4: Dustin Rideout - MLSE

Dustin Rideout was the Head of Brand & Fan Experience for the Toronto Maple Leafs, Toronto Raptors and Toronto FC at Maple Leaf Sport & Entertainment. He was also a partner and head of strategy at Sid Lee in Toronto, Canada.

We talk about him making the move into pro sports from advertising, what he was looking for when hiring and where he sees the biggest opportunities for change in the industry. It was a great conversation filled with actionable tips for potential newcomers from someone who has rebuilt a marketing team in a sports front office. 

The two books the Dustin mentioned were "The Art Of The Start" by Guy Kawasaki and "First 90 Days" by Michael Watkins.  

Dustin's LinkedIn profile is here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dustinrideout/

Full show notes and transcripts can be found here: https://www.mtcpod.com

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Transcript

Ep 4 - Dustin Rideout MLSE

Christian Parsons:  [00:00:00]Coming up on Make The Cut. 

Dusting Rideout - MLSE: When I'm building teams, I'm looking to build the Muppet Show and I'm dating myself a little bit. For those of you who are  too young to remember. It was the Jim Henson show and it was this weird cast of characters.

They were all so different. You had Kermit the Frog and Ms Piggy. And you had a bear and you had a dog  and everybody was so different. But the one thing that they did and  every show would culminate too, is they would get together and they would sing harmony. And they would work as one perfectly, but they were all different.. 

   Christian Parsons: Welcome to the show. I'm Christian Parsons. On "Make The Cut" we deconstruct the career paths, work lessons and practical advice of the people who have built successful careers on the business side of pro sports. From the NHL to the NBA. From football to soccer. These are the stories of people who [00:01:00] make it happen off the field, off the ice, and off the court. 

Our goal is for you - our beautiful listener -  to leave with a better knowledge of what it's like to work in the world of pro sports. Different jobs that you didn't know existed and actionable steps to help you get your next job in sports. Dustin was the head of brand and fan experience for three teams in Toronto - the Toronto Maple Leafs, Toronto Raptors and Toronto FC at Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment. He was also the former partner and strategy head at Sid Lee in Toronto. 

We talk to him about, making the move into pro sports from advertising, what he was looking for when hiring, and where he sees the biggest opportunities for change in the industry. Let's dive into our conversation with Dustin Rideout.  

After 12 or 15 years in advertising, you took an opportunity to work in sports. What was the, what was the thinking behind changing it up from ad [00:02:00] agencies to drop into pro sports? 

Dusting Rideout - MLSE: Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, it, it, it was an opportune moment in time for me personally. So, um, I was with an agency, uh, called Sid Lee. And we had sold the agency and, and I was looking to do something different. And I was fortunate that, uh, I actually had a client in pro sports. So the Toronto Raptors had done quite a bit of work for as well as the Toronto Maple Leafs.

And so I had. You know, got to know the CMO.  Shannon Hosford and, and so we were just catching up one day and, uh, you know, through conversation, there was a need there to bring on somebody new, uh, to handle, not just, you know, the brand stuff, um, but also this growing area of fan experience.

And so it was really just a collision of happenstance and, um, you know, past relationships. 

Christian Parsons: Cool. So just like good timing. And good timing, 

Dusting Rideout - MLSE: I mean like most things, uh, [00:03:00] it, it, it was good timing. I mean, I was interested in exploring other avenues, you know, outside of, uh, advertising, specifically working for, you know, marketing the communication firm, I I've been doing that for quite some time.

And, and so I was open to the opportunity to, to stretch myself a little bit and look at, uh, another area to apply my craft. 

Christian Parsons: Awesome. Awesome. So you actually ran brand and fan experience at Maple Leaf Sports Entertainment, which is the holding company that has the Toronto Raptors from the NBA, the Toronto maple Leafs from the NHL Toronto FC and the Argonauts

Dusting Rideout - MLSE: the Argonauts had just come into the fold, um, you know, in the latter part of me being there. But yeah, the rest of their it's pretty big. I mean, it's, it's a very, you, we're lucky, uh, very unique here to have a company that. You know, owns three major sports teams. And so, yeah, it was pretty interesting.

Christian Parsons:  I mean, that's a pretty big job, especially in Canada where these [00:04:00] opportunities are just rare-er, right? There's, you know, six major markets with, with pro sports teams in them and then a bunch of AHL team s and CFL teams . What was the experience like in interviewing?

Was it an interview experience or like you said, was it just you're on a phone, you have a relationship they thought of you. 

Dusting Rideout - MLSE: Yeah. Yeah. I must admit, I, I had a bit of an unfair advantage. Um, it wasn't. And the, you know, traditional post, the job interview process.  The boss was my former client and had increasingly become a friend.

Um, and so there was that, but, you know, I, what I would say is I, I applied. You know, the same thing that people in pro sports do is if you have a, if you have an advantage somewhere, you need to exploit that advantage. And so, you know, I knew that, um, the organization had, uh, some roles that they were looking to fill and I was close to 

to quite a few people in the organization. And, and so I use that [00:05:00] obviously to my advantage. Um, but the interview process was still quite rigorous. I had to meet with quite a few people. Um, obviously, you know, the different people in HR, but other people in the organization, just to make sure that, you know, there was a a cultural fit there and a connection with people that I would be working with.

And for, and so we, we were quite rigorous there. Um, And then, you know, the onboarding process was really about getting to know the team and where there had to be, um, additions and shifts, because it was really about the first couple of months is building a completely new team, um, to service, uh, you know, where, where the evolving needs were in the, in the future.

Christian Parsons: And then how do you go, how do you go about even the evaluation process of that?  Even understanding, I'm assuming it's, it's, it's like three steps of , okay, here's where we are. Here's where we want to go. And then what's the gap in the [00:06:00] middle  .

Dusting Rideout - MLSE:  I mean for anybody that's read books, like The Art of the Start or The First 90 Days, you know, there's that similar basics of, spend the time getting to know people, listening , inside the organization and, , to your team to really kind of understand who the people are that you have to work with in the skillsets. But once you get past that, it's really driven from the direction of the business, the impetus of the role, and it was a collision of two roles previously, one that occupied, you know, the brand and the more call it traditional marketing aspect of it. And then the evolving area of fan experience was more encompassing of business intelligence, analytics,  CRM. The direction of the business was how do you grow? How do you grow in new ways? And that's really, you know, you know, probably better than anyone. , what's driving sports, professional sports organizations now is how do [00:07:00] you grow in new ways?

And we were really at the start of that journey. And fan experience was, , a growing and important area because the, the organization was really good at making money in the traditional ways. You know, they ticket sales for the most part wasn't, , a huge deal. They were either selling out or doing really well with ticket sales.

Um, the sponsorship ship group, um, global partnerships group, probably one of the best in pro sports. Um, there was very rarely a, a gap in a sponsorship category. And so they were really capitalizing well on, on that, um, You have, you know, bums in seats, you're doing pretty good with food and alcohol sales.

You know, there's only so much people can eat and drink during a game. And so how else do you make money? , you make money with the  smart use of data by providing your, your partners or sponsors new revenue opportunities, um, and [00:08:00] understanding the consumers intimately so that you can, you know, find new  future ways to monetize them, whether that be through content or,  in-person interaction. And so the goal of the new team was to service that, that business vision. 

And so as we started looking at, you know, who were traditionally in those roles, uh, and through lots of conversation and collaboration, we realized that the people that were doing those jobs today weren't necessarily, you know, the people that, you know, you needed to move forward.

And so we started looking outside of the organization outside of, you know, pro sports, um, more so, um, As we looked at filling kind of new roles and reorganizing the team. 

  Christian Parsons: So that's really interesting . Because I think a lot of organizations will just look for a pedigree of people within pro-sports who have like done the same thing with the New York Mets. Done the same thing with the Vancouver Canucks  right.  What was the reasoning for looking outside of pro sports? [00:09:00] Is it something that, because, because the organization you were looking to create or the team you were looking to create didn't have those skillsets inside or you're trying to change our culture? You're trying to chase new goals. I'm just trying to, 

Dusting Rideout - MLSE: Yeah. I mean really a combination of a bunch of those things and others. I mean, I think, you know, the. The first is, is that you having people that work inside of a business as valuable. First off, because, uh, you know, they come with a shorthand, they come with an understanding. There is a dynamic inside of pro sports that is unique. The business side of pro sports is unique unto itself. Um, but the reason why you're looking outside is quite simply what, you know, as I mentioned before, is if you're looking for new ways to grow, uh, that you have been in the past. Um, you want to be able to pull in expertise and individuals for people who've had that, that success or that experience in adjacent categories, because if it hasn't happened [00:10:00] inside your own four walls before, um, you're really dependent on venturing into new areas, you know, through an unknown.

And so the, the primary reason to look out there is there there's great talent that you can pull from marketing and communications firms firms, uh, you know, technology, uh, space, uh, humanities, other areas that can bring their own expertise and success of doing that so that you can speed up your own acceleration of change.

So that was the primary reason.  You know, the other one is more practical stuff is like, you know, you're pulling from a market that only, you know, has, you know, you know, so many pools, pool of talent in say, call it experience in pro sports. And so you, you really were looking at fresh talent. That's the main driver.

, I'd say the second one is the organization was going through its own transformation. , holistically. And so it wasn't just, the work that I was doing  and the [00:11:00] department that I was running that was going through that change. The whole organization was going through that change. They had brought in a large consultancy firm, do assessment , and plan out a vision for where the organization needed to go. So we were all part of that transformation happening. So it was pretty exciting time. 

Christian Parsons:  The one thing that I had not thought of before was when you talked about just getting an access to a larger talent pool. Cause even you look to the sports side of things, right.  As soon as people started realizing that  performance and peak performance required a psychological edge.

Then they were bringing in performance psychologist. As soon as the trainers started realizing that, um, sleep and recovery required a level of expertise, they brought in sleep scientists. Because they were aware that, Hey, I know that sleep is important, but I'm not a sleep scientist.

 I know that somebody's missing a a big three in a game four  of an NBA conference finals is going to do crazy shit to their ego and they need to [00:12:00] talk to somebody about that. Or they need to have the emotional toolkit to be able to rebound for the next game and still take that three.

Dusting Rideout - MLSE: Yeah, exactly. I mean, I think what you're touching on, which I've, I've always believed is that, you know, the business side of pro sports really moves to the pace that the sports side does. If the sports side is bringing in analytics and looking at different aspects of performance enhancement. The business as well.

If the, if the sports side is bringing in diversity, you know, the business side does, um, and, and the business aspect of it, the dynamics of working inside sports, it's V very much reflective of athletics and the environment of competition. You know, themes of competition, uh, you know, success, teamwork, um, [00:13:00] Uh, all of those things are very prevalent in the business world of sports for anybody who's, who's worked inside inside it.

Christian Parsons:  That's my biggest joy of it. Is being as close to the sport as possible as, as possible. And, and. Taking these lessons that come from sitting in a meeting with Kyle Dubas or Masai Ujiri or something like that, who, who are there to win a championship. Right. And they have a very clear deliverable and constraints and all of this kind of stuff in front of them and understanding how they make decisions and being able to pull lessons from that to be like, okay, cool.

And it sounds so trite when, when you think about it, but  I wonder how I could apply that to making a decision about a playoff campaign or the CRM campaign or something smaller.  Cause  that's the stuff that. That I, that I live for and I get really excited about, 

Dusting Rideout - MLSE: yeah, it's not to say that, you know, the, the sport operations people are myopic in that, the way that they operate, that, [00:14:00] that they treat, you know, how they select, uh, Uh, uh, a team or a coach or whatever is how they buy a marketing campaign.

That's not, not it, but there is a rhythm. We all lean towards our strengths and our rhythms. And there is a rhythm that, um, at least my experience, you know, pro sports, uh, the business side for our sports moves too. 

Christian Parsons: Cool. Very cool. All right. So do you ever think that it's too late to get into pro sports?

 Let's say somebody started as an accountant or a CRM manager, even worse,  a consultant of some sort. Do they still have a shot of transitioning and working in pro sports? 

Dusting Rideout - MLSE: I mean, I think that there's never been a more open and time than there is right now for pulling in talent from.

All different stages and walks of life into the pro sports arena. The theme that we keep talking about is that pro sports is going through [00:15:00] transformation in terms of how they grow, , how, how they sustain their success, , how they make money. , it's all evolving. , No just just this week in Canada, the big news was around sports betting and the changes that are happening there .

The advent of, of wagering inside pro sports, which is, you know, not that far away and we'll be okay.

Um, but that is going to be. You know, game-changing and I, you know, a lot of organizations are already investing significant resources to understand what their opportunities in places to play in that that's, that requires all kinds of different new skills and people of expertise that aren't within those four walls.

Obviously you can pull from, you know, the betting world, the lotto world. There's analytics, uh, specialty analytics that are required to understand that. [00:16:00] Um, there's new marketing skillsets that go along with that. So just even that one area yeah. Of, of growth, future growth, it's going to pull in all kinds of people with different levels of expertise and different tenures.

, when you're talking about, , data and technology, obviously that's something that you need to pull from, from outside and. You need a variety of people, of seniority and some really senior people, to pull into the organization that could have, you know, two decades worth of experience in something completely different than, than pro sports.

So I think that this is the best time to welcome a new people, uh, to the work organizations that have, have been quite insular in the, in the past. 

Christian Parsons: Got it. So within that say along all, along any, any league, there's a spectrum of teams, right? There's a spectrum of teams that want to be on the front end and the bleeding edge of who they're hiring, [00:17:00] you know, analytics and all, all the rest of that kind of stuff.

Like you look at the Houston Rockets  . And then there are teams that are a little bit slower on the uptake . And I would assume it's the same sort of thing for front offices,  for those elements of hiring. To your point on the, on the betting element there's probably some that are really, really bullish on that. And some that are like,  we've got like seven other things to worry about. We're going to worry about that later. How do you think about identifying those elements? If I worked at a lottery in marketing or something like that.

And I wanted to identify a team that I think would be like a rich target for, for that. How do I even go about that? Understanding that 

Dusting Rideout - MLSE: that's a great question. You know, I was actually thinking about this quite a bit, you know, before we jumped on. And so I, I would say that it's, it's no different than companies and categories that. You would think of more broadly there's categories that are known more, to be more [00:18:00] innovative, faster moving there's ones that are known to be less so slow big. and then there's also, players inside of categories that are slow old,  or fast moving, , and, and innovative.

And. It, it's actually not hard. Once you search around to find who are the people that are on one side of the camp or the others. You know, leagues  have a difference and w you know, to secure my own employment in the future, I won't say which ones are slower or faster moving than others, but, you know, there's certainly ones that are more innovative.

Um, you know, the NBA is certainly known to be more innovative than, than others, more open to change than others. They have an amazing commissioner who speaks very openly and outwardly about that. Um, so you can start on the league level, I suppose, but when you start digging into the ownership groups and the teams, [00:19:00] you quickly find lots being written about who's doing what.

I remember my first NBA meeting which was down in Florida. I believe it was the Orlando Magic. I believe it was Orlando Magic who really had embraced the philosophy of design thinking and had brought in somebody from IDEO to do, or, you know, a training course, um, and really had adopted that way of thinking and applying inside the organization.

That's like quite innovative, forget for just sports organization, but an organization at large to embrace something that's so innovative and, and very much designed human centered design and there's lots written about it. So you can go out and find that. And so when you're thinking about what organizations do I want to join, start searching for them in unexpected places.  Go beyond the, uh, Uh, publications in places that are written about what they do as a sports team, and look at more what they're doing at the business [00:20:00] aspect.

And you'll start to see which organizations are either more, nimble, more open to change, more open to experimentation. The other lens added is kind of touching on what we were saying previously, the bigger the organization, the larger, the transformation mandate tends to be. Because if they're already successful and they're already big the question of where, "Where am I going to source growth from?" becomes more pronounced. If you're Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment, as an example, there's a reason why that they are driving so much innovation. And over the recent years, they've hired so much, so many great talent is because they're already very successful. They're already very large. And so where are you going to source growth from a, you go to the other organizations around, around the world and you can kind of pick off the big ones you can tell based on valuation, which ones are the biggest ones they're [00:21:00] going to tend to be the ones that need to change the most.

Now there are of course, exceptions to that rules because of stalwart owners or, or markets and all that sort of stuff. But big tends to equal more change right now in, in pro sports, because of that necessity to find new ways to grow. 

Christian Parsons: That's really interesting. it's funny. Cause  my mindset would have been the opposite, which is not to say it's correct or incorrect.

Right. But that's a really good point that for maybe a smaller organizations, like let's say the Ottawa Senators in the NHL . Which are five hours down the road from, 

Dusting Rideout - MLSE: well, there's a reason why that organization doesn't change very quickly. Yeah. We'll just leave it at that. 

Christian Parsons: But some of , sorry,  the point that I was going for was some of these organizations need to get the basics right.

Dusting Rideout - MLSE: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And yeah. 

Christian Parsons: And if an organization is  in the situation of just trying to get the basics, right, they're likely not also trying to [00:22:00] do an overhaul and transformation. Unless they have new ownership or a new president or a new CEO or something like that, where he or she has been given a mandate from ownership to do that.

Dusting Rideout - MLSE: Yeah, I absolutely. And I think, I think your, your assessment there is right. If, if, if you're in a market or you're in a team where there's still a lot that you need to be able to solve for like, um, You know, you had, you had Brad Getty from the New Jersey Devils is like, they're a really interesting organization because like who, who they draw from in terms of a fan base is super diverse, super diverse.

And so understanding how you drive just something like ticket sales and where are you? So sourced from is, is far more complicated than other organizations. So there's basics that you need to focus on because they are drivers of the business. Um, however, there's always exceptions to that rule. I mean, I, I remember, um, you know, for the longest time, I don't know as much now, but, uh, for the longest [00:23:00] time people would talk about the Portland Timbers as a, as a very unique organization, small market in a smaller league.

Um, but how they drove, you know, fan experience and really looked at it from the customer out was quite innovative. And it was a reference point for a long time on how to succeed in building a great brand, a great fan base and a great culture inside of, uh, inside of an MLS team. You're still talking relatively small league, small teams, smaller budgets, , And that's an exception, you know, I would say more so than, than the rule that see, you tend to see more innovation coming from larger because of that necessity to grow or people who are visionary leaders, uh, that come from outside of the organization. 

Christian Parsons: Absolutely. And I think that there's also signals right? To go [00:24:00] back to a point that we made earlier about how the cadence of the sports side can get mimicked in the cadence of the, of the business side.

You look at an organization like the Miami Marlins and the hiring of Kim Ang. They want to win and they will go and source the best talent for that. They're willing to do something different  and hire the first female GM in, um, major on North American sports leagues.

Dusting Rideout - MLSE: There's people that just are inside of sports organizations there, they don't consider themselves bold, bold, and those moves, they just considered themselves modern individuals, you know? So whether it's, you know, somebody like Greg Popovich, you know, hiring a female assistant coach, I don't think he did that because he's out to set the, be this innovator or anything else.

He just isn't. A [00:25:00] modern human being saying, yeah, that's, that's what you do. That's what you should do now. Um, uh, Masai Ujiri is another great example of a lead leader. I don't know if he sets out to be like, I want to be known as an innovator and those sorts of things. He's just a good human being and a smart business person.

And so usually he realizes that if there's diversity inside of the organization, we as an organization win and have a competitive advantage. So I'm going to do that. 

Christian Parsons: And if somebody that they can add to the organization has the talent to increase that likelihood to win. They don't care where they came from. They don't care what their gender is. They don't care how they self identify. They just care that they can add value to the team and increase the percentage or opportunity of that team of winning a championship, which I think is awesome.

Right. It's so good. 

Dusting Rideout - MLSE: I think I would agree. I think I would agree with that too. To an extent. I think there is a,  there's an [00:26:00] increased human side of the business, which is, am I, am I doing the right thing? Am I being a modern individual? Am I reflecting? Is my organization or reflecting the people that I serve, serve my product to? people are spending more time with that.

It sounds it's a bit cliche now, but people are focusing more on that EQ than IQ. Um, it across the sports business world, which I think we all, we all own need, you know, succeed from. 

Christian Parsons: Absolutely and look, we're all just, you know, I think a lot of people are out here trying to make the best decisions possible.

Right. And part of, part of being able to make a decision in the best way possible is be aware of your own bias and try to strip that out. whether it's based on whether, how a candidate presents themselves in a meeting. 

Let's say we're interviewing somebody for a data analytics position.  The way that they talk and the way that they Present confidently might actually have very [00:27:00] little to do with their job. If they're really fucking smart. And they know exactly where the gaps are in the current analytics and they are able to present a plan on how to bring that up.

Then they actually don't need to present really confidently in an interview. You actually almost need to evaluate their work as opposed to their interview skills and understanding that will help us back away from the candidate that might be less qualified from a doing the job perspective, but comes across super confidently and super likable and super charismatic in an interview.

Dusting Rideout - MLSE: I agree. I mean, you know, you and I have had the pleasure of working together in a couple of occasions and you know my M.O. when I'm interviewing people is I just say, like, walk me through your work, take me through some of the work that you've done. Um, Cause everybody, you know, most good people can interview well.

Um, but it's really, until [00:28:00] you start going through their work and listening to them, talk about their own work, that you can really get a sense of how they think what their actual contribution was to that work, um, and how they might apply. You know, that's those same skills that you're seeing tangibly to, to the role that you're interviewing for.

Like, for me, that's, that's been. You know, my technique interviewing and pretty much every place I've ever worked is like, great. Walk me through what you've done. Take me through the details presented to me. However you want can be an article that you wrote. It can be a case study that you presented. It could be a brief that you wrote it.

It could be an event that you, you know, were part of putting on. It doesn't really matter. I just want to hear people talk about the work that they've been part of. That's really a lot from people. 

Christian Parsons: Yeah. That's really interesting. And that's insightful.  So when you're looking at that work or you're looking at them presenting that work, what are you looking for in talent? [00:29:00] There's hundreds of applications, how do people stand out and, and, and catch your eye to even get to that stage? 

Dusting Rideout - MLSE:  My evaluation criteria is, is, is very much shaped by the industry I've spent the most time in.

So for people in  ad land, this won't sound that unique, but there's a few things. I mean, the first is probably do they have a point of view? Um, right or wrong. Do they have a point of view, a prejudicial point of view that they're bringing to the table for, for everything that's the most important . Information is great, but I'm looking for insights that, that others don't have. Um, and so I'm, that's the first thing I'm looking for. Do they communicate with the prejudicial point of view, um, with passion, with conviction? Um, that's probably the most important of anything because if you work backwards from there, you can see, well, they have a point of view because they were able to, you know, analyze things in front of them and derive meaning from it.

So that's like the most important. 

[00:30:00] The other one is just, uh, are they. Are they interesting as, as individuals are they, are they interesting that I would want to spend time with? I I'd feel like that they would bring something to the party. Um, that's really good. And then I also put it in context of, uh, composition of teams and I, uh, uh, I stole this from a mentor of mine many years ago, but I've continued to, to.

Bring it forward. When I'm building teams, I'm looking to build the Muppet Show and I'm dating myself a little bit, but what is the analogy? Have I ever said that I've never heard? So, so the Muppet show, um, For those of you who are a tool to remain, uh, too young to remember. Um, it was, It was the show Jim Henson show and, and every week they would come on and it was this [00:31:00] weird cast of characters.

They were all so different. You had Kermit the frog and. Ms piggy. And you had a bear and you had a dog and he had these weird guys that you didn't know what they were, and everybody was so different. But the one thing that they did and  every show would culminate too, is they would get together and they would sing harmony.

And so they would sing a harmony. And they would work as one perfectly, but they were all different. They were all of these cast of characters but that's, uh, a big part of what I look at and building a team is, is the composition of it.

So in a minute of interviewing an individual, I'm not just thinking about them and what they're going to bring, I'm thinking about. Are they different than than other people. 

A friend of ours, um, Kwame Taylor Hosford w he said to me, um, specifically around diversity and inclusion is, is his, [00:32:00] uh, the way that he looks at it is when he is, has joined an organization.

He's looking at building teams, he walks into meetings and he actively looks at who's missing. Who's missing in the organizing, which for me, we spoke about this, uh, I think at the beginning stage of the pandemic, we were chatting and it just kind of blew my mind, mind as Kwame normally does, but he says, I just walk into meetings and I try to look for who's missing.

That could be a gender that could be a, a culture or race could be age. It could be whatever. Um, and I just thought that was like, wow, that's like so simple, but incredibly profound. And it stuck with me. And I'm trying to apply myself as like a walk in a meeting it's like, who's missing who sh, who is missing.

That would be representative of who we would want to hear. And then you go out and find those people and bring them into the organization. 

[00:33:00] Christian Parsons: I'm going to steal that. That's amazing. 

Dusting Rideout - MLSE: It's a good one, right? 

Christian Parsons: Because it's so simple, right? It it's so simple, but it's a complete reframe on how to how to look, look at things.

It's kind of, what's the, what's the hockey saying? You know, you don't, you don't look at the goalie. You look at, you, look at the gaps. Right. And in goal. Right. So it's, it's really interesting. for me personally, I'm I think I've been staring at the goalie a whole, whole lot of the time versus versus who's missing that's.

That's awesome. Um, and I think the second point that I just want to  bring back to you about your Muppet example that I really liked. You talked about having a cast of characters that's different. That's able to bring different skill sets and perspectives and points of view. But I think the second part that's really important is that they all sync together in harmony.

Dusting Rideout - MLSE: Someone that you and I, uh, both, uh, worked for, um, Bertrand Cesvet uh, uh, there's a CEO of, um, Sid Lee, you know, [00:34:00] he would talk about, um, the three things that strata like really great strategists need to have. And the first two tend to come easier than the third tend to not come as natural.

The first thing that you ask a strategist in a marketing communications world is like, we need you to be right. You need, you need to come up with something, find something that's distinct, unique, directional, and it needs to be right. Good strategists tend to be good at that first one. The second one is we need you to defend that thing that you're being right at.

You, you need to be able to have the ability when it's challenged to provide substantiation. To convince people that it is the right thing. And  good strategists tend to be pretty good at that as well. The third thing that you is a good strategist is then to create harmony. Because you might not convince everybody that you're right, but you still have to move [00:35:00] forward. In an advertising world we, we live by deadlines. Everything that we do is based on deadlines, we charge for the most part still based on time. So you need to move forward. Strategists don't all tend to be as good at that harmony part. Because, because we put so much emphasis on be right and defend why you're right. Um, and, and so the importance of harmony is if we can't put perfectly aligned.

On what I want you to align to, how can we still move forward? And that's where the harmony that, you know, comes in. How can you still get people together when you might not all be on the same wavelength? And that's probably not just as a strategist or marketing communications. It's probably one of the most important skills successful people have is the ability to create harmony.

Even when people aren't seeing eye to [00:36:00] eye. 

Christian Parsons: Absolutely.  Those are completely different skill sets . To be, to be right into, to, to be able to defend that you're right. Is an individual race, right? That's like you're running a hundred meters, whereas, you know, to be able to build harmony that's not about

running really fast. In football that's about running a re route well or blocking well, or being able to, to, to read your offense or defense or whatever it is. you're not one piece by yourself. You're one piece with , 21 other people on the field at the same time. Yeah.

Dusting Rideout - MLSE: So, so you bring it, bring it back to sports is in my humble opinion, what's, what's the best sports league that imbues the power of harmony is the NHL. You know, hockey as a game apartment, you, you, you do not win a Stanley Cup by bringing in a couple of superstars and, and your, your, your chances of winning a Stanley cup go up significantly.

That's not how it works. The St. Louis [00:37:00] St. Louis blues at the most recently proved that, um, where other sports leagues, you, you, you can buy championships. You definitely can buy a championships. The Lakers proved that this year, um, There's been other NBA teams that have proved that. 

 but you can't win a Stanley Cup just by bringing in a couple of stacked stars because the game requires you to operate under harmony. It is the ultimate game where the crew is King and I think being successful in a marketing communications function, whether it be in, um, professional sports or not, it very much imbues the same qualities of NHL.

Christian Parsons: Cool. Interesting.  If somebody wants to break into, and I'm going to use marketing because that's your realm of expertise. Um, but they want to break into marketing for a pro sports team, you know, and maybe they're coming out of college or a couple of a couple of years into a career that they're like, Hm, I want to try something different.

What's an actual, [00:38:00] actionable step that they can take to bring themselves closer to that goal. 

Dusting Rideout - MLSE: Yeah. I mean,

Anybody who's obsessive about the space. Um, we'll draw a level of attraction to themselves. Um, somebody who, you know, will maybe we'll take something as an example, like somebody who's obsessive about the content. In which a pro sports league produces and, and just lives and breathes it. Anybody who consumes their craft as entertainment for me becomes instantly, um, attractive, uh, as a candidate.

so the strategy has been my, my lean for a long time. And in the ad agency, world, whenever a strategist is consuming at like ad as entertainment. And like, it doesn't just rhyme off the stuff that we would always know, but like talks about a campaign or something that a brand did.

Why they found it really [00:39:00] interesting, like those are people already that have my attention because they're obsessive like of the business as I am. I mean, I, whether you, you say that that's like a positive or kind of sad, like I love advertising, I love ads. Um, and so I, I w I consume it as entertainment. And so that for me is the first one is like, are people like super engaged?

In the space in which they are, if you're interviewing for a social media role inside of sports team, are they telling me like, why they love, how one team versus the other approach, their social voice and how they go at certain teams, or they kind of create things out of new, um, Or they they're, they're talking about that mascot

that's crazy. And does these amazing things, like whatever it is, it doesn't really matter or do they have a depth of passion? I think that's probably one of the most important things. And then the second is have they really, if they don't come from pro [00:40:00] sports and they come from outside, are they spending time highlighting for me the transferable skills versus have me see it? Because that's what somebody is going to look to.

That's what you're going to have to convince. Especially somebody who's been in pro sports for a long time. They're going to have to get over the hurdle themselves of, well, they haven't spent the time in the space and I need to have the confidence that they can. Uh, make the move, um, to make me look good right there.

Wrongly people still look at themselves like they don't want to be embarrassed if I'm going to hire a, I don't want to be embarrassed or be seen that I took a chance that didn't work out and so help people see the transferable skills. Don't assume that they're going to see it. They're going to be meeting with all kinds of different candidates who knows what happened.

Uh, Yeah. During their day before they met you, who, who knows what they're thinking about [00:41:00] for the meeting or two afterwards? So don't make the interviewer work, pull it out for them on a, uh, on a silver platter and say, Here's what I'm passionate about. Here's what I love. Here's what I've done, where I think it's very relevant to what I'm seeing in the organization.

Yada, yada, yada, um, don't make people work, show them. 

Christian Parsons: That's  really helpful . I think a lot of people require the interviewer to do the work and connect the dots. And if you serve it up to them on a silver platter, just. To your point, make it really easy to say yes.

 One of the things that you just talked about that I thought  was interesting is that you consume ads for fun ?

you dropped into pro sports from advertising, and now you're back in advertising again. Is that because  the passion is there , I watched the Super Bowl for the ads and not the football, um, or both, what's the story behind that?

Dusting Rideout - MLSE: Yeah. So, I mean, for me, I, I love change, as a general concept. I [00:42:00] think there, there are people that are wired a certain way that they, when it comes to change you either, um, you either freeze, you resist it, uh, you freeze and you do nothing. Uh, or you run towards it. Um, and I've always been a person that's run towards change.

It's, you know, I think the future is, I think the future exciting is exciting. I find the past boring and so that's probably the one reason, um, I love. It w why I still work in that agency worlds, is it constantly changing? And, um, the client mandates are constantly evolving. Um, and it really just kind of keeps you on your toes all the time.

It wasn't a conscious effort necessarily to move back to, to, to advertising. Um, it was more just, uh, you know, where. Where can I impact the most change? My, my time at MLSE was, was short and it was good, even though I, I really [00:43:00] had like a three-year kind of working relationship with them. Just two of those years happened to be, uh, you know, when I was, when I was working at the agency.

Um, but I had felt my impact, you know, of major change had, had already been in place, built a team. You know, set foundations for, for the brands, uh, in the vision, moving forward and brought in some amazing people. And so when I decided to leave and go back to my roots in advertising, um, I felt really good about, you know, you know, what I had left and, um, but for me it's about change and where can I.

Be part of an impact, the most change. And so that's, what was the big impetus for me, you know, kind of going back over to this role and maybe I'll go back to pro sports as an employee, uh, you know, in sometime in the future, uh, who knows. Um, but it would have to be, you know, inside of an organization that, you know, has to has a big Chan change mandate, um, and, [00:44:00] and, and where I can help impact it.

Christian Parsons: Awesome.  this is for me and for fun. Just understanding is there a favorite memory from being in the office at MLSE, you know, either on the field, on the court, on the ice, you know, and what did you, what'd you learn from it?

Dusting Rideout - MLSE: Uh, so, so there's been two. Um, the first one was, I think it was three, three or four days after we had launched, uh, We The North for the Toronto Raptors. And so, you know, a bit of history there, um, for your listeners. I ran strategy and agency called Sid Lee. And, uh, and we had developed a full rebrand for the Toronto Raptors, new logo uniforms, and a new brand platform for them and a wildly successful beyond anything that we would've expected, like true culture shaping work.

Uh, and it continues on to this day. Um, I was at a [00:45:00] game with, uh, one of my creative partners and we were sitting side by side. And there was a whole row of, um, South Asian kids, uh, two rows in front of us and they had all cut out. We The North and holding it up and chanting it. This is like three or four days after.

This had launched. And I just kinda looked over at him and I said, you know, it, it might never get better than that in our careers, because it was not, uh,

Christian Parsons:  and you didn't pay them. They, they weren't like plants.

Dusting Rideout - MLSE:  No, no, not at all. Not at all. And this was early in it, like. Those those three words have, have become part of Canadian culture, um, and, and spread outside of our borders for that matter.

And so obviously the success there, there is undeniable, but when we first saw that and it was like, Who we saw it with when we saw it with how, and, and it was reflecting [00:46:00] our work. Um, that was probably not just  my greatest time in sports, but as a, as a professional, it was the most validating, um, for sure.

Um, the other time I think was, um,

we all develop amazing friendships, uh, you know, in our work lives because our work lives blur so much with our personal, but your work lives really blooper. Um, when it, when it comes into professional sports, because a lot of part of the job is what others would consider after hours, uh, you know, evenings at games and all those sorts of things.

And so the friendships that I was able to form with the people that I worked with both clients and not like these are, you know, these are lifelong friends. Um, you know, people that we both know, Michael Bartlett, at MLSE is one of my best friends. you know, Shannon Hosford client, boss, [00:47:00] mentor friend. David Hopkinson, you know, mentor, uh, You know, advocate, supporter kind.

I've never met, uh, somebody, uh, an executive who, who is more accessible than somebody like that. And I, you know, the list goes on and on and on. Um, the friendship forming is probably the thing that. That I look most fondly on. 

Christian Parsons: Absolutely. That's so that's so cool to hear . That it's not some glitzy star interaction.

It's really the relationships that you're able to build and bring, bring forward and, and lasts beyond your time at an organization. I think a lot of times people think about. Hey, what's the star power, this or the interaction with the player of that. And it's really refreshing to hear.

Yeah.

Dusting Rideout - MLSE:  I mean, there's been those moments, uh, you know, those moments too, like the awe of, you know, the first time that you walk out onto the court. Court when no one's in [00:48:00] the stadium that like, those are moments, like there's all of those moments, you know, being close to one of the stars, all of that stuff is, is cool, obviously, but I don't know if it's the most, the thing that I would say the most memorable, for sure.

For sure. 

Christian Parsons: All right. So we're wrapping up here. Is there anything that I haven't asked you that you would like to say to our, our audience. 

Dusting Rideout - MLSE: Well, I would actually love to ask you a question. I mean, I'm sure you know, so you have one first, I would say, congratulations on all your success and you know, this new podcast.

I think it's wonderful that you're doing it. Um, I I've listened to all the episodes, those, and I think they're great. And for people who are looking for jobs in sports, um, or enhancing their career, I think, uh, it's very unique. So congratulations on your success. Um, I would love to hear from you where you think the opportunity is for, uh, transformation and professional [00:49:00] sports today.

Not as much like the games itself, but you know, the business of sports, like where are you seeing the most opportunity for transformation? 

Christian Parsons: Yeah. One of the unlocks that  it's a little bit more of a  mindset shift within organizations than anything else. One of the big things that you actually mentioned at the top of the podcast that we talked about earlier was making money.

And I think a lot of times people are very myopic and very shortsighted about making money right now. Right now, right now, Hey, we need to get butts in seats. We need to sell this sponsorship. We need to do this, that, or the other thing. From my perspective, a sports organizations, most valuable asset is not its ability to win a championship.

It's not Patrick Maholmes. It's not,  it's season ticket member base .  a sports franchise, most valuable asset is its audience. Its its fans. So everything that you should be doing should be investing in growing that audience. And you [00:50:00] talked about it with MLSE and having the fan experience, uh, opportunity and role.

And I think the more organizations that are able to focus on that,  that are able to invest behind that, are able to understand that, are going to do better and better and better. 

You need to grow your audience and you need to value your audience. And what that means to me is not only value of their time and attention value their opinions, listen to them, test learn, try things.  

Dusting Rideout - MLSE: I think what you're touching on, which I agree is like really.

Really have a narrow focus on what are you, what are you truly selling? What do you truly have to offer? I mean, I think the, to give credit to MLSE and the Raptors organization, you know, when we're working on the rebrand and there is a commitment all the way up the chain,  it helps to have a, a CEO like Tim Leiweke at the helm for this, but what they all understood as, like what we're actually selling is belonging.

Hmm. And, and, [00:51:00] and that's really the essence of what, what made We The North so successful is I'm sure the words itself are catchy and, and, and the, and the way it looked, it had swagger to it. But what really understood was we're trying to unite a very diverse fan base in a market that, uh, historically was on the outside.

Like that's the whole strategy behind that, that We The North platform is that we're outsiders playing our own game. It's a very simple  strategy with, uh, with a very singular commitment is we're selling belonging and that's, what's gonna make us attractive. And it's worked like gangbusters.

That's not the answer for every sports organization obviously, but, um, understanding what you're selling, truly selling. And it tends to be what comes from the people. Um, I think you're right. 

 Christian Parsons: A huge, thank you to Dustin for joining us. Like many of our first [00:52:00] guests, we actually worked together. Twice, actually. I know I'm certainly walking away from this conversation with some new perspectives and ways to frame situations. I really liked the lesson he shared from our mutual friend, Kwame. You know, walk into a meeting and look for who's missing. who's not at the table. Super interesting viewpoint in something that I'm going to try to apply . 

As you can see I'm new at this. any feedback that you have that could help us make the show better is greatly appreciated. Once again, I'm Christian Parsons. You can reach me @ThisIsParsons on Twitter and Instagram. You can see our show notes and transcripts at mtcpod.com.  That's M-T-C-P-O-D.com.   

I hope that you're able to learn something valuable from every single episode of the show. If you found it helpful, I ask that you share it with friends. Now, get out there and get hired in sports.