S2 E3 -“It Was My Option X” feat. Steve Smith

John Moffet is joined by Steve Smith, a two-time Stanford national water polo champion and space shuttle astronaut.

In today’s episode of SPORTS + LIFE + BALANCE, Steve shares his road to becoming an astronaut through years of setbacks and obstacles. You'll also learn about the near-death experience at 15 years old that changed the trajectory of his life.

Learn more about Steve Smith:
https://www.astronautstevesmith.com/

Thanks to our episode sponsor, Roka! Use code "SLB" for 20% off your purchase at Roka.
https://www.roka.com/

Transcript

INTRO: 0:00

Welcome to Sports Life Balance hosted by John Moffet.

Steve Smith: 0:05

At NASA, we have a saying that Together Everyone Achieves more T E A M. And so teamwork in our business is crucial because of the consequences of not really working well together. And so I felt like that ability to communicate well within a team. And to put team above self was something I learned through sports. And at NASA. That's what we need. We need everyone to work together. Clear communication is crucial in our business. Also, a lot of times we don't have a lot of time to discuss something. And that's true in team sports, for example, the ability to communicate really clearly, the meticulous preparation is really important not only just for the astronauts, but for also for the flight controllers. And so that, of course, is something that comes from sports, the ability to make decisions in under pressure and short amount of time. Recognize that when something bad happens, you have to come up with these creative solutions immediately and you need to act I mean, so many times we think of solutions, and we don't actually take action while in sports. You have to.

JOHN MOFFET: 1:10

that Steve Smith, two time Stanford National Water Polo champion, and space shuttle astronau., I'm John Moffet and thanks for joining us for another episode of Sports Life Balance. Steve's dream of someday going to space began at just seven years old. He carried those dreams with him as he excelled at waterpolo graduated with a master's degree in electrical engineering and embarked on a career at IBM. But Steve's road to being an astronaut was filled with years of setbacks and obstacles. And each time he was rejected, he searched for new options to fulfill his enormous ambition. Eventually, Steve would fly on for space shuttle missions, spending more than 49 hours walking in space. For five of his seven spacewalks, he repaired the Hubble Space Telescope, orbiting 340 miles above the Earth. But for all of Steve's setbacks and achievements, it was a near death experience when he was just 15 years old that permanently changed the trajectory of his life. Steve, I am so happy to be here, actually, in Silicon Valley in San Jose, the place where you grew up to talk to you about your amazing life journey on sports life balance. Thank you for joining me.

Steve Smith: 2:28

Well, John, I'm a big fan. It's an honor to be here with you. So thanks for making the journey. Well, I take that as quite a compliment from someone like you. Well, then let's dig in. Like I said, you spent much of your time in San Jose growing up, what brought your family here? Why? Why are you here in San Jose, and why have you been here so long? Yeah, so my dad is an electrical engineer, Arizona State grad. And when he graduated, IBM was one of the big tech companies and they had a big location here. And so he took the job here at the San Jose plant site and ended up working for IBM for nearly 50 years. And you know, all these things that happen in your family life. Some of them really stand out as being influential. And so for me, the opportunity to grow up in Silicon Valley was huge, because here, people think big. They put up with setbacks along the way they know when to pivot and when to be resilient. And so to have that, kind of as the environment here, was really helpful to me in formulating kind of who I was and how I approached big ideas. So it was kind of in the water, or is this sort of like a shared sort of Zeitgeist that that this place has? What is it about Silicon Valley think that I think just Yeah, it was just the, the environment, having people around come over to play poker with my dad, or you go to a party. Or you'd hear about the stories of someone who was thinking of something just crazy. I mean, just this crazy out of the box, idea. And so having that kind of be influential when you're young is huge, because I realized that when I was trying to resolve a problem, for example, it wasn't necessarily solutions, A or B, that would work. It was option X, that maybe no one had even thought up before. So it just taught me to think big, and actually to be perseverant. Because you know, these people who think big in this area, get kicked in the teeth all the time and keep going. Yeah, indeed. And I believe from a very young age, you are actually thinking big. You are I seen pictures that you drew from as a young boy, have you as an astronaut and always seems to be sort of like a self portrait. It's pretty amazing to think back now that even at the age of maybe six or seven, I was drawing astronauts doing spacewalks. And to have that come true as kind of well, it's a dream come true misquote it is but, you know, it was 30 years between drawing those pictures and actually stepping out the door of discovery. But, you know, I was watching the astronauts on television, Jacques Cousteau was exploring the undersea world. So we were exploring outer space. He was exploring inner space and so I was just kind of under their spell. There were lots of shows on TV that were, you know, fictional shows, right, like Sea Hunt and lost in space that I was also watching. So I was getting this dose of, of the exploration life. Wow. Yeah, from a very young age. Sports also played a major role in your upbringing as well. What what, what kind of what kind of role? Or what were the what were some of the sports that you were gravitating toward as a young kid. Now, sports is one of the top activities that really led to my becoming an astronaut. So early on, it was swimming and basketball and baseball. Eventually lead baseball going focused on basketball and swimming. And when you combine those two, it's this other sport called water polo, which is big out here in California, of course. So that's why I eventually ended up in water polo. Yeah. And now did you start swimming when you're in Japan, so I started swimming here in San Jose, when I was about six, because my dad's company, IBM actually had a swim meet for the employees' children. And so at near grant nearby Willow Glen high school, I can still remember my first swim meet. And I was maybe six or seven years old, only did one length of the pool in each race 25 yards. And so that race went pretty well. And I enjoyed it. And that really kind of sparked my interest in sports. I will tell you a funny story. The second race was like the 25 freestyle. And the gun went off, I jumped, you know, dove into the water. About halfway through, I kind of felt like something was pulling on me, I just fought through it got to the other end, touch the end, looked up and all the other swimmers were still at the starting block. And what had happened is that they had called a false start probably on me, they dropped the rope in the water. But no one had told me as a six or seven year old that if you feel a rope you should stop. So I kept going. Perseverance, right? Well, that's hilarious. Well, you know, it's funny, because the reason it's I kind of jumped the gun a little bit saying, oh, did you learn how to swim in Japan? Because I just had the, the pleasure of meeting your your dad. Yeah. And we're here in the house that you grew up in. And he he mentioned that, that you use, you started swimming in Japan. But the other thing is that you got to fly a lot back and forth. Right. And, and so you, you caught that flying bug, like how old were you when when this was kind of starting to take hold? Yeah, so really, that move to Japan really influenced me both in sports and in flying really good catch on your part, because in those days, flying commercial was kind of new and kind of exciting, the Boeing 707 was coming out then. So we would fly from San Francisco to Japan, you know, two or three times per year, my parents would have me wear a coat and tie. I mean, it was really kind of a special experience. And I just totally loved flying. I just fell in love with aviation. From that we actually would take a helicopter from San Jose airport up to San Francisco airport to catch the flight that I mean, then it was economically feasible. And so just this love of aviation came from that right away. In parallel, of course, again, watching the astronauts on television, and watching, you know, just explorers in all different fields. But in terms of swimming in Japan, I went to the American School in Japan, and they had a very strong swimming program. And so we would have big practices every day, we would compete against the military bases, and also Japanese swim clubs. And so I really learned there, the value of practice, you know, because I could just tell wow, you know, I'm going faster this week than I did last week. And I could see kind of the changes in my body. And of course, there's so much else that comes with sports, the camaraderie, the travel, I mean, here I am in another foreign country, we're traveling to other places, friendships, etc. So yeah, I fell in love with both aviation and, and swimming. Wow. And and so at what age then did your father's job at IBM bring you back here into San Jose? Yeah, so sixth grade, we came back here. And again, just jumped right into, you know, the American sports scene wasn't quite as intense as it is these days, but joined, you know, the swimming, baseball and basketball programs in the neighborhood. Right. So I'm just kind of at that point, just aspirational as far as you wanting to take your athletics someplace, but you still hadn't lost, lost contact with that little dream that that audacious dream that you had as a boy, you still kind of kept that close, didn't you? Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. They were in parallel. I mean, I wanted to be a pilot and then become an astronaut. Game, collecting magazines, stories, going to the library and reading books about the explorers of the day, especially the astronauts, but in parallel, falling in love with the Olympics, and then my dream was to follow your footsteps, basically. And so when the Olympics would come along, I would actually create scrapbooks from the local newspapers. Every day, winter or summer. I wasn't picky. I would actually create these scrapbooks about the Olympics. So for me that the goal of being an Olympian was just as strong as the goal of being an astronaut. And I recently just found a journal I had, I'm not a big journal writer, but I did keep them for a while. And in the, in September of 1985, I was just about to finish business school. And the last page before I started school, I actually wrote my dreams out, and once said, you know, Sol 1988, and the other side to become a NASA mission specialist. So that dream really carried on for many decades. Yeah, dreams are, dreams are important. They're definitely important. And I found I was a kid not growing up with really any particular dream whatsoever, and then somehow, swimming found me. So I was very different than you. I just found out that figured out that I was really good at something. And then the dream took hold. But unlike you, you've had the string close to you, like since you know, since you were a little kid. But life also has setbacks. And you were dealt a pretty big blow. Was it your sophomore year? And in high school? Yes. And it was, it was kind of was it as a result of an injury. What Tell me, tell me about that setback that you experienced sure was November of my junior year, I was playing really competitive basketball, and was having some success at it hurt my back and didn't tell my parents not, you know, just because I just didn't feel like it was worthy of my parents. So I started self medicating with aspirin, not knowing that it was dangerous to take large amounts of aspirin. And so you know, just Gosh, 50 feet from where we're talking in the back bedroom there I woke up in the middle of the night with massive blood in the bed, basically, because I had very burned a hole in my my intestinal system. And so you know, we rushed me to the hospital. And those days, the technology couldn't find what the problem was for about three days. And so for every pint of blood, they put in a pint would come out, oh, my gosh, and, you know, ministers coming to the bedside, and I'm sure my parents were wondering if their kid was going to make it. But anyway, you know, they figured it out. And after 11 days, I came home, but you know, really changed my life. Really, this, these near death experiences, often here really formulate a person's value system, and their interests and their clarity on life. And I can tell you, you know, I came out with my life, a big scar, but also this set of, you know, beliefs and practices that I really carry forward to this day. And it just happened, like I said, just 50 feet from where we're sitting. Wow, that's crazy. So it's just it's kind of a, it really snapped you into really, really appreciating what you have. Yeah, and you know, as a 15 year old boy, that's pretty. I mean, I think, probably at the time, I just kind of moved on, you know, but really, over the years, I reflected back on it. And I thought, wow, you know, in some ways, that was a real gift. And what I when I speak to crowds, now I tried to emphasize how this clarity of life's purposes and how to live it is so value and that they don't need to go through some really bad experience, because there's so many people out there who have overcome amazing experiences that give them this clarity, and including several of your guests and your experience. So I was really lucky in that respect. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So you were able to rebound physically fairly quickly, as obviously emotionally, you were like, Yeah, renewed by this experience. 30 days later, I went to basketball practice 30 days with this, you know, real 16 inch scar on my stomach. And remember, Coach Scott, who was the sophomore basketball coach, didn't show any concern for my, you know, health, he wanted to really toughen me up and actually put me in some pretty aggressive drills that first day against some of the bigger players on the team. So what was your it was time to apply to college? And you? Your dream was to take that next step toward being an astronaut. And what was that then? Yeah, so my dream was to go to the United States Air Force Academy. One of my teammates, friend's father, excuse me, one of my teammates, father took me a night to swim in Longmont, Colorado. And while we were there, we went to the Air Force Academy. And I just, you know, fell in love with the place already knew about it. I already knew that's the place I wanted to go, because every single astronaut ever chosen by NASA had been a military pilot. And so for me, it was the Air Force Academy. So I applied, which was again, this is just about a year after this, you know, near death experience, and have was invited to my flight physical and nearby Moffett Field. And that physical lasted maybe a minute, because the doctor came in with all my paperwork. And, you know, had read about my medical history that it occurred just two months earlier and said, you know, Mr. Smith, you're, you're disqualified from ever, ever being a United States military pilot. So when that's the only pathway to becoming an astronaut, I was devastated. Yeah. And you know, went home and had a good cry. Yeah, that night with my parents in this house. But, you know, that Silicon Valley mindset and that explorer mindset, really kicked in with then a day or two, and it just said, you know, there's got to be some creative solution to keep going. You love this goal. And you know, anytime you love something, it's going to give you this inspiration to continue. And, you know, many people talk about this intersection of preparing yourself for a moment of opportunity. And so for me, I thought, well, you know, maybe I'll have to pivot, maybe there's a good school nearby, they have a good engineering program. And, and by the way, they had the best water polo team in the country this year. And they have an airport nearby and a flying club. So that's why I decided to go to Stanford. And I thought, you know, if I become a civilian pilot, maybe there's some joyous path ahead to be a civilian pilot. And you know, frankly, in the next couple years, NASA changed the rules. And they say, you don't have to be a military. Oh. So in fact, they took some non pilots and scientists and engineers in the late 70s. Well, Stanford might not have been the adventure that you were expecting. But I mean, you're, you're able to do some really cool things. I mean, you mentioned of course, the pilots club and things like that, studying electrical engineering. But you were also on the water polo team, and you were quite successful as a member of that team. And the team was very successful with you part of it, I'll put it that way. Yeah, I was lucky to play with some amazing people. Yeah. And the team was really good. We had a great coach, and Dante. But it really took the level of skills that you learn through sports, to another level, I mean, intercollegiate athletics is this big step up. And I am very clear, when I speak to crowds that, you know, there's different contributions to who you are, and to your success that come along the way. But, you know, through sports, I learned all of life's important skills. And Steve Young actually has a great quote about that, that he learned all of life's important skills through sports. And so for me, it really was one of the cornerstone skill gathering experiences that helped me overcome all these setbacks that were to come. And that had gone. And to make it and, you know, be successful at it. And you went on, you won two national championships, the second of which you are the captain? Yeah, what an honor. Oh, yeah, I think it goes to show you that, you know, when you're in a particular field, it's not just the hard skills that you have these workman skills that excelled because I was not the best water polo player on that team, by far right. Far. Distance, we in fact, had three future Olympians on that team. But it's also your soft skills, your leadership skills, your communication skills, your work ethic, the brand that you carry. And, and so you know, I really attribute that selection as a leader in that situation, to not being the best person on the team, but to having kind of this different skill set of soft skills. And I hope that all of your listeners think about that when they're pursuing their big dreams that you don't necessarily have to have the best hard skills for what you're doing. In fact, I think companies often have so many good employees applying these days for a position that they downselect on hard skills, but then they make their final selections on soft skills. Do you think there's an element of those soft skills were developed in you? Because you weren't the star on the team? And that you needed to make up for? Yeah, no, you're always looking for your place to contribute. And I was so joyous being on that team, I just loved the physical fitness of it, and the travel and the camaraderie it was really just this kind of, you know, like fraternity or brotherhood, for me, and so of course, yeah, you're always looking for how can I help this team? Well, I'll be the guy who will show up every day, five minutes earlier than everybody, whatever it takes. And again, that's a great life lesson to learn in business and parenting and, and friendship to Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, I had the same experience on the Stanford team is that the leaders were not necessarily the best swimmers, the one scoring the most points. And, and it just is, it's a tribute to, as you say, the soft skills and how important those things are, and how, how much they help with the chemistry, the overall chemistry because chemistry of group is, is also vital, that there's, you know, people trust each other, and that people listen to each other and understand each other. Absolutely. You know, it's funny, because I think I remember the time, you know, you're only what, around 20 years old at that point. I remember thinking, Oh, the good players are probably too busy. So the coach wants to give the captain shot to somebody else, you know, you just, you don't do too much with it at the time. You know, maybe it's you're just trying to be humble in that role, or whatever. I don't know. But I remember thinking at the time, and it probably helped them concentrate on the games, and it was a we were talking just a little bit earlier with your dad It was a bit of a rarefied air type of group, you mentioned that there were Wow, yeah, three on your team, there are three people that would go on to compete in the Olympic Games. And there are also three doctors and one of them was an Olympian and a doctor. Correct. And the seventh one was an astronaut. So that starting seven was just really interesting mix of well of intercollegiate athletics, right? Yeah, this combination of academics and athletics. Oh, magic. Absolutely. Yeah. So you got your master's in electrical engineering, as well. So you went five years at Stanford, and then you followed in your father's footsteps? I mean, maybe maybe you wouldn't put it that way. But you went to IBM, correct? Yeah, the military wasn't an option still, because I only wanted to be a pilot. And they still wouldn't take me because of that physical constraints or that what's the next most creative thing to do in terms of building engineering skills and, and having time still to practice aviation in the civil aviation area. And so I did that, but at the whole time I was there, I was still applying it started applying to NASA and still dreaming of getting that position as an astronaut in the astronaut corps. So well, then what did you What did you do about trying to become an astronaut? At that point, you're at IBM. Sure. You're an engineer. I'm not sure what kind of engineer but yeah, we were making semiconductors. It was kind of the Dawn Age of fabricating semiconductors with all this magical chemistry and physics and photo lithography. But Well, NASA started, as I said, selecting non military people while I was at Stanford. So when I got to IBM, I was eligible to apply just as a United States citizen, oh, non military person to NASA. So I sent in a first application, and very simple application, it's almost strange to fill out a job application to write a rock space. But it asked kind of the same questions as any job application. Anyway, about two months after I send it in, I got a very plain, very small, brown envelope from the US government that had just a real short letter in it that said, basically, we don't want you and they don't really tell you why they just say, you know, sorry, we don't want you and I remember, you know, being really disappointed. But I thought, you know, okay, I'm still early in my early 20s. Maybe they're looking for people a little bit older. And so again, crushed just for a day. But when you've got this big dream, you got to keep moving forward. And so instead of just kind of sitting there the next couple of years until they accept applications again, I tried to better myself. So eventually, that's why I went back to business school, learn to scuba dive, flew more airplanes, did some community work, learn to speak in public. So just again, trying to build up the skill set paying the price for trying to reach the big dream. So you just you just were acquiring skills and hoping that they would the cumulative effect would be something that would be more desirable by NASA. Correct. So, so you were you were not going to give up on this? Oh, no, no. And, you know, it was really good to have built up that resilience, because when I applied, you know, two years later, and four years later, six years later, they rejected me each time. So over about eight or nine year period, I got four rejections, each time, they said, We don't want you and they don't tell you why. And, you know, after the third one, I may have even cried a little bit when I got that letter, because now I'm in my late 20s. Yeah, this is this dream I've had for decades, maybe even some of my friends are saying, you know, this isn't going to happen. Give up. But, you know, once you've got this passion in your heart, people with this, I call it the explorers mindset. And anybody with this explorers mindset, or go getter, or, or winner or Trailblazer mindset, you know, you don't give up until you're down on the mat, out of choices. And I'd like to think that, you know, the obstacles I was facing, were on the path and not blocking the path, and just kept trying to think of some creative solution to keep moving forward. I was, I heard you tell the story about how you were trying to figure out you're in and you even wrote a letter to Sally Ride. And I remember Sally Ride very clearly because she was the first woman astronaut on the space shuttle. Stanford grad. Yes, sir. And I was actually one of the lucky people at Stanford who got to sign the American flag that went up. How Space Shot Yeah, so that so I feel like connected this special kid. Wow, that is that's almost disconnected. But yeah, yeah, no, but I just I just remember that very clearly. You know, Sally Ride and, you know, it's just like, I mean, she I'm assuming she worked you back. She did. Yeah. I mean, again, you know, thinking big thing creative. I mean, who would have ever thought that you know, the first American woman in space could return a letter that you'd write to her but I thought I'm gonna try and so that's that lesson again to try things you know, and put the put the opportunity out there to gather more information from people. And she wrote me back, you know, and basically said keep going, keeping the diversified in your efforts. Collecting skills etc. So I'm super grateful I still have the letter. So that's pretty cool. You You mentioned just a few moments ago, you, you mentioned the explorers mindset. Like explain what you mean by that. What are the elements for somebody who has the explorers mindset? Sure, well, it can be called different things. Like I said before, go getter, High Achiever entrepreneurs and have the same mindset. The first is to have a big goal, a gigantic, audacious goal, you know, we're not looking for little incremental things, we want to go places where people haven't been before do it in a vehicle that no one's ever used before. So explorers have this big mindset. The second part is that along the way, before they even start, they know they're going to have tough, tough time along the way, it's not going to be a straight line from A to B, you're going to get kicked in the teeth, you're gonna make mistakes, you might have these huge setbacks along the way, but because you're anticipating them, you know, they're coming. And when they happen, you're not devastated. And in fact, you're you're prepared to, to come up with a solution to get around them is a wildly creative solution, I mean, explores, and people with this mindset are absolutely convinced that whatever's in their way, they can find a solution around it, pivot and learn and keep going. And so it's this crazy ability to be really creative. I mentioned before, for example, when you're facing these obstacles with this mindset, don't think about just options, A and B, look some other completely different direction, where it's x in in the space program, we have to do that. Because, you know, we're trying to make the impossible possible, and the obstacles are huge. And then the third attribute, besides the big goal, and then this way you carry yourself along the way is to do it for as long as it takes. And so that sustained pursuit of a passion is in modern times called Grit. All right, right. It's all about grit and just, you know, keep going forward. So you know, when these rejections first the Air Force, and then for from NASA piling up, you know, I loved what I was aiming for. If you look at some of those pictures of me, that I drew, as a seven year old, Look at the smile on my face, it's one of these exaggerated U shaped smiles because I knew that walking outside a spaceship would make me just so joyous. Well, I guess that's a good reason to pursue a dream. Absolutely. So the space shuttle program took up, you're talking about, you know, setbacks. And a setback is not a broad enough term to describe what happened then, on January 28 1986. And I remember I was on campus, and you were in business school. Yeah, I was at a gym. I was at the athletes gym, and mourn. And what I'm speaking of for those who didn't live through it are those that don't know what I'm talking about. It's the is the space, space shuttle Challenger exploded minute or two after after takeoff. There was a civilian teacher on board. And it was it was one of those moments, I remember very clearly, you remember where you were like you, it's one of those one of those things. And I remember I was I was in a Shakespeare class, and, and the professor came up to the podium to start the class. And he was obviously very upset. And, and he said, the Space Shuttle just exploded. I'm canceling class, I can't bring myself to teach right now. And we all like right there. And then pretty much you realize that the entire campus was kind of shut down and collective mourning. This was a big deal. And it was a big deal for the program as well. How did you feel about this, this is something that you're actively pursuing as your dream, you know, for the first couple of days just absolutely devastated. Just feeling for the families of the astronauts feeling for our country, because we were trying to do big things. And it happened. You know, on national TV, we've got Christa McAuliffe, the first teacher in space on board. At that time, the families of astronauts weren't really sequestered during the launch, they were kind of among the crowd. So it was just this really horrible series of events. But I remember reading letters written to the editors of the local paper and national papers in the the kind of the, the Bible of the aerospace industry, Aviation Week and Space Technology. And I remember there was one in particular one, l 1011. Pilot, wrote, one sensor said, you know, knowledge doesn't come to the ticket. And so part of gathering information, part of gathering big advancements, comes at a price. And so some of those letters said, you know, the crew members on that flight almost certainly would want our country to continue figure out what happened, fix it and let's move on. And so that's the way exploration has been forever. We just don't, you know, read all the books about all the expeditions that have happened before, but exploration comes at a cost. And when I was processing that, I recognized that I was willing to do that, that to the betterment of our world, in our society, I would be willing to risk my life. And, you know, I won't be shying just saying, I also wanted to ride the rocket, of course, and you know, step outside and do these cool things. But in the end, I knew it was a noble cause, and, frankly, to step ahead, when I met my wife, Peggy, and she heard that I wanted to be an astronaut, first of all, she didn't think it would ever happen. But, you know, when it eventually did happen, and all of a sudden, we're within a couple days of a couple years of flying. And we had this conversation where I said, you know, this is why I'm doing it, if we ever have children, I think it'll make their lives better. And as I flew each time, you know, then we started having children, and we just had the same conversation. And I think, you know, I, I'll just be really kind of open here and just say that before each flight, I wrote letters to every member of the family in a while, and they've never seen those letters, but those letters were to be delivered to them by my best friend, should something happen and you know, writing a letter to your two year old son, that's pretty hard to do. And so all the the, the content of those letters was, I'm so sorry, this happened. This is what my thoughts are of you at this time. Like, you're just an amazing young man, you're just an amazing young woman, you're a lovely wife in person. But the rest of letter would say, Please express my interest in the program continuing. Because we're trying to make the world a better place at NASA. The thing I'm struck by, by the, the candidness, and the rawness of, you know of your story, is the fact that it's very easy to sort of like look at people such as astronauts and explorers, and that there's something there, you know, they're armored with steel, and, you know, they don't feel the same things that we do, but clearly, oh, yeah, no, it's we we feel, you know, we feel that pain to you know, it happened again in February on February 1 of 2003, when we lost Columbia. And for our listeners, John's eyes glassed over a little while was talking about this, but, uh, sorry about that, John. But anyway, no, we're just like that. But again, we know it's for the greater cause. And so when people ask, Well, why does NASA exist? Why do they have a budget cetera it's to make people's lives better, to gather information to solve issues here on earth, and to help us you know, maybe progress into the solar system. Learn more out there. Wow, fantastic. But you know, there's, there's a self aside of writing the bullet into space, it's pretty fun to maybe maybe you could just call it predisposition. Yeah, something that no one else, John is, you know, the truth is, and we all do this every day. So this is not just me, but you also think it's going to happen to someone else, it's kind of this defense mechanism. And when we go driving a car, we feel like that, when we fly on airplanes. And so that's, you know, a tough thing to say. But, you know, that was one of the coping mechanisms, frankly. So you mentioned that you had at this point already, already applied three times, four times to NASA and been rejected each of the four times and you you, upon those setbacks, you figured out a way to rebound. What was your strategy when you were at IBM? What did? What did you decide was the thing that you would have to do in order now to take the next step to actively pursue that dream, leave at the time leave? You know, again, you've got to sometimes change the equation. And you know, there's that definition of insanity. If something doesn't work, and you keep trying to do it over and over and expect some different outcome. One of your speakers may have even mentioned that but so for me, it was just changed the equation. So I left a job I loved at IBM took a pay cut, and moved 1500 miles from IBM, to NASA to become an engineer in a position that five other people had held as an engineer flight controller at NASA in Houston, and become astronauts. And so I thought, I'll try and do that. I did that despite the fact that my wife and I were about two months from getting married here in California, we already had a house here, she had a great job, as did I, but I thought, you know, we got to change it up. So it's option X. And I went down there to see what it would be like and also to understand the NASA culture and to see if I was would be like working there to learn about the space shuttle but also to display my Soft Skills and to see if that would help change the equation and it did it worked. That's exactly what happened. And, and that so, so that move resulted in you getting Another shot. Yeah, so I went down there on June 5, and October 18, the astronaut selection office called so this is my fifth application and said, we'd like you to come to the interview group, which means you've gone from a pile of 1000s to the last 100 points is just a joyous, new step. I couldn't believe I'd you know, progressed finally. So I went home, you know, really happy on that day came to work on October 19. And my boss said, I don't want you to take the interview. This is your new my new boss. Yeah. And so I remember sitting dumbfounded, you know, angry upset, Will, why not? And he said, Well, you know, you just got here, it's not fair to me. It's not fair to the team. So I went home, very confused. Angry, of course, on October 20, I flew from Houston back here to get married. Peggy and I had our rehearsal dinner on the 21st. On the 22nd. We had the wedding. It was supposed to be at Stanford Memorial Chapel, but the earthquake around here at damage the church. So we were married on the 22nd. In a different church on the 23rd, we flew to Hawaii and on the 24th. On my honeymoon, I picked up the phone to call the astronaut selection office and tell them what my decision was, you know, am I going to go against my boss's wishes or take the interview? And so I remember Duane Ross answered the phone at the office there and said, and I said, Dwayne, I've made my decision. Aloha. I'm in Hawaii, on my honeymoon, but I'm going to turn down the opportunity to interview and the phone was silent for what seemed like a long time. And then as Dwayne said, in no uncertain terms, kind of an adult voice. No one has ever done that to us before. And I said, Well, you know, this is, this is my honoring the system and showing grit. I didn't say that. But again, that's if you have this long term pursuit, sometimes you got to put in another year or two. And so I knew that they wouldn't select for another couple of years. So at the end of our honeymoon, by the way, you know, I came back to Houston, and worked for NASA, Peggy went back to our home in San Jose, San Francisco. And so for the next two years, I worked for that manager. My wife had a couple of different names for him. So I'll just say Mr. Mean, guy. It Anyway, two years later, I was selected. So finally, finally, so the age of 30, what 31 I guess at that point, so it's kind of your sixth time? Yeah. Yeah. That's thank you for reminding me. That's true. I mean, but that is just nuts. And so the years, I don't need to belabor the point it was, so that that was like, Man, you really wanted this. Yeah. And, you know, again, there's this, this incident as a young person that really helped develop the grit and skills and this participation in sports and of course, you know, family and friends influence so. So you because you're you're now in a training program is that is that then after these interviews that you ended up in a training program selected as what top 19 I think 20, something like that. And, and I'm sure it was similar to your days, like back playing water polo at Stanford, where you got like these crazy high achievers, I mean, your fellow aspiring astronauts, I'm, I have to have been completely gnarly. Yeah. Yeah, it was 19 Americans, and included at least one person with six college degrees. So it was pretty intimidating. And of course, we were also overwhelmed with information. Because we had, you know, different shuttle systems to learn different spaces to learn, you know, geology, meteorology, etc. So it was really overwhelming. And then 74 days after I became an astronaut, we had our first child too, so life got pretty complicated at that point. That's the way life works. Yeah, yeah. John, let me let me Can I just go back to one thing? Yeah, please. So I really didn't tell you the whole story. So after I came back from Hawaii, I did work for Mr. Meehan guy for two years, yeah. And applied again, and made the interview round again. And this time, I could accept the interview. And so they provided a very large package of forms to fill out. And so I went home and fill those forms out. And but for the first time, the forms that I was given to NASA asked for a more complete medical history. Oh, so up until that point, NASA wasn't really aware of what had happened back in my junior year in high school. Anyway, I put it on the paperwork, turn the paperwork, and well three days after I turned that paperwork and I got an A call from the astronaut selection office. They call me in and they said, you know, Steve, based on your medical history, you're disqualified from being an astronaut forever because of that medical history. And so you know, another punch to the get another opportunity to go home and you know, it's okay to feel that disappointment and and pain. But in the end, if you've got this big goal, you know, you can't give up you got to view the obstacles being on the path, you know, it's just on the path, it's not blocking the path, and you've got to look at all your options is There's some creative solution you can come up with. We'll hear more from Steve in a minute. But first I'm really excited to tell you about our new partner Roka. Roka was founded by two of my fellow all American Stanford swimmers. And I've been using their equipment for years, not just because they're my friends, but because their training and racing gear are seriously second to none in the industry. But what you might not know is that Roka also makes the best performing eyeglasses and sunglasses on the planet. I'm wearing some right now. And they're awesome. They're extremely lightweight. And due to the totally adjustable nonslip, nosepads and temples, they never fall off my face, even when I'm hot and sweaty. And best of all, I totally forget that I'm wearing them. Roka has dozens of classic and great looking styles to choose from, I love being able to use the same pair of glasses for a hard workout or a night on the town. So whether you need prescription glasses like mine, or a stylish pair of sunglasses, please go check them out, head to roka.com, that's R O K A .com and enter S L B as in Sports Life Balance. That's three letters S L B, to save 20% on your first order. And now let's get back to astronauts, Steve Smith. And so for me, you know, it's really interesting to ask audience members during my speeches, what would you've done at this time do you just fold it in. And so the solution I came up with, which is option x, is to go back to the astronaut selection office, they were not happy to see me, they had told me to never come back to never apply dead. But I have to give them credit, they listened. And so I proposed to them that they have their medical personnel identify a very specific medical test that I can have, by a very specific doctor at a very specific hospital to gather information to see if there was some way they could clear me from the regulations that I was violating, and I would pay for this whole thing on my own. So that's Option X, they agreed to it, which to me is again, a lucky moment. So thankful for that. So anyway, had the test by their doctor at the hospital of their choice, turn the information into NASA, like two months passed. And finally, they had the meeting of what's called a space space medicine board. SMBX. And, you know, I went to a local church and just sat quietly in the pews by myself during their meeting, because I didn't know what else to do. But eventually, I got a call that night and they said, you know, we've decided to waive the regulation for you. And in fact, we're going to change the regulation for all future aplique Wow. And so just come up with these really creative solutions to these apparent obstacles. That is, that is just like crazy what you had to go through to, to become an astronaut. And, and so you're cleared. And then it's Wow, busy life,

JOHN MOFFET: 42:58

your busy life,

Steve Smith: 42:59

but with a new baby. But so much of that is it goes back to your training as as an athlete, right? I mean, I've seen some of the training that they make you, you know, they exert crazy. beyond human G forces against you, you're in a pool, learning how to explain? Well, I'm assuming that your athletic background was really, really helped you, especially when compared to perhaps some of the other candidates who were not as athletic as you know? Well, I'm sure well, it did. Absolutely from a couple of perspectives. One is, you know, when you're an athlete, you're balancing all these different requirements from the academic side and the athletic side. So you learned lots of different techniques to deal with that time management divide and conquer, prioritize, simplify your life, etc, etc. And so they absolutely helped. I think it also the skills like, you know, teamwork communication, also helped me get through this massive pile of, of requirements on my life and time. Yeah, in the end, you know, I attribute against sports to help me through moments like this with these great skills. But going back to that incident, at this local hospital, San Jose hospital room to s 42. You know, I came out of that experience with this new mindset that, you know, life is to live to its fullest to live joyfully. And the only way you can do that is to lead a simple life as possible to get rid of the noise in your life to quit wasting time to you know, just find the ability to focus on the things that really important. Wow, like the big goals, the relationships, Joy contributing being a member of our society that contributes. And so one way to think about it is you know, if you juggling a lot of balls in your life, okay, and a couple of them are crystal, you don't want to drop those crystal right. And so if you can get rid of some of the balls that you're juggling, it helps. And so that's why I've always encouraged people to, you know, simplify your life with those those techniques. And, you know, I'm not a minimalist, but you know, I'm not really big on having a lot of possessions and items, I'm really more interested in experience and time. And so that's how I got through that astronaut training, I really had that sports background, but also this simplify your life mindset in elites to balance, you know, I not only wanted to be a great astronaut, but when I go home, I wanted to be a good spouse, and a good dad, a good community member, a good family member to my parents, and sibling. And so the only way I could do that was to simplify my life. And it worked. I can only imagine how incredibly overwhelming just the controls and all the different forces that are being thrown at you. And then there's the politics and the pressure, and then all these things that are going along with, you got to get as many things off the list as you can. And you know, we hold on to things for a long time. Sometimes they don't need to, I think we forget to slow down once in a while and say, Okay, these are the things on my priority list. Are there any there that, you know, I've carried for a long time. And you know, I'll give you an example in when I was 16, I bought a 1966 Corvette, Nassau Blue 427 engine like 26,000 miles on it. And I loved that car for a long time. And it was, you know, in high school, it's like at the top of my priority list. Well, I held on to that car for 42 years. And every year it slid down the list yet it stayed in my possession. It took my time. But it wasn't just as important. So finally I said, you know, I'm going to simplify my life, it's on the list. It doesn't need doesn't deserve to be anymore. I won't say that. It wasn't painful. But it was an easy, obvious decision. So I got rid of the car. And a lot of my friends when they heard that said, Oh my gosh, you know that that's your thing. That's your identity. I said, No, you know, I need I have these other things in my life now that are higher priority. So one of the things that you mentioned that I have the hardest time with his wasting time, I'm really wasting time. John, I tell crowds, I'm going to talk about this subject, but it's not like I've mastered it. We are constantly constantly getting distracted. It's okay. The internet's made it worse. I've been on airplanes where I'm watching a movie that someone's watching two rows ahead of me, even though I can't hear the sound. I mean, it's human nature. But it's a good reminder to constantly try not to waste too much time. And you know, I tell people, if you can only save 10 minutes a day, that's like three full days per year out that if you can get three full days per year. So you know, don't watch as many cat videos, maybe cut it down a little bit. If you're doing some kind of an activity a sport or you know a skill, instead of doing it five times per week, maybe do it four times a week, it's pretty easy to find places that will save time. It doesn't mean you need to be boring, you know, you want to have this balanced, joyful life. But there are some excessive probably things that you can cut out. Yes, indeed. Well, so the training is your first round of training is through and you're selected. And it would be September of 1994. Yes. You have found yourself select successfully going through all the training and you are sitting atop a rocket. Yeah,

JOHN MOFFET: 48:25

I can't imagine what that must be like, what what? How do you how do you describe that to somebody?

Steve Smith: 48:31

So it's path 39B at the Kennedy Space Center. We're sitting on board endeavor and giddy. Giddy is definitely a feeling you're having at this point. You know, it's something you've dreamed about for decades. I'm what around 33 years of age at that point. I'm sure if people are interested. Are you like scared at all at that point? And you're going to be surprised to hear the answer's no. Even though I didn't have like a military training background. The preparation that we went through in the two years leading up to that made us meticulously prepared and anytime you have a big event or a big thing you're going through if you're prepared, it really reduces your anxiety. You know, whether it's a test or a PowerPoint presentation or a speech or an athletic event, if you prepared it's going to help you a lot of course Now, having said that there was high anxiety because you are worried about making a mistake that could cost money to the United States of America. You could hurt a crewmate you can embarrass your country, your family etc. So you definitely have that burden of worry God if I have I got this all memorized. So there's so again, it's this mixture of joy, anxiety. My wife and I did discuss before I went to the launch pad that hey, at this point in the launch pad, launch countdown, let's just have some mindfulness and think about each other. So it l minus two minutes, two minutes before lunch. And then the rest of the time just I was trying to prepare reviewing emergency procedures. What's my role as we go uphill, if something bad happens if we lose an engine, if we break a window, if we have to jump out, whatever, what's my role? Just making sure I was part of the team ready to go. And just the right in space was on believable.

JOHN MOFFET: 50:16

To use a sports metaphor from what I understand, there was a bit of a false start.

Steve Smith: 50:21

Yeah.

JOHN MOFFET: 50:22

Describe that to me

Steve Smith: 50:24

that yes, so 32 seconds before launch the space shuttles five computers take over and do all the processing at that point. So the big computer systems at the Kennedy Space Center no longer involved. Six seconds before launch the three engine start that use liquid hydrogen and oxygen, those engines are running for six seconds to make sure they're okay, before we start, they take a little bit while to throttle up. So before l minus zero launch time, the engines are running for six seconds, well, at 1.8 seconds before launch, those computers determine one of those three engines was bad, you definitely don't want to launch with one of those three bad off the launch pad because you're not going to come back basically, we're going to have to go to a certain altitude and jump out, no one's ever had to do that we weren't sure if it even work. So the engine shut down. And so the space shuttles rocking back and forth, back and forth. There's all kinds of, you know, smoke from the engines running, there's these giant water sprinkler systems spraying the back of the shuttle, so there's no fire. And so inside, the alarms are going off, you know dirt or dirt or it was a kind of a big letdown, it's pretty dangerous moment. Because you've had you know, 3000 degree engines firing in the back, you've got, you know, 600,000 gallons of liquid hydrogen, two feet from you in the orange state. But of course, everything was fine, and we didn't have to evacuate, we take our seatbelts off right away. Of course, it's much harder three miles away where my family is because the officer, they see the shuttle still on the launch pad and all this smoke. And, you know, we're in the cockpit, on an abort like that. And even during successful rise into space, in the cockpit, we're okay. You know, we're, you know, excited about what we're doing. We've trained hard for this, we're pretty sure everything's gonna turn out, okay. And frankly, if something bad happens, we're gone. You know, it's not going to be like this terrible experience we're going through, we're just going to be gone in an instant. Well, for the families, it's not that way. They're watching from three, six miles away, somewhere in there. And they're just carrying the drama of this whole thing. And they, of course, would live with the consequences. And so for that reason, I view the families as the real heroes of the space program. They are Indeed, indeed. So anyway, we we couldn't launch on that day. Yeah, they took that bad engine out, put another one in. And six weeks later, we had the real experience, which was awesome.

JOHN MOFFET: 52:48

So so the real experience. Yeah, you you, you actually lift off this time.

Steve Smith: 52:54

Yep.

JOHN MOFFET: 52:54

Tell me about that ride.

Steve Smith: 52:56

It's joyful. It's violent, because inside, you're just getting thrown around left and right. I mean, we have our seatbelts on, of course, but it's like, being on a really old really bad roller coaster you getting thrown left, right, up and down, forward, backward. So you're trying to just kind of maintain your view of the computer in front of you, or the checklist in front of you, you're facing massive acceleration forces at the same time, because we're going from the launch pad to Mach 25, and eight and a half minutes, at 17,500 miles an hour. So you experienced gravitational forces about three times what you normally feel here on the face of the earth. So I weigh about 200 pounds, they're going into space, I weighed 600 pounds, your arms heavy, your heads heavy, all the bloods kind of gone to the back of your head. But the third thing that's happening is this massive joy. You know, three decades, all these rejections, I'm riding a United States spaceship in outerspace, and we're going to do cool things up there. And so it goes by kind of in a blink of an eye, and all of a sudden the engine shut off. And you're in this magical place. No gravity. Yeah.

JOHN MOFFET: 54:09

I can see. Well, it's your first time. I mean, you've been trained in zero gravity, simulators, simulators. Okay, and launch simulators. But this is your first time.

Steve Smith: 54:20

There's no substitute for being there.

JOHN MOFFET: 54:23

Well, what's it? What's it like this time, you're just kind of? Oh, yeah, it's really strange, because well, first of all, you see this beautiful blue marble out the window. And I'd love to talk a little bit more about that. It's this moment of awe. But in terms of the experience of being in zero gravity, it's like a movie or a magical show. Your listeners can imagine if we could turn off the gravity where they're sitting right now. Look at all the things around the room and that you're in that would just kind of start floating up towards the ceiling, including you. Yeah, and the chair and the table and if there's liquid in the glass next year, it's gonna come out and so you Just kind of eventually you'll float up and touch the ceiling. And it's just wild, because even heavy things can be moved around easily. For example, if you could turn gravity off wherever you are now, and got a family member friend, you could play catch with a refrigerator and just use two fingers to kind of pass a refrigerator back and forth. And the Hubble Space Telescope weighs 24,000 pounds. And if the system that would deploy it back into space didn't work, two of us were gonna go out there, pick it up and push it into space, it's 24,000 pounds. So it's a very magical place, you can sleep on the ceiling or the wall, because our sleeping bags have Velcro on them in the surfaces all have Velcro. And, you know, it's just like a magic show, just like a magic show. And I have to say that I still dream about it a couple times per year, and I wake up with a big smile on my face.

Steve Smith: 55:50

How could I? How could I not? So I remember years and years ago, you know, reading and hearing about the Hubble Space Telescope, and you're one of the astronauts that were set up on your second mission to go and fix the Hubble Hubble telescope. Well, how far up off of the surface of the Earth is it? Yeah, so the Hubble Space Telescope has to be put as high in the sky as possible so that the atmosphere that we live in right here on Earth doesn't affect the pictures. So it's at 400 miles, approximately 350 to 400 miles. So that's much higher, much higher than all the other space shuttle missions. For example, my first mission was the lowest ever at 120 miles. So we're way below earth. Yeah. Well, whoa. Yeah. And so, you know, working with Hubble was just a magical experience.

JOHN MOFFET: 56:35

And this was your first spacewalk?

Steve Smith: 56:38

Correct as well.

JOHN MOFFET: 56:39

Okay. Yeah. Okay, so you described weightlessness?

Steve Smith: 56:43

Sure, yeah. Well, we unearth, we practice in a pool, because there's kind of no magical place where you can turn off gravity, the pool is really good in that we put pretend spaceships in there, we put pretend spacesuits on. And then we practice the spacewalks. But you know, there's drag in the water. And when you turn upside down in the water to do something that you would do upside down in space, there's gravity, the blood goes through head. Well, when you go and do a spacewalk in the real place, it's, it's incredible, because you don't have the window frames blocking your view anymore, you have this big gigantic visor on your helmet, you have a 300 pound suit on. But in space, it doesn't weigh anything, right. So together with my body weight, I was basically like a 500 pound blob, but I felt like a ballerina, because I have around easily. And the view of the Earth, you know, outside the shuttle is just stunning. And then of course, is, again is this beautiful, magical instrument called the Hubble Space Telescope. And I get to go fix it. And so, so you're, you're there. Hovering in space, for lack of a better lack of a better term. This is a $6 billion telescope. There are major stakeholders. There are a lot of eyeballs on this. Not to mention that there is the run of the mill inherent danger, run a military, I really say that the inherent danger of a spacewalk? I mean, how do you how do you remain focused? And how do you remain calm. Just in completely task oriented, it has to do with the training, again, having had this meticulous preparation for hundreds and hundreds of hours, in this fake place, believe it or not prepared us for this real place, not a little bit over simplifying it, right. But when I got to the real Hubble Space Telescope, I had never seen it before in my life. And yet, I was able to know exactly what to do, because I'd worked on pretend Hubble Space Telescope's both in the pool, and a really high fidelity one, which means a highly accurate one on Earth. And so I was able to feel like it was second nature. I know exactly what both to turn, I know which door to turn. And we do that. So you can deal with the other dramas and other danger that, you know, that's going on at the same time. I mean, the suits we wear have 13 layers of materials to protect us. The layer that keeps the oxygen inside is only four millimeters thick. And so you know, wow, it's a pretty dangerous place to be there's no air there. I mean that if that four millimeter fabric gets a hole in it, we're in serious trouble out there. You know, again, it's kind of trying to compartmentalize the danger, put it behind you try not to focus on it. We are prepared if something happens. So I felt very confident many times in the simulations, that material did fail. So they go Oh, Steve, you have a hole in your suit. What are you going to do? So they train you how to deal with that? All right. In fact, most of the training is on the emergency situations, not on the normal plan. I think the sports training really helped a lot because again, you are preparing for these big moments, these big events, you've got coping skills you develop in terms of you know, deep breathing, mental exercises to keep you focused on what you're doing. And so for me, it was a It was a blast working on this thing. I wish they hadn't told me it was worth$6 billion, like a week before we laughed, because that's when my anxiety went way up. Because again, you know, you've got these stakeholders watching you and and it's really super expensive piece of equipment. Did you? Did you take any moments? Just for yourself, just to take a deep breath and look around and figuratively pinch yourself? Absolutely. Not enough. But absolutely, you know, we're super busy up there. But we all know that the other comes in five or 10 seconds or a minute where you know, you can just take a breather, maybe you're coming up on the coast. And Bibi can just, you know, just take in and beauty of coming across the Atlantic to this beautiful site. I mean, maybe is one of the most beautiful coasts to see from space. But for the most part, you're pretty focused now inside the spaceship you have a little bit more time. Yeah, to have some downtime. But when you're out there spacewalk, and you're pretty much on the on the game plan most of the time. But yeah, we always take take a moment like for taking pictures, for example. Yeah. So before the spacewalk, you would say, hey, if I make this little signal, Rex or, John, I'm gonna I want you to I want I'm gonna take your picture. I'm not gonna say it out loud. I just, you just take a moment. And Okay, a couple pictures of you. So we have little hand signals when we wanted to do some fun things.

JOHN MOFFET: 1:01:26

I can't, I can't imagine I can talk to you about that

Steve Smith: 1:01:28

The stakeholders did not know about those, right?

JOHN MOFFET: 1:01:33

That's okay I don't need to know

Steve Smith: 1:01:35

it's it's amazing, though, what meticulous practice does for you in any thing in any venture? In any venture? You know, I'm sure in sports, you were nervous at the starting line a little bit. But, you know, that just means you love it. And you're anxious to get it done. But a lot of it's almost robotic after that. That kind of training. I heard. I heard you speak a term that that struck me as I'd never heard it before. And that the term is to use the NASA vernacular when something goes wrong. off nominal. Yeah. Well, we all hit off nominal moments in our lives as well. So do you think that your experiences to get to the point where you got, as an astronaut have shed some light on life? And those moments that all of us inevitably face of those often nominal moments in life? Yeah, well, it's funny, because I thought that was a word that I'd always used before I went to NASA. But you know, in hindsight, it's kind of a NASA vernacular. But absolutely, I mean, it's funny how your job can train you for life, too. And so here we are, to think very calmly, in various dangerous situations, very slowly to prioritize the options to be creative, to be prepared to take action, in space. And so I know that, you know, in my personal life in the time since those flights, I've used those skills. Here also. Yeah, definitely valuable lessons. And it's, it's like quite a continuum of athletic prowess into doing something that's just completely extraordinary and beyond what most people aspire to much less succeed. And you, in all, you spent nearly 50 hours, 49 hours and change on spacewalks. They're seven separate spacewalks. And that you're actually in the top five in the world for most time, that's probably probably 10 By now, but somewhere in there, it was, you're, you're talking about rarefied air, and there's no air up there, but check and redirect. That's why we have this white space. It's well, um, so you were able to do two more missions. And when you when you when you think back on on those missions? What what is the grand, like, 30,000 foot view of what athletics did for you on on each one of those four missions? Oh, see so many things, John, first of all, at NASA, we have a saying that together, everyone achieves more. And so teamwork in our business is crucial because of the consequences of not really working well together. And so I felt like that ability to communicate well within a team. And to put team above self was something I learned through sports. And at NASA, that's what we need. We need everyone to work together. Clear communication is crucial in our business. Also, a lot of times we don't have a lot of time to discuss something. And that's true in collegiate or in team sports, for example, the ability to communicate really clearly. The meticulous preparation is really important not only just for the astronauts but for also for the flight controllers. And so that of course, is something that comes from sports, the ability to make decisions in under pressure not short amount of time. That's what sports is all about. The ability to recognize that when something bad happens, you have to come up with these creative solutions immediately. And you need to act. I mean, so many times we think of solutions. And we don't actually take action on sports, you have to, yeah, you really have to. And just the value of just practicing over and over these basic skills so that they don't necessarily end up Haven't you use the same skill in the moment. But they've given you the ability to vector off and things that are close by to resolve an issue, for example. Well, and it served you well, you finished your last mission was in 2002. And you stayed as an employee of NASA and you, you tackled some leadership positions. One of them which was deputy chief astronaut, which what I mean, that would tell me what exactly that means. So in the astronaut corps, we had about 130 astronauts at the time. And there's, there's leaders of the NASA corps. So we had the chief astronaut was Charlie Precourt, and I was deputy chief astronaut. And we kind of divided the work up in that he was doing that kind of the up and out. So the politics, the talking to, you know, NASA headquarters and other space agencies around the world. And my job was to manage the daily lives of the astronauts in the core. And I have to say, Wow, that was one of the most rewarding things I've ever done one of the most challenging because you can imagine the skills and capabilities and creativity of that group of people. Humbling, in many ways, I really think that some of the skills again, I learned as an athlete helped me be successful at the job in terms of coming up with teamwork, motivating the other members, communicating really well. To them, even if it was bad news, you know, learning to communicate well. And so while that was, that was a wild, wild job, but I really enjoyed it. And then from there, you moved on to a diplomat in Europe, explained to me what what that was exactly, yeah. So my role as a diplomat was to represent NASA to largely to the European Space Agency, which is made up of about 20 different countries. And then also at times to the Russian Space Agency, when we were talking about space station issues. We built a space station as a collaborative effort among many countries. It's an amazing facility, that's the size of about a football field, as 69 people living on board and weighs about 100 tons, straddling a 70,500 miles an hour, but had been largely built by first the Russians and Americans. But then we started including our Japanese partners, our Canadian partners and our European partners. And so my job was to, to be the liaison between NASA in those countries, and especially in Europe. And so that involves, you know, financial discussions, politics, bartering things, we didn't never exchanged money for things. It was always about bartering different services. And the space stage is really a wonderful example of international cooperation. And I wouldn't be surprised, for example, that if it's not nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize someday, because despite all the saber rattling, going on between the countries politically, right, we've continued to work together in space successfully for a long time. That's fantastic. That's, that's like actually really heartening because you don't you only hear about how bad the relationship has become between us. And yeah, I mean, engineers, scientists, pilots, we just want to work together on technical basis and get the job done, get the data and help, you know, help move the world forward in that respect. Well, and and I will, I will tell you that athletes are the same way, you know, when, when I was in Europe and competing, and and when the big news was that the United States was going to boycott the Moscow games in 1980. I just remember all the Soviet and East German swimmers, they would come up to me individually and say, Please don't boycott. Yeah. And, you know, at that point, you're human to human, you know, they just they want to compete against you, you all just want to compete. And so I love that. I just never thought about it that space. And athletics are like these. It's sort of like an equal playing field where, where we can all cooperate and we Yeah, that magic, great diplomatic communities, right, to keep us moving forward together. I had never thought of that either. But just like you said to me, an astronaut to cosmonaut you know, there's no interest in the politics that are going on. Right on Earth, right. Like, I love that. I love that. Well, what a parallel that makes me happy. I'm asking you to reflect one more time. What would That little boy who drew spaceships and self portraits with a big smile on your face? What would he think of this audacious dream that he had that had become reality? And how would he, how would you look upon that, and probably didn't realize that it was as big as as it really was. But, you know, for me, it was so clear. And sometimes, youth and young adults don't have that clear vision at a young age. And so I always encourage people to, you know, I was lucky to discover early what I was really interested in, in fact, you mentioned that you were not as young to find that out. But you just keep looking for information, keep being the sponge, keep taking advantage of any place that you can learn about an occupation or job be this just this giant sponge to get this data. And boom, someday, you will find what makes you joyful. And you want to find what makes you joyful, because it's not going to always be easy to get there. No. And you know, if you're joyful about something, you will develop grit, you will develop this wildly creative mind to do anything you can to get to that point. And so a little boy didn't know that at the time, right. But when I look back at those pictures and see that big smile on my face, I mean, that's exactly what I was experiencing. And that's why those setbacks along the way, you know, okay, I was sad for a day but, you know, just the next day recovered and pivoted and was creative and kept moving. What a glorious life's journey that you've had. It was fun. Yeah, I can. It's fun. It's fun. It's fun chatting with you about it. So I've learned so much. So inspiring. And thank you so much for being so open and sharing all of these stories and, and I will start working on wasting less time. But anyway, thank you so much for spending your time with us today on Sports Life Balance. Hey, John, thank you so much. I've listened to all your episodes. I've learned so much from your guests and from you. So thank you.

JOHN MOFFET: 1:12:08

Cheers, thanks. When I asked Steve for a quote that inspires him. He gave me a whole list that he's compiled through the years, but the one he selected for this episode is from author aviator and wife of Charles Lindbergh, Anne Morr w Lindbergh. "On finding happine s and balance in life", she wrote, "simplification is the road to harmony." I'm John Mof et and I hope you enj yed this conversation with Stev as much as I did. If you'd lik to find out more about him, hi website is Astronaut Steve S ith, all one word.com If you were inspired by this epis de, give us your five star r view and please tell a friend. We'll be back next week. T anks for listening. We hope yo enjoyed Sports Lif