Life, Cancer, Etc.
Life, Cancer, Etc.
In the Thick of It with Kate
My sister, Kate, was diagnosed with invasive ductile carcinoma at the end of September. She's currently in the middle of chemo, awaiting surgery and radiation, and talks with us about what life's like right now for her, her husband, and their six kids.
Kate did a follow-up episode right after breast-cancer surgery. You can find it here: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1468990/episodes/10278542-graphic-content-advisory-right-after-breast-cancer-surgery-with-kate
NOTE: I am not a medical professional. Everyone on the "Life, Cancer, Etc." podcast is sharing their own experiences, not giving medical advice.
Photo © 2022 Kate JP
Content © 2022 Heidi Bragg
Keywords: breast cancer, invasive ductile carcinoma, breast cancer prognosis, chemo for breast cancer, mom with breast cancer, parenting with breast cancer, working during cancer treatment, breast cancer diagnosis
You can also find some episodes on our YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/LifeCancerEtc
I'm Heidi Bragg, and this is Life, Cancer, Etc. My goal with this podcast is to connect you with stories and resources that help you feel happier, more resilient, and less stressed, especially when you're going through hard times. Today, I'm talking with my sister, Kate. And even though I know A whole lot of the backstory here. I'm going to approach this like any other interview and we'll do the regular demographics at the beginning. And then Kate, could you launch into your story? Kate was, just as a quick side note, Kate was diagnosed with invasive ductal carcinoma grade two around the end of September. So she's new into this process and handling it like a champ.
SPEAKER_01:Yay, thanks. I just want to say that the only reason you know my background is because I'm the younger sister. Otherwise, it'd be, yeah, who are you again, and what was your life like before I came out? Anyway, yeah, it's funny. My name's Kate, honestly. I'm 41. I'm a middle school teacher. I live in Texas. I am married to Alex, who is English and an engineer and fabulous. And we have a family of six kids. We have five daughters and one son who are from high school, working backwards, high school to elementary age. And it dawned on me that I probably ought to tell you how Alex and I met because it is part of my wider cancer story as well. So in 2011, in April, I was pregnant with child number three, who was daughter, big surprise. And I was at church one day and after church we had, I'm a person of faith. Also, you'll hear me reference that throughout the interview. It's allowed. That's okay. But it's kind of shaped the way I see things for sure. So, so we were at church and I saw this little girl with tons of dark curly hair, I mean like scads of dark curly hair, giggling her head off in the cultural hall of our church. And I looked over and I thought, whose baby is that? I know everybody in this congregation and I don't know that baby. And I looked over and she's about 18 months old. And there was a man watching her who was just chuckling at her giggling. And I thought, well, that must be dad. So I walked over and I said, I don't believe we've met yet. Are you new? And, uh, in our ward, in our congregation. And, and he said, yes, we are. And immediately, um, I could tell that he was British and I studied English lit twice.
SPEAKER_03:So,
SPEAKER_01:uh, I thought, well, this would be fun. Um, and we sat and chatted and we just chatted easily for about the next half hour while everybody else there, um, packed up and all of that. And my family wasn't with me that day. Um, Can't remember why. But anyway, so he had his daughter there and he announced or let me know that he and his wife had just moved back from California. Her family was from this area in Texas and they had this 18 month old girl. And anyway, we became friends. family friends, his wife and I, and he and my ex-husband. And we would have, you know, cookouts at each other's house kind of a thing. And, uh, we, we'd go to dinner on double dates kind of, and, uh, and that sort of thing. And then.
SPEAKER_00:Wasn't your girl number two, not that much older than his curly headed daughter at the time?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. She's about a year older. So, um, very sadly. So that was 2011.
UNKNOWN:Um,
SPEAKER_01:By the end of 2012, Leanna and Alex had discovered that they were pregnant for the second time with miracle baby number two because they'd been married about 10 years before the first baby came along. But then she went in for an ultrasound, Leanna did, and the doctor noticed that something was not quite right. And so she was diagnosed with stage four colorectal cancer while... six months pregnant and made the very brave decision, I think, that she was not going to terminate the pregnancy. A, because she really didn't know at stage four and they couldn't tell her that it would improve her chances at all. But B, because she had waited a really long time to have baby number two come along. And I should say as well, at 32 weeks, Natalie was born. Thank you so much. Which is great. But yeah, eventually she passed away in 2015. And Alex, of course, was now a widower with a five and a half year old and a two and a half year old. And he is English, as I mentioned. And so he's a private person anyway. And had a, to say the least, rough upbringing. So as strong a person as he is and as... put together as he is. He's also very private about his emotions. So as you can imagine, when I was diagnosed, oh my goodness. I don't know if I want to use the term PTSD for my family exactly, but feelings. I think that's, don't you think that's a fair description? I think it is, but like just with respect for their privacy, they perhaps would define it differently. But my first thought was, how am I going to tell my husband? And it should be said, I guess, that he's quite a bit older than I am. And he was a bit older than Leanna. So the natural order of things being where they are, I guess, they always assumed that he would be the one to pass first because he's about 15 years older than she was. And he and I are 21 years apart. So, you know, I was extremely healthy when we got together. We've been married about five years. And then this hits me. And that for me was the hardest part, like the, the butt biting irony of the situation of having Alex, having lost one wife to cancer and then having another wife be diagnosed. And we live in a small town too. So like, I don't think the irony was lost on anyone else. But we have a very happy family and we're, coming up on our fifth anniversary, as I mentioned, next month. And so that was the hardest part, I think, for me, was having my bonus girl, who's my oldest stepdaughter, who remembers more of her mom, and having Alex both feel like, oh my gosh, it's happening again. Well,
SPEAKER_00:and it was interesting because the first time I called and talked to him after, I was like, okay, so how you doing? Cause this sucks on so many levels again. And he said, you know, he said, and he's Alex, but he also said, you know, when I talked with Kate, like I, he said, of course I looked, of course it's that, of course it throws back to that. But he said, when I looked up like 10 year long-term survival rates for this and where Kate was, it's virtually a hundred percent. Right. And that was not where Leanna was.
SPEAKER_01:No, she was at like 5% for three years and there wasn't a projection for five years.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And so he said, you know, that is not this. Right. And while a lot of it still feels the same, it's not the same,
SPEAKER_01:basically. Right. So that's been, it's been a blessing on so many levels to be able to have, of course, a different diagnosis and a different proposed outcome. different prognosis, I suppose. Um, but also, um, I have to say from the beginning, um, when, uh, okay. So number two says you're going to ask me, tell me your story. I'm already there. Sorry.
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah. No, no, no. This is just a, Those are just a guide for the conversation. Just keep talking.
SPEAKER_01:So since I was an adolescent, I've managed asthma and allergies and some chronic illness kind of things, which I have to sort of be careful of. I'm just missing some antibodies. It's a congenital thing. And most of the time with diet, exercise, and rest, I'm fine. But then a few years ago, I also was treated for some depression that was brought on by untreated anxiety. So I already had some worry about that kind of thing. And then COVID killed my self care. So, uh, so I gained some weight and, um, I mean, I had like at the time, 65 students online while I was trying to learn this online teaching platform in 2019 and my six kids at home trying to share two computers. And I was trying to get stuff done all day. What a joke. Anyway. Um, so, um, so in March of 2021, um, I've, I started a health program thanks to basically a friend who gave me a scholarship on one. And so by the time I went in, I'd lost about 25 pounds when I went in for my routine physical and my lady appointment, I guess we could just say the pap smear mammogram and all that in September of 2021. Um, I was working, we had insurance like, you know, three years before that wasn't the case. And so, um, so I really think it was a godly thing in the timing. It was God wink as my friends would say. Um, and then, um, so mammogram comes back, there's a spot on your left breast that we're not too sure about. And can you come in for a follow-up ultrasound? Um, Okay. So I go in and I have the ultrasound and they want to do the biopsy the same day. That's
SPEAKER_00:when you're like, you suck. And I guess we're going to have
SPEAKER_01:to do this. It's like jobs and you hear that. But the thing was, in order to make this afternoon appointment, it was the next town over. So I had pulled my high schooler and my two middle schoolers out, my own children, to be able to go with me to this appointment because it was so late in the day. So they're sitting in the waiting room and I'm like, and the whole cancer scenario with Leanna, Alex's late wife and everything, which our family is very familiar with, flashes through my mind. And I'm like, holy cats, how am I going to keep this from my girls? Because I know they're going to ask questions. And now I'm going to have like some sort of a, I don't know, injury on that side. Or like, I didn't even know about biopsy or whatever. And
SPEAKER_00:so... So let me, let me stop you right there real quickly. So for those of you who aren't familiar, Oh no, you're fine. I just want to give a little backstory. So Kate and I lost our sister Mindy to cancer about 30 years ago to a brain tumor and anaplastic astrocytoma for those of you playing at home. And then we lost our father. Has it been six years? It's been six years, right? Since dad died. Yeah. So about six years ago, we lost our father to cancer as well. And I also lost a dear friend to cancer. Kate, lost Leanna and Alex lost Leanna. So I think, I don't know how to quite articulate this, but something that happens when you, for me, at least when I got diagnosed with the first cancer, it was all the people closest to me who've been diagnosed with cancer have died.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:The people that I have the most close primary visceral contact with, they all died. And I think that's, that's, Anytime you get a cancer diagnosis, it's a punch in the gut. But having that history behind you makes it even more poignant and weighted when you've got your children in the waiting room.
SPEAKER_01:Sure. It's super profound at that point. And I would just say our family is well-versed in cancer loss. I don't know if that... That's a really good
SPEAKER_00:way
SPEAKER_01:of putting it. We get it, whether it's my and your immediate family or my husband and his biological children or my bonus kids or whatever. So I thought, and one of those daughters was with me when I got the biopsy and everything for the first time.
SPEAKER_00:And you're doing all this math, this complicated equation in your head while you're trying to deal with your own health.
SPEAKER_01:Right. And so I'm sitting there literally while I'm in the gown lying down and I'm like, can you grab my phone? Because I had locked my personal clothes in a little closety locker room thing. And I'm like, oh, sure. And so I text my oldest daughter, who's my biological daughter, out in the reading room. And I'm like, we're going to have to reschedule your doctor's appointment for this afternoon because this test is running over. And I just didn't say anything else. Yeah, yeah. And so they,
SPEAKER_00:because until you know, what's the point.
SPEAKER_01:Right. And, um, and I had thought that before and Alex and I had actually said that to each other. Cause I was like, well, what do we tell the kids? He's like, right now we don't tell them anything because we don't know anything.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And I was like, okay. Um, that sounds like a good plan, but then I don't know about you, but sitting with that event. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But sitting with that over that however long period while I was waiting for the biopsy, I think it was a week the first time. was it's excruciating because you're trying to be upbeat, regular mom for your kids. And I swear they can feel it because you're off.
SPEAKER_01:Yes,
SPEAKER_00:you are
SPEAKER_01:for sure. And I don't know that they thought I was being fake or anything like that, but they just knew something was going on. My kids who are more perceptive, I should say, and they feel it. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It knew that something was a little off and that we weren't having all the details. And I just said, well, you know, she said they're doing some medical tests and stuff like that. And so we're, you know, I don't know anything yet. I wish I could tell you. I don't, I don't know what to say and I don't have anything to say. So anyway, long story short, they do the thing where they like shoot the gauge needle into the side of you after numbing you up. And they do that like core biopsy. Yeah. Core biopsy. Yeah. Gosh, awful thing. Anyway, and told me I did a great job, which they probably say to everyone. And I left. I don't know what that means. Damned with faint praise. Yes. I was like, I left with an ice pack under my arm, right? Because it was from the side of my breast. And my kids are like, what the heck's wrong with you? You know, as I leave the thing and I'm like, oh, I just had to take like a sample, whatever. And so, um, but I'm like driving home trying to get this thing on under the seatbelt. Anyway, ridiculous. And then one of my girls who's super perceptive is like, mom, you're okay. Right. And
SPEAKER_00:I'm like, which, which girl just number for me,
SPEAKER_01:girl, number two. I knew it. And, uh, and I said, um, that's what we're checking out. And she's like, but you'll be okay. Right. And I'm like, yeah, I think I will. And so I don't know. Um, so back up a little bit, but faith wise as well, uh, there's a lot to process with religion when there's a lot to process with death and illness and such. And so, uh, I had a lot of practice with that, you know, having lost a sister at 12 and then now I'm in my forties, but, um, and then this experience.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Kate's 12 years younger than I am.
SPEAKER_01:She was
SPEAKER_00:still. Yeah. No, you're not. Pretty sure I am. You were born in 84, correct? I was born in 80. Oh, no, no. Sorry, sorry, sorry. You were born in 80. No, 12. Okay. I'm 68. Yeah. Don't make me older than I am, Kate. You're not 68, you're 58. No, I was born in 68. Oh.
SPEAKER_01:I'm not 58.
SPEAKER_03:Dang.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, anyway, I was like, I did the math yesterday and I thought it was 13, but anyway. Yeah, so there's a 17-year spread between you, the oldest sibling, and our brother who
SPEAKER_00:is- Yeah, 16 and a half, almost 17, correct.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so I figured we're about 13 years apart, but anyway, so- 12. 12. 12. And anyway- But I had known that I was going in for these tests. And in our faith, you know, you can ask for a blessing of peace and to be administered by someone in our faith. And so my husband, as well as two of our local missionaries who are just... really young, they're like 19, 20, um, had given me a blessing and they, they'd given me, and I'd known these guys for a while. One of them had served in our area for about eight months and they'd come over often and have dinner with our family and stuff. And, um, they'd given me a blessing that I would have peace throughout the process, but that there would be a process involved. And so, and this was like, Hmm. me three or four days before I went in the actual test. The test was on a Friday. And I remember calling you and saying, Oh, did they do the test on the Friday? I hate it when they do that. Cause then you have to walk up, they wait over the weekend. And I'm like, I didn't even know that was a thing. Like, you know, just we're so in the different, our different, um, you know, you're in cancer, like five Oh five and I'm cancer like one Oh one.
SPEAKER_00:So I think you're definitely a 200 level.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, thanks. Um, yeah. Software. Anyway. So, uh, yeah. So I was diagnosed with IDC at the end of that month, which is the 29th of September. And then, um, I went back and was, did some consulting with, uh, a breast surgeon about two hours away from where we live. And, uh, she told me kind of what my options were after looking at my scans and things and wanted that they wanted another MRI. And, um, Yeah. So I would just say too, that's the frustrating thing is feeling like you live this double life, whether it's with telling people the truth, which you're not even sure about yet what that is, or trying to schedule all these doctor's appointments around work. Cause I was still working and I work as a teacher. And so when I'm not there, not only do people know, but like somebody else has to cover my class, you know? So anyway, um, trying to live that double life and feel like I'm Batman, but not. You know? I do. I don't have a cape or any cool gadgets. What happened? Yeah. Anyway, so that was hard. But basically where I am now is in the third round of four chemo infusions, having just finished the third one. I have one more to go. I have an infusion, which takes several hours. through an IV bag basically every 21 days. And then once I get my last one, which is in January, later this month, I'll have a break for about two months. I'll have an oncoplastic lumpectomy, which is to say they'll do the plastic surgery on my breasts rather than a mastectomy, of course, where everything's taken out. They'll basically rebuild what's there with what's available, rebuild the other side to match. And, um, so I think lumpectomy like sounds like somebody's going in there with a melon baller. So this is way more,
SPEAKER_00:more invasive than a melon baller,
SPEAKER_01:you know, like, Oh look, we're done. You know? So, um, in fact, my surgeon and the first time I met her was like, Oh, have you ever thought about a breast lift? And I'm like, no, what is that? Cause I'm like the farthest person away from Botox. You can imagine just, you know, it's just not really me. So she's like, well, we go from this to this. And when I told my boss that at work, who I've known for a while now, she's like, man, I sure have. I thought, oh, okay. Anyway, I didn't know rest lifts were a thing.
SPEAKER_00:Well, if they're in there and they're doing something ridiculous that you have to get done, why not?
SPEAKER_01:Well, you're rebuilding your body. So I'll have surgery basically. I'll have another two-month break, and then I'll have radiation. But my thought at the time was– so by May– By graduation, I hope to have a clean bill of health. But my thought at the time was I really– I hated the feeling of hurry up and wait, hurry up and wait, hurry up and wait, which is sort of when you know everything is out of your hands because you'd like to get it all done right now. I'd like to go in and schedule all these doctor's appointments for the next two weeks, but they can't see me for another three, you know, or whatever it is. But– It's okay to pause. It's okay to take a breath. It's okay to deliberate and meditate and explore your options. And your treatment will be incremental and seem interminable. Mom calls sometimes and says, how are you doing? I'm like day four out from chemo. And for those who don't know, it hits you really bad between day three and day seven after you get an infusion. And I just have told her it's like a bad flu plush labor before childbirth without the reward of a baby at the end. You are literally counting the minutes and trying to do things to break up the monotony because in my case, at least, um, your vision's affected. So I can't read for pleasure like I normally would to distract myself or whatever. Um, I'm, I'm alternating between chills and fever, um, it's something that is in your blood. So your kidneys are flushing this out, you know, obviously working overtime. So I'm trying to drink a lot, which means I'm going to the restroom a lot. But also my kidneys hurt. So my lower back, it just gets really, really achy. It'll just have weird spasms. Like you have some sort of a weird muscle cramp and stuff. You just feel like a 90 year old. And, uh, I have this, I hope this isn't disrespectful to anyone, but I have this, uh, scarlet bathrobe my husband gave me for Christmas a few years ago. And now of course, I'm also, uh, I have a shaved head and I was like, I, I, in my, in my, you know, I get up and there's my mirror on the back of my bedroom wall as I'm going out to go to the But I haven't earned it. It's just the whole look has changed. But you really start asking yourself, particularly I think being a woman and having breast cancer, what is it that makes me me? It's not my hair. It's not my breast or the size of the cup or whatever. Because I'm like, I'm going to look like I have hips with like... prepubescent boy chest, you know, I worried about that a little bit, you know, and, and, uh, and then I thought, well, that's silly. Cause you know, I'm, I'm me and that's, I'm more, there's more to me than what my physical form looks like. And I knew that, but that's kind of, but you've got to embrace it. You do have to embrace it. And it is, it's a process of kind of deescalation from, oh my gosh, I'm going to lose fill in
SPEAKER_02:the
SPEAKER_01:blank,
SPEAKER_02:you know? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:If I'm going to lose my life, then I can deal with the rest of the stuff.
SPEAKER_00:Right. It's funny. I think I've mentioned this before. I asked my sarcoma specialist, my medical oncologist. So with this kind of chemo, am I going to lose my hair? Because I hear something. He goes, oh, no. he's, he's very low key and understated. He's like, Oh no, you will lose your hair. You will lose your hair. Like basically just like get that thought out of your head. So that's not something you're counting on. And, and so also didn't you, at one point they were going to do surgery sooner, but then they decided that it wasn't just a single tumor. It was a cluster that they needed to hit first.
SPEAKER_01:That's correct. So the surgeon sent me back for an MRI and a breast MRI, which I have to say is, Possibly one of the most uncomfortable things to have happen as an exam. I'm sure like, at least as a woman, I'm sure like prostate exam is worse, but you're sitting, you're laying prone. So think Superman upside down on this thing where these two squares are, where you obviously you do not have a gown on this part. And so your, your, your breasts is your breasts are resting through either square. And you're face down. Face down. And it's like for an hour. And luckily mine was in the morning. So I thought, well, I'll just fall asleep. So that was my plan. I put some, some music on my phone and just fell asleep. But every once in a while, they'd be like, oh, okay, this next scan is going to last seven minutes. I'm like, okay. But luckily I didn't move too much. So I think it came out okay. But they found out that instead of, I like to think of it as instead of one little spot, what happened was with my IDC, it was like, No, it's not just one house on the street. It's like there's a little neighborhood. And there's this cluster. And so then they had to do another
SPEAKER_02:biopsy.
SPEAKER_01:So it's invasive ductal cell, which means it starts in the milk ducts. And as it moves out into the rest of the breast, that's what makes it invasive. And so I had multiple invaders, I guess. And they did another biopsy. And sure enough... those were cancerous as well. And so she's like, so, so my surgeon basically sent me back to my oncologist who I'd met once and was like, yeah, we're going to have, we're going to need to start this now so that you can shrink before we go in and do surgery and things aren't growing until, you know, the time. Yeah. Yeah. Things out. So, and then the game kind of changed in my head. It was almost like, well, if I don't have to have chemo, then it's not really cancer.
SPEAKER_03:Like,
SPEAKER_01:I won't look like I'm having cancer treatment. I won't feel as bad. You know, I won't be as nauseous or whatever. And then when she said that, I was like, okay. So things became more real on a different level, I suppose. But I did want to say to folks who are tuning in, those listening at home, that if you can compartmentalize, if you can think of it as in phases within cancer, larger phases or layers or rungs on the ladder, their steps, um, it will help with the mental hurry up and wait that you can't do anything about. Um, I was reading a book recently and I think it was C stories by Bill McRaven, but he's an Admiral. He's the guy who did, you know, if you want to change the world, make your bed type thing. And I went back and listened to a bunch of his books on audio book. And one thing that got him through seal training, um, of which I think cancer is not dissimilar in a Because of what it does with your identity and mentally where it puts you and things. As he said, his instructor told him to focus on the next evolution. Focus on the next evolution. Don't think about what you're going to have to do at the end of the week. Don't think about a month from now. Don't worry about what's going to happen in six months or where you'll be. Just focus on the next evolution, which is a way of saying, I think, give your head time to breathe, and your heart time to process. Head time to breathe. Well, you know, mental bed. Yeah. And time to process and your body a chance to just sort of assimilate what you're being told, whether that's with medicine or phases in your nutrition, which I think is huge, or your treatment or having to shave your head or surgery, you know, those kinds of things. Before I went completely bald, I'd already had short hair. And which is funny because I teach in a middle school and ethnically, my students are very diverse. But also when you have short hair in some cultures, I've learned that people just like to call you bald headed. And I'm like, well, I'm not bald headed. I've got short hair. I grew this myself, you know. But then it turns out, oh, my gosh, I really am going to be bald headed. And so but I went to a one on the Clippers and was buzzed. uh, with the, you know, little sort of with the Clippers now that my husband is a one anyway. So we sort of matched and then my son wanted to join us as well. Um, which was really sweet. None of the girls took me up on it. Um, but, uh, I went, people
SPEAKER_00:offered, but I just told him, no, no, I'm fine.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Thank you. I know you love and support. I had a couple of people over, but not very many. They were like, Oh, we love you, but no. So, um, but then it starts falling out. And it's a one on the clippers, but it's still falling out. And you feel like either a mangy cat or one of those like hairless cats that something went wrong. And so I just thought, what am I doing this for? You know, I don't need to have hair. I've already proven that I don't need to. So one night I just decided I was going to when the kids were gone. I decided I was going to shave it myself. And so I got out the shaving cream and got on a new razor and shaved it and, and it looked great for like two days. And then like, I don't know, I got a bad rash afterwards and stuff. So from now on, I go to a lady who's a barber down the street who's been doing my hair and doing my edges for a long time since I had short hair. So I just go in and say, I need a touch-up. And she's like, okay. And she's very sweet and walked me through it.
SPEAKER_00:Didn't you say that because I used a lint roller to get the pieces out before my follicles got really sore? Oh, that's fair. Oh yeah. I thought I told you that. Sorry. I used a lint roller. You might've, but I had lots to process. No, no, no. I don't know that I did. And I had another friend who said, you know, I love that idea, but she said my follicles hurt too much.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Uh, by the time I had the, um, delayed, um, like, uh, razor burn, basically it was, uh, it looked awful and it felt awful. And, um, so I had talked to a doctor's office was like, well, we don't like to give more medication for that. So because you're already on a stuff. So here's some topical stuff. And plus, you can use coconut oil, whatever. And eventually it was fine. But I had to stay covered up. And yeah, which brings me to like, another point is that I would just like say, you set the tone for your treatment. Otherwise. So with your family members, with your colleagues, with my students, with my doctors, strangers, you know, it's okay. You sort of are going to be the person who lets them know whether or not you're comfortable talking about the obvious, which is I don't have hair. I'm not somebody who is ever going to wear a wig. A, I just, it's not me. B, I just thought it was really impractical, too, because my head hurt. I didn't want anything, you know, besides maybe a slouch beanie now, which sort of, as my husband says, looks more Eastern Bloc waif some days. And then my kids, because of the way that the beanie is, it's cut. Sometimes they tell me I look like Squidward from SpongeBob. So, but I can also be funny about it in class. And the kids who used to tease me about being bald headed before I ever had a cancer diagnosis are now like, they'll be roasted enough to where they know that it's a wink at them and not like, I'm feeling terrible that I have this problem. disease that, you know, nobody can do anything about. So the other day a girl came in and she was, she said something that was kind of sort of junior high level soap opera shocking. And I just said, Taylor, you scared me so bad. Look what you did. And I took off my hat and my hair was of course not there. She's like, that's just so mean. Um, but you know, I did tell my students, I was honest with them early on about what, What would happen once I knew what was going on? I'm going to be in and out. And you'll still have your things to do online. There will still be someone here who's subbing. I won't be here all the time, but I'll be here as often as I can. But I'm going to need you to step up. And that's really something to say to 12 and 13-year-olds, some of whom, because of the situations in which they live, have already stepped up. are helping to raise younger brothers and sisters, um, in the area in which I teach there's, we have like 80% intergenerational poverty, but some of them have never actually dealt with anybody with a chronic illness or, or anything like that. So they really don't know. So they, they had questions about what I lose my hair, you know, and all of that. And my own children too, telling my kids was the hardest part because I agree, you know, the, the, the, we call her Leanne, you know? Yeah. Because of that. And, And we did have to say, you know, this situation is not that situation. But either way, it made it okay for them to ask questions, which I think is super helpful for children. I don't believe in hiding things. Our family policy has always been one of, I hope, transparency that you can ask us about anything and we will tell you the truth about anything as much as we possibly can, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Because what they imagine is virtually always tons worse than the reality. And what point at what, what was the point at which you did talk to them? Where in the diagnosis? Yeah,
SPEAKER_01:sorry. I guess I have to back up a little. Uh, so I've gotten a positive, this couldn't have been more Hollywood scripted to create drama, but anyway, I had, so the 29th of September I had the diagnosis. It was a Wednesday. No, this is the diagnosis. Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. So it was a Wednesday, Friday. I'd gone for in for a biopsy, um, Wednesday morning during my first class, which happens to be with all boys. It's very small. There's like eight of them. Anyway, um, my phone rings and it says cancer center. And I'm like, oh shoot, I probably better take this one. So I answer it and the oncologist comes on and says at radio, radiology, oncology, something like that says, um, so here's what we have. It is positive for this. And I was like, pretty numb. And I just pulled out a post-it note out of my desk at school and said, could you repeat that please? And cause I'm writing it down cause I wanted to look it up and my husband's an engineer. So I knew he wanted, he would want to look it up too and do research and things. And, um, so, um, so I wrote down IDC and he spelled it for me and everything. And he said, so I said, what's the next step? He said, the next step is I'm letting your doctor know, and she will refer you to an oncologist. And I'm sorry about the result. And I said, well, I appreciate that. Thank you. And I hung up, and I was fine. I was at the back of my classroom where my big desk is, and then I have a stand-up desk where I teach at the front. And it was during silent reading, which we do every day in my class. And one of my fellas, my guys, was like, you goodness? Because he could tell. And I just said, well... well, crap, you know, which is about as expressive as I get. And, uh, I said, no, actually I've been diagnosed with breast cancer and I could have heard a pin drop,
SPEAKER_02:you know?
SPEAKER_01:And I said, so yeah, not the way I was hoping today would go fellas, but we got things to do. So off we go. And in about an hour later, it really hit. And I asked for, for a sub to come in because I just thought I cannot be here today. Yeah. Um, And I sent a screenshot of the post-it note that had invasive ductal carcinoma written on it.
SPEAKER_02:I remember.
SPEAKER_01:And said, you know, this is what we're looking at. And I'm coming home because I can't be here today. So, yeah. So that was 29th of September. So along goes October. I have consultations and stuff.
SPEAKER_00:So wait, so did you tell the kids that same day? So...
SPEAKER_01:We told them, so with the way our family works with visitation and stuff, we have four children who are gone every other weekend. And that was a Wednesday. And we weren't meeting with the oncologist. I finally got an appointment for that Friday. Somebody had canceled. And so I said to Alex, what do we do? What do we tell the kids? He said, we don't tell them anything until we've seen the oncologist because then they're going to set the path. They're like the quarterback. They're going to set the roadmap for your treatment with all these other doctors and things. And so I said, okay. So I didn't say anything until my kids had come back to our house on Monday night. We usually have family night anyway. And that's when we determined that we would tell everybody at the same time altogether.
UNKNOWN:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Did you have your bonus daughters that weekend too?
SPEAKER_01:Well, no, because they like to spend time with their grandmother on the weekends. Okay, so it's not
SPEAKER_00:like you had
SPEAKER_01:to hide it from
SPEAKER_00:them all weekend while the other four were gone.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, good. Again, with the whole don't be afraid to take a breath mentality, luckily we had time between the two of us to talk about what we wanted to do and how we wanted to say it over the weekend before Monday rolled around. And then on Monday we told our kids and they were nervous. Um, and, um, my oldest bonus daughter was visibly emotional and we said, you know, and I just came out and said, you know, um, here's where my diagnosis is. We're all fully familiar with where Leanna's diagnosis was, excuse me. Um, but this is a very different thing. And my numbers are between 90 and a hundred percent that it will, um, I'll be fine. I might look a little different. I will probably lose my hair, you know, and those kinds of things. It's going to take a while. It's not going to be overnight, but I'll be fine eventually. And I do have peace about it. And so we were able to talk to them and pray with them and just let them know that sincerely, we did feel everything would be fine, but that it would be, we didn't know what the daily landscape would look like, which is the hardest part, I think. And I said, yeah, And somebody said, oh, no, you must be going through hell. And I'm like, well, the trick is I don't know how much hell I'm going to have to go through on a day-to-day basis to be able to see the other side of this thing. And that uncertainty is what causes a lot of anxiety, I think. Because
SPEAKER_00:you have that vibe that it's going to– once you have that vibe that it's going to be okay, that helps a lot. Yeah. But you know it's going to
SPEAKER_01:suck
SPEAKER_00:in
SPEAKER_01:the
SPEAKER_00:meantime.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. It's how much of this– how much of this journey do I want to be public? How much do I want it to be private? Because, um, I'm, I'm somebody who'd rather be angry than, than sad. Um, so I've worked, I can't identify with that, but I've worked on that, you know, but, um, you know, it's easier for me to be, to lash out, which that said, I mean, I'm, you know, hopefully I've gotten over a lot of that, but, um, I did go through a divorce and all that sort of thing. So it's easier for me to be upset and, and reactive than it is for me to show weakness by crying,
SPEAKER_03:if
SPEAKER_01:that makes sense. In my head, that's kind of where it is. So the default is to just anger. But I didn't want to be angry, and I've worked for years now on not being angry. And
SPEAKER_00:feeling your feelings because there's no getting over.
SPEAKER_02:There's
SPEAKER_00:only getting through. And to get through,
SPEAKER_01:you've
SPEAKER_00:got to feel the bad feelings.
SPEAKER_01:That's where I am. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And in addition to that, I didn't want my husband or my daughter to feel like, or any of my children, but the two of them especially, who'd been through stuff with Leanna, to feel like they couldn't talk about it.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Or like I was offended if they brought it up or mentioned treatment or asked questions or processed my feeling. I knew Alex, he'd be fine with it, but I also knew he struggles internally more than externally. Right. You
SPEAKER_00:don't want to add unnecessary weight to what he's already going through.
SPEAKER_01:Sure. And so, you know, that I didn't want to be a burden on anyone, which sounds funny coming from somebody with cancer. But I did feel like, you know, the whole the stages of grief or loss or whatever, they're totally true in the case of the stages of grief or what your health was. So the denial and the anger and whichever comes first. And by the way, you move through those several times and sometimes you regress to step two and go back, miss a turn, all that kind of stuff. So it was sort of emotional candy land there for a while. But now that I know what to expect kind of with this part of my treatment, I know which days I'm not going to be able to be at school of the week that I have chemo or whatever. I know... when I'm not going to be able to drive because it affects your eyesight and, and all of that sort of stuff. And it just makes you feel wonky. So I've, I'm not somebody who's ever had like a, a drug induced experience, but I would imagine that when somebody is on an acid trip, that's when they probably shouldn't be driving, you know? And so, so three or four days after chemo, I just feel like I can drive if I have to. But I really, because it's so hard to concentrate, even just knowing where to make a turn to find my way home in my own neighborhood can be a challenge. Or remembering to watch for pedestrians, you know, or whatever. And I would never want to hurt anyone. So, you know. Or you just don't do it. Yeah. Yeah. I just don't go. Or, you know, I do DoorDash if I want a sandwich or whatever. Rather than feeling like, no, I can go. I can make it. I've learned to say just... Unless it's an emergency, truly, it's just not worth the worry.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. No, it makes sense. So let's talk about the next thing is things you wish you'd known ahead of time.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Okay. So I've already talked about a couple of those, like setting the tone for things. how people are going to treat you. Um, but the other one I would say would be to practice the self care rituals that make you feel normal, even if you can't do the whole thing. So if you're used to running and I was at this point, um, I can still walk, I can pray. Um, I can read or if my eyesight's off, I can listen to audio books. Um, I can listen to music. I still have most days. I have my Fitbit on, um, to be able to, um, Just tell me how many steps I've been, even if I've only been on trips to the restroom. And it's important, I think, to have ways that you're progressing and building meaningful habits outside of the things that you can't control. So I can still do Duolingo lessons as I'm trying to improve my Spanish and my French and whatever. Silly things like I made it through all... nine, uh, series of call, uh, series, whatever they are, seasons of, uh, call the midwife on, you know, and it was something that I enjoyed, but also like, I felt, Oh, look, look, I'm making progress. We're on season four, you know? So little things like that. And then, um, tips and tricks I think would be for me, I'm not somebody who wants to know everything about everything that could be going on. You know, these days, if you Google sneezing, they'll tell you you're going to die. So I never wanted to get the wrong amount of health information.
SPEAKER_00:You know me, and I'm a voracious researcher.
SPEAKER_01:You're the opposite.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. No, no, no. But when I got diagnosed with that cardiac sarcoma, I didn't. I'm like, it's rare. Nobody has it in the US this year, not where I do. And anything I find is going to be alarming. So... I'm just going to wait and talk to a variety of physicians that specialize in this and give what they say a gut check and pray about it and then move forward. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I would say, uh, for me, one thing that helps was to try to avoid information overwhelm. And I, Alex and I had a talk at one point and he said, so I researched this a bit and I said, well, How much is a bit? Because, you know, I know my husband's Alex and he's, uh, you know, and he, he, he is, um, he's sort of understated by nature and he's like, I got about a hundred hours into it. I was like, okay, so I'm fine with whatever you say. filter and want to pass on to me that you feel like will be helpful. Cause I don't want us to feel like we can't talk about it, but am I interested in getting online and finding out everything I can? No, I'm really not. My life's already very full of things to worry about. And so, um, I wanted to avoid the information overwhelm. And then it was interesting because the first day I went in for chemo, there was a nurse there. Her name is Jen who had the exact same cancer. Um, several factors were a little different, but was also a young woman, you know, and I would look around the waiting room in the cancer center. And there are all these folks who are not in my demographic. They're, you know, well,
SPEAKER_00:same. And I'm 12 years older than you. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Holy cats. Like what's, you know, but she, she had had it and she'd had it like a year before. So her treatment and her progression was not that far out from where I was.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And she just looked me down in the eyes on the first day and she said, you will look back and this will be something that you went through, but it won't define your whole life. Yep. And for some reason, hearing it from her who had started working at the cancer center, like two weeks before she was diagnosed, um, you know, uh, that really helped me a lot. And so I'll, I'll look for her and I'll be like, is this normal? And she'll, you know, she'll give me tips and stuff. So if you have one person that you can connect with that you, you, uh, have gone through, uh, or has gone through something similar, I would say that that's a whole lot more helpful, whether that's through a local support group or church or whatever. Cause I had people offering to tell me their story and truly I would be just like, no thanks. But I was like, I just didn't return the call.
SPEAKER_00:No, but my person like that was Becky. She was a medical assistant at the cancer center who would clock out to do her radiation and then go back to work. And she had just literally just finished when I started my radiation treatments. Yeah. And having her there to be like, dude, it sucks. Or, yep, that's totally normal. You know, it was just, it was so nice to have somebody there who had, just like you're saying with Jen, just gone through it. Like literally. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I really appreciated that a lot. And then, um, I would say other things that like tips and tricks or help thing that things that worked. Um, I would say just as you set the tone with how people are going to treat you, um, I would say let people be determined ahead of time, how you're going to let people help you in a focused way, whether that is, um, Uh, through meal train signups or GoFundMe or, uh, yes, I need my kids to be dropped off and picked up from school or whatever. You feel like you're a little bit more in charge of the faith because everybody will
SPEAKER_03:offer,
SPEAKER_01:um, you know, if you have friends and neighbors and things, hopefully you do. Um, but to be able to say, oh yeah, I do actually have this way in which you can help. that I've already thought about, then people are like, Oh, okay. Like it's, it's easier on them. It's easier on you. I'm not the kind of person who's going to let the world come in and clean my house or fold laundry or whatever. And so, um, It's nice to be able to determine that early on. And you helped with that as well with the GoFundMe because I was like, I don't want to take anybody's money. And they're like, well, people who are far away want to help and they don't know how to help. So that was lovely. It's been super helpful. I would
SPEAKER_00:also say... Can I ask you one thing about that first? Yeah. So I... and I always advise people who want to help. It's like, pick a couple of things that you're willing to do and give people those two options and say, I could bring you dinner or I can, you know, take your dog to the groomer. Which of those would either of those be helpful? I like what you said too, though, where you had pre thought out things you needed. So when people said, what can I do? You're like, and give them a couple options. I need dinner picked up or kids, you know? Yeah. I like that.
SPEAKER_01:It's, it's empowering for the person who, is diagnosed, but also I think for folks who are trying to help And then I had folks I could just call. They'd be like, call me for anything. I said, okay, well, they said call them for anything. And I'm sick as a dog and can't drive, so I need popsicles. And my friend was like, I'll be there in 20 minutes. Isn't that nice? They took me a picture of the ice cream cooler at the HEV grocery store here in town. It's like, okay, which row, which shelf, which ones are we thinking of? Anyway.
SPEAKER_00:People are just so good. I know we hear a lot, and people who are bad are publicized or who make bad. choices. That's publicized a lot, but when you get down into the trenches with this stuff, you realize how many really awesome, wonderful people there are in the world.
SPEAKER_01:There are. I've received gifts as far as stuff like blankets and things because in chemo and that, you're always cold and most folks know that, so I wear layers, but I've received hats. I've received money from folks I didn't know who heard about us or saw our story or whatever or who knew my siblings and they were connected with a charity or something. And so our name came up and it's been, you know, it's, it's been such a blessing to have that. So people are truly, truly kind. And, uh, you know, my colleagues at work, I mean, I work with about 150 faculty and staff total. And so we don't all know each other super well or anything like that, but I've been there about three years and, uh, people I barely knew that I just said hello to in the hall and um, you know, have been like, I'm praying for you and dropped off little books and gifts and, you know, um, gum for my classroom so that I'll stay awake, you know, things like that. Um, so it's been wonderful as far as more practical stuff, I would say, uh, for folks listening who have to do the chemo thing, get the med port because it's going to absolutely save your day. Um, So when I would go in to get infusions, I would see people who were, you know, they were trying to find a vein every time this poor person went in to get chemo. And if you have the MedPort, I don't know if folks know what the MedPort is, but it's just under your skin. It's a little device. It sounds like very James Bond, but they can insert it under your skin and by your collarbone. And they can take blood from that. They can put your infusion in there. Basically, it can accept a needle more easily than a vein.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and one of the ones I had tends to collapse veins. It messes with them. So that's why I got mine. And mine's out. Did I show you? There's my scar. It's like nothing now. I
SPEAKER_01:was going to say, yeah, and Jen had that. My friend, Nurse Jen, had her removed. And I was like, well, that didn't look too bad.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But I was really glad I did it. It saves a lot of hassle. I've had some pain in my veins, like some bruising and stuff, but not anything near what people would have. And I would have, there'd be people who went in, didn't get the med for it, did two cycles of chemo, their veins have collapsed and they end up getting it anyway. So I was really glad that I was counseled early on to get the med for it. And my husband was behind that decision as well. Other practical things, buy a bigger heating pad because you're going to ache. Or like maybe an electric blanket that you can control really closely. I found myself trying to like strategically position this washcloth size thing, which really didn't work because I heard everywhere.
SPEAKER_00:A friend got me a corn bag. It was a nice big like that. And it was awesome because it contours to the shape of your body. Perfect. So it's great. I love
SPEAKER_01:that. And I've had our aunt has... 2d sent me a lot of we have an aunt to your real name's eileen nobody calls it that anyway um um both our annies adds 2d and wheat whose real name is not we either um eugenia laurie yeah laurie so they have we're southerners can you tell anyway everybody's got we call my son bubba everybody's got somebody anyway so um they both have like sent sent little things and to help with uh with treatment and stuff. That's been really sweet. I would say I am not somebody who's taken a lot of medication because I've had things like asthma and stuff to manage where I had to take a certain amount of medication. They give you all this stuff for chemo. If you're nauseous, here's two different things you can try and all that kind of thing. I really was against taking a lot of that, but then I realized if I took nausea meds on days when it was just hellish and I was counting the minutes and I was taking a shower or a bath like every four hours just to break up the monotony and kind of give my body a break. Um, I could take nausea meds in order to sleep through the roughest days, um, because Zofran, that's what it does. You're either awake with nausea or you take the Zofran and, um, you're out cold, but at least you're not nauseous, but you are sleeping. So, um, so that's a coping mechanism as well. Um, and totally okay. I would say to have a designated driver when you're coming home from chemo, but also in those few days after chemo.
SPEAKER_00:Don't
SPEAKER_01:drive yourself to chemo if you
SPEAKER_00:can help it, P.S.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I wouldn't. I felt fine coming home, but you just never know from one treatment to the next what your reaction is going to be.
SPEAKER_00:So our friend Mark was like, and he's a tough guy anyway, and he's like, you know what, that's fine. I can drive myself. So he drove himself, got chemo, started driving home, pulled over, vomit, vomit, vomit, vomit, vomit, vomit. It was close so he could get back in the car and drive home. But he's like, yeah, I had a driver from then on. It's just like, if you, if you aren't required to push it, why push it? Be kinder to yourself than you think you need to be.
SPEAKER_01:I would say that's true too, with taking days off or whatever. And luckily with our, um, family history with cancer. I had already called a few people before I went into chemo and said like, what helped you the most or what was a good idea? And so I'd already stacked it, stocked up on like amnesia bags and, um, Uh, the, and baby wipes, you know, cause you know, you're going to tell me he's going to be off and all of that. And my husband said, remember, you need to just go out on a limb and buy the Gucci kind of wipes, you know, being like, what are the, which ones are the Gucci wipes to have on hand? So that just something would be more comfortable. Um, I would say to also, uh, chemo brain is a thing. It will be as, I mean, I've had four children, uh, that I gave birth to. And so, um, it's as difficult as newborn mom brain. Um, and you feel, and you're sick. And so, yeah, cause you're not really sleeping. I remember at one point I've had a really tough time with migraines and before I figured out that, Oh, excedrin migraine helps with that. Um, it was like, it hurt to lay my head on the pillow. Yeah. How stupid does that sound? You know? But it did. I just, it was, um, unbearable. And it was like migraines with aura kind of a thing. And do you still get them? Uh, yeah, I fight, I fight them pretty
SPEAKER_00:regularly. I got it. I'll have to tell you about this thing. It's called cephaly C E F A L Y. It's like a tens unit for your head. And it has, I've had it for five years. I haven't realized you were doing that. Sorry, but it changed. It has changed things for me dramatically. I'll send you a picture of it later and I'll put, actually I'll put a link to it down in the notes for the episode as well.
SPEAKER_01:Good deal. I'll take a look. I'll also say including nutrition in your treatment, which is something that you had turned me on to. Turns out we always have a cousin. We have a cousin who is getting a master's through Harvard on functional nutrition, I believe it is. She's a dietician. And so she was able to help me with some things. And basically, even on days when I don't feel like eating anything, Um, there are some supplements like protein shake type stuff, but more specialized that I can take to where I know, like, at least I'm getting nutrition. Cause the crazy thing is about chemo. Like you feel terrible. I'm not necessarily always nauseous, but your body is burning through calories. Right. You are running a marathon. Right. Well, you have to stay hydrated more than you normally would. You have to
SPEAKER_00:continue your electrolyte balance in place. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01:So if you can do, and I don't do a lot of dairy because my stomach anyway. So if you can do, I found, you know, the silk almond milk. They're not paying me to say this, but dark chocolate shakes that are like nine grams of protein and it's eight ounces. Like I can make that. I can manage that. Or Gatorade or a combination of two or like a favorite salty chip that I have or whatever. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Just something to get calories in. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. And, and, you know, cause I felt bad. I just, I'd lost all this weight and I'd been in great shape when I was diagnosed and I could not have been healthier. And I'm convinced too, that that had a key in my diagnosis because obviously I had lost body mass and the, the mass that they found in, in, in the mammogram was so, so very small. I mean, it's like half a, it was started out at like half a centimeter was the original one that they saw. Did you feel it at all? I could feel it later. Yeah. I realized I could, but it's not, if I had been, you know, 20 pounds heavier, 30 pounds heavier, I'm not even sure they would have been able to see it. So that's just a thought that I had, but I would say, um, so nutrition, think about that, but be honest with yourself. And if you're feeling like total garbage, just eat something. It doesn't matter. It can be
SPEAKER_00:candy. The dietician told me that at the cancer center, because I'm like, well, I don't want to do anything that's feeding the cancer. And she goes, Heidi, during this part of treatment, just calories, whatever sounds good. And Tay told us with Quinn too. I don't know if you remember one of the times they came over. She's like, cause I had made whatever I'd made. And she's like, all he can eat right now is hot dogs and boiled eggs. So I brought a pack of hot dogs and that was it. But that was his cat. Those were his calories for the day, which was better than no calories at all.
SPEAKER_01:Right, which will really kind of mess you up and hurt you much worse. And being dehydrated is even worse too. I would say another thing that you mentioned early on, especially for children but for everybody, was to have somebody your kids can talk to who's not you about a difficult situation. So a counselor or a therapist or a trusted friend or a combination thereof has been key. My son just turned eight, and he struggles with– and I think some learning differences that have not been quite diagnosed just yet. We're still getting a better picture of that. But Mama is his favorite person. That's me. And since Mama is sick, that has... unhinged things for him a bit at school as well. And it's not like he didn't struggle before, but we were seeing more acting out and things like that. And so we were able to locally find an organization. Actually, the school suggested it once I'd asked the counselor about it. That comes in, will counsel with us as a family, but also will go to the school and talk to him individually like once every two weeks just to check in with this really wonderful lady. Awesome. And she's also seeing our other two girls who are elementary school age who go to the school as well. And so it just helps to have them kind of have a monitor, I guess, or like a touchstone or a sounding board. Sounding board, yeah. Not you because, A, you're already– preoccupied with lots of stuff you'd rather not. But
SPEAKER_00:even little kids don't feel like they can say everything they think when they're worried about you.
SPEAKER_01:That's the other thing. And so, because eventually, you know, I have had the question, Mama, is your hair going to ever come back? Or Mama, you know, I did have somebody say, Mama, are you going to die? And I said, No, I'm not going to die. God's told me I've got lots to do. And, uh, and I'd had that piece, thank goodness. And I really do feel like that is the case. Um, and in looking at the other folks at the, and I want to tell folks like that, that is something that you can have, you know? Um, and that is a real thing. And it is sometimes the thing that you cling to the most. Um, for me anyway, I, I had had a blessing years before that said that I would have a long life, but that I would have medical challenges and that with faith and, um, and making good decisions and trying to keep my health and also just, you know, the grace of God that I would be okay. And so I've, I've held to that and it's made a huge difference. And I've actually, I told that to my kids when I originally told them, we told them about our diagnosis, my husband and I told him, and I said, so I'm not worried because this is what I have. I have this promise and I have this faith and, and it's made a difference for me before and when I had little health things come up or whatever, uh, or through childbirth, um, and things like that. It's made it, and it's making a difference for me now. So it's been wonderful, but I would say, yeah, the whole having a therapist for the family is, uh, is key and being generous and giving yourself breaks, uh, time off time out. Uh, I would say having a therapist for you and your significant other, your partner is probably a good idea as well, because if you have children, um, Um, it's a different sort of stress. And, um, my husband and I have always been open to counseling, but like, this is a different bear, you know, your color.
SPEAKER_00:So, um, well, and it's tools for your toolbox. Like, how do you know how to do this thing that you've never been through? You need somebody who can help you get those tools.
SPEAKER_01:Right. And I wouldn't, we, we use this all the time and we've said this to our kids as well, as we've, you know, had them, um, have therapy available to them and have people they can talk to. If you, um, if the plumbing went out in your house, you wouldn't feel bad about going to Lowe's and buying this particular tool that you didn't need before. And so therapy is like a toolbox. And no, Lowe's doesn't sponsor me either, but you can give me a call. Just kidding. Anyway, so yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Any other tips and tricks before we get to your bucket list items? Because you've covered a lot of good things.
SPEAKER_01:Thanks. I would say I always keep peppermint gum on hand, um, to perk me up when I'm driving and I need to stay awake or to fight nausea. I learned that when I was expecting children and that has helped a lot. My go-to is the, the Minto gum that will make your eyes water because it's so minty. I actually give it to my students in the middle of benchmark exams. And they're like, it's my eyes. And I'm like, it's working.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Anyway, it's great anyway. Um, but no, I think that's, I think that's about it. Just, it's okay to still figure out how you're going to do you. You're just doing you with cancer. So it's going to change it a little bit, but
SPEAKER_00:yeah, but you're still you.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And just that focusing on the next evolution, maybe the next 10 minutes is the next evolution, you know?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I like that whole, just do the next thing. Ideally do the next right thing, but just focus on the next thing. Right. And then when that's done, you'll have another one to do. It'll be fine.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely. And it involves bluebell cookies and cream ice cream. That's okay. Just get the calories. I was going to say, those are calories. Exactly. Okay. So your bucket list. So, yeah. So I'm a talker as we've already discovered. So I tried to consolidate these a little bit.
UNKNOWN:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Because I was having better health, I did something called the None to Run app over the summer just before I was diagnosed, which is fantastic. It's better than Couch to 5K. I wanted to be in better health, but I knew I needed something that was incremental. So the N2R None to Run app, I loved it. So now I'm like, okay, can I do that again? But can I walk fast during when like the 30 seconds pass? during week one or whatever when I was supposed to be jogging so um so I've been mine has been largely focused um on fitness um but I also want to be able to get out more so Texas has 89 uh state parks and I would like to see all of and spend a little bit of time at least hiking or something in all of the 89 state parks um that's my gateway drug and then um leading on to something bigger. I've read and thought a lot about a cross-country trip, like parts of the Appalachian Trail or Pacific Coast Trail. Ideally, doing a backpack thing across Europe once COVID's not a thing anymore. Longer term, Uh, wait, wait, wait,
SPEAKER_00:wait. And you know where we live, right? And you know how close it is to one of those trails. I'm just throwing that out there.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. I'll come in. I'll come and do laundry at your house. Anyway. Thank you. Yeah. Um, and then, um, I've also for about the last decade and a half, um, I was married before to a physician assistant and, um, well for 13 years, um, before Alex and I were married. And so, um, I had thought about nursing school, and I'm a teacher by trade. I have my master's in English and creative writing and stuff. But I really have thought more about nursing school. And my dream job, I think, would be doing some sort of refugee recovery or something, possibly as a nurse. I just want to be more equipped to help people. And as I'm sitting thinking about women's health and oncology and stuff, I remember late one night looking– I would say setting good goals to distract you is something that has been, has been helpful or at least exploring something different instead of, you know, Googling all your symptoms on the internet. That'll make you scared and worried anyway. Um, so temper that maybe with some things that you're interested in. And one of mine has been outdoor stuff and equipment and all of that. And, um, and Ooh, you know, this backpack looks cool and whatever. Um, but then I've also thought about nursing school and, uh, I've realized that, um, Oncology is one of the areas where nurses are needed the most. And one of the others is hospice care. And because of the history of illness in our family and loss and such, we've had experience with both of those fields. And I've thought, well, wouldn't that be something for me to be able to do that possibly down the road sometime? I like teaching. It's a good fit for now. I like being in the same district as my children. and kind of being able to see how things work, but at the same time, their, their lives are going to go on, you know, and, uh, and they're going to grow up and, and I'm going to be here to see them grow up and I'm going to decide what I want to do next when I grow up. Yeah. So, so there's that. Um, I'd say ultimately to live and work in a foreign country would be really cool, whether it's teaching or some humanitarian or missionary or service work. Fulbright actually offers scholarships for non-traditional, uh, Fulbright Scholars, which is cool. Oh, cool. I didn't know that. Yeah. And I've known about that for the last few years, and I was just like, you know, that's pretty cool. I would like to learn how to speak decent Spanish, like more than just, you know, where is the restroom type thing. How to sew, how to play guitar, which are things I've toyed with in the past but haven't really taken seriously. I'd like to... attend or organize more family reunions for our family because we're so spread out and having a text thread has made all the difference in the last few years I think since dad's passing in particular about you know kind of staying in touch with each other's lives and what we're working for and praying for and concerned about and giving and saying happy birthday and things like that and then I'd like to write a book I have a degree in creative writing as I mentioned and Um, as it happens, I'm crap at fiction. So nonfiction would probably be, uh, the best, like,
SPEAKER_00:I'm just thinking maybe we should collaborate on this stuff. Cause there's a lot of stuff around resilience and just normalizing this whole cancer process for people that really needs to be done. That's why I'm doing this thinking podcast.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I know. I was like, well, there's this. And, um, so I'm not sure if my mission is the same, but, even just with like how I met my husband and stuff and where we've been pretty miraculous. Right. Yeah. Like it's like, yes, we met at church, but aside from that, we grew up, you know, in different generations and, and, you know, thousands of miles apart and stuff. And so anyway, I don't know, but yeah, I would agree. I think there needs to be more of how normal people do this sort of thing, you know?
SPEAKER_00:you
SPEAKER_01:don't have a personal assistant or, or, or whatever, you know? Um,
SPEAKER_00:and that it's not always a tragedy even when it's hard. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely. Yeah. Sometimes I feel like, I don't want to say this in a goofy or like Hallmark moment way, but, um, I feel like me coming to work and smiling and saying good morning to people is like, helps me to be strengthened, but it also helps them to see that it's possible. And, uh, and when they ask how you, how you doing, how you feeling, uh, I'll be honest and I'll just say, I'm doing, I'm here, you know? And they're like, Oh, me too. Aren't you glad it's almost Friday? I'm like, yes. You know? And so we can have that moment of, I acknowledge that your struggle is different, but we're all still people, right? And struggles are always going to take a different form anyway, whether it's health or relationships or financial or whatever. So it's okay. It's okay. It's okay to reach out. I appreciate you, you know, affirming me, you know, just as a person. And it's really funny. So I have to tell you, sometimes at school, I don't wear my hat. Cause it's hot and it's not cold, uh, in the, in the building or whatever. And so I, I'll take it off. And sometimes students are looking at me who haven't seen me before. I'm on the first floor hall. So, you know, a lot of people pass through there. And, uh, I went down and took my kids to lunch one day and, um, this very sweet, very Texan, um, administrator that I have, uh, Mr. Thompson said, Oh, uh, and I said, I'm Jensen checking in for lunch. He's like, Oh yes, Ms. Jensen. I saw you down the hall. And I, I just looked at him and I said, you saw my bald head. And he was like, I wasn't going to say there was a glare, but he's like, I didn't want to say that, but, but it's really sweet, you know? And, uh, I love the one of the ways I learned in which I shouldn't drive. I remember all I had to do was get my two girls to school in the morning and Chick-fil-A was on the way, which they like to hit up for breakfast. And I almost never do that. So I was like, OK, I'm going to need you to remind me which way we turn in the drive through, you know, because it was just that. Like I'm taking it one step at a time. And, um, so I'm like, oh, and they'd start to talk about Marvel comic universe or whatever they did or Harry Potter or Percy Jackson or something. And I'm just be like, girls, now's not the time. And they'd be like, oh, sorry, mom, you know, but you know, kids and their attention spans. It was like every five minutes I'd have to remind them, you know? And so I drop off girl, uh, number two at gymnastics, uh, that she has in the morning for school. And then I am taking girl number one to high school and I'm over this bridge waiting to turn left, uh, And she goes, she looks at me and we haven't spoken in a few minutes. And I'm glad, I'm thankful because she's loquacious as I am. And she's like, what speed does time move at? I'm just like, I'm just trying to turn left. Today's not the day, sweetie. Yeah. I'm like, she's like, cause you know, like superheroes, like they go back in time and all this. I'm like, today is not the day. And she was, I was like, which way do I turn? She's like, Oh, left. So, you know, but it's, it's one of those things where you'll have like funny moments like that. Like in it, there can be joy and on you honestly in the middle. Yeah. Genuine. Like, Oh God, that didn't go how I thought, you know? Um, I remember going into my surgeon's office and they have, rather than having you wear like a gown that opens to the front or whatever. And these are breast specialists. Like, you know, this is what they do. Um, they have this thing that makes, that looks like the cone of shame, except for it's made out of material. So it's like a cape and then like you're covered, but like she can move to the side or whatever, like, you know, and I'm just, and mine had like daisy petals on it or something. And so I felt like I was like, this is, reject from the school play in about the third grade. And my husband was in the room as well. Obviously, we're real close. So he's there and he's been super supportive. And I was like, you're jealous of my cape, aren't you? He's like, you know, I want one.
SPEAKER_00:I know what to get him for Christmas.
SPEAKER_01:Right. There's just some genuine like, this is so bizarre. Nobody can make this stuff up. It's so true. Yeah. So it's really funny. And I did tell her, you know, this looks like a cone of shame. And she just started laughing. She's like, nobody's ever said that before. But We might rethink the gown situation in my office.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. Well, I'm pretty sure it's not where you were in the office with the cone of shame, but what's your favorite place to
SPEAKER_01:be? Favorite place to be is with my husband and also with my children. Although my husband and I like to sneak away, you know, when we can. Probably at home is my regular favorite place to be. If not, there's a place south of Corpus Christi, Texas called Mustang Island. There's a state park out there, which is just a beach. Beautiful. And at one end, and it's usually... Pretty quiet. And at one end of Mustang Island, which is about 12 miles long or something like that, at one end of it is a little town called Port Aransas. And it's just this perfect little, very small, very intimate beach town with like one major street. And it has an excellent restaurant or two or three there. Shout out to Tortuga and Coffee Waves with great gelato. But our kids have been there with us as well. We've made an effort to have more family time, not just since cancer, but since Alex and I have been together because we have kids who've been through death of a spouse or, excuse me, death of a parent or divorce and so on. So they know that we're real tightly knit together. And they need those connections. And I think really everybody needs that place. You can go and feel safe, but they love to go there. We love to go there as a couple. You know, and I always, we always have them like help clean up litter or something at the beach before they go play or whatever, but to try to make it feel like we're here for it to be responsible for everything. But there's a state aquarium nearby and our children love to explore. And we don't really do a lot of like screen time and stuff with our kids, but because we want them to have more, uh, we're, we're sort of experiences over stuff is what we've
SPEAKER_00:tried.
SPEAKER_01:Um, and with this, especially like, um, my daughter knitted me a hat for Christmas and it didn't really fit. Um, and, um, because it's a knitted cap, like there are holes in it. So you can so see my bald head in it. Um, so it really doesn't, I love that she did that or as an accessory. And I was like, it's a little small hand. She's like, Oh, maybe we should just give to this kid, but I've worn it a couple of times. And, and so sometimes stuff is important. Like that's a thing, right? It's an object.
SPEAKER_00:That's a thing that has meaning. It's not just a thing.
SPEAKER_01:Right. And I would say, uh, so for us, we want to have experiences too. And so, uh, and we're a family of eight, so that's not always easy, uh, with schedules and things like that. But, um, the more we make time and fight for, honestly, that family time, whether it's reading together in the evening or praying together or, um, you know, go into somebody's practice or game together or, uh, having dinner together every night that we're to get that we can physically all be home and a huge one. And, um, I'd say I feel blessed, proud is the wrong word, I suppose, but pleased that as a family and between my husband and I, we've been on the same page about what's going to be important in our marriage and our family because it takes a lot of the stress out of that. Now, you know, feeling like your time is even more compressed with needs for treatment and therapy and all that kind of stuff like that. we'd already predetermined that that was important. So those habits were in place and that was a really good foundation to start from.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I think you're wonderful and I love you very much. And I'm just,
SPEAKER_01:I think you're pretty amazing with your cardiac sarcoma recovery and Oh, the notorious Heidi Bragg. Oh gosh. As the doctors come up and shake your hand and you know,
SPEAKER_00:I did get that. I did get that comment the last time I was there. I'm not like Biggie Smalls, but you know, I did get notorious, but I just, I love it, Kate. And I'm just so proud of you and so proud of how you and Alex have dealt with this. And I think, thank you for being willing to do this and to, like I said, normalize it for people who are going through it. So I love you.
SPEAKER_01:I love you too. I'm excited. You're now living in a, in a new place that, you know, in love and I hope you're, okay with the weather and everything there. I've been worried about you through the snowstorms and such.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we're getting there. I love you.
SPEAKER_01:Love you too. Thanks.
SPEAKER_00:I love Kate very much and I'm really grateful she was willing to come talk with us. I'm thankful for her honesty and and for her grace under pressure and her willingness to share what's going on as she's dealing with some really hard things. This week, as you go around the world, please do something nice for somebody else. Count your blessings and make it a really great week. Thanks for listening.