Frame of Reference - Profiles in Leadership
"Frame of Reference - Profiles in Leadership" and "Frame of Reference - Coming together" are conversational style shows with local, national, and global experts about issues that affect all of us in some way. I’m, at heart, a “theatre person”. I was drawn to theatre in Junior High School and studied it long enough to get a Master of Fine Arts in Stage Direction. It’s the one thing that I’m REALLY passionate about it because as Shakespeare noted, “all the world’s a stage and all the men and women merely players”. Think about the universality of that line for just a moment. Think about the types of “theatre” that play out around us every day in today’s world. The dramatic, the comedic, the absurd, the existential, the gorilla theatre (it’s a thing, look it up) that is pumped into our Smart Phones, TV’s, Radios, and PC’s every minute of every day.
Think about the tremendous forces that “play” upon us - trying to first discover, then channel, feed, nurture, and finally harvest our will power and biases in order to move forward the agendas of leaders we will likely never meet. Think of all these forces (behind the scenes of course) and how they use the basic tools of theatre to work their “magic” on the course of humanity. Emotionally charged content matched to carefully measured and controlled presentations.
With that in mind (and to hopefully counter the more insidious agendas), I bring you the Frame of Reference "Family" of podcasts, where the voices of our local and global leadership can share their passion for why and how they are leaders in their community and in many cases, the world. Real players with real roles in a world of real problems. No special effects, no hidden agenda, just the facts and anecdotes that make a leader.
And at the risk of sounding trite, I sincerely thank my wife Ann and my two children Elisabeth and Josiah for continually teaching me what leadership SHOULD look like.
Frame of Reference - Profiles in Leadership
Rule of Law: Our Last Line of Defense
"What's going on today in our world?" asks Rauel as he and Antowan dive deep into one of the most controversial pieces of legislation currently making waves across America – the so-called "Big Beautiful Bill."
This powerful conversation exposes the troubling psychology behind American politics today, where questioning has become threatening and dissent is immediately silenced. As Antowan points out, "The country has fallen under this dark psychology spell, man, and tactic after tactic are being used on us." The hosts unpack how this legislation effectively takes from the poorest 10% to give to the richest 10%, explaining the far-reaching implications for healthcare, education, and marginalized communities.
The discussion takes a fascinating turn when examining the phenomenon of Americans voting against their own interests – referencing Jonathan Metzl's book "Dying of Whiteness" – and how fear and manipulation drive political decision-making. "People will vote against their own best interest to keep their agenda intact," Antowan explains, highlighting the racial undertones that permeate these political dynamics. The conversation doesn't shy away from examining how privatizing healthcare will lead to more stringent eligibility requirements, higher premiums, and more Americans being denied coverage.
Perhaps most alarming is their analysis of recent constitutional challenges, including the Qatar jet gift and how it potentially violates the Emoluments Clause. "What happens when they start shooting federal judges?" Rauel asks, voicing concerns about the erosion of the rule of law. The hosts make a compelling case that focusing on upholding the rule of law could be a unifying principle for those concerned about America's direction.
Join us for this eye-opening discussion that challenges listeners to come out of their news bubbles and understand how these political decisions affect us all. Subscribe, share your thoughts, and continue the conversation as we work to protect the values that support all Americans.
Thanks for listening. Please check out our website at www.forsauk.com to hear great conversations on topics that need to be talked about. In these times of intense polarization we all need to find time to expand our Frame of Reference.
let's have it, let's have it. That's what I say. Let's have it, just like, like the brother says, let's have it. And you may be wondering what it is. Well, it is coming together. Frame of reference coming together. I'm Raul Labreche and you, young man, are who? Again? Antoine Halvin? Ah yes, I've heard of you before. Aren't you involved with that cutting edge like reality probing and reality revealing show? Frame of reference coming together.
Speaker 2:Aren't you? Oh, yeah, I'm on there. Yeah, I roll with those guys.
Speaker 1:We've been hanging for what? Two years now, something like that Two years now, man. This is getting to be kind of old hat now, so like my old hat, but mine's not. Look at you with a Bears hat. What is going on here, dude? We're recording in Wisconsin and you're up in the Greenberry area. For goodness sakes, man, what are you got? A death wish, or what?
Speaker 2:Oh man, I've been a Bears fan since then, man, but there's some great things coming out of the team this year. We're excited about some of the moves they made. So every year we say this is our year, so this is our year.
Speaker 1:You know the Packers and the Bears have got one of the best like long-term rivalries of any franchises out there, I swear. And it's fun because you know both working class teams you know started out as just you know beer hall brawlers and a lot of that. You know mentality, I think has just continued into the present times. But fun, fun, I wonder. You know I'll pay good money to see Pope Leo with a Bears hat on. I think that would be kind of fun for him to show up at, you know, easter Mass with a Bears hat on. I think that would be kind of fun for him to show up at, you know, easter Mass with a Bears cap.
Speaker 2:That would get some chuckles. Oh yeah, there's a million memes out there right now with him dressed in Bears attire and all these kind of things. So, yeah, I'm not on Instagram. Well, let's see, I am, but I'm not on Instagram and all the other ones. But you know, like my wife, she'll show me some real funny things out there right now.
Speaker 1:So yeah, yeah, yeah, that's. I've been doing a sub stack and they've got lots of, lots of fun stuff there, too. Got to be careful with that stuff, though, too. You know a lot of people saying did you hear what Pope Leo said? And it got, like, you know, transcribed, you know speeches, and you look it up and it's like, yeah, that never happened. I mean, you know they make it so plausible, but it's just indicative of a lot of stuff going on these days, right, you know I heard such and such did blah, blah, blah and really okay, right, okay.
Speaker 1:So. So today, what are we talking about? My man? What's going on today in our world?
Speaker 2:we're gonna talk about that. Uh, the big beautiful bill, man, uh, the big beautiful bill can you even believe that that's a thing?
Speaker 1:I mean that that that they're actually making that the way they're calling it the triple b, right? It's just it's being and everyone's supposed to know the triple b is the big beautiful bill, as I are you what that couple of years ago, I mean back in Reaganomics days? Can you imagine him introducing something and saying we've got a big beautiful bill here? It just sounds stupid.
Speaker 2:I don't get it. It does, man. And the thing is, you know, of course, they create these acronyms and these silly sayings just to keep their base captivated, man, and just keep them engaged with some nonsense. But also, at the same time, it's that illusory truth effect where they just keep repeating things over and over again to make them familiar, even it may not be true, it may be bad, but you keep hearing it enough that you become so familiar with it that you just dismiss it as okay, well, that's what it is. If they keep saying that that's what it is and and that's again. I keep saying man, the, the country has fallen under this, uh, dark psychology spell, man, and just tactic after tactic are being used on us man and it. It just is a shame.
Speaker 1:It strikes me that the most insidious deal that has been going on is the refusal to acknowledge another point of view, that they're. A refusal to acknowledge that a substantial and intelligent argument against something is not a reason to attack it. It's a reason to understand the frame of reference Ooh, somebody should do a show called that the frame of reference from which that question comes, because there is validity. I mean, we say all the time, you know, perspective is 98% reality, right? So my perspective is there's some real problems here. Well, we've gotten into this psychology, this national psychology of the minute. Someone has a question, that's a threat and you need to stamp on those questions immediately and all that does is force people to get in line. So the real, the motivation is not to understand. The motivation is not to make sure that information is correctly disseminated and, you know, conveyed. The motivation is to shut anyone up that might get in the way of passing this thing. Ride over them with a tank if you need to, whatever it takes, just do not let there be any dissension whatsoever. And it's all over the spectrum.
Speaker 1:I mean, you can't even ask a question. You can't even ask a question without it becoming you know. Oh, you're worried about Joe Biden and his cancer. Is that what you're worried about? You're not worried about saving some money? No, not you. You ought to text me going to that's what you're worried about. Huh, you're not worried about saving some money? No, not you, you ought to text me. I mean, it's like did I say any of that? I asked a question. I asked a question. There ought to be room at the table for questions, and if you can't, answer them then that's your attack.
Speaker 1:Then I got to believe that there isn't an answer to the question, or the question is so threatening that you don't want to even give away a little bit of you know leeway. That, oh you know, we hadn't thought about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's just again kind of going along. What you're just saying, like to admit if any dissension, any question, and that's why they're taking, that's why they're attacking education, is so tough, man. Like you know, the Department of Education, they're attacking Harvard, any free-thinking institution. They're going to attack it and of course they're trying to it's education. You dumb down a country. They don't have the capacity to fight or capacity to even question, and it's going to be one opinion, one way of doing things, one rule.
Speaker 2:And again, that's just with this big beautiful bill. That's just a tip of the iceberg of all the insidious things that are really going on, man, and that's why we hope and pray that people just come out of their own news bubble and really see the effect of this thing and what it'll be on other communities, particularly marginalized communities, colors of community, communities of color. You know in the course, but we also got to understand the true motivation behind this bill is to take from the poorest 10 percent and give it to the richest 10 percent, right, yeah, and it's just a shame, man, you're going to give a tax break to the rich and make poor people pay for it. And again, we were talking about that book offline a second ago, dying of Whiteness. Of course I haven't read it yet, but it was in discussion on another show that I watch it yet. But it was just a. It was a in discussion on another uh show that I watch and it just basically.
Speaker 1:People will vote against their own best interest to keep their agenda intact and that's the scary part well, as long as you can get people to think that they're going to get the most important stuff that they care about is going to be protected, they'll vote for anything. Um, you know that that's ultimately what this whole movement is capitalized on is there were a whole bunch of people that were afraid, and they still are afraid, and fear usually turns into anger in most men. I mean, that's just, that's the way we're wired. You know, we get afraid, but then eventually you either, you know, succumb to the fear or you get angry enough to just, you know, screw it. I'm doing something about this, and you know they call that in the battlefield that's called courageousness. Right, you just, it's not that, you know heroes will tell you too. It's not that I was any more heroic. I just got tired of sitting there in the foxhole getting the crap beat out of us and decided I had to do something right. Foxhole, getting the crap beat out of us, and decided I had to do something right.
Speaker 1:So you got this whole group of people that's been marginalized because their jobs have largely been taken away. They've been, you know, moved to other countries where it's cheaper to pay for the workforce to do those jobs. They've been replaced with other industries that can do the job, disposable things instead of cleaning old stuff, you know cheaper cars that come from offshore versus them fixing your old ones or building a big American car here, All of those things which were legitimate concerns. I mean, people were suffering all over the place, but in every single freaking case, the people that were suffering were not just white, they weren't just black, they weren't just anything. They were people that were not haves.
Speaker 1:They were people that did not have power to control what was going on around them, and that power was being wielded by people that did have money, did have the resources, did have boards that they needed to respond to and said hey, we can return 28% more profit if we shut down our plant in Tuscanoma, whatever, and move it to, you know, Puerto Vallarta, Mexico, where the labor is, you know a quarter of what it is here, and we'll be able to make just as good a car, because those people work hard, they need jobs, yada, yada, yada. So it wasn't the Mexicans' fault, right? It wasn't the people down there's fault. It was the people that were looking to make more money and spread more of that wealth to themselves. So not only have more money from all this profit that they've getting over the years now of having manufacturing offshore. But now we know that it's going to take some time to move that stuff back if it ever gets moved back, because that's a whole other talk, right.
Speaker 1:If they get it moved back, but in the meantime we're going to give those guys because they pay 45% of the taxes, so we're going to give them some other breaks too. And they never stopped to think that, guys, the reason they pay 45% of the taxes is because they make so freaking much money that that's that's what that turns out into that they make so much more than 90% of the rest of us that, yeah, they pay 45% because they've got. Of all the money that's generated, they got 95% of it. So figure out the math. It's just such a scary situation Like you say, dying of whiteness, because we're teaching people to not ask questions. We're just getting them pissed off about things that we know they're pissed off about already and getting them all agitated so they won't think about oh, wait a minute, wait a minute. That's not really true. I don't know. Wait a minute. I what about this order? Oh, don't ask any questions about that. We're helping you. Damn it, shut up so well.
Speaker 2:You know, when it comes to those jobs, man uh, it's almost like they're never going to come back. Like you said, man uh, just uh. You know, of course, the profit margins are so great on labor in other countries that they're not going to come back. At the same time, you know, it's like again a good portion of America has voted against their own best interests, like with this big beautiful bill, for instance. Again you're taking money from the least and giving it to the most, and the sad part of it is, you know, at the end of the day, you know these jobs are not coming back, let's just be. But at the same time, like okay, things that have been put in place are being rolled back. You know the inflation reduction act. You know they're rolling all those things back. The chips act they're taking money from all those things that were put in place to try to bring some form of manufacturing back to the United States.
Speaker 2:This current administration is clipping it at the kneecaps and it's funny like we were talking about this prior, like during the election season. You know, back in early November, or so you know they were sitting. You know, you know, back in early November, or so you know they were sitting. You know they had this town hall in a place that is in Michigan, a place that the CHIPS Act built. People were saying they don't see it, and it's like two of the three, three out of two, two out of the three young men that stood up and spoke were like yeah, I just bought a house because of this factory that was just built here. And it's like do you know who built it? Do you know how that money came to your community? But yet, at the same time, they voted against their own best interests and the thing is, those plants are probably going to close. We pray that they don't, but those jobs are going to be taken away because of what this administration is dying to do, which is give money to the richest people in the country.
Speaker 2:Here and again, it's like the impact on all of us man is going to just, we got people in Texas dying to measles man, yeah, you know we get. You know, of course, like, hospitals are closing all over the place, you know. And then, of course, it's going to be, I think, this conference. I can't remember where I heard it, but it was like there was a conversation about, you know, like medical student enrollment. No, that's down. You know, it's like people are like, generally want to be doctors, are like, well, I don't know, you know.
Speaker 2:And of course, when we talk about you know, with this thing, with cutting health care and cutting insurances and all these different things, it's going to just be a less healthy America, man. It's going to. Of course, this is going to hurt us more than it helps us, you know. And of course the other side knows this, man. You know they've done the numbers, they've ran the numbers. You know it's going to make a less healthy workforce. It's going to decrease productivity, man. It's going to rise health care costs, man, and people are just still not getting this. Man. This is the sad part. It's going to be a lot of places again, with hospitals and healthcare providers. They're going to start to close or they're going to be turning people away because, hey, your insurance is inadequate or is not covered. And then, of course, just thinking about these people with pre-existing illnesses, you know, diabetes, etc. You know we're in a tough space and I just hope people's eyes are open to see that we really need to stand up against this thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and when we realize it, will it be too late? You know it's scary to think about, but you know we keep talking about. You know it's scary to think about, but you know we keep talking about. You know well, the 2026 elections, that'll turn things around. It's like you really think we got that long, huh? What's your plan B or C or D? Because I'm not convinced that. I don't know. I don't know, you know. It strikes me that when you're doing things as outlandish as what are being done right now, you're not worried about getting reelected. You're, you're, I don't know. People behave that way when they've just gotten a cancer diagnosis, you know. When you know you've got six months to live, you know, you figure what the hell they're not having an election in 2026.
Speaker 2:if it's up to them, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:They're trying to lock this thing down with the SAVE Act. What we were talking about a couple weeks ago, the SAVE Act, you know, of course you're asking for all these additional pieces of identification to be eligible to vote and then, of course, in the process, in the meanwhile, they are actually purging voter scrolls all over the country. A lot of people have lost their ability to vote and don't even know it, and it's just again all these little things that are going again. What we're talking about?
Speaker 2:this bill, big, better, big, beautiful bill bill it's just the tip of what's really going on underneath, man. And then, of course, you know, and, yes, when we talk about the haves and have nots, you know, just, from my eyes, man, this is all racial. You know, it's all racial, it it? To me, it boils down to race. I know, of course, no, you can say it's the have and have nots, but it's about race, it's about white supremacy and, like we were saying, like even people that don't necessarily agree with the white supremacy part, they're still going to fall in line with the, with the marching orders of the administration, even if it hurts them, and that's the scary part. So it's like no reasoning with some of these people and it's like can't you see what this is going to do? You know, like we're talking all children, all older adults, all people with disabilities are going to be the most affected by this thing. When we're talking about cutting Medicaid or SNAP, you know people in nursing homes, people that need personal care, and it just goes. It's just just. That goes beyond race. Yeah, when people voted for this administration, they're still saying they still support him. And again, it's just. It's just like you're talking to a wall when you're talking with some of these things. It's just, it's like you're talking to a wall when you're talking with some of these things, but it's like we just have to keep sounding the alarm man. We have to keep speaking out and talking about what these things actually mean and when people hopefully they'll actually realize the impact on everybody, not just a group of people like they thought it would. You know, of course, uh, it's, uh, it's going to affect us all in the long run. You know, of course.
Speaker 2:And cause, at the end of the day, you know, with this administration, with the, with the threat of cutting the social security, with the threat of cutting medicaid, they're trying to privatize all these things again so the upper rich half can kind of portion and ration out what they think the rest of us should have and a lot of people don't get, but they're in the same boat as us. Yeah, if you don't make x amount of dollars, you're in this boat, and then that's why you see people rising up. You know certain groups of people starting to rise up. Well, what about? Hey, what about that? And it's like you voted for it, right? You know, it's like uh, you know roland martin, he has this shirt F-A-F-O, and just blink around and find out. You know, yeah, yeah, and you know F-O.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I've looked up your book Dying of Whiteness. It's by a man named Jonathan Metzl. He's a doctor and the premise of it is in election after election, conservative white Americans have embraced politicians who pledged to make their lives great again. But as physician Jonathan M Metzl shows in Dying of Whiteness, the policies that result actually place white Americans at ever greater risk of sickness and death. Interviewing a range of everyday Americans, metzl examines how racial resentment has fueled program laws in Missouri, resistance to the Affordable Care Act in Tennessee and cuts to schools and social services in Kansas. He shows these policies' costs increasing deaths by gun suicide, falling life expectancies and rising dropout rates.
Speaker 1:Well, now doesn't that sound like a wonderful world to live in. So it is true that we are killing ourselves, we're allowing. I don't understand. Help me understand how you can believe that you are a Christian and you have conveniently forgotten that that which you do unto the least of these, you do unto me as well. How do you cognitively undissonate the dissonance that occurs from living a life that says you know, I am pro-life, pro-life, pro-life, but screw you once you're born. You know, Exactly, Screw you. I mean, you know I will protect that baby's right to be born until the day I die.
Speaker 2:Or we want to give certain groups of women $5,000 to have a baby.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or $1,000 to put into their accounts. You know, once they're born right, you're going to get a $1,000 rebate and up to $5,000, right for a savings account. You know it's interesting because you know, whenever that stuff is done, it's always huh, wow, that's a really good idea. And then you start to peel back the curtain and go, huh, and put that curtain down. Boy, what are you doing? It's like when you lift up the lady's skirt to don't. What's it going to take? What's it going to take for us to wake up and say wait a minute, wait a minute.
Speaker 1:Privatizing healthcare means the only way you privatize something is if somebody knows they can make money on it. You don't privatize something that is a losing proposition. Nobody's going to invest in it. You're not going to get a board to support it. It ain't going to happen. So follow the money right. If he really is serious about privatizing it, you're exactly right. It's going to become a system where they're going to cut costs.
Speaker 1:You don't hire. You know if you're privatizing anything, you don't hire a bunch of people to make life easier for the single person that's working. You hire exactly as many as you need to get the job done and then you squeeze that person as much as you can to get as much work out of them as possible so that the bottom line is better. You can go to the boardrooms at the end of the year and say, gentlemen, we thought we were going to make $6 billion, but through some efficiencies and screwing a whole bunch of people, we made $8 billion. So thank you very much.
Speaker 1:I'll take my bonus now. Appreciate talking with you again. You know, I mean it's just and, yeah, it is racist, because these folks that have been lied to and lied to themselves for so long are being lied to by a bunch of really important white men that they think are just. You know, look at how successful that guy is. He must be really brilliant. Yeah, no, he just knows how to screw people really well. Um, you know, because he went to the you know, whites only club of screw everybody around you as much as possible so that you come out on top.
Speaker 2:It's just a class you have to take.
Speaker 2:Because people are really just the eyes have to be opened. You know, the veil has to be torn on these just really the impact on it all. You know, of course, like you're saying, the provocation of it. You know, of course, who's going to benefit Insurance companies. You know, if you cut Medicaid and those things, insurance companies are going to benefit because again, they're going to pick and choose who they choose to cover.
Speaker 2:Of course, premiums are going to go up through the roof on all, and then, of course, there's going to be a lot of people turned away and then there's going to just be they're going to make the majority of the money by doing less work. They're going to make more money doing less work. Well, of course. And then, of course, even when it comes to prescriptions, you know, oh, my goodness, you know, remember when insulin? You know they got it down to $35? Yeah, Now, what are you going to do? You're going to be back to paying a good portion of your fixed income just for a prescription, and these are the things that people voted for, you know. And, of course, when we start talking about all these things, the whole economy at large. Again we got people dying of something that was eradicated forever ago measles, you know. Then you put a guy that, a vaccine denier or I don't know what, that Robert F, I don't know what to call them anymore.
Speaker 1:Anti vaxxers yeah.
Speaker 2:Him. I just guess you just call him crazy, I mean brain.
Speaker 2:So I don't know if you saw the picture of him swimming in that DC Creek. You know where it's like. You know it's like all these living organisms that make people sick. He's swimming in that dc creek. You know where it's like, uh, you know it's like all these living organisms that uh make people sick. He's swimming in it and that's the person that is uh giving us uh health care advice. And but, yeah, it's like again, when it comes to these things, no, insurance companies, they're going to benefit the most. Um, all these uh public health care programs, they're going to go away. And, of course, again, remember how people still have not a lot of people have not been able to differentiate Obamacare from the Affordable Care Act. They don't realize it's the same thing and we're still stuck there, you know, and it's like just shifting people from public to private insurance is going to just lead to so much more complexities in this thing. Man, they're going to be more stringent on eligibility. There's going to be, you know, just, it's going to be more difficult for people to access affordable health care, and that's where the country is going to get sick.
Speaker 2:My wife checked this book out of the library years ago and I want to. I can't remember, but I was like I jokingly said that she got us on the list, but it was like how to destroy a country from within. It was talking about attacking the health care system, attacking the education system. You know, like we take away a person's ability to think, you know, and it's like you get it just, and it was just all these list of things and it's like wow, I'm starting to see these things live and present. And you know, but we knew it was coming with Project 2025. We knew it was coming. A lot of people was like, oh no, they ain't finna do that. But lo and behold, here we are.
Speaker 1:Yeah right, you know, I had this thought and it strikes me that so much of this stuff is being done to increase the likelihood. There's a movie called Straw Dogs years ago it was made by Sam Peckinpah and really violent film has. Probably I don't know enough, I haven't seen enough movies but it has one of the most violent rape scenes in any movie and Peckinpah took a lot of grief over that. But he wanted to show how ugly rape really was. But the point of the rape was to continue to push the central character who was played by Dustin Hoffman. And the straw dog is a term that's used, I guess, in Ireland. I had not heard of it before then, but apparently you put a dog on a leash, you keep taunting it and eventually it will turn into just an insanely attack-everything dog.
Speaker 1:And Dustin Hoffman is that straw dog. Right, he starts out as just this wonderful intellectual man who loves. They've moved to the Irish countryside, it's a beautiful place, His wife is from there and you know, lo and behold, there are some old, old, you know good old boy, Ireland guys that see her and she's done well for herself by marrying this American, Dustin Hoffman, and they're still, you know, working class guys, whatnot. She is not smart and taunts them and she ends up being the one that's raped by a guy that she had relationships with when she was younger. And he takes her right. And not only does he take her, but then his brother, who's waiting in there, takes her too, and it's just like fuck around, find out. Right here it is, in you know living color.
Speaker 1:My point in all of this is it strikes me that all of this I can say it because I'm not the reverend with the sole intent of getting poor people and black people, people of color, so pissed off that they revolt, that they start protesting in the streets in a big way. And this time he won't have any generals saying you can't go out there and shoot them all. Well, can't we just shoot them in the legs? Recorded conversation, Can't we just shoot them in the legs? And General Miley is like no, you can't do that on US citizens. So there won't be anybody this time to stop the bloodshed. It won't be the National Guard coming to rescue people, it will be the National Guard coming to eradicate people. And I don't you know people can, I guess, get all over me for even suggesting that that would be the end game. But it makes sense that you just keep pushing and pushing, and pushing.
Speaker 1:And even the nicest, calmest, most warm and fuzzy, I think the dog that they show in the example of this, the beginning of the movie, is like a schnauzer. You know this cute little Scottish schnauzer or Scottish terrier or whatnot. They turn him into just a nasty, nasty dog and I worry what's the solution to keep them from winning that end game that way? Because I've noticed, even with, like, the protests that have been going on around area for you know, hands off, that it's been pretty white, which I've been good with because I don't want there to be any, you know, thing of, oh, it's a black people, blah, blah, blah. If it's white people, it's hard to have that argument right. So, but you know, at what point do you think the black community is just going to say fuck this man, fuck this, fuck you, I don't care anymore, this is fucking insane, we're not fucking putting up with this anymore. And, you know, run right into the machine gun this anymore.
Speaker 2:And, you know, run right into the, the machine gun, well, and that's uh, and again that is uh. That is a kind of the end game of the course that goes back a few years ago when they actually started, uh, you know, lightening all these, uh, all the gun legislation. They're trying to make it easier and easier for people to carry guns, you know, especially in those southern states, because remember, they were talking about a new civil war. And of course, uh, and then it's like uh, it was uh on the news, uh, a white gentleman. I can't remember what state he was in, but he was like when do we get to start shooting people? And it's like whoa montana, you know. And it's yeah, and it's like when do we? It's like whoa, and then, but, you know, again it's like yeah, that's what, that's what this, uh. That's why we say man, no, it's uh, it's this is all racial. In my eyes, it's all racial. Of course, you're going to marginalize people and then you're going to create laws against that people, then you're going to agitate that people and then you're going to execute that law, and then, of course, yes, we're just praying that it doesn't lead to bloodshed, but we're just praying that we take the proper actions and we continue to.
Speaker 2:We've got to reach out to these elected officials, man. We got to reach out to these senators and representatives and express our opposition to these proposed bills and laws that they're trying to set. And we got to participate in some form of advocacy, you know. We got to get involved and we got to join organizations and campaigns that are looking to protect those social safety nets. And then, of course, again going back to what we've been talking about since the beginning, brother, it's just like people need to be learned, they need to get informed, they need to vote. And of course, again because this thing is again talking about the big beautiful bill it's again talking about the big beautiful bill. There's the SAVE Act underneath this that's again trying to marginalize the black vote and the brown vote. There's environmental racism, structural racism, there's economic racism. It's all these different things, man.
Speaker 2:I know we say the haves and have-nots, but in my eyes it's starting to become more and more racial, because again, anything that supports anything black or brown is being taken away. And then again people are starting to say, well, I got caught up in the same fishnet. And now it's like you hear a little bit of a pushback, but at the same time they'll still vote for the same person. And that's where, you know, again, we just have to get more involved, we have to start sticking up. You know, in the course and this, even though, like say, in some areas you got a good mix of people, the problems still exist. But I do my concern is also for those areas where they like, say, the Louisianas, the Mississippis, the Tennessees, where there are predominantly black communities that are being subject to these cancer causing companies.
Speaker 2:And you know, it's just so much going on beyond what we see. And that's where we're just trying to get people to open their eyes, come out of their news bubble and really just start to say, hey, this is not right. Again, you know it's, we're not. No, I'm not an end times preacher, but the Bible says there'll be wars and rumors of wars. You know, brother against brother, sister against brother, absolutely. And there's so many different things and we're seeing them play out, and so we just have to pray, but in the meantime, man just praying that the scales are coming off people's eyes, because the impact of these things don't just affect one group of people, they affect us all.
Speaker 1:If it were possible in those end days, even the elect would be deceived.
Speaker 2:They are being deceived because you got some prominent preachers man are actually voting for this guy and actually supporting this guy. You know and again, you know, and that's where you know. Of course, as a pastor, you know, of course some of my gripes have been with the church because a lot of people say where is the church in all of this? You know, of course, some of my gripes have been with the church because a lot of people say where is the church in all of this? Of course, I used to ask years ago, like when I was a part of a group in the Bear Bore. I was like, hey, are y'all preaching on race? And, of course, are y'all preaching on this? Because this is what needs to be talked about. Are y'all preaching on this? Because, again, now you have a lot of churches in areas they're not preaching. They're not even preaching Jesus anymore. They're. You know, trump is the golden calf and that's all they're preaching is like church is now a rally and rally in Jesus.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes, and no, cause he said hey, uh, you know, people honor them with their mouths, but their hearts are far from them. You know, and it's a brother. You know we are praying because, uh, we're in a, we're in a, we're in a tough space and we just know, when we talk about, you know, republican and democrat, you know, of course, no, we, you and I, we both agree and disagree on both sides of the fence. But you know, and again, it's like when we talk about one group, like we were talking about you know, earlier, it like, you know, on the Republican side of things, in my eyes it's all about white supremacy.
Speaker 2:Even those that don't necessarily agree with it, they are falling in line. And so, like on the left side, we've got to have one goal, one point of view that we all line up behind. And I would say, hey, let's line up behind the law, let's line up behind. And I would say, hey, let's line up behind the law, let's line up behind keeping that. And because I know, like there's all this bickering underneath this big tent and nothing's getting done and you're just uh, letting people, we're basically being walked all over, you know, again, with all these uh bills that are being thrown up and passed. And of course we're going to see man, we're going to see it's hard to not feel like it's pointless.
Speaker 1:You know which is exactly the emotional state, I think.
Speaker 2:And that's what they're trying. That's the intent. Remember, steve Bannon said that he's like every day, throw out three different things Keep them scattering, keep them off balance. Keep them off balance, keep them off keel, have them chasing their tails in a circle while we're getting one thing. If we can get one thing through a day, they've won. And they're doing, they're executing that to a t. And, of course, again, when it comes to a lot of the things that are going on, a lot of people don't care about. Yes, uh, medicaid right now. No, uh, this, uh, big, beautiful bill. It's surprisingly that majority of of Americans don't care that you're going to take money from poor people and give it to rich people. It's almost like they don't care.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Well, it's like I think people are so used to being screwed, you know, like, okay, so they're screwing me. Yeah, so what? As long as I got my beer, as long as I got my hamburger, as long as I got my reality TV show that I can watch, I mean, we've gotten, you know, such a significant part of the nation has been kind of lulled into this Pied Piper state that we're, you know, just following the Pied Piper wherever you know and he can lead us right off a cliff and we'll just keep following because that tune is awful nice, that flute sounds awful good, you know, kind of thing. Yeah, I mean, it's just the only thing that gets me through most days is thinking well, god, you got a plan. Just help me see what your plan for me is in it, because to think it's going to be won by human hands and not by spiritual swords, I think that's where the exhaustion comes in.
Speaker 1:And thankfully, I've seen a lot of different types in this movement. I don't see a lot of zealots, you know. I see a lot of, you know, people that you know appear to just be strong. You know, there's a lot of strong men in this movement. You know a lot of strong women that are, you know, really fighting for justice and truth and yada, yada, yada. But I don't see many zealots, which I don't see that righteousness thing coming through very often anymore. It's more petulance than it is righteousness. So I'm waiting for that righteous voice that comes out and is willing to challenge the, that righteous voice that comes out and is willing to challenge the status quo with respectfulness and just laser sharp precision of not getting caught up. You know, it'd be like the West Wing type of thing. You know where Aaron Sorkin can just write some beautiful, beautiful speeches that you know if, if there are people in the world that can have command of the facts and the data as well as those characters do, and to argue against stupidity on any front. You know you can. It's like you know spock taking the test to get him back to being spock, and in star trek, what is it? Voyage, voyage, home, and he's just answering like questions from three different computers at the same time and he's just, you know, all over the place with physics questions and philosophy questions and you know, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
Speaker 1:I'd like to have those kinds of people on a team that can just, you know, stupid question or stupid point comes up and they've got the knowledge and the things in their head enough to say okay, on article 16.4 of this bill, you state blah, blah, blah. What does that mean to you? Well, as we said before no, no, no. I asked you direct. What does that mean to you? No, no, no, I asked you. What does that mean to you? If we have to take the whole 15 minutes that I have to talk with you, I am going to get a straight answer from you on that one thing. So I don't care who you've been coached by here that said just keep obfuscating, keep deflecting, keep deflecting, keep bouncing, keep bouncing, keep bouncing. I'm not going to let you do that. I'm going to tell you right here, right now bitch, you aren't going to answer this question, so you want to keep dancing with me? I'm okay with dancing this question? So you want to keep dancing with me? I'm okay with dancing, but you're going to answer this question.
Speaker 2:And that's where you know, again, it's like when we're talking about, you know, our spirituality, man, and being men, men of God, and there's women, mighty women of God out there.
Speaker 2:You know, of course we have to fight, you're exactly right. You know a person that get that angelic wisdom, that can talk to every situation in a way that is not emotional, and of course, that's kind of my feel right there. It's like, you know, it's like again, it's like when somebody says something super stupid, it's like what is wrong with you? And then, of course, but at the same time, it's like, you know, it's like so you're trying to fight with the right heart's posture Because, again, we can't, you know, repay evil with evil but overcome evil with good, and of course, we can be just as loud, but we just got to keep the right heart's posture. And, yes, and there's those people like you're saying, brother, there's people out there that can do exactly what you're asking, but you know, of course they are afraid, you know, they know all they got to do is mention your name and then you're going to get a bombarded with a bunch of hate mail and people, but no one past the house, honking and all those kinds of things, and and, and it's like the intimidate again, white supremacy, man, the intimidation of it all, uh, the voter suppression, part of it all, uh, all the bills and things that are being passed to marginalize, to minimalize, uh, to basically uh, keep, you know, the system, systemic and systematic issues at bay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it is just like, again, man, we, the world, is waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God. Man, and you know, of course the sons of God are those that are going to tell the truth, regardless of the consequence to us. You know, and that's that's what we are. And so, and when we, we, I'll tell the truth. But, like you said, man, just being able to know is a. I'm paraphrasing this scripture, but it says like don't debate with a fool, because people from afar won't know who the fool is. And so it's like we have to, we can't get into foolish debate, but at the same time you don't want to let this lie go on anymore, you know, and, like you said, if we don't have the intellect or the eloquency of speech to combat that, you know, that's a kind of puts us right on level with them. And so it's like man, I totally agree, brother. And so it's like man. I totally agree, brother.
Speaker 1:It's like that's why, when we were talking earlier, you know, it's like having some young people in the camp that we haven't really defined what's the lay down. Throw yourself on a mine, whatever issue that needs to be. That's the battle. That is the battle that we're going to fight and not get thrown off. You know the one thing, because I think you're right there are people that just say these stupid things and it's like a distraction and you have to be able to just say hey, you know what? I'm sorry? That's a lie on a whole bunch of different levels, but I don't have time for that right now. Here you do it. After we get done, please come find me and I'll explain to you why. No, I'm sorry, Really, that is just. There's so many things wrong with that argument and I apologize that you've been brought into believing that that's true, but it's not. So let's talk about that later. I will make time for you. After this thing is done, we will talk as long as you need to talk, but we're not talking about that right now.
Speaker 2:Exactly, ben. That's why I was saying, like you know how the other party, they got their marching orders and from my eyes it's white supremacy. And if Democrats can just say, you know what we're going to, the rule of law, let's just stay right there. Rule of law, stay right there, because I mean, like these pardons that just came out, man. You know, larry Hoover was in jail since before I was born. You know, well-known Chicago gangster. He got his sentence commuted but of course now it's still a state issue. But they're going to find a way to finagle him out. They let a couple of rappers out and again it's all manipulation and it's just. You know, people are still falling for the same thing. You know, is he the guy that was?
Speaker 1:a Chicago gang. He started a Chicago gang.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, larry Hoover. Back in the 60s man, that's when I was a kid His name was still in the streets because he was still running things. He got even behind, even in prison man in 1997. He was convicted of running a mass network, even from behind bars, but Trump commuted his sentence, you know again. So is he just?
Speaker 1:more useful on this side than he is in there. I mean in terms of stirring up, just getting more black people in trouble and getting them put in jail.
Speaker 2:He's going to catch a few I hate to use this word. He's going to catch a few people, a few unlearned people. He's going to catch them, yeah, because again, like again with with the genre or the group of people that he know the rappers, the gang leader and another person they all fit into this cultural group, right, or this particular group of people. And so, like he's gonna, he's again 2026, going after this. You're gonna catch a small group of people and then, of course, they're gonna be, they're gonna.
Speaker 2:You know FAFO, just like these black MAGA people learn hey, we won, we won. And then the white guy says all we wanted was your vote, yeah. And then the black guy gets on social media and starts I was rejected by Megan after I voted for him. It's like, what did you expect? But yeah, man, with everything that's going on, man, it's just, you know we have to stay prayerful, but we also have to keep speaking. You know, like this platform, man, we're doing just that and I know that eventually we will grab the steam that is needed and uh, do you think it is rule of law?
Speaker 1:is that the thing we should just focus on? Rule of law, maintain right now.
Speaker 2:Right now, yeah, because if we actually focus on the rule of law, a lot of these things will actually all these um executive orders that are just, again, distractions they can actually be cast down right away and we can keep moving Because, again, technically, a convicted felon cannot serve as president right, and so a lot of the things that he's doing is illegal. If we can just focus on the rule of law and when we focus on the rule of law, even though the law isn't perfect, it is what's in place right now until we can get the right people in, even though the law isn't perfect, it is what's in place right now until we can get the right people in there to do the right things with it. And of course, there's a lot of holes that need to be patched up within the law. But of course, again with these executive orders, like one ACLU lawyer said, unfortunately we can't sue or combat everything, because we have a real weak chance of winning and if we give them the win, we set a precedence in that particular thing, meaning that if this comes up again, there's precedent that it was ruled in another person's another favor. You know what I mean? Right, and so that's what it's like it's a lot of things that are going. So, for me, just let's focus on the law right now, the law, the rule of law, because I mean I think that'll clean up a lot of things that are going on. So, for me, just let's focus on the law right now, the law, the rule of law, because I mean, I think that'll clean up a lot of things. I mean because, again, trump taking a you know a jet from Qatar they are.
Speaker 2:Remember I don't know what, his net when he started running for president in 2000,. What was it? 16, 16, yeah, 15. He had a net worth of less than 2 billion. Uh, the last I heard he is uh approaching that, uh, the 30, 40 billion mark now. He had less than 2 billion dollar net worth, but now again he's a prophet of the presidency man and again, a lot of the things that he's doing. They're so blatant, but yet no one will stand up to him, particularly on that other side, because right now they have the votes in the House and in the Senate to stop him, but they won't.
Speaker 1:So that whole thing. I love this because talk about rule of law the whole qatar um gift deal, okay, and let's remember, the gift is to the united states of america until 2026, at which point it will be a gift to the trump national whatever memorial library, which then means he can use it for whatever he wants, okay. So, anyways, there's a thing called the emoluments Clause, which is Article 1, section 9, paragraph 8 of that US Constitution thing. I've heard about it a couple of times lately. That generally prohibits federal office holders from receiving any gift, payment or other thing of value from a foreign state or its rulers, officers or representatives. It's also called the Foreign Emoluments Clause. It affects the executive branch.
Speaker 1:So the guys that you know wrote this constitution, as much as they were stupid about what three-fifths of a person meant, which you know hello, you can look up that if you don't know what we're talking about. But that when I thought, heard I as a white guy I didn't know that that was even in our constitution, and I'm like holy crap, what the hell were they thinking? And now I know what they were thinking too. Anyways, the emoluments clause is there because of exactly what this is doing. Have you seen the pictures of this jet, have you seen? It is called a palace on wings okay, a palace in the air, and it is. It's got so many doodads and fancy marble whatever's and he's so happy because they gifted this. I'm damn right, I'm gonna keep it damn right. We should say thank you, oh okay. Yeah, a country that has had the kinds of affluence as well as the interactions that Qatar has, we're going to keep a gift from that like that. And they're saying people that if there was anything close to that under a Democratic president, anything close to that would have been received. It would have just been like so irate.
Speaker 1:But again, this is rule of law, not the craziness of the thing. The atrocity is so far outside, beyond the pale, that it's like what you know. We are exhausted from just the. What crazy ass shit did he do today? You know wow, isn't that wow? But wait a minute, what about the rule of law? Where are we at with the rule of law? Where are we at?
Speaker 1:Because right now, they're being extremely effective at wearing down the judicial branch. There's so much being done and so many cases that are flooding the judicial system with the atrocities and the stupidity and the just audaciousness of some of the absurdity and sanity of some of the stuff that's happening. It's just wearing out that system. And then, as those people are worn out, what do you do? You keep battering them, right.
Speaker 1:So now you're getting all of these attacks on the liberal judges. Don't forget about the fact that half of them are appointed More than half of them, I think, if you look at the numbers were appointed by people like Reagan or Bush, or goodness gracious. They're not exactly people coming from a staunch liberal background, but he's attacking them on those grounds. He's attacking them as being they are going to keep it from making America safe again. They're going to make it so I can't do what I promised to do for you people.
Speaker 1:They're making the judges the enemies and if they're successful at doing that with enough people, then there will be no rule of law, because it is a judge's responsibility. That's what a judge does is they enforce and interpret and continue to preserve the rule of law. You don't go into a court of law and pull the shit that you can pull on the streets, because you know that in a court, there are things like contempt. In a court, you can be prosecuted for lying about things In a court, you have to be able to prove that what you say is what happened.
Speaker 2:Right, there is no fiddle-ly-fahoddley-foodly-fah going on where you can just say well, that's a mean thing that he said whatever, wait, because you know, like, in just even just if the law was just simply being upheld to its highest best regard right now, a lot of the lawsuits, a lot of the things that are going on, like you said, on like you said, but you know, people will be getting being held in contempt, you know, of course, and then it's like, uh, when these people go before, uh, these, uh, in these congressional hearings and things like that, it's amazing how it's like they'll say the very thing in front of a camera, but they will not say it under oath, and those kind of things have to be called out, and it's like, hey, you just got out there in front of a camera and said this but why can't you say it now? And just something simple as that, just, uh, pointing those things out. But again, you know, like, you're saying, like the, you know they uh demonize the judges for calling out these things and, of course, uh, for executing, for you know, basically, for following the law. And again, you, you blabber all this stuff out in the media, but in a courtroom you won't say that, and then again, these things are just being you know. Then, of course, it keeps that base up broad.
Speaker 2:They're really fighting for us, they're really doing this and that, and the other is like no, they're not. You know, it's just this is a lot of it's a lot of stage play. This is a lot of stage play. It's theatrics.
Speaker 1:Well, what happens when they start shooting federal judges. Somebody gets all whipped up into a lather and goes and shoots a couple federal judges because they're obviously getting in the way of my man, trump, and they need to go. They're wicked, wicked judges and we need to get rid of these wicked liberal, libertard judges or whatever, and that we need to get rid of these wicked liberal, libertard judges or whatever. You know not only that frothing up, but the other thing that they've done that's insidiously. I mean, these are smart people, but appointing somebody like Pam Bondi as the attorney general.
Speaker 1:You know, or you know somebody that is going to take our marching orders from the president, which is not what an attorney general is supposed to do. They're supposed to take their marching orders from the Department of Justice, ie the judicial branch of the government. So even if a judicial branch determines that somebody has committed a criminal offense, that they are held in contempt, that they need to go to jail, like Steve Bannon did, right, who are they going to get to enforce that right now? Do you think Pam Bondi is going to carry out an order from the Supreme Court or a federal judge? You think she's going to do that? That's going to be a real interesting constitutional crisis when that moment comes, because it's coming.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And, like you said, it's not an if but it's a when, and that's what. Are we going to be ready for that? And it's like how many people are going to stand up for the law? And again, just picking a side. You know, when we talk about each side got its own marching orders. Instead of you know, we got to find one thing to get behind and fight for it. And, just like they got one thing, even if a lot of them don't disagree, agree with it, they're fighting for that one thing. And so that's where we are, brother, and but you know, just hope people just again come out of their news bubbles and see how Everything that's been going on is affecting us all as a country and is our health, our health, our finances, our relationships, you know, communities everything is being affected by these divisions, man, and we're in a.
Speaker 2:I just thank God that I'm a Christian, you know.
Speaker 2:I thank God that he has given me a different lens to look through and, like we were saying, it's like, you know, of course, being able to talk to these things without emotion uh, I'm getting better at it, but at the same time, it's like we have to fight these things in the right heart's posture and that's where you know we gotta get to even more so because, again, you know when the enemy can bring our heart out of the right posture we've actually fallen even a step below the person that's doing the nonsense, because we've stepped beneath them.
Speaker 2:And so just, uh, you know, just getting, you know, starting with the church, just getting people, you know back to Jesus saying, hey, you know our Jesus doesn't climb walls and bust out windows. I know the Bible clearly tells us you can't say you love God and hate people. You know unbalanced skills are an abomination to the Lord. The Lord, he hates six things he hates, and the seventh is an abomination to him. It's like people they cherry-pick scripture to fit what they want it to fit. But it's like you're going to either follow the whole Bible or none of it.
Speaker 1:And there's got to be room at the table for guys with Bears hats and Star Trek hats, and that's as Walter Cronkite used to say, and that's the way it is on May 31st 2025 in these United States of America. So thanks, folks, thanks, united States of America. So, folks, thanks. I'm Raul LaBrush and this guy here, the fun man that I talk with on this show, you are Antoine Hallman. Antoine Hallman Sr. Aren't you, antoine?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm Sr. However, I've just been going back to saying Antoine Hallman.
Speaker 1:You're just plain old Antoine Hallman Either or Okay, either. Or. You're just plain old Antoine Holman Either or Okay, either or so could we build a show of that. It's all Russian. Plain old Antoine Holman.
Speaker 2:Well, my speech is very plain and that's why people it's like they expect something super deep and it's like nope. Let's see how simple this is. And you know, the Bible says the power of the Holy Ghost can only operate in peace, and so when we are, you know, minds free of clutter, his power can operate.
Speaker 1:Amen, all right folks, thanks for listening. So much tuning in here on Frame of Reference coming together and I hope you'll tune in again next time and you'll co-find 5,000 or five or six or 10,000 of your friends and have them listen to you, because we'd sure like to have you hear the show and comment at www.4FORSalkcom. All right, take care everybody. Bye y'all, thank you.
