The Jason DeMars Podcast

Mysteries Revealed - ETMH Section 3 - Pre-Existence of the Son

February 23, 2024 Jason DeMars
🔒 Mysteries Revealed - ETMH Section 3 - Pre-Existence of the Son
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The Jason DeMars Podcast
Mysteries Revealed - ETMH Section 3 - Pre-Existence of the Son
Feb 23, 2024
Jason DeMars

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Embark on a theological quest to uncover the mysteries of the Son of God's pre-existence and the potent doctrine of the Logos, as we examine William Branham's profound teachings. We dissect the journey from the emergence of the Logos from the divine to the momentous incarnation of Jesus Christ, scrutinizing key scriptural passages that bolster the narrative of Jesus' divine sonship through the Holy Spirit's intervention in his conception. Our narrative takes you through historical interpretations of terms like 'begotten' and illustrates the magnitude of Jesus' birth, focusing on its place in time over the concept of eternal pre-existence. The conversation crescendos with reflections on the embodiment of the divine Logos in Jesus, starting at the Jordan River, parsing how these insights align with scriptural depictions of His life and mission.

As we traverse further into the enigma of the Son's role in scripture and creation, we illuminate the threads that portray Jesus as the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of His being, as portrayed in the Book of Hebrews. The discussion traverses the narrative of the Son as the Word, pre-dating His birth, and the significance of Colossians 1:15-17 which anchors the Son at the heart of creation's intent. Diving into Branham's perspectives, we examine the transition of God from spirit to flesh as embodied in Jesus, with Philippians 2:5-10 as our guide. The episode reaches its zenith with musings on the pre-existent glory of the Son, the theophanic instances pre-Bethlehem, and the divine indwelling that commenced at Jesus' baptism—a tapestry of thought culminating with a look at the enigmatic Melchizedek as a prefiguration of Christ.

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Subscriber-only episode

Send us a Text Message.

Embark on a theological quest to uncover the mysteries of the Son of God's pre-existence and the potent doctrine of the Logos, as we examine William Branham's profound teachings. We dissect the journey from the emergence of the Logos from the divine to the momentous incarnation of Jesus Christ, scrutinizing key scriptural passages that bolster the narrative of Jesus' divine sonship through the Holy Spirit's intervention in his conception. Our narrative takes you through historical interpretations of terms like 'begotten' and illustrates the magnitude of Jesus' birth, focusing on its place in time over the concept of eternal pre-existence. The conversation crescendos with reflections on the embodiment of the divine Logos in Jesus, starting at the Jordan River, parsing how these insights align with scriptural depictions of His life and mission.

As we traverse further into the enigma of the Son's role in scripture and creation, we illuminate the threads that portray Jesus as the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of His being, as portrayed in the Book of Hebrews. The discussion traverses the narrative of the Son as the Word, pre-dating His birth, and the significance of Colossians 1:15-17 which anchors the Son at the heart of creation's intent. Diving into Branham's perspectives, we examine the transition of God from spirit to flesh as embodied in Jesus, with Philippians 2:5-10 as our guide. The episode reaches its zenith with musings on the pre-existent glory of the Son, the theophanic instances pre-Bethlehem, and the divine indwelling that commenced at Jesus' baptism—a tapestry of thought culminating with a look at the enigmatic Melchizedek as a prefiguration of Christ.

Speaker 1:

Pre-existence of the Son of God. The doctrine of the Logos is key in properly understanding the Godhead. Historically, when it was twisted from its original revelation, the church bishops made a second person of the Godhead. When properly understood, the oneness of God is maintained and the Lord Jesus Christ is rightly understood as the Son of God. The Arian or Jehovah's Witness viewpoint is that the Son of God pre-existed his human birth on earth as an angel or an agent of creation and that he was less than God himself, that is, that the Logos was less than God and that the Logos was the Son of God. Then that Son of God changed forms from being the pre-incarnate state into the incarnation. There are several points to consider regarding this viewpoint. The Logos of John 1.1 and 1 John 1.1 and 2 are both referred to as God. In the case of 1 John 1.1 and 2, the Logos of life was with the Father. If we take that terminology and combine it, we see that the Word was with the Father and the Word was the Father. The Logos is nothing less than God himself having brought forth a portion of himself out of his own being in order to become visible to his creation, the same Logos that came in the form of Melchizedek in the Pillar of Fire, came down at the River Jordan and entered into the Lord Jesus Christ. And that same Logos that once anointed one man now anoints a many-membered bride. This is the clear and precise teaching of Brother Branham at the end of his ministry, when his revelation was fully developed, as Brother Branham said. But since the opening of those seven seals of them angels just behind the mountain yonder, this has become a new book. I want to give a brief description of his development so that it can be clearly understood.

Speaker 1:

1.1950. Who is God? In 1953, q&a on Genesis. The Logos that went out of God was the Son of God. Now you've got two. Now Let us make man his Father and Son.

Speaker 1:

2.1957, hebrews, chapter 1 and 4. Out of God went the Logos, or the Theophany, which was the form of a man called the Son of God, prefigured. It was the only visible form the Spirit had. 3.1959, a SuperSign. God called the angels together and he said Let us. 4.1964, q&a. Voice of the sign. The pillar of fire, the Logos, god, the Father, which led the children of Israel, came down in the form of a dove and lit upon Jesus. The Logos was in and upon Jesus, 1964 Q&A. Above the Lamb will be the Father, which is the Logos, god, the Great Light.

Speaker 1:

I do not believe these are contradictory thoughts, but a revelation becoming clearer and clearer. The connecting thought that he gives is in 1957, where he states that the Logos was in the form of a man called the Son of God, prefigured. To prefigure something means to show it is before it exists. We certainly know that the life of the Son of God and every Son of God is in God for eternity. Because we understand that Jesus did not bypass his theophany. We know that it was the same life of the Son of God that came forth and was in the Logos and then later, in the fullness of time, it came forth from the Logos and was born in Bethlehem. Then that Logos came upon him and dwelt in him at the Jordan River.

Speaker 1:

Let's look at the biblical message and historical proof that Jesus came into existence as a distinct human being at his birth in Bethlehem. Scriptural references Luke 1.34 and 35. Then said Mary unto the angel how shall this be seeing? I know not a man. And the angel answered and said unto her the Holy Ghost shall come upon thee and the power of the highest shall overshadow thee. Therefore, also, that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Speaker 1:

Let us look closely at the wording of the Angel of the Lord In answer to the question of Mary. He states that the Holy Ghost shall come upon you to bring forth this baby. Then he says this Therefore, he shall be called the Son of God. Therefore means for this cause or because of this fact, because of the fact that the Holy Ghost will overshadow you, he shall be called the Son of God. It is not because of some pre-incarnate state that he is the Son of God. It is not because he existed as the eternal second person of the Trinity, or even because he existed before his birth in heaven, but because the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary. Literally, we can say that the reason he is the Son of God is because the Holy Spirit created a body and put a life inside of that little body, in the womb of Mary. This is the basis of his sonship, matthew 1.18.

Speaker 1:

Now, the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise when, as his mother, mary was espoused to Joseph before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. The word birth in this verse comes from the Greek word Genesis. The birth or the beginning of Jesus Christ was in this way Mary was found with child of the Holy Ghost. There is nothing about the birth of Jesus in heaven before creation. Psalm 2.7 I will declare the decree the Lord hath said unto me Thou art my Son. This day have I begotten thee. In this verse we see that the birth of the Son is not an eternity or before creation, but was on a specific day in time. I have begotten you on this day. Paul applies this both to the birth of Jesus and his resurrection. Read Acts 1333. Galatians 4.4.

Speaker 1:

But when the fullness of the time was come, god sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law. We see that the Son was made of a woman. The word made is gynomai in the Greek and it means to cause, to be generate, that is, reflexively to become, come into being. So the Son came into being or came into existence through a woman. And again the apostle writes that he came into existence under the law. Some might argue that, yes, it says he came into existence through a woman and under the law. But it says he sent forth his Son. So it shows a previous existence. One part of the verse cannot destroy another part of the verse. Only a preconceived notion would enter into such speculation. He came into existence through a woman and under the law. It was the fullness of time that he was sent forth. The word sent forth means to be dispatched or sent on a mission. This happened when he was anointed at the Jordan River and started his ministry to accomplish the work of redemption. The phrase made of a woman, made under the law, is a parenthesis or a descriptive portion of the verse. The thought is this when the fullness of time was come, god sent forth his son to redeem them that were under the law that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Speaker 1:

1. Jesus is the Son of God because the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary. 2. The birth of Jesus Christ was when Mary was found with child of the Holy Spirit. 3. The Son was begotten on a specific day in time. 4. The Son came into existence through a woman and under the law. What Brother Branham said. Now let us examine several thoughts from Brother Branham that can perhaps shed more light upon the subject. I realize there are more references that we can look at, but these are a fair representative of the quotes we can find upon the subject the Holy Blood that was created by God, the Blood, the Life, the Creation of God. Jesus was the beginning of the Creation of God. Oh, you see it, god made in creation. He was Spirit. The Bible said he is the beginning of the Creation of God. How did he begin? In the wombs of a woman?

Speaker 1:

When Jesus was manifested in the Old Testament as we believe it now, you preachers out there, you can argue with it, do whatever you want to, but I am talking from my what I think. See, when Jesus was manifested in the Old Testament in theophany, in the person of Melchizedek not a priesthood, but the person, the man, see, for this man had yet not been born, but he was in theophany. So he had no father, no mother. He was God himself. He was manifested in the form of a man called King of Salem, which is King of Peace and King of Righteousness. See, he was Melchizedek. He had neither father nor mother, beginning of days or ending of life. See, it was Jesus in theophany, in the form of a man. Could you go that? All right?

Speaker 1:

Now, if you'll notice, as we read the next verse, see first being, by interpretation, king of Righteousness. That's not where I want to do the third verse, nor end of life, but made like unto the Son of God. Now, he was not the Son of God, for if he was the Son, he had a beginning, and this man had no beginning. If he was the Son, he had to have both father and mother, and this man had neither father nor mother. But he was made like unto the Son of God, a bideth, a priest, continually. One Jesus had his beginning in the womb of a virgin. Two Jesus had not been born yet, but he was manifested in theophany form in Melchizedek. Three Melchizedek was not the Son of God because he had no beginning and Jesus had a beginning. All right, let us put this picture together. Melchizedek was not the Son of God because he had no beginning and Jesus did. Yet Jesus was manifested in Melchizedek. This is why the scripture says that Melchizedek was made like unto the Son of God. Melchizedek actually manifested what the Son of God would be in the future a priest-king. Even further than that, it was the very theophany of Jesus that was manifested as Melchizedek, even though Jesus had not been born yet.

Speaker 1:

It is important to take the whole picture that is being painted here by the scriptures and Brother Branham in order to see the entire reality. We cannot take one quote and make it fight another quote. The whole picture reveals the truth of the matter. Looking at history, let us bring some historical Jewish perspective to this issue. It demonstrates the thought world that was in existence at the time of the Apostles' writings. The apostles were immersed in this thought world. Their understanding and teaching about the origins of the Messiah is in line with what was taught by the rabbis of their day. They were Jews and they thought like Jews. Their thought paradigm was Jewish and it was immersed in the Bible. They had two things in view God is one and he calls those things that do not exist as though they do. They had no knowledge of a three-person God, but a simple, undivided unity. God's thoughts are real and they are infused with life even before they come into existence in time and space. Pesicter, rabbi 152b.

Speaker 1:

The belief was general that the sending of the Messiah was part of the Creator's plan at the inception of the universe. Seven things were created before the world was created Torah, repentance, the Garden of Eden, ie, paradise, gehenom, the throne of glory, the temple and the name of the Messiah. In a later work there is the observation from the beginning of the creation of the world. King Messiah was born, for he entered the mind of God before even the world was created. This was their point of view towards pre-existence and I believe what Paul and John had hidden in their hearts as they wrote he that came after me was preferred before me, for he was before me and he is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature, for by Him were all things created. Writing under inspiration in the Gospel and Epistles, they understood Jesus was born before time when he entered the mind plan of God. Messiah was born in the mind of God before the creation of the world and he was God's perfect man. All things were made by this perfect man, who was still the thought in the mind of the Creator. This Jewish understanding was lost and thus ensued the Greek philosophical trinity of persons. The Greeks understood these scriptures in terms of a pre-existent second divine person, whereas the apostles that wrote the words understood they were referring to the pre-eminent thought and purpose of God, the Messiah. Paul said that God calls those things that are not as though they were. Another rendering of the verses calls the things which do not exist as existing. God's thoughts are real and they have life in them, even if they have not been manifested or brought to pass yet. Thus, all things were made by God through Messiah, who was born in the mind plan of God before creation. It is not a contradiction to say that Messiah created all things when, in fact, at the creation of the world, he had not yet been born. He was merely born in the plan or mind of God before the creation of the world.

Speaker 1:

Some may say that Jesus is the Word of John. 1.1. Brother Branham said that if you make the Word a separate person from God, you make him one out of three. Christ revealed in his own Word. I want to take a closer look at this From the Encyclopedia Britannica. Word in the Greek is Word, reason, plan. In Greek philosophy and theology, word is the divine reason that orders the cosmos and gives it form and meaning. Logos can literally mean the divine plan. We could render John 1.1.3.

Speaker 1:

14. In the beginning was the Divine Plan and the Divine Plan was with God and the Divine Plan was God. The same was in the beginning with God. 15. In it was life and the life was the light of men. The Divine Plan became flesh and dwelt among us and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. 16. The great Divine Plan prior to the incarnation was with God and was God Himself. 17. God's revelation is God and you cannot separate God from His self-revelation and plan. 18. God's plan reveals Him and His nature and invisible attributes. This Divine Plan became flesh, that is, when the Son was born, brought into existence. The Plan was made flesh. All the prophecies concerning Messiah and what God planned to do through the Messiah became flesh. The prophecies literally took on flesh. This is not a second pre-existent person, but rather the Divine Plan or prophecies becoming flesh.

Speaker 1:

We read in Hebrews 1, 2, and 3, that the Son is the brightness of the Father's glory, the exact imprint of His nature, and that God planned the ages in the Son. We must understand this is the entire concept of Scripture. The Son had a beginning in the womb of a virgin, but he was the Word that went forth at the beginning. The expression of God was the Son who was not yet born. In Colossians 1, 15 to 17, we read something very similar the Son is the reason and purpose of creation. God was going to express Himself through the Son and then through the Bride, and then bring it all back together, restored and eaten.

Speaker 1:

Brother Branham uses Philippians 2, 5 through 10, to show that God changed His mask from spirit to flesh. In John 17.5, jesus prayed for the glory he had before the world, and in John 17.22, he states that the glory that was given to Jesus is given to believers. Jesus Christ was foreordained before the foundation of the world, and so was the Bride. The Bride was chosen in the Groom. They were one in the mind of God. The same Word that expresses the Groom expresses the Bride. Conclusion we see in this teaching the clear development of thought that Brother Branham had. At the end we see that the Son did not pre-exist His birth in Bethlehem, but rather he was prefigured in Melchizedek and His life was in fact there, expressed in that theophany, that life that was in that theophany became a man and that pillar of fire came down to indwell Him at His baptism.

Pre-Existence of the Son of God
Son's Role in Scripture and Creation