Write What Fascinates You 📚 Stuart Gibbs on Spy School, FunJungle, and Writing An Adventurous Life

Most writers are told to “write what you know.” Stuart Gibbs encourages authors to write what fascinates them...

In this fascinating episode of A LITERAL JOURNEY, I sit down with bestselling author Stuart Gibbs—the author behind Spy School, FunJungle, Charlie Thorne, Once Upon A Tim, and The Last Musketeer series. Stuart shares his incredible journey from writing stories as a child (showcasing his first, "homemade" book), to working in Hollywood (Anastasia, anyone??), to becoming an author of more than 40 books.

Along the way, we talk about his real-life adventures: cage diving with great white sharks, facing down a charging elephant, and rescuing children from drowning, and how his experiences and real-life adventures have influenced his stories.

Stuart chats about persistence, and why success in publishing is often a slow, steady climb—not a single breakthrough moment. He also shares one of the most powerful pieces of writing advice I’ve ever heard: don’t write what you know… write what fascinates you.

Whether you’re a reader, writer, parent, teacher, or an adventurer, I hope this episode encourages you to open a book (or pick up a pen) and embark on your own literal journey.

About STUART GIBBS:

A few interesting things that Stuart Gibbs has done: Worked at a zoo. Researched capybaras (the world's largest rodents). Climbed Mount Kilimanjaro. Cage dived with great white sharks. Faced down a charging elephant. Swum with penguins in the Galapagos. Ice-climbed a glacier in Patagonia. Visited the cockpit of the Space Shuttle Atlantis. Helped rescue sixteen children from drowning off the coast of Israel. Written a few movies that actually got made (See Spot Run; Repli-Kate; Showdown). Worked on a few animated movies (Anastasia; Open Season 3; Mickey, Donald, Goofy: The Three Musketeers).

He is currently at work on several more books -- and the screenplay for Spy School the movie/series.

💻 VISIT Stuart Gibbs's official website: https://stuartgibbs.com/

📖 READ Ape Escape: https://amzn.to/3PmV0I7

📖 READ Spy School:  https://amzn.to/4cUPQNi

📚 CHECK OUT Stuart Gibbs's other books: https://amzn.to/4rHIbp6

🎧 LISTEN to more episodes of A LITERAL JOURNEY: https://aliteraljourney.buzzsprout.com/

🎥 WATCH more episodes of A LITERAL JOURNEY: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRTQ34vyf-9NkrTcSH0KEwXPOhdVqZRVZ

Don’t forget to like, share, and subscribe to A LITERAL JOURNEY for more exclusive author interviews, book recommendations, and thoughtful conversations about the stories that shape us. 📖✨

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My name is Seth Adam Smith. I’m a husband, father, and author who believes in the power of stories to inspire people forward.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

There is this advice that gets thrown around a lot, which is the you know, write what you know. Uh, but you know, I mean, I think when people take that uh to heart, uh, you get a lot of college students writing stories about being college students or something like that. But but if you but if I were to say, like, write what fascinates you, that's a very different thing. And uh, you know, so I that's and that's what I write about, you know, animals and I write about spies and I write about uh you know uh the famous geniuses uh and and you know history, uh and uh I you know and you know that's uh like there's there's all these different uh worlds that I I really love. And um and so you know I I love doing research. I uh you know, I get inspired. I I uh I don't just you know, read up, I'll all track down any somebody says, Oh, I know this person and they work on this field, I'll be like, I'm calling that person, right? I'll I'll go visit uh places that fascinate me. Uh I'll I'll talk to experts, I'll go to museums and zoos and everything. And and so a lot of my stuff has been inspired by by visiting a museum or a zoo uh and seeing it.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

Today I'm interviewing Stuart Gibbs, and Stuart Gibbs is a prolific author. I mean, I knew a few titles because when I go to the scholastic book fairs with my kids, I see your name everywhere. But I did not realize it was as many as it is. I got through your catalog, and it's just it's overwhelming and it's amazing. So Stuart, thank you. Thank you for agreeing to be on the show.

SPEAKER_00 1:55

Thanks for having me here.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

So I I went and looked up your bio, and uh it is probably the most fun biography I've ever read on an author. So here it is. A few interesting things that Stuart Gibbs has done. Worked at a worked at a zoo, researched cabibaras, the world's largest rodents, climbed Mount Kilimanjaro, cage dived with great white sharks. I would never do that. Uh faced down a charging elephant. I mean, I could probably do that one. Uh that wasn't really a choice. That was like Yeah, you don't you don't pay for that experience. Uh swum with penguins in the Galapagos, ice climbed a glacier in Patagonia, visited the cockpit of the space shuttle Atlantis, helped rescue 16 children from drowning off the coast of Israel. We're gonna get to that one. Right right away. Right. Uh written a few movies that actually got made, uh Sea Spot Run, Replicate, Showdown. Uh now I also heard something about Anastasia. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_00 2:58

I I was I worked uh, yeah, um uh in animation a lot of the time, uh, you know, there's a lot of people involved, and and so I I wrote uh some of the dialogue for Anastasia.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

That was a great movie. We loved that one.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

So we'll have to ask that was really like where they said we need more lines for the bat, and you know, come in and write lines for Hank Azari to say, and and then he would you know say some of them and riff off other ones, and and uh yeah. So I wrote like some of the dialogue in that movie.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

Hank that he's Simpsons of a Simpsons fan, correct?

SPEAKER_00 3:31

He's in a lot of things, but yes, you would recognize him. Yeah, but he does the voice of oh my god, I forgot the bat's name, but uh but right it was Christopher Lloyd being being yeah, Bart talked about and and then Christopher Lloyd is as Russi Putin in that, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:44

That's amazing. That is ah okay, again, that was that was foundational. That was our childhood, you know, memory. That's thank you for doing that. Thank you for your service. Uh, and then of course, uh yeah, worked on a few animated movies, including Anastasia, Open Season Three, Mickey Donald Goofy, The Three Musketeers. I love that one as well. Um, he is currently at work on several more books, which we're gonna talk about today. Okay. Um, and the screenplay for the spy school, the the movie, is that correct?

SPEAKER_00 4:12

Uh, you know that maybe slightly um we uh spy school movie is not happening as a movie now, but uh there is a lot of progress towards it becoming a streaming television show. So uh because it's that's just the way that the world is working now. Uh not not so much uh so many movies released for family, but streaming television for family is the way to go.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

So well, uh depending. I mean, I I'll have you to either thank or blame when my kids get addicted to it. It'll happen. It'll happen. So um, so Stuart, again, thank you for agreeing to be on the show. And just give us a little bit of background on your own personal story and then what got you into storytelling.

SPEAKER_00 4:57

Uh yeah, well, I mean, I was one of those uh kids who uh I read everything I could get my hands on. Uh and I actually I don't really remember a time in my life where I was not trying to write uh stories. Uh and I will even uh as proof, I I this is something I did in in kindergarten. And my kindergarten teacher had the idea that I should write, I was I was still mastering cover design uh the day the dinosaurs came back, but uh but we we made this uh uh book and and was actually put in the school library back when there were were uh you know cards to check out stuff. So this is kindergarten. Uh and I I was trying, it took me a while to get something actually published, but I I uh I just had this love of storytelling. Uh I I uh grew up in in San Antonio, Texas, uh, then uh went uh went to Philadelphia for university. Uh and then uh I I really wanted to be an author, but but I I didn't uh I I was writing books and not getting them published. So I came out to Hollywood and uh found that I could uh I I was able to sell screenplays. Uh and uh so I I I worked in the movie business for for a while. And then uh uh when my uh my son was very young, and my daughter was my wife was pregnant, uh, I I uh was thinking maybe I could give writing books another shot. And uh I uh my uh an agent I reached out to propose the idea of doing middle grade, which I really hadn't thought about writing in that space, that time, even though I'd done plenty of children's movies. And um I thought, oh my gosh, I had all these ideas that would actually work really well for middle grade. My kids would be able to read my books a lot sooner than I thought. So I thought I I wrote belly up. I thought maybe I'll just do one book and see how that uh if I just do one, great, and I had such a wonderful time doing it. The world of publishing was so wonderful, everybody I met it was great, and I was like, I gotta do more of these. So uh yeah, I'm now uh if you count graphic novels, I'm now up to uh 42 books.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

Wow that that's that's astounding. I mean, that's incredible. That's a prolific career. Um what what book was it that really maybe a story or an author that really set things in motion for you? Where where was it that you had read and you were like, wow, this is incredible?

SPEAKER_00 7:22

I mean, I I know for a fact that the first book I ever read was The Cat in the Hat. Um and I I have a very seminal uh memory of actually because I would just pretend to read it and then one day kind of going like uh I think I just read that, uh, and like running to my mother. That's kind of like the first memory I have. Um, but then you know, I mean it was really like from the get-go. I just have all this, I like I really have like uh uh back in and those cabinets are just full of like stories that I was trying to write, like like at a really young age. Uh so uh, you know, I I like I said I read everything, but but the the you know the authors who really just inspired me were say Donald J. Sobel, the the uh Encyclopedia Brown series, um uh The Westing game by Alan Raskin. Uh, you know, those those were probably the ones that like made me go, like, oh man, mysteries are just you know, just so much fun to read. Uh, but then I really liked uh Roll Dahl and Shell Silverstein because they were so funny. Uh uh and uh you know, as I got older, there would be uh the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy series by uh by Douglas Adams, you know, the funniest book series ever written. Uh uh Michael Crichton, uh, who I learned uh you could combine science and adventure. Uh so uh he was made, and then there's just been this kind of litany of great uh mystery writers that I've just loved as well.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

So uh a lot of people talk about in Hollywood, it's it's really difficult to make it in Hollywood just because it's it's competitive by nature. I mean, and you just your talent, you you have to really work hard to get noticed, even if you're very talented. Um what sort of resistance were you meeting along the way as you were writing screenplays and trying to get seen and and work out there?

SPEAKER_00 9:08

I mean, you know, the the thing about uh writing in Hollywood is is it's it's like uh you know, for a move for a movie to like come together, there's there's uh uh you know thousands of different things that have to, you know, just happen at the right way at the right time. You really have to sort of catch lightning in a bottle. And so, you know, you could really like one of the first big movies uh I sold was uh really like on its way to becoming uh produced. It was like it we were casting, it we we had you know, production offices, we were we were like doing location scouting, and then it uh it just uh fell apart. It was basically it, it was it was actually a spoof. Uh it was uh this was like there were a lot of disaster movies coming out. It was a spoof of disaster movies in a sense, like in the line of airplane, but it was like the idea being that it was one guy who had every single disaster happen to him on the same day. So he was gonna have volcanoes and be on a ship that sank and and you know have uh you know uh escape uh dinosaurs and everything. And uh and one of the movie studios released a movie called Jane Austen's Mafia that I'm sure nobody remembers. Uh, and it was a spoof of Jane Austen movies and mafia movies, maybe or something like that, and it just tanked. And the studio was like, nobody wants to see spoofs anymore, and boom, and the whole thing just collapsed. And you're like, maybe people don't want to see bad spoofs, right? And and then later on they made plenty of spoofs, and everybody went to see, you know, so it it was like that kind of thing that like had nothing to do with anything that I was doing that anybody all these people working so hard on the movie were doing, and and that kind of thing can come along and derail a movie, and then and so some people you know the the pieces all fall into place, and and sometimes you're just like, My gosh, I uh you know, like how many movies can I write and not have them get made? Uh but the weird thing about uh Hollywood is that the writer gets paid whether or not the movie gets made. So you can have a pretty good career writing movies that nobody has ever seen or or scripts that have never gotten made. But after a while that can get kind of um frustrating, right? And so and so that was one of the magical things. I mean, when when I when I wrote Pelly Up, uh my publisher still likes to remind me of this. Like I I kind of finished like the final draft, and I'm like, okay, the book will come out in six months. And I was like, Yeah, I've heard this before. Like, you know, yeah, and when it when it all falls apart, just I'll I'll be okay. And they're like, no, no, no, the you wrote it, the book is going to come out. There's there's it's not it's not going to fall apart. And I was like, sure, whatever. And then and then you realize, oh no, like if if I if I'm writing a book under contract, that book is going to come out, which is a very different mindset than I'm writing something that has a you know one in a hundred chance of actually seeing the light of day.

SPEAKER_01 12:00

That's incredible. I mean, my wife's an actress, she's majored in it, and so I'm very familiar with how how fickle things can be, and then how you could put all of this production into something, and then the mood changes the mood either of what's in current events or what's currently exciting, and it just they'll just throw it, they'll just toss it away. And but I I can't imagine uh Jane Austen's mafia not being popular right now.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

Like maybe, yeah, maybe maybe maybe I don't know. It's it's out there, folks. You can all go and and uh and see. I I I don't I believe I I uh I don't think I actually saw it myself, so maybe I'm part of the problem there.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

But maybe I'm yeah, it wasn't yeah, we weren't the target audiences for that. Um well you know, that being said, it's something that I ask authors all the time is you know, when you're when you're working and writing and publishing, there's invariably you will encounter resistance, either internal or external, external. That's sort of part of the the journey, the hero's journey of a protagonist. You have to re encounter that. Um, you know, what kind of resistance were you encountering as you started your career in publishing? And how did you overcome that?

SPEAKER_00 13:11

Well, I mean, I'll say this. Like for me, I think the resistance was that I I had a long period of of submitting books. Uh I would, I would, you know, I would get agent. I had an agent when I was like 14, but I didn't get anything published. Yeah, I I kept writing things, I kept trying and trying and trying, you know, with no luck. Um, so uh, and then you know, I I had this sort of experience of the in the film business of of you know uh sort of being kind of a journeyman and and you know uh having a career, but but you know, struggling to have something made in like that I was really proud of. Uh so when sort of the pieces did finally fall into place, and and I I I you know sort of was like, oh, middle grade, let me try this, and uh wrote the first book, had really I I I would say like from that point on, uh it's actually been uh there hasn't been too much struggle. I I I think the people in publishing are are really wonderful. I've I've been lucky enough to have uh incredible team working with me uh pretty much the whole way. I've had the same uh cover designer, Lucy Ruth Cummins, who's just brilliant, uh working my covers from the get-go. Uh I've I've had uh different editors. Um I've never fired an editor, they've they some of them have moved on, but I but I've been able to work with an amazing group of uh great editors. Uh I I've had the same publisher, Justin Chanda, the whole way through. Uh and uh so uh and and I'll say this. Um uh the the uh the the the fellow authors, uh that's like the icing on the cake of this business, is is that uh there is not a jerk among them. It is just such a good group of people. And I and I and I think sometimes a lot of is the a lot of the quite a lot of the middle grade authors sort of it's it is like a second career for them. Uh they were doing something else and and and got into writing, and they're so happy to be in this career that like you know, they're not gonna make waves, they're gonna they're gonna just enjoy this and and be supportive of each other and and everything.

SPEAKER_01 15:22

So it's a really great community. Yeah, that's what you and I were talking about. That before the interview started, is Lisa Shirtlift was the was the author who introduced you and I. And like I was saying, I mean, she is without guiles, she's just a sweetheart, so kind. And it's it's indicative, it's uh it's common in that group. I've interviewed a lot of middle grade authors, and uh it was Ryan James Black. Uh he's written The Dark Times of Nimble Nottingham. He said, if you want to restore your faith in humanity, talk to middle grade authors, they're the best people on the planet.

SPEAKER_00 15:53

It yeah, I mean, I you know, there's two things. One is there, it's it really is just a great uh group. Yeah, I I was like the day I met Liesel, I also met uh at the same event, I met James Ponty and Nathan Hale and Polly Holyok, and and I'm still friendly with with uh uh yeah, them. And so uh uh it's great, but there is one sort of as like in the film business, there's kind of like only so many movies are gonna get made a year, or so many slots open uh as a writer on a TV show or something like that. And so um that it's even like I was friends with plenty of screenwriters, but sooner or later you're gonna end up in competition with one of your friends, maybe several of your friends. Uh, and which is a little it it's it's not maybe the best mental place to be in, right? Uh and but but in in publishing, uh it's really it's not like they say, Oh, we're only gonna publish this many books this year, right? Um, and so it's really like a rising tide lifts all ships, uh, that that we can all look out for each other. One of the things that we're almost always going to be asked if we're doing a school visit or event is, you know, who else should I read? And so you're like, oh, I got this list of other uh great authors that whose books you should read. So, you know, we we uh I mean like looking out for each other sort of baked into the whole uh job in the first place.

SPEAKER_01 17:18

So uh your your first book that was it you said belly up, was that the first one? And then when did you I mean, for some people just getting published is seeing success. Yeah, um, but when did you sort of see success in your own career as a writer?

SPEAKER_00 17:34

I it's um, you know, I I think for me it was it it's been a long, slow build. Uh so uh belly up was um it was backed by the publisher um somewhat. They uh but uh you know I wasn't like they weren't sending me out on on book tour or anything. It was kind of like they put it out there. We did a little uh like some promotion for it. Uh Barnes and Noble for whatever reason just loved it and decided they were gonna promote it pretty heavily. Uh so you know, I was thankful to them, uh, but also very thankful to you know all the independent bookstores as well who who promoted my books over the year. People discovered it and and said, okay, we're gonna we're gonna hand sell this. Um you know that my my biggest seller is spy school, uh, which um was actually I I done belly up. Uh I I did uh the last musketeer series for Harbor Collins, then I uh I just uh um then uh Simon Schuster you know asked me if I want to do something else. So I proposed uh spy school to them and and uh you know that even didn't you know just take off like a rocket out of the gate. It it built and built and built. So so it's kind of been like this this this build of you know going like like this over the years. Uh so I I don't know when I was like, oh there there wasn't like one moment where like suddenly it was like, oh my god, we just sold a million copies or whatever. It's it's it's been it's been a uh it's been an uphill climb, but but not a not a uh you know a nice gradual one, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

Well, that was I remember getting the email from Liesel. She's like, well, Stuart Gibbs would like to talk. And I said, the the spy school guy? And she goes, yes, the very same guy. And and I said, That's great, because my kids, you know, getting their attention span, getting them to remember any details really is difficult. They're all under the age of nine. How many?

SPEAKER_00 19:28

How many?

SPEAKER_01 19:29

I got five five kids. Five under nine.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

That's why I could only do the interview during this block of time. That's cool. Okay, all right. Um otherwise it'd be pandemonium. They were messing with my microphone when I was down here. So but um but they only know a few authors' names off the bat, and most of that has to do with the scholastic book fairs. And so when I had told them your name, they knew it. Uh they knew it right away. They said they said spy school. And so my son, I think well, they we had just missed the the past scholastic book fair, but he's gonna be picking up spy school here soon. And so could you give our our listeners, our viewers, a bit of background on what spy school is about and then what was the idea behind it?

SPEAKER_00 20:12

Yeah, uh, so spy school is really about a kid who gets recruited to the CIA's top secret academy of espionage. And uh, you know, he's thinking, like, oh, this is amazing, you know, I'm gonna be kind of uh turned into a like a junior James Bond, but uh discovers very quickly that it things don't really work out uh the way they do in the movies. And uh he discovers he may not have even really been brought in for the reasons they told him uh he was brought in for. Uh he's actually been brought in as bait uh to catch a mole in the uh in the spy school, and essentially gets recruited by the top student uh at the spy school to help her catch the mole uh for various reasons. But uh for him, it's basically like if he doesn't help catch this mole, he could either end up dead or kicked out of school, both of which would be uh bad for him.

SPEAKER_01 21:01

Uh death would be worse, but yeah. And theoretically, theoretically, yeah, yeah. And and what was the uh idea behind that series?

SPEAKER_00 21:09

So, like I said, I've been coming up with ideas for you know, I've been wanting to write for a long time. This is really an idea I had when I was about in sixth grade, and I uh I saw my first James Bond movie. Uh uh, so did all you know, a bunch of my friends saw it. We all kind of running around imagining themselves ourselves as James Bond. And uh I um I I wrote what we would now call fan fiction or a version of fan fiction. Um I didn't write a James Bond story, I wrote a Jimmy Bond story about James Bond's son. And uh in that story, uh he uh I I like I it was James Bond not not around a whole lot as a dad. You know, he's he's he's traveling around the learning evil. Uh so I thought, well, how does Jimmy learn how to be a spy? I thought, well, maybe he goes to this top secret spy school. And I I didn't finish that story at the time. I I uh you know, I got I got a writer's block. I didn't never finish, I never got to part with spy school, but I thought there was something to that idea, and I would really come back to that idea over and over again through the years, trying to figure out how to uh make that uh uh some kind. I mean, I I tried uh selling it as a movie, I tried selling it as a TV show, uh finally worked out as a book, and therefore maybe it will now work out as a TV show again. We will see.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

Well, you've seen a lot of success with that. I mean, there's been quite a few books. Do you plan on continuing to write, or do you feel like you've reached a note that you'd like to end on?

SPEAKER_00 22:37

I'm I'm I'm gonna continue that one. I get that I get a lot of uh uh messages from kids saying please don't end the spy school series anytime soon. I really love coming up with ideas for it, I love characters for it. So uh I feel like there's a couple more books in it for sure.

SPEAKER_01 22:53

Well, there's a lot of there's a lot of humor and adventure in it, and backtracking a little bit on adventure. I mean, your whole bio is just filled with adventure. You seem you seem to be a very adventurous person. And I did want to revisit that that story of you helping to rescue some some kids off the coast of Israel. What was that? What was that whole story?

SPEAKER_00 23:12

That was okay. So um when I was growing up, I was a I was a lifeguard. Uh that was that was my summer job, and uh, which was a fantastic summer job. And but I was a pool lifeguard, and um I uh in five years of lifeguarding, uh I I I never had to rescue anybody. It's not like I I didn't rescue so it's not like those people were drowning. I uh like five years of working in the pool, uh, never had to make a rescue ever. Um uh people were very well behaved on my watch. And um, but then I was I was in Israel, uh I was there with my my sister and uh and a guy she was dating and his brother. And um we were we were just uh swimming uh you know at the beach and uh there were uh some people were like started shouting out in the water, and uh there were there were actually two other American guys just happened to be there, and I I looked at them and said, like, are those people yelling to you? And they said, No, we thought they were yelling you, and I was like, Those people, okay, those people are in trouble. And uh the four of us went in to the water, and it was it was a whole family uh who uh apparently uh you know sort of uh teenagers to young kids uh who it seemed just had gone in the water not knowing how to swim, and the current had just moved them to a place where they uh several of them couldn't stand anymore. So uh and then this comes up actually a lot in lifeguard. Like a lot of the rescues are are people who've just you know that they're uh you know, it's just a kid who falls in the pool and you just grab them and yank them out of the pool, that sort of thing. It's it's uh so people just get in a spot and they panic. And uh so a lot of these people were really close to where they would have been okay. So we're really sort of making like a fireman's brigade and and pulling one, you know, grabbing them and and moving them from one person to the other and and getting them to safety. Uh a couple of them we really had to uh uh bring in. Uh so I I you know brought like two young children uh into shore and and and uh yeah, everybody survived a lot a lot, a lot of them would swallow a lot of water, so we uh you know helped uh uh get them some medical care and and such. But um yeah, so uh so right, it was really uh people who uh just got in a little bit over their heads and panicked, and uh we went in and saved them.

SPEAKER_01 25:37

Still, that's that's incredible. I mean, that's not something that a lot of people can include in their bio. That's that's incredible, that's wonderful. Well, uh, attached to your bio is maybe something that's not as exciting to other people, but it's interesting. Uh you've researched Kabibara's?

SPEAKER_00 25:52

Yes, yeah, yeah. So when I was in college, uh, and I even though I love writing, I really um I wasn't sure how anybody became a writer except uh Michael Crichton. Uh he he was the you know, he was the only one I knew. I knew Michael Crichton uh went to medical school, uh uh actually went through residency, was like writing books on the weekends. Uh and uh uh I you know I went to college thinking like, oh, okay, that's that's how you become an author. You you go to medical school, you know, you you do one thing, you write books on the side. Uh, I mean, there are other ways, like I knew like Tom Clancy had been like an he was an insurance salesman. There, there were there were stories out there about people who, you know, that they had a day job, they wrote books on the side, and they did this. And while I was in college, like I realized that uh, you know, there probably were other ways into the writing business, there are other avenues as a writer. So I was doing things in college, like I was actually writing for a newspaper. Uh, I wrote for my school newspaper, but I also wrote for a newspaper uh in Philadelphia, and uh I worked uh in in local television uh news. And so I I was I was exploring all these other things, but um at the same time, uh I told you I'd had this agent when I was 14, and that agent had given me a piece of advice where he'd said, uh he said, uh, look, you already know how to write. So maybe study something that's not writing, just study what interests you. And I and I've always uh I've I've always loved animals. Uh I uh you can see I've got some on the wall behind me. I I love uh I love traveling to see, I always love going out hiking, looking to see what kind of wildlife I can see. And so I ended up uh studying uh branch of biology, uh really field biology. And uh, you know, field biologist is like someone like the great Jane Goodall, who just uh recently died, uh, who you know, you go off into the field, you study animals out in the field, uh, and um that's where how we really know what we know about animals from field biologist observing making observations in the wild. And I thought that sounded like a pretty amazing job. Uh, and so uh I uh we uh there was this field biology class, and we would go out in the wilderness uh you know uh a couple uh days a week, but but we were supposed to uh practice our field biology, and the way we would do that was go to the zoo and uh study an animal. We pick an animal at the zoo to study it, and uh most people picked uh picked uh primates because primates are really fun to watch. Uh also the primate house was heated and uh so they could be indoors, and but the zoo had just gotten some caviaras, and I didn't know anything about caviaras. I I'd heard about them, I knew they were the world's largest rodent, and I thought, like, well, okay, you know, I'll study these. And um uh and it was it was cold temperatures, that's temperatures from uh from the rainforest of South America, not you know, not a cold weather animal. Uh, so I wasn't maybe studying the most optimal conditions, but um it did warm up eventually, and uh I'm I'm studying X animal and I'm I'm doing you know, I'm I'm making observations and and you know, some uh like you know, writing these sort of scientific papers. And at one point my my uh my professor comes to me and he's like, Um, I've been uh trying to find anything published, and he's like, I think you're the first person who speaks English to actually study the Capu Bear. And uh I was like, What's that mean? He's like, uh, you're kind of the you know, English speaking expert on the Cappy Bear right now. And things would happen, like I would go to the zoo and you know, the keepers would come up and say, Oh, the Capers were doing this the other day. And I said, Why'd they do that? And they were like, uh, we thought you would know, right? So uh so I I I'm not an expert anymore, but but for a long period of time, like it was this this gooey thing, like I I you know, I I knew three things that was three more things anybody else knew, so I got to be the expert, but nobody knew what they were until like suddenly maybe five years ago, and then suddenly like they just exploded in popularity, and now the whole I mean, uh like I I'll be I've been you know, like I was in China that this summer, and there were capy barra plushies everywhere, you know. Like, like uh there's there's now capy barra cafes in in Japan where you go and you know, there used to be like hedgehog cafes and stuff like that. Now you can you can have tea and have a capy barra sitting there next to you, which that's not their natural habitat, really. But um so they've just had this incredible explosion in popularity. Uh you know, like uh you know, I I do a lot of school visits. I used to say, Who here's heard of the Cappy Bear? Maybe maybe one rodent fanatic in the back and now they just scream, they're like, Oh, it's my favorite animal. You know, it's like I say, like, hey, you know, does anybody know who Taylor Swift is? That's that's what it's like.

SPEAKER_01 30:45

So just thinking about that one rodent fanatic, you know, like yeah, yeah, but then they like there's always one guy, you know, one kid who's like, Oh, I you know, I know what that is, you know, but then just looking around, like, oh, it's just me.

SPEAKER_00 30:57

Oh, yeah, but that was me, like for my whole like I was always like, Wait, nobody else knows what this is. I still find that as an adult, like you know, they're they're uh you know, uh there's like this, you know, like people are like, Oh my god, the word, you know, myrtle was Loris. What the heck is that? I'm like, nobody knows what a Loris is. It's an primate. Come on, guys, right?

SPEAKER_01 31:19

You uncultured swine. Um, so so then another series that you're really known for is the last musketeer series. Right, right. Yeah. Uh what's that series about? What's the premise? And what was the idea behind that as well?

SPEAKER_00 31:32

That one was um that's really about a kid who uh goes uh back in time and finds out he's actually the fourth musketeer. He's he's actually D'Artagnan. Uh and uh I was of all all my uh series, that is the that is the one that I didn't generate. Uh the the I the German idea was not mine. Uh that was uh Harper Collins, a guy named Dan Aaronhaft. Uh and Harper Collins was trying to do this new uh branch where they would uh uh generate ideas in-house. And so he came to me right after actually, Billy I hadn't even been published yet, but he'd read an early draft of it and asked me uh if I liked this idea. And uh I had just been to Paris, so uh I I I you know I I had been you know visiting all these sites that had existed back in the time of the Musketeers, and uh I I was like, Oh my gosh, do like an adventure story uh all through uh all that kind of you know, uh that that just sounded like a lot of fun, and then uh and then my wife was like, Oh, and then we can go like you know travel in the south of France and and do some more research. And I was like, sure, yeah, let's go do that. So um, yeah, so that sort of goes through uh uh you know France uh a couple hundred years ago, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

And then the the the good thing is is that you can use any of your trips and expenses as tax write-offs. Absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:54

Oh yeah, no, I mean I I I mean it's it's it's one of the great things about this business. There you you can learn so much more by going to a place is uh than even reading. I mean, obviously, reading is a wonderful way to learn about things, but but there have been so many times where visiting a place has has just like I've had an idea, and then you go there, and that visit just changes everything. And uh you you can you you learn things you never were gonna learn you wouldn't have learned otherwise. Uh you see things, you see the geography of the place, and I sort of and so uh yeah, to to be able to go to a place that I want to write a story is great, uh, or conversely to just be visiting a place and just be so inspired by that place to want to write a story. That has happened quite a lot as well.

SPEAKER_01 33:45

And your your first book was was belly up, and that's actually part of the the fun jungle series, correct? Yeah, yeah. And you've got an you've got a new book coming out uh in in March of this year. Yes, right.

SPEAKER_00 33:56

That is called right. That so that'll be the tenth book in that series. That's Ape Escape. And uh the Fun Jungle series is it is really based upon that. Uh I mean, that was inspired by you know the work I was doing, not with the cadmiber so much, but being at the zoo, because when I was doing that research, I I uh I was allowed into the zoo uh not just during normal viewing hours, like I was coming into the zoo uh early in the morning, staying after uh to keep my research going. And so I was seeing I started to befriend all the all the zoo keepers and such and and hear stories about what happened behind the scenes at the zoo. And I just thought like a zoo was this amazing setting for a story, and so I eventually had the idea about doing a mystery series that took place at a zoo. It's not a normal zoo, I didn't want to pick a real zoo uh and say this zoo had made some failure. So it's so it's kind of a it's like a theme park zoo. It's like uh it's like uh somebody combined Disney World with a zoo, and um so it's it uh so that had been uh the several mysteries had taken place at this place fun jungle, but I did eventually start to move the story. It's not always taking place at Fun Jungle because uh like how many mysteries could take place at the same theme park, really, right? Uh so uh so I so I've I've gone to places like the uh there's been uh one at Yellowstone, there's actually uh uh been one uh on uh like in Southern California because I wanted to uh actually deal with the story involving uh a dead whale, uh a whale that had died under suspicious circumstances. So I I needed to go to a place where there are actually whales. Uh and Ape Escape is one of those uh stories that was really inspired by uh by a trip I took. Um, I went with my kids to see the gorillas in Rwanda, and uh which is just you know, you get an hour with the gorillas, and it is one of the most unbelievable hours of your entire life. And uh and and so that's but then from there we went uh on Safari. So we went through Tanzania and uh so we went to the Serengeti. Uh we uh went uh uh we we actually went out with with uh uh a bushman, a bush like there's still a few people, the Had uh Hadiz tribe who uh are still like living a subsistence hunting and gathering, and you can go out with them on a on a hunt in the morning. Uh and so we we did that. We we we ended up in Zanzibar, and all these sorts of pieces uh all ended up influencing this uh the story, which is a story of uh that a uh an orphan gorilla is uh stolen from uh from uh an orphanage at in in Rwanda, and uh, and so that they know that this gorilla is probably gonna be trafficked uh to somebody who wants like a pet gorilla, and they're in a race to figure out who you know who took it, where are they going with it, and can they get there and stop them? Uh so it is uh my my I've had this you know young kid, Teddy Fitzroy, who's proven he's gonna like Encyclopedia Brown like in his ability to solve crimes, he's all crimes. This time he's actually with his parents, uh, because uh uh I've always wanted to have really strong nuclear families, and so I've always like liked having his parents be part of it, but they uh are are really with him on this journey in this book.

SPEAKER_01 37:27

And so a lot of your stories, particularly fun fun jungle. I mean, it's adventure, they're taking place in these other areas, and I've noticed in your biography, like you are having adventures in your own life as well. Are are those adventures prompted by what you're about to write, or are they or are the books prompted by the adventures in your own life?

SPEAKER_00 37:48

Um it's it's it's a little of both. Uh I um I mean certainly uh a lot of the stories have been prompted by just I I I there like I like what we uh referred to as character charismatic megafauna, which is uh very big animals, but lots of people find you know, that's elephants and giraffes and rhinos and and bears uh and whales, and and you know, I'm not alone in wanting to go see those animals. That's that's pretty you know, when when people go uh to Africa on safari, they talk about seeing uh the big five, which are uh the the Cape Buffalo and the rhino and the and the lion and the uh elephant and uh uh it's probably the hippo. Uh I don't even know. I there's there's so many amazing animals out there in the world, and you go see the big ones and then you see some amazing small ones too. And so that has driven me to go to Africa several times or or to go up to Alaska a lot. Uh I just love traveling around and seeing uh wildlife. And in going to these places, you do end up having adventures, and sometimes those adventures can uh then you know be uh taken as fodder for stories, but occasionally uh I will have an idea and um the newest uh spy school, uh, which will come out this fall. Uh I I really wanted to set it in China. Uh I had not been to China and uh about not even a year ago. Um, I realized I had a little gap of time. I went to my daughter and I said, Hey, after you uh after you finish uh school this year, you want to go to China for uh for a bit? And she was like, Yeah, let's go. We were like, okay. And we booked this trip to China, went, and this was one of those that I thought I I had ideas about where I wanted to set the story, but uh I it ended up I ended up seeing things over the course of those travels uh and that absolutely and I like um there is there is a a Shanghai tower, uh the tallest building in in China, and I was in Shanghai and and saw this building, uh went up in it. Uh actually they they they let you into certain places in the like as a tourist, you can go visit certain parts of the building that are just unbelievable. And I was suddenly like, oh my gosh, this there's an action sequence on this building. And I wouldn't have ever had that action sequence if I hadn't gone on that trip.

SPEAKER_01 40:09

Well, you you mentioned uh Alaska a couple of times there. I've I'm originally my family is originally from Alaska, I was born in Anchorage. Oh, okay. Lived there about 10 years. What what have any stories of yours taken place in Alaska?

SPEAKER_00 40:21

Yeah, yeah. Um uh so uh spy school uh goes north, uh actually takes place all through Alaska, uh a lot of different parts. So uh it's uh in um in Keenai Fjords and gets out to Kodiak Island, gets uh way out. Uh it doesn't even go to Anchorage, but it's sort of it's sort of uh you get a tour. And and uh at one point when I went and did research, that was inspired. That was actually I should kind of got a twofer there because I was inspired uh to to start writing it by a trip to Alaska uh with my father. And then um, but I I wanted to get way out, and so I took my kids back and we went out. Uh I found this little place out on the Alaska Peninsula, um, where there, you know, it was probably the they as far as I could tell, it was the one place you could see walruses actually on on the mainland, not have to like go out on a boat to see them. And and there are uh there are bears, there's some really big bears all over there. And uh so we we we ended up on a small plane flying out to this place. And I I'm it is the most remote I've ever been, uh, you know, the farthest from any kind of civilization ever. Uh and and and the crazy thing is I'm not I'm not even sure exactly where we were because we got there, and I said, You guys have like a map of where we are, and they said, No. And then and then I came back, I was like, okay, I'll I'll Google, you know, I'll look at it on Google Maps, and I it it's all like there's it actually there's uh maybe it's gotten a little better, but they're like the quality is not good enough. Of it's like a part of the world, they're like, ah, we don't really need to know what that looks like. So um, so it's kind of fuzzy, and I'm like, I can't find where I think I know where we were, but yeah. So I don't um yeah, but but I I don't know. I've I spend a little time in Anchorage, it's you know, it's town where there are moose wandering around downtown. It's it's pretty amazing.

SPEAKER_01 42:19

You know, that actually sounds like the premise to a different kind of book or a horror movie where like we don't know where we are, and no one will ever find you here.

SPEAKER_00 42:27

It was you know, it's it's it's interesting to be that far out, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:31

Yeah, I mean, uh, and that does sound like Alaskan. They're like, well, what does it matter? We're just kind of everyone's roughing it, and you don't need to know any of the specifics, you know. But that is that's funny. That is funny.

SPEAKER_00 42:41

Yeah, I mean, the funny thing, I I actually ended up then doing some school visits in southeast Alaska, which is wonderful. I mean, just such a uh great, beautiful place. And and my uh spy school goes north was just about to come out, and I I was telling my teachers, oh, they're gonna be so excited because this book takes place in Alaska, and they were like, Does it take place in Southeast Alaska? And I was like, Nope. And they're like, then they're not gonna carry. It's like it's a whole other country. And I was like, but you know, but everybody must go to visit. No, no, no. If we go, if we travel from here, we're gonna go to Disneyland. Like, yeah, we would never go visit another part of Alaska, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:19

I mean, our family, our family trips, our summer vacations were uh into Canada, into Alberta. Oh, okay. I mean, every summer we drive down into Alberta and Canada, just trying to get away from from at least get at least get a little lower in latitude where you feel a little bit more sunlight and warmth, and but Canada's not much better. That is that is that is quite dry.

SPEAKER_00 43:39

Yeah, but but then in the summers, which I I I mean, like I I've never been there in the winter, so uh I but but uh in the in the summer it's just it's unbelievable, right? That you're you're just you've got 24 hours of daylight and uh people playing golf at midnight, right?

SPEAKER_01 43:56

Yeah, we yeah, we were yeah, mowing our lawns at eleven o'clock at midnight, I remember. And it feels like it's six o'clock at night. I mean, it is just unreal. So so uh the other series I wanted to touch base on here is the just the the once upon a tent uh once upon a Tim series. Yeah. Um could you give our listeners a little bit of background on that?

SPEAKER_00 44:15

Yeah, Once Upon Tim is is written uh for uh you know slightly younger readers, uh but but to have appeal all the way through, you know, for older ones because I uh and uh yeah, it so that one's a little more heavily illustrated. Actually, my other series are not illustrated. Tim is illustrated. Tim is really the story of a peasant back in olden times who hates being a peasant because being a peasant was terrible. And uh there were no real job offers then. I mean, there were your options were peasant or knight, and and they would actually let you be a uh a knight when you were like 12 or something. Uh he he volunteers for the night brigade uh and ends up on all these uh ridiculous adventures. It's it's very you know, it's it's it's sort of uh goofing on on uh fairy tales and uh and mythology. You know, sometimes you're like uh you know, there's so many like humanity has just invented so many great ridiculous monsters. Like, do I actually have to bother making one? Oh, right. So they so they go, uh so there, you know, he's got a couple quests. Uh there's there's four books in the series so far. He you know, they they end up in a labyrinth, uh, they end up on on a on a ship, so it's kind of like a little Jason and Argonaut sort of journey. Uh there uh they they actually end up going to Atlantis, but it hasn't sunk yet, so it's the safest city in the world. Uh but things might go wrong over the course of that story. So yeah, they're they're uh they're encountering all sorts of uh uh vicious beasts, but really it turns out that the the far more dangerous than the the beasts are are a lot of the people.

SPEAKER_01 45:46

Yeah, that's yeah, that that's uh that's a Stephen King approach, is that yes monsters are really more, but I mean obviously this is not a Stephen King.

SPEAKER_00 45:55

It's uh it's uh yeah, yeah, no, it's it's doesn't get doesn't get that existential or dark. No, no.

SPEAKER_01 46:02

Um, and then you also have another series I I just remembered is the Charlie Thorne series. Give our listeners a background on that.

SPEAKER_00 46:08

Okay, so Charlie Thorne uh is the smartest person on earth, even though she is only 12, and uh she's got a very rebellious uh genius. Uh and uh it turns out that uh uh our government needs her because uh some of the greatest uh uh brilliant people from throughout history, uh like Einstein and Darwin and Isaac Newton and Cleopatra have have discovered things that they realize were too dangerous to trust humanity with. So they they hid them, they they've sort of hid them away and uh left some clues so that someday, some point, someone as smart as them could maybe track these things down and and handle them safely. And that is Charlie's job is is to sort of team up with uh but she's not she doesn't really want to do this, she's been really forced into it against her will. And uh, you know, there's of course always always really dangerous people also looking for these objects. So that is uh my sort of world uh uh my glow trotting adventure. There's there it's you know the books are are bouncing from exotic location to exotic location all over the world, as Charlie sort of uh solving these clues and racing against evil to save the day.

SPEAKER_01 47:20

There was another little segment I just wanted to uh to get a little bit more info on uh on your bio, which was that you had uh you were in a you were in a cage with great white sharks.

SPEAKER_00 47:30

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so um that uh that's one of my great uh uh parenting victories. That um That's not what I was expecting you to say. I know, I know. So so I I uh when my kids were young, um I okay, I love I love animals, I love nature documentaries, and um, you know, there's this great footage they shot for for the original uh BBC uh Earth of uh this spot in southern uh off South Africa, where it's the only place that the great white sharks will jump out of the water, and they they film for weeks so they could film them in slow motion, and it's this unbelievable footage, and you can you can you know find it pretty easily online. And my my son and daughter just they they would be like, let's just watch this sequence over and over and over. And um, so uh then turns out we were we were going to South Africa, we were uh meeting uh the rest of my family that we were getting in a day early, and I say to the kids, you know, we could go on tour, we could go see where the sharks jump out of the water, and they're like, This is great, okay. Yes, like we're dying to do and go see this. And my wife is like, uh, you guys go to I'm gonna go to the spa for the day, right? Like, like you guys go watch. And so shortly before we're supposed to go, like like weeks before, I get a call from South Africa, and they say, We just recognized that your daughter is younger than 10 years old. They go my son is down. My daughter was eight. And I go, Yeah, and they go, Yeah, she can't go out on the the shark boat. And I'm like, Oh my god, my kids can't go out, they're gonna be devastated. Uh, you know, is there anything else they can do? And they say, Oh, well, you can go on the shark cage boat. And I'm like, wait, they can't go on the boat where we're above and watching the sharks jump out of the water, but they can go on the boat where we get into the cage in the water with the sharks, and they're like, Yeah. So I go, Okay, you know, let's do that because I want my because I know my kids want to see the great white sharks, and this is the way to do it. And it's only like after I've said, okay, that I'm like, wait, did I just say I was gonna take my kids shark diving? Uh and uh so then I'm you know, I really like as we're getting closer, getting more and more nervous, like, oh man, this may be the worst thing I ever did as a dad. Um, but then we they picked us up early. You go out there, and I actually saw the the setup for the shark cage and everything, and I was like, oh man, these people know what they're doing. It's not like Jaws where they put them in a cage and lower them out in the middle of nowhere. It was actually very well designed up against and and and you know, you go out, and here's the thing the great whites don't care about the people, they they are not they are not interested in the people at all. They're they're hunting for uh seals and sea lines out there, uh, because you're out by where uh uh like a huge sea lion rookery. And um, so I told the kids, oh, and we were not we were we happened to be on a boat with uh a huge number of elementary school teachers who were also there to do this, and so I told the kids, like, look, you you can go in the shark, it's gonna be cold, right? You know, uh uh, but you can, you know, it's your choice. Uh and um, you know, but I didn't force them to do it. They were welcome to like stay up on the boat with all these teachers who were more than happy to, you know, be there with a bunch of kids and talking to them. But it was it was an unbelievable experience, and and um uh yeah, I I I felt uh completely safe. I would not get in the water without the cage, but uh but I I'm I'm sure you would probably be all right if you did it. Uh but uh yeah, I it was it was absolutely phenomenal.

SPEAKER_01 51:23

Yeah, that is that's my number one fear because of Jaws when I watched it as a kid. I will never I will never get the dark water. I can't do it. I cannot. So kudos.

SPEAKER_00 51:34

Kudos. I mean, I'll I'll say this. It actually the the way the boat was built, the viewing was actually better of the sharks above the water because when the sharks come close to the cage, and and they it wasn't like you needed scuba or anything. You you you could you would watch the you the cage was built so it was above water, and then when you saw the shark coming, you could lower yourself down and watch it. When the sharks come by, they they you know they really roil up the water, and so there's a lot of bubbles. So uh they they will come right by the cage, uh, and uh you can't actually stick your hand out and touch it as it goes by. Uh, but um uh I'm not saying you should do that, but it's possible. Uh and uh but you so you sometimes it's it's a little tough to see. Whereas when you're up on the boat, they have this viewing platform, so you can look down and just watch the sharks and just see them. And and so we are in this cage uh watching uh the sharks, and we've seen a couple sharks before, and then all of a sudden, this one shark comes by that is significantly larger than any shark we've seen, and and and it's bigger than the whole cage, and and we kind of pop up and go, um that was a that one was big, right? And they say, Oh, that's that's Maureen, yeah, yeah. She's uh she's 13 feet long, and so that was just a moment where you're like, Oh, wait, that is that is one giant uh predator there, right?

SPEAKER_01 52:58

13 feet. That's just astounding.

SPEAKER_00 53:01

I can't, yeah. Well, and and that's just you know, I mean, like if you think about it, like that is as close as you you if if you go on safari, they're not gonna I I that's like sometimes a lion will come lie down next to your car or something like that, but but there's not really a point where you you they don't go okay, pet the lions now, right? There's when you go off looking when you're in Alaska and there are bears around, you don't get close to the bears, right? But this is a situation where you can really have, I mean, like you know, you are right there, the predators right there, and and you you're right next to it.

SPEAKER_01 53:36

Yeah, you're very casual about this. Very casual, you know, the lion was laying down, that's fine, you know, and just bears. I mean, just you have had a very adventurous career, and I'm and you've had a very prolific career as well. Um, I think the the final question before I ask how people can find you and how they can support your work. Um, the final question I would ask you is basically I I get a lot of authors who watch or aspiring authors who watch this show. What is some advice that you would give to them as they're kind of uh maybe in the slog of it or just trying to to either get published or you know, get their writing out there?

SPEAKER_00 54:15

Um, yeah, you know, um I I mean there is this advice that gets thrown around a lot, which is the you know, write what you know. Uh, but you know, I mean, I think when people take that uh to heart, uh, you get a lot of college students writing stories about being college students or something like that. But but if I were to say, like, write what fascinates you, that's a very different thing. And uh, you know, so I that's and that's what I write about, you know, animals and I write about spies and I write about uh you know uh the famous geniuses uh and and and you know history. Uh and uh I you know and you know that's uh like there's there's all these different uh worlds that I I really love and um and so that you know I I love doing research. I uh you know I get inspired. I I uh I don't just you know, read up all I'll track down any somebody says, Oh, I know this person and they work on this field, I'll be like, I'm calling that person, right? I'll I'll go visit uh places that fascinate me. Uh I'll I'll talk to experts, I'll go to museums and zoos and everything. And and so a lot of my stuff has been inspired by by visiting a museum or a zoo uh and seeing it. And the Charlie Thorn was really inspired by a museum exhibit on Albert Einstein. So uh uh that you know, so if you if you if you you know writing in that world, like that often is something that's that's maybe hasn't been done before. And uh so that's that's really what uh uh I I think like uh you know my personal thing is like you know, you're we're all looking for like what's gonna make our work stand out. And uh, you know, if you're playing the same sandbox that that you know lots of other people have played in before you, then maybe your work isn't gonna stand out. But if you're writing about something that uh you know, there like when I started, there's you know, there's still not that many like spy books uh in middle grid. There's no other series that's a that's an animal-based mystery series, right? There's there's no other series about a young genius traveling around the world uh solving clues and and that sort of thing. So so if you can find that area that like nobody's done yet, um you know, sometimes you know people say, Oh, the conventional wisdom is no, everybody wants dragons now, everybody wants hockey romances or whatever, but but you know, there's always going to be room for something new, and that and and new is often what sort of breaks through.

SPEAKER_01 56:37

Well, and that's true. I mean, writing what interests you instead of writing what you know, writing what you know, like you said, a sandbox, it'll keep you you keep your life confined to that same area. But if you're writing what interests you, your life really expands in lots of directions. So it's certainly as with you. I mean, swimming with sharks and going to Alaska and doing some really really amazing things. Um, how can people find your work and support what you're doing um going forward?

SPEAKER_00 57:04

Sure. Uh I mean my books are, you know, if if any any any bookstore at this point should really have them. Uh my website. If they don't, you'll you'll be mad. Yeah, right. Yes, exactly. I mean, I'm always gonna say support your local independent bookstore if you can. There's really an amazing number of them. Uh, there's more uh coming, uh opening all the time. Um uh but uh but yeah, you can you can shop for my book any anywhere uh that books are sold. Uh I do a website which is stewartgibbs.com. Uh I have links to uh you know information about all my books. I've got I've got uh um a link to a uh actually uh uh a series I did uh called Mission Write. Uh it's a video series that does have more writing advice, really targeted towards uh elementary students and and uh you know classrooms can use it. There's actually class guides for that. Uh so uh I've I've got a bunch of resources on my website and uh and definitely uh links for all my books and where you can uh where you can buy them.