S2 #3 - How to reinvent yourself. GET INSPIRED with Arnaud Collery

In this inspiring episode, Pauline Francois interviews Arnaud Collery: global speaker, coach, and co-founder of Humanava ; about his unconventional journey from law and tech to global leadership.

They discuss the importance of embracing failure, leading with authenticity, overcoming fear, and building a life and career aligned with your true self.

Arnaud shares practical advice on reinvention, the vision behind Humanava, and the rituals that keep him balanced.

A powerful conversation for anyone seeking purpose and courage in their professional path. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

You're listening to the Incubate Her podcast, season two, episode three.

SPEAKER_00 0:05

About self-development, fulfillment, and career growth so you can reach your true potential. Now your host, Pauline Francois.

SPEAKER_04 0:11

Welcome to the Incubate Her podcast, the podcast where we explore the journeys of both thinkers, builders, entrepreneurs, and believers for shaping their careers and themselves on their own terms. I'm your host, Pauline Francois, and today's episode is one that I've been especially looking forward to. Our guest is someone who lives and breathes transformation, who's readapted, who's created, and who's founded several different entrepreneurships. Arnaud Collery comes with his 10 years experience as a global keynote speaker, storyteller, emotional intelligence coach, and the co-founder of Humanava, a leadership school dedicated to helping individuals and organizations lead with purpose, empathy, and authenticity. And you know that's a very, very important term to me. I know you've delivered conferences all around the world, inspired people globally in more than 32 countries. You've partnered with the likes of Harvard, the United Nations, and Google, to name a few. Your journey has taken you from law and tech to the world stage, where you've become a pioneer in the fields of happiness at work and human-centered leadership. You've coached Fortune 500 leaders, delivered TEDx talks, and created platforms like Stand Up for Passion to amplify stories of resilience and reinvention, which you've applied to your own career, I believe, and you will tell us more about it. And on a personal note, I've had the privilege in participating in the very first 12-week leadership program offered by Humaneva. And it was not only a deeply enriching experience, but it also challenged me to grow, reflect, think about where I wanted to go and the impact I wanted to give in my career. It also marked the official launch of the school, so you will tell us more about this as well, I hope. So today's conversation is not only professional, it's also personal. and on my own dynamic to grow. In this episode, we'll dive into the turning points that shaped Arnaud's path and the passion that fueled his work and the lessons that he's learned along the way. As always, we will be very transparent and forthcoming into what we share. We'll talk about balance, purpose, and how he envisions the next chapter of his life and mission. Whether you're navigating your own career pivot, searching for more meaning in your work, or simply curious about what it takes to lead with heart, this episode is for you. So let's start at the beginning. Your career path, Arnaud, is made of plot twists and unexpected changes. It's anything but traditional, which I love personally, and I know our listeners will love too, and hear about how people find their way, especially when the road is not straight. So from lotto tech to storytelling and emotional intelligence, what were the pivotal moments that shaped your journey?

SPEAKER_01 3:16

Wow, big question. First of all, thanks for the introduction. Thanks for having followed exactly our first cohort of our School of Leadership. Yes, of course. I was thinking back a few days ago, like, you know, every time I have a chance, I take a little bit of distance and look at my life, you know, from not microscopic view, but I'm trying to take, you know, zoom out, right? And I say, what were the mantras after all, you know, you can always Steve Jobs said, reconnect the dots later. And I was thinking just as you said, non-traditional path. I use what happens to me. It's interesting because I think first is I'm very, very aware of what Mark Aurelius, the Roman emperor said, beware of what nature asks of us. So first of all, I know, I understand deeply, it's not going to be easy. It's never easy, it's Just get easier. After that, I understand how goals shape me. So I had a lot of goals. I've achieved some. I felt many, many, many. And I'm going to keep achieving some. And I'm going to keep failing many, many. And then I'm also deeply, deeply aware is that life is what happens to you when you're busy making other plans. So I'm deeply aware. It's going to be difficult. But yet I'm going to try my best to goals shape you, goal help you to focus yourself and also clarify your message when you talk to others or when you lead others but then I'm also aware that no matter what life or destiny I just came back from Tunisia where it's always about inshallah it's all about destiny shape us whatever no matter what I do it's also going to be my encounters people I meet they're going to deviate me from my original path And it's okay. And it's okay as long as it rings the bell, as long as it's authentic. So what have things shaped me? I guess, again, it's just failure, failure, failure. I'm in second, which is 10th grade, high school, 10th grade. And I don't feel easy. I know I'm a crafty. I'm very sensitive. I'm not good at school. I don't even want to go to school. My mathematic teacher just fired me. Just don't Don't come. You know how to do things, but you're just so bored. I really don't know. And I find this program. I convinced my parents to let me go to America for one year, high school.

SPEAKER_03 5:55

How old

SPEAKER_01 5:56

were you? 16.

SPEAKER_03 5:57

Oh,

SPEAKER_01 5:57

wow. And that was really the shape of everything. I'm in America, high school, in Georgia. I have nothing against Georgia, but it was not the most exciting place. Let's be honest for me, right? I was next to Macon, Georgia, a very small town, quite racist, I have to say. They were racist. I mean, I would say that I had someone from Georgia in my face. So, but then I discovered the ability to become yourself in America. I mean, I love the American mindset after this. I go back to France. I'm at the American business school in Paris. But then again, I'm bored. I can't even study marketing. I'm like, God, just, I'm okay to communicate about what they do, but finding strategies, which is all about this marketing, it's not me. Same, I stop going to course and of course I can't graduate I start to work at a stock exchange and then I get even bored on this just working at the stock exchange I'm 18 by now 19 and I decide what else I still I think I want to study I think I want to study and I discover a program in Japan and I lie about I lie through my notes I lie about what I was doing just to get in the program to get in the school yeah which is fine I think, you know, if you have to twist a bit the reality to be more authentic, I'm fine with it, right?

SPEAKER_03 7:19

Fake

SPEAKER_01 7:20

it till you become it, right? So, you know, I actually fake it to come back to the American business school. I fake it to get accepted to the high school exchange program because I was not good in school. So I fake it. And I can say that now, right, 30 years later. I fake it to go to Japan and I get it. And then for the very first time when I was 19 years old in Japan, you know, I was... I was not considered idiot in France but I was really average just barely above average right and I thought of myself like this but I understood right there and then two things motivate me just passion as long as I have passion I can learn anything just if I have no passion for nothing nothing gets in my mind nothing so I'm not an academic per se but I'm so passionate about people life understanding learning being excited so In Japan, I understood the power of study. And I was thankful, of course. Destiny sometimes shows you what you need to hear. I had some amazing Japanese teachers about life, philosophy, politics, economics. For the very first time, I dwelled myself in politics, economics, philosophy, things now that matter, like ikigai and lots of Japanese concepts. I come back in France and I want to study. And I apply to this Master of Finance. And of course, I don't have the academic degree. But then I'm lucky. I really think sometimes luck shows itself when you're ready. I remember it was just to enter a very small school of finance in Paris, not a big school. And I had to do a spoken, an oral, we say in French, a spoken exam to get in the school. And I could have asked any question about business. And I still remember there was a little box with... I had to pick one paper. I couldn't think about counting money, but anything. And I was lucky because at the time, Japan management was very much studies in, we are in 92, 94, something like this. And I pick up, describe the Japanese management program. Of course, I just came back from one year in Japan. I had visited 50 company. I knew everything. I could speak for hours. So, I mean, I would have pick up any other question, I would have failed. And then my, you know, From then on, my life has been, first two years in finance, same thing, get bored, it's not me. Communication, I go back to Japan, I work as a sales guy for Cartier, luxury, again I get bored. Every time is, whenever, for me, the time to change in your life is, what is it emerging in you? What is your soul of yourself, really? So for me, it was never a question of money. as long as I have a roof, which means I'm the poorest of all my friends. Brilliant or idiot, all my friends have a better financial life. I think I'm the richer guy inside. Because I just, and I have no regret whatsoever. No regret. I've just, you know, I've changed 15 times. I work in actually 42 countries. And no regret. I just choose whatever needed to be chosen. I just sign up, for instance, a few days ago to do a big event in Madagascar. You can imagine I'm not going to get paid a lot. It's one of the poorest countries in the world. I'm so excited. Of course, I'm going to work with with an NGO there helping 18 years old to understand themselves. We're going to do my event called Stand Up for Passion, seven speakers, seven minutes, which I've done 30 times in 15 countries. We had people like Thomas Pesquet, the astronaut, but we also had Housewife in Nepal. We had Sumo in Japan. We did twice in Japan. It was fabulous. So anyway, just what I say is really go with what emerge about you. And for this, the best advice I can give you for anyone willing to change, wanting to change, stuck somewhere, take distance, take three, four days by yourself, no spouse, no kids, no phones, no computer, what is emerging in you? Not what's going to make you money, what's going to make you the most successful, what your soul needs of you. And often, it will be also aligned with your career choice.

SPEAKER_04 12:04

What's your fuel?

SPEAKER_01 12:05

What's your fuel, right? As long as there's a phrase, I'm just going to say it in French because it means I love it. It's another adage, right? It's another proverb that for me guides me. I read that five years ago. Soulage. Soulage was one of the biggest French contemporary artists. I think he just died 100 years old a couple of years ago. And he said this sentence. Dans la vie, il faut acheminer. so if I translate in English it's in life you have just to go after what is moving you and keep going even if you don't know the end so that's why it's so interesting because when I train leaders whether it's in my school when I go on the ground and work with leaders for a few days live I know the power of vision vision create your vision this is what excites you yes and in the meantime again be fully aware Be aware of what emerges in you. Be fully aware that if you don't know exactly where you're going to go, it's okay. As long as it's full of passion and authenticity, it's okay.

SPEAKER_04 13:13

And aligned, I'm assuming.

SPEAKER_01 13:15

As long as it's okay.

SPEAKER_04 13:16

And so you've basically created for yourself... a path for study that is your own and very unique and taken from different continents, cultural ways to teach. And it resonates so much with me because I can totally relate to the feeling in America where you feel free to be yourself. I was a BAF student as well. Oh, you were? Yeah, I was. So I felt really misunderstood from the French system. Anyways, I wanted to ask you, how have those experiences defined the way you see success? You've mentioned your friends who are financially wealthy, and that's amazing. Which is great. I love it. And I

SPEAKER_01 14:02

love wealthy people. I'm always looking for investors. If anyone listens, I'm always looking for more investors. Of course. For a school of

SPEAKER_04 14:08

leadership. But I see that success now, even in France, is taking another flavor.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

Can you tell us more about it? Yeah. Really, I mean, success is, you know, how often have you listened to your own voice? For me, this is what success is. How often have you listened to your voice? And how often have you acted on your own voice, right? And just be in a position where judgment of others had no impact whatsoever on your career path. I mean, especially in France. If you guys live in America or Scandinavian countries, it's not the same. So one of my passions is really to study intercultural difference. But in France, in Spain, in Greece, in Portugal, beautiful old Latinos country with France, right? All those countries It's one of the best quality of life. Yet all those countries, unfortunately, when it comes time to choose your career path, worst countries in the world. Worst country because the judgment of others is worse. I think Italy is even probably worse than France. But life outside of work is probably one of the best life in the world, just like Spain. Amazing Dolce Vita. Yet when you're at work, people judge you. People judge you on doing things. And every time I do a team building I go live I was in a company a few days ago in Paris because they had a terrible team cohesion so people call me when it's so in French people calling me as a fireman when everything doesn't work please come and talk about authenticity and passion and purpose in America when they hire me or Scandinavian country when they hire me it's preventive care preventive mental health care come and talk about leadership just so we keep going it's much

SPEAKER_04 15:59

more

SPEAKER_01 15:59

proactive even in Dubai, for instance. French people say, Dubai is fine. I love going to Dubai. I work with the number one startup of Dubai called Karim. Karim, they sold themselves for$3 billion. And the co-CEO told me the reason they kept going when he sold the company, one of the reasons was the fact they did team building with me. Not to, how do you say, to blow up my own, right? My own, how do you say, an expression. But really, I'm convinced of my work on talking about passion purpose and real leadership practical leadership because he told me we kept going with nothing like you remind us of what is it we work for so you can be you know your path could be trying to create wealth for yourself as long as you align the guy the three co-founder a Saudi guy a Pakistani guy a Swedish guy which I work extensively where they were they became wealthy but it was so much aligned with what they are I give you an example of that Saudi guy. Saudi guy born in Germany tried to do startup, actually a social startup in Germany. No one really cared. There was nothing moving. And at some point, 15 years ago, he said, and there was no tech industry in Saudi at the time. Why did I not go back to Saudi? I'm going to work with my country. I'm going to help. It's raising now. And there was a really burgeoning, but there's like a few startups. He went for impact. He went for social impact. His co-founder, same thing, his co-founder was a Swedish guy in love with the Middle East. He was a consultant, I think of McKinsey in Sweden, bored to death, no impact, no line. Same thing, he said, I'm going to go to the Middle East because I think he was married with a Middle East woman, and I'm going to explore, see what emerged. Pakistani, same guy, the third co-founder, finance guy, bored to death, want to refinance, I'm going to create a startup, see what happens. Those guy created the best startup of the middle east kareem and now there's a kareem mafia just like we talk about a paypal mafia in in the u.s so again whether it's to create wealth or impact or whatever as long as it's aligned with what you are it's fuel does it give you fuel does it give you energy does it give you flow

SPEAKER_04 18:20

the thing that you are not mentioning and that strikes me because maybe because i'm french you're not talking about fear You're going after it. But that's a reality for many people. The fail fast, I was talking about it with some colleagues yesterday. The fail fast culture is something that's very American, that's very close to startups. But in France, taking that leap of faith, following your guts, emancipating yourself from what other people think. When you talked about the different Latin cultures, where people don't go after their dreams. And I don't want to say dreams, but really their drivers. Because dreams is something sometimes that doesn't have any definite form. But there is this fear of rejection. How do you combat that? How do you, in your career, have you inspired people to go after that? And also, how through Humanava, because I want us to talk about Humanava a little bit after that. how are you instillating that push, that passion, that, okay, fear is here,

SPEAKER_01 19:33

it's fine. I mean, again, yeah, I just did a workshop in Bordeaux, which is probably one of the most conservative places in the world. It's the exact opposite, I think, of what I personify, I think. So I think I was, again, thankful to be an American when I was 16, again, because I failed the French system. I was there. But in America, there's no fear. One example, I was in New York. I lived nine years in New York. I've been a judge and coach to many French-American entrepreneurship awards and one time a seat of them and three brilliant guy from Paris best research we've done 10 years of research they have PhDs from the top school and then there's a guy and they're just pouring explaining the thing just try to be perfect sounding perfect and intelligent and delicate and subtle and then comes a 22 years old guy from Missouri small university just graduated six months ago he said I'm gonna take over the world I'm gonna create the product People were not a stupid investor. They understand the French guy, the PhD and the brilliance and stuff like this. They understand where the 22 years old come from. Everyone went to talk to the 22 years old. Why? Because he had no fear because he's going to go. And I had seen that. I had spent four months in South Africa helping a startup incubator, one of the first in 2013. Fascinating experience working with young African guy. And I same thing over and over I've seen that why investor would believe a 22 years old 25 years old has no real life experience and why would they invest versus a 32 or 35 or 40 years old with a lot of experience they say he's got so much confidence he's gonna he's gonna he's gonna ride the wave and and if it doesn't work it's gonna go after and he's gonna come back to us with a new solution because he doesn't know with knowledge believe doubt With knowledge, doubt increases. I really believe this maxim, this proverb. So I'm so aware. And even me, I accumulate, I think, so much knowledge. And I'm now 50 years old, and I'm always, okay, just start from scratch. You know, in Buddhist, which I'm very close to this, I think, way of thinking, they say, you know, always come back with a beginner's mind, right? Just think you know nothing. Think you know nothing. And it's hard, of course, as long as you... accumulate knowledge. I love to travel, talk to people, read books, yet just try to start from scratch, from a terrain vierge, from a virgin country. So the fear, it's ingrained in the French. So all of you who are not French, you are so lucky not to have this thing. Because it's true, France has some of the most brilliant, some of the most educated people. But same thing in Tunisia. I just come from Tunisia. most educated country in Africa. Most. Yeah, the economy is not like Morocco, for instance, or South Africa. More educated than Morocco or South Africa. Moroccans, they're a little less fear. South African, less fear. We did a workshop, how to take risk in Bordeaux. And people were like, almost in tears after my just three hours workshop and say, why? I never knew I could. I just have to listen to me and not care. Yes, because Because in the end, in the end, if you're going to just visualize yourself 10, 20, 30 years from now, do the people who tell you this is a stupid path you're about to take, are they going to have an influence on your future? No. And plus, they cannot, of course, from their point of view, they never took risk. They never reinvented yourself. I just told that to a few people. Because

SPEAKER_04 23:31

they didn't have to, because they matched the school system.

SPEAKER_01 23:33

They matched the school system, of course. A few days ago, a girl was asking me about how to reinvent herself. I wrote a book for those of you at IDEO Publishing, for those of you who read French. And I told her, I say, don't ask question to the most brilliant people you know who just follow the matrix. Don't ask question to those people on how to reinvent yourself. You don't care they're successful or wealthy or brilliant. You go ask question on how to reinvent yourself to people who've actually done the work, who reinvent themselves, whether it was to start a startup or whether it was to leave everything behind and become a poet in Bali, whatever it is. Just surround yourself with like-minded people who've done the work of reinventing themselves or who've done the work, whether recently at some point. But whoever is in front of you who has not done the work cannot understand because unconsciously in their mind, help you which mean to help you take the right way for them will be will make them look at themselves deeply and say maybe I make a mistake why I didn't reinvent myself so no you cannot do that I have no you see where I'm taking you so this is the just take away the fear is and again every time I take a big risk in my life every single time Every single time, like, why have I done that? Probably because I'm French, right? So it's still there. It's still every time I'm in a plane to a new country. So every time I change and I left with, you know, 5,000, 10,000 euros, even with my wife, we start from scratch so many times. And in the plane, why have I done that?

SPEAKER_03 25:27

Why?

SPEAKER_01 25:28

Why do I need to change? What's going to happen? I was in a cushy situation so many times. I was in finance at 24,000. Very cushy situation. I was in luxury business, 26. Very cushy situation. And I've been very financially cushy situation often. And then I change.

SPEAKER_04 25:46

But when it's too comfortable, you stop learning.

SPEAKER_01 25:47

Boring. Yeah, it's boring.

SPEAKER_04 25:50

There's something that also I think is less taboo nowadays. We talk more about the imposter syndrome. We do talk more about the fear of missing out, the fear of failure, etc., And so there's one expression that I really like is do it, do it scared, but do it.

SPEAKER_01 26:07

Yes, yes. I love it. I always say fear, no, courage is not, I say it in French first and then I say it in English. Courage is not about not being afraid. It's about being afraid and still doing it. Still doing it. I've done public speaking for 10 years. I've done 300 keynotes and you'll see where I go with it every time I'm about to go to stage I still have les papillons I still have the butterflies I was on stage yesterday in Tunisia in front of 200 people I was still a bit scared 10 minutes before it doesn't go away and I'll go a step further it's actually if it doesn't scare you maybe you're gonna suck Maybe you're not going to be good. All the good public speakers like me, they still have this. And the ones who say, no, I'm not scared when I go on stage, but guess what? They suck. They're not good. So it's okay to have that stress, that fear. Work with it. It's life. It means you're human. Otherwise, you'll be a sociopath, right? If you do not have this fear, if you don't care about the emotion, if you don't care to be judged. But yes, whenever you do a reinvention, you it's an artistic endeavor, right? It's a disruptive. Disruptive means artistic. When you're an artist, you accept to be judged by others. It's the first rule of being an artist. And that's why many people don't want to be an artist because I don't want to be judged. Well, guess what? People are going to judge you. It's okay. Always. Don't care. Go. And the thing is, and of course, I've got this advantage having done it for a long time, whether it's public speaking or leadership training or whatever it is that I do now, is I know Some people you will influence because you're being so authentic. So I know the advantage of being authentic. Yesterday, after the stage, there was a group of women that had coached in Tunisia for a year. I was lucky to be hired by GIZ, which is the German bank of development, and they hired top experts like me in the world to do amazing things. I helped to create a group of female leaders in Tunisia, sponsored by the German government, to be the number one expert in energy. And it was just amazing, the energy. A few women came to see my keynote yesterday, and so I went there and said, oh, what I love about you, Arnaud, you just say the truth. You just say what's on your mind. It's amazing. How do you do that? Just say what's on your mind. Again, same question. Why are you not fearful? Well, I know because once you're authentic someone's going to resonate with you and that's what I love about it the goal maybe one thing you can get out of this podcast is just be open about your failure this is how you're going to succeed be open about your failure this is how you're going to lead

SPEAKER_04 29:24

people

SPEAKER_01 29:24

vulnerability name of the game

SPEAKER_04 29:27

so now Arnaud I want to shift to something that's close to both of us and it's human avatar you found this leadership school with a bold vision and I had the privilege of being part of the very first cohorts can you tell us more about how it all began what it's becoming what's your vision for the school and the impact you want to leave

SPEAKER_01 29:44

sure thank you um mixed of things why we we we created that so uh so last 10 years I was mostly coaching people live or or doing conference or producing this event stand up for passion and then you know came covid five years ago everything dumb what do we do with what we've got? All right. An entrepreneur is what do we do with what we've got? My wife was my main associate, was a senior video producer at IBM, actually, IBM New York for 10 years. And she's very spiritual, loved the video medium. And I spent a few years in the movie business as well. And I love interviewing people like you. And I love shaping the story. And I'm like, why don't I take the best people I know around leadership and create a platform with the best video. We did that. We raised a little bit of money, not too much, pre-seed of 300K, and we had this beautiful platform, yet almost no one was buying because HR people in France say, yes, right, quality video on leadership, we don't really care. Do you have something basically boring, basics, and cheap we can use now? No. And then I'm like, okay, and seeing this non-alignment with what I'm market this is an alignment with me but not an alignment with what the market wanted so I'm like okay let's study the market and I'm like there is a gap in the market in the leadership why don't I repackage everything I have and I create the best leadership platform the goal is this to form to create to lead a new style of leadership and within a new generation of leadership a new generation of leaders and I always say new generation the average age was 40 years old actually right they were anywhere between 32 to, I think, 49. The average is 40. When I say new generation, not just 25 years old, right? It can be 40, but a new style of leadership. A new mindset based, again, on taking risks, knowing yourself. As you saw, 50% of the course, it's a three-month course, 20 hours of pre-recorded video that we've done for the last three years. And then six coaching of 90 minutes each where it's entire enterprise. So, this year we had people from Microsoft but also from the army from the top fashion house in Paris we had entrepreneur the mix was great so much energy and the goal was to instill this taking risk understand about yourself understand about your posture and understand what is it to take leaders so we talk about a lot of vulnerability taking off your mask I really believe sometime in the corporate world you need to take off your mask be real show your authentic self and then Then I understand we're still in the corporate world. We still need to make business. Then, okay, fine. Put back your business mask, your corporate mask. But at least sometime, just you can breathe. take a pose, you tell how it is, and then you put back your mask. So this is what we teach, new generation of leaders, new kind of leadership based on authenticity, based on passion, based on purpose. So we created, my wife and I actually, it took us six months full-time to create the pedagogy, to create the learning process. And again, we're extremely happy with what we have. I mean, 20 students we have. And the goal is to have, my goal would be to have 1,000 students every year in the Francophonie, French-speaking country, or American. Our next cohort in September will be in French, but the goal is the following cohort in December will be in English. We have a lot of demand. I spent 20 years of my life outside of France, so I can't wait to make it English-speaking. And in a way, it will be, of course, easier, right? Especially with Scandinavian people. people who are already in this mindset

SPEAKER_04 33:48

just a few nuggets before you leave um i want you to talk about more uh about spirituality balance and how because you've obviously had a very very rich uh path which will continue i'm sure uh very diverse very fast-paced yeah how do you balance that what spirituality plays in the role in the mix uh what about your personal

SPEAKER_01 34:12

balancing situation. Sure. So I have a mantra also, another mantra. I tell myself, you know, three, four times a week, accelerate, decelerate, accelerate, decelerate. So as you see, my personality is very intense. I'm very aware of what I am. What people don't know is sometimes I just take day off. I call them either rest day or even trash day where I'll eat, you know, I take care of my health, but sometimes I just eat chips and I don't care. And I just watch and I can binge watching a series and I don't feel guilty. I could watch five episodes an hour each because sometimes I just don't take off the phone. I just don't do anything and just relax. So as long as it's... I have a few KPIs, if we can speak at first. First is I have a kid of seven years old. Every day, whenever I'm home, I need to have 40 minutes of quality time with him. I take him to do bike. I probably do more when I'm home because I'm the one bring him to school and taking him from school every day. So it's already, you know, two times 20 minutes plus 40 minutes. So it's like, you know, 90 minutes, I guess, of quality time where asking questions. So this is for me relaxing, recharging when I'm with him. And I tell him, I said, this is a great moment we spent. So the other day, for instance, we're having a bike ride. I said, Dad, is this moment even better than the other day when we had a marshmallow together in front of the fire at a friend's house? two weeks ago because I said there was nothing there was midnight everyone was speaking and we you know the very American thing right we took a marshmallow and we burn it under the fire and I was like what so good moment and appreciate and defining this moment telling people we spending a good moment the first part of my leadership life 10 years ago was about writing books authoring about everything happiness at work I was the first one to create chief happiness officer certificate and I create trainings all over the world, in Latin America, New York, France, on this. And so I was seen as a happiness specialist. And what I say is, no, I'm not happy all the time. I've downed my mind. I've depressed. I have depression in my life. Yet, there's moments of happiness. And I just dwell in it. I'm passionate about those moments. So yes, to answer your question, I decelerate. Sometimes I have called it journée poubelle, trash day. And it's okay, because we need we need to do nothing sometime and sometime because I can afford of course I'm an entrepreneur it can be during the week if I'm dead I do nothing it could be a Thursday and I will stay home I will stay in bed not doing forcing myself I would cancel meeting unless they're urgent so this is one advantage as an entrepreneur of course is you can take rest day during a week day not even a vacation so I'm very aware you know Of course, sports, I need sports every day, especially at 50 years old if I want to keep in good health. No matter what, sports. So when I get up in the morning, this sort of thing is how I'm going to feed my soul, how I'm going to feed my brain, how I'm going to feed my body every day, which I should do more sometimes. How should I feed my business more sometimes? So I'm very good at feeding my soul and nourishing myself spiritually and physically. I should ask myself, no. not to myself how should I nourish more my business even more but really this is so for me it's very important even so when people see me as a very intense guy no sometimes nothing and it could be three days in a row

SPEAKER_04 37:54

we're very ambivalent I like to think we're not just one thing we're many things at once so you're very connected to your inner self yes quite that's good so quick ones and you have to answer very quick what's the book or movie that change your perspective on life.

SPEAKER_01 38:13

Wall Street, first movie I watched, I loved it, with that Gecko guy and Charlie Sheen and Michael Douglas, of course. Loved it because it's about, you know, they really actually, it was not just about business, about the soul, right? When he goes down, I don't know if you remember the movie, Wall Street, but he decided not to make that billion dollar of money at the end of the movie, he just decided to listen. I read the book, actually. Oh, you read? Yeah. So this second book, another very business book, best business book ever, Barbarians at the Gate. It's about the buyout of RGR Nabisco. I don't know. I read that. I was in Japan. I was 19 years old. It was my business book. It's a 400-page book in English, Barbarians at the Gate. Why? There's a good thing that I learned about finance, actually, that I used in my life over and over. Leverage. Those guys, they had just a million dollars, and they ended up buying a company that was worth a billion. And they're just using the loan. So the concept, the financial conceptual concept of with one thing what is leverage you have been fascinated then of course on purpose I would say Viktor Frankl best book ever on life men's search for meaning

SPEAKER_03 39:28

I

SPEAKER_01 39:29

think there's a French translation as well best book on purpose and then I would say lately about habits and routines atomic habits amazing book and then what else could I say oh yeah and the art of war not Sun Tzu the war the Sun Tzu was the art of war but not the Sun Tzu one no it's about Stephen by Stephen Pressfield it's called the the war on art it's about the mental discipline it takes would be good for all the French people is how you how you do with that mental resistance I don't want to do that I'm lazy I don't want to do that

SPEAKER_04 40:09

your brain never wants

SPEAKER_01 40:10

never so how to fight the resistance Okay.

SPEAKER_04 40:14

If you could have dinner with your youngest off, what would you tell

SPEAKER_01 40:18

him? You will be loved one day.

SPEAKER_04 40:23

Okay. What's your go-to comfort food? Our favorite ice cream flavor when you do your trash

SPEAKER_01 40:28

day? I just had caramel ice cream in Tunisia yesterday. It was the best? It was the best ever.

SPEAKER_04 40:34

What's a small daily ritual that brings you joy?

SPEAKER_01 40:38

When I go to take my kids in the car every morning to go to school. So eight minutes ride. Every day I remind him of three things. Your goal today is to progress a tiny bit. Not to be the best at school. Progress. Number two is laugh as much as you can with In one

SPEAKER_04 41:07

word, what do you want to be remembered for?

SPEAKER_01 41:10

Impact. I've helped people realizing their potential.

SPEAKER_04 41:14

Amazing. What's one thing you've learned about inclusion, especially when it comes to supporting people from underrepresented or minority backgrounds? that you think every leader should hear?

SPEAKER_01 41:25

It's all about accessibility. Mark Cuban was interviewed, the same, the American billionaire, about, I want to be an entrepreneur, some guy on a podcast. Go where there is entrepreneurship. Go to LA, to Austin, Texas, to New York. Andy Warhol would have never become Andy Warhol if he had not left Detroit for New York in the 70s. Never, right? Mark Cuban never, if he had not gone to, I think, Wharton School of Business, same thing with Zuckerberg, if he had not been to Harvard. Accessibility. Go where people are like-minded where you want to be. You want to be in fashion, go to Paris. If you want to be in young entrepreneurship and to be a digital number, yeah, go to Canggu in Bali, go to Chiang Mai in Thailand, wherever. Go where people are like-minded yourself.

SPEAKER_04 42:21

Wonderful. Thank you so much, Arnaud. Thank you. Is there anything left that you'd like to say to the audience before we wrap up

SPEAKER_01 42:27

open yourself to failure express your failure this is how you're going to build more trust in you and more trust towards people you lead

SPEAKER_04 42:36

We will have to do a second episode. Let's do that. One month from now. Let's do it. Thank you so much for being on the podcast. Cheers. Really appreciate it. Thank you for listening to this podcast. Comment on this episode on the incubateher.net. For more tips and content, visit the paulinefrancois.net site. Don't forget to subscribe, share and review. I appreciate your support so much and I'll talk to you soon.