Dentists Who Invest Podcast
Official Podcast of the Dentists Who Invest platform. Talking all things investing, money and finance with a dental spin. Have you ever wondered how you can grow your wealth and protect your hard earned money as a Dentist? We've got you covered. Featuring famous guests such as Andrew Craig, Edward Zuckerberg and Benyamin Ahmed we delve deep into EVERY aspect of finance to educate and empower ALL Dentists.
Dentists Who Invest Podcast
How I Built The MiSmile Network with Dr Sandeep Kumar
You can download your FREE report on how you can avoid financial mistakes as a dentist using the link just here >>> dentistswhoinvest.com/podcastreport
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What does it take to grow a single dental practice into a network of 150 clinics across multiple countries? Dr Sandeep Kumar shares his journey from a newly requalified dentist in the UK to the founder of one of the most recognized Invisalign-focused dental networks in Europe.
After qualifying in India and requalifying in the UK in 2000, Sandeep quickly purchased his first practice and expanded it from one to six surgeries within a few years. But the pivotal moment came in 2017 when he made the bold decision to step away from clinical dentistry entirely. Rather than causing his income to drop, this shift gave him the space to lead strategically and grow faster.
This episode uncovers the mindset shifts and strategic pivots behind that decision. Sandeep reflects on the early grind of entrepreneurship, the evolution of dental marketing from traditional ads to digital platforms, and the importance of focusing on data and trends. One key insight came when he realized patients were asking specifically for Invisalign, revealing an untapped opportunity to structure a business around a single treatment.
Sandeep outlines three essential principles for dentists looking to grow: build a team of exceptional people, use technology to improve patient understanding, and invest in your personal brand. As more patients search online before choosing a provider, your digital presence is becoming just as important as your clinical skills.
Whether you’re an associate dreaming of ownership or a principal ready to scale, this episode offers a practical roadmap for building a business that extends far beyond the dental chair.
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Disclaimer: All content on this channel is for education purposes only and does not constitute an investment recommendation or individual financial advice. For that, you should speak to a regulated, independent professional. The value of investments and the income from them can go down as well as up, so you may get back less than you invest. The views expressed on this channel may no longer be current. The information provided is not a personal recommendation for any particular investment. Tax treatment depends on individual circumstances and all tax rules may change in the future. If you are unsure about the suitability of an investment, you should speak to a regulated, independent professional. Investment figures quoted refer to simulated past performance and that past performance is not a reliable indicator of future results/performance.
It's always good to find out how someone has built a dental empire, so to speak, because there's lots of learnings and lessons along the way that can help inspire us dentists to do amazing things, and that's why I have Mr Sandeep Kumar with me today. Sandeep Kumar is particularly interesting. He is a UK dentist who's gone on to grow several associate-led dental practices and the MiSmile Network. Looking forward to learning a lot from Mr Kumar today. I'm looking forward to this episode because Sandeep and I have been talking behind the scenes for a little while and life has confounded us, hasn't it, Sandeep? To get this podcast. But now we're here, we're ready to go, we're in the flesh. This is all about Mr Kumar, his MiSmile Network, the journey and all the things we've learned along the way. Kumar oh, beg your pardon about Mr Kumar, his MiSmile network, the journey and all the things we've learned along the way. Kumar oh, beg your pardon. Mr Kumar, how are you today?
Dr Sandeep:I'm very well and you're okay to call me my first name, don't worry.
Dr James:You don't have to be too formal about it, say Mr Kumar Sandeep is absolutely fine.
Dr James:We'll roll with Sandeep. We'll roll with Sandeep, anyway. Of episodes I particularly enjoy, because they're almost like a biography more than anything else and this sort of stuff. A lot of the lessons in business, I'm sure you'll agree. And when you're growing a company, there's stuff that the books just don't teach you. You just got to figure it out, and what works for one person is going to be the opposite of what works for someone else. So it's quite fun to share this stuff. So Sandeep started out as a dentist and then you were a dentist for a long time, weren't you?
Dr Sandeep:Yeah. So, jim, just a very quick background. I'm qualified as a dentist in India and I came to UK in 1998. When I got here I found out that my degree was not recognized so I had to do some qualifying exams. So I had to go through. I had to work as a dental nurse for nearly 18 months before I did my exams and I qualified as a dentist in the UK in 2000. And here we are. The rest is history.
Dr James:There we are Good stuff and then very quickly into the world of practice ownership and then went on to grow and start my smile, which I'm very interested to talk a little bit about and share a little bit about that journey, because I always have a, there's always a really uh, how can I say this? You know, there's like a special place in my heart for dentists who started businesses that aren't necessarily dental practices. You know like they're related to dentistry, but maybe just not.
Dr James:you know something a little bit outside the box, but yeah so worked as an associate a few years, then under got your first practice. Is that correct?
Dr Sandeep:yeah, so called qualified in 2000, worked as an associate in a practice for two years. Um, very, very early on, I I learned, I understood and no, I don't want to work for somebody else, I just have to. I have to have built something my own. I've sat down with my principal and say you know, I'm considering opening my own practice or going somewhere. Or if you feel the value of us working together, how do you think about if we do partnership or if I buy it". And he was very good to me.
Dr Sandeep:I learned a lot from him in those two years and in 2003, like within two years, in January 2003, I bought partnership and September 2003, I bought that business. It was NHS practice to start with and some of the listeners may know about, you know, when the UDA contract was changed in 2006. So I worked, you know, exceptionally, exceptionally hard from 2003 to 2006 and built that practice from one surgery to six surgery Nice, it was phenomenal. So we had nearly, you know, close to 50,000 UDAs when the contract was changed. So that became the backbone of my business really, and from there onward, just, you know, went on to build different dental practices and enjoyed the business side of dentistry more than the clinical.
Dr James:There we are and you still got that practice. Is that right side?
Dr Sandeep:of dentistry more than the clinical. There we are and you still got that practice, is that right? Uh?
Dr James:2003 in october, I've sold all my nhs practices to my dentist okay, so you, you sold up and then you use the cash to reinvest in other businesses and what have you? And this is such an important part of the journey, because I feel like some, a lot of people, they want the, they want the chapter like 50. You know what I mean. They want to be at that stage where they can just go and do, uh, these amazing things or uh, but what, what? Maybe what we don't have explained to us enough times is you learn so much through the first few companies. That's what enables you to do that later. Would you agree?
Dr Sandeep:oh 100. You know, starting a business, building a business or exiting out of business are completely three different skill sets and you have to go through that as a phases. So when you're starting out you know you have to. There's no such thing called work-life balance. There's no such thing called weekend and weekdays. You just have to put your hours in and work your ass off. Excuse my language, you know there's no other way. Nobody's going to teach you Early on. You do everything what you need to do to build a business. Then, once you have established enough, where you have got enough infrastructure, when you have enough people around you, when the business is established enough, that's when you start to take a foot off the gas and start working a little bit on the business and a little bit in the business. So there's three levels you have to go through as a business owner Hard work, hard work, seven days a week, then step out a little bit and then run either an associate-led business or completely exit out of out of business.
Dr Sandeep:So looking back, you know to, from since 2000, 2000 when I started working as a dentist, 17 years, I went through this journey of six days a week, cut down to four days a week, three days a week, and then in 2017, I decided to completely quit dentistry clinical dentistry. So, yeah, I still run a number of dental businesses, but, yeah, it's been. Yeah, but you have to go through that to learn. No books or anything is going to teach you when is the right time. You know, you track data, you measure data, you learn from data, but data has got its own place.
Dr Sandeep:You have to follow your gut feeling as well. When you think the time is right to take a step away from clinical dentistry. You have to understand the market. You have to see what's happening out there in the world and then make a right decision when is the time to exit. So, yeah, these are the skills I wish. You know people, people learn these things or people teach them in in dental schools, but unfortunately, it doesn't happen well, on the whole hard work thing, you know, sometimes when people how can I say this?
Dr James:you know, uh, when we talk about hard work, you know I get sometimes people there's, there can be a little bit of a backlash from some people, right, because they're like, oh, we're glamorizing hustle culture and everything along those lines. But to me it's like okay, cool, yes, there is that side to it, but at the same time, as you were saying a second ago, it's just a pragmatic thing. You know, the more you work is, the more opportunities there are for you to learn and gather data and improve. And if you compress that and front load it at the start of your journey, then to me it makes life easier later, which is basically what the work equates to and just getting things done. So I always think that's a novel way of looking at it. Anything you would have done differently if you could go back and talk to Sandeep in 2000?.
Dr Sandeep:You know, looking back, I ask this question myself all the time Do you think I have made mistakes? Have I made some cock-ups? Could I have done things differently? Absolutely. Will I go back and change anything? Absolutely not, because those moments, those times when you make mistakes, either they're going to make you or they're going to break you. So one of my habits is you know, when something doesn't go right, you know you feel emotion, you feel angry, you feel sad, you feel frustrated, you feel pissed off. You have to go through those emotions and then you know, just step out of that and take some time to think about it and learn why something gone wrong, what you could have done differently, and make some, make some notes or learn from that episode and make sure you don't repeat it. And you're going to make some other cock ups and that's absolutely fine. That that's how. That's how. That's how life goes. But yeah, will I change anything? Absolutely not. Um, have I made mistakes? Plenty, we can. We can do a five-hour podcast on that if you want I'm sure.
Dr James:Well it's. There's a saying that I love, and perhaps some of the listeners might roll their eyes whenever I say this, but whenever it comes to making mistakes, I always like to remind myself you either win or you learn, because the mistakes are just learning points, right you're either going to succeed or you're learning.
Dr James:There's no such thing as losing per se, if you have that attitude anyway. Question I'm really interested to ask you this question because you've obviously ran practices for a number of years, close to a quarter of a decade. Well, actually, no, it is a quarter of a decade. You know what I mean? You're in 2025. Now there we are. Uh, what was it going to say? So do you think practice ownership was easier or harder back then than it is now?
Dr Sandeep:uh, practice ownership easier was much, much, much easier those days, and I'll tell you why. Um, I remember when I bought my first practice, to get a loan approved from the bank was like a walk in the park. I remember I you know it was close to around $200,000 or something. When I bought my first practice book, my bank manager even sat me down and said you know, if you need a little bit of spending money, let us know, we can give you a little bit more loan. Those days getting loans were a lot easier than what they are today.
Dr Sandeep:What else was different was you could open the NHS practice whenever you want. You can open a private practice wherever you want. It was much, much easier. You just have to file an application and there you go, you open your practice. But now things have changed and you can't do that. So opening a practice was much easier those days. It's just, you know the red tape and the bureaucracy and documents and CQCs and all that. Obviously, these things are very important, but you know I do feel for people who are thinking. You know I spent last couple of days traveling. One day I went up north, one day I went up south and I met three of the people who are part of my smile. They have started their practices and it's not easy, my friend. Now it's not easy. There is so much you have to think about, you have to do. Um, it is doable. You know there's lots of people learning successful practices. But looking back, I think those days were, I feel it was much easier interesting.
Dr James:And you know one other thing I was interested to ask as well. I mean the number of podcasts I've done on the Denison Invest podcast with new practice owners and they're always raving about social media and how it can be rocket fuel, especially if you want to get a squat potentially off the ground because your personal brand or your following well, that can generate your patients and lead flow. How was that done back then? Was it just good old-fashioned word of mouth?
Dr Sandeep:So good old-fashioned. Going back to the days when I first initially opened my first private practice in 2007, the only thing I ever used to do at that time was yellow pages. I don't know if you even heard about those or not. I know the yellow pages, yellow pages was the go-to. You need an electrician, you need a plumber, you need anything you need you go on Yellow Pages and that used to work really well. And then radio advertisement believe me or not, around 2011, 2012, 2013,. Radio advertisement used to be probably the best investment I used to make in my business those days. And then the print advert, the metros and magazines and all that that used to work. And looking back around 2014, 2015 time when all this Google, google search engine, google pay-per-click when all that came. That's when all these medias start to die down. And then we all know about Facebook and Instagram, and now we can't keep track of all this new TikTok and all this new technology. The most important thing I think I teach about this at my courses as well is I think you know if I call myself that I've done okay in my lifetime is, and I think to do that I think one of the secret has been I've always been willing to adapt, to change. You know people. I ask people sometime in the course do you know what Google Pay per click is? Or do you know what search engine optimization is? It's really amazing. People don't think about these things.
Dr Sandeep:And you know dentistry? Yes, you know we are in the healthcare profession. Yes, it's our job to give our patients the best smile, the best oral hygiene, the best healthy mouth. But ultimately, you're trying to run a business, and business is not just doing dentistry. The business is marketing. The business is sales. The business is marketing. The business is sales. The business is how you build a team. The business is how do you organize a patient journey in your practice? The business is how do you look after and incentivize your team. So running a dental practice is, you know, what has completely changed is early days. I used to go, patient used to come and all you do is drill and fill, drill and fill all day. But now running a business is a very exciting, but it can be very complex if you don't understand what you're doing.
Dr James:Yeah, I mean, marketing is just one of those things. You know it's it's it's so dynamic, isn't it Right? We've got to keep on top of it, like you have to. It's essential for your business. I'm interested to know, aside from all the other things that we mentioned, do you feel it's more competitive nowadays versus back then? Uh, marketing is obviously very, very competitive oh sorry, sorry, I might have not explained that question fully properly. What I mean is just, in general, owning a dental practice. But yes, marketing is a component of that.
Dr Sandeep:So marketing is very competitive at the moment. Everybody is trying to doing the same thing. They're trying to copy what other people are doing. It's how do you stand out of in, how stand out in this marketplace? I think that's that's the biggest challenges, and people who are doing really well in this field is, I think, who are focusing on building their own personal profile, as you have done with your, you know, with your dentist to invest. You've got a brand, you've got a name attached to that. Everybody knows you. It's very recognizable brand and people know you, even if they have not met you, or they know People who are really nailing that personal profile, personal brand. I think those are the guys who are really, really winning now.
Dr James:I completely agree. Hopefully people know me, I don't know, but uh we'll have to ask the public, won't we? But, uh, certainly I would say it does help, and a big part of that is just being willing to get yourself out there and make content, because it's a big fear factor for a lot of people, but there's so much good stuff on the other side of it and there's still lots of opportunities on social media even in 2025, if you ask me, because there's so few people who are willing to do it.
Dr Sandeep:Yeah, but you know this is a fear people have this fear of judgment, fear of failure, fear of what other people will think, fear of the quality of posts, the fear of how other people are going to judge you. But it's about social media is a window shopping, right? People are looking at you before they're going to come and do business with you. So if you look at a dental practice, somebody's made an inquiry. You spend thousands of pounds in marketing. Somebody's made an inquiry, somebody's made a booking. The gap between somebody's making an inquiry and booking what people are doing is they are checking you out. They're checking your website. They're checking your social platform. They're checking what sort of practice you are.
Dr Sandeep:How do you engage with patients, what the other people are talking about you, and this is where you know the Google. You engage with patients, what the other people are talking about you, and this is where you know the Google reviews and stuff is very important. It's about making your business social proof. People want to see that people like them, like going to the practices like that, and the only way people can find out that stuff is on internet and social media. So just by saying I don't like to be on social media, or I don't like to do videos or posts or whatever. It's okay, you know, if that's what you prefer. But I think with that type of thinking, you're missing a big opportunity to reach out to mass market, reach out to reach out to big audience.
Dr James:Well, I once heard well I recently recent-ish heard social media described as your digital CV, which I really liked. And it's like people read the publicly available digital CV which is your following and your content and your website and all this stuff, and I just really liked it when someone put it like that, because it's really visceral. It's really visual, isn't't it? Like you wouldn't go to a job interview without a cv, like that's the first rule that you've broken right there. But in a way, a lot of us still have yet to develop the digital cv. Food for thought, Sandeep. Yeah, you've obviously taken your practices from owner operator led to being associate led. Yeah, interested to know how did that journey look for you? What were the most important things that you had to implement into the business in order to make that happen?
Dr Sandeep:Yeah, so I can very clearly remember when I made that decision and how that happened. So, around 2016 time, I was working three days a week in the clinic and managing six practices at that time three days a week in the clinic and managing six practices at that time and he was, you know, running around and not being able to do anything with a hundred percent efficiency. So I made a decision that you know I can't carry on like this, something I have to give. So, after speaking to you know some mentors and some of my close friends I made a decision that I'm going to focus on running a business my close friends. I made a decision that I'm going to focus on running a business. So, during the period of 2017, I empowered my associates, I hired the right people who are going to take care of the business and I mentally prepared myself that I am going to have a huge I'm going to have a huge drop in my income. So, because you know, when you're running a business, every principal always feel that they are the best clinician, they are the biggest fear and if they stop working, it's going to impact their bottom line and the reality is it will. So you have to prepare yourself for that, and that's what exactly did.
Dr Sandeep:I hired a couple of good associates and you know, everybody used to. I used to think that my patients will leave my practice they will never come back because they're so attached to me, and I did this really nicely. I handed over each and every patient to my associate in a really you know. I sat down with my patient and said you know, this is what's going to happen from now, from next year on, what I'm going to stop doing focusing on clinical dentistry. But here's the thing I loved looking after you over the last five, six years, whatever that was.
Dr Sandeep:Now Oliver is going to take care of you. Here's my business card If there's any problem, if there's any challenge or if there's any question you have, you can still reach out to me. And remember this if you can trust me, you can trust Oliver, and that's why that's how I handed over all my routine patients throughout the 2017. And he was absolutely fine and you know, looking back, probably by far one of the best decisions I've ever made. That gave me a time, that gave me time to think about things, that gave me a time to plan, and so people were very, very crucial the people who you're going to leave to run your business once you go from owner-operator to owner-only.
Dr James:You know what a nice way of saying it, because you did it in a way that was empathetic towards the patient and it also meant that you weren't well tied into the clinic for longer than you wanted to be, and people people are more empathetic than we give them credit for sometimes they can't expect you to just be their dentist for 100, you know, 50 years or something like that, you know. So it's all about how you frame things. And then you know, you kind of touched upon this just then, now that you, when you came out the other side of not being a principal, are you with me there's doubtless going to be little things that you realize in terms of, oh, I used to be normalized to do all this, uh, you know, uh, my back used to hurt every day and things along those lines. Or now I have so much more free time to think about, uh, working on the business rather than in the business and hiring and everything along those lines. What were those epiphanies or maybe things that you realized through doing it?
Dr James:I know you touched upon it just a second ago. You got more free time and things like that. Was there any other ones in there?
Dr Sandeep:Yeah. So you know, at that time I said I was running about six clinics at that time and once I took a step away from that, the first thing I bought myself was time, nice, and that gave me time to analyze what's actually happening in my practice, what's actually working in my business. And so one of the things I realized at that time was it was actually a big, big game changer in my business life was it came to a point where patients was calling us and they were making inquiries with us, not because they wanted teeth straightening, not because they wanted orthodontics. They were actually picking up a phone and calling us and say, hey, can I have Invisalign? And it was just. I remember it was one of the meetings and my team said have you noticed that people, whoever are calling us, they are asking for Invisalign? And I thought, you know, if the brand awareness is so good out there, why don't I build business, just focus around on Invisalign? And you know we looked at the data. We made some significant changes. We branded our clinics focused around Invisalign.
Dr Sandeep:And, looking back, I don't think it would have ever happened if I was busy being busy, if I was not had an opportunity. Yeah, we were collecting the data, but what's the use of that data if you're not ever looking at it? I start to go around and speak to my team. You know what's working, what sort of patients are we getting, how are we presenting our treatment plans, how are we offering different finance? Which finance people are accepting? So it gave me a time to look at the data and you know data speaks a language. If you understand, data speaks a language. And yeah, that is the day, and today is the day, and since then I've gone on to build eight brand new squat practices and they're all focused around Invisalign and, yeah, that's what it gave me when you have a bit more time.
Dr James:Yeah, I think it's something. As you say, you take the initial hit, don't you? Income-wise? Yeah, and I think for a lot of people, and myself included, that's really tough to swallow. But in the long run, providing you keep focused on these bigger opportunities and building other things, there's actually a lot more money on the table. It's just being able to say no to a little bit of cash in the here and now. It's not just that. You know, we don't want to make it out that, it's really simple, but I feel like that's one of the big barriers that is on the table.
Dr Sandeep:You hit a nail on the head. This is where everybody wants to take a step away from clinical. But they're worried. They're thinking, if that's what I do, my income is going to drop. I'm never going to earn what I'm earning. Now. We become very comfortable what we'm earning. Now it's it's, it's becomes. We become very comfortable what we are earning and we don't want. Nobody likes to have a drop. But if you have a strategic plan that, yes, you're going to have a you know little bit drop for a couple of months or maybe a year or so, but you will come out on the other end and you'll never, you'll never, never look back.
Dr James:Yeah, it's true, and I've been through that as well. I definitely have been through that. We're leaving dentistry basically because it's you know, I was in a place where, yes, you can go to the clinic and do really well and have this pay packet that most people, well, you know, aspire to their whole lives. But, yes, whilst that is possible, you know, if you really aspire to their whole lives, but, uh, yes, whilst that is possible, you know, if you really want to build something, you feel passionate about something else, the time's got to come from somewhere, right, so it's just, it's just, uh, how can I say this? Well, it's just, yeah, it's a mindset thing as much as anything else. But, yeah, okay, cool.
Dr James:And then, obviously, one of those projects or one of those things that you created whenever you had a little bit more time was MiSmile. Of course, right, that is it. Yeah, and how is you know MiSmile as a business model top down? For people out there who haven't heard of it, if we, if would you be able to just give a little bit of an explainer? I'd be interested to just share that with the audience, and then we'll go from there.
Dr Sandeep:Yeah, absolutely. I'd be interested to just share that with the audience and then we'll go from there. Yeah, absolutely. You know I started doing Invisalign around 2007. By 2013, 2014, I was the biggest provider of Invisalign outside London. People heard about me.
Dr Sandeep:People knew me, who I was, and you know you bump into people and say, suneep, you know, I heard you're doing very well. How do you do your marketing? What's your patient journey look like doing very well? How do you do your marketing? What's your patient journey look like? How do you train your team? You know, it was just like you know, as you talk to your friends in dentistry and your colleagues, and these were the questions every time I go in a meeting, these were the questions I was coming across. And then, you know, I had a.
Dr Sandeep:You know, I work very closely with Invisalign and I sat down with the team at Align and said you know what? There's a huge opportunity here. The people are asking us you know, how do you do your marketing? How do I do my Google marketing? How do I do my social media marketing? How do I train my team? And I said what about if we create a platform where I can help practices openly to help them grow their investment business? And as long as it's a viable business model for everybody, as long as it's a win-win for everybody, then I would love to do something like that. So, yeah, so MiSmile was born in 2015 in collaboration with Align Technology. We started with 20 practices Everybody who's part of MiSmile. They pay a monthly contribution and we use that funds to do the marketing, the training, help, the clinical setup for all of our MiSmile members and help them grow their Invisalign. And you know it's built on a commercial model with Align technology and we started with 20 practices in 2015. And today we are close to 150 practices in the MiSmile network.
Dr James:Nice and it's primarily online, then, by the signs of it, is that right yeah?
Dr Sandeep:Marketing is primarily online. So marketing is primarily online. The training is face-to-face. So we have our key account managers who go to different practices and help them train their teams for the front of the house treatment coordinators, social media training. So Once we have created those leads, they have to go through a proper journey to be able to convert them into ultimate treatment. So for that part, we have our team who goes in the practices and then we have a treatment planning service which we help set up all the Invisalign cases and ClinCheck for all of our MySmilers.
Dr James:Interesting. And then MiSmile is obviously growing 150 practices as we speak in June 2025. What's the plan going forward in MiSmile? Are you going to remain in the UK? Are you going to grow it?
Dr Sandeep:Yeah, so we launched MiSmile in Poland and in Nordics. So we've been testing that in both of those regions for last year or so. Nordics we've been testing that in both of those regions for last year or so. Nordics we have done very well. So we were having discussions about how do we launch actually the MiSmile network in those regions. So MiSmile is you know. So I run my courses called Mastering your Invisalign Business Program. That's where people come in. There's a I'm doing one tomorrow where I talk about we don't talk about teeth, we don't talk about clinical, it's all. It's all about how to build a dental practice focusing on a mesoline and then from there, some people join MiSmile network program If their area is available. If not, then they join our MiSmile community.
Dr James:So yeah, nordics is our next next market which we're going to focus on very nice and just in terms, just pure curiosity, more than anything else in terms in terms of division of time, because, again, another belief that I held for a long time, before I had my own businesses, was how does somebody actually find the time to do all these things like?
Dr James:How does that look? So I'm curious in terms of your own not, not, not my uh, my, my own, uh belief that I hold on those sorts of things is it's not that I don't have enough time, I just haven't figured out a way to automate it or delegate it yet. And then, all of a sudden, when you rewire your brain to think that way, you're like okay, cool, well, we can figure this out. I just got to do one of those two things. You can build something as big as you like, you just have to get the right amount of leverage or automation, uh, and delegation. I'm just interested to know in terms of your own time and your own schedule. I'm gonna guess it's not quite the 14, 16 hours a day anymore, is it? It's more relaxed than that.
Dr Sandeep:So this is uh, this is one thing I learned from. I don't know if anybody has heard about a guy called dan sullivan who runs these strategic coaching programs australian guy right with a beard that is yes, yeah, and there's one thing I learned from him, it was uh who, not how uh sounding nothing in my business I'm gonna have to show you this oh my god, you talked about time again I've, I've had this book.
Dr James:I had that exact book within arm's reach. So there we are. There you go. That tells you something, huh, and I.
Dr Sandeep:I got this about 10 years ago, so that that's probably where yeah, absolutely whatever I'm doing, the first thing I'm thinking is how quickly I'm going to give this to somebody to do and this doesn't become my responsibility In my whole business, other than running Mastering your Investment Business programs, which I am running them at the moment. We're doing about 30, 35 a year at the moment. We're doing about 30, 35 a year at the moment. Other than that, everything is delegated to team and you know that's probably my biggest job is to find the right people, look after them, mentor them, coach them and then let them run the business. So, you know, I'm not a magician, but I'm very lucky and blessed to have some amazing people around me who are, you know, incredible, incredible at what they do. And, yeah, they are the ones who are running the business and I'm there supporting them, making sure they have got enough resources to do what they need to do.
Dr James:What's that Richard Branson quote? It's something along the lines of if I need something done, the first thing I'll do is find somebody smarter than me and better than me at that thing and then hire them. That's it. Yeah, absolutely yeah, yeah. It's such a flip in thinking, isn't it, you know? Because all of a sudden the onus isn't on you to be the best at everything. You know you can be the best at the thing that you're the best at, the, and usually for most people there's one to two things that are really good at.
Dr Sandeep:I have to question myself what I'm actually good at forget about being best at oh, you're just being modest.
Dr James:I can tell there's some, there's something in there, somewhere, I'm sure.
Dr Sandeep:I think you know, but I think the bottom best, that is the people I'm surrounded myself with and I think you go absolutely what's that?
Dr James:steve jobs quote? Um, something along the lines of it. When somebody asked him, what do you do in apple? Um he's like I don't play the instruments, I, I play the orchestra, I'm the, I'm the orchestrator yeah, something like that, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, anyway, and which is a talent in and of itself, but no, that's, that's interesting. You know the kicker about that book? Who, not how? At the very end he reveals that he didn't even write it. He got somebody else who's good at writing books to write it.
Dr Sandeep:Have you noticed that? You know what I'm not surprised? You know I don't know that. You heard I wrote a book mastering your investment business. Mastering your investment business. I didn't sat there and wrote every single paragraph and pages of that. I worked with somebody who helped me to do that and it came out absolutely fantastic.
Dr James:Nice one. And what about the practices? I know that obviously my Smile is growing, which is amazing. The practices you're expanding on that front as well. Just periodic interest more than anything else.
Dr Sandeep:Yeah, so currently I've run my practices under three different branches. One is my Smile, one is Smile Stylist and the third one is Smile with S-M-M-I-L-E. The basic fundamental of every business is exactly the same. It's focused and built around Invisalign and cosmetic dentistry. We have two key people who run every single dental practice. Number one who's the practice manager? Who takes care of the operations and people and equipment and opening hours, and something is broken down. Anything to do with operations is the practice manager's role. Then we have another person who is our treatment coordinator. They are totally responsible for the marketing and the sales.
Dr Sandeep:How much money we are spending, how many leads are we generating, how many people who are booking their appointment, how many are not turning up for their appointment, how many are coming in? How many are going ahead? So if I need to know about the numbers and the figures, that's the person I speak to. If I'm talking about the operations of the business, that's the person I speak to. And if we have 10 people in our team, nobody comes to me. So I speak to these two people.
Dr Sandeep:If anybody in the team needs anything, it doesn't matter if they're a dentist or a hygienist or front of the house they go to these people. Over the years I have trained them, I have coached them, I've empowered them to manage nine out of 10 things. But if there's something you know, no matter how good the people are, sometimes they get stuck. And that's the time you know. They come to me and we sit down, we look at what the problem is, we look at what the solutions are and we agree what we're going to do, and off they go and do it, and this is how exactly every business is running.
Dr James:Yeah, yeah, and I mean it's almost something. It's one of those things. It's not that anybody can't do these things, it's almost we just shift it's like a little bit of a shift in our thinking to empower others to be able to handle these things, you know, and being able to say to them like, hey, you know, here's how you do it. Now, what that means is you can go off and do that continuously. Or it's like the. You know the book, the E-Myth. I don't know if you've ever read it. Yeah, love that book. Is it great? Sound deep to the dennis invest audience anybody out there who is either running a business or thinking about starting a business in 2025. Have you got any words of wisdom for them or things that you wish you could share with perhaps a younger version of yourself who was just on at the beginning of their journey in business?
Dr Sandeep:One thing I realized is none of your dreams or visions or plans will ever come true if you don't have right people with you. It's about finding the right people, working with them, building them, training them. Sometimes you will make mistakes, sometimes you will end up hiring wrong people, sometimes things are not going to work out as you want. But if you can build a team, for me that is the number one. The number two is technology. In today's world, in 2025, you cannot be sitting there doing impressions. You cannot be sitting there trying to explain to patients what their smile or what their teeth could look like. Use technology, use visualization to really empower your patients and help them make a decision. And finally, what I'm seeing out there is people who are building as real, successful businesses. They are really focusing on building their own personal profiles. So yeah, here you go. You get these three things there and there about. I don't think you need to worry too much about it.
