A Literal Journey

Creating Magical and Mysterious Worlds 📚 Ben Guterson on Reading, Writing & the Winterhouse Series

• Seth Adam Smith • Season 1 • Episode 17

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The best stories begin with a little bit of mystery...

In this episode of A LITERAL JOURNEY (easily one of my favorites 🤫), I sit down with Ben Guterson, author of the bestselling Winterhouse trilogy, The World-Famous Nine, and The Einstein's of Vista Point. We talk about Ben's journey into writing, his interest in puzzles and wordplay, and his love of creating mystery-filled adventures for young readers.

Ben reflects on the books that shaped him growing up (from Roald Dahl to The House With A Clock In It's Walls), his departure from the corporate world and into the world of writing fiction, and the creative process behind building his mysterious and magical worlds. In regards to Middle Grade Fiction, Ben also talks about why the ages between 8-12 seem to be such an important time for readers: because kids at that age are beginning to discover their own place (their own story) in whatever setting they find themselves.

Whether you’re a reader, writer, parent, teacher, or someone who just loves a good mystery (with plenty of wordplay and puzzles), I hope this episode encourages you to open a book (or pick up a pen) and embark on your own literal journey.

About BEN GUTERSON:

Ben Guterson is the New York Times bestselling author of The World-Famous Nine, which was a Barnes & Noble Young Reader Pick of the Month, as well as The Einsteins of Vista Point and the popular Winterhouse trilogy. Winterhouse was an Edgar Award and an Agatha Award finalist and an Indie Next List Pick. His books have been translated into eleven languages worldwide.

💻 VISIT Ben Guterson's official website: https://benguterson.com/

📖 READ Winterhouse: https://amzn.to/40pqmQN

📚 CHECK OUT Ben Guterson's other books: https://amzn.to/4rwSRam

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My name is Seth Adam Smith. I’m a husband, father, and author who believes in the power of stories to inspire people forward.

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Thank you for watching—and for being part of this journey!

Ben Guterson

When I think about like setting, I realize I I have these huge places, these huge locations where kids enter into them and they're trying to figure out, trying to get their bearings, they're trying to orient themselves. And so I think in some measure that carries over to my sense that kids in that age 8 to 12 range, they are in some degree trying to orient themselves. They left behind the world of being made comfortable or safe entirely by their parents. I mean, they still are, obviously, you know, but you have more autonomy when you get to be age in the eight to 12 range. Um, your teachers aren't doing everything for you. There's more exploration. When you go to the library, you get to find your own books, you know, rather than sort of, you know, them being selected for you. Like there's a lot more going on about you figuring out who you are in whatever space you're in at that age. And I think that's why I'm attracted to making these places, whether it's a museum or a big store or a big hotel or a stone tower, kids enter into these places. It's disorienting. There's something magical. Is the magic good? Is it bad? How am I relating to the magic? How am I figuring out the magic? And then through figuring all that out, how am I figuring out myself? How am I going to navigate this time where I'm no longer a kid and I'm going to move into being an adult and have responsibilities and have to figure things out for myself without people telling me what to do? So I just sort of feel if there is a theme in my books, it it's kind of related to that. Young people trying to figure out how they figure out in the world without being directed, without being, you know, put down, without being told what to do.

Seth Adam Smith

And speaking of great stories, Man Alive, have I got a fantastic author for you today? And forgive me if I uh try not to fangirl here a little bit, but it's Ben Guderson, author of The Winter House and the World Famous Nine series. Ben, thank you so much for agreeing to be on this show. It's an honor.

Ben Guterson

Well, huge thanks, Seth, for inviting me. Uh, I'm really pleased that you did, and I'm eager to talk about my books, other books, literature, and children's uh stories in general.

Seth Adam Smith

Oh, I mean, I we were before I even started, I still got to read your bio, but before we even started, I was like, this is gonna be a great interview. This is gonna be great. This is gonna be so much fun. Uh, Ben Guderson is the New York Times bestselling author of The World Famous Nine, which was a Barnes and Noble young reader pick of the month, as well as the Einsteins of Vista Point and the popular Winter House trilogy. I actually read that book, the first in that book, while I was hiking the Grand Canyon. That was that was my choice to listen to that one on the hike, and it was wonderful. Winterhouse was an Edgar Award and an Agatha Award finalist and an indie next list pick. His books have been translated into 11 languages worldwide. Ben, again, thank you so much for being on here. Um, just give our listeners and our viewers a bit of background on you and your story and what got you into storytelling.

Ben Guterson

Well, um uh to go way back, I was born in Seattle, Washington, and grew up there and uh great neighborhood in the North End. I have two brothers and two sisters, had great parents, went to the University of Washington and um was attracted to teaching, to education. Uh, really, all my siblings and even my mother and father were teachers at one time or another. So I got my teaching degree and ended up being a teacher in the Southwest in New Mexico on the Navajo Nation or Navajo Reservation, uh formerly called, uh, and then at a small school in southern Colorado, and I taught English. That's my area of uh uh expertise, I suppose I can call it. Um, so I taught for 10 years, really loved doing it a lot, uh, then returned to the Pacific Northwest, ended up working at Microsoft uh for many, many years. Um, but in the background, while I was at Microsoft in particular, uh I done a little bit of writing when I was in New Mexico and Colorado, and that sort of you know wetted my appetite a bit. But when I got uh back up to the Seattle area, I uh I really started thinking maybe I'll try to write a book. I've always been a lover of literature and reading, and I can really attribute that to my parents. Uh my mother had books all over the house. My father was always reading like newspapers and magazines, and my whole family, we just were really steeped in in literature. And uh so I was fortunate, you know, to have that kind of inbred in me. And um so as as I got older and was working at Microsoft, I just decided, you know, I love to read so much, and I'm always reading. It'd be fun to try to write a book myself. Uh, so I hadn't really taken any classes and didn't feel all that confident about you know how do you get into it, but I started um uh reading books about how to write fiction, and I just sort of started sitting down and trying to do it, and before long, I decided I would commit to one hour a night of writing, and that if I was gonna make a go of it, I had to be consistent and not just kind of try to squeeze it in here and there. So uh it was difficult uh to do that, but I'd say generally for many years I sat down and wrote every night. And again, it was really spurred by my my love of reading and my desire to try to tell a story myself. See, like, you know, do I have that in me? And um uh eventually, after trying, you know, to write this kind of book and that kind of book, I kind of gravitated to middle grade literature, which is basically uh ages eight to twelve, you could say. Uh, I've always loved stories for that age group. Like when I was a kid, I loved the books by Roald Dahl, the Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, and James and the Giant Peach, and um uh I love The Lion, the Witch in the Wardrobe, and I loved a book called The Phantom Toll Booth. A bunch of books like when I was a kid that I was really, really into. And I love classics like The Wind and the Willows and Tom Sawyer and Treasure Island, and all that stuff is sort of uh aimed at kids at that in-between time of eight to twelve. Uh, so I just decided, well, I like stories that target that audience. So maybe I'll try to write a book for kids of that age. So I sat down and an idea came to me about a girl who'd go to these snowy, you know, northern territory in the mountains under mysterious circumstances, and she finds a book in the library and she's not sure why she's there, and she's this big hotel that she goes to in the mountains by a big lake. And I just had all these ideas and they kind of coalesced or came together, and I advanced on writing my first kid's book, Winter House. So that's sort of the background for how it came to be. I worked on it again in the evenings uh for many years. Um, felt like, you know, in fits and starts. I didn't really know what I was doing. But at one point, I returned to a book that I loved as a kid by James Bel Airs. It's called The House with a Clock in Its Walls. And that book really fired my imagination. Uh my teacher read it to our class in fifth grade. And I thought, you know, I'm working on this book, Winterhouse, but I'm not sure like if it's working, the pacing or the suspense or whatever. So I went back and I studied that book, The House with a Clock and Its Walls, very carefully. And I mapped out stuff and everything. I was trying to figure out how did John Bel Airs somehow turn the key on my imagination so that that book excited me when I was a kid and stayed with me all these years. And I brought some of those learnings to my work on Winterhouse and eventually thought, well, maybe I have a book here. Um, and then, you know, I can give you more details if you want, but I uh figured out how to find an agent. I got online, figured that out, and then she connected with book companies. And uh the agent was Rena Rossner, she's fantastic, and she connected with my editor, Christi Otaviano, uh, who was then at McMillan and is now at a little brown hashette. And um, you know, it turned in Winterhouse turned into a real book and a real series and led to other books as well. So um I'll quit there, probably giving you more detail than you need, but that's kind of been that's kind of the journey, you know, how I got from not knowing anything about it to having uh some books out by now.

Seth Adam Smith

Well, I was going to ask you, um tip the typical question I ask an author is is a book that sort of sets things in motion for them. And and you had already answered it. It was the the the house with the clock on its walls. They made a terrible movie about that.

Ben Guterson

You know, I deliberately did not see the movie because you know sometimes you'll you'll see a movie and it'll kind of intrude on your vision of the story, and I love that book so much. I I know that uh Jack Black was in it, and you know, he's great, but it didn't strike me that his brand of acting or whatever would align with my image of that book. So I just didn't want any of the movie stuff in my head. I've never watched the movie, but yeah, I know it came out like I don't know, six or seven years ago.

Seth Adam Smith

So but you would definitely, I haven't read the book, you definitely recommend the book then.

Ben Guterson

I love it. I'm not gonna say it's the greatest book ever written. I mean, you know, there are other, you know, middle grade books or classics that I think are better, but I will say that for whatever reason, uh, some of the elements of mystery and magic and suspense and a kid getting thrown into a situation where you know it's a leap beyond his own parents. Suddenly, he's with an uncle and these magical people, and all of it to me just sort of just spoke to a lot of uh like I don't know, desires or interests or thoughts about enchantment that I had when I was a kid that I I retained. And I I just felt there was something about the whole vibe or mood of that story that I wanted to locate somehow and and figure out. So it's it's perfect, especially for like October, because it's kind of a creepy, you know, autumn almost Halloween type of book. But um, yeah, I I recommend it. I I thought it was great. Definitely helped me uh when I was struggling with Winterhouse to figure out well, what does an author do? Uh, so I I I really made a study of that book to try to understand things a little bit better.

Seth Adam Smith

Remarkable. I mean, for me, um, and I actually haven't talked about this before in an interview, but it for me it was the books um by Lloyd Alexander. I don't know if you've heard of Lloyd Alexander.

Ben Guterson

Like the three kings or something, or very close, the book of three, but yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Seth Adam Smith

And then he has the he has the The High King is the fifth book. So yeah, yeah. The the Black Cauldron is probably his most well-known title. Yeah, but I remember, like you were saying, it was in school where you read read this book and it and something just clicked. Um I I remember, I mean, all the names are Welsh. The way they're spelled are not how they're pronounced, and you can't even read how they're spelled. I mean, it is just it's like a different language, yeah. But but for some reason, that story just unlocked something. And I remember my senior year, I actually was there was an assignment in an English class to send a letter to an author, and I sent a letter to Lloyd Alexander. I didn't know um at the time that he's basically on death's doorstep. Like he was he was to the end of his life there, and he wrote back a handwritten, well, it was on his typewriter. You could tell it's on his typewriter, and then he wrote a little handwritten note thanking me, and and he answered some of my questions and sent it back. And come to find out later, um, he was the kind of person. I mean, everybody had said this, that if you were to go to his house, um, he would, and you'd say, Hey, I've read your books, I love your books, he'd be like, Well, that's great. Do you want to go get a piece of pizza and we'll talk about it? You know, and and he was that gregarious, he would just sit down and chat with people. And something about that, I mean, I he was in Philadelphia, I was in Salt Lake City. I mean, some, but it it felt like a missed opportunity, you know, to sit down with an author of these really amazing stories that had touched me. And I was like, I don't want to miss that. And that's kind of the reason behind this is that there's lots of authors out there who would love to sit down and talk about good stories and stuff. And so it's just interesting how books do this to us at a at a young age.

Ben Guterson

It's incredible. I mean, you know, uh, you know, having just uh an encounter like that can make a huge difference in in someone's life, you know. Uh a favorable comment from a teacher or encouragement from an adult leader or something can make a huge difference in someone's life. And and the the person in that position might not even, you know, recognize it or be thinking about that. But to the younger person or the you know, the the the mentee or whoever it might be, uh it can make a huge difference. Give them some confidence or give them some something to grab on to that they were taken seriously by someone they respect or someone older. And you, you know, it sounds like you you had that, you know, little drop of inspiration from from him. So that's that's phenomenal.

Seth Adam Smith

Yeah, and it was it was made more impactful by the the knowledge that he was at the end of his life. He was in pain, and he was like, Well, I'm gonna write to these. I mean, I well, I know I wasn't the only one he's writing letters to all these kids who loved his stories. I mean, that was a testament to him. Um, so let's talk a little bit about Winterhouse. I can obviously, I having read the book, I can see the influence of the house with the clock in its walls, and and you were even, you know, dropping hints about some of the themes and the imagery uh that you were getting early on in writing. But for those who who haven't visited that world yet or read that book yet, you know, just give us a quick sense of what the book and the series is about.

Ben Guterson

Yeah, well, um, the main character is Elizabeth Summers. And uh as in a lot of these stories, you know, she's an orphan, she lives with a mean and aunt and uncle. Uh, like a lot of books, you know, going way back to mythology, to the grimms, to fairy tales, up to Harry Potter and beyond. You know, that's kind of a trope, but whatever. It's it's it's it's interesting. As a sideline, I once heard Philip Pullman, I think that's the you know, the golden compassion.

Seth Adam Smith

Yeah, yeah.

Ben Guterson

I heard him on a podcast, and he said something like, Well, uh, yeah, so many authors use that trope of like the orphan because you need to get the parents out of the way so that the kid can go through a journey of discovery without the parents kind of hemming him in. And that made a lot of sense because you see that in a lot of stories. So Elizabeth Summers in my book is an orphan, and through uh, like I say, mysterious circumstances, she ends up during her winter holiday or break from school, going way up north to this hotel called Winter House. And she thinks it's going to be a total drag and you know, terrible place. But it's this phenomenal hotel, uh 13 stories tall and you know, beautiful place, and everyone's nice to her, and all this, and she can't figure out what's going on. But in the hotel, there's a three-story library with like thousands and thousands of books, and she's a bookworm. And uh almost right away she finds a strange book uh that has some magical properties, and she starts realizing there's all these strange things going on in the hotel, and she makes a good friend, and there's all these mysterious occurrences there, and a weird sort of family history that's impinging on the present. And she realizes pretty quickly she needs to bring her own powers of like uh sleuthing and code breaking and much more to bear on what's going on at Winterhouse in order to make sure nothing bad happens to the hotel. While she's there, she falls more and more and more in love with the place and the people and and starts to feel very connected to it. So I don't want to spoil anything, give too much away, but um it's it's safe to say that you know she goes on this journey of sort of self-discovery while she's also learning a lot more about the hotel. Uh, the story continues in the second book, The Secrets of Winterhouse, and the third book called The Winter House Mysteries. And um, Elizabeth, she returned to the hotel a year later. Uh, in the first book, she was 11. In the second book, she's 12. And uh, and then a third book, just a few months later, she's still 12. But uh, suffice to say, uh, more mysteries arise, the danger gets you know more dangerous, and she really has to learn a lot about herself and maybe overcome some of her own growing pains to figure out how to make sure that she can keep Winterhouse and these people that she grows to love as safe as possible. So that's kind of it in a nutshell. But one thing about it, well, maybe two things. Um, I really got into the setting. Uh, I really enjoy trying to create a mood with with a place. Um, and I've had a number of people who read the book tell me, like, Winterhouse was so cool, it almost felt like another character. And I thought, wow, that's just what I was going for. You know, I wanted it to feel like like a place that was so alive, like you could picture yourself there, you know, around every corner, something interesting is gonna have, you know, exciting is gonna happen. Uh, and I really tried to work hard to make the hotel kind of come alive in people's imagination. So, you know, I hope I succeeded in some regard. And the other thing, the second thing I want to mention was uh I really enjoy wordplay and puzzles and codes and stuff like that. I don't really know why. I I used to play Scrabble with my mom when I was little, and I always like games like Hangman and those jumble word things, you know, that are like anagrams that you see in the newspaper. I like all that stuff a lot. And um I just sort of thought, well, if I like all that codes and puzzles and ciphers, maybe kids will or readers will as well. So I tried to work a lot of that into the book. In fact, in all my books, I kind of work all that stuff in. Um, so I just thought some of those elements would kind of um, you know, round out the book and make it give, give it more dimensions and kind of make it more interesting. Uh, I mean, it's hard enough to create a plot and characters that move the reader forward and they want to keep turning the pages, but I just thought I'll try to add extra little flourishes, codes and cool things of the hotel, and and maybe that'll you know keep the story humming along as well. So those are that's kind of an overview, I guess, of the trilogy.

Seth Adam Smith

Well, I it's fantastic, and you were talking about the house, uh the winter house being sort of a character, its own character. And I remember watching for the first time the Shawshank Redemption with a friend of mine. I had never seen it, and he made this comment, this offhand comment, uh, as the cameras panning over the prison uh at the very beginning of the movie, and he says, Well, here we go. We're introducing one of the main characters, the prison.

Ben Guterson

Wow, yeah.

Seth Adam Smith

And I've always thought about that because you never think about a building or a location being a main character. But I mean, even in Harry Potter, Hogwarts is a it is a main character, you can't escape that the need to go back to that location. It's just its own, it's got it's got such value because of what it means to the characters.

Ben Guterson

Yeah. Well, um, I'm I'm totally with you. That's a great observation your friend made. Um, I tried to do the same thing in the book that followed up the Winterhouse trilogy. It's called Einstein's Vista Point. Kind of a different tone I took in that book, much more serious subject matter, uh, much less fantasy uh or magic. Um, about a family grieving the loss of their youngest member. And they move out to a rural area uh about an hour outside of like the big city they used to live in. And on the fringe of their property is this uh dilapidated stone tower. And so I kind of wanted to use that tower and the you know, the dark forest all around, all the fir trees and hemlock trees that they wander through. And I kind of like I want to have that same sense of place as being really paramount in that in that book. And then after the Einsteins, I had a two book series. Uh, the first one, the first book in it was called The World Famous Nine, and the sequel is called The Shadow of the World Famous Nine. And those books take place in the largest department store in the entire world. This 19 story, like, you know, Emporium, um, this palace of shopping that I set in a Fictionalized uh southern Siberia. And I wanted to make the department store again, sort of like a character, like every floor that you uh can visit has something unique or marvelous about it that you know you like to sort of investigate and see what's going on on each floor as you you know go up or down. So I'm real big on setting, and I I like to think about these places where you know any anything might happen. Behind every door, something suspenseful could occur or something magical might might uh step out. So totally huge on that.

Seth Adam Smith

Well, it seems like uh if I understand correctly, basically, and I could be wrong, your your first novel, your first manuscript was Winterhouse, correct? First published book. Um first published, but does that mean the first written manuscript?

Ben Guterson

Well, um, you know, someone once told me uh almost every author's first book is not really their first book. Yes, and for me, that was definitely true. Uh, I imagine that's true for for many writers. You think you're working on your first book, and then you look back in retrospect and you realize I was practicing for my first book, you know. So um uh Winterhouse was definitely not the first book that I felt I I had completed, but it was the first book that I felt entirely satisfied with when I had completed it, and that you know, obviously connected with an agent and an editor, and then like miraculously me, ended up getting published.

Seth Adam Smith

Well, it's your debut novel, and it it was uh I mean it was a smash, and I don't know if it was an immediate splash or if it's gradual, but I mean it has been so well received, um, just phenomenal. I mean, how how have you um, I guess, reacted to the reaction? I mean, the response has been overwhelming. What's what's your response to all of that?

Ben Guterson

Well, I mean, my main response is I'm I'm happy that kids in particular like the book because I kind of put myself in the shoes of young people. Um I I remember what a thrill was for me when I was a kid to connect with a book. And you know, you enter this magical place. And so for me, it's kind of a major thrill to think, you know, kids are having that same experience with something that I wrote. Um, and that that really gets you, you know, to to think to think along those lines. I I just like I love to write. It's it's uh it's really fun. I I I mean, I love having an actual book out, but I love the process of writing. It's it's um I love the process of creating something. It's very satisfying to put words together and you feel like things are clicking, and put a story together, and create worlds and characters, and dialogue, and action, and scenes, and there's you know, uh, you you create something from nothing, and it's it's just it's it's really an amazing thing. Everyone loves to do that. So to see that readers have responded to it has been uh really nice. Um uh, you know, it was a trilogy. So some readers who maybe like the first book have gone on and read the other two, and and I tried to wrap up the trilogy nicely, you know, and make it seem like, you know, oh, all the loose ends kind of get tied up, you know. Um, it's been translated into 11 languages around the world. So it's really nice on my website. I have a form. I created the website, so it's the best I can do, but there is a form there that people can actually send me messages. So, you know, I hear from kids around the world. Um, these two brothers sent me a letter from Switzerland just last week. You know, like amazing stuff, you know, that you wouldn't even really imagine. So uh it's it's it's been great. I I I love to write, and uh it's it's great to have actual books out. Um, I guess in a way that's kind of validation, but it's hard to put it into words. To me, it's sort of not the most important thing. I I just love that you can give an experience to other readers, whether the adult or maybe especially kids, because that's primarily the audience I'm aiming for. It's gratifying to think that kids will like or even love your books. That that's that's huge for me.

Seth Adam Smith

Well, like I said, I I listened, I I was doing the audiobook, I was listening to it while I was hiking the Grand Canyon, and I I love hiking the Grand Canyon, I've done it numerous times, and I'll listen to a story. I'll kind of I'll be very selective about what I'm gonna listen to for eight hours, ten hours of hiking. And and then inevitably that book just is seared into my mind. I mean, I could go through the authors and the books like that, just they're just sympathetic, they're synonymous with the Grand Canyon. And it was Winterhouse now. They it's now in the the hall of fame for me. I mean, it I had I had a great experience listening to it. It was a wonderful, wonderful story. But but that's all the the positive stuff. I mean, there is a I sort of loosely structure these interviews around Joseph Campbell's The Hero's Journey, and authors feel called in a in a sense to to write or create these stories. Um, but like any protagonist in a good story, there's there's gonna be resistance. I mean, there's if there's no resistance, there's no growth, there's no there's really no story without any resistance. Um, what was the resistance that you were encountering either before or during publication or after publication, either internal or external, uh, on your own journey of of writing and publishing your stories, and how did you overcome it?

Ben Guterson

Well, that's yeah, that's uh very true, everything you say there. I mean, uh, I think there's a lot of self-doubt. I I think maybe anyone, practically in any field, I mean, you could be, you know, LeBron James or something, and wonder like, do I still have it or or do I have it or can I make it, you know? Um, and especially when you are unpublished, uh, you know, you're just working in isolation, uh, totally anonymously. You have you have very little notion, like, uh I on the right track, you know, would could this possibly be published someday? Some people are in uh writing groups, that's a phenomenal way for people to get feedback. I never really um did that for whatever reason. Maybe it was a mistake, maybe it wasn't. I don't know. I just never really did that. Um, but it's hard, you know. Writing, the the nature of writing is you you sit by yourself and you're dreaming up other worlds. So it can be difficult sometimes to know if you're on track. Uh you're not sure. I mean, if you're working a regular job, you know, your boss, your colleagues, or something, or you're kind of getting feedback a lot, you know, or if you're sensitive or receptive, you can kind of gauge what's happening. But as a writer, you often don't have that until you're very deep into the story. And you can go back and read over your pages and feel like this, you know, this is terrible. Like, what am I doing here? So, I mean, I definitely went through that, and I'm I'm I'm positive what I'm saying now is is near universal among writers. I mean, you you're just not sure sometimes, and you can be unsure even if you've published, you know, five, ten, fifty books, you know. Um each book is its new thing, and you're never quite sure if you're on the right track. I I I think I'd be a little scared or a little bit concerned if if I was sitting down and thinking, like, oh yeah, I got this nailed, I know exactly what I'm doing. I mean, you know, that that you talk about the hero's journey. I mean, that that wouldn't be the hero's journey. That would be like, you know, the 100-yard walk around the park. You know what I mean? It wouldn't, it wouldn't mean it wouldn't have any meaning, you know what I mean? I mean, a journey, like you say, has to uh push back on you somehow. There has to be something going on. So I went through that. You know, I don't I won't be as heavy to say it was like many dark nights of the soul, but you do go through that. You're like, I've invested so much time in this thing. Is it all a waste? You know, like will anyone ever be interested in reading it? Am I just is this essentially like I'm just journaling? Like this is just for myself, so I can figure myself out, you know, but but I want to write a book, that means I want people to actually read it, you know. So you go through a lot of self-doubt, and you're wondering are you putting something together that people will will want to read? Um, and you know, there's there are practical considerations as well that I think are part of the journey or the the difficulty. Um I committed to writing an hour every night for years and years and years. That was an hour that I wasn't like, you know, with my family, let's say, or doing uh some other activity, you know, I don't know, I could have been doing things that I guess would, you know, improve the world, or I could have been exercising. I don't, you know, whatever, whatever level of other activity I could have been doing, I was not engaged in because I was uh doing the writing. So uh, you know, how are you gonna allocate your time? If you have a dream, you you've got to commit to it. So that's an hour that I wasn't spending on other things. Um, so there's there's a lot that goes into it. It's it's very difficult on your way to being a debut author. But I will tell you, even after you've had a book or two, or like I say, several published, um, you know, that thing of like, what have you done for me lately, or you know, you're only as good as your last book, or something like that. Uh, it always exists. And really, it should, because you shouldn't get a pass just because you've already had a few books published. You you have to keep, you know, upping your game and and staying, keeping your edge going. I really do believe that. You don't want to get, you know, rest on any so-called laurels if you, you know, you even have any. Um, so that journey, it's like it it does go in a circle. It's a big circle with a lot of difficulty along the way. But for me, I don't reach the end. I I work on a new book and I'm you know, I'm I'm I'm pushing that rock again up the hill or around the circle or whatever the you know analogy is I'm trying to make here again and again and again. So I think you're totally right. Uh, you know, the hero's journey, and and and those are some of the uh difficulties or dilemmas that I encountered along the way.

Seth Adam Smith

Well, and you're right to say uh that it's a near universal uh feeling or thought that authors have, uh sort of self-doubt. I mean, I I I'm fairly confident there in every single interview I've done with authors, and they're successful. I mean, like yourself, like I mean, thousands of reviews on books, multiple publications, bestsellers, you know, accolades, going to schools, getting letters, and but almost all of them in the interviews would say something to the effect of I had no business writing anything. I I'm not a good writer. I mean, almost all of them had said something like that. Um, it's fascinating to me because I think I I can't explain it. I I think that there is something, there's some sort of power that you can only, a creative power that you can only tap into with that level of humility. Like you were saying, with with pride, like if somebody's pride, then and oh I it's perfect, you know, there's no challenge, there's no resistance. Their their work's terrible. I mean, it it just is, it doesn't come out right. There's something something that is easily gotten, it just falls apart. Yeah, but the challenge that these people, when they're when there's a a level of humility when they approach creating something, that's where the magic happens. And I I can't quite explain it, but it just it does seem to be universal, as you're suggesting.

Ben Guterson

Yeah, I I think if it you know came easy, I think it'd be formulaic. You know, I mean, you can you just sort of work uh according to a template or something preset and then just kind of you know color inside the lines or something. Um, and and that that may work for some people, but but I do think I do think the more lasting um stories are the ones where even the reader can sense like, you know, the the the author figured something out in the process of putting this book together. The the author, you know, uh uh ended up in a different place than than where he started and and figured things out along the way. Uh I like that. You know, you know, I like when you read an essay and you're like, you know, this this author discovered what they were going to say in the course of writing this essay. They didn't just say, I know exactly the point I want to make, and all I have to do is flesh it out. The essay, the attempt was an act of discovery in itself. And I I think a book should be uh the same way. So I I I'm I'm with you, Seth, on what you said.

Seth Adam Smith

Well, after um The Winter House, basically, um you started working on another series. You we talked about it very briefly, but I wanted to go a little bit more in depth on it. Um, it's the the world famous nine series, and it's it's just two books, as I understand it, correct?

Ben Guterson

Yeah, that's right.

Seth Adam Smith

Um give our give our listeners an idea, a little bit more of an idea of what that book is about and what inspired that.

Ben Guterson

Sure. Well, I'll start with the inspiration. Um I I mentioned I grew up in Seattle, Washington, and when I was a kid in downtown Seattle, there were two major department stores. Uh, you know, there's not a lot of department stores anymore. I'm uh Macy's, I guess, is sort of the primary one, at least, you know, in the world that I've experienced the last decade or two or three. But when I was younger, there were these grand old department stores in many cities. Department store generally, you know, uh is vertical rather than malls that are more horizontal and just sort of comprise very discrete shops. Department stores were nicely curated, all sort of like, you know, coherent um departments or shops uh in a single building. And uh when I was a kid in Seattle, there were two primary ones that were fantastic. One was called Frederick and Nelson, one was called the Bon Marché, and they're long since gone. Um uh and my parents would take us there, you know, me and my brothers and sisters, uh especially during the holiday season in December, and these places would be all decked out. You know, the lights, the smell of the air, the packages, all you know, the decorations and everything, and uh the music, and it was like a wonderland for me. Uh, I don't know why I was so taken with it, but it it was just like walking into like an enchanted realm, these stores. It seems a little silly, like as a kid, I was just sort of a sucker for commercialism or something. I guess if you want to be cynical, you could put it that way. But it was to me as a kid very magical to go to these department stores when they were all dressed up for Christmas, particularly. Um, and something about those stores, they felt like these self-contained universes, and you know, you'd take the escalator up to one floor or the next, or you'd get out of the S the elevator and this, you know, slides open and something greets your eyes. It just felt sort of magical to me. Uh, and I always carried that with me. So I as I got older, I thought, you know, that would be a cool setting for a book, I think. Like, what if I set a book in the largest department store in the world and it had like every floor had something incredible, you know, bakeries and toy stores and candy departments and a pet store and bookstores and yeah, Ferris wheel on the roof, and you know, just all this crazy stuff where even if you weren't gonna spend a penny in the place, you would, as a kid in particular, you could just go there and just spend the whole day up and down, finding all kinds of cool, you know, making all these cool discoveries on every floor. So I just decided that would be the setting for my story. And I did a lot of research on uh department stores that used to exist in the United States and just kind of tried to pull in a lot of elements. And then I decided I would set my store uh be 19 stories tall, largest department store in the world, and it would be in Siberia, in the metropolis in Siberia. Um, so it's basically about a boy named Xander Olinga, and his parents are uh professors, and they're going for research in like far away Siberia. So they leave Xander at uh this store. It's called the uh number nine plaza, but everyone just calls it the nine, and because it's so famous, that's why I call my book the World Famous Nine. Uh, because it is owned and operated by Xander's grandmother, uh, his mother's mother. And so conveniently his parents can go off and do their research, and Xander gets to stay for a couple months in like the greatest place in the world, as far as he's concerned. Uh, when he gets there, as in a lot of you know these stories, it turns out there's something a little dangerous going on, a little dark, there's a magical secret uh about the place, and there's uh an object that went missing decades before, and there's a legend or a rumor that this magical thing might reappear during uh by coincidence, just when Xander is there. Uh he and his grandmother are afraid this magical thing might fall into the hands of uh the wrong people who uh want to do harm to the number nine plaza. So uh Xander he makes a good friend there, a girl named Natasha, and they have to follow some clues and codes and look into things to make sure that uh the magical object doesn't end up with the wrong person in order to preserve the world famous nine. So, some of similar aspects to Winterhouse. You know, I had so much fun with Winterhouse, I thought it'd be kind of cool to have some similar things, but I also didn't want to just recreate, you know, the story, just like transplant the same thing. So it has many, many different elements, uh, and it was a lot of fun to work on, as was the the sequel. It's very interesting to me. The the sequel, uh The Shadow of the World Famous Nine. I went all out on puzzles in that book, more so than in any of my previous books. And um uh it's it's funny for readers who've gotten that as far as that book, it's by far my best reviewed book. I mean, I love to read reviews. I'm I'm not thin-skinned at all. I love even the stuff that says this, you know, this book stinks and all that. I like to see how readers respond because I learn a lot from that. Um, but it's been remarkable to me. Uh, that sequel, my most recent book, is by far my my highest rated book. Uh it's still, I guess you could say it's finding its audience a bit. Um, but you just never know what's going to happen with with with a book. But that one was a lot of fun. Uh both the books in that series were a lot of fun. And like I say, I really enjoyed doing uh some crazy puzzles in that second book. So that's the world famous nine stuff.

Seth Adam Smith

Well, this is something I'm gonna aside, but when you say uh Siberia, did you have like a city in mind? This Russia, correct?

Ben Guterson

Right. Um I my city is called Novotrovsk, and I actually based it on a city whose name I can't recall. The name is somewhat similar because you know, remarkably, I discovered in southern southern Siberia is not like frozen tundra. It's like, you know, um there is a the metropolis that I can't recall the name of, it has like over a million people, and you know, we hear Siberia and you just think like, you know, wasteland or something, but parts of southern Siberia are probably just like it'd be like you know, going to Toronto or something, you know, a huge city and you know, not not all that bad. I'm sure winters would be bad, but you know, so I kind of had that in mind when I was looking into things. I I deliberately don't place my stories in actual locations, but I kind of evoke actual locations. Like the Winterhouse books, they basically take place probably like in the northern Canadian Rockies, but I never say that. The Einstein book uh basically takes place like in Oregon or Washington, but I never say it. And the world famous time, I don't I don't think I actually ever use the word Siberia in the book, but maybe I do. But uh most a lot of the names and words sound that kind of faky Russian, you know. Um like what there was that show Rocky and Bullwinkle on the bad guys always say sort of Russian, you know. So it's kind of that stuff, you know. But I uh part of it is I don't want to. My books are in this world, but about 10 or 20 percent gets a little skewed, so I don't want to anchor them completely. I don't want people to get attached to, oh yeah, that takes place in this city, and then they're like, I found when you do that, then people are like, Well, wait a minute, no, it's actually two miles away is the river, and you know, I don't want people to get hung up on that, so I just kind of you know let loose a little bit with it.

Seth Adam Smith

Well, that's I mean, I it's so funny because all these places that you're listing off where you taught, where you currently live, uh up in the northern Rockies. I mean, I'm like, all of these places I've been to and I love like if you We're talking about the southern United States or Mexico. I'm like, I've never, I'm not, I don't, I don't have any connection there, but Siberia. I mean, I lived in what essentially was Siberia for about a year. It's Vladivostok. Um, out in Russia and out in Russia, and I've got a painting behind me that takes place in Siberia, but I just I'm I'm already no, I already know, like, just based on what you're saying, I'm like, well, okay, I've got I've got another book I'm gonna be reading here. I just I love uh Russian stuff, Russian themes, all of that. It just speaks to me. I guess that's the Alaskan part in me, but that's awesome. That's um you then pivoted from sort of these more, I guess I would say a little bit more magical, to something a little bit more sombre and serious, or at least deeper themes, uh, with the Einsteins of Vista Point. And it it does deal with heavier topics. I mean, it opens up, you know, pretty heavy. The premise of it is pretty heavy. Uh, what was the decision to write something like that? And and were you trying to wrestle with some questions of your own?

Ben Guterson

Um I would say uh the questions weren't personal. I I've been fortunate to not, you know, you know, lose a child or something like that. In the book, it's a family mother and father, and they had five kids and then they lost the youngest. Um, so it was the grief of sort of losing a child. Uh, and in particular, the next youngest boy, Zach, uh, who's about 11 or 12 in the book, he feels a lot of guilt over what happened. Um not really because he did anything, but he feels that maybe he could have done something to stop this accident from occurring. So I did want to try something a little bit different. Um after the Winterhouse books, uh, I talked with my editor, Christy Ottaviano, um uh who's fantastic, and um, you know, she said, you know, I I I definitely uh would love to see you, you know, try to do something, you know, maybe a little bit different, uh, and not necessarily like another sort of magic code type of book, you know, uh fantasy. Um, and she had confidence in me that I could do that. And I I sort of wanted to try that as well. Um uh and and I loved doing it. It was it was a very different kind of book. It it uh it didn't have the reception, I guess you could say, the the Winterhouse books, which is fine. You know, this may sound a little weird, but you know, sometimes you're into a group or a artist, musical, you know, uh artist, and they put out two or three albums, and then like album number four, it's like, what are they doing now? I mean, that's a totally different style, you know, and sometimes they lose their original audience, and sometimes they're like they attract other people or new people, and they're like, wow, this guy can really flex his wings in a different direction. Like, I didn't see him doing that musically, you know. So I I don't want to sound, I don't want to overdo this in any way, but with the Einstein's book, I just thought, you know, I I want to see if I can try something a little bit different and and and you know, try to broaden my repertoire just a little bit. Again, I don't want to get too heavy with it, but uh just a challenge for me, and my editor was completely behind it. Um, it was a ton of fun, it was great. Um, I I I I've had some people tell me, wow, yeah, that book was really moving. I've had people tell me they, you know, they were in tears at the end of it and all that, which is, you know, uh it is kind of a sad book, but ultimately redemptive, I think. My next book uh is called The Time Corridor, and it takes place in, again, a very fictionalized sort of Japan. And it's about a boy, uh, he and his mother, they're not well off. She's a school teacher, and they live near this huge museum, and they live almost within sight of the ocean as well. Uh, the boy's father went missing uh actually before he was even born. And the mother has hoped that he will return, the father or husband will return even after all these years. And the boy would love to hold keeps his dream alive, although both of them sort of realistically think like, well, he he he probably died a long time ago. Well, there's this huge museum near where they live, and in it, it's it's enormous, and in it, there's one wing devoted to time pieces, um, you know, sundials and uh hourglasses and uh uh you know, clocks and watches and all these amazing time pieces. And uh this wing is called the time corridor, and uh the boy can see part of it from the window of his apartment. And one night he sees a light come on in the window of the time corridor, and he gets an odd feeling, and he starts thinking about his father. And anyway, he starts to he goes and visits the museum, he meets the museum owner. It turns out there used to be um a huge hedge maze not far from the museum that was built or created by the original owner of the museum well over 100 years before. Also, in the museum itself, on the huge landing of the second floor, the floor is created out of tiles that almost look like a kind of a maze itself. The boy starts to realize there's something going on with this maze in the museum, and there's something very strange about these time pieces in the time corridor, and he starts to get this sense that perhaps there's a way he can figure out what happened to his father all those years ago. So I won't go any further than that, but I had a ton of fun with this book. It's not really that heavy on uh wordplay and codes and ciphers, but I got really into mazes. I read an article a few years ago about this guy who created mazes in England, hedge mazes in England in the 1960s and 70s, and then he disappeared like in the late 70s or early 80s. And I was like, what is that all about? And and so I started looking into mazes, um, particularly hedge mazes around the world. There's now you know scores of them everywhere. And so this boy has to figure out the secret of this maze that's in the museum. The book also is a little more sci-fi almost um than my other books, because there's a little bit of an element of time travel in this book. So I I I don't think I'll give any, I don't think I should give away any more, but it was a lot of fun to work on this book. So that's what my next one, The Time Corridor, is about. And and when does that book come out? It probably it was gonna be maybe the end of this year, but I think it'll be early next year, 2027.

Seth Adam Smith

Next year, okay. Well, every good story, and maybe I shouldn't say good story, I should say every meaningful story has a a theme or a or a moral core. Um, you know, across your books, Winterhouse, the The World Famous Nine, the Einsteins of Vista Point. I I noticed, at least in in Winterhouse, you know, those themes just kind of bubble up to the surface that make the story more meaningful. But what for you are are the themes that just seem to keep popping back up for you as as the core or the heart of your books?

Ben Guterson

Well, I I think theme kind of emerges naturally from an author's personality. I've discovered and sort of see sometimes when I read books that if a person uh explicitly sets out to deliver or communicate a theme or a moral, I think the book can be kind of stilted. So I I I feel for myself personally, and I think the books that I most gravitate to are the ones where uh any theme kind of arises organically out of the material with a story. If you ever, if you've ever read um Tom Sawyer, I think like the at the very beginning, Mark Twain says something like anyone trying to discover a moral in this book will be shot. Anyone feel like it's it's you know done in that Twain-esque way where he kind of makes it clear like don't get too heavy on, don't get too deep here, you know, like don't go looking for all this stuff.

Seth Adam Smith

But of course, of course, that sets you up to look for.

Ben Guterson

Yeah, yeah, you're right. So I I feel here's here's what I'm getting at. When I think about like setting, I realize I I have these huge places, these huge locations where kids enter into them and they're trying to figure out, trying to get their bearings, they're trying to orient themselves. And so I think in some measure that carries over to my sense that kids in that age 8 to 12 range, they are in some degree trying to orient themselves. They left behind the world of being made comfortable or safe entirely by their parents. I mean, they still are, obviously, you know, but you have more autonomy when you get to be age in the eight to 12 range. Um, your teachers aren't doing everything for you. There's more exploration. When you go to the library, you get to find your own books, you know, rather than sort of, you know, them being selected for you. Like there's a lot more going on about you figuring out who you are in whatever space you're in at that age. And I think that's why I'm attracted to making these places, whether it's a museum or a big store or a big hotel or a stone tower, kids enter into these places. It's disorienting. There's something magical. Is the magic good? Is it bad? How am I relating to the magic? How am I figuring out the magic? And then through figuring all that out, how am I figuring out myself? How am I going to navigate this time where I'm no longer a kid and I'm going to move into being an adult and have responsibilities and have to figure things out for myself without people telling me what to do? So I just sort of feel if there is a theme in my books, it it's kind of related to that. Young people trying to figure out how they figure out in the world without being directed, without being, you know, put down, without being told what to do. Uh, so I I guess that's that's sort of how I feel about it.

Seth Adam Smith

Well, I mean, like one of the things I love about middle grade authors is or and middle grade stories is just it's just more hopeful. Um, kids by nature just have a more optimistic view of the world. And you go and read these very cynical books from you know, written for adult audiences, and it's just there's just dark and dreary. And I'm like, I I'm already, I get that naturally. I just want to go, I want to see some hope, and and so I really admire what what you and other authors do, the stories that you guys create, because it it does, it does bring a lot of a sense of wonder, magic, hope. Um, it's very powerful. And one of the things that surprised me, I mean, we talked about um authors and books that kind of shaped us, uh inspired us when we were younger. You know, as as impactful as those books were to us as readers, one of the things that surprised me in interviewing authors is that the process of writing a story actually changes them far more than you know the impact of the book being read by somebody else. Um, how has storytelling, how has writing these stories, how has it changed you as a person?

Ben Guterson

Well, um for me, I'd say it has sort of solidified my sense of wanting to make sure that what I deliver to people is consonant with who I am as a human being. That sounds maybe very heavy, but I'd say at the outset of working on these books, I was primarily concerned with you know delivering a good story. Perhaps it has a theme in there and will enchant people in some way. But I think as I started to work on these books more, I realized like you can't really hide who you are on the page. It starts to come out, your own personality starts to manifest itself on the page. And I didn't, I don't think I fully appreciated that when I first started this. And so the responsibility of working on these books and knowing kids will read them, and as I say, I hope like them and maybe love them and maybe even treasure them. I I don't think I really anticipated the responsibility of that when I got first got into this game. Uh, so it has changed me. It's made me more uh respectful of sort of honoring the the process that I'm in. I I I want to make sure I say this the right way. I don't think I thought as clear clearly or with as clear eyes about my audience when I first started working on books. I wanted the books to be liked and wanted to honor the tradition of middle grade literature, but I didn't quite understand how high that that bar was. And it's changed me when I sit down to write, and I hope it changed me in in other ways as well, even when I'm not writing.

Seth Adam Smith

Yeah, it's a perfect segue. And I wrote it down. You wanted to be consonant with you as a human being. You don't you can't hide who you are on the page, it starts to come out. I love that. Um I'm I'll give you in advance the question, it's kind of the final question before I ask how people can find you. Um, the final question I like to ask is a story that inspires you to move forward on your literal journey. It can be a fictional story, a historical story. Um, like I said, there's a I'll I'll widen the screen. There's a painting behind me. Um, and it takes place basically in Siberia, or as this young man is going into Siberia. Uh, and it's it's the story of Fyodor Dostoevsky in Russia, when he had written, he was a really gifted writer, and he had written um these these criticisms against the czar. And if you know anything about Russian history, you don't criticize the leaders. It always comes back to get you. And he didn't the czar didn't like it. He was going to kill Dostoevsky and his friends because of what he had written on a page. And um, and at the moment they were going to be executed, uh, their sentence was commuted to uh like seven years in Siberia. So that's why you said Siberia. And I was like, okay, well, I guess I gotta talk about this. But um on his way to the train, he's in chains, he's going to the train to go to Siberia. This woman comes out of nowhere, and that's and that's in the painting. This woman comes out and greets him, and she gives him uh it was a New Testament, she gives him, she gives him some rubles, she gave him this gift, and he was so touched by this gift, he kept it with him. Not only every day, he slept with it under his head in in labor camp, he slept every night with it under his head, but he also kept it with him the rest of his life, and it transformed him. Like that story, like he he couldn't understand why this person would come out and do this for him. And I love that story because he left prison a different man, he wrote all these beautiful works. Like you were saying, you can't hide who you are on the page. It starts to come out. He was a very cynical person before he went in to prison. He was a very hopeful person when he came out and wrote all these beautiful things. And I I love a good story that inspires people to move forward, and I love that story right there because this woman had done this this act of service that transformed a man's life and changed the culture and the history of Russia because of what she had done. But that being said, um I'll ask you, what is a what is a story that inspires you to move forward in in your life and in your your literal journey of your writing and your literal, literal journey?

Ben Guterson

Well, um uh I'm sure if I thought about for an hour or two or looked around my library or whatever, I might come up with a different answer. But really, hearing you talk, um, off the top of my head, a story that I have loved for years, I think since I was about 18 or 19, um is uh an anonymous poem, and I'm blanking on when it was authored maybe the 14th century, 13th century, called Sir Gowan and the Green Knight.

Seth Adam Smith

Oh, yes.

Ben Guterson

And yeah, it's it's very familiar. I mean, lots of people know this story. You know, it's part of, I don't know if it's exact, strictly speaking, part of like the Arthurian cycle, but you know, anyway, Sir Gowan or Gawain, sometimes people say I'm not really sure how to pronounce his name, but I always heard Sir Gowan and the Green Knight. It's an amazing story. Um, and I won't recap the story, but you know, uh, I actually think Campbell, Joseph Campbell, you mentioned the hero's journey. I think Campbell cites it in one of his books. I can recall him talking about it. Yeah, because it really is this incredible journey of a knight who has to keep his word and confront a challenge that seems absolutely insurmountable. Uh, one where he's certain he'll lose his life by meeting the challenge, but he can't back down, even though he's sure he will die. And along the way, he goes through all kinds of mind games with himself and is subject to all kinds of strange temptations and games as well, and isn't sure what he can rely on, his own resources or magic or God. He's not sure what to do to confront this challenge. So again, I won't tell the whole story, people can read it, but that story is really uh moving to me. Um and on on all kinds of levels, just on the elements that I just mentioned, it's exciting, it's thrilling. Um also um the lines of poetry themselves are um very beautiful. Um uh it's told in an alliterative style, so that each line sort of moves you forward in a very beautiful way. Um so it works on so many different levels uh that I find that story very inspiring. Uh just to mention something, you know, the language in that poem is so beautiful, it makes me realize as well. I recognize some books that I respond to in terms of plot and character. Sometimes I don't get all that into them because sentence by sentence the lines are not that interesting to me. Like the word choice or the rhythm of the sentences isn't that interesting. And I do like to read books where the um writing itself is musical, has a quality to it where it doesn't just sort of feel generic or that the author just was racing to tell the plot. You know, that was the main thing. I like the line-by-line stuff as well. So that's just something that came to my mind when I was mentioning the Sir Gowan and the Green Knight. Uh, so yeah, that there you have it. That story's meant a lot to me. I I've revisited that one, I can't tell you how many times over the years.

Seth Adam Smith

It's a good one, it's especially for this context, because I mean, he literally uh too many puns with literally. Um, he literally does go on a journey um to confront this challenge. He's he's challenged at the beginning to leave the comfort of his castle, basically, and and then he has to go and meet the challenge, but it's a journey, and he has to go, and there's resistance, there's temptations. It's it's a perfect story to sort of encapsulate a hero's journey.

Ben Guterson

Yeah.

Seth Adam Smith

Um well, Ben, thank you so much. Um, how can people who want to learn more about you, want to support you, how can they find you? And uh and what would you encourage them to check out first among all of your your many wonderful books?

Ben Guterson

Well, I have a website that I made many years ago. Um, and somehow with like I guess virtual duct tape or something, it sort of hangs together. Um, and I have fun with every once in a while. I don't always update it, but it's there, it's just benguderson.com. I don't even think I think just ben gudersen all one word.com. I I I I imagine it wouldn't be difficult to find. I'm on Instagram. Um I'm not the greatest social media person, but I try to post something fun every once in a while, and that's just Ben.guderson, you know. At Ben.guderson on on uh Instagram and I'm on Facebook. Uh I'm you know, anyone who gets online can figure out how to find these things easily, I'm sure. Just all my name. Uh and you can drop me a line on any of those if you want to. I have a contact form on my website. So easy to get in touch with me. I'd be happy to write you back if you have a question or comment or whatever. You know, you know, um you could have written that book better, Ben. So whatever you want to say is fine with me.

Seth Adam Smith

Uh, I will put a plug in here for your audiobooks. You've you've had some very gifted narrators. Narrators can break a book, and you've got some fantastic narrators.

Ben Guterson

Yeah, no doubt about it, and also great illustrators. You, I mean, I've been lucky because my uh editor is really big on having illustrations. That's one thing you miss on the audiobooks, as beautiful as they are. But um, I've had phenomenal illustrators, primarily Chloe Bristol for my Winterhouse books and the cover of the nine books, and Christina Kister for my uh interiors on the uh World Famous Nine. So I've been really, really lucky. Sophie Amos did the audio on the um Winterhouse books and Elise Arsenal for the um World Famous Nine book. So uh I mean, really, really great stuff. What which books do you think they should get first? Oh yeah, yeah. So this is always tough, you know. That one obviously Winterhouse is my most popular book, and it and because it's sort of tied to the holiday season every December, it seems to kind of like yeah, renews the popularity, it seems like, which is you know really fun. Um uh so you know that might be a nice place for people to start, and maybe they'll want to go forward from there. And the the world famous nine books are my most recent ones, and like I say, if reviews or ratings are any indication, actually, my most recent book is the one that readers seem to like the most. So I don't really know, you know, Seth. Uh it's hard to say. Hopefully, if you happen to pick up any of my books, you'll like them and might feel interested to read more of them.