showing up to work. No, that's part of the expectation You're coming to work. So put it in that frame of reference, shall we? You really think that there's a disparity going on here? There is, and the disparity has been on the white side of the equation, and it's bad enough that the disparity is there. But then the people that have the puppet strings, that are pulling it all are making you think you, white guy, they're making you think that your problem is not what they're doing up there pulling those strings. It's this black guy who, right out of the gates, is going to make 33% less than you do for doing the same job. So that to me is like that old thing that remember I don't know if they ever said this in your circles, antoine how the Christian army is the only army that actually shoots its wounded. That's what we're being led to do, folks. We're shooting our wounded.
Speaker 2:We got people that are just trying to get ahead, and when you go to a mall. I went to a mall not too long ago in Madison and there was this I don't know, probably 20-something, maybe early 30-something big black guy cleaning the floors and whatnot you know all the food area. And I'm thinking to myself. I want to go up and just say thanks so much for you know cleaning up after all us folks. I really appreciate it. And shame on me. I was like he's going to think I'm like the weirdest white dude ever in the entire world that I'm just pointing it out. No, I wanted to point out something to say. These are people that are working in thankless jobs, jobs. You know whether there are people outside our door here this summer when it was a hundred and something in the shade digging holes for fiber optic cable to be lied put in for a huge you know com company for four guys four latinx guys digging a hole. That's the kind of jobs that people are getting. And now we're attacking those same people.
Speaker 2:The IRS is sharing information with INS so they can find people that are paying taxes.
Speaker 1:They're paying taxes. And this is the part because a lot of those jobs are paying 20 plus dollars an hour and it's like you had every opportunity to apply for the job. And again, just the demonization of DEI. You know, people want to say DEI is not about handing out unearned opportunities, but it's just acknowledging and recognizing that we all don't start from the same place. The reality is that America has never been an even playing ground, right, it has never been level, you know. But DEI, you know it aims to kind of create one. You know, by creating these kind of structures, kind of structures it tried to elevate, recognize the diverse voices.
Speaker 1:Of course, when we talk about people of color in academics, entrepreneurship, science, medicine, art, whatever, it goes unnoticed, it goes uncelebrated. And again we see the whitewashing of history as they try to move towards the merit-based system. Now, after a 400-plus year head start, and it's just like we have to learn to embrace inclusion and equity, because that's what is going to make this country grow. And even over this past week of news, you know, just because a person fits a certain stature, a white male doesn't know. I hate to say this, but you know, the best In the United States presidency, the best man didn't get the job, the best man or woman didn't get the job, and of course, that's where we are. But again, it's just like when you create this boogeyman, you invoke fear and you do all these things to shift the mind, and again, there's a bunch of psychological tactics at play here that I wish people would really open their eyes to, because it's just scary. How to just me looking like, wow, these people have really, you know, bit this apple and believe this. And it's like, and even a lot of them don't believe it, but they say you know what, in standing up with my friends or in I believe, certain, I think America should be this way They'll fight for something that they don't necessarily believe in.
Speaker 1:But it's just, this is a scary time, you know, and of course, we have to defend and advance DEI in this terrible climate of resistance. You know, we got to reject the false narratives that try to demonize it. We got to educate ourselves and others about the true purpose of diversity, equity and inclusion, and it starts with sharing accurate information. Schools, workforces, churches, social media activists, educators, leaders. We need to be more bold in calling out racist rhetoric connecting the dots between DEI and systemic oppression. Because again, this barking on the top level of things, there is so much going on underneath, like the defunding of HBCUs, the defunding of the NAACP, every thing that advances people of color is being defunded. Of course, even with the parts of USAID actually benefited the farmers and other people in the United States itself. But they took it away with the intent of hurting someone else, not realizing that it's hurting themselves. And then again that's a hard issue. Right there You'll cut off your own foot to spite someone else. But again we got to just have to really just start calling these things out. You know we can no longer be silent about these things. You know, of course we got to support policies, we got to support leaders who defend affirmative action, inclusive hiring, equitable funding and marginal for people that are marginalized. You know, of course this goes back to the Homestead Act, it goes back to steering and redlining. No, these challenges we have to meet them head on and voting the right people in.
Speaker 1:And again, I like how one Republican said this. He was like he didn't like what was happening in his party, the party of old. He was like we're going to have to lose a few cycles for this thing to get right. But again people are hanging on for whiteness, for their dear life, because again they've invoked this. Such a fear of, oh, our race is going to be tainted, oh, this is that and the other, and it's like no, this is.
Speaker 1:It's about loving people, plain and simple. You know, of course, you know, when we talk about, you know, a lot of these people claim they're Christian. You know, they say all these different kinds of things but they are not following the word. You know, like Deuteronomy 10, 19 says you must love the foreigner, for you were foreigners in the land of Egypt, we. And then, of course, you know, and it's just like you know, again, people, same people, that says, hey, uh, I, I'm a Christian, I'm a Christian, I'm a Christian. It's like, ok, are you? Are you reading God's word? Are you truly reading God's word? Because you know, no, unbalanced scales are an abomination to God. Uneven playing fields are an abomination to him. When you stack the deck against another, that's, that's an abomination to him. Deck against another, that's an abomination to him.
Speaker 1:When you lie about another race, like the deportation of all these Latin American people, it's just targeted, it's all, to invoke fear. They don't want these people speaking out. They don't want them voting they don't want them. It's just, again, it's about protecting their ideology of what america's supposed to look like. Because, as you're removing all these people of color out of the country, but yet you're giving visas to white south africans and if you notice something about, uh, that particular movement, they're white south af South Africans are coming into this country. They're getting legalized in all other countries of the world, and then, of course, you see, people are like well, why does President Trump want to take Greenland? Because there is his perceived level of whiteness. It's a lot of whiteness over there. Let's just call it what it is.
Speaker 2:Well, they have a lot of gemstones too, so there's some money being made in Greenland.
Speaker 1:Exactly and again. But it's like all these things, you know, it's like there's so many undercurrent things happen below the surface of this, this DEI argument, and, of course, again, you scapegoat DEI to really take away from what's really going. Instead of addressing the issue, you want to scapegoat it or demonize it, you want to deflect and project. And this is where we, as Americans, we just have to say hey, I'm going to make a concentrated effort to learn more about other people, I'm going to make a concentrated effort to learn civics, the basic functions of government, all these different things. Because people don't realize. They're like oh yeah, we want to cut government spending. It's like, no, what he's doing, he's taking all the safeguards out of the way so he can do what he want to do. The people, like all the inspector generals, fired them all because those are the guys that keep things in place, you know. And, of course, when you remove all the safeguards, you can deregulate. Because, again, if you think about what this does, you know we ain't gonna be able to know what's in our food. Fda, cdc, all those organizations we're not. Yep, uh, we're your favorite fishing hole somewhere in the country or in the state. You ain't going to be able to fish there no more, because there's going to be stuff getting dumped in it because the deregulating of these different entities and again we have to really just take a step back and say, hey, dei is not bad is again. United States has never been a fair, equal level playing ground and there has been 400 plus years of evidence that shows that. You know, there has been systemic and systematic things in place to keep different people below and. But now, as DEI calls these things out, it's being demonized. So just I just encourage people to just say, hey, I want to learn more, go.
Speaker 1:Just like I watch a lot of different, like there's a couple of podcasts I really like to watch. You know, I don't know if you ever heard of the defiant lawyers. You know these two lawyers. They are African-American lawyers. One of them, he's a strong man of God and he equates the current things to scripture and I love how he does that and that's one of my news sources. And of course, again, when we're talking about news sources, of course a lot of the things that I was mentioning previously. You know you ain't going to see them on mainstream news. You're not going to see them on MSNBC, cnn, fox, newsmax and all these other stations. So I look to, like Roland Martin, I look to, you know, brian Tyler Cohen, I look to places like that to really get some news.
Speaker 1:Like I said, I watch Fox News, I watch Newsmax to see what's being said, because in today I hate to say it, you know, but it's almost like you have to prepare an argument or prepare your factual statements to dispel what's being said. You know, and that's where we are Cause, like you know, in in the Christian realm, you know, we always encourage people to read their Bible, study your Bible, pray, you know, of course. And then there is one pastor told me this. He was like it's important for men and women of God to really know the Bible, because when we're talking like cause, the Bible tells us hey, don't debate with a fool, because people from afar won't know who the fool is.
Speaker 1:But when we come up against certain things, right, you know, like this pastor, he told me he was like the atheist is always ready for the Christian, but the Christian is not always ready for the atheist, meaning that if you're in a space where there's a maybe even a level tone, sensible conversation, the atheist will appear to be right, because we're not ready, we are not educated, we're not studied up, we're not prayed up, we're not strengthened applies in this realm. You know, when we just you know, because people are taking missing disinformation as gospel. They're not researching for themselves, they're not feeding themselves, they're not doing the basic thing, and you know, and we just have to learn to defend ourselves and our future.
Speaker 2:No, of course, again, it's going to take all of us course, again, it's going to take all of us one decide why we believe it. I, I just, uh, I'm on a kick for lyrics today. For some reason, I I also. There's an artist, uh, it's interesting because michael w smith and stephen curse chapman were two artists christian artists that I got hooked on to early, when ann and I were first dating and then got married or whatnot, so those two have stuck with me. I just watched a Michael W Smith video with the guys that have King Country, so it was so cool to see. You know, here he is in his 60s, like I am, with these two young 30-somethings singing one of his songs that you know is my Place in this World is the name of the tune. But it made me go back and listen to some other stuff.
Speaker 2:And Stephen Curtis Chapman put out a song a couple years ago called In Living Color, and it's about a relationship he had with a kid back when he was early. He said whatever happened to Carlton Bell, my best friend, in the seventh grade we played our snare drum side by side in the middle school marching band Disney parade, raised our money to ride the bus to Orlando, knocking on doors up and down the street selling those bars of the world's finest chocolate and splitting every third one between him and me. So you get it. You got to know who this relationship right. Everybody's hopefully had a friend like that. I know I did. And then the chorus is. And his skin was black and my skin was white and the sky was blue and the future was bright and our blood ran red in both our veins and we were both looking at the world and living color and he talks. This whole song is kind of about. You know their relationship and how.
Speaker 2:In high school he moved away. They lost track of each other. He finally looked them up again when they got older and he did a little research. I found his picture. I recognized his smile immediately. He moved out west raising kids, working in a factory. He moved out west raising kids working in a factory, got sick and passed away in 2016.
Speaker 2:Looking at his face as a grown man got me thinking how different life can be while so much stays the same. His friend said he was a good man, loved his God and loved his family. Did not surprise me that his good heart remained, but his skin was black and my skin was white. Oh, wait, wait, sorry his skin was black and I wonder if my friend felt judged and afraid in ways that I've never been, and it weighs heavy on my heart. But then I think of where he is now in living color.
Speaker 2:Well, I know these things are all way more complicated. So much is broken beyond fixing, it can seem, and, if I'm honest, I'm scared to even write and sing this song. I don't want to somehow say the wrong thing, but I was thinking, maybe if I told our story, maybe I could help someone remember and believe that there's a lot of goodness and wonder left in this broken world, just like there was back then for Carlton and me. That's the power. That's the power, ladies and gentlemen. That's the power that we have. It's the relationships that we have with other people that teach us that we're all in the same battle together, trying to hold it together, trying to raise our families, trying to make sure that maybe my son who just got engaged, and make sure that I leave the world maybe little better place and that he's prepared to fight for even a better place.
Speaker 2:But who do we want to be, america? Who do we want to be? Do we want to be the people that go back to colored section in restaurants, because that's where we're heading. You don't think we're heading there. You ain't watching the news or you need to watch more of it and get in touch with what's going on.
Speaker 2:Is that who we want to be? Or we want to be the place that says you know what. I don't care what color your skin is. That doesn't. That couldn't matter less to me. I want to know the quality of your character. I want to know that your yes means yes and your no means no. I want to know that you know how to love people. I want to know that you know how to admit when you're wrong. And I'll tell you, that's the thing I see so little of in our leadership today.
Speaker 2:When's the last time you heard President Donald Trump say I was wrong about that, even when he backed off on tariffs? If he would have said you know what I know, I think tariffs are a really good thing, I think they're a powerful tool, but I think I maybe got a little crazy with them I would have so much more respect for him than just what he does now, which is and if you read his book the Art of the Deal, he was taught never, ever, ever, ever, admit you were wrong. Ever, don't, ever do that. And to me, everybody here knows those people in your life that never admit that they're wrong. Yeah, I think of them as assholes. Huh, they're just. Oh, don't talk to that guy. He's an asshole because he's never wrong.
Speaker 1:I think we got a new T-shirt coming, man MAGA, our version of MAGA.
Speaker 2:Make A blanks go away. I'll say it for you Make assholes go away. Doesn't that have a ring to it? He can't say he's a preacher, but I can say make assholes go away.
Speaker 1:I think we need to coin that right away. That's ours. Anybody out there listening? That's ours.
Speaker 2:Drink java. That makes assholes go away.
Speaker 1:Eat my celery. It makes assholes go away. So you know, eat my issue. It also creates resentment amongst people and that's what they want to do. And that's where we have to say wait a minute. That does it, because a lot of people know right from wrong. I'm giving every the world the benefit of the doubt. In some cases they know right from wrong, but it's just a lot of times again, people don't want to admit. No, they say like when a person tells me that they they don't agree with trump, but they agree with his policy, I'm like are you kidding me? Yeah, you know, really, are you? Are you serious? You know? Are you for losing between 16 and 40 000 in your 401k over the last week? Are you really for that?
Speaker 2:I had 150,000 in front of my work. For me, You're okay with that.
Speaker 1:Are you really for your parents?
Speaker 1:your grandparents or even your SSI being taken away. Are you really for that? And again, it's like it's just. It's just. I have to just believe that. I have to trust in God's justice here. I really I have to trust in his justice. I have to remember how we were talking a couple of weeks ago. Like we have to, we have to fight, but we have to fight from the right heart.
Speaker 1:Posture Cause again, if we repay evil with evil, no, nothing good has come of it. And of course, like say, you know, one person throws a blow, we throw a blow. That'll go on for years. But if we step out of the way and let God throw the blow, it's a once and for all kind of thing. And so that's why I encourage people. Hey, you know, like I was talking with some people the other day and I was like, hey, we have to us.
Speaker 1:Forgiving people does not excuse their sin or their wrongdoing. It releases us from the prison of resentment and bitterness. And when we are released from the prison of resentment and bitterness, we have a peace. And God's power can only operate in the peace, because if we're chaos for chaos, we can't hear God, we can't hear him, his Holy Spirit ain't flowing through us, because our heart is not in the right posture and when we can actually take a step back and say, hey, okay, god, lord, jesus, you see what's going on. You know he told us that the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty, through God, to the pulling down the strongholds we have.
Speaker 1:You know, we as Christians first have to understand that this whole thing is spiritual. We have to understand that in Ephesians 6, starting around verse 10, he talks about what we're up against. And if you take a step back and look, he says we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, rulers of darkness of this age, spiritual wickedness in heavenly place. If you look at these things, people read their Bible, they'll see what we're up against. And this thing goes beyond DEI. This is a spiritual issue. But like that scripture, I just read Deuteronomy 10, 19. He says, hey, love the foreigners in your land. And when we are, it's like my heart goes out to that young man that was is a few people, that were two people that I'm aware of, one hairdresser and then the gentleman in DC, but also now they're trying to deport that student from Columbia.
Speaker 1:You, this thing that we're seeing has been going on since the beginning of time. This is racial, this is racism, this is white supremacy, this is white ring conservatism. And it's no tiptoeing or dancing around it and and again. It's just like when, again, they don't want to demonize the promotion of equity, diversity, equity, inclusion, and that's where people I just want people to open their eyes I just say, hey, take a step back.
Speaker 1:If you're a christian, you better be in your Bible right now. You know, as I say this and I'm going to try to end, but when we summarize Matthew 25, when he started talking about the separation of the sheep and the goat, right, he says you know, whatever I'm going to summarize it he says whatever you did or did not do for the least of the brethren, you did it or didn't do it for me. That's Jesus talking here. You know, like if you fed them when they were hungry, you gave them drink when they were thirsty, you visited them in prison, but if you didn't do those things, you did it for me or you didn't do it for me. And this is where you know when my sword is up against some of these churches. I just I call it what it is Because you know they're preaching and teaching. Did you see the Kenneth Copeland thing where he said the devil is black? No, did you see that video? No, go and look it up.
Speaker 2:Oh nice, I taped him anyway so that's good.
Speaker 1:He said the devil is black. And then it's like you know, there's a, and again it's him, the Andrew Womack's and a couple of other people in the world that they support this anti-DEI, they support this stuff, and but yet they say they are men and women of God and so, but God says in his word you can't say you love God and hate people. That's first John 4, 20 and 21.
Speaker 2:You know, I think of that old saying look who's calling the kettle black.
Speaker 1:Well, look who's calling the devil black huh and just go find that clip man. It's kind of disheartening because in my young walk, you know, kenneth Copeland was one of those shows I would watch on Daystar. But I stopped watching Day star because of some some of the nonsense that was going on over there and but yeah, just. I remember seeing him on Trinity, Trinity.
Speaker 2:Broadcasting Network. Yeah, and I didn't like him from the beginning. He was a prosperity preacher. I never liked prosperity preachers. It just it's too easy and I, you know it's one of those things where you know, it's one of those things where you know, honestly, just never sent right and praise God for my wife because she saw through it faster than any of us did. That you know when you're, when you're praying, that you know. Yeah, of course God wants all sorts of wonderful things for us, but they're not necessarily promised to us in this world. Okay, number one and number two, if that's what you're hanging on to, is that God's blessings are dependent upon what he gives me and allows me to have in terms of worldly goods. That's kind of a shallow understanding of what really God is about, because there are much deeper blessings that God will and does give us, because he's not interested in our comfort, he's interested in our character.
Speaker 1:So I think at this time that we're we are in.
Speaker 2:we are in Babylon right now, folks, we're in Babylon.
Speaker 1:We're marching ourselves toward Babylon, right, I mean we're just okay, where's it going?
Speaker 2:Oh, it's that way, president Trump is that way, let's go, you know and that's why I just, I get so like we need Daniels.
Speaker 2:Be a Daniel. Be a Daniel right now, you know. Be someone that stands up and it's going to do what's right, that you know is willing to be thrown into the lion's den and come out the next morning unscathed. And the guy that threw you in there gets thrown in and he becomes an hors d'oeuvre. Be a Daniel. Be a Daniel who walks into a furnace with his three friends and, you know, comes out unscathed, even though when the door to the furnace was open, the guy that opened the door became, you know, smithereens right away. Be a Daniel. Be the person that stands.
Speaker 1:You hit the nail on the head there, brother. It's like with the three Hebrew boys. We need more of that, you know. Of course, it's like, yeah, we're not going to bow to your God, you know, and they did it with all due respect to. It's like, with all due respect, king, we can't do that. And then it's like, hey, you know. And the thing is they were like hey, if our God deliver us, you know which we believe he will. You know, even if he doesn't, we still don't believe to the end. And that's me. They're going to hang on. We need to hang on to what we know is right, to the very end, regardless of what we're being told.
Speaker 1:No, of course, and it's like we're seeing one thing and hearing another, and that's a classic, that's the classic Stump peach towards this administration. I must say one thing, because it's no good in public, but behind, in actuality. This is what I'm doing and people, I can't be the only one in the world seeing this. I just can't be and and so.
Speaker 1:But it's like, when are people going to say you know what your words and actions got to line up? You know, it's like either be hot or be cold, be one way or the other. But you know, you know, stop playing games, and you know so. But either way, man I'm just I'll tell you, we just need to go, need to pray, we need to study, we need to read, we need to educate, we need to be informed and we need to act.
Speaker 1:You know, like last weekend, with the hands off thing Uh huh, it had no, everyone was sticking up for their particular issue, but, you know, a lot of those folks still say they'll still vote for Trump. And that's where it's like OK, you know, you know. And that's where it's like OK, you know, like in all these different states where you know, like the abortion rights legislation would pass on the state, but you'll still vote for the person in office that's going to try to circumvent that law that you just passed. And so it's just really people just being informed, man, and start being brave enough to go against the grain, to go against the neighborhood, to go against the church, to go against the family. You know, of course, what did Jesus say?
Speaker 2:He said hey.
Speaker 1:I came to bring division amongst, you know, the family. That's what it's going to be and I'll pull that scripture up next week. But this thing is not going to be peachy, you know. But I want to be on the right side of history on this one, and I encourage other people to be on the right side of history as well.
Speaker 2:Please, please. Yeah, there's. Maybe this can be a topic for talking to at some point, but I'll tell you the. The thing that I have to keep praying about myself is um, there was a a some sort of a white evangelical community uh, convention congress thing. I forgot I to look it up, but I believe it was in Florida and it was during the election process, during the campaign process, and Trump's standing up before this group of people and saying, oh my Christians, I love my Christians, just vote for me one more time and you won't have to vote anymore. And I don't know if people just like heard it and then didn't hear it or thought, oh, he's just joking, but it makes me think we may not have time until the 2026 elections, folks. It may just be that might be a carrot that's lured to make us think we can wait until then, but be aware that that third term.
Speaker 1:There's a plan that third term Nugget has been dropped. I was just joking, I was just joking.
Speaker 2:I mean, he was on Fox News and interviewed about you know, would you run again in 2028? He said no, no, I don't want to run in 2028. Okay, well, now all of a sudden he's gotten ways that he could do it. I don't know. I mean, maybe I have to ultimately say God, it's in your hands. I want to pray your will be done. Help me see what I need to do in your plan. Help me to understand my part in your plan, not your part in my plan.
Speaker 2:What's Lincoln saying to the generals of both sides of this great conflict of ours? Say that God is on their side. My only prayer is that I am on God's side and that's where we need to be on God's side, whether you believe in God or believe God is love or God is feel free, but God is God. We are not, and we either believe that this is part of the process and we need to play our part with passion and fury and whatever it takes. But, yeah, I pray for you, brother. Pray that we have the courage to stand up and do what's right according to the word yeah, you know we just keep doing what we're doing in the same time in these discussions.
Speaker 1:please know, folks, that this is not just us bantering and going back and forth and trying to just point the finger at someone. We're also trying to create a safe space for a person to come and say hey, ask a question or even feel free to disagree. You know, but just you know, this is a safe space, you know, to come and share your thoughts, and we love to hear them www.4Saukcom F-O-R-S-A-U-Kcom Frame of reference coming together and frame of reference profiles and leadership.
Speaker 2:So it's a one-stop shopping kind of place. If you want to just hear conversations and, like I said, contribute to the conversation, please don't contribute to the hate. There's a lot of hate going on. Rather not have hate. But if you've got serious concerns, questions, things you're afraid of, save space, share those, be vulnerable, be humble in saying I don't have all the answers, because we'll be the first people to admit we don't have all the answers, but we want to talk about the questions. So right, yep, live in a place where you still can do that, so let's keep it that way. Yay, okay, yep, live in a place where you still can do that, so let's keep it that way. Yay, so okay. And with that being said, my name is Raul Francis Desiel Labrache, otherwise known as Chef Labrache.
Speaker 1:What did you say? That was Desiel.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's yeah, that's my family's name, desiel or Delgel, depending on where.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:We were actually delgale de labrash, which apparently means they're called labrash, so I don't know what. What that was all about, something, something. One of my great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great great grandfathers did so. Uh, I wasn't there. Um, anyways, and uh, and you are, sir, I remember you someplace where we met.
Speaker 1:Antoine Hallman Sr, that's right.
Speaker 2:Is that Antoine, with an N at the end of it? Is that that kind of?
Speaker 1:Antoine, antoine, antoine, no long N.
Speaker 2:With a long N You've got the short N Gotcha Until next time. Everyone thanks for listening. Be safe, Be healthy, Amen.
Speaker 1:Amen.
