S3 E13 “Comfortable + Confident in Being Unique” – feat. Misty Copeland

Raised in Poverty + Dance Prodigy = Black Principal American Ballet Theater

On this episode of SLB, John Moffett speaks with Ballet Prodigy, Best-Selling Author, and the first African American Principal Dancer for the American Ballet Theater, Misty Copeland. 

Tune in to hear Misty tell her story, including her childhood adversities, her experience being a minority in the dance industry, and her path to success. 

Learn more about Misty by visiting https://mistycopeland.com/
And check out her books: https://mistycopeland.com/store/

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Transcript

Craig Hummer: 0:00

Welcome back to sports life balance.

Misty Copeland: 0:04

Stepping into ballet and seeing myself in the mirror. And seeing results from the work I was putting in. was so encouraging to me. And it gave me this, this confidence and and it made me feel like wow, like I am good at something. You know, though I got good grades in school, like I didn't feel that I thrived in school because it didn't, I wasn't learning in a way that I needed to. And that's what the arts and that's what dance and ballet gave to me. It gave me a way into expanding and challenging my mind in in a way that I needed to. But yeah, stepping into the studio for the first time. It was like a very magical moment. That just made me feel like I am and can be more than my circumstances.

JOHN MOFFET: 1:02

That's Misty Copeland, ballet prodigy, Best Selling Author and the first African American principal dancer for the American Ballet Theatre. I'm John Moffitt, and thanks for joining us today on Sports life balance. Misty grew up poor with six brothers and sisters in the Southern California port town of San Pedro. As a teenager, her family lived in a hotel and dancing was an escape from her troubles at home. Misty is one in a million talent led her to the world renowned American Ballet Theatre in New York City, just three years after she stepped into her first ballet studio. But for her first decade at the abt, Misty was the only black dancer. This unsettling reality eventually became her lifetime calling thanks to her mentors who showed her that there is great power in being an African American principal ballerina. And today, Misty has become a mentor and living example for future generations of ballet dancers everywhere. Let's get going. Well, Misty, needless to say, I'm absolutely thrilled that you're joining me today on Sports life balance.

Misty Copeland: 2:16

Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here.

JOHN MOFFET: 2:19

And you know, I know it says sports. It's in my podcast title. But I believe that ballet dancers are some of the greatest athletes on Earth. And I can't wait to dig in.

Misty Copeland: 2:31

I think I agree with you. It takes it takes, you know so much to to be an artist and an athlete in one.

JOHN MOFFET: 2:41

Yeah. And me being a swimmer. Certainly there's a less artful endeavor. But, but yeah, and I I'm looking forward to talking a lot about the cross sections of all athletes, all athletes share in their careers. Because so much of your story is a universal athlete story is as well as a performer story. So I'd like to start at the beginning. You grew up in San Pedro, I'm here in Southern California, I spent a lot of time in Long Beach. And it's it's right next to Long Beach as one of six kids what was little misty like?

Misty Copeland: 3:19

Well, by the by the time we got to San Pedro, you know, I was born in Kansas City, Missouri, we moved to Southern California when I was two years old, my mom by herself with four kids, she remarried two more times and had two more kids. By the time I was seven and reached San Pedro. I felt like that was the first place I really considered home. It was the where I stayed the longest there was there was a lot of moving. Throughout my the course the first seven years of my life, and a lot of instability. You know, not always having a home that was ours. We were often sleeping in other people's houses or apartments. And San Pedro was where I found the Boys and Girls Club was where I was in elementary school, in middle school in high school. So that gave me a sense of self that I hadn't possessed up until that point. But I was still extremely shy and introverted. And struggling to find where I fit in, in the world, you know, within my own family dynamics, being a middle child being the fourth of six did not help me expand my confidence and voice in any way. And my mother was so busy that you know, there wasn't a lot of you know, kind of one on one encouragement and nurturing. So I really found I found this sense of like Safety and Security in music in listening to music, which was often played around my household. You know, the, the I feel like that was like our way of communicating, were through songs and lyrics, like, between my family members, you know, certain certain musicians or singers that we liked and, and songs that meant something to us like that was our way of expressing ourselves. And that would eventually evolve into movement. That, you know, movement was my way of, of expressing myself to the music. And that's how I ended up auditioning for the drill team in my middle school, which kind of sparked sparked everything for me, but it gave me a different purpose and an inner confidence that I that I didn't have. Well, and

JOHN MOFFET: 5:51

that's one of the magic, things about discovering your athleticism. I won't say sports because I can't categorize ballet as a sports but you do find your voice. How did you end up becoming like finding ballet specifically?

Misty Copeland: 6:10

Yeah. I I knew nothing about ballet, I'd never heard classical music. I knew that my mom My mom took ballet lessons when she was little and, and she also took tap and jazz and all that. And she cheered professionally for the Kansas City Chiefs football team. So there was, you know, this interesting intersection of dance and athletics in my household. We were such a big sports household. But um, but so I was familiar that you know, she had taken ballet, but I knew nothing about it. When I auditioned for the for the drill team at my middle school, there was a coach of the of the drill team who to this day, well, she became my godmother. And to this day is we're very close. I'm Elizabeth Cantine, who saw potential in me, she made me Captain of the drill team, I had no dance experience at all. And she said, You know, I think that there's more you can be doing than dancing on this drill team. So she introduced me to a friend of hers who had a local Ballet School in San Pedro, San Pedro Dance Center, it was called at the time and, and she happened to be teaching a free ballet class at the Boys and Girls Club where I was already a member and would go after school when my mother was working. And from there, you know, I was not really interested in taking this class I was so I felt fulfilled in a sense. The being on this drill team, I was a part of a community for the first time and I was enjoying dancing to this music that was familiar to me. It was like hip hop and r&b and pop music. So why would I go and do dance to this classical music that well, no connection to what I was forced into taking this class. So that first class I took was actually on a basketball court. And I was in my gym clothes and the teacher there, Cynthia Bradley. She said she knew from the moment she placed her hand on my foot is how she tells a story that she knew I was a prodigy and begged me to come to her school, she offered me a full scholarship, which was the purpose of her being there at the Boys and Girls Club was to find more diverse students to bring into her school.

JOHN MOFFET: 8:30

And you would eventually you mentioned Cindy Bradley, you would eventually live with her to make it easier for you to attend school and attend practice and things like that. You really became part of their family.

Misty Copeland: 8:45

Yes, yeah. It was such a unique experience. For someone who comes from the experience in the background that I come from, it's not so unique, I guess for a professional athlete, actually, or a professional performer. You know, a lot of young, talented artists and athletes go off and, you know, will will live with their coaches or they will go to you know, schools that are art schools or whatever it is. So it's not unique to that experience. But it was for specially for my family and the community that I came from. But Cynthia, within, I guess a couple of months of training. She knew that I had what it took to become a professional. So she invited me to come live with her and her three year old son and her husband, and I ended up living with them for three years. She pulled me out of public school and I ended up doing independent studies, homeschooling so that I could catch up on all the training I had missed because 13 which is how old I was when I started ballet is very late to to take up, you know, such a rigorous, you know, art form. arm that takes years and years of practice so that the technique is ingrained in your body. So then you can start to evolve into an artist.

JOHN MOFFET: 10:09

Yeah, and you've mentioned community several times, and, and community with, it's a universal of all the athletes that I've spoken through throughout sports life balance, it comes up community, and that you can't, you can't you can't excel, you can't create your dreams, unless you have that community support.

Misty Copeland: 10:31

Yeah, 100%. And that's always meant so much to me, you know, especially first within, you know, the black community, having having the support. But with that, you know, there needed to be an understanding that, that this wasn't an art form that we could all be a part of. And something that's been so amazing for me, throughout my career has been the support that I've gotten from my community, that, you know, I've kind of become their ballerina. And that is this kind of hope, that this is what we could be, and not just so isolated and specific to ballet, but that we could be anything that exists in these places where we don't see ourselves. So community is definitely very important to me. And then, you know, also coming into the ballet culture, and, and feeling a sense of community within the ballet world, especially at a young age that I'd never experienced before. Where you find this camaraderie. And, you know, even though I had my advice, I've had my adversity and ups and downs as a professional at American Ballet Theatre, the community that's, that's created within a company. It's like, it's like a team. It's like a sports team. And I don't think that people really understand the intricacies in kind of insider lens of what it is to be in a ballet company. But you know, when you're in the court of ballet, and you're one of I don't know, I think there's maybe 45 girls in the quarter ballet or something, there might be 36 on the stage, and you're all dancing in unison, and it is the most mentally challenging and physically challenging things to do and, and to kind of share the same breath and experience and pain. You know, it's like being a part of a team. And it's an incredible thing that I wish every child could experience.

JOHN MOFFET: 12:32

Me too. And I just believe wholeheartedly the power of sports and athletics and valet, it's transformative to kids. It certainly can be transformative. I want to move on to an excerpt from your memoir, Life in Motion. And at 15 years old, you had you had really sort of skyrocketed into the ranks of being one of the great dance teenage dancers and you were you were in the, I believe was the finals of the spotlight awards. And you you had a hard time completing all of your fuetes? Is that the way you say it?

Misty Copeland: 13:11

Fuetes

JOHN MOFFET: 13:11

Fuetes. Sorry. Please excuse my ballet bumbles. But but but but it's a staple of ballet moves. It's the ballet move that you see when you open up a jewelry box in the little bow? Right?

Misty Copeland: 13:30

Yes, absolutely.

JOHN MOFFET: 13:32

Well describe how you, with the help of Cindy, because you couldn't connect all those in your it's right before your rehearsal right before your performance? How you with the help of Cindy, change both your routine and your mindset.

Misty Copeland: 13:45

Yeah, I love that you're getting into this because it's so important, you know, the emotional mental state that you're in, so vital to a performance, you know, the same as an athlete prepares to, to compete and to perform, you know, it's the same, it's same, same similar preparations as as an artist and as a dancer. And, you know, I was learning and discovering this at a young age, I don't even dancing for, you know, under two years when I made it to the finals of this very important arts competition in Southern California, called the music center spotlight awards. And I, you know, I'd never been a part of something like this. It was I've never experienced nerves going on stage. And this was the first time that it was something different. It wasn't just about me performing and making the audience happy, but it was competing and I've never experienced something like that. And so, you know, the nerves got the got the best of me and in my dress rehearsal, I could not put form the Forte's, which come at the end of the performance, it's like the big finale. And my, my teacher, Cynthia took me into, you know, we tried to find a private space in this, like theater where everyone was excited, and people from different genres of the arts are competing and preparing and she took me down to the garage underneath the theater. And she, you know, had a talk with me and just said that, you know, it's not, what we're doing is, is showing all of your potential as a performer and as an artist, and it's not about these technical feats. It's about you know, telling a story. And, and so she turned the music on in the car, and, and re choreographed to the end. And this was like, I don't know, an hour or two before my, before I competed, and she re choreographed it, and we, you know, tried it out in the parking lot. And I was like, Alright, I can do this and went on stage a couple of hours later, and I won.

JOHN MOFFET: 16:13

Well, and it's, it's such a, I love this story. And I take this excerpt because it's such a, again, a universal lesson that let's face it, stuff happens in in life. And improvisation is, is vital, because you can't, you can't control the unexpected

Misty Copeland: 16:32

100% And I, I learned even more of, of what that means, like later in my career working with prints, you know, the power of being able to, you know, be on your toes. And, and, and be able to improvise and adjust to what happens in live theater, those elements that you that are out of your control. And I learned to enjoy it. Like that's one of my favorite parts of performing is like, what's gonna happen, and I'm up for the challenge of what that recovery will look like if there is a mistake, or whatever it may be.

JOHN MOFFET: 17:15

Well, needless to say, because of the spotlight awards, and other things that you were able to accomplish your performances were really getting the attention of, not only throughout LA, but but also the world. And it was opening up for you describe what that felt like when you were when I remember a passage in your book that you looked into a mirror and you realize, Wow, I'm good. I can I have potential. And that's a that's a magic moment in the development of a young adult or child.

Misty Copeland: 17:49

Yeah, it was just so fascinating, because I, I was always very comfortable in my skin in terms of like, you know, being biracial being a mixed, mixed woman being a being a black woman, you know, whereas there are a lot of a lot of young people, especially that struggle, in terms of that identity. I was always very clear that, you know, I'm a black woman, this is how the world is going to receive me. But, but I was still so uncomfortable in my skin and so many other ways. And what's so interesting is stepping into valet and seeing myself in the mirror, and seeing results from the work I was putting in was so encouraging to me, and it gave me this, this confidence, and it made me feel like wow, like I am good at something. You know, though I got good grades in school. Like I didn't feel that I thrived in school because it didn't, I wasn't learning in a way that I needed to. And that's what the arts and that's what dance and ballet gave to me. It gave me a way into expanding and challenging my mind in in a way that I needed to. But, but yeah, stepping into the studio for the first time. It was like a very magical moment. That just made me feel like I am and can be more than my circumstances.

JOHN MOFFET: 19:28

Let's fast forward to New York City and the American Ballet Theatre. I mean, it has to be any young ballerinas dream and it had to have been like in your young teenage life. Your ultimate goal tell me about when you finally made it there.

Misty Copeland: 19:45

It was my dream from the moment I stepped into the ballet studio. My teacher Cindy was very intentional about the company the ballet company she was exposing me to Um, she made sure that I knew, and saw all of the dancers that at American Ballet Theatre understood their history, because she felt that as a black girl, that was probably going to be my best shot at an elite ballet company, though they hadn't had a lot of black dancers, and certainly hadn't had a black woman become a principal dancer, they were the most diverse in terms of culture, you know, whereas a lot of these elite ballet companies in London or in Russia, wherever they may be, they have a ballet school, where all the students kind of are from that place, they trained in that technique. And then they get into the company, if you're an outsider, you're not getting into that school, and you're not getting into that company. So abt was a place that she saw, I could, I could have potential a potential career. So that was my dream, literally, from 13 years old, when I started dancing. Abt was my goal. So to actually get a contract was mind blowing. I remember graduating high school and just being like, peace, I gotta go to New York. It was, it was life changing and exciting. But what was shocking, was, you know, I was so excited to come from a culturally diverse place, like, you know, Southern California and San Pedro, and move to New York, where, you know, I was like, I'm gonna be surrounded by these different cultures and communities and, and it was so exciting, different types of artists. And then reality hit that I was spending, you know, five to six days a week, eight hours a day, in the studio, and in a building, only surrounded by white people. And that was when it hit me just how rare it was to be in the position I was in. That wasn't something that was often talked about when I was training. You know, the big story was the fact that I came from, you know, nothing, I was living in a motel and then I became this ballet prodigy, it wasn't the fact that I was a black girl or, you know, a black woman. So that kind of became this new identity for me, where I was the only I was the only black woman in American Ballet Theatre for the first decade of my career. So, you know, this kind of fantasy I had of what a ABT was going to be like, wasn't all that I thought it was going to be. I mean, of course, there were the credible. I mean, being on stage with these legends that I grew up admiring, you know, Paloma Herrera was my idol and, and on how Korea and Julie Kenton, Susan Jaffe, all of these incredible artists, I was sharing the stage with and getting to travel the world performing. But at the same time, I wasn't getting challenged, I wasn't being given opportunity. And, you know, there was just a lot of, you know, micro aggressions by, you know, because I was a black woman in this white European art form that I was not anticipating and not ready for.

JOHN MOFFET: 23:13

Describe the article in The New York Times, then. I guess you were about 10 years into your abt career, something like that. The New York Times wrote an article a feature article, where are all the black swans? What did that article highlight and expose for you? And the place that you were at at that point? That Abt?

Misty Copeland: 23:35

Yeah, you know, these are conversations that have come and gone. Since valet existed, I'm sure. But nothing's ever really done about it. I mean, the lack of diversity in classical ballet, so this article was a bigger deal than it had been in, in other, you know, mentions or conversations around this topic. It was the first time in one place that several of the top Valley companies in America will globally but, but specifically in America, were called out for not having black dancers for not, you know, giving opportunities to black dancers and acknowledging that they're out there. Because that's always the first excuses is that there aren't enough to choose from. And this so this was, you know, something I realized, I mean, I was sitting there alone at ABT for as long as I was, but but to step back and see the bigger picture of this history, you know, even to the you know, they called out the fact that when Dance Theatre of Harlem went under which they were not in existence for seven years. Where did all those black classically trained Ballet dancers go nowhere.

JOHN MOFFET: 25:02

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Misty Copeland: 26:12

But to step back and see the bigger picture of this history, you know, even to the you know, they called out the fact that when Dance Theatre of Harlem went under which they were not in existence for seven years, where did all those black classically trained ballet dancers go nowhere, they had to stop dancing become modern dancers, I mean that this is unbelievable. So it opened my eyes in my mind to the fact that I was a part of something so much bigger than I thought, you know, I often just looked at myself as one of you know, one of 8090 dancers at American Ballet Theatre that were so fortunate to be a part of this elite company in this tradition in this history. But in reality, I was a part of this black ballerina history that needed to, to continue. And so I felt like I had a bigger responsibility and purpose than I realized I had. And from there, it was just kind of like, okay, this is, this is what my mission is. And my purpose is to be able to really dig deeper and have conversations about these things.

JOHN MOFFET: 27:31

Did you we talk about community earlier to do you feel as though you had the support from your community? Or maybe were you feeling like you're a bit alone and in in DBT,

Misty Copeland: 27:43

I definitely felt isolated and alone. You know, I remember, I don't even think I truly understood the emotions I felt around reading the article. But going to work, you know, like I was explaining earlier, just the, the camaraderie you feel when you're a part of a ballet company. And so, you know, I expected to have this that same support that I feel when I'm on the stage with these dancers, when I went to share what I was feeling about this article, and I did not get the response, I was anticipating and expecting, you know, I think I just got a lot of you know, is that is, was this article kind of blown out of proportion is this is this really like the reality because it's your reality is it's how you feel kind of doubting the magnitude of the issue, which was so devastating and hurtful to me. And over the years, you know, it's it's taken, it's taken support and mentoring, for me to understand how to deal in situations like that, and how to have conversations with people who don't have that experience, and have it in, in in a way that's, that's, you know, going to actually make change, and not just kind of be like a blame game. It's, it's been another part of my training is how to navigate in a white space as someone who's other.

JOHN MOFFET: 29:34

I mean, I've found in my life and I believe you you have read that you have felt felt the same way that there's oftentimes when you're feeling really down or having having a difficult time that oftentimes in life, there's an antidote that comes along. And prints you mentioned is was kind of that antidote where he reached out to you so that you could collaborate with him. By the way, yes, that Prince, you know, the band, you know, the prolific guitarist, songwriter, singer. Tell Tell me about that and how that relationship developed.

Misty Copeland: 30:11

Yeah. So I found out, I heard through a friend of mine that he had been trying to contact me, and what I heard, and we eventually would have these conversations, and he never would really share. He was so mysterious, the way that he like the way that he came across to America to the world. That's how he was he was very mysterious that way where he wasn't, wasn't always sharing every detail of this of things. Um, so I never really knew what had happened when he was trying to get a hold of me. But he supposedly he was trying to reach abt and they weren't giving me this message for over a year, he was looking for me to star in a music video of his where he had in his mind, he had been following my career in California since I was a young girl, and had in mind that he wanted me to be the ballerina in this video, and he couldn't get a hold of me. So we hired another ballerina made the video and then said that this isn't right, I still need to find Misty. So a year later, he ended up getting in touch with me. And within a couple of days, I was in Los Angeles, improving on the set of his video, literally just making up steps to the music. And that was the beginning of our, you know, our working relationship and friendship, where he really gave me an opportunity as he was how I saw it, you know, he, I, by no means was trying to become Princess dancer. You know, I was very much in the midst of my career at American Ballet Theatre, I was a soloist at the time, you know, striving to be a principal dancer. And, you know, what I saw was an opportunity to reach more people, to to introduce valet, possibly, to an audience who might not feel it's something that they're interested in might not feel welcomed in that space, whatever it may be. And so we had a great understanding that you know, that we are benefiting from each other. And he really challenged me as an artist, to to be comfortable and confident in being unique, which is something that I didn't, I didn't always see, you know, being black and ballet. As a as a power, you know, it's always been, you need to blend in, you need to fit in, how can we do that? And, you know, Prince would say to me, do you know many people want to stand out and want to be unique? And I never looked at it that way. You know, he kind of just tweaked and tweaked the way that I saw myself and in many ways, but you know, one of the most beautiful things you know, that still to this day I experienced from working with him are so many people that come to me whether it's at the stage door of the Metropolitan Opera House or running into someone on the street or at an event and they say i i started watching valet and became a fan of valet and a view because I saw you perform with prints. And it was like that was the whole purpose of this. And he was just such a big advocate for for me and and the supporter.

JOHN MOFFET: 33:43

What a powerful validation that you are on the right track. Yeah, I just, I love that story. Well, somebody else who kind of who definitely served as a mentor for you and you you write about your mentor, Raven Wilkinson, in your latest book, The wind at my back, it's really your attribute to her and her life. How did she become such a big inspiration to you?

Misty Copeland: 34:14

Um, you know, I was at a, at a place in my career, where I was really still trying to, like, understand what my journey was, you know, I was a soloist at Abt and and I felt kind of stuck in this position where I wasn't really being challenged in the classical works, which in order to be promoted to principal dancer, you have to dance in these classical works like I was, I was doing the lead and a lot of the more contemporary newer ballets, but never in these old traditional works, you know, you think of Swan Lake and the Nutcracker and Giselle and Libya Dare and Romeo and Juliet and it was kind of like how do I get over this hump, so was watching a film called the Valley rooster Montecarlo, a documentary on on this historical ballet company that really brought valley to America, one of the most important Valley companies and watching, you know, getting inspired and learning about my history and ballet, and this woman comes onto the screen, and she's a black woman in her 70s, and she's talking about her experience of dancing with this company in the 50s. And I was just taken aback because I had no idea that there was a black woman in that company, I had no idea about this woman's history, and it made me so angry, that that's not a history that is lent to us. You know, there are so many black dancers throughout history that you can't open a ballet history book, or you, you know, that didn't exist in these elite companies, or their faces aren't being put in these books. And, and Raven was one of them, she was a huge, you know, a big part of, of, of ballet. And so, you know, she was talking about her experience of dancing through the South in the 1950s, with, you know, Jim Crow, and segregation and just wanting to get on stage and perform. And having her life threatened by the keh, keh keh. Every time they would, you know, come into town, whether it was you know, them literally bombarding their bus on the way to the theater and looking for Raven, or coming into the theater and stepping on the stage and trying to find her. And all the while she's still going on stage and getting her mind, right and her emotional state right and performing. There was extremely inspiring to learn of her story and and then I was on a mission to find her, you know, figured out what was she alive? Where did she live? You know, what was going on with her. And my manager Gilda squire went to work and found out that Raven lived a block away from me on that side. And it was just like this is meant to be this is this is incredible. And the very first time we met was at a conversation that was held between two generations of black ballerinas. So it was with Raven and myself at the Studio Museum in Harlem. And we met moments before we stepped onto the stage to have this conversation, and it was extremely emotional.

JOHN MOFFET: 37:48

Well, the importance of having a mentor, and is is that they face similar things that you're facing, and can help you with your path because their path they took was similar to yours.

Misty Copeland: 38:04

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think what Raven gave me was, was an understanding of the strength and the responsibility, all of that, that it takes to be in that position. That kind of opened up my mind, it expanded it to understanding my purpose in a different way, or what I felt my purpose is and was, and that was to be I mean, I'm already a storyteller through my art and through dance, but to be a storyteller in a way of telling the stories of black and brown people who aren't acknowledged, their contributions to the art form aren't documented. And so Raven gave me that spark to to start to do that. And she just, you know, always carried herself with so much pride and grace and humility. And I mean that in the best way not not humble, like, like she wasn't worthy like she was so strong and confident, but didn't need to you know, shout it from the rooftops she held herself in a way that like you just knew that she was incredible. And even the way that she handled you know, talking about her experiences she always had empathy and compassion for you know, people that wanted her annihilated you know, she even talked about this good compassion she had and the humanity that she could see in the kk k, which, you know, was incredible, but she she showed me so much More like I was experiencing racism and I am and being alone in this art form. But if she could do what she did in that time, then I definitely can, can wake up every morning and, and be a beacon for so many that that want to follow the my path and the path of so many of us who have laid the foundation. Yeah, I mean, she's just she made my life make much more sense.

JOHN MOFFET: 40:32

You mentioned a beacon and being a beacon and one of those moments in your life journey that was in fact that big beacon was the Firebird, explained to me explain to our listeners, why that role getting that role was so important not just in your career, but for the career of others. And the message that you want it to tell in your story.

Misty Copeland: 40:58

Yeah. I'm sure a lot of athletes can relate to this. But when I think I was 29 years old, you know, which is getting up there for an athlete in terms of age, and I was still not at the top of my field. And, you know, I always had hope, even though things didn't always look promising, I always thought, you know, I've never followed a conventional path, I started late, there were all these things that, you know, could have worked against me, and I've used them as power. So I never saw the opportunities as impossible. So I was always striving, but even at 29, and I had never performed the leading principal role in a classical work, I still have faith that it would come. So when the choreographer Alexei Ratmansky, you know, with someone that would come into a rehearsal studio and look at the potential of people, not the way that these companies typically work, where you've been in the company, they think they know what you're capable of. And so they cast the same people over and over again, or you're stuck in a box, and they're never going to give you this opportunity. So when Alexei came, and he thought, oh, I can see her as the Firebird, he gave me the opportunity. And I was one of three ballerinas cast to perform the lead, which was a huge deal for a soloist a huge deal for a black woman. And especially for someone at 29 years old, approaching this role for the first time and not even just physically, you know, that's a big shift. I can't even think of a sports like, comparison. But like, you know, it's, it's having spent 20 years, 29 years 29 years old, and then having spent however long I was in my career, in this one role, and then all of a sudden, having to switch overnight to having much more responsibility. It's much harder to do later later in life. So there was that aspect of it, but then, you know, being a black woman, and, you know, then choosing me to be the face of the season that, that that summer, and putting my picture as the Firebird on the front of the Metropolitan Opera House at Lincoln Center, you know, gave a different different sense of belonging in that space where black and brown people could walk by and say, oh my gosh, like there's a black woman, like, is that a place I can go in and, and explore and see see what's happening. You know, they're also just the efforts of reaching out to those communities, whether it was going to school public schools in the mornings, and having conversations with black and brown students and saying this is this is where you belong. This is something you can do all of that work. led up to the opening at the Metropolitan Opera House of the Firebird in New York City and it was the first time we saw an audience full of black and brown people young, old every you know, it was just the range was incredible and it and it was kind of the start of a different time I think in valet and showing that we do belong here. And there was hope for the future for so many.

JOHN MOFFET: 44:34

And in that debut that first that first night the audience didn't know I'm sure only your very close circle knew but you were struggling that you actually had developed an injury quite severe injury that was causing you a great deal of pain. Tell Tell me about that. That debut and What ended up happening afterward?

Misty Copeland: 45:03

Yeah, you know, just going back to what it meant to be at my age and getting this opportunity. You know, I was so eager, and definitely wasn't taking care of myself in terms of recovery, rest, you know, that I needed to be doing when I was in preparation for the role and learning it and it being choreographed. And so within that time, you know, this role is of very physically demanding role. It's like, a lot of jumping. And I started developing pain in my tibia in my shin was managing it on the side, you know, with with my own physical therapist, but did not want the company, the company doctor, the company therapists to know, I didn't want the artistic staff to know, because I knew that they would pull me from the role and put someone else in and it would never come again for me. So I was really trying to manage it on my own, just at least to get to that first performance at the Met so that they could see the audience that belong there. And they could see that I could handle a role like this and carry the company on my shoulders. But I was dancing in a lot of pain. I mean, just standing was painful. That after that night, I ended up pulling out of the season, the rest of the season, going to see a doctor, and it was like a very long and hard dropped back down to earth. Realizing that I had six stress fractures in my tibia, and three of them were almost full breaks through the bone, which was devastating, you know, it was like I finally get this opportunity. And what what now, like, it's kind of the end, what hope is there going to be for the next generation or, you know, so it was, it was devastating. I ended up having surgery a couple of weeks later, having a plate screwed into my tibia, which is still in there today. But it did get me back on stage within a year. Definitely not the same dancer in terms of my ability for jumping and things like that. But I still got back on stage and within I think it was within maybe three years, I was promoted to principal dancer.

JOHN MOFFET: 47:31

Wow. And to just quickly put that into some historical perspective, there had never been an international stage ballet, there had never been an African American principal dancer. And that's since the 15th century. Yeah, that's a long history. So this is quite significant. And I, I just want to point that out to the listeners is how significant that was.

Misty Copeland: 47:56

Yeah, yeah. It was such an interesting time. Because, you know, I understood what it would mean for me to be promoted to principal dancer, especially at American Ballet Theatre, which at the time, it was in their 75 year history, I'd never seen that happen. But, you know, what it what it meant for, you know, an entire community of people, you know, it was it was giving hope and possibilities. But it was also a lot of pressure, because there was so much anticipation. Whereas a lot of young dancers who are promoted from soloists to principle, kind of go under the radar, you know, they go on stage and in a Sunday matinee and do their first debut or Premiere and that was happening with me, and people were asking the question, will she be the first and it just, it added a lot of pressure. But yeah, it was a an incredible moment. For me personally, but in Valley history.

JOHN MOFFET: 49:05

Yes. And indeed. I'm thrilled to just be talking to you about it. So thank you. What is what is your message to young black and brown dancers who aspire to be like Misty Copeland?

Misty Copeland: 49:23

Well, I don't think that they should even think about trying to be anyone but themselves first of all, I but I understand what you mean. You know, striving to be the best they can be striving for an opportunity to show that they can be a part of an art form who that is often excluded them. And I would say you know, that it's, it's so important to number one, know that you love it that you have to be passionate about it because it is hard, just because you get to this place. As and maybe you have recognition or you're getting opportunities, it's even harder. I would say first and foremost is really, you know, understanding and coming to terms that this is something you you really want to do. But also knowing that you can't do it on your own, that you know that the support, and you know, that circle of, you know, whatever that support looks like for you, it can be your peers, it can be friends, it can be your parents, it can be other adults in your life. But that support is so important. When you're on your journey, because you just can't do it on your own, you're going to have tough days. But you need other people who also believe in you and who are going to be there to push you. And I think lastly, you know, it will, it's important to understand and recognize that you belong, because I think that's that's one of the most one of the bigger things, it's like discouraging is for young black and brown people that feel that, why even try because this isn't a space I belong in. And I think that it's important for them to recognize it, that they belong?

JOHN MOFFET: 51:19

Well, I want to I want to, I want to wrap this up on a high note and you've had a significant change in your life, you have a new baby boy was born, it was born last year, how has your life changed.

Misty Copeland: 51:34

Um, it's a big change. You know, I think that it's really made me step back and, and understand, like, where I need to really put my focus and attention where as I feel like throughout my career, I've spread myself so thin, because I've known I know that I'm in a, I'm in a position that's so rare, and it's not going to last forever that I'm on stage and get you know, so I've kind of just like put myself out there. But now I'm in a place where I need to be as whole as possible to give the most I can to this little being who needs me so much, especially in this time. So, you know, but it's changed in most beautiful ways, it's allowed me to see that I have a sense of power and purpose that goes beyond the stage. You know, it's it's been able to, it's been able to give back to the ballet world, it's, it's been able to create opportunity opportunities for more growth, you know, whether it's through my foundation, or through my production company, to able to tell stories of people who aren't acknowledged and, and recognized and, and, you know, it's just a beautiful thing to be able to be in a place where I can step back and tell other people's stories. And, you know, one, one person that we didn't mention that I think is so vital and important to my own journey. I mean, there's so many of them, but Lauren Anderson, who was a principal dancer, was a principal dancer with the Houston Ballet. And, you know, was was the first to dance, Swan Lake as a black woman in Houston, and has been such a huge part of my, my journey and my life. But there, there are so many important stories like hers, that I'm so excited to be able to tell in different platforms on different platforms and through different mediums. And so I feel like Jackson, my son kind of opened up my eyes and expanded the possibilities of what I feel I'm capable of doing.

JOHN MOFFET: 54:06

Well, your story, your stories are amazing. And the biggest problem that I have, was trying to select the few or that illustrate you as as an athlete and your journey as as an athlete, because that's, that's what what I'm passionate about. And that's why I do sports life balance. And, and Mr. You, you truly represent something so much bigger than than ballet. And it has been amazing chatting with you. So thank you for making the time.

Misty Copeland: 54:36

Thank you so much. This has been so wonderful and you chose great questions and topics to touch on. So thank you so much for having me.

JOHN MOFFET: 54:45

I'll leave you with a quote from Misty's latest book, The Wind at My Back, a written tribute to her mentor. the trailblazing African American ballerina Raven Wilkinson. She said we have enough respect for ballet and love for it to hope that it opens up. Because culturally, we are all in it together in this country and have to learn to share each other's cultures and be part of it. If you'd like to find out more about Misty's brilliant life and accomplishments, visit her website at Misty Copeland all one word .com. Thanks for joining us, and I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Misty and if you did, please give us your five star review. And don't forget to tell a friend. Bye bye.

Craig Hummer: 55:29

This was SPORTS+LIFE+BALANCE with John Moffet.