Tenacious

A goofy Star Trek warm-up turns into something unexpectedly human when Scott Scoble opens up about the moments that shaped him. Scott runs Moo TV, a live concert video production company trusted on major tours, and he’s also the author of Tenacious. Behind the LED walls and camera rigs is a story about grief, pressure, and what it takes to keep showing up when you’re not okay.

We talk about the line between pain that teaches and pain that becomes baggage. Scott shares how survivor’s guilt hid in plain sight after the violent loss of a mentor and business partner, and how EMDR therapy helped him name it and finally let the guilt go without erasing the love. We also dig into PTSD, what it feels like in real life, and why “take your own medicine” can be the most honest kind of leadership advice.

The conversation goes further into meaning-making: near-death experiences, Eben Alexander’s Proof of Heaven, and Scott’s cautious but powerful experiences with psychedelic-assisted therapy, including a 5-MeO DMT story he describes as ego-death followed by overwhelming love. It’s not presented as a shortcut or a party trick, but as structured work with care, boundaries, and real reflection.

Finally, we zoom back out to the craft and the business: what it takes to build massive 4K touring video shows, why the crowd matters more than the money, how COVID nearly crushed live events, and what helped Moo TV stay connected to its people. If you’ve been stuck, scared to try, or tired of living by someone else’s script, Scott’s “live like you’re writing a book” mindset will hit hard. Subscribe, share this with a friend who needs fuel, and leave a review with the one chapter you’re ready to write next.

Thanks for listening.  Please check out our website at www.forsauk.com to hear great conversations on topics that need to be talked about.  In these times of intense polarization we all need  to find time to expand our Frame of Reference.

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Welcome to Frame of Reference, informed intelligent conversations about the issues and challenges facing everyone in today's world. In-depth interviews to help you expand and inform your frame of reference. Now here's your host, Raul Labresh.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

Well, welcome everyone. Welcome, welcome. Welcome again. Welcome 4,982 times. I am sitting here with Scott Scoble, who uh I should ask, Scott's Scott is a uh an entrepreneur who has started something called Moo TV, which I love because we're in Wisconsin here. Uh I'm I'm I'm more originating from there. Moo TV, right there we have something to talk about. How do you name Moo TV? Um, and the cows are really happy to hear I'm talking with somebody from Moo TV. They still think when are you gonna put them on? I I did hear from a couple of Guernseys out in the field before I came on. But uh Scott is here. He is the author as well as a uh a video production genius. Uh I'm gonna call you that. I'm I'm putting you up on the pedestal right away, Scott. Uh but uh Scott has got plenty of experience working with really, I mean, relatively unknown. So I mean you should not be too excited about that. But there's this man, what is it, you six, no, you two that you've worked with, right? And uh Brad uh Stripe, no, no, Brad Paisley. Uh you've worked you're good friends with Brad, right? Uh uh Scott, welcome to Frame of Reference Profiles and Leadership. It is just a joy to talk with you. Thank you, Funch.

SPEAKER_02 1:32

Oh, it's great to be here. Uh the listeners don't know it, but you and I have been talking for 10 minutes, and I really like you. You're a fun guy. This is gonna be fun. This is gonna be fun.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

You know, I try to make it fun, but when I when I find in reading the materials on a person that they are a Star Trek fan, it makes it so much easier right from the beginning. Because I'm like, this, he's one of my peeps. I mean, we are we are going to Trekky Land here, no problem whatsoever.

SPEAKER_02 1:57

Big nerd, big nerd.

Star Trek Favorites And First Films

SPEAKER_01 1:58

Live long and prosper, my friend. You know, there we go. So, plus, it makes the first part of my show, which we try to do, uh, I try to do with everyone. If if I had a lot of money, I'd pay to have Julie Andrews come and do a special track for us. But we start out with my favorite things. And my favorite things is just sort of a Rorschachtian deal where I will ask you a favorite thing and you just pop out with the first one. And because you're a Star Trek guy, I get to reframe these questions to be Star Trek oriented. So the first one, usually I ask the favorite color, but I'm gonna ask you what is the favorite starship that you have in all of Trekdom? What is there a favorite starship? And Enterprise isn't good because everyone's gonna say Enterprise, but beyond the Enterprise, is there a favorite design? Is there a favorite uh, you know, just species that you think has a really, really cool ship?

SPEAKER_02 2:53

You know, uh the Klingon Battle Cruiser, uh, the lines were cool, the cloaking device was cool. And as a child, I had an Ertle model that was made entirely of blow-in-the-dark stuff. So it was hanging from fishing wire in my bedroom. I take it down quite often too. But when I turned the lights off, man, there was a there was a Klingon.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

Was it the D7, the original D7? Is that what you the original? The original, not a bird of prey. That was this was okay, got too.

SPEAKER_02 3:25

The original, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

Oh yeah. Well, you know, I'll I'll I'll one up you on that. I had uh an enterprise, the same company, Ertle, you know, that that and uh I set up my enterprise, which I was a horrible modern model maker, so I don't even I don't look at it anymore. Um, but I I made a movie with it hung up against uh black construction paper with glitter on it to make it look kind of like stars, and I tried to do like a uh you know handheld track cam of going by the enterprise. And you know, to this day, that's one of the first movies I made in in eight millimeter, right? So and I think back boy It's awesome. Well, you know, when you're you know 13 years old and you think you're gonna be at that time it wasn't even a Spielberg, I thought it, you know, I was gonna be the next Spielberg, I guess. Okay, here we go. Favorite food, favorite Star Trek food, favorite Star Trek food.

SPEAKER_02 4:13

Oh, geez, I might not be a big enough nerd to get that right. I would um I don't think I know a Star Trek food that I can think of.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

Not even Grok, like the Klingon worms that they know.

SPEAKER_02 4:26

Okay, all right. I do remember that, and that would not be my favorite food. So you have outnerded me. I bowed to your greatness.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

No, it's okay.

SPEAKER_02 4:35

I I I work with a Star Trek nerd, so grok and other such repulsive entrees.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

Well, I and that you I don't even know the name of it, but I always love that with the original series they had to just make up all this stuff, right? And the one uh thing that they had was all these like colored cubes of of styrofoam, I think is what they ended up using. And I'm like, okay, so here they're trying to make this really modern-looking food, and no one's gonna eat it because it's styrofoam, you know, right? But that was you know in the 1960s. What are you gonna do? How about a favorite quote from Star Trek?

SPEAKER_02 5:09

Oh my, I should have studied for this test.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

Well, I caught you on guard. I I'm totally just trying to take advantage of it.

Why Pain Belongs In The Story

SPEAKER_02 5:17

You know, let's hear what yours is. Uh, I you know, there have been some amazing ones, and I probably would lean into I think Picard and the next generation. There were just some really incredible talks about humanity, and just but I can't remember. I don't have the kind of brain that remembers those things very well.

SPEAKER_01 5:35

Well, I don't either. So and I cheated a little bit because you read you were talking about something in my notes, but uh the this one will stand out, I think, the in uh Star Trek V, which you know, I think the the odd-numbered movies personally got a real bum rap because there's some really cool stuff that happens in the odd-numbered movies. But Kirk and that, I don't know if you remember that that Cybok and his whole, you know, Spock's half brother, you know, all the junk that's going on there, and he's taking away people's pain, you know, and everyone's like, oh, after the, you know, the kind of zombie-like, oh, I've been relieved of my pain. And when Kirk, it comes to be Kirk's time, he says, Damn it, Bones, you're a doctor. You know that pain and guilt can't be taken away with the wave of a magic wand. They're the things that carry us, the things that make us who we are. If we lose them, we lose ourselves. And the thing that always hit me is I don't want my pain taken away. I need my pain.

SPEAKER_02 6:30

And I I mean, I'm right about that in my book. Um you know, I I had uh EMDR work done, and um, I discovered that I had survivor's guilt over my business partner being killed. And the woman working with me, Ginger Pogue, amazing, amazing human. Um and she said, you know, hey, you have survivor's guilt. I can take away this pain and this feeling. The guilt doesn't belong to you. And I said, Oh, okay, let's I do want to get rid of the guilt because I shouldn't feel guilty for being alive. But don't take away my pain. I I need that. How am I supposed to know? If I don't know hurt, I can't know true joy. And if I don't know hurt, I don't know how to empathize and care for others. So definitely let's get the misplaced feelings gone. But I always want to cry when I think about this. And um, I think we did a pretty good job of that.

Near-Death Experiences And Proof Of Heaven

SPEAKER_01 7:27

Right. Well, and it's it's a really, really touching, really moving story. So hopefully we'll get to share a little bit of that because it was so formative to you, too. Um, and that lesson alone, right? Being able to say pain informs the heart. I've I've always thought of it that way. That we're um, you know, when when people go through terrible losses, and I thought of it with my mom when she passed and my dad when she passed. Those are just terrible moments because you at least I found with my mom when she died, I I felt like I lost the last person who could still snee as a little boy. And I grieved for that, you know, I just grieved for it. And yet that that grief is what does make us right care more about human beings. I I sometimes think the biggest a-holes are the people that have never learned how to feel what another person feels and have a sense of not sympathy, but acknowledging that the human experience is tough, you know, and we don't need to make it tougher on one another, right? So, how about a favorite book? I'm gonna throw this back. You can go anywhere you want with this now. Favorite book or recording out, artist or movie?

SPEAKER_02 8:37

You know, uh right now I'm reading a follow-up to Proof of Heaven by Evan Alexander called Map of Heaven. Map of Heaven is okay. Proof of Heaven, it is reminding me, is one of my very favorite books. Evan Alexander is a neurosurgeon who had a strange type of encephalitis make him brain dead for two weeks. But during those two weeks, when his brain was completely non-functional, he has vivid memories of heaven. And it is a really fascinating book. Um, and so NDEs have become one of my more one of my favorite subjects to think about, near death experiences. Right. And Ebon, as a very scientific brain, who would have been the first person to say a book like his is total crap, is the ideal ambassador because he lived it. Right. And he does he does a really compelling job of sharing his story. So I would highly recommend proof of heaven to um to anyone at all interested in one scientist's view of the afterlife.

Psychedelic Therapy And Renewed Faith

SPEAKER_01 9:48

Right, right. Which is uh honestly, that's one of the problems with science and religion or science and faith is it it does take a leap of faith. It's a quantum leap in in many ways. Um and that's that's really hard for some people to give because they think it's, like you say, total crap when in reality it, you know, I I don't know. I I think of it from a physics standpoint sometimes, and I've used that example with friends of mine that are highly empirical and whatnot, and said, you know, we realize in physics that you can't create or destroy energy, it's just not possible. You can transform it into another form, matter or whatnot, but you can't destroy it. So, what happens to the energy that is our soul, the energy that is our spirit? I mean, we know that there's electrical, neurochemical energy going on there. So, what do you think happens with that? You know, it doesn't get destroyed. So, and they just kind of, you know, because that's a question that they just don't have that frame of reference, which is an unabatched plug for the show.

SPEAKER_02 10:46

So how about Well, Evan has a frame of reference, and it's fascinating to hear. And uh, as you read the book, you'll discover that I I I have enough trauma in my past that I felt like psychedelic therapy was a good idea for me. Actually, a dear friend thought it was.

SPEAKER_03 11:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 11:02

I was terrified by the idea of doing any kind of drug because um I grew I spent my whole life in the music business and managed to never do any drugs, which is not that it's rampant, but it's available, it's everywhere. Right and right, you know, um, and my dad was an addict uh in that he uh was addicted to cigarettes and alcohol. So uh, but I I I manned up, I did some research and I tried it, and I feel like I've touched something. I mean, my faith um was really in jeopardy prior to that. Um I would say I was I was agnostic at best.

SPEAKER_03 11:40

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 11:41

Uh grew up with religion, but then the church did some things that that turned me off to religion, my church in particular. And um yeah, but man, I've experienced some things that I cannot explain, some ineffable feelings by being in an altered state that I cannot explain, but feel so real.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:03

So not that I'm a total hippie, uh hi. I'm currently not high and I don't I don't get high on my own, uh, but I do maybe once a year go to a facility uh and spend some time with some really caring people, doctors, nurses, and uh really work on myself. And it has been an incredible, insightful experience.

Go-Karts Solitude And Imagination

SPEAKER_01 12:23

Sure. Well, and I mean, look at the history of LSD, right? It was developed specifically for mind altering, and they had no idea what they were doing when it came right down to it, but you know, uh they learned the hard way that you don't introduce it into the water system in a village in France because it kind of does bad things to the bakeries, you know. It's kind of one of those things. How about do you have a favorite memory from childhood?

SPEAKER_02 12:49

Hmm. I think that what just popped into my head, it hasn't popped into my head in a long time, is I had a go-kart and it was cool. It looked like a dune buggy. And when we grew up, we didn't really have money. Uh, in fact, we were pretty poor sometimes. And I had this go-kart uh and riding in our backfield and just zipping along in my go-kart, I had left and right brakes and big tires and a roll cage, and um just ripping along this course I made uh and sliding around corners. That was pretty awesome. I I grew up in the country, I spent a lot of time alone. My closest neighbor, Brett, was a really good guy, but he worked a lot. His parents had him help out on the farm an awful lot. Okay, and so I was alone a lot, which was great. I developed uh imagination.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

Sure. Well, and that actually makes me think of a um uh way I like to wrap up these is is there a place, is there a memory, is there a thing that you can do? And you may not have even thought about it, or but you find yourself in the midst of it, and all of a sudden you're reminded of something that, regardless of how many times you get reminded of it, it just brings a feeling of either contentment or peace or joy, or sometimes sadness, but it's a good kind of sadness. I you know, I think of like my mom, and when I think of her, it's sad, but then I also can celebrate who she was and grieve over who she always wanted to be and didn't realize that she was much better than what she wanted to be. Um you know, so you think about that sort of thing, and yet there are moments that even if they're painful, I think they can be moments where you just want to kind of settle into them for a while.

SPEAKER_02 14:35

I think that um not to lean back into psychedelics, but I did something, uh it's not detailed in the book because it was after that, but I did something called uh five MeO DMT. And um as I like to describe it, I have spent 57 years on this planet doing my best to be Scott, and it's been a wonderful ride. I've learned a lot of things. Um, but some there is not a child on this planet whose wires don't get crossed when they're younger. Things happen to them that they probably shouldn't, and they get they don't know how to process them, so they come out in other ways, right? And I've spent a lot of time in the past five years trying to rewire that stuff and felt like I've made as much progress as I could and decided to go with a more nuclear um process. And I did something called five MeO DMT, and it uh completely erases you for some time period. Your ego is completely dead. Um and uh all I can say, and I hope I'm not scaring off the non-hippies out there, I am not a hippie, but I am I I and I never would have tried this on my own, but I had loving friends nudge me into it, and it has been so good for me. Um, I have spent 57 years on this planet doing my best to be Scott, and one afternoon I spent forever in a timeless, timeless place, being perfectly loved and perfect, and being a part of a universe that just felt like love. I mean, I spent forever having no experience other than pure love for myself and all around me, whatever that was, forever for beyond forever. I came out of it and was just elated. And I occasionally think back to that. I cannot recapture the feeling, but I can remember that it happened to me.

SPEAKER_01 16:45

What nice like your experience with the book, right? Um, you know, the what better imagination of of heaven than to be people have described that too of feeling totally loved, feeling in this cocoon that not only they felt completely loved, they were surrounded by love, they were in fact part of love, you know, just uh which is that's phenomenal. That I'm so glad for you.

SPEAKER_02 17:11

That's uh it's not for everyone, it it really unanchors you in some ways, but you come back and you come back with this knowledge that there's something more that is so big and beautiful and ineffable. I none of the words I've used to describe it describe it, and this is the language of my head and heart, also, and I can't even describe it to myself other than know that I've been there.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

Yeah, you've experienced it, which is uh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:44

And and all in trying to just be the best and truest version of myself I can be. And I believe it has helped me along that path.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 17:51

Which isn't that wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 17:53

Well, what is it? William Shakespeare's line, right? To thine own self be true. So now you have a true you that is uh you know ineffable. So uh immutable, I would say too. You know, that's uh we we talk in the technology world that I work in, you know, immutable backups that can't be damaged from other forces. They they are what they are and they will remain what they are. Um, you know, you've you're an immutable Scott now, you know, whether that's good or not.

SPEAKER_02 18:23

You know, I just uh it's great, you know. It's it's such an imperfect thing to be, full of dysfunction, full of all sorts of messy things. But it um it's the character I would choose to play in this game because it's the one I know. And uh I like his story, and uh it's good enough for me.

Ghost Pepper Creativity And Spicy Food

SPEAKER_01 18:44

Amen to that. So, well, and I'm supposed to ask you before we get into other deeper things, I'm supposed to ask you what is your Scoville rating? Because Brad Paisley decides uh describes you as what the ghost pepper of something.

SPEAKER_02 18:57

Uh I thought, well, the ghost pepper of tenacity, I believe he calls it.

SPEAKER_01 19:01

Yeah, okay, yeah, that's it. That's it. Ghost pepper of creativity. So of creativity, yeah, yeah. Because your mom, your mom says you just do what you need to do. Uh, which description is better is closer to that's that's what basically so that is a question too. Which do you think you are? The ghost pepper of creativity? Or if you are a ghost pepper, what's your what's your uh scoval rating?

SPEAKER_02 19:21

Scoval rating? Yeah. Well, scoval ratings are usually in the millions, right? Right. Um, but uh here's the funny thing, I can't handle spicy food. Um I executive produced a movie in India and spent six weeks over there and was nearly killed several times by Indian food that was so unbelievably hot with my host who I had adamantly said, please no hot food, and uh nothing. Like I promise I can handle nothing. And I would take a bite and my soul would leave my body as I would just start profusely sweating, and my brain would reboot like an old 486 computer. Oh, yeah. And finally, and meanwhile, my host is looking at me, going, This, this, but this is not hot, and I'd be like, Oh, sir. So my scovel rating sadly is minus two. Okay, well, and um, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

Yeah, at least you know, right? This is something you know you know.

Tenacious And Turning Hardship Into Fuel

SPEAKER_02 20:21

And and I love my mom's description. Uh, I'm I'm honored by Brad's, he has a great way with words. He's very, he's just a really brilliant guy and a fun friend. So honored by that. Uh my mom's feels more like me. You just do what you have to do. And um, and uh, and I would put an asterisk next to have to. You don't have to do anything, but uh, if you want to have an interesting life, you ought to do something. So um I do what I ought to do to have an interesting life because we only get one.

SPEAKER_01 20:50

So, in talking about your book, uh one of the the core threads seems to be people that have these um, I think what a lot of people would describe as just horrible life experiences, just you know, extremely difficult, challenging, painful experiences, and how that transforms them. And in some ways, it almost seems like it's a preparatory bed for what happens to them, but they also they make a choice in it. Um, that you're either going to be consumed by it or you're going to consume it and use that energy for something else, right? So talk about that a bit.

SPEAKER_02 21:31

Well, let me before like I would I've got an author, a co-author, uh, but let me quick say um it's a self-help book, and that description is not my favorite because I don't like to be told what to do.

SPEAKER_03 21:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 21:45

So it is technically a self help book because that's the category that makes sense. But I I really don't tell you what to do in the book. I tell you what I did. So if you tell me what to do, I probably won't do it. Uh to my to my own pain. Right. Like it might be the best advice in the world.

SPEAKER_03 22:02

Right.

SPEAKER_02 22:02

But if you tell me a story about what you did, I will learn from the things you did right. And even better, I'll learn from the things you did wrong. And that's what I've tried to include in the book. Like, here's the stuff I did right. Here's the stuff I did really wrong. And if that doesn't connect with you, here's 17 of my friends and what they did also. So every chapter, at least one guest comes in. Some chapters have as many as three. Um, but in the end of chapter one, Scott Hamilton comes in and I say, you know, hey, someone who knows more about this is Scott Hamilton, the Olympic gold skater. And you, you know, he talks a little bit about winning Olympic gold and his story, but the real underlying thread in Scott's story is cancer. And what I've known Scott and friends with him for years. I didn't know that he was born with a tumor in his brain, and neither did he until he was, until much later in life. And that tumor stunted his growth and made him a very sick little boy. And he spent all of his young time being sick, in and out of hospitals, stunted growth, smallest kid, picked last, and he also was adopted, so he'd get picked on for being adopted. Like Scott's young life had some serious struggle in it. But is that with without that, would Scott Hamilton have won Olympic gold? I don't think so. And and also ironically, his scale, like his size, his growth being stunted made him compact and powerful enough to do flips on the ice and all this. But it's really the book is is inspiring. You know, uh you you paint the picture of the tragedies and you're and you're stepping into it, but it really is inspiring in that the tragedies are there, but how everybody got over them is in there too, and all the amazing things they've done. So Scott's story is a perfect example of that. But you know, there's one of my other favorites is Thomas Marshburn. Um, I have two wonderful astronauts in the book, Katie Coleman and um who lived on the space station for six months, and Thomas Marshburn. Thomas couldn't uh was failing math in high school. And um that failing of math was okay with him because he was gonna be an artist. But he decided he read a he read a book called 13 about Apollo 13. Oh, yeah. And after reading the book, he said, I'm gonna be an astronaut.

SPEAKER_03 24:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 24:23

And with that first, and the book teaches you like you gotta have a dream. So boom, he's got a dream, but he's like, crap, astronauts don't fail math. I'm gonna need to learn math. And so he in high school got better at math, not by just studying math, but what he discovered when really looking at himself was that every time he would feel under pressure in trying to do the math, his his thinking would get cloudy. And what he learned in overcoming those math problems was how to think very clear and calculated under pressure. And that is, of course, a characteristic you're gonna need if you're an astronaut who's spacewalking. I mean, in the book, we there's some incredible stories of him spacewalking in there. And uh, an incredible guy. And what but what I loved about his story is that it was as simple as math. And you think about all the things that you may or may not embrace in life, and you have no idea downstream what may or may not happen to you. Like if Scott Hamilton didn't embrace skating in a learn to skate program, or if Thomas Marshburn just decided he could never be an astronaut because of the math. But these people didn't decide that. They decided, no, I'm gonna overcome this.

SPEAKER_01 25:39

Right.

SPEAKER_02 25:39

And um, and look what's happened to them.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

Well, so that's didn't Scotty have uh the whole issue with because he was a skater, got made fun of, got bullied by people, um, you know, so then he decides to play hockey to just get them off his back. But, you know, he he had been a figure skater for how long? And you know, he talks about too, his mom being so critical or yeah, critical in a good way. She was critical to his formation, um, and you know, believed in him so much that even when didn't she pass away when he was just kind of getting started with things?

SPEAKER_02 26:11

Of cancer, yeah, the disease that's that he's been fighting most of his life.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

So then it ends up being her sacrifice, but he didn't know about at the time, but didn't she uh actually arranged for him to continue to be skate after her death. And you know, he he then embraced that pain of losing her and all that she had done, all the joyfulness that she expressed watching him skate, and used that to go on the the ice and say, you know, this is my tribute essentially to mom. I'm I'm gonna continue to carry this love forward. Um that seems to be a constant thing, too, is that whole sense of there's a love cocoon in people's lives that then that empowers getting through the grief, I guess to some extent, and and gives a direction for provides a light you know out of the the grief into now what do I do with this kind of thing. Is that does that make sense?

SPEAKER_02 27:05

Absolutely. And you know, I can relate to the mom thing with with Scott and that uh when I lost my business partner, one of the employees came to. I never planned on owning a company like Moo TV. I just didn't. You know, I ran the Nashville office, but it sounded hard. And he came to me about three months after Lee died and he said, you know, I know you're not okay, but it's time to like pull it together. We really think you should start a company like his, which was the first I'd thought of it. And he said, uh, I've taken the the liberty of asking the employees, they're all in, and the clients, they want to know how they can help. And I really think you would keep some part of Lee alive if you did this. And that last part got me. And I believe I started Moo TV just to keep some part of Lee alive. Um, you know, he was uh for the listener, he was tragically killed in a in a carjacking, and he was one of my heroes and mentors and a best friend and a father figure, and I was really devastated, and he was my boss. But I think I started the company because of that.

SPEAKER_03 28:10

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 28:11

Well, that's not a good reason. And about four years in, I realized I hadn't slept in four years, was on the verge of being bankrupt, and he was still gone, and I had kind of a meltdown. But um I re-I pulled it together and said, okay. Took me a couple of months, but I said, All right, I love our clients, I love our employees, I'm not doing this for Lee anymore. I hope he's really proud of me, but I'm gonna start doing this for them. And so it was a hard road that probably I wouldn't have chosen, but the things that influence you, and uh, I took that hard path. And now in hindsight, my goodness, the wonderful things that have come into my life because I did that. I'm so grateful that I made that decision.

SPEAKER_01 28:53

I have a friend that is talks about um God is not nearly as interested in our circumstances as he is in our character. And that the the events that happened in our life that are, I look back at, I mean, I, you know, I I I can say I don't think I have anything quite as uh what I felt for you and the empathy I felt for you to have to have such a close friend, a mentor, a father figure, you know, a person that took you under his wing and made you who you are in a lot of ways, to have him, you know, killed so randomly, right, by uh a couple of carjackers and carjackers that are hyped up on PCP and and then to have them steal the car and run over him. I mean, it's it's so awful you almost can't believe that. How could that happen to this wonderful man? So you can you know sit there and go, you know, God war you go, you know, or you can say, No, I'm gonna honor the love that he he gave me and the respect and the courage and whatever that he gave me and and do something good with it because that's the best way to have a tribute to him, right?

SPEAKER_02 30:03

So um I am looking forward to reuniting with him someday.

SPEAKER_01 30:08

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:08

Uh, I'm not in a hurry to do it, but when I do, we're gonna have a lot to talk about, and um yeah, I think he'd be incredibly proud.

How Stadium Video Shows Get Built

SPEAKER_01 30:16

I I hope so. Boy, if if he's not, I'd be like, dude, what's wrong with me? You Woodwit? What's going on? Why are you proud of this guy?

SPEAKER_02 30:23

And for the listeners, it's we're talking about Moo TV, which is when you go to a concert and see video production, you see screens and cameras. Like if you get a chance this summer, go see Luke Combs. That thing is gargantuan. But we've got about 30 clients we work with, and when you see that equipment, it's ours and the people that are out. So Luke Combs has like four tractor trailers of our stuff, I think. And uh 16 people on the road with him that are ours. Okay, and then there's other tours like Peter Frampton wrote in my book. Um, that's a smaller tour. He's got one screen and one guy doing playback, but it's still really cool because when Peter's singing songs from his, you know, from um his past, images of him at 20-something years old are up on the screen. Like it's really a really cool use of video with someone who's got a story like Peter's.

SPEAKER_01 31:12

That's got to be a tremendous experience too, from a creative standpoint. I mean, I I have a background, you know, MFA and stage direction. So I'm always just thrilled to, you know, meet someone like yourself that's able to do the things that I I try to do, but on a limited budget, you know, you just can't quite ever get there, right? But uh that's it has to be fascinating to have all of those different variables going on and to not have money be a hindrance to what your vision is. Um, I you know, I I I applaud that. I I that that's got to be a really fun world to be a part of.

SPEAKER_02 31:44

It's always a hindrance. But um, someone like Luke Combs, I mean, that thing is you'll you'll appreciate this. But the video screen, it's a circle wrapped around the stage. Uh I think it's 327 feet long if you stretch it out straight. Uh, everything is everything is in full 4K HDR, which isn't a big big deal at home, but it is when you're pushing that kind of data live. And there's 28 cameras, uh, some wireless, some a lot of robots, and a whole bunch of people. It is a massive undertaking. And we build it to do the show and then tear it down and move it again and again and again. It's a fun industry. I loved being in it.

SPEAKER_01 32:24

Yeah, yeah. Well, and you and especially you talk about that too regularly. How the excitement for you isn't the money and all that stuff. It's watching the crowd be just totally like, whoa, you know, kind of the impact.

SPEAKER_02 32:38

Most entrepreneurs are wired, I think, for money on some level. Not not entirely, like the best ones, maybe not, but but um I don't care at all. One of the hardest things when I became a train when I became an entrepreneur was I had to train myself to care about money because if you're irresponsible with it, you let everybody down and you can't pay them anymore. Right. So that was hard for me. Um, but uh I made it through the really tough times in the beginning to where I could start to hire people who have a better vision for that to help me with that.

PTSD Survivor’s Guilt And EMDR

SPEAKER_01 33:15

So can I we talked a little bit about the um uh you you had you've had a couple of deeper moments. Uh one of them was the the choice you made with the EMDR therapy. Um and the the woman you've alluded to are already Ginger, uh, who helped you with that relief of pain. But um how do you see the difference? How would you describe to listeners the difference between pain that is is you know giving you some life experience that you can utilize and pain that is just extra baggage that you you really need to learn how to shed and you know not carry any longer?

SPEAKER_02 33:54

Yeah. So I was doing EMDR work um because I have I've had PTSD at a few points in my life. Um there was some trauma in my childhood, and once you have PTSD, it's easy to get it again. And so I talk about in the book when Lee died, I started having vivid visions that someone was trying to kill me, and I hid that from everyone because I didn't know what PTSD was. I literally could see myself through a rifle scope and simultaneously knew that there was no way someone was trying to shoot me, and also a part of me knew that I was in the crosshairs, and it was I felt like I was going crazy, so I hid it from everyone. And when the Jason Aldean tragedy happened, the the shooting in Vegas, uh, that mass shooting that was just so awful. Uh Jason is my client. Yeah, Chris Young was there, he's my client, and uh Jake Owen is there, he's my client. So I had a bunch of people I know and love and care about there. And um I counseled them about what PTSD was. In fact, I rolled my tour bus to Jason's show and just let it be known like, hey, I can help anybody. I can, or if you got to get the hell out of here because you can't handle it, because he went right back out on the road. He said, if I don't go right away, I'm not gonna make it. And um I was like, if anyone needs to go home, my bus is here to take you home. If you don't need to go home, I'm here to talk if anyone wants to talk. And um in counseling, my my friends, one of them called me the next day and said, Man, he it was a call of gratitude, like for helping him get through it. But he said, Can I make a suggestion? And I was like, sure. He said, Can you go see the person that I'm seeing, the the EMDR lady you sent me to? And I was like, Why? He goes, Because you're not okay. And I wasn't. I was so wrapped up. I mean, I just got dragged back into it by hearing their stories, and it just broke my heart.

SPEAKER_03 35:49

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 35:50

And I was like, ooh, so you're telling me to take my own medicine. He's like, I'm telling you to take your own medicine. So I went to I went to um Ginger, and it was incredible to me. Um I wasn't okay, but it's hard to describe how I wasn't okay. I was feeling um tired and depressed, um, which is normal things for some sort of grief, but there's another level to it that just didn't make sense, if you will. And I wasn't to where I was having visions. But when I went in with ginger, anyone who hasn't had EMDR, let me explain in one minute. It was incredible. I was like, So you want me to hold these vibrating paddles that'll vibrate left, vibrate right, vibrate left, vibrate right. And somehow that's going to open up my brain. And she said, Yep. And I said, Well, that's spooky and it doesn't make sense to me. And she goes, I know. But I trusted her. So I do it 45 seconds, eyes closed. She stops him. I open my eyes, I tell her what I was thinking about, you know, the moment Lee died. She's like, Great, lean into this. Close my eyes, paddles vibrate. I'm like, okay, now I'm thinking more about this, and it's getting hard. Like I'm getting into it. And uh I tell her about how he lived for a while. And I close my eyes and the paddles start vibrating. And two words popped into my head, and she immediately stopped the paddles because she saw me just react. And I went to talk to her and I couldn't talk. And I'm just looking at her like, what the hell? We're about five minutes into this. And she's just holding her hand up, going, take your time. And finally, after a minute or two, I got the two words out. I looked at her and I said, I lived. And then I just burst into tears and couldn't talk. And uh, when I finally settled down, she said, You have survivor's guilt. So, how crazy is it that hanging on to these two vibrating paddles and thinking about something that I've been thinking about for 16 years? I had a breakthrough five minutes into this stuff. So I don't know. If you got some trauma to resolve, EMDR for the win. Um, and and it was an amazing first step.

SPEAKER_01 38:13

But um I keep thinking about we are fearfully and wonderfully made, you know, a scripture that that I come back to a lot. It's just, you know, who who would think that our hands, but our hands are such a key point for sensitivity. You know, we do so much through our hands. It can you can teach yourself how to read with your hands, you know. So yeah, in some ways it that makes sense that somebody found by stimulating those particular touch, you know, it's like I think smell is like that way too, right?

Live Like You’re Writing A Book

SPEAKER_02 38:39

You can do headphones too that have a sound. I haven't tried it, and you can do a light bar. It's not hypnosis, it's very different. But I chose the vibrating paddles um for whatever reason. And um yeah, it just opened me up. And and so to answer the question, I still cry when I talk about Lee. You saw me right on the edge of tears there. It's just such a horrific thing, right? And but I don't feel in any way guilty that I am being successful. He and I were doing something together and then he died and I kept going. Why that bothers us as human beings doesn't make sense, but it's so true so often. I mean, I had employees that weren't at the Vegas tragedy who absolutely had survivors' guilt because they weren't there. I mean, one of them a couple weeks later just fell into my arms and was just like, it should have been me. And I'm like, buddy, I am so glad you weren't there. It should not have been you. Right. So the mind is a really wild thing, and we'll never fully understand it, but that's good because how boring would that be if we fully understand it? I'm I'm really, I like I like what I'm doing. I'm trying to figure it out, and and uh it's fun. Like every the only life worth living is a life of effort. Um, and and I spend a lot of effort trying to figure out who and why Scott is, and I love it. It's fun.

SPEAKER_01 40:11

Yeah, you talk about too the uh Tim Ferris, how he isn't a contributor to the book, but he you had kind of an epiphany with uh stuff that he did. Um, the the whole, you know, live like you're writing a book. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:24

What a crazy. I credit Tim. I still wish I could have got him in the book. I he and I hung out. Uh obviously, we're not good enough friends. I couldn't even get a hold of him. But he and I hung out on this thing called Summit series, which is this really cool cruise uh full of inspiring people. And we hung out like four years in a row, some. But uh I I asked him one night, did you really do all that crazy stuff that you said you did in Four Hour Work Week? And then immediately felt regret for asking because how dare I ask that? Of course he did, or did he? And uh he he his answer was amazing. He said, Yeah, I did, but I will tell you that the first few chapters are me falling apart. And he he, I know a little behind the scenes from that book, he was uh engaged to a woman who was just beautiful and perfect, and his company was perfect, and everything was perfect, and he came home one day and all of her stuff was gone. And there was a note saying, I need more, and you're you're married to work and I'm I'm gone. And he went on a binge. But while the first three, four chapters are kind of being written with that stuff going on, when you get deeper into the book and the he starts doing all these crazy things around the globe. Read the book, it's so inspiring, it's nuts. Um, when he starts doing all those crazy things around the globe, uh, it's because he's he knows he's writing a book at that point. He's decided that he's gonna write a book about the fact that his company did better with him out of the way than it did when he was there. And uh, how little can I work? Can I do a four-hour work week and still have a successful company? And more importantly, a really interesting and successful life. And so that he told me that story, and I was like, that's a really good answer. But the next morning I sat straight up in bed, and this happens to me once in a while, where I will wake up, sit straight up in bed, and just be like, Oh, and I went, son of a gun. My friend Tim did not have a life worth writing about and then write a book. My friend Tim started writing a book and then thought, well, I guess I better have a life worth writing about. And I made myself a promise right then that I was gonna start living like I was writing a book. And I told myself, you'll never write a book, which turns out I lied to myself, but I didn't know. And um, asking myself at every turn what would make the next chapter more interesting.

SPEAKER_03 42:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:48

And whatever that is, if it won't totally blow up my life, I'm gonna do it. And I've been doing that for 15, almost 20 years. Thank you, Tim. He's inspired millions of people in so many ways. This is how he inspired me. I've been living my life like I'm writing a book ever since that conversation with Tim.

SPEAKER_01 43:05

Well, and it made you do things that have been really exciting, right? I mean, becoming a singer, you know, that would you know, friends of the.

SPEAKER_02 43:10

Yeah, you want to get the you want the scoop? Why don't you tell the scoop? I haven't even talked about it on social yet, but I'm I'm opening for Brad Paisley in Norway June 11th and 13th. And I was told as a kid I couldn't sing. Yeah, but I got drunk at a party in Norway like 15 years ago. And um sure, blame it on these.

SPEAKER_03 43:32

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 43:32

Yeah, and and and started singing along to the radio, and and there was a band there at the party, and they're like, You're joining us on stage tomorrow. I'm like, No, I'm not. And they're like, Yeah, you are. And I'm like, I don't sing. They're like, Yeah, you do.

SPEAKER_03 43:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:45

And I joined them on stage and was just mortified by the whole thing, and thought there were polite applause. And I run up to the bar and the barmaid is beautiful and sweet. And I'm like, I would like all of the beer. I'm hungover from the night before, I'm sober, I don't drink. Anymore, by the way, but I used to be really good at it. And um and she's not getting me my drink. And I'm like, what the hell? And I look up at her like and she goes, I have goosebumps. And I'm like, what? And the band gets off stage and they're like, join our band. And I'm like, huh? And it turns out I'm a baritone. So the reason I couldn't sing when I was a kid was who knows? Maybe my voice was cracking. Maybe I was already a baritone. I was trying to hit the notes that everybody else was hitting.

SPEAKER_01 44:28

Right.

SPEAKER_02 44:29

It turns out as an adult, as long as I sing down where like Johnny Cash sang a lot of his stuff, I can hit it. And so then I I just loved it. I got I from then on, I was like, okay. And like, join join our band. I'm like, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. And then I sat there and went, it would make the next chapter more interesting. Yeah. And so they asked again two drinks later, and I went, Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:51

Well, you look up your name, and you one of the big things that comes up is your country music concerts that are going on, you know. And yeah, I'm used to thinking, oh, Scott Scoble, he's this video production guy, and then you're like, you know, singing in your your country.

Tenacity Beats Fear And Perfection

SPEAKER_02 45:03

Well, it's fun. Well, maybe it'll, you know, now author and just hey, like everybody listening, you got one life. Yeah, make it interesting, like have fun with it. Like, go, what can I do now? And and that's what the book's about. Like all those things that you haven't done, whether it's like something as simple as learn to cook or get off your ass and meet a mate, or something as nutty as being an astronaut, go do it.

SPEAKER_03 45:30

Right.

SPEAKER_02 45:30

Like, even if you don't get there, first off, all your fears are way more fierce than they are in reality. Amelia Earhart says our fears are paper tigers in one of her famous quotes. I quoted in the book. As soon as you get close, you realize, well, that's not scary. And I found that to be true. I I, you know, I as a kid was terrified of failing. And that led me to flunking out of college and rock bottom. But I started trying. I found a dream worth trying for, and I started trying. And man, just being tenacious, I have I've run down things that are really interesting to me. From like hockey to singing to writing a book to making movies, to I've been to almost 60 countries, all the continents. And I just keep asking myself, uh, what would make the next chapter more interesting? And then especially if it's hard, I start stepping towards it. Because even if I change my mind at some point and say, you know, I don't think I'm gonna do that. It was fun trying. Yeah. So I just I don't know. I went from being terrified of trying to loving trying, and it's been the absolute difference maker in my life. Early in the episode, you were asking me to remember things like foods from Star Trek. I can't remember stuff like that. I don't, I am not the smartest person you'll ever meet. I am not, you for those of you who can see me on video, I'm not the best looking. I'm not, I'm just Scott.

SPEAKER_03 46:58

Right.

SPEAKER_02 46:58

But Scott has gone from living this life he's really ashamed of, yeah, like waiting tables on the side of a highway, to like having a couple hundred employees and working with my heroes and doing all sorts of really fun, interesting things. Because Scott decided it was more fun to try and fail than to fail by not trying.

COVID Survival And Caring For Employees

SPEAKER_01 47:21

Well, and you I mean, I love I love that kind of introduction to what was it, what your counselor that said you would rather, you know, grab a hot stove than you know, try. And then, you know, here you are at what you you were working in your miserable waiting job, and some of the guys, the road crew comes in from you too, and you make friends with them and they invite you to the concert and you walk in and have that you know epiphany moment where this is my place, this is what I'm supposed to do. And I think the encouraging thing for me from the book, and I would encourage anyone listening to that, is find your thing, you know, just keep looking until you find your thing because you will know. I I knew after COVID, you know, you talk about that a little bit too, and COVID, how it almost destroyed your your business. And I I recognize the first concert that I did, you know, video work after COVID, and I was back with those guys, back with the road crew, back with the the people that just do not have time for bullshit. You know, they just don't. They're you know, they're who they are, and you know, like me or leave me. I got work to do, you know, and just have really fascinating stories and are fun to talk to. I thought, oh God, I have missed my people, you know, and that that was one of the worst things about I think uh COVID in general is we lost our group identity.

SPEAKER_02 48:38

And you know, you it's I'm really proud and happy that you got your your your groove back, you know, because that's well, I think one thing that Moo TV did really right as we tried to stay connected to our employees. We had Zooms all the time. Um, we would call them all the time. Like we had a they don't know it was a spreadsheet. They can hear it now if they're listening, but I had a spreadsheet and I would just go through and call people periodically. So um, you know, I know that makes it a little more calculated, but the calculation was based on caring. And I just wanted to see if they're okay. And so we would, you know, Travis and I and and we would just call people and just say, Are you okay? How are you doing? What's going on? And we were able to do some shows. You know, I have a rehearsal facility called the Steel Mill, and Bandit Lights and Claire Brothers and I uh loaded in a video, uh a show, basically, and we started having people perform there for virtual audiences, which was not exciting for us compared to the roar of the crowd. But it was wonderful to do something. And by pivoting like that, I was able to generate about a million dollars, which uh wasn't really enough. But by burning through and going very in debt, um, yeah. 18 months-ish later, uh the bank was calling in our loans and it looked like it was about over. And uh COVID, they lifted uh they lifted the restrictions, and we survived by the skin of our teeth.

Fear Politics And Choosing Love

SPEAKER_01 50:08

Yeah, you know, but you kept going too. The tenant tenacity, you know, keeps people going in those moments where you're like, uh, what am I supposed to do? And I, you know, you kicked on something too. I mean, you loved your people, you love people. Um, you know, like there's uh when we got married, my wife picked out a scripture that has just stayed with me all my life that was on the the uh uh wedding invitations from first John and it says, Beloved, let us love one another for everyone that loves knows God and is born of God. And I thought, you know, that that just cuts through so much bullshit. If you can just remember, just love one another. Because if you're loving one another, you are. You're I think that's how we get in touch with God, is we love each other. That's what's so terrible about right now, is there's so much stuff working to say, don't love those people. They're Republicans, they're Democrats, you know, it's just crazy.

SPEAKER_02 51:03

So there are people who want power, there are people who want money, there are people who want sex. These are the motivators, right? Yeah, uh generally, I mean, I used to live in DC, DC is a power city, and if you want power, you need to move people. If you want to move people, the number one way to do it is to scare them. So politics scare you. The other side is threatening you, right? And I'm not and I'm not a I am not political. I am not gonna give you any indication of how I feel. I can just tell you as a guy who used to live in DC, right? And I actually used to uh do AV on some of the senators' retreats, and I would hear them plan about this. Sure. I signed an NDA saying I wouldn't talk about it. It has been 30-something years, almost 40, and I won't give you any specifics, but they plan on how to scare you into action. How do they get you to vote for them and not the other guy?

SPEAKER_03 52:02

Right.

Final Thoughts And Farewell

SPEAKER_02 52:02

Well, I'm just gonna sit home and watch TV or do some yard work instead of go vote. Well, not if you're scared, you won't. If you're scared, you'll go vote. And so unfortunately, it's just sort of wired into our system that fear is very rewarded. And uh it's unfortunate. I don't know the answer to that. And uh, you know, I do think a lot of politicians are doing their best um, you know, for everyone. And I also think a lot of them are doing their best for themselves, just like everybody else in this world. Right, right. But um not a new thing. But but I would say to the listeners, just try not to be so afraid. And uh I try to listen to both uh CNN and Fox. And if you listen to both, you're like, okay, both of these can't be true. The truth is somewhere in the middle. And then I did that for a long time, particularly during the pandemic. Now I don't listen very much. I just kind of stay out of it and hope it all settles out. And I know that's not the best thing, but there's a lot of really interesting people who will lean into politics and make a difference in that way in this world. I would rather lean into hearts and minds one person at a time and try and make a difference in this world that way. That's better suited to, I think, me and who I am.

SPEAKER_01 53:17

Folks, I I have to wrap it up. I we've honored, you know, tried to honor the hour time slot we've got. Scott, if we can't find the time to talk some more, um, that will be a great disappointment in my life. I hope you feel the same way because it uh there's so much more of your book to talk about, and even if it's not the book, um, you know, there's just so much of life to talk about and so many things that I think are inspiring. I know it's been inspiring to me. Um, you know, I'm lucky, guys. I got an early copy of the book. And I also I'm on the pre I'm on the waiting list for it too. Okay. So I I'm buying my copy of it as well, just so you know.

SPEAKER_02 53:51

I would love to sign one for you sometime. If you're ever in Nashville, I'll bring you to a Preds game if you like hockey.

SPEAKER_01 53:57

I just would like to hang out at this what is it, the steel mill that you're the steel mill, yeah. Yeah, I'd love to hang out there and I I'd just love to see the back room of how you put the video together.

SPEAKER_02 54:06

Yeah, we've got a big artist in there now. I never say who, but we got somebody big in there pretty much all the time.

SPEAKER_01 54:11

Okay. Well, and I I saw uh Brad Paisley talking about how the two of you are just like work, work, work, work, work. He can call you or send you an email at three o'clock and you're doing animation, stop, stop animation with you know little cars for episode for songs of here.

SPEAKER_02 54:24

True when written. Uh, I'm getting older. So three o'clock, I'm probably asleep now. Uh but I get up earlier. I used to stay up until three or four and then make myself go to bed. And now I feel tired, but I do get up seven hours later. Like, what no matter what my alarm's set for, like I try and sleep in and my eyes open and I'm like, yeah, okay, here we go. Yeah, what are we doing today?

SPEAKER_01 54:47

Well, I'm 65, and I can tell you you get to a point where five o'clock, you gotta get up and go pee. It's just uh the way it works.

SPEAKER_02 54:54

I'll look looking forward to that.

SPEAKER_01 54:57

Yeah, I'm sorry to sorry to rain on your parade there. It's all part of it. Um but, anyways, folks, uh Scott Scovel Scott uh is uh in the Scovel rating I hear is negative two. Um negative two. Yeah, yeah. So that's okay. We're not gonna hold that against you. And I am not gonna hold it against you that you did not know a Star Trek food. I I just so you know.

SPEAKER_02 55:16

Well, now I know the next person who asks me, I'll be like Brock.

SPEAKER_01 55:20

No problem. Whatsoever. Yeah, if anyone ever asks you. Yeah, yeah. I love the squirminess that goes on, it just makes me feel like I'm eating dinner at home. Um so but anywho, uh his book, Tenacious, which has a wonderful cover.

SPEAKER_02 55:36

I like the ladders kind of going up and what Yeah, I'm really I'm really happy with so much about it. I really am. I'm proud. How about that?

SPEAKER_01 55:43

Well, you know, and pride is a good thing when done in moderation, right? Like everything else. So there's proud and then there's arrogance. So that's that's probably the road I've definitely not that.

SPEAKER_02 55:53

This whole thing has been terrifying to hanging out there. Like, here's my art. What if they don't like my baby?

SPEAKER_01 56:01

Yeah, yeah. I can relate to that. You direct a play and put it out there.

SPEAKER_02 56:06

Misery of an artist, right?

SPEAKER_01 56:07

Oh, yeah. It's just uh I I can't even be in the theater when a play that I've directed is up and running because it's just like I can't stand what if people are going to be able to take it in the moment to just uh anyways. Thank you so much, Scott. Pleasure meeting with you. Pleasure, pleasure talking with you.

SPEAKER_02 56:24

Listeners, thanks for taking the time.

SPEAKER_01 56:26

Oh God, I I would take the time again in a moment without even thinking twice about it. So hopefully we can find a time when your schedule allows that and make it happen. So