Life, Cancer, Etc.
Life, Cancer, Etc.
After-Treatment Update aka Tiffany Goulding & Lauren Bales, Part Deux
*** CONTENT WARNING: There's a minor swear in this and we use terms like "breast" and "boob," so please use headphones if you're listening around kiddos. ***
Tiffany Goulding and Lauren Bales were on the podcast back in January, while Tiff was in the middle of treatment for breast cancer (listen to Season 1, Episode 9 to hear that interview). Now, they're back to talk about how Tiff is doing, things they've experienced and learned over the past 8 months, and future plans. They're delightful, as always, and I love talking with them.
Link to their first episode: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1468990/episodes/7104451
NOTE: I am not a medical professional. Everyone on the "Life, Cancer, Etc." podcast is sharing their own experiences, not giving medical advice.
Photo courtesy of Tiff & Lauren
All other content © 2022 Heidi Bragg and Life, Cancer, Etc. All rights reserved.
Keywords: breast cancer, friend with breast cancer, loved one with breast cancer, supporting a breast cancer patient, fears about breast cancer, working with breast cancer, working during cancer treatment
You can also find some episodes on our YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/LifeCancerEtc
I'm Heidi Bragg, and this is Life, Cancer, etc. My goal with this podcast is to connect you with stories and resources that help you feel happier, more resilient, and less stressed, especially when you're going through hard times. So... Yeah, it was a Saturday after Christmas.
SPEAKER_01:Oh
SPEAKER_00:my gosh. So nearly eight months ago, we started talking because Tiff had recently been diagnosed with breast cancer and Lauren, her best friend and co-mortgagee, is her daily support person. How about that? Because I know you have a lot of people who support you, Tiff.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Daily support person. So Tiff's gone through... treatment to a degree already. And we're going to talk a little bit about that and about what that process was like for Lauren as well. And having cancer during COVID, which is like next level suckage. Is that a word? I just made one. I think it is. I feel like if you know what it means, then it works. You know. Okay. And then we're going to talk about some of the good things that have happened during that time. So good morning, ladies. Good morning. It's so good to see you. I had to, I had to just decide to press record because we'd already been off and running and talking for like 10 minutes. All right. So why don't you start Tiff with kind of last time we had talked, it was right before you started chemo. Was that right? No, I had had how many, two, three, I had had three. Oh, and Lauren is the keeper of the numbers. And she's only been wrong once in all the different numbers that she's come up with.
SPEAKER_01:And I realized why I was wrong. Yes, I think you did. I can't remember. What did you say? Well, I thought her surgery was November 11th, but it was November 10th. And I was like, why is November 11th stuck in my head? Because that was the day I got my flu shot. That's all. Okay. Big deal. A big deal, everyone. Yes.
SPEAKER_00:When Lauren says, when I say a number and Lauren says no, we can 99.9% guarantee that either she's right or she will know why she's wrong within about three seconds. Yeah,
SPEAKER_01:basically. That's why I have a spreadsheet why I'm right. Yes. Okay, so Tiff. Yeah, so I had had three. I think at that point I... was feeling very minor effects from chemo. And I, well, gosh, I feel like I don't have any good tips because I don't really, I feel okay. And it, yeah, it took a while. And when people say, you know, it's coming and, you know, the cumulative effects, you're like, yeah, yeah, okay, that's probably true. And, you know, But as they started to come on and as I started to feel worse, I thought, oh, okay. They were right.
SPEAKER_00:So what were your biggest side effects that you had? The ones that, oh, and here come the dogs, of course, with their clacky claws and their jingly. Yeah. Hey, bud. What were your biggest side effects?
SPEAKER_01:What were my biggest side effects? What do you think? Um, fatigue, weakness. I was very fatigued and I got, it's true. I got really weak. Like it took me a while to get up the stairs at the end. Um, the, yeah, I was just, I was just very weak and tired and I never was like tired. nauseous or sick or anything like that. My mouth was very sensitive. I feel like my tongue was really just big and sensitive and my teeth were sharp. Did
SPEAKER_00:you have the mouth sores? But I never had
SPEAKER_01:mouth sores. It just was like everything was just kind of sharp in my mouth. I don't know. Yeah, I just felt like generally... Terrible. They gave me steroids every time. So the cumulative effect of the steroids was terrible. I don't know. Were you able to eat? I was able to eat. Yeah, like just softer stuff. But I think generally I was still able to eat. I don't know. Things tasted different. Oh, yeah. Yeah, things tasted different. That metal, metallic, weird. Acidic and, like, the spaghetti sauce tasted too spicy to me. Right? Yeah. Yeah, I think the fatigue was probably the biggest part of it. And just a general feeling of, I don't feel good. Yeah. Your body just doesn't feel like your own and you feel like, this is how it's going to be forever. Well,
SPEAKER_00:and in the South, they have that phrase, at least I've heard it most in the South, bone tired. And it's that, it's that just like exhaustion to the core. Did you get the achy whatever or were you just fatigued?
SPEAKER_01:I don't remember feeling achy. just super fatigued and tired and I just, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I think it's good for people to understand that not everybody is violently throwing up all the time. I wasn't, I didn't want to eat and I, I did have the mouth sores. So I, uh, they made me the magic mouthwash. They sent that prescription and it's like, um, lidocaine, milk of magnesia, um, And I think like nice statin or something to help with yeast. So basically you gargle that and then whatever's in it, you can swallow it as well. So it coats the esophagus and that helped, that helped with making these eat. But I just, I just really had no desire for food. Like, nah. So they told us at the, when we talked to the dietician, she's like, at this point in your treatment, it's just calories. If you feel like eating a pint of ice cream, eat a pint of ice cream because it's, Because I was like, well, I don't want to do anything to encourage cancer to come back and whatever. She's like, anything that sounds good to you, eat it and eat as much as you can while you feel like that sounds good. Because you don't know when that's going to change. My friend Tay said the same thing. Her son Quinn, for a while it was hot dogs. And she's like, they're gross. But that was all he would eat. So we had hot dogs. A lot. Yeah.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:From my perspective, I don't think we're capturing fatigue yet.
SPEAKER_00:Please enlighten us, Laura. And weakness.
SPEAKER_01:There was a very visible deterioration in what she was able to do and how long she was able to tolerate things. And it was shaped like a hockey stick. Going up the stairs every night got a little slower at first. And then it got really slower. And then there was like no ability to carry things up the stairs. And then there was pausing on the landing halfway up the stairs and then pausing on the way to the landing and then pausing at the landing and then pausing on the second half of the stairs. I mean, just really slow steps. And we went for a drive on a Saturday for like an hour and And that wiped her out for the day. Like she was done for that. That's all she could do. She came, it was, it was winter time. We got home and she didn't even take her big jacket off because it was cold all the time. Oh yeah. That too. Yep. So we came inside, she made a hot cup of tea or maybe I made it for you. Maybe you made it. I don't know. You were slow. Tea was made. Tea was made. Mistakes were made.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:He was made and Tiff got on the couch and got under a blanket with her hot tea and her jacket still on and her hat still on. Pathetic. It was, it was not good. There were nosebleeds all the time. Oh, that was a big one. And all the trash cans looked like a crime scene. And so I followed her around with a humidifier. Like every night I would make sure the humidifier there's been, please don't try to take it yourself. And every day, like she was still working.
SPEAKER_00:I was wondering, you said you worked through all this too.
SPEAKER_01:So I'd take the humidifier downstairs in the day just to see if we can mitigate some of that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Well, especially
SPEAKER_01:with
SPEAKER_00:the heater on all winter in Colorado, it's like, it's not going to get better.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. Yeah. The nose was, I forgot about that. Yeah. I don't know what the deal was and I still just randomly have like just drip. It's just random.
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah. I have that too sometimes. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I'll be like, whoops. Oh, hi. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It wasn't dripping.
SPEAKER_00:And there was
SPEAKER_01:face numbness. Let's not forget the neuropathy.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, God. Okay. Sorry. I forgot all these things. No, but here's an interesting thing, though. It's been... When was your last treatment? February 24th was the last. Okay. So it's been... Roughly six months since chemo. And you do kind of forget because you're talking and I'm trying to remember what was the worst thing. Like it wasn't life altering. It wasn't fun. I don't have any desire to do it again if I don't need to. But it wasn't life alteringly awful for me personally.
SPEAKER_01:Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It's true. Like I would start to feel like, of course you feel the good today after, and then it's the Friday and it's like Saturday. You're like, Oh my gosh. Like, it's like your whole body was just puffed up and my whole neck would be tight and my face would be tight. And I would just feel like, Oh, my fingers would feel all numb and puffy in my feet. My feet still feel a little bit weird. Like, it's like, It's like they've fallen asleep, but just on the bottoms.
SPEAKER_00:It's weird. Why not do that? Or you'll wake up and everything's kind of numb and you got to wait for blood flow to come back. And it's not like regular, my arm fell asleep. It's different. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It's like a feeling of, I don't know. It's just, just in the last month, maybe my fingers have stopped being so puffy where I'm like, Oh, rings fit again. Not that I wear rings that often, but Oh, they fit again. But
SPEAKER_00:yeah. How did it affect your work? Cause Tiff's, What's the proper term, court reporter? Court reporter, yeah. Okay, so she needs her fingers to work, and that was a big concern when we first talked.
SPEAKER_01:I was super concerned about that. You know, I was able to work the whole time, and it didn't ever get so bad that I couldn't fill the machine. So that's good. I was still able to work, and we're in the middle of COVID, and we were still doing everything remotely. So, like, personal blessing to me, I was just able to work at home. There's no way I would have been able to lug 20 pounds of my equipment and my machine and my computer and, you know, lug it downtown and in heels and find a parking space and lug it up to the office. I just think, oh, man, what a blessing. I could just, like, come down, do my depo on the remote and then, like, relax. It just... I felt the same way. Such a blessing. I didn't have to worry about going and being around people. Right. Man. I mean, the attorneys were so nice. They never, ever like, I never got a wig. I just was like, you know what? Who cares? That's not me. I'm not doing that. I didn't either. Thank you. Yeah. It just, it came to it. And I was like, Oh wait, I think my hair started falling out right after I talked to you. Cause I had, it hadn't fallen out yet.
SPEAKER_00:No. And we talked like we started texting like the next week. You're like, okay. So it happened. Cause you were, you were three weeks in and I'm like, that's kind of when mine started. Did you shave it? What'd you, you shaved it, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So the one day it just started coming out in the shower and it was just like, just leaving my head. And I was like, okay, we have to shave it today. So yeah, we shaved it that day. We shaved it into a Mohawk, which lasted like three days. Yeah. And then it kind of, did you try the lint roller trick? That hurt my head. Really? Yeah. I just, it was super sensitive and I just was like, Oh, I think I'll just, I think
SPEAKER_00:I, it was too much for my head. Well, and you got a lot more chemo than I did. I did three rounds. It was one week one, one week two chemo, one week one kind, one week two kind, week off. And I did that three times. But that was after I'd gotten all the radiation. So it was kind of just like an insurance.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. This was 12 weeks. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:No, thank you. Mine was nine total. That was enough for me. Well, and your follicles... Like, I don't know how to explain to people that your hair follicles hurt. I do. It's just, it's a weird sensitivity. Stingy, but not, but like if you touch them and move them, it's like an electric. I don't.
SPEAKER_01:It was weird. I don't know. Yeah. All the, all the weird things, but yeah. I just wore, I just wore caps on my head and it was winter. It was winter. Who cares? I got myself a couple of cashmere beanies and those were super soft and warm. Cause yeah. Oh, your niece took exception to that.
SPEAKER_00:Why? From a stylistic standpoint? She's
SPEAKER_01:so funny. Any change. She's like, I have to think about that. She didn't turn to this June. She did just turn two. So she was, yeah. And she,
SPEAKER_00:Did she take exception to the baldness or the beanies? Because I'm unclear.
SPEAKER_01:All of it. All of it. Well, I would have a beanie on. So she got used to me having just the beanie on. And then my other niece, who is two years older, was like, she wanted to see my head. And so I took it off. And Izzy comes around the corner and she goes, she stops dead, stares at me. Zoop, right back up the stairs. Yeah. But yeah, as it started growing back, I would hold her and she would put her hand on my head. Hair. Hair.
SPEAKER_00:She was like your hair barometer. I know. She'd be like, oh, it's okay now. There's hair. I love that.
SPEAKER_01:I know. She's adorable.
SPEAKER_00:It's just, and then have you, where are you with radiation? Did you do that? I
SPEAKER_01:did. So I finished chemo February 24th and like, okay, so here's the that whole time you're like, you're telling yourself, this is okay. I'm just one more. I'm going to be fine. It's great. I'm making it. And like, they kept telling me about, you know, ring, you're going to ring the bell at the end. And I was like, Oh, okay. What, what even is that? And my chemo that day was like late. They had been late. They were busy. And like, so I was like the last person in the chemo. in the chemo ward area. And they're just like cleaning up and I'm getting done and stuff. And I'm just like, okay, I'm just gonna leave. And I'm about to the door and then one nurse goes, she goes, oh no, this is your last chemo. You ring that bell. And I was like, okay. I rang the bell, all the nurses like, yeah, you did it. And as I turned to the door, I sobbed. I started sobbing like, like, like I just, oh, made it. And I sobbed all the way to the car. Like, it just was like, okay, that was, that was hard. That was so
SPEAKER_00:hard. Well, I, I think you're kind of like me in that you, you're great in the crisis. Like you do it. You get through it. And I am a frigging emotional pop tart. When things are over and it's safer, you know?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. All of a sudden you're
SPEAKER_00:like,
SPEAKER_01:oh, there it is. It's the weight of it. And that stupid bell is like, oh. Well, and can we set the scene a little bit? Oh, gosh. There were 12 Wednesdays of chemo, and Thursday was always steroid day. It was okay. Friday, it began to come down. And as the weeks progressed and the cumulative effects grew, the steroid day got smaller. The hard part got longer and worse. Like the 10th week was hard and yucky and she didn't feel good and she was puffy and had neuropathy and didn't move well and was bloody nose and didn't sleep well and wasn't comfortable ever. And then the 11th week was worse and it wasn't even the last one. So emotionally, the 11th was the hardest because like it was so much worse than 10 and it wasn't over. Not the last one. Yeah. Yeah. And like, there aren't very many times when I have seen Tiff not feel, you know, have not have hopeful as one of the, you know, prevailing feelings. Right. But it was just like, she was almost out for the count and the 11th was so bad and it wasn't even the end. And then the 12th was also super physically, but we were done. Right. So the 12th chemo was like right after that very worst weekend, um, that lasted, you know, five days. And then you just, she just, she used to start feeling good on like Sunday night. And then by the 12th, it was like Wednesday morning, she doesn't feel terrible. And then she would have to go get another infusion. And so that was the day of the bell ringing. And for me, can we back to me? Yes, let's do. Let's do. Because it was COVID, I couldn't go sit by her during the infusions. And so I don't know any of these nurses who she met and loved and interacted with and who supported her during those hours. And so like she rang the bell and I didn't get to see it, but she was still surrounded by people who were rooting for her. And invested in her as a person. Yeah. And so I'm super grateful for those nurses who I didn't meet. I mean, I was downstairs waiting for her to come out because she couldn't drive because she had the Benadryl, but you know, well,
SPEAKER_00:did you react?
SPEAKER_01:I did.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I did too. And I was like, Oh, this is what they mean by that. Oh,
SPEAKER_01:well,
SPEAKER_00:yeah. I was like, and I just was patting my friend, Sarah, who's the, the first interview I ever did for the pocket. Say again. The good holy water. Yes, the good holy water, Sarah. Oh, I just love her. Sarah was sitting by me and I could feel something happening. I was getting hot. It was getting hard to breathe. And it was so, they explained what would happen, but it was the one I had the first chemo by itself. It didn't when I had the second one. The second one was the one I reacted to. And so I didn't think I needed Benadryl. I was fine. And I just felt myself getting hot, felt it getting harder to breathe. it felt like my ears were, and I just started patting Sarah. I'm like, something's wrong. And she goes, she stands up, Sarah. This is, and our chemo room was a quiet chemo room. I don't know about yours, but it was always like quiet. We were the ones laughing and talking. Whoever came with me, which was a huge blessing that we could, but we were loud and talking and laughing and making inappropriate, probably jokes or because people act. That's how I deal with hard things with humor. And so Sarah stands up and goes, um, We need someone over here right now. And the nurse, you know, you know how the nurses are. They're all over. They're like circling, just watching. And one was right there. They shot me up with Benadryl. It took a little while. We waited 15 minutes and then they were able to finish my infusion. And that was great. But that reaction feeling for me, that was, it was unknown. I don't want to say scary because they had warned me it could happen. And I get a lot of fear around anticipation of things I don't understand. And I haven't anticipated any. problem or anything. But it was, it was a very, a very all encompassing kind of moment. It's like a tunnel vision moment in a movie. I don't know. And I was gonna tell you, Lauren, Kelly, Tiff is my next youngest sister and Kel came out for the last chemo. And so we have a picture of us. They didn't have a bell in their chemo room because quiet chemo room. Oh, we had a radiation bell and they insisted that you bring it. And there were tons of people clapping and that was awesome. And I did radiation first. So chemo, I was like, I'll take a picture in front of the wall. No big deal. But my, my sister was able to be there with me. And I was just thinking about, I think that's kind of a cathartic, thing for the caregiver too. And I feel bad, Lauren, that you didn't, you didn't get that moment. You got the moment when she came down and out the door downstairs. Yeah. Yeah. But it's just COVID has just COVID sucks. COVID screwed up so much stuff.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. It did screw up that part. And I do like sounds are a big deal to me. Like I like to hear the sound. She's a music teacher y'all. Yeah. But it's also like COVID worked in our favor because Tiff got to work at home. I know, but you know, it's the, it's the, the good and the, the good and the bad together. Our friend, our friend Nancy calls it the, the gift and the shadow. There's always, there's always a shadow of every gift.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:That's very true.
SPEAKER_01:But yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. To
SPEAKER_01:radiation.
SPEAKER_00:And how many treatments did you have? Oh, so many. It's weeks. Like
SPEAKER_01:so many.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Every day, six weeks, right? Every day. Seven weeks, six weeks or seven. I started in March. So I started the next month. Yeah. Yeah, a couple weeks off, three weeks off, maybe.
SPEAKER_00:I think that's what I had just between the two, just between radiation and chemo, just to kind of.
SPEAKER_02:Oh,
SPEAKER_00:and P.S., you don't feel automatically better week after chemo. You start feeling better, but it's a gradual coming out of that process. And radiation is the flip side. The cumulative effects of the radiation hit you more after the radiation treatments are done, and then you've got to let your body deal with the after effects and kind of come back from that. I just don't want people to have unrealistic expectations. That's true. No,
SPEAKER_01:it took me... Yeah. I think mentally I felt the uptick in my mental after chemo, like, Oh, it's Wednesday and look what I'm not doing chemo, you know? And so I, I felt the uptick of my mental, but yeah, for your body, it was like, you still just feel kind of the All the cumulative effects of chemo, it's still in there. It's still doing its thing. It's still, it was, when did I lose my eyelashes? I didn't lose eyelashes or eyebrows or anything else all the way through chemo. And I was like, okay, well I guess I'm going to keep my eyelashes. And then afterwards I was like, What's happening to my face? What is happening to my down there?
SPEAKER_00:She's leaning into the camera, taking her glasses off and speaking sternly. Where is all
SPEAKER_01:my hair going? All of a sudden, I was like, hey. We're done here. What the heck? I thought we were done here, and now I'm losing all my hair. That was funny to me. I was like, whoo. So eyebrows and eyelashes jumped ship all together like three weeks after chemo ended. And then they came back and then they jumped ship again. They did. They did just about, what, a month ago? Yeah. Maybe a month ago. I was like,
SPEAKER_00:what's
SPEAKER_01:happening to my face?
SPEAKER_00:Let's say the other part that I thought was weird. This last time they jumped ship, you had... new little eyelashes, like already, like right there, like pushing them out. Like these little teeny tiny guys were just
SPEAKER_01:like pushing. And I was Googling it because I was like, is this a thing? And apparently because they all fell out at the same time at first, they're all on the same growth cycle. And so usually your eyelashes aren't on the same growth cycle, but they're all on the same. So they're going to do that a couple of times is what, whatever. Yeah. Okay. You're alive. You're talking about it. I'm alive. I mean, you know.
SPEAKER_00:So do you have to do any other treatment or anything at this point? Or you're just on checks or what?
SPEAKER_01:So after I finished radiation May 3rd, and so my boob is super tan still. I
SPEAKER_00:have to tell you a dork moment after you finish the story, a dork radiation moment. Go ahead.
SPEAKER_01:Awesome. So after I finished radiation, then I'm just on the Herceptin every three weeks. I have two more of those. Is
SPEAKER_00:that an infusion or what do they do?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's an infusion. So I still go into the same place and it's, I think it takes like 30 minutes to infuse. Um, and then I'm done. So it's not hard and it's not like, like they have to check your heart when you're on Herceptin. Um, so I go and check my heart every three weeks just to make sure that it's not damaging it. Yeah. So I do that every three weeks and then. And then do you do that for a year or what do they do? Uh, yes. Well, it's just under a year. Cause I'll be done. My last one is September 29th. So I'll be done with that. And then they just give you, they do like a vinyl, like mammogram and blood work. And I also went on Tamoxifen in June. So I'll be on that for five years.
SPEAKER_00:Is that an oral? That's a pill, right?
SPEAKER_01:That's just a pill.
SPEAKER_00:And then do they, do your scans every three months to start? Like, how do they work? I
SPEAKER_01:think so. I think, well, I think they'll give me a mammogram probably in November just to get a baseline. And then they will follow up with me every three months and then every six months. And then, you know, Okay. They keep telling me they won't be done with me for a while, but I'm like, well, I will see you a lot less in 2022. Well, and
SPEAKER_00:they won't be done. But my whole thing is they caught my third cancer. Cause I was getting PET scans. Yeah. So it's like, I can't really argue with their methods.
SPEAKER_01:I can't either. I just don't want to, I just don't want to
SPEAKER_00:like a child. I don't want
SPEAKER_01:to
SPEAKER_00:know. And I, I felt like this sounds very, uh, paternal and I don't mean it to, but I felt like that after the first one a lot. I just wanted to be done and put it behind me. And after the second one and the monitoring, catching the third one, I'm like, oh, this is like tune-ups.
SPEAKER_01:Keep
SPEAKER_00:this engine running right. We go in for tune-ups and sometimes things need to be fixed. Sometimes it's just like a trip check, you know, to make sure that all the belts are still in good condition and whatever else. When I look at it as a tune-up and as long-term maintenance, I told him, I told my sarcoma specialist, I said, I'm looking at this. like, I'm going to call it maintenance. These kinds of things we do, even with the, the, the third cancer, it's just maintenance. It's just stuff we got to do to keep, he said, you understand. He's like, you understand that. I'm like, no, no, I hear you in my mind. We're calling it maintenance. He's like, all right, whatever works. Yeah. I realized there's a third cancer, but he's like, he's like, He was basically like, it's not just going in for your yearly mammogram. You got it. And I'm like, I'm doing the things. And in my head, it's maintenance. Okay, here's my dork radiation moment. So when you get radiation, it goes through tissue, right? So I got 60 gray, which is a lot, directly to my heart, which they usually try to avoid. But it saved my life. Yeah. I'm, you know, and they kept checking my scar because it's on my open heart incision and I'm looking at it and they, you know, check my skin and everything. I'm such a, such a dork. I'm like, they're like, well, can we check your back? I'm like, yeah. And they were looking at it and everything. And I'm like, I've got this spot on my back. That's just so itchy. You know, they're like, Heidi, The field goes all the way through. Like you've been lotioning. I've been treating the front with like frankincense oil and it looked good. I've been doing jack crap for the back. So I've got this like, I had this like sunburned spot on my back, you know, that was like, that is just so itchy. I wonder what's going on. So it was a
SPEAKER_01:super good control because it was your skin on your same body at the same time. Wow. Not being treated with the beautiful stuff you were doing on.
SPEAKER_00:It's true. So as a, as a control, it did work very well. Thank you. Nice reframe.
SPEAKER_01:Just doing your own study here. I mean, is lotion really necessary? They really hyped the lotion. You really need to lotion your boob. And I was like, Oh, really? Okay.
SPEAKER_00:No, it makes a huge difference. I'm like, yeah, Cause you get people really, people will get, they're not all just that concerned about your boob lotion. So, but they, but people can get really, really compromised skin and then they get secondary infections. And so luckily I was kind of lotioning the back, but I didn't do all the like frankincense and whatever oil on it that I did on the front. And they were always like, your scar looks so good. Your scar looks so good. I'm like, yeah, cause I'm putting, stuff on it every day of course my back you know whatever just someday i'll get better okay now i want to hear so since then you guys have taken a super fun trip and i want to hear about that was this like a because we did italy as a you know the the mom beat cancer worldwide tour part of that that was kind of the european tour whatever so tell about your trip
SPEAKER_01:Oh, man. Well, can we just shout out Donna first? Our friend Donna. She is a wonderful person, and she organized the 12 weeks of chemo, which I don't know that we had understood the pattern yet after only three. No, because she sent me. The first day of chemo, she dropped off a Bundt cake, and she sent me a video of her. It's a Bundt. A Bundt cake. On the first day of chemo. And I was like, well, that's nice. I don't know why I'm an idiot. So then Rolaine, my other friend, brings a plate of cookies with two things on it. Just like on the second week of chemo. That's so freaking awesome. So she had organized somebody to come every single week and just bring continually like on the fourth week of chemo. Yeah. That is an amazing idea. Super amazing. She has a daughter and son-in-law whose family has a house on Maui, and Tiff has known this girl, Donna's daughter, since she was a teenager. Tell it. I don't know what to say. She just is a darling girl. I knew her when we were young women.
SPEAKER_00:That's a church group for girls 12 to 18, for those of you who aren't familiar. Yeah, thank
SPEAKER_01:you. Sorry. That family has just been in our ward also, which is church-related. I've been friends with them and with Donna and just gotten to know her a lot better. Donna called me one evening. Was I done with chemo? I was not done with chemo. She called me one evening. She goes, This is going to sound really silly and you can say no if you want to. But Jessica just said, hey, do you think Lauren and Tiffany would want to come and stay in our house this summer? Because we're going to be gone traveling. And she goes, I almost told her no. Do
SPEAKER_00:you use
SPEAKER_01:me?
SPEAKER_00:You could have said yes on our behalf and we'd figure it out. Yeah. I
SPEAKER_01:almost said no, because you know, anyway, you're in the middle of chemo. I said, call Donna. Well, let me talk to Lauren. I think that was, that sounds really nice. So we talked to him like, well, yeah, of course we do. So, you know, we picked a date and told them, is this a, this is an okay date. And they're like, yeah, that's great. We're not going to be there. And here's all this stuff. And so, yeah, we just arrived in Maui and rented a, rented a car and yeah. Drove around and drove around the whole island. Yep. So many windy, tight drives. That was so fun. I love that. them yeah and the thing you know it was really good to get away from regular life and schedules and I mean as a piano teacher I live and die by my timer like I'm always looking at the clock I always have a really good sense of what 30 minutes feels like and what 45 minutes feels like um and these seven days I did not care one bit what time it was at all didn't even think about it not once oh I'm not I'm sleeping so I'm not done sleeping I felt really right are you ready to eat let's eat let's go eat hey let's do it and yeah and we just it was fun you know their house is like right on the water so we like outside their backyard and then you kind of there's like a rock wall and you kind of go over to the left and then you're down at the beach wow I know it was so nice well and uh Oh, what was I thinking? I just pictured the beach and I lost everything else that I was thinking. Oh yeah. Oh, I spent very little time in clothing that wasn't necessary. So yeah, my bucket list item is just skinny dip and lots of, lots of water, lots of major bodies. So Pacific ocean check. Yeah. One day we were on the beach and we were like, Hey, there's nobody here. There's nobody on the beach. we can just take our swimsuits off. So we totally did. Yep.
SPEAKER_00:See, and I was wondering whether or not to bring that up because full disclosure, I knew this before, but I appreciate that you guys did. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I remembered what I was going to say. We wanted to take the, you know, there are so many beautiful things on the island, of course. And we wanted to see a wide variety of things. And so we were going to hike to a crater. It was not a long hike. It was one mile, just downhill a little bit to the crater. And then you hike back up. And yeah. Tiff works out. She's in great shape, but on the way back up, it wasn't even a very steep one, but like she was worn out. And like, it felt like an idiot, like, Oh my gosh, why didn't I know this? But I just, yeah, I had been more treadmilling with my mom and doing, you know, working out and, I, it took us so long to get up. And I was like, I'm so sorry. I have to stop again. I'm so sorry. I have to stop again. This guy that had been like down at the crater with us and should he chat to us and blah, blah, blah. He passed us on the way. And, you know, he's up at the parking lot and he's like, it only took me 20 minutes to get back up. And I was like, mm-hmm. Did your body beat cancer?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's my thing. Oh, so the last time you beat cancers, how did you do after that?
SPEAKER_01:Were you in, you know, on the 12th week of chemo four months ago? Oh, you weren't? Okay. Good for you, sir. He was just, he was, he was fine. He was just a little too talky-talky where I just wanted to look at the clouds and the rainbows.
SPEAKER_00:Shh, sir.
UNKNOWN:Shh.
SPEAKER_00:We're having a moment with nature, with our mother, Mother Earth.
SPEAKER_01:If you could please stop talking about all the states and continents you've visited. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00:We're just going to call him Topper, because he had to top everything you were doing. That is very much
SPEAKER_01:what it was like. And also, one of my favorite things Tiff said when we were in Hawaii, and of course in swimsuits, was What did you say? Oh, we were walking up after the beach just in our swimsuits, and we were talking about how we were kind of jiggling. Jiggling, jiggling, jiggling. Jiggling, jiggling, jiggling. My body beat cancer. I could give a, if it jiggles, I did. I said, give a shit.
SPEAKER_00:I love that though. Cause here's the deal. Here's the deal. That whole form over function thing that follows us as women and not just women, men too, but follows us so much through our twenties and thirties. I focus on what my body can do now. And, and I sometimes feel myself getting sucked into this, like our daughter's getting married next week. So I was trying to find a dress that fits and things that fit the top half of my body because of the way it's arranged. Let's say things that fit the top half of my body are built for people like that. They hang like a, like a burlap sack on you and, And I have a relatively small waist, so I need things that are fitted. So I need to get something tailored, whatever else. And the wedding miracle was this, you know, that East Shakti website. So Taya had had a dress made for prom from them that turned out really well. And I thought, well, last ditch, because I've ordered all kinds of dresses, tried them on and returned them. I had one from Land's End. I'm like, well, that'll kind of work. If I can't find anything else, it's the right color. Because it had to be one of these few greens and whatever else. The wedding miracle is that the dress that was in India on... wednesday and italy on friday and wasn't due to arrive till after we left arrived here yesterday and fits and fits beautifully and is the right color
SPEAKER_01:yeah yes
SPEAKER_00:yeah and it's like i've still got you know four kid hips and a body that's been opened up the front all except for like a six inch swath but but i think there's what say that there's time you got six inches left there's time i know someone said that i'm like But I had this moment because we're having to make all these different COVID workarounds and whatever to be able to see people and what was going to be at our home is now going to be in the backyard and
SPEAKER_02:probably
SPEAKER_00:going to serve cake and to-go boxes because we have to be safe and numbers here are skyrocketing. So I'm doing all this and we were talking about it. She said, I'm glad we get to do this. She's trying very hard to make it a great experience for everybody. She's worked really hard to do that. And I call her back and I said, I started crying. I said, Tay, three years ago, we didn't know if I'd be at your wedding, if I'd be there when you got married. So the rest of this is all just details. No big deal. And I feel like that about my body too. It's like, we're going to go take a hike after this. And I've only been able to do that hike without stopping once. And it's well, once in the middle, it's a mile up and a mile down and it's a pretty good incline. And we're dealing with elevation and we're dealing with we're dealing with incline, which, you know, Florida. Yeah, there is none, but I'm doing it. And I had this moment. I actually want to put it on the blog for the website of just appreciating the it's not the same, but it's still good. You know what I mean? Like going to the crater, it's not the same, but it's totally worth doing, even though it's a hassle, even though I have to take medication with me, it's worth it.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, it still is worth it. And I just, I just think I'm so much more thankful for my body. Like, I just think, thank you, body. Like, You really, you helped me get through. And I'm so grateful for that. Like, yeah, it's not the same, but that's okay. I, I'm just grateful.
SPEAKER_00:I think that resilience, the fact that our bodies can go through these things and still function, not the same necessarily, but can still function and do things and live a good life and help other people and see new things. That's pretty frigging amazing to me.
SPEAKER_01:It is miraculous. It really is. And I'm just, yeah, kind of grateful for it.
SPEAKER_00:So any more trips planned?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, well.
SPEAKER_00:What?
SPEAKER_01:Yes, but we're talking about it because of the Iceland in October. We have tickets. Okay.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But, you know, do we want to do that? We'll see. It's getting a little scary COVID-wise with, you know, the way things are. Oh,
SPEAKER_00:Tiff, you should be able to get your booster because I got a letter from my oncologist. I got my booster. I just took it into the pharmacy. They had the same vaccine I had before, which was Moderna, and they gave me the shot.
SPEAKER_01:Nice. Okay. I'm going to ask her about that. I meant to ask on Wednesday when I went, but I didn't. So yeah, I will. I'm going to do that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, my nurse is great. Holly, she just did a letter, put it in my portal. I printed it out, took it to Safeway.
SPEAKER_01:Nice.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:I
SPEAKER_00:also got
SPEAKER_01:my vaccination at Safeway.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I mean, I have to fly back to Tampa in a little over a month and have a surgery and some other procedures or a procedure and some other scans and some consults. And so it's like, I wanted to have this well on board before we do that. And of course I'll be wearing an N95 mask and all those other things, which make travel so convenient, but the fact that, I want to do all I can to be safe and, you know, driving out to the wedding and I'm thinking, I hope we'll be okay. We've done what we can do. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And I mean, you can't, you can't not participate. Otherwise, what are we doing? Right. Anyway, apparently we're going to have to figure out how to live with this long-term because yeah, it's not going anywhere. I think. Yeah. I don't know. We'll see if we go to Iceland in October.
SPEAKER_00:We hope so. Well, Chris, I hope you do too. Our son Chris went four years ago, five years ago, maybe six. And he went in the winter too. He went in December. So if you're interested in like winter Iceland tips, let me know.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we have spent 24 hours there. We were there on a layover one time and just enough time to like sleep in a hotel and go to a hot spring and get refreshed before we went on our way for the rest of the vacation that was actually planned. But we liked it so much that we were like, oh, hey, look at this deal. Let's go there. Because there's so much to see and experience and look at and feel and, you know, northern lights and hot spring. Oh, yeah. about all of that. No. No. Yeah. I hope we get to do that. Cause I'm excited about that. That'd be fun too.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and what I love is like, this is like a bump in the road for you. It's like, okay, this is a bump and it's a bump. I didn't want to go over and I would have preferred a different route, but it's bumps, but I'm going on with my road.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I hope so too.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It feels that way anyway. Yeah. I don't have anything profound or awesome to say about it. I'm just grateful for my body. I didn't know cancer was in there. I'm grateful to still be alive and kicking and learning and doing. I don't know. I have found it interesting. we don't talk about cancer very much as a society other than general statements. Like you'll see people say cancer sucks and they give no other details about what, why they're saying that at that moment to that audience or in that venue or whatever it is. And yeah, it does. It sucks hard. It's bad. But being in the midst of it and having, um, you know, my friend to be bald, it's going to be, uh, something that, that is in conversation. Well, and it, you know, I had to tell all of my students at Christmas time, here's how we have to handle, um, our holiday performances because you can't come in my house. Tiff is immunocompromised and like, I can't have all of you and your families and everybody who would want to see you perform. Um, in our house, even though that made me weep every time I told them that until we figured out a solution. But because it was so visible, people who don't talk about it publicly would talk about it. And so like, it's so interesting to see how many people people have been personally touched by it. Because before you're in the club that nobody wants to be in, you don't know who's in the club. But when you're in the club that nobody wants to be in, people will tell you, oh, hey, I'm in that club. Oh, hey, my grandpa. Oh, hey, my mom. Oh, hey, my sister. Oh, hey, my cousin. And some people are in the club multiple times, like you're in the club multiple times. you personally, like you're the president or something. And also your family members, like you have experienced it from so many sides. And I mean, even since, even since Tiff finished her, do you want to talk about this? Like there's, well, other people have had cancer, like come back and people we love, we know and love. And so like, we get it more than we did, even though, even though before we were in this club that nobody wants to be in, you have, you, you care about people and you're sensitive to it. Yeah. Yeah. But having experienced it and people say something like, Oh, my cancer is back. It's, you know, more what a blow that means. Yeah.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's true.
SPEAKER_00:That's, that's a huge reason of why I'm doing this. And if people are like, Oh, you had two recurrences. I'm like, no, I had three different cancers because I'm an overachiever. So, you know, but I'm not dead yet, but I'm not dead yet. And it's been eight years since the first one.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And, and, you know, there are things that can happen, but I'm like, I was telling somebody the other day, because we were talking about, um, mRNA and the stuff for cancer and other things that they think will just be mind blowing. And I know that I have Keytruda in my back pocket because that would be the next step if something came back. And normally the cancer I had in my heart, sarcoma comes back in six to eight months. So the fact that I'm three years plus out is miraculous. And so if it does, we do Keytruda and we figure things out, but it's like, I, I had to, closing my eyes because i think better i had to um excuse me adjust my mindset to not be finished but to be maintenance yeah so that if or when something else happens it's like oh that's a big maintenance issue we got to take care of yeah and and it's hard it was hard that took me a long time it took me through the first cancer and partially through the second one, because the people closest to me, as Lauren well knows, who got significant cancers died, my sister, my dad, my friend, Valadia. So all the people closest to me who had, you know, not, and I don't want to say just skin cancer, because that can still be horribly traumatic, but who didn't have something like on the surface of their body, internal cancers, they all died. And it took me a while to get out of that waiting to die feeling It wasn't quite that, but you know what I mean? Waiting for the other shoe to drop. It's just like, we're just going to go live. And if stuff comes up, it's maintenance and we'll figure it out. And I told my doctors, I said, look, this is why I come here. I plan on being around a good long time. You guys are smart people with incredible ideas. And so you just figured out and we'll do it. We'll go from there. Yeah. Thank you for your years of study. Thank you. That will keep me alive. Right. I told him you guys saved my life.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, you really did. Yeah. Yeah. And I know we already hit this, but I keep thinking of it like I got to be here at home. And see Tiffany every day during the chemo, after the surgery, during the chemo, during the radiation, during the uptick in energy and the hair regrowth and the eyelash exodus and all of that. But I didn't get to meet her care team. Not really. That's so weird. There's this whole separate part that she had to do without any of her normal support system. I didn't get to go. Her mom didn't get to go. Her brothers didn't get to take her. None of us got to meet those people. I met with the oncologist and with the surgeon in the very beginning when she was allowed to take. Yeah, I think I did and your mom did. I think we both met both of those people. But then I don't know any of these other people. people who got to walk with Tiff on that part. Yeah. And that feels separate and weird.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Because they're so, for me, they're so integral. Like my kids met them and I also had to meet my kids. It's like, these are the people I'm staying alive for. They met Kev Mitt numerous times. I'm like, I like this husband. I want to be around with him after. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Of course. I know. Yeah. They're good people. They're just, yeah.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:All the nurses and they're just, well, I came in when my hair was growing. They're like, I love your hair. Look how good it looks. Like, well, thanks. Like they see you at your worst. And then they're like, so happy when you're doing better. Look.
SPEAKER_00:I think it takes a very, at least at my place, they hire for personality as well as skill. And you can tell that with the people who are there. They're amazing.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. Well, just, just good ladies. I really appreciate them.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. It's just, it's just good to see you. It's good to see your, um, your eyelashes part. I don't even know which, which incarnation this is, but you look good. You guys look happy. I'm so excited that you went to Hawaii. I just, I hope Iceland happens. Me too. Thank you. Me
SPEAKER_01:too. Yeah. well and whether it does or not all sorts of good things are next that's fine yeah good there are always good things coming that's true
SPEAKER_00:and that attitude is what gets you through this with your sanity intact
SPEAKER_01:that is the truth yeah if you can yeah focus on the good things even just the little tiny things they're kind of awesome that day that that definitely helps
SPEAKER_00:yeah yeah Oh, and real quickly before we go, the kindness book.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah. I knew that it was going to be like this big swirling cloud of what was that after you come through it. And so I did... I tried to, will you grab it? It's in the drawer. I tried to capture all the beautiful things that people did for us during that time. So here's a little notebook on the first page is like, here's some appointments that went to, and then some thoughts, but then also like here
SPEAKER_00:is, um, Oh, I love it. And she's got, she's got handwriting, but she's also got like wrappers from things or the cards people gave them that are book around these things. It's just so cool.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Tabs that came on flowers and just people bringing dinner and people, you know, I have like a little nine-year-old who was like, hey, how's your friend? You know, in piano lessons three weeks later, just like nice, nice, nice, lovely stuff. Look what that says. Oh, yeah. And here's some thoughts that Tiff wrote about chemo and then more kindnesses, more kindnesses, notes from flowers, more kindnesses, sticky notes that came on treats. So many. More notes. Like someone, someone brought soup, but she didn't have a good container. So literally there was soup in a Ziploc. I love that person. One of the kindest, most chaotic kind people. It was so great. So good. More thoughts from chemo, more kindnesses. So like, and actually I've got a couple of bullet lists in a note on my phone that I got to write in still. Yeah.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But that was like 15 pages of kindness. Just being able to focus on that and just feel like, oh, people are so good. Yeah. Yeah. It's really lovely. What a lovely thing. And it's also fun to flip through and see some of the same names happen once or twice or three times. Yeah. All the good, all the good things. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I like, I'm going to end with that. People are good and you guys are good people.
SPEAKER_01:I
SPEAKER_00:love you guys. Love you. Thanks. I'm really grateful to have Tiff and Lauren in my life. And I appreciate their example of looking for the good in other people and the good they can get out of circumstances, even when things are really, really hard. So glad Tiff is done with treatment and just on medication and doing great. And I love their perspective of looking forward and planning fun things to do in the future. As you go around the world this week, please look for opportunities to do something nice for somebody else that makes their life a little bit easier and count your blessings and make it a great week. Thanks for listening.