Losing a Parent to Brain Cancer with Camilla Ball

You can also watch this video interview on our YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD-0Snw5qbk&t=67s)
I've known Camilla Ball since she was 14 years old. Her mom, Valéria, died of brain cancer when Camilla was in college. In our conversation, Camilla shares a very honest, unflinching look at that time, at herself, and at how much she's learned from the experience.

Here's a link to the article she references about rings and boundaries when supporting someone with cancer: https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-xpm-2013-apr-07-la-oe-0407-silk-ring-theory-20130407-story.html

*** You can also listen to this episode -- and many others -- on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and Google Podcasts. ***

NOTE: I am not a medical professional. Everyone on the "Life, Cancer, Etc." podcast is sharing their own experiences, not giving medical advice.

All content © 2022 Heidi Bragg and Life, Cancer, Etc. All rights reserved.

Keywords: losing a parent, death of a parent from cancer, parent with brain cancer

You can also find some episodes on our YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/LifeCancerEtc

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:01

I'm Heidi Bragg. I'm a three-time cancer survivor who's also lost a lot of loved ones to this disease. My goal is to connect you with stories and resources that will improve your life so that you can feel happier, more resilient, and less stressed, especially when you're going through hard times. Join me as we discuss life, cancer, etc. Music I'm really excited to have Camila Ball here with me. I have known Camila, we just figured out since she was 14 when I started working at the company that her parents own and they're dear friends, Jeff and Valeria Ball. And it just, we'll get into the story in a minute, but those people have a very, very sweet place in my heart. They're just good people. I just love them dearly. And we'll get into the rest of the story at the end. And it's so neat to see your dad so happy now. It's amazing. I just love Barb. Okay, so why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself? Sure. So I was born and raised in this small town in Southern Oregon where we met Heidi and where the rest of my family still is. But for college, I wanted to see a different part of the country. My mother immigrated from Brazil and I wasn't quite ready to go abroad, but I definitely wanted to experience a different part of the country. So I applied to all schools out outside of Oregon, and I ended up at the University of Tulsa, where I still am. I just calculated it's been, I've been here now for eight years. Seriously? I can't believe it's been that long. I know. It's crazy to me, too. I was like, wow, it's been almost a decade of me here, but hopefully not very much longer. Well, and I remember how, I don't know if irritated is not the right word, because Valeria was very... is a very Brazilian mama, like hold her kids close, very family, so important, all that stuff. And when you applied to everywhere outside Oregon, she was like, huh? Yeah. Yeah. She was happy. Yes, absolutely. You know, it's so funny. I was just, um, talking to not to dive in so deeply right now, but I was just talking to my therapist about, um, my with my mother when I was a teenager and how it was just really tumultuous. I think as it is with girls a lot of time and their mothers. Yeah. And he was telling me, he was like, you know, I have this theory that like, Teenagers have to be kind of terrible or else their parents will never let them go. And I think that was kind of the case. And I mean, granted, my mother would have not let me go regardless, but I can't say it hurt at the time. Yeah. And I think it's part of that process of a child individuating from their parents, right? Exactly. So part of that process means there's going to be conflict. And if there wasn't conflict, like your therapist said, you'd stay forever. You'd want to stay forever or they'd want you to stay forever, right? Yes, definitely. If you want your kids to grow, they have to move on. And as a parent from the mom's side, it's super hard. It's super hard to let them go. I don't even think I brought tissues over here. This is a glasses wiping cloth. We will use this. It's super hard to let your kids go, but it's like, someone said, Oh, that's hard to let him go. I'm like, yeah, but what do I want him doing? You know, sleeping on my couch and playing video games for the rest of their lives? No. Yeah. So it's, it's part of that next step. Okay. So you got to Tulsa. Yes. And then, um, yeah. So, um, I finished my degree in, um, three and a half years because, um, I don't know if we want to get into it right away, whatever you want to get into. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Great. Um, so my mother was diagnosed, um, with brain cancer right after my first semester. I was home for Christmas and that's when everything happened. And so I took that second semester off of my freshman year. And luckily I had enough credits going into college that it didn't affect my graduation. Not that that is even a big deal. Now that I'm like a grown adult, I'm like, I could have been in college for six years. It wouldn't really. But at the time though, that's a huge factor. It was so important to me. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and so I took that second semester off and then I came back the following semester, um, because she seemed to be recovering or at least it seemed the outlook seemed better at that time. Um, and I finished my schooling, you know, I finished for the next three years. Unfortunately, um, she got re-diagnosed. There was, um, a lot of other diagnoses that happened during my sophomore year. I actually got back to school for my sophomore year. And I was there like the first week my dad called me and said, she's sick again. So it was like right when I got back and was kind of like I was setting up my room in my sorority house and like getting ready for the school year. And then I got this news and I was like, oh, dang. And so that happened. that was really difficult. Um, but yeah, so I finished my, my last three years. Unfortunately, my mother was not there for my graduation. Um, but yeah, I learned so much through that process and yeah, we can get into it. But I graduated in 2018 and I'm still in Tulsa. I met a really wonderful boy here. So he's been an excellent partner with me in my life here and we're starting to get ready to see another part of the country, hopefully soon. Awesome. Okay, so let's start. I guess let's go back. to the beginning when your mom was diagnosed. Actually, I want to go back a little before that. Sure. Okay. So when your grandma was diagnosed, what year was that? Do you remember? No, I think it was like 2012. I was in high school. Oh, that's right. Okay. It was like maybe 2012, 2013. Towards the end of my high school, I think I would have been, it was my junior year. So yeah. Okay. So you're, and, um, with Yada, it was, uh, was it ovarian cancer first or do we know? I think it, I'm not, I think it was some stomach colon, something like that. Yeah. I'm not sure it was ovarian first. Okay. So I, when I got diagnosed with the first cancer, which was colon cancer and I'd had my complete colon out and I had an ileostomy and all this stuff, Valeria, Camila's mom, um, was in brazil taking care of her mother her mother passed she took care of the stuff there with her sister simone and then she went home for a week for thanksgiving with you guys and you were still i think you were a sophomore junior i don't remember what you were somewhere in there yeah and then she came to take care of me for a week after surgery because my mom was with my sister my parents were with my sister who just had a baby mm-hmm And it was great because Valeria, her mother Yara had a colostomy. So she understood about all the bags and all this stuff. Cause I had to have one daily ostomy for three months. And, um, you know, like she just, she already loved my kids. She was there making meals, taking care of me, helping me get used to having my insides on my outsides for these three months. She was just wonderful. I mean, She was like a force of nature. Yes. I helped write her obituary. Like I kind of get some stuff and then your mom, your dad and your grandma fixed up afterward. But one of the phrases that I put in there was like, she was like a force of nature. And she was, I said, she was a force of nature in a petite size package. Cause I'm not short. She was not tall. And so it was just, we, we worked together for, I don't know, four or five years. I mean, until the time she died. And, uh, and she was just this very, this very strong, kind giving family comes first kind of person. So it meant a lot to me that after the loss of her mother and after just going home to see you guys for Thanksgiving, she'd been in Brazil for a month or two at that point. Right. And this was one of numerous times she'd gone down to, um, that she was willing to come and help us. That was just so cool. You know, gingerbread things with the kids and, Trying to keep their spirits up. It's just who she is. Yeah. And not only the passionate care that she gave to others, but she also, she's such a creative person that she wove that in every area of her life. So that doesn't surprise me at all that she was doing activities with your kid. The woman loved an activity like no one you've ever met. She loved a craft, loved an activity. So that makes a lot of sense. And it just... you know, it brings another, just a layer of like care when you're being, when you were wrapped in her, you know? Well, and her trying to, um, to find the beauty in things, even when things were really, really hard. Oh yeah. I love that. Okay. So, um, you're home for the semester. You go back to school. Jeff calls and says she's sick again. And what had happened at that point? Because she'd already had the first brain surgery. So I think an important part of the story actually is the beginning and the diagnosis. Because a little bit of backstory on my mother is that she was a professional dancer. She majored in physical education. And then she was a volunteer PE teacher at my elementary school for years. many many years so all that to say she was an extremely extremely active person and super healthy like she was very careful about what she ate Yes, very, like everything in our house had a little neon organic sticker on it. And she would drive hours to the next town to be able to have access to better quality groceries. And she, I mean, she never used a microwave. Yes, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Everything was very healthy. I cannot remember a single time. That is so true. Yeah, couldn't, ever, ever. And if she did watch TV, she'd play her Brazilian novellas. She got the Brazilian channel to be able to watch her Brazilian soap operas. But she would have that play and be doing at least three other things at the same time. She'd be cooking dinner, Skyping her family, and then checking in on me and my brother to make sure we were doing our homework. It was so many things at the same time. So she was... just a picture of health. And it was something that as a teenage girl, it was a really big part of my life because I was, you know, transforming into womanhood and seeing this role model of my mother who was extremely active. She was absolutely gorgeous. And so that was a really big factor. And so when she got sick in December of um, of, uh, let's see, it would have been 2014, I think. Yeah. Um, she, um, it was really strange for me because she was the classic mother where it's like, she would have a cold or the flu and still live her whole life and be taking care of us. We always would make fun of my dad for having, you know, the dad cold. Yes. Yeah. So seeing my mom in bed sick was really strange. It felt really serious. And, um, even though they would go to the doctor and they, they told her she had a sinus infection. This is crazy to me because I, I've seen my mom all kinds of sick and she's never behaved like this ever. Right. Never been, you know, stuck to her bed the whole time. And so eventually my, my dad brought her to the hospital. I think it was like the third time and was like, you need to do a scan on my wife because this is not her. And he brought her in on the wheelchair and, um, he, she was like almost incoherent and the nurses were like, like almost complaining to my father being saying like, is she usually like this? Like, why is she not being helpful? And, you know, I always want to give people the benefit of the doubt. So I don't blame the nurses at all. I'm sure, you know, based on their experience, that was how they were behaving that situation. It's, it's not something that I want to criticize the medical team, but. And at this hospital, they do get a lot of people with addiction issues that are not acting well. Absolutely. Especially in our community, in our little hospital that we have. Absolutely. And so my father was like, no, you know, this is not her at all. Please like do a scan, take this seriously. And so they did and they found two masses in her brain. And, you know, we had the worst thing. moment I think that any kid can imagine is when the doctor says, come, come to the special room. And, um, for anyone that has not experienced that, you know, they don't deliver that news in front of the patient. They don't deliver the news in the waiting room. They have a special room in the hospital where you sit down and the doctor comes in and. They should call it the fall apart room. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, it was, yeah. And they told us, um, And I just had a feeling because we had been there for so long and no one was really telling us what was going on. Were you both there? Yeah, I was with my little brother, yes, who is three years younger than me. And the doctor came in and just told us, you know, your mother has brain cancer. And That in itself, of course, was a really... My heart dropped. Everything, my world stopped. My first thought was, okay, we have to call my family in Brazil. I have to figure out how to tell them what's going on in my Portuguese that is not 100% fluent. So that was... But you were the best one here with Portuguese. I was the only one. Yeah, out of the rest of my family, I was the only one. And so... I remember, you know, calling, calling my aunt and I don't remember a lot of kind of the conversations or anything. I think that's pretty normal, but we pretty, they immediately transported her to, um, a larger hospital in Portland. And I remember driving behind with my little brother in my car, you know, I'm like, what, how old was I? I would have been like 18, 17 maybe, or yeah, 18. Um, and following the ambulance and trying to get there. And then we get there and the doctor there is like, I'm so sorry. They should not have told you that she has brain cancer. We actually don't know yet. So it was a huge, it was like up and down. And I had no history on this. I not really known anyone really close that had ever had cancer other than my grandmother, but she was so far away. Wasn't really involved in that process. So, Yeah. And then there was a series of surgeries. She had some. And from that moment, and the reason why I wanted to tell this is because of that process, there had been so much swelling in her brain that she, from that time on, she was just different. And that was the most difficult part, I think, for me, because my mom was never really the same after that. And... So I stay text all the time. Yes. Yeah. And it didn't always make sense. No. And it was, you know, now looking back on it, of course she was like creating that connection. That was the only thing she cared about in her life ever. And so when she got sick and, you know, with the brain damage, that was the through line. And that was what, like you said, it was that connection with all these people she loved that she'd poured so much of herself into. Yes. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. So it was, it was really difficult and, and not only had her personality changed, but with treatment there was a lot of swelling. So she looked really different too. When she was on steroids, that was really hard. It's really, I think it's, just so much for kids, especially, you know, like I had this picture of my mother's face that I had been looking, well, now down at that I was taller than her, but I'd been looking up at for most of my life. And for that face to be different was, was difficult as well. I still remember now, like the feeling of her hands, because that never really changed. And that was, for some reason, that's a memory for me that like will never go away is like the feeling of her hands. Yeah. Yeah. So are you okay talking about the week she died? Absolutely. Yeah. And I want to tell you ahead of time, I talked to your dad and I knew she was fading fast and I knew Simone was here and everything. And then so I talked to my direct boss, Angela, and I just said, look, we're doing all in, in like a month and I don't think she's going to make it. So how about, can I just, can we do it early? Yeah. Cause I, I, I want to be there. Yeah. And she said, absolutely. So we did our, our work all in and like literally, sorry, literally think it ended up being that week. So, sorry. Can you go from now? No, absolutely. I mean, I'll start. And I just, I, I want to say this because I am not a, a big crier and I don't want, I'm a big crier. Yeah, no. And I, I never want my message to be like, I don't want to say like not taken serious or like not really just because I, I don't have as much emotion. That's something that I'm like, you know, working through with my therapist and it was a, denial was a huge effect of this, this time in my life. And so it, it is the most horrific, tragic thing that has ever happened to me. But yeah, Sometimes it's hard to get there emotionally. No, no, no. I just want to say that. But you've always been that. As a kid, you've been like that. This is not something new. No judgment or anything here. It's just it makes me cry. And I don't know if you know, but my sister died of brain cancer like 30 years ago. So when your mom got brain cancer, everybody I know who had ever gotten brain cancer did not make it. And so that was always on the table. And I think that's part of why I'm interested to hear your experience with this. Absolutely. Well, I mean, I didn't even really think she was that sick. That sounds awful. But even through all the treatment, through how different she looked and how different she was acting, I was like, my mom is the healthiest person I've ever met. This is not going to last. She's going to get through this. It just didn't really... sink in for me. And even like, well, she bounced back so much after that first surgery too, that it was like, wow. I mean, she was, she woke up from surgery being able to still speak in fluent in English and Portuguese and doctors were like, Oh my goodness. Like, look at all, look at this. So, yeah. So, um, my dad called me, I was at school. It was my last couple of weeks of my, um, sophomore year. And I think that's right. And, um, I, you know, was getting ready for finals and studying. And my dad said, my dad called me and said, the doctors have recommended that we put her in hospice. And my dad has always been, you know, very trustworthy of science and he is very, a very logical person. And so he was waiting for the doctors to tell him. And when they did, he took it seriously and called me. So I came home immediately. And, you know, it was, a very strange time in my life because I still felt like me, you know, but there was just this dark kind of, there's just a dark cloud over our house and we had so many people coming. I remember it was just a revolving door and it was amazing because it wasn't like it was just me and my brother having to do this alone. We had so many supportive mother figures that my mom had loved. that were part of my mom's community, her dance friends, her friends from work, her friends from her volunteer engagements, our family, everyone. I remember we didn't have enough room in the fridge for all the food that people were bringing us. It was just, that part was, will never leave me. And I was sitting on the couch. I remember this and we would kind of, you know, transfer. Some people go upstairs and sit and sit with her for a little bit. And then we'd come downstairs and we were at a point where I was sitting downstairs with my brother and I just, I can't even remember who told us, but someone said, you know, it's time to come up. And so we came up and, uh, the most important people were all there. I just remember me and my mom, honestly, I know that there were other people there, but, um, And again, I remember holding her hand. That part was really important to me. Because that was the part that was the same. That was the part that was the same. Yeah. And that was the part that I remembered. I remembered that feeling. And my whole life is that hand. And I am not a really religious person, especially during that time. It was really tough for me. But for some reason, I was like, I just want to... like cling on to the very best memory that I can remember with my mother this is the time and like I want her to leave with this feeling of love for me and it's a memory that I will never forget and I it's so important to me to recreate it with my kids and it's really simple I grew up on the river and so I I was, I have so many memories of the summer of me swimming and my mom coming down. We have a little hill that gets to the river and coming down with a plate of snacks. And that for some reason, it's just like, that's how she loved us. And that is so important to me. And so that was what I was thinking about. And, and yeah, I mean, my, I was there when she took her last breath and it was the most, difficult thing that I've, that has ever happened to me that I hopefully will ever happen again. Um, yeah, it was, um, do you mind if I share my, my experience that day? So, uh, I would go, I asked Jeff, I asked Camille's dad before I came out. I said, look, I've done this before. I've been through this process before and I love her. So see, I like hot mess, but whatever. Um, I said, I'll go to work during the day, but if you're okay with it, I'd like to be there to help whatever's needed, whatever caregiving is needed, whatever moral supports needed, whatever. Cause I'd gone through it with my, my, uh, sister had gone through with my dad, whatever. Um, and Jeff said, no, that would, I said, but I, you know, if you're, if you're comfortable with that and he said, no, that would be great. So I would go over after work every evening. And that day I drove in the driveway and, I can't remember if he texted me or what, your dad. So I drove in the driveway and I could just feel that she was gone. Like before I ever got out of the car and I got to the door and I think it was Snyder at the door that said, she's going and the family's upstairs. I'm like, so I just sat in the family room. And about 10 minutes later, your dad texted me and said, she's gone. And I said, I'm here, just, I'm here sitting in the family room. And Simone, her sister and Celine, right? Celine. Fabulous. We're taking really just amazing care of her, making sure her hands were lotion, making sure she was comfortable, making sure, I mean, it was just beautiful. And they were there. And these are just some of the people I remember being there. Juliana, of course, Jannie, Allison, Roisin, and being in that room with those women, getting her ready to go. It's just this... It's a horrible time, but there are some really exquisitely beautiful moments that happen around those life changes. And I remember we got her dressed, and... Simone was looking through her thing for earrings, and there were some that my daughter, Taya, had made her, and I said, can we use these? So I put those in. And just, it was just, it was, it's an awful time, but there was so much love in that room, and you could just feel her. You know, she was around, but she wasn't still there. And I think it was just such a, such a gift to, Your dad was around, of course, too. But I think it was such a gift to be able to be there and support in that way. And I think a lot of people, Brene Brown said, her mom told her, we don't turn away from pain. You show up for people who are in pain. And I think for us, when we've had loved ones die, for being able to be there for people when people are close to that point, I think is kind of the most important. it's a beautiful gift you can give to people who are going through something really, really difficult. And it felt like a gift to me to be allowed to be there. So it was just, yeah. And I know there are so many people in the family and people who are like family who have supported you and Lucas and Jeff, like amazingly.

UNKNOWN: 27:36

Amazing.

SPEAKER_00: 27:38

You just got, you guys have put good things out there and you get good things back. Okay. She, yeah, there's truly amazing. the community that she had and each piece, I feel like everyone, there's like a piece of her, you know, and there's, you know, people that love us through feeding us and people that love us through, you know, hugs and physical touch and people that love us through like humor. And it's like all of these different facets of who my mom is. I have different pieces of that in the community that she left behind for us that has not, left us I think that is something that means so much to me is that all of her friends all of the people that she spent so much time loving have not left us I still get you know every single one of her friends still checks in on me every year and it's just it means so much to me and it makes me feel like that how much she mattered, you know, and how the impact that she had on people's lives is not something that is going to be forgotten ever. And it means so much that she's that the memory of her love is not only in my brain or in my dad's brain or in my, my brothers, you know, it's, it's, it's woven through the community. Exactly.

UNKNOWN: 29:06

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 29:07

Uh, okay. So let me ask you a couple of things. First of all, your mom had Lynch, Yada, your grandma had Lynch. Have you been tested? Yes. I was just listening to your other podcast. Um, when you had your doctor on talking about Lynch syndrome and, um, yes, I got tested, um, last year at some point and, um, I did come back negative. Awesome. Which was a relief. And from my understanding, obviously my brother still needs to be tested, but it could be a good sign that I'm negative. And so that was an interesting process, especially doing it here in Oklahoma. I think the standard of care was maybe a little bit different. There was no counseling that was a part of that process which that was what I was expecting I was expecting because I met with a genetic counselor that was her title but there was no sort of like conversation about how this would impact me emotionally or anything like that it was mostly she said you know if you're positive this is what you this is what your options are and if you're not like congratulations, you know, and that was, that was pretty much it. Yeah. So, and it was, the whole thing was like all on like an app and they just, my results, I didn't even get my results from a person. We didn't go back and they didn't. Okay. Yeah. My experience in Georgia was very different. I was at Emory St. Joseph's or I've, no, I was at Northside by Emory. But anyway, yeah, the standard of care was a little different. Let's say. Definitely a little bit different. Yeah. And it was, tough time for me because I was thinking about like how my life might be different if I and what that looks like and I had a lot of conversations with my partner who was incredibly supportive it was I think difficult for him he had never he's never lost a parent and so he didn't really understand kind of the implications of if you if I did have Lynch syndrome, like what that might mean for if I want to have kids or not. And that was a tough conversation that I had with a lot of my support group. And when I was going through that, and because at first I was like, no, if I'm positive, I never want to have kids because I never want to put, um, anyone through that and through what I had to go through. And, um, I think it's relevant to is my brother and I are, I think the fourth generation to have on my mother's side to have a parent die young. So it was something that. Yeah. He passed away when she was 20 and or 19 around there and same. It was just like, I didn't realize it was four. I just, I didn't realize it even back beyond that. That's yeah. Yeah. And it doesn't, we need to, we need to clarify here just because you have Lynch does not mean you're going to get. Absolutely. Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Like that's my experience though. Right. And so I was in, especially, you know, going through that with my mother, I there's, it's really tough to kind of see. Cause it's a visceral thing to you. And that's like you said, that's what you've seen. Yeah, exactly. But I had a friend, um, say something to me. I was, I was talking to her about how I was nervous to go through this process and what that might mean for my future family. And she said something, um, And she said, you know, is your mother dying? Did it make your relationship with her not worth it? And did it make your life not worth it? And that changed my mind immediately. Immediately. Yeah. I love her so much. Is that someone I know? No, unfortunately, I don't think so. She was one of my sorority sisters. Okay. It sounds like something Juliana would say. Yes. Yes. She, no, she, she's a pediatric nurse though. I think that that adds an extra layer of things. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, so that kind of changed things for me. So I kind of, I wasn't as worried going into the process. But it was, and I, even before I got my genes tested, I, I started, getting scans, which I will likely do because my mother also had ovarian cancer. And so that's something that I will keep up with and do for the rest of my life. And regardless of me having Lynch syndrome or not, that's, you know, it's early. I call it maintenance. It's like your car. You just have to keep going and doing it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And every time you know, gut's going to be in knots, but you have to, you know, and at least for me, I don't think that's necessarily the case for everyone. But for me, I need that peace of mind to be able to live my life fully. Same. Totally same. That's why I fly back to Florida every three to four months to get everything checked because they just don't know. I can't have that in my brain, you know, taking up space when I could be fully invested in what I'm doing as much as I can. That's a perfect way to describe it. It takes up way too much bandwidth. So you just need to know. Okay. So what are some things that you wish you'd known ahead of time or you would do differently if you had it to do again? This is a really difficult question. I think for a lot of children who lost parents, especially people that lost parents that were sick and sick for a while. My mother was sick when I was, like I said, a freshman in college when I was home. And that period of my life is the biggest regret of my life. existence. And it changed who I am as a person. And it's something that I'm going to have to work through for the rest of my life. But I was not my best person then. I was young. I didn't really understand the gravity of the situation. No, I was in denial of the gravity of the situation. And I was home. And the idea was that I was home to help take care of my mother so that my dad could keep working. Um, not because I think he's a workaholic, but I think truly my dad cares about his employees and couldn't, couldn't fathom stepping away and how that might impact the, his employees. And so I, I hold not, and he also like dedicated his whole life to my mother. Somehow I, I just, I, He set the bar so high for me. I always joke that I kind of have reverse daddy issues. No one will ever compare to my father. And so I was home for that semester and the following summer and I just couldn't get out of myself. Like I couldn't get out of my own head. I was just, it was really hard. I didn't really, believe how sick she was. And so it was hard for me to take things really seriously. I was not the easiest person to be around. I'm absolutely sure. And it was really difficult. And I was also, you know, watching my friends on social media live college to the fullest and go to all these things. And I felt like I was missing out on that. And then when I put my phone down, you know, my mother looked, sounded and was acting different. And so it was just really difficult for me. You were 18 and 19. You got to cut yourself some slack. I wasn't, I know, but you know, it's hard not to compare it. Like if my dad wasn't around, there's kids that take care of their parents when they're sick and that, and do an amazing job. And I just was like, I think it's partly a product of me having the most incredible childhood. I, when I was writing my essay for college, like I didn't have anything to write about. Everything was sunshine and roses until my mom got sick. And so I had never really experienced a challenge like that and didn't know how to rise up to it. I think is the, what it comes down to. And my dad's best friend, Jeff drove me who is, I'm going to cry even talking about Jeff. There's not a word in our language for someone who is your parent, but not your parent. And that's who Jeff is for me. And he was driving me to the airport one morning to go visit my friends in Oklahoma just for like a weekend or something. And He, it was dark. It was really early. And he basically looked at me and he was like, you need to get it together and you need to shape up because the way that this is affecting your father and your family is not okay. And I, he had never talked to me like that before. He had never, he's not that guy. No, no, exactly. No, he is, you know, so fun and full of life. And it was so seems so serious. And to I knew that I was, I was way out of line. And I don't know how much I really changed after that. But that conversation also really impacted the rest of my life. And so that is definitely something that I would change. It's my behavior during that time. I think that if you know, she was sick now, it would look, my participation in that would look very, very different. And I think too, if I could, it would have been living with her in the center. I think I was still too young and I was living with me and I was the center of my own life. And because I didn't realize that my time with her was getting shorter and shorter, I was in total denial about that. So I was like, who cares if I spend this hour with her, like I'm going to have the rest of my life. Right. And now it's not, that's not the case. Don't you think, but I think knowing you just, even when you were in your whatever phase, you're you at the center of the universe phase, if you knew how limited the time was, it would have been different. It would have. Absolutely. Absolutely. So I think you need to, I think you also need to give yourself some grace and cut yourself some slack because your mother is is not looking down. And I do believe she's looking down. I don't think your mother's looking down saying, wow, you really screwed up during that time. I'm very disappointed. She just wants you to be happy and have a good life. That's it. I was just talking to my therapist about this. And he said, are you something along the lines of like, have you been able to forgive yourself? Or like, how are you giving yourself grace? And I said, you know, the main reason is because I know that my mother is not holding it against me. Oh, heck no. I know that she's not. And that is what makes it okay for me. And I know too, that that has, that experience shaped who I am as a person and it completely changed. I mean, I was on track. I wanted to be a corporate lawyer. I wanted to be some hotshot that, you know, was me at the center of the universe. And that's all that I cared about was success and climbing the ladder and being respected in a fancy suit and completely changed. I didn't go to law school, completely changed my life. Now for me, relationships are the absolute most important part of my life. Most important part. And I think it would have taken me a lot longer to get to that. And I not gone through that experience with my mother, but yeah, you know, now I, I try to live my life in a way that would make her really proud. And I think that that's, that's kind of my guiding light right now. I think that's awesome. Well, I think we already covered what you've learned and what's your biggest takeaway from the experiences. So are there any other like tips and tricks that you would give to people that we haven't covered already? Um, yeah, I think, Oh, one really something that my, I think my dad read about this, um, when he, when my mom was sick and it was a concept of, um, rings. I sent him that. Yep. Did you? Okay. Okay. Yes. And that, I love that thing. Yeah. Explain it. Well, it's just, um, actually I'll post a link in the comments down below, but it's basically this woman, um, Came up with this theory that's fantastic. And it's like the person who is sick is at the center of the ring. It's like concentric circles. Okay. The person who's sick is the center ring. Out of that is like the spouse. The next one is like children. The next one is like extended family. And the whole thing is you pour good things to the rings that are inner to you. Mm-hmm. And if you have stuff to bitch and moan about, that goes to somebody at an external farther out circle. You do not pour negativity forward. You only pour the good stuff in and you let anybody there vent out as they need. And I think that concept, because I mean, I've heard of people getting diagnosed. And so I'll say like, well, I can't tell you how this is going to affect my life to somebody else who's like a friend. And it's like, shut up. You are not, I think that speaks to what you're saying about as a kid, because you were a kid. Yes. You putting yourself at the center and realizing, oh crap, no, the center's my mom and I'm over here and I need to be dumping all the good I can this way. Exactly. Exactly. It helped me kind of understand how to navigate the relationship with my dad and my brother during that time. And also helped me understand, for some reason it like helped me kind of like shut out the noise because, you know, my mom was a very passionate person. She's surrounded by a lot of passionate people. And so not everyone followed that idea, but everybody's talking. Yeah, exactly. I was able to kind of like, I don't have to listen to that. I don't have to, I don't have to something that was really difficult for me. And I think it was difficult for a lot of children that go through this is feeling like you need to comfort other people. And when people came to me with how sad they were, how difficult it was for them, I immediately felt like I needed to like, Oh, bring them up or something. And that idea of the rings made, made me feel more comfortable saying, okay, this is not my responsibility. I don't have to make you feel better. And it also gave me, made me feel more comfortable leaning on those outer rings a little bit more rather than trying to lean in with my dad and my brother. I felt like I had was comfortable. gave me a little bit more direction on how to do that. So that was something that was really important. I think that I share that concept with everyone that I talk to that goes through a similar experience. Because it helps define where the boundaries are really well. Yeah. And for someone like me that wouldn't normally, I don't know, I don't think if I would share the more difficult parts or try to talk through that stuff it was hard for me to feel more comfortable doing that with those outside rings was good and I think to as much as you can is to try to find others that have gone through an experience like that No one, no one understands unless their parent also died of cancer. There is just not, you know, people you always have to deal with like, Oh, my aunt died and it was really bad. You're like, no, my dog died. Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh my gosh. People say the most wild things. Yes. I'm like, this is not the same. And I would say grief is grief is and pain is pain and comparative suffering is, is we, we do that a lot, but you really don't, you can understand the emotions that they're feeling, but you do not understand the experience until you've been through it. Exactly. Exactly. And so anytime this might sound awful, but anytime that I find someone in my circle, like, you know, my community and, that has also lost a parent, it's almost like an immediate connection. Like there's just an immediate, Oh my gosh, you get it. And we, I deal with a lot of things through humor and it's not a joke that people can laugh at. People can't laugh at dead mom jokes unless they have a dead mom. Right. And it's part for me, it's like part of the process. It's part of like coming to terms with it. And so that anytime that I can, connect with someone that has gone through it is, is really helpful. That's awesome. Yeah. I liked what you said. I'm just, I'm just so glad that ring thing was helpful because it helped me a lot. Good. Okay. So last couple of things, bucket list items and your favorite places to be. Yes. So, you know, you sent me that question beforehand and I've been trying to think so much because it's never really put a Um, my dad would laugh if you hear this. It's mostly because I'm just an extremely risk averse person. My whole life. I have just never been, my dad would take us skiing and he would have to tear himself in two because my brother loves risk would be flying down the mountain, going over all kinds of jumps. He's in the trees, everything. And I'm still at the very top with my like pizza, you know, pie piece of pie, like so slow. And my dad's like, I can't take care of the both of you at the same time. So I, I, a lot of, I think common bucket list items don't make it for me, but I, I want to recreate that memory with my own children. I want to love people like my mom did. And that, that's what's so important to me. I want to have, I want to have a family that I can love the way that she did. And to tell you the truth, one of the, things I'm most sad about when it comes to, I know this is not the question, but for me, it's really related while having a family is like one of the most important pieces for me. The idea of not having my mom there. Yeah. Is so difficult. Like, I just don't know because she is, loved kids and loved babies and like she not only that but she was a woman that wanted to be in my business like no mother I think wanted to be all up in my business all the time and so like the idea of her like not being in the delivery room with me like that has was never even a concept the woman would have dug through the ground and formed a tunnel to get in somehow um And so the idea of her not being there is something that is going to be a struggle for me. I think I can already see it, but you know, the idea of having a kid and having a family that I can love the way that she loves me is so important to me. And that is one of the reasons I decided not to be a lawyer because I was never wanted to be in a career where I couldn't put my family first. Um, and that right now, you know, I'm in this process of looking for a job and I want to find somewhere where I can work for the rest of my life. That's going to, and the number one thing for me is I need to find a company that's going to support mothers and support women, um, and allow me to be there for my kids. She'd be, she would be so thrilled.

UNKNOWN: 50:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 50:45

To hear that. And I think that's an amazing goal. If you can live people, love people the way Valeria Ball loved people, you're doing just fine. Two more. Okay. Favorite place to be. And then I have one last question for you. Yes. This is so, I think the opposite of my mom, which is so, I think this is where I lean more towards my father, but my favorite place is to be home. I want to just be home with the people that I love. And it's not like, Whether that be with my dad in Oregon and just sitting outside with him or with my partner here in our home in Oklahoma. It's not anything fancy. We don't have to be doing anything. I just want to be around with those people. That's my favorite place to be. I love that. Real quickly, do you mind if I asked you a couple questions about your dad and watching him with Barb? Yes. Yes. I think so. An important part of this story that if this makes it in, I'm going to send it to everyone that keeps asking me these questions because my dad, um, met Barb pretty for the second time, I believe pretty soon after my mom passed away. Cause Dave introduced them, right? Yes. A family friend introduced them and immediately, um, a barrage of questions. Every, every person that was in my mom's community, her army came forward and was like, Camila, how do you feel about this? Camila, what do you think? How is it too soon? What do you think about this? Yada, yada, da, da, da. You know, how, how are you feeling? What do you think this is the right decision? And all this stuff. And I'm like, first of all, I'm 18. My father is a full, well, at this point I was 20, but my father is a full grown adult. Second, which I think that a lot of people didn't realize is that because of the brand image that she sustained, in the very beginning of her illness, she was a different person. She was a different person. We had the family, her physical body was there for much longer than her mind and spirit was. And so while it was a few months after my mom had passed, like it made sense to me because my dad had given his entire life to her during that time. And people don't realize that when someone's dying of cancer, especially with brain cancer where they're changing so much, I think honestly with any cancer, you're grieving all along the way. You're grieving by degrees every single day because you see what's happening. So that process is not all something that's stored up until after the person dies and then you experience it. You've been doing it for years. Yeah, yeah. And this is something that I don't think– I would normally share except for I would want other people that go through this to know that it's not just them. Um, I felt a lot of relief when she passed because I knew that she was no longer in pain, but I also knew that my dad was going to be able to start the process of getting his life back. And, um, that day that my mom took her last breath, what, what brought tears to my eyes was actually, I remember so specifically looking over to my dad and seeing his wedding band and knowing that that was till death. It was like death did them part. And that's what, that's what made me cry. And that was what was really tough for a really long time was thinking about my dad without her. And so, I thought it was going to be a really terrible process for me, for my dad to be, to find someone, to find a new partner. And anyone that knows my mom knows that like, you know, she was not down to share him, but I think that she would, she would, you know, of course you would want him to be happy. And they, what makes me so okay with his new relationship with Bard is that she's not like my mother at all. It never once for a moment felt like my dad was trying to replace her or anything like that. And Barb is exactly, exactly what my dad needs. It's as if a doctor, you know, prescribed the perfect medicine for him. I love that. And she's a, just a fabulous human being. You know what I mean? She's my dad in female form. It's the craziest thing. Sometimes she says these terrible jokes that I'm like, who's mouth did that come out of? My dad's are barbs. I can't tell. And she has brought joy to his life. She as well has gone through a death of her family. So she understands. She gets it. She gets it in a way that she's never once tried to step in and be my mother ever before. she's just good people so conscious the whole time to not overstep her boundaries to a point where we are dragging her into family pictures being like you are a family get in here now you know like she's been so careful and so respectful and like I said she is the best medicine for my father and it has brought such relief to me I felt I would have moved back to Oregon immediately if it was not you know I would have made the the journey back way sooner if it wasn't for Barb. But I know that she is taking care of him and looking out for him and being a partner to him. And they're just, they're just, they're just so easy and at peace with each other and they make each other happy. And that's a beautiful, beautiful thing. And your mother would not have wanted anything less. Exactly. Exactly. And it's just funny because like my mom was this, really passionate person that I can assume was like amazing and really fun for my dad when he was young, you know, but now that he's later in his life, you know, it's, I think it's a little bit different and she has his same sense of humor and he, I know that she's going to keep him laughing for the rest of his life, which is like, what more could you ask for, you know, from someone. No, it's beautiful. And thank you for sharing that because I know what I think, but it's really neat to hear it from your perspective. Well, Camila, thank you for being willing to do this. I really appreciate it. And I love how open and honest you were about the things you wish you'd done differently. The things that were the hardest for you. The thing about boundaries, I think is really, really important, especially for kids who are trying to make things better for the surviving parent, whatever else you just, yeah, you're a good old soul kid. Thank you. Thank you. I'm trying to be. It's all I guess we can really do. So thank you, Heidi, for the role that you've played in our support group and our family. I just love you guys. We'll never forget. And I mean, you shared with me earlier that you remember my mom helping take care of your kids and whether that was picking them up from school. And I was like, I remember that. I locked that in. I was like, that's another thing. I can do that. I can do that for someone. Yeah. Yeah. So thank you. You are your mother's daughter as well as your father's daughter. And that's a beautiful thing. She's looking over me dancing right there. I love it. Picture of her dancing. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. It's wonderful to see Camila ball all grown up and living such a great life. Her mother would be so proud of the woman she's become. As you go about your day, please do something nice that lightens someone else's burden. Thanks for joining us.