Best Selling Author and Extreme Marathon Swimming Pioneer, Lynne Cox, joins John Moffet on a special episode of SPORTS + LIFE + BALANCE. From breaking multiple world records, and cross-channel swimming around the world, to publishing seven books, Lynne shares her inspiring life story.
Pick up a copy of Tales of Al: The Water Rescue Dog:
https://www.amazon.com/Tales-Al-Water-Rescue-Dog/dp/B09HVCDK7W/
Thanks to our episode sponsor, Roka! Use code "SLB" for 20% off your purchase at Roka.
https://www.roka.com/
Best Selling Author and Extreme Marathon Swimming Pioneer, Lynne Cox, joins John Moffet on a special episode of SPORTS + LIFE + BALANCE. From breaking multiple world records, and cross-channel swimming around the world, to publishing seven books, Lynne shares her inspiring life story.
Pick up a copy of Tales of Al: The Water Rescue Dog:
https://www.amazon.com/Tales-Al-Water-Rescue-Dog/dp/B09HVCDK7W/
Thanks to our episode sponsor, Roka! Use code "SLB" for 20% off your purchase at Roka.
https://www.roka.com/
This is season three, episode four of sports life balance.
Lynne Cox:I suddenly felt something large swimming underneath me. And the water was pitch black, and I could feel it moving. And I got a little scared. And I thought, you know, maybe I should swim a little closer to shore. So I did, yeah. And then I moved a little closer, just sort of outside the wave break thinking that maybe if it's a shark, I need to get out of the water. But I kept swimming because I thought, you know, if you can't make it for a workout, and you're going to swim on the Catalina channel at night, and you feel something moving underneath you, then you're not going to make it across county the channel at night. So you got to be aware of what's going on. But at the same time, you can't freak yourself out.
JOHN MOFFET:That's just a tease from bestselling author and extreme marathon swimming pioneer limb Cox. I'm John Moffet. And this very special episode of sports life balance was recorded live at a bookstore in Culver City, California. Well, thank you. Thank you all for joining us tonight for what will be an inspiring conversation with our special guest, Lynne Cox. Lynne first made a name for herself as a pioneer in ultra endurance swimming, breaking multiple world records throughout her career. But for each of her over 60, over 60 cross channel swims around the world, she really pushed the boundaries of human performance, and in the most extreme conditions imaginable. And in 1987, her swim across the Bering Strait. Get this, from the United States, to the Soviet Union, up there near Alaska, was conceived by Lynne completed by Lynne, and encouraged peace between the superpowers during the Cold War, an amazing feat. But Lynne is also a prolific author publishing several books about her World Adventures. And we're here at Village well books and coffee to celebrate the release of her seventh book, tales of owl, the water rescue dog. So here we go. swimmer, Explorer, Best Selling Author, pioneer, Lynne Cox, let's give her a warm welcome. And thank you again for being here.
Lynne Cox:Thank you all for coming tonight. This is really great.
JOHN MOFFET:So let's talk about tales of owl, the water rescue dog, you begin the book with a childhood memory. And it's the memory of swimming with your family dog, Beth, and tell me why this is a significant moment in your life.
Lynne Cox:Oh, it was because my parents wanted us all to swim, and even the family dog get to learn. But the thing was, was that they taught us in a way that was so supportive, where my mom would hold me, and then I'd kick and move and try to pull and pass me off to my dad. And then we reverse it. So eventually, I would be able to move my arms and legs and start to swim. And I always felt supported. And as I got stronger, there was less support. So my parents did the same thing with a dog. And I realized that they were training baths and teaching baths just like they had worked with my brother and sisters in me. And the thing is that I've heard about people that just take dogs or kids or adults, and throw them into the water and expect them to be able to swim. Yeah. And so that set up this whole trauma thing for them. And I really wanted to talk about, that's not the way that dogs or people should be trained to swim. And so part of my reason to for going to Italy, to learn more about the water rescue dogs, was to see if they were being forced to do what they were doing if they were being forced to leap out of helicopters, or if they were afraid or if they're afraid of jumping into the water. And I wondered if the owners and trainers had compassion for them or their goals were bigger than the dog. Because you know, when you've grown up as an age group, swimmer, and then you've competitive you've been competitive at the, the collegiate level and you at the Olympic level, you've seen parents that can sometimes have higher goals, then the child or the adolescent or the teenager, or, you know, the Olympic swimmer, and so, and I saw that, so I was really curious to see how are these dogs trained? So I went to Italy,
JOHN MOFFET:and also along the way you always had dogs growing up and you really fell in love with dogs and swimming growing up?
Lynne Cox:Yes, because but well actually what was so interesting about Beth, she learned to swim for my folks. But when we go in the water with her in this place called Snow pond and mean oh wow. She would swim over to my mom and try to grab her by the arm and pull her into shore. So her instincts were always to save her Not that my mom wasn't a good swimmer, she was an amazing swimmer. But in best perception, you know, she needed to be rescued, but didn't do that to any of the rest of us. And we weren't as good as swimmers, my mom. But I think that it was just amazing to see this inherit and quality of protecting and wanting to make sure the family was okay.
JOHN MOFFET:Well, what then specifically got you interested about the Italian rescue dogs,
Lynne Cox:I saw a video of a huge Newfoundland was probably weighed about 160 pounds, leaping out of a helicopter into a lake in Northern Italy helicopter out of a helicopter. And so I thought, you know, how does the dog do that? And how hard is that impact? Because at the Belmont Plaza pool, we used to be allowed to go off the 10 meter. And I hit the water wrong once and decided this is not going to be for me. So how do you get the dogs to do this? But also mean? Because we're swimmers? A lot of us. And so the dogs going down under the water? How does the dog know about holding his breath? Does that come naturally? Or does the dog learn it or what happens? So I wound up connecting with a friend who had been connected with the US Embassy in Rome. And that friend knew the military attache, who put me in touch with the school in Italy, because they worked and trained in conjunction with the Italian coast guard. So they invited me to come to Italy, and watch them train with their dogs. And it was it was really fabulous.
JOHN MOFFET:Well, I think that dogs can be a reflection of our best selves, oftentimes, and also a reflection of other other things are imperfect selves. Perhaps you write about the courage of these rescue dogs, and how that courage that the dogs show, we can use in our own life.
Lynne Cox:Exactly. I think that there's this there's, you know, when you are become an athlete, yourself, and then you see a dog that's trained to become a super athlete, you see all those parallels. And you see the methods that are used that are positive, or negative. And what I saw in Italy with the training of those dogs was that it was always positive reinforcement. But the thing that I thought was so interesting was that they would work on a skill with a certain dog. And then if the dog didn't get it, they would back down to the skill that they had done before. And they would repeat it and the dog would success. So another time, they'd come back, and they would then try that skill again, that their new skill that they were trying to do. So what they were doing is reinforcing success, and not failure. And I thought this is really brilliant. But the other thing that was so surprising is that they were older dogs that were not always older dogs, but they were better dogs at rescuing people that knew the drill that would teach the other dogs. Yes, they were they were like coaches, there was one dog named Moss, who was the star of the program, who had rescued something like 20 people and and was involved in preventing rescues from happening. So she was the one that not only all the other dogs tried to get to and in terms of that level, but she also was the one that helped show them what they needed to do.
JOHN MOFFET:Wow, that's fascinating. So you talk about that the Newfoundlands are cute, she said up to like 160 pounds, enormous, like a big human. But what is their nature? What are they like? What are they good at? What are they not? It's so good at?
Lynne Cox:They're really big, sweet dogs. I mean, that's generally what they are. They just want to be with you. They just want to go with you. They're up for adventure. They're very curious. But if they are not engaged and stuff, they can cause a lot of distraction, like big, big holes dug and they can chew up things like any dog that doesn't get enough attention. The dogs were initially bred in Newfoundland. They came initially the previous dogs, the Newfoundland came on board ships from fishing ships from Spain and Europe. And then they reached Newfoundland, and then their dogs were specifically bred to help pull in the fishing lines to shore the nets the nets so they make heavy big heavy nets and big ropes that they had to wrap their mouth around. Okay, and so the reason the Newfoundlands have really floppy lips and they kind of drool sometimes Yeah, it's because they needed to breathe when they were pulling in the lines. So this was specifically done so the dog could breathe and so they would pull the lines but they also had could could pull in small carts. So if the fish went onto a cart or the whole catch the day was on a huge cart, the dog would pull it pull it along the the dog is our, from what I saw, really easygoing, but there can be Newfoundlands that are very aggressive as well. Okay. You know, and they say that's the Mastiff that's in them. But I had thought until probably two weeks ago, that all Newfoundlands love the water, that is part of what they do. And it turns out that no, while they're not, there's a line that doesn't like the water at all. And they stay as far from it as they can. In fact, I was talking to a woman last week who is involved with a Newfoundland Club of America. And they're involved in in doing water rescue training here in the United States with the dogs. And she said she had one six month old Newfoundland, who was so smart, and when she throw the line out, the dog would pull the line in because you're progressing and showing you what you need to do. So this looks six month old, which is pretty young to get it usually it's around a two year old that can do it, right. She got it but the 10 year old that she had for the 10 for the last 10 years, she has been trying to get the 10 year old to do something and the dog just looks at her like forget it. But recently, she decided that she was going to try to toe the line. And so that was what was also interesting is these dogs are individuals. Yeah. And they have things they love to do and things they don't love to do. And, and in Italy, when I was with the school, they're the students the dogs that were in the school, they were a Labradors and Newfoundlands and golden retrievers, German Shepherds, Italian spinone, Lee and burgers, they're all kinds of breeds of dogs. And they were all involved in learning to swim, putting on distance training like an athlete, right? And it was so interesting, because it was like the novice swimmers. The puppies, were just learning to swim and doing, you know, short distances, then the intermediate swimmers were doing longer distances. And then the elite swimmers. Some of them like the Newfoundlands are swimming up to a mile with their owner. Oh my gosh, so yeah. And and somebody was asking me, you know, why is it important to have dogs on the beach in Italy? You know, you've got lifeguards, why do you need a dog? Well, the new felons can pull in six people at a time. And the Labradors can pull in two or three people, German Shepherds, two people, Golden Retrievers, two people. So it makes a huge difference in the amount of people but also, you've got the dogs that are now watching the water that are alert to what's going on, along with their owner who has volunteered to do this. So and who is also lifeguard trained,
JOHN MOFFET:right, right. So it's, it's it's another set of another set of eyes on the water first and foremost, but it's also muscle out on out in the water, right to really help execute the, the rescue. You know, fascinating tidbit that I learned from your book is that Lewis and Clark had a Newfoundland, on their expedition westward, westward.
Lynne Cox:Yes, his name was Seaman. And he was Louis's dog and companion. But he was also so involved in protecting the expedition, the core of discovery that was heading west to discover the whole West Coast of the United States or the Pacific Northwest. And there were times where seamen defended them from a bear and from Indian attacks, and all sorts of other things. And so he Lewis became very well Meriwether Lewis and seamen became best friends.
JOHN MOFFET:Wow. That's, that's super fascinating. Let's talk specifically about Al a little bit. And as Elsa girl dog, by the way, but in particular about out what captivated you what struck you when you first met Al?
Lynne Cox:When I first met Al, I thought, oh my gosh, she's going to be so hard to train because she was so excited. And so exuberant Donatella came and picked me up at the airport. And an owl is in a crate in the back for safety and had been big crate big crate in the back of a sport utility. So she opened the crate and Al drop jumped out and Donatella right away was telling him to sit and stay but she couldn't contain herself. She was wiggling and jumping, and so excited. And she was two years old. So by two years old, she's supposed to be calmer, but she wasn't. And so I was just thinking, this is gonna be really interesting. This is really going to be fun. Because Donatella was president, vice president of the school, and she had taught so many owners and instructors and dogs. She was a dog whisperer. She really knew how to read them and how to train them and help them out. But her own dog was not listening to her and it was really hard on her. You know, it's like the coach's kid, you know, the coach's kid that doesn't really want to be there and doesn't really want to swim. She wanted to be there. She wanted to participate in everything. And that was really hard because Donatella was trying to get her to focus. Yeah, you know, add dog, you know,
JOHN MOFFET:yeah, yeah. I I can relate in many ways. But, but yes, I'm more than familiar with that swimmer that would rather mess around and distract everybody else rather than swim back and forth and train. So you mentioned that owl was slow to learn, but I believe you mentioned mentioned that she was also stubborn and distractible, and
Lynne Cox:she was her own dog. And and I don't want to spoil the story, because there is there are things that occur during this. And I think the key is that Donatella was totally patient with her and understood that maybe in her own time, just like that 10 year old Newfoundland, that maybe in our zone time, she will understand what she's being asked to do. But Donatella was trying to do everything and also trying to maintain her calmness, and it was really really
JOHN MOFFET:hard really hard on Donatella. Yes, feeling the pressure as well. Well, I'm gonna leave everyone with a bit of a cliffhanger here, then. And we'll, we'll move on, I want to ask you a little bit about your background. Because then it's, I believe it's really important for people to understand your background in your life, the context of your life, when reading owl, or any of your other books. When you were little you lived back east, but then your father had an opportunity here in Southern California. So you moved here when you were how old? 12 years old. You're 12 you're 12. And you found yourself. Back in the 70s. The Southern California swim program, this was this was the Mecca. This was the epicenter for the United States for sure. If not for the world, the greatest swimmers in the world. Were right here and you found yourself smack dab in the middle of them training in Belmont Plaza, which was back then a state of the art pool. And you were also your coach was the legendary Olympic coach Don gambrel, who, by the way, was the head Olympic coach for my first Olympic team. Oh, wow. Yeah. So. So I mean, you must have pinched yourself or like, what were the workouts like for crying out loud? It must have been quite a culture shock for you.
Lynne Cox:He was huge. Although I had had good coaching in New Hampshire, we'd had been Merritt, who had been the Harvard coach who'd come to New Hampshire every day, and we'd swim with him for four hours a day. And my parents realized that my brother and I and my two sisters had potential. So they decided that we could move to California. I mean, we chose as a family to move to California. And my folks decided that they really needed to find a good program for us. Yeah, so we found it, they found it. And, and it was fantastic. But at the same time, you know, to come from New Hampshire and being okay, swimmer. And then suddenly at the ballot Plaza pool, and you're pretty much the last person in lane, you know, and you're just like, oh, my gosh, and then you're looking across the lane. And you're seeing swimmers from all around the world that are the best in the world, the proverbial big pond. Yes. And I was both encouraged and discouraged. Because there's just like, I kept thinking, you know, maybe one day I can be like them. But also, when I couldn't even make the intervals. That was discouraging. And I didn't realize that when I first started swimming under gamble that there were any things called intervals. So I was just swimming the whole time of the workout without stopping, because I couldn't get there in time to take a breath. You know. So eventually, he stopped me and said, What are you doing? Like I'm swimming. I can't keep up with them. He's like, you gotta stop like, Well, yeah, but I'm can't keep up with them. It's like, stop and rest, then you can swim faster, like, Okay,
JOHN MOFFET:well, what happened when you started doing true interval training?
Lynne Cox:I started getting faster. Yeah, it was amazing.
JOHN MOFFET:Don was onto something. Exactly. was amazing. But,
Lynne Cox:but the other thing is that what was so great about Dan Gable was that he recognized that at the end of the workout, I was swimming faster than at the start. And everyone else was like, I'm done. I'm ready to get out. You know, I've done a hard workout. And I'm like, I'm ready to go now. So he was the one that said, Why don't you think about swimming in the ocean? Okay, so he was the one that said, Why don't you swim the Seal Beach rough water swim. So when I was 14, I did I entered the woman's age group came in third in the end, and first in the women's at age 14, first, first session swim. And then I swim that two mile and I get first and that and this one, the one mile, and I get third in that. So it's like it was really great to not be last in the lane. It's like, okay, I can do something kind of better. And so that day I heard about the group of kids that were training to swim Catalina. They've been training for a year. And so I asked Don to talk to Ron black legend coach to the Seal Beach team, and they said I could train with them. So I trained in the ocean with them for six or eight weeks. And then we went to Catalina Island and started at MIT. A night and swam for Palace Verdi's
JOHN MOFFET:as as a as a relay
Lynne Cox:for no individuals. That's an individual. So what you swim as a group, we swim as a group, which I would never recommend again because initially we trained together but you swim at different paces. And so for me, because I've had the great coaching, I was much faster than the other swimmers. So I get ahead, up to like a mile ahead, and then I tread water and wait because you can't hold on to the boat. So at one point, Ron Blackledge, and my folks, my dad actually said, you know, we've agreed, it's okay, if you leave them behind the team behind and go and try to break the record, because you're on record pace. And so before we had started the swim, we had agreed we'd swim together. Yeah, well, so we did
JOHN MOFFET:only have so many following boats. And well, there were two
Lynne Cox:Long Beach lifeguards who had crossed the Catalina channel many times in races, so they were going to peel away from the other boats and row for me to get me across. Okay. But I had agreed to swim with a team. They had let me train with them. They had let me be with them. Let me do the swim with them. So I tread water and wait for them and then continue swimming. It took us 12 hours and 36 minutes in 50 and 57 to 59 degree water. Ouch. And it was a really long swim. And my friends decided they would never swim a channel again. But I decided that you know, we made it and maybe I could do the English Channel.
JOHN MOFFET:Well, that was certainly a good indication of your potential it.
Lynne Cox:It helped. Because, you know, when I was nine years old, a mother that I knew on the team in Manchester, Mrs. Mulligan told me that she saw me swimming and said I think one day or something was channel. So since nine years old that had stuck in my head. And then when I done the Catalina channel at age 14, then I thought, Okay, I need to talk to Mom and Dad, will they help me do the English Channel? And they said yes. And went back to Don. And he helped me train along with Ron Blackledge. And I set the goal of breaking the world record for men and women. And because that was what was going on in the pool beside me, you know, when you've trained and the people you've trained with, when you see how amazing the swimmers are, and you know, you have potential, you want to be like them. So you want to do everything you can to reach that level in your powers. And so gamble gave me that way of adapting the Olympic training into the ocean. So instead of doing 10 100 repeats on a descending interval, I do 10 One mile repeats on a descending interval, you know, or, you know, the same kind of stuff, but, but it was like, Okay, you have to remember that at the end of a channel swim, usually, the tides are changing. So you're gonna have to swim faster at the end than you were at the beginning. So you want to train the way that you're actually going to do the swimmers? Yeah. So yeah, you're gonna be tired. But you know, there are so many people that attempting this channel, way back when I did it, and even before, and even now we'll get within a mile of Cape Renee, or we saw it or the Belgian coast, and the tide changes, and it just sweeps them back out.
JOHN MOFFET:Yeah. And there's in the ocean is immense, the tides are immense, the power is immense. You can't fight that, in fact, you know, a bunch of the people that I swim with and here in Southern California are here today. And, and I think that all of us agree that there's something about surrendering yourself to that immensity to the critters to you know, to all the forces within the ocean. You have to that's where the reset happens. That's for us. I think there's a there's this Zen state that open water swimmers are able to achieve. You've heard obviously, people have talked about the runner's high. But there's also an open water swimming high. There's a there's a force that you tap into,
Lynne Cox:there is but at the same time when you're going for a world record, you're not spending all the time. No. You're like, you're like pushing all the time. And I was so lucky because reg Brickle was my pilot and so it's like, you know, a horse with a jockey the horse wins what without the jockey wouldn't do this. So the same thing with the pilot for the English Channel. He was taken the most channel world record breaking swimmers across and it just happened by chance because we just went through this list of names and he was the first man to answer the telephone when my mom and I went for the English justice for the channel. So reg pick up the phone and then invited us over for some tea and sat down and said, you know, this is my goal. You know, I want to break the world record. He's just like you Hey, really? So but everybody
JOHN MOFFET:looks at you like that. If you say something out absurd,
Lynne Cox:yeah, well, for the normal, you're fortunate when you're 15 years old. That's sort of what they think. Right. But then again, when he heard about the training that I'd done, heard about how extreme like, you know, the group of people that I trained with, heard about my coaching, that gave it credibility. And Annie also heard about how he was training and Folkston, and leftover for the channel. So he asked me my pace time, and he asked me stuff that was really specific. And so I'm thinking, you know, he really knows what he's talking about. This is fantastic. Because, you know, he is the best guy.
JOHN MOFFET:So you want you want your captain to be a teammate to Right,
Lynne Cox:right. But also, the captain of the boat isn't a huge position where he has to decide whether or not to pull you, there's an observer along on the swim, who's watching you to make sure you're safe. But at some point, the captain and the observer talk, and if you're looking like you're flailing, or you're going into hypothermia, they pull you out of the water. So your friends, but they're also in a position where they have to, you know, pull back from that friendship, and realize that if you're in danger out of the water, yeah, well, I mean, yeah, but it's not always easy to discern that, you know,
JOHN MOFFET:of course not, because you're going to want to keep going. And as athletes, especially as an endurance athlete, trying to break world records, you push yourself to limits that the body is not necessarily designed to be living in,
Lynne Cox:right. But also, if you've done the training in the wintertime in 48, or 50 degree water, then you've already started to adapt or acclimate to the water temperature. So the pushing then becomes, how can you maintain that pace for all the all that time, and then at the end, when you see shore and the currents pushing you backwards, and you thought you were gonna finish now, now you have to start sprinting? And that is the hardest part where you're just like, Okay, this could just all go away right now. And so that's when you have to draw on everything. And there's, it's just you're fighting, you're really working. You understand, you know, you know what it was like to get to that other side before everyone else, the same things going on. But you've got the force of nature pulling around around you, and you've just got to keep going humbling. Absolutely, yeah.
JOHN MOFFET:Absolutely. Want to ask you about your second book, Grayson? Oh, it's a wonderful book. It's a story about a different type of mammal, not, it was a story about a baby gray whale. And to me, it's almost like a true life fable. And the sorts and this happened when you were just a teenager as well, right when you're 1817 1717. So you're a high schooler training.
Lynne Cox:I was a high schooler I was training to go back and swim to Catalina again, and I was at that point, trying to go back and swim it solo, and go for the record. Okay, so I was working off off Seal Beach primarily, but also Huntington Beach, Laguna Beach, and also to other places, but my main training area was swimming between the pier in Seal Beach and neither one of the jetties
JOHN MOFFET:Right, right, so So you are doing that usual swim it was it was still dark as before dawn, correct. Right. I was what was your first inkling that there was something happening? Well, I
Lynne Cox:suddenly felt something large swimming underneath me. And the water was pitch black, and I could feel it moving. And I got a little scared. And I thought, you know, maybe I should swim a little closer to shore. So I did. Yeah. And then I moved a little closer, just sort of outside the wave break thinking that maybe if it's a shark, I need to get out of the water. Yeah. But I kept swimming because I thought you know, if you can't make us for a workout and then you're gonna swim on the Catalina channel at night, and you feel something moving underneath you right then you're not gonna make it across Kelly the channel at night. So you got to be aware of what's going on. But at the same time, you can't freak yourself out.
JOHN MOFFET:Well, yeah, it's really easy to give yourself the creeps. Oh, absolutely. The Ocean during the daylight my dark it was
Lynne Cox:giving me the creeps. But so I swam as fast as I could back to the pier. And there was all fishermen that worked on the pier named Steve, who would watch over me while I was swimming. And he explained that I had a baby whale following me that had it had been lost. And it couldn't find his mom and I could not swim to shore because it might follow me and go to shore and ground yourself each itself Yeah, and then die. So he said you just need to stay out here and help him find his mom.
JOHN MOFFET:And, and, okay, so the sun is rising at some point during all of this, but the water is cold.
Lynne Cox:The water is cold. It was March so it's probably mid 50s at the most.
JOHN MOFFET:Let me let me for those who don't understand what mid 50s feels like. Mid water in the mid 50s You go in and It takes your breath away, the normal human could only survive for a matter of 1520 30 minutes before getting hypothermia. And no, actually
Lynne Cox:everyone's different. And it depends on if you've been five min. Okay, well, then that's when you said the normal swimmer. I object to that, because it implies that I see swimmer, but also not the normal. Because, you know, if you look at these open water swimmers there, it's not about being abnormal. It's really about being trained. Well, yes, yes. Because they say the normal person. Well, that implies that were really abnormal.
JOHN MOFFET:I would like to make the argument that there is an element of abnormal seats to breaking world records. Oh, yeah, you're right. And to aspiring to all of these grand adventures that you have aspired to, but,
Lynne Cox:but who wants to be mainstream? I mean, who wants to do it all their life in the pool or the backyard pool? What kind of adventure is that? I mean, you've been there. You've seen the black line for a long time. And you've been probably choose graded your hands on the lane lines, right? Yeah. So there's a sense of absolute freedom when you're out there.
JOHN MOFFET:There is there is and it's, it's I'm glad that I've rediscovered it, thanks to the pandemic. And thanks to pools being closed here and to friends in Southern California and to all the friends that were able to experience these things. Right. So, let's talk a little bit about how this story with Grayson, who was the baby Great, well, how did you eventually how did it come to an end? Because what do you do with a baby gray whale? How big is it 1017 feet long? Holy moly, it
Lynne Cox:was it was coming up from Mexico, it probably had been born a few months before. Yeah, so it was totally reliant on his mom for survival, right. And their course was to go up the coast to California and up to Oregon, Washington and up into the Bering Strait. So apparently, this is not uncommon that the baby whale can get distracted and suddenly is lost. And that's why you hear about baby will suddenly in Huntington Beach Harbor area or other places because they get separated. So Steve told me that I just need to stay out there with the baby well, but he didn't stay in one place. You know, he started swimming. And I had been told my folks never like go beyond the pier. So the baby will start to swim your folks being your parent. My parents don't like don't swim because I was working on my own. Back then it was what it was okay to do that. So I was swimming beyond the pier and going further out and getting out sort of near the oil island off Seal Beach, which no longer is there. Right, right. But I had gone all the way out there. And I'm thinking this is kind of like a mile and a half. There's about a mile and a half out there. Exactly. But
JOHN MOFFET:and you were basically you were falling the whale or the whale was telling you
Lynne Cox:I was both I'd go. He started going on. I followed him. He swim around me. We were out there for three, four hours, the lifeguard boat at that time of year. And the relationship between the Long Beach lifeguards and the Seal Beach was that the Long Beach lifeguard boats would come in patrol Seal Beach. And so they came over and checked on me and again it was just like, you know, Lynne, you might want to get closer to shore because you're not very visible out here. And I'm thinking yeah, I get it. Like this is not smart. But I've got this baby. Well, it's lost
INTRO:Junko. Anyway, we'll be right back with some more sports life balance.
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Lynne Cox:And again, it was just like, you know, Lynne, you might want to get closer to shore because you're not very visible out here. And I'm thinking, yeah, I get it. Like this is not smart. But I've got this maybe well, it's lost. So what they did is they started redoing the people they knew all along the arrow, then the fishermen started calling each other and then they started citing great gray whales moving north because there were other gray whales moving north and then the baby whale would disappear and I decided he was the son of the gray whale so he would be called Grayson. So then I started feeling more connection to him because by then it was like four and a half hours to the swim. Oh my god. And finally, there was a happy ending. I don't know if I should spoil it or not, but there was a good resolution. And the mom was able to find the baby. And the full story was really incredible. Actually, the book has now been translated into 23 languages. And I think it's because, you know, it's a story not just about the whale and about relationships, but also about trust. And also about the beauty of the ocean. Yeah, and being with this little critter that was so big.
JOHN MOFFET:And the Mamaw was, yeah, yeah, really big. I mean, it's, it's startling the first few times that you see a dolphin when, because dolphins are big too. But I can't imagine a whale. Never seen a whale out swimming.
Lynne Cox:I swim with dolphins a number of times in New Zealand and different places along the California coast. And actually, a couple of weeks ago, is when the Alamitos Bay in Long Beach area with my friend, and a mother and baby dolphin popped up about 10 feet away from us. And then it went down under the water, and then another mother and baby popped up. And even then, I mean, I've been around these animals before, but it was like, Okay, I guess it's gonna be okay. You know, and then they just then you watch them swim off. And you just think, Alright, this is one of the reasons why I'm out here.
JOHN MOFFET:Yeah, you know, we've had these experiences several times all of us out there together. We had one just was it last weekend? Yeah, it makes
Lynne Cox:it specialists a mystery. It's a surprise. And you know that they knew you were there all along.
JOHN MOFFET:I also get the feeling that they're messing with you probably. Well, so we talked a little bit about your world records. But to me, I read read your books, and you're also an explorer at heart. What? What drives you to venture into that absorbs the uncertainty, that danger, potential danger? And facing your fears?
Lynne Cox:I think his curiosity, I think it's what's on the other side, how can I get there? But I also think it's all about what are we capable of doing? You know, if you train so hard, and you reach a certain level? If you do something else? What more can you do? Where else can you go? I mean, that's sort of been my story where first you do a swim, then you break a world record, then you use the swim, to explore to do a swim nobody's ever done before. And then you go from there to use a swim to connect countries and other countries and a political reason behind it. So there's, instead of just stuck with swimming, I channel over and over again, which I think is amazing that people can do that. But I think there's more to life than that. I think that we change, we evolve, we want to do new things in our life. And for me, I really enjoy, you know, going to Italy and seeing different parts of the country, and trying Italian food from a different region, and learning about the culture and the music and seeing something new. And there are people that are really happy to be home and I love to come home, I love to be around my friends. But I also like to learn about different parts of the world and perspectives. Because our way of thinking isn't the only way you know you. Yeah, I mean, as an Olympic swimmer, you know, just going to the Olympics, the extraordinary people that you met, and the connections you made and the conversations you've had, is and and because of that you probably have expanded your world of thought,
JOHN MOFFET:Oh, absolutely. It's hard to be. It's it's easy to be enemies with a country like for example, the Soviet Union. But it's very, very difficult to be enemies with these individuals who are wonderful people who are just like
Lynne Cox:us, right? Right. And it's and you have similar goals, you have the similar understanding, you want the same thing, right. But you may just do things differently. And sometimes doing those different things differently makes sense that it's better than what you were doing.
JOHN MOFFET:Well, I would love to be able to talk to you about each one of your fantastic swims. As you chronicled in swimming to Antarctica. I read it for a second time. fascinating book, fascinating book, an anthology, literally an anthology of all your adventures, but when you conquer things like swimming the Strait of Magellan, I remember as a kid, like reading about the Strait of Magellan and how treacherous it is, or surviving a one mile swim in Antarctica in 32 degree water. I mean, you're like I can't even can't wrap my head about around that. How do How did those things those extreme feats of human endurance transform you and what do you find out about yourself by doing those
Lynne Cox:great questions. I am actually was intrigued with the Strait of Magellan, because the first thought is, you know, ships can't get through there. There are so many ships that get wrecked. Yeah. Wouldn't it be amazing to be a human being to be able to do something like that? How could that be done? That was the underlying thought, how could this be possible? And so then you start doing the research and you start reaching out to people, and you start talking to the Chilean Navy and the Coast Guard. And you talk about fishermen that work in live in that area. And then you see what the currents are doing. And then you think, okay, the waters 42 degrees, the coldest I've ever swam in is 48, can I go down to 42, or, you know, actually, I didn't know is 40 Till until I get there. And the first day I get into the water, it was just like, I could just get into the water. So like, unbelievable, to realize I've flown halfway around the world in a way to go from California to Chile, to the tip of Chile, and then wonder, Am I going to be able to do this. So the thought was, okay, if I can get in the water for 20 minutes and just be here, that's 20 minutes. Okay. So tomorrow, of May 20 minutes, I'm gonna go and swim for 20 minutes. Did that, okay, now I made it for 20. The swim is three miles across, probably with all the current. So that's going to take me around an hour, I've got to be able to do at least an hour. And this. So I gradually talked myself into doing it. But the other thing that was so amazing, was that there were people that lived along shore that saw this crazy American swimming in the Strait of Magellan. I mean, they were it was like, there was there was a coach back then more an advisor, John Sonics, and who was walking the beach with me. And people would come out of their homes and just start walking with him. And John didn't speak much Spanish. And they didn't speak much English, but they'd be saying what's going on here. And so he tried to explain that I was training to swim the strait. And because of that, suddenly, they were inviting us into their homes. Oh, my, you know, so here, come in and have some hot chocolate. Let me play Spanish guitar for you. Let me show you what our life is like here in Punta Arenas. And I mean, those things are so valuable. I mean, it's just to be able to have those connections instead of just going through as a tourist. And then to then attempt to swim and realize that you have the Coast Guard from Chile, who are the most amazing pilots that can get ships through that narrow opening, without them running aground or breaking up and having them as your support team. So it's not only just about me doing a swim, it's really about finding the best support team who then gets get excited about being part of it. So that was a lot about that swim, this swim that I did in Antarctica was really bad. Okay, I did 42 You know, what would be more possible what would be more difficult two degrees 42. So I was talking to my friend, Caroline Alexander, who had been on the US triathlon team. And in fact, my sister was a swimmer, and her husband had been a coach for the US Pentathlon team. So Caroline was a very fine swimmer. And so she had just, maybe four or five years ago, had written at that point, had written a book called endurance about Shackleton. And his efforts when they went to the Antarctic, to come across the ocean, I can't remember which one it was to Elephant Island. And because of Shackleton's leadership, all of his crew survived. And so we were talking about a book that she was working on. So I said, Well, what's the water temperature in sub Antarctica? Where Elephant Island is because I thought maybe that would be a really cool swim to do. And she said, Well, you know, of course, you know, 35 degrees in the summertime. And like, Okay, so what's the water off Antarctica in the summertime 32 degrees. So then I thought, well, maybe I could do that instead, you know, it's 10 degrees colder, but maybe it's possible. And then I started thinking, well, that's awfully hard to swim in that maybe I could wear a very light wetsuit, you know, and that way it make it increase the chance of swimming 200 meters. And then I thought smart about it and thought, well, if I wanted to do this, I really think I'd rather do a mile. All right, so that would be a real challenge. But wearing a wetsuit, it's not about the human ability. It's about the technology, technology, right? Right. And you're you're getting more from it, you're getting flotation, you're all these things. So I started thinking about how could I train to do a swim in Antarctica. And that became my big goal. And the other part of this though, is that for many years, I was being researched at diversity University California, Santa Barbara, at the University of London to figure out how I was able to maintain my core temperature keep it elevated and cold water.
JOHN MOFFET:I want to ask you about that in just a second. But first, I want to talk to you specifically about your swam from the United States to the Soviet Union. What made you aspire to go outside the realm of just human achievement and endurance and into the realm of global geopolitical politics?
Lynne Cox:Well, actually, it was in 1976. And at the time, it was the height of the Cold War. Yeah. And my dad had been in the World War Two, and he'd been a corpsman. And so he hadn't had a gun. And he was not about fighting. He was about peace. And so he was the one who said, Why don't you think about swimming across the Bering Strait? Because the United States is 2.7 miles away from the Soviet Union, the two superpowers are side by side neighbors. So he was the one that said, Why don't you think about doing that? So in 1976, I looked at him and said, There's no way I mean, there's no way I can swim on water that cold, I don't even know what the temperature is. And there's no way that I can get political approval to do it. So he said, Well, how do you know until you start looking at it. And so I spent 11 years working on it, wow. And every day for 11 years, trying to reach out to people trying to contact people trying to make any kind of connection to figure out how to get the border open, because that's what it meant doing. And also meant, how do you train for really cold water? So this was before the swim in Antarctica? Yeah. And at that point, I was writing to people all over the place to just find out what the water temperature was. So it ended up being about 3038 30. And at that point, that was just way below anything I'd done. I mean, 42 to 38, doesn't sound like much, but I think it's the difference between going to the moon and Mars four degrees is a lot, you know, yeah. Even when you're in 60, or 64. You know, there's a huge difference, right. And I also wonder that when you start getting into the colder temperature, if there's more of an exponential effect on the body, if you actually cooled down even faster, when you get into a lot cooler water, I don't know that. But I know that the sensation, the effect on the body is a lot more severe. And your reactions, and the way you swim is a lot faster. You're trying to go faster. But actually you're not because you're not able to grasp the water in the same way, you're not able to feel it that way. Right? You know, your hands feel like blocks, right? So I wound up training and kept, kept contacting people and finally was able to get approval to do it. And it was 11 years, 11 years. But but it came from the highest level of the of the Soviet government. It finally came from Gorbachev, and by him getting behind it, then the doors opened. And it was also at a time by coincidence, because that taken 11 years to get to that point. But it was a policy that he was portraying, which was Glasnost openness. Yeah. So he understood that the swim would open the border, that it was about openness, and that it might help to bridge these different distances. And that's what it did. It was really
JOHN MOFFET:incredible, very unique time in history that you probably that was a window, a very narrow window with, with the perspective of history that anybody will be able to do that. Like we couldn't do that now.
Lynne Cox:Well, you couldn't do it now. But it did open a window. And I was told after the Bering Strait swim, that that influenced people in Germany to feel like they could take the Berlin wall down, because they saw the they used to call this the ice curtain that existed between the US, Alaska and the Soviet Union, Siberia. And there were, you know, it was a border. And if anyone passed the border, they were arrested in the Soviet Union. And I suspect so in the United States, but I don't know that for sure. Right. So once the border opened, there were different relations that opened as well. And people saw the swim in the Bering Strait as another opening as a possibility that other things could happen. Um, so I would go on and do a swim in the Spring River. I go to Germany to get permission to swim from East to West Berlin, and went to the British, the Americans, the Germans and the Russians to try to get permission actually, at that point. It was the Soviets. Yeah. And I got permission. But when I actually did the swim, it was about three months after maybe four months after the wall had come down. But the the idea then was to celebrate that opening. And when I did the swim, I had to have the Staci the secret police from East Berlin in boats with me, because the Spree river had been mined. And it also had razor wire in it, where if people from the East Berlin side jumped into the water and tried to swim across, they would hit this razor wire. Oh my heavens, so the boats were patrol the patrol boats They used to patrol the waterway to keep the East Germans from going to the west, or to suddenly now my support crew along with the West Germans to make the swim. So it was incredible to be able to do it. And there was a moment though that we're on the banks below the right stock, you could see 13 crosses, and those were for the people that I tried to jump in and swim across. So it was like incredible sadness, because of all that, but at the same time, celebrating that things are gonna change or changing. Wow. But to get to that point of getting permission and all that, I had to sneak into East Berlin with my West Berlin press crew, and all sorts of stuff that went on that were, it was crazy, but it worked. And
JOHN MOFFET:like I said before, adventures, amazing adventures, right? Lynne is much more than an endurance swimmer. We know that. But when we're just talking to you about these, these things, it's it's really fascinating what amazing feats. We were talking about this in a more abstract away a little bit earlier, but you have it rather let's let's try to say, unique physiology where you write about in swimming in the sink, you write about how you've had a battery of tests in the underwent, that you underwent, so that scientists could try to understand how that you win Cox survives in conditions that would literally kill, right? A person, if they were just to fall into the drink. Even if they're good swimmers, it would kill them.
Lynne Cox:I think that yeah, again, it's all about, you know, what is the mindset of somebody that falls into really cold water? What, how much clothing do they have on? What's their body type? Did they eat before they were in the water? Do they have high calorie content that they can use to burn right? So there are those components of of you know, remember when the the aircraft went down in the Hudson River, and there was a man from the Coast Guard saying that at the most any of those people would survive for 20 minutes. And I got upset because I thought, how can you determine somebody's survival time, you don't know what they're capable of doing. And you know, if they've got clothing on and they've got air between their clothing, that'll act as an insulator, if they can keep their head above water, they're going to have a lot longer survival time than if they let their face go in. Because it's high blood flow area. For me, I was able to swim these very cold waters, because Dr. Keating was doing research on on me at the University of London. And he was finding that if I swam in water 50 degrees, I was able to increase my body temperature a degree or two voluntarily, right, right. In fact, there was one test that I did where I sat in the laboratory, which was awful, in a cold water jacuzzi, where the water is 42 degrees, right. And I was told to just sit there. And after two hours of swimming of sitting, my temperature had increased a degree. So part of it, I think, is the mind, part of it is the body. And then before I went to do the swim in Antarctica, there was so much like, you know, the boats are going in people organizing stuff, people, you know, there's lots of going on. So I asked my friend, Barry Bender, just sort of be interested in charge of all that. And I went back to a cab and started to meditate about what I was going to do. And then I had my doctor friend take my temperature, my normal temperature was about 97, it had gone up to 102. So I think that my body was thinking my mind was going, Okay, you're getting into real cold water, and you need to be ready. And my body was reacting that way. Is it?
JOHN MOFFET:Is it something innate to you and your body to be able to do that? Or do you think it's a combination of that, and your pure will to get through it and your body figuring out a way to survive
Lynne Cox:it, I think it's the mind body connection that you can, you can do so much more with your body and mind and sink, but also, physiologically I was suited for the cold water, you know, I have extra body fat. I also when I was swimming was swimming at 80% Max. So that meant that I was really creating heat as I was swimming. The other thing they found out about me is that I was able to close down the blood flow to the peripheral area, everyone does that close it down. But at some point, they start to open it up to allow the blood to circulate through their body. And by doing that the cool blood on the outside starts to go into the core, and that causes your temperature drop. My body worked differently. It just closed down the skin and the blood flow and surface to make it act like a wetsuit. And it did not go well. They said my new blood flow so that cold blood didn't didn't come into the court at least it trickled in. Yeah, but it didn't come in like you. There's a certain point where it starts to serve Jen and people relate their temperatures drop. So at the end of the swim though, for anyone who's been in cold water, that becomes a risky or even maybe possibly dangerous part, because you've stopped exercising. And now you vasodilate you open up all the peripheral areas and all that cold blood on the exci outside starts to go in all your internal organs start getting cold, right? And so that's when you see, when somebody is finished a swim. You'll start seeing them shiver maybe and you might see them shiver harder and harder because
JOHN MOFFET:we we do it every time we get out practically. Standing on the beach, shivering
Lynne Cox:Yeah, yeah. So one of the things I did for this woman, Antarctica that I do now is that I drank 14 ounce glasses of really warm water, because I thought think of your body as a thermos. Yeah. And you want to heat the thermos before you go into the water. So drink not huge amounts of water, but for because also there's a diuretic effect of being in the cold water, right, your blood volume is trying to reduce itself, so it can move in and protect the vital organs. So it may not be a great idea. But I found that it worked for me to drink for me to drink the eight ounces of 48 ounce glasses of water. And then now before I get in the water, in the wintertime when the water drops to about 52 or 54, I was drinking like a 16 ounce glass of water just to be hydrated, and realize that it was really dumb that it was cold water. And so I was dropping my temperature before I even got in the water. So now I'm drinking a big glass of warm water before I get in the water, and just those little tiny things, but they all make a difference. And it's sort of like you know, when you just know how to push off the wall a little bit better, or you turn a little faster or you don't look here, same kind of thing with the upper water swimming is there's just little things that you learn, that allow you to do a little bit more
JOHN MOFFET:well, and life is that way as well. Right? It's a great lesson for life is that if you're trying to be the best you can be. It's like those, as the better you get the more incremental and tiny those those refinements are exactly, but they're necessary,
Lynne Cox:they're necessary. But at the same time, I think it's so important to give yourself space to not quite make it there and to reevaluate and to relax about it to mean because you can't be uptight about it the whole time. If you're, you know, when you're training, there's this, this routine that you go through and certain things you want to achieve. But there's also something to say for relaxing and resting to recover from what you've done. And in the long time that I've trained, and even now, I will always take at least a day off a week, just to do something different so that I come back refreshed, or with a different mindset or something to think about. Because for me swimming is a time to really think, you know, when I was writing this book, I was waking up at three in the morning, full of ideas, writing for four hours, then going to swim and thinking about what I'd written if it was what I wanted to say. And then re evaluating and coming back and editing it for a couple more hours. And then putting it aside, going on whatever whatever needed to be done. And the next day, I'd wake up at three morning again, ready to go. So I've never had that experience before. But I think it was because I was writing a story that was a really happy story at a time when things had not been so happy. You know where the world has sort of shut down? Yeah, it was it was a time where I could write something that was really positive something
JOHN MOFFET:that you could celebrate something that could uplift you as you're doing it. Yeah, that that makes sense. And it also goes back to what I was saying about finding that Zen in the water to finding finding a piece. And yeah, and you think you're in your own head and stuff gets worked out? Yes, you do. stuff gets worked out. Well, this is a great time to to go back to tales of how the water rescue dog. Throughout the book, you also reflect upon your own stories and your love for dogs and the role that they played in your life. You specifically I want to ask you about a magical day where you went body surfing with with three Newfoundlands at Emerald Cove, I believe right and we're gonna which is one of the most beautiful beaches on the planet. But you went body surfing with three Newfoundlands I love the names Otis pork and beans. Describe the day, bodysurfing with Otis pork and beans.
Lynne Cox:That hadn't been the intention at all. The idea was just to go swimming with them. So we had gone swimming with him about a mile maybe a mile and a half. And they were right beside me. I mean, Otis was on one side pork was on their side and beans, beans, who was all called also called beanie. She was behind me. And so it was the weirdest thing though. like swimming with your swim mates, you know, but they were, they were head up and swimming, and I was swimming freestyle. And they stayed right with me. Like I was part of the pack and it was so much fun. So we came back across the bay and I was just thinking, you know, how far can these dogs swim? Have they done this before? You know, are we pushing it too far? And so I finished the swim with them. And then they were looking at me like, like, don't you want to do this again? Like, come on. Okay. So I'm thinking, Okay, let's go back. I worried about you. They were worried about me, but they, the waves were starting to come up. Haha. So we went back out into the ocean, and they started body surfing with me. And I had never seen this before. And so when Brian the owner came back from his holiday, I asked, you know, is this what they do? And he said, Yes, all the time. Wow. They're the best body surfers. And so but if you think about it, they were so perfectly built to be body surfers, because the their chests are like heels. Oh, no. And so they're streamlined underneath. And then their paws are really big, like bear paws. And they're webbed so they could feel and they could see. And they could sense in the distance, the line that you see when the when the waves come in close. And then they would start moving. And you could see them paddling, and they were riding the waves. It was crazy. But it was so much fun. And we bought a surfer. I don't even know how long. But there was a point where it's like, Okay, you guys,
JOHN MOFFET:you're making pizza, I'm
Lynne Cox:tired, I'm tired, it's going?
JOHN MOFFET:Well, there are a number of those very charming and heartwarming stories that you include in your book about you. And in that way, it's a bit of a memoir in that in that it is it is about you and your experience and love for dogs. Back in back in Italy. You were you're actually there when owl went to her rescue dogs certification test. And you mentioned in the book that Donatella, Al's trainer was really nervous,
Lynne Cox:she was really nervous, because if l didn't pass this test, then there may be a year or two longer for them to have to wait until she'd be able to do it again. So there was a whole lot of pressure on Donatella to to see what happened. And I really don't want to give it away. No, that's a big part of the story. Because the other thing is that, you know, you saw her working so hard with this dog. And they really wanted to achieve a level of being a certified water rescue dog. And they had to have that certification from the Gaudiya Costera, which is the Italian coast. Yeah, right. And so it was really interesting, because you know that the Gardea Coast area is always training themselves. They're always getting prepared, I was prepared as our coast guard's motto. And so Semper Prentice is our coast guard's model, they were the same way. So they wanted to make sure that if they had a rescue dog water rescue dog, on their ship, or their boat, that they were able to fulfill the task at hand. So there were a couple of crew of the captain and the and the crew, the mate on board, one of these boats along with US Coast Guard boats, who were really skeptical of having al on board. And the thing that was so funny, though, is that, you know, part of the Italian coast guard job is and same with our Coast Guard is to maintain the safety of the ports to make sure that ships that aren't don't go into certain areas and voters and yachters don't. And there was one instance where I was on board, one of the Coast Guard boats and a yacht yachtsman had strayed into the wrong water. So the Coast Guard was going over there to give the captain a ticket. And he was so angry. He was really ticked off. But after the Coast Guard man gave him the ticket, he then noticed owl, and suddenly he brightened up. And then he started speaking in Italian and asking about the dog and how long they had it and why it was there. And all the tension sort of just dissipated. So we I had met Admiral and Rossano, who was the admiral in charge of this part of the Coast Guard in Italy. And he absolutely loved the dogs because he saw them as a mascot, but alive mascots that people really adored. Yeah. And he encouraged this collaboration between the Italian water rescue Italian water rescue dog school, and the Italian coast guard. But it turns out that they didn't just work with a Coast Guard. There were times where they would work also with the Italian Air Force. And I just thought that is so cool because again, you have extra set of eyes, on the water or on the land and And, and they make a bit and they make a big difference, you know?
JOHN MOFFET:Yeah, yeah. And, and I will, I will tell you that the, the ending is very, very satisfying. And there are plenty of lessons about us and humans and dogs and that we can carry with us. And it's a wonderful story. And to me, tales of owl, and you tell me if I'm correct on this, but it's almost a love letter of sorts to dogs.
Lynne Cox:It is a love letter to dogs and to people and to celebrating swimming. And the joy that we get from dogs and from each other from being in the water and doing swims together. And so one of the coolest things that happened when I was in Italy was that the dogs just wanted to swim with me. They didn't care if the water was wavy or hot, or they were tired, it didn't matter. They just wanted to go swimming with me. And so you know, when you have a swimming, buddy, they're often like that, but sometimes they aren't. Yeah, and so with a dog, you just knew you could go now, and you'd have that enthusiasm to get get you going and keep you going. They just loved swimming. They just loved it. And it's it's but it's also so cool when you have a friend like that you swim with in the ocean, or in a pool, if you can get back into pool.
JOHN MOFFET:Well, anyway, I'm thankful to have my friends here that they get to pick me out there. And we all have a great time. Well, Lynne, thank you again, for being here. Preparing for this, it gave me a great excuse to re explore your life through your books, and to share some of your stories with everyone here tonight. So thank you again.
Lynne Cox:Thank you very much, John. Thank you, Nikki.
JOHN MOFFET:Today, Lynne would like to leave you with a concise pearl of wisdom from her late father Albert. He would tell her do your research before you decide if something is possible. And that's some sage advice for all of us planning our upcoming adventures. In the meantime, for a fascinating read, go pick up Lynne Cox's new book tales of owl the rescue water dog. And while you're at it, check out Lynne's other seven books including The New York Times bestsellers swimming to Antarctica, and Grayson. I'm John Moffet. If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to give us your five star review. And as always, tell your friends thanks for joining us and see you next week.
INTRO:We hope you enjoy this episode of sports life balance