Trust is in the Small Moments with Bree Bainard-Verruyt

In this week's episode of Uncomplicating Business, I sit down with my amazing friend Bree Bainard-Verruyt to (yes, once again) jump into the world of trust - and spoiler alert: it's all about those tiny, seemingly insignificant steps. 

We chat about how trust isn't some massive leap of faith, but something built in small, everyday moments. Bree shares her journey of learning to trust herself in business, letting go of perfectionism, and creating space for curiosity and growth. 

Plus? 

We talk about the challenges of finding and keeping white space (time to think!) and how we each manage it. 

If you've ever felt stuck or overwhelmed by the pressure to have everything figured out, this episode is your permission slip to play, experiment, and trust the process. 

Ready to hear all of it? Let's uncomplicate trust together! 

Join the free Uncomplicate Your Business + Make Your Whole Life Easier Workshop on 9/18: https://torpeycoaching.kit.com/uncomplicate

Bree Bainard-Verruyt:

Bree is the founder of BeeVee Pro, a team-powered strategy and implementation agency helping entrepreneurs move from the buzz of chaos to the hum of aligned growth. Together, they bring grounded support, safe space, and smart systems to get business dreams out of your head and into action - so you, your team, and your clients can thrive. Because growing a business isn’t meant to be a solo flight.

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Sara Torpey:

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Check out Selling for Weirdos here: ThinkificSelling for Weirdos with Sara Torpey

Transcript

Hello, my friends. Welcome to uncomplicating business. We are going to make things simple with one of my favorite people today, before I hop in and do that, today is going to be Tuesday the 16th, and I'm doing a workshop on Thursday the 18th called uncomplicate your business and your whole life, or, I think it's actually called uncomplicate your business and make your whole life easier. But Same, same.

 The only thing we're not going to fix is laundry, because, for me, laundry is unfixable. But the link to sign up for it is in the show notes or the transcript or the wherever we are, it'll it just go to the page and it will be there, because Bree and her amazing team actually do that for me, because they're the most amazing. I am so excited to have my friend Bree here today. I always say that the people I interview and I bring on here are my favorite people, but that's true, because, like, when people cold pitch me interviews.

 I'm like, Oh no, I don't know you. I don't do that at all. I only bring on people I adore. So I am really happy to be talking about trust with Bree today, she does a lot of things. I'm going to let her tell you a little bit about it, but one of the things I can tell you is she and her team are the behind the scenes that make this podcast exist. They keep my sanity on track. They check in with me and are like, hey, this thing you were gonna do, did you ever do that? And I'm like, Oh, yeah. Like, they do a lot for me and really well, and it's appreciated. So she will have a lot of really important thoughts on trust, because she works with a lot of people who run businesses, but also runs her own and does multiple things, and, you know, has like children and a life and all the other stuff. It's like all the things at once she knows.

 So hello, my friend. How are you? Well?

Thank you. Thank you for having me on alright. Oh, my God, be with you.
Oh, I'm delighted tell people better than I did, what you do?
Okay? I will try, because I feel like it's always like a work I progress.
It's like a quiz in the worst way it evolves.

But we really like to work with consultants. Sorry. We really like to work with consultants, healers and change makers who are changing the way we do things in the world, like leadership consultants or coaches or people who are making an impact. And just we really want to help support them in that it's such a lonely business journey, and you feel like you have to wear all the hats. And so we really love teaming up with our clients and walking out with them. What do you like to help you with? Like, is your messaging going right? Are you do you have a strategy in place? Do we have a plan? What are the pieces that are missing? What's going well? What can we improve, and where are the gaps? And then, how can we help support you in filling all those things so that you can do all the things that you love, and we can help you do the rest, and you can go out there and support and do all the impact for everybody that you do, because I think it's amazing. And I usually love to find girl on everybody, because all the things that everybody does are things that I'm crazy, crazy excited and in love with.

Isn't that the most fun? Like, I love, I love that part of working with other people where you're like, seriously, do you know how smart you are? Like, I don't. It is fascinating to be in other people's stuff, and then they're like, oh, I don't know if this is that good. You're like, hey, excuse me. Like, over here, pay attention. You're insane, right? Do you know how many people's lives that you change and make so much better? Like, I want to help you do that. Yeah. So can we do it with me too?

Yeah. I'm constantly like, How much is it for me to do that actually have somebody that's building something new, my friend Jess or she, so if you don't know her, you should follow her. She's amazing. Is building a new thing. She's calling build together. And I just posted it on LinkedIn because I was like, she's so freaking smart I can't even just ridiculous. So at any rate, we're going to talk about trust, because that's what we're talking what we're talking about in 2025 because that is the beginning, the end, in the middle of all the things. And I know people are like but it's September. Are we done with this yet? 

And the answer is no. So for you, my dear friend, tell me what it means to you, just at the outset, to trust yourself in your business right now. Like, if you have to explain what trust in yourself and your business is to someone else out in the world, what? How do you explain that?

For me, trust is like alignment. It's like believing that things that are going to happen are going to happen in the right way, the right time, that my values, my intuition, all of my strategy, all of it's going to line up, and it's going to come with clarity as we do it, like you like it comes from the doing. I find like when you take those small steps, when you feel the things that feel good, see the possibilities, and then even if it's just like taking that step and finding that, it's a learning opportunity. Maybe rather than what you thought it would be. But just like moving forward and seeing what comes well, and it's interesting that, like the idea in there is that trust comes from the doing, right? I think people just like confidence comes from the doing, right? Wait, trust is the step before doing. 

That's the weird conflict in there, right? We have to trust it to do it, but we have to do it to build our trust. And it's like a really messed up circle. It's like that
whole, like, you can't get a job until you have experience. You can't get experience you can't get experience until you have a job. Like, is that whole that loop happens in so many different ways, I feel like in our lives, yes, but it's interesting that it's like trust is trusting doing right, that you just take the step and it's going to work out that like you do the things and you do what's yours to do? The thing I say all the time is all I can do is what's mine to do, and that's what you can trust. And the rest has gotta work itself out.

Yeah, doing and being like, I feel like beings in there too. Like being yourself, bringing what you have to the thing, being you and attracting the right people to help support you, or help you your community, or things like that as well, like being in the right spaces. Like there's a lot of that, I think too. I think they kind of go in combination well.

And I think what people get tripped up on is the idea of right in there. But if you are doing and being from trust, you'll be in the right spaces, you'll meet the right people, you'll say the right thing, you'll do all that stuff. It won't be even what you think it sound was going to sound like, like the thing that comes out of your mouth that people will be like, oh well. You'll be like, Where'd that come from? Right if you ever said stuff, and you're like, I don't know what that was, but it was great. Go.
Me fat, but man, I was amazing right now. And Nico and like, did that exactly
so many times. And at the beginning of the year I did this, like, weird, I guess, trust with like, the universe, or whatever you want to call it, that I was like, okay, you know what? This year, I want to find myself in different spaces. I want to find myself in with new people and experiencing new things.

 And I kept winning tickets to things, or getting offered three seats to different things. And I was like, Okay, I guess I'm going there. Like, like, seriously, like, I just kept winning tickets, winning tickets, or getting gifted tickets. And I'm like, then I need to clear my schedule and go there, because this is what's coming up for me. And so it's been a really interesting experiment this year with just like, where am I going? Where do I need to be well? And the universe was like, you said you were gonna say yes. So where would you here's where we're gonna send you. Like, that's, there are times you're like, oh, wait, hold on, I didn't. Well, okay. Well, that's all right, yeah. I mean 2025, has been the year of change here in Torpey land. So I, I feel that where you're like, Oh, this is, I guess we are trusting this.

Hey, okay, my talk, wow, girl, that's the next episode I have to record. It's like lessons from change and trust. I was just writing them down earlier. So trusting doing is fine and well, but how did you learn to do that? Because it's not like you woke up one day and you're like, I trust this. This is amazing. And you don't wake up even today and think, I trust this. This is amazing. So, like, what is the learning like? Like, what is the process, right? Like, what? How say, the things. How does this work?

I think a lot of it has been I would love to say that it was all an inside job, but it's not for me. For me, I would I'd love to say that I just had this like, and I now trust myself. That's so not how it happened. A lot of it is the reflections back from other people, from surrounding myself with coaches and, like, having people say, like, Do you realize how much you know, and I'm like, What? No, this is just the thing I do, or that having to, like, let go of perfection and just be, like, almost getting permission from other people, even, like, but what if you just tried? What if you just tried and see what happened? And like, what if we think of it as a curiosity? And I love being curious.

 I love being curious about everything, learning about everything. So that really helped me to kind of let go of it a bit too, is making it more of like an experiment or a curiosity. And let's just play a little. Let's see how it can happen. And even if I'm scared, let's try doing things anyways and see what will happen from it, like who, who comes in? What's the ripple effect? What's the things that come from doing it. And one of the other things that really helped me is, I'm sure you're familiar with Brendan Bouchard.

 I was, like, on one of his calls or something, and it was like, years and years ago. And there was one thing that stuck with me, and he said that, you know, as long as you know 10% more than anybody else in the room, you're the expert in the room. Because. I am so much pressure on myself that I had to have all the answers, and I had to know all the things before I could even start.

 And I just really try to remember that, that I'm like, You know what? I can know 10% more. 10% really isn't that much, but I can still help people with 10% more, I can still make an impact or do more, and then I can learn the next 10% and then I can learn the next 10% right? Like that. I can evolve it. I don't have to do it all before I can even get started. And that really helped me to kind of give myself permission to ease off a little bit. And sometimes I realize that, like, I put so much extra pressure on myself, and then when I'm talking to clients, or I'm talking to my team members, I'm realizing that they don't have the same pressure on me that I have on myself. And it's like, I know, you know what? I know that this is, like, three weeks out, but I wanted to have it done today. 

They're like, dude, if it was done a week before it was good. I'm like, but this is, like, what I want. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I put such high stalls and pressure on myself that sometimes I forget that there's a little bit more leeway too than I give myself to well. And it's, it's always amazing to me that a the standards we expect for ourselves are so much are like insane number one and number two that like the minute somebody else needed leniency with that standard, we'd be like, cool, it's fine. 

Next week is fine, and then we forget that. We just said that to them, but also applies to us, like the number of times in a day I have little sticky notes on my desk and I write down a note that's like, Oh, this is for me too. I'll be taking that coaching with me. Thanks for playing. Like, there's an advice on my bathroom here, right? We're like, dull. I have like, 1000s of little notes in my planner, and the things where I'm like, um, Sara, should listen to Sara today, because that would be nice, or a client says something, and I'm like, Huh, okay, but it made that one of the things I think you started with here is something I think about a lot as, actually, from when I was newer at this, which is The idea of borrowing trust right from other people, like someone else has trust in your abilities that you do not, and you get to look around and be like, Oh, well, if they trust me, I can trust me, right? I have had that in so many ways where, like, you know, the first coach I worked with had this, like, lengthy application process, which I have thoughts about at this point, but that's a whole separate story. 

And I used to think one of the things that used to help me is like she accepted me. She saw something, so I would borrow her trust in that I had expertise worthy of sharing when I didn't think I did. And that went on for a really long time. The other thing I will say is your 10% ahead is everyone else's first year of teaching where you're like, I thought I was going to know all of this before I started. But turns out I'm on Tuesday and we're on Monday because at a certain point, like, you're not that far ahead, and it's you have to get good at being like, I'm a little far ahead, but not real far ahead, especially if they were like, oh, did you teach eighth grade math this year? Now you teach sixth grade science, and you're like, shit, do I all right, and it's tomorrow. 

You said, Okay, I don't know anything about I can remember the first year I was in the school district, I was in the longest he was like, oh, eighth grade science, your entire first four months are about the Grand Canyon. And I was like, Okay, well, okay, not a geologist, but I guess I'm going to learn some stuff in like I was learning, I don't 10% would have been generous for me to be ahead. Like, really generous, like, aggressively generous. I was, like, 1% ahead, but I was ahead. And I knew things about being a person that you know 13 year olds didn't, but I think that's everybody. The thing I always say to people is like, you know who Neil deGrasse Tyson is the astrophysicist. He's like a science guy. He's like the Planetary Science Guy, if you go on Tiktok or other places, he's like from wherever. But all I can think all the time is like he doesn't know everything.

 And if it's okay for him to be out there and not know everything, then it's really okay for me, right? Like he doesn't know everything about the planets, and yet he is, like the guy, so okay, if it's okay for him to not know everything and be the expert, then I'm, I'm, somehow that works for me. Somehow, that's permission. I don't know if it's the same, because I don't have any and what else?

 What else came up for me along the way too, is that if I don't have the answer, I have I've gotten confidence, and I trust in myself that I can find it like, you know, there's YouTube, university, I can Google stuff, there's chat, GBT, whatever. If I don't have the answer, I can find ways to find the answers that I don't know to help fill in the gaps while, while I'm learning too, right? So that became like. But you know what, I could figure it out. So, like, just be more solution focused, too. And if I don't have that 10% ahead, and maybe it was 9% but I needed the extra one, I can go find it. I can figure that part out.

Yeah, well, and you know, to add on to that, I always think, I've always figured it out before. Like, I am not at any I have never gotten to a dead end and thought, like, guess I have to start over, right? Like, I've always figured it out before, whether it's with time or money or anything else, it's always worked out. It's always been figured out. So, like, today's the day, it's not going to get figured out. Like, what are the odds of that? Real, real small, real, real small. So if you're, like, taking the math perspective. You know, every time I've come up against something in 46 years, I figured it out. 

Today's the day we're going to stop figuring things out. I don't think so, right? Like, and so it's like, oh, well, okay, I guess I and then you're like, Wait, who do I know worst toes or worse? As my child would say, I don't like asking for help, and sometimes I have to you, you reach out, because there are people that know and you know them, and if you don't know them, you know someone who does right. No expert is more than two layers away from you, which I think is fascinating, like somebody you know knows the person right. It's true. That's fascinating to me. But if you really think about it, like, that's true.

 I never thought about it from the expert thing, but I was just going through something similar with my daughter, because she's trying to figure she's 19, and she's trying to figure out what she wants to do with her life. And I'm really trying to be like, there's no gun to your head. You don't have to go to school, you don't have to whatever, like, play, go, try some stuff on, then figure it out, or whatever. Like, it doesn't have to look the way that everybody says it does. And I'm like, and if you want to try something on, like, I probably know somebody you can go talk to and interview about it, or whatever. And I'm like, and if I don't know, I know somebody who probably knows somebody who you could and we could figure that out. And literally, she's like, been going on one thing. And I'm like, Okay, here's this person you can go interview. And here's this person you can go interview, and this, she's like, you really do know somebody for everything, but I never thought about it from the expert perspective, like, I knew about it for her for that, right? But that's so true.

But it is like, you, there is somebody doesn't matter what you're going to come up against. That same process is going to apply once you have the process, yeah?
Like, somebody knows, right? And then it's the asking, and the asking is uncomfortable, and I get it right. Like, I think you know, trusting yourself to ask is hard, but it is that you trust, you know, your own capabilities, and that makes a difference, and that's interesting. So what do you think learning to trust your business has looked like? Like? Is it the same or different as learning to trust yourself?

Think it's very similar. I think it's very similar. Like it's for me, it's like, the the trying it, the experimenting with it, the doing the stuff, the working with different clients, till I find the one that, oh, you know what? Like? This is like part of the process. I figured out that I like these things, and this is where I can really help people, or this is where I love to geek out, and this is where I can support or whatever, like that, and then just trusting that, like I feel like, for me too, like my business is almost a reflection, sometimes, of where I am too. Like, if I'm struggling my personal life, it's kind of struggling over here too. So it's like a checkpoint too. Sometimes we don't see it on one side, but we find it on the other, right and so, so yeah, I feel like they're very similar. And sometimes kind of almost go parallel. That way.
You're like, oh, parallel rats, right? 

QUESTION
related, though, because I know you have a team, so talk to me about the kinds of trust that building a team has taken.

That came really differently, too, and like I I started building a team, and when I did, I knew that I didn't want to do it in ways that I'd heard other people have jobs. I didn't want to be a dictator leader who was like, my way is the only way. I wanted to do it, where we empowered each other and we grow together, both personally and professionally. I don't know how not to have dual relationships, so I'm just owning that. That's the thing. I'm like, You know what? I'm just going to love on you a lot. Like, probably going to hang out, have dinners, do things if we can, and stuff like that. Like, I'm going to want to know all about your weekend, and not just that you know that you did this work thing or whatever. 

And so there wasn't really a business book like eight, nine years ago when I got started on how to do a team like that. Yeah, and I found what I was looking for when we were working with our client, Elaine Alec, who's an indigenous leader, who created this amazing framework called cultivating safe spaces. And through that, I had to learn like, it's okay to trust there are people that have strengths in different areas, and we need all of those areas together to be able to, like, bring the best support, and to be able to be able to capture those gaps and those things, like, I can't see it all.

 From my perspective, I need all the other perspectives in there too, and other strengths, right? So, like, where I'll go in and I'll have a client meeting and I make my messy shorthand notes. I have another team member who comes in and she makes them mad. She's, like, made into a workflow. Now other people can understand that there's has said headings and subheadings. And I'm like, you're amazing. Like, you know, like, kind of having those experiences and being like, oh, there are people that can do things better than me. And, hey, you know what? I don't know everything. You guys help me learn. 

Like, that's always an invitation with my team, right? Like, I just, I don't want anybody to ever think that my way is the only way that, like, I know, like I made a system in our clickup and stuff, and I'm like, I, you know, understand it, but if everybody else doesn't understand that that's a problem, right? So trusting that they'll give me feedback and that I create spaces that are are open for them to be able to do that, and that when I'm in life moments and I'm doing and having my own struggles, to be like, Hey guys, I'm having stuff go on. I need your help, and being able to be open and ask them. And they they do every time something comes up, you know, like, my best friend passed away a year and a bit ago, and that was a big hit for me and and so they did. They stepped in, they took over. They, like, looked after me. 

They check in on me. I would do, like, whatever I had, but they made sure everybody else was taken care of, and nobody, like, had to have anything left behind, because I was being human and stuff like that. So it's been really incredible. And I love the way that we work, and I love the way that that framework fits into our business model, and it's how we work together and how we work with our clients, but that that did like having that framework helped me to see where the trust in that plays, and where it plays such a big role, and that sometimes, even if you get burned, you still have to trust well. But I think that's inevitable, right? Like there is no perfect hiring. There is no perfect everybody's going to fit, right? There is no perfect marketing plan. 

There is no perfect podcast launch. There is no perfect. There is no perfect. So that's going to apply everywhere. But I think it's lovely, the trust in other people, but also, I think the trust in yourself to look around and be like none of these models work for me. I'm going to make my own and to know, because that is a kind of trust. It's a trust in your own ability to a know what you want and how you want it, and be to lead from it, right? I think so many people are like, well, but if I'm a leader, I have to act like x, because all they've ever met are the leaders they don't want to be. You know, I worked in school buildings, and I've met some wonderful school administrators and some that, well, at any rate, they were good examples of how not to show up for people.

 And I think everybody's got those examples, but the models of how it works, especially if you're in a space that is evolving, and that is not been, you know, institutionalized for 50 years, right? Like it's not the space you and I are both in the business on the interwebs, like it's different. And leading a business, led as a woman, as someone who helps and Who Gives and who wants to serve, is different, because you're never going to the thing I always say to people is, I never, ever am going to do something get growth by creating someone else feeling like they're less right and you didn't want to leave. 

Oh, God no, that just gave me like a right. Like, that's it's just not, and it's so much of what leadership is taught as or marketing is taught as it's by making other people feel less. And I trust that, like I just can't function like that, and that's okay, right? Like I can build people up and they'll still pay me.

It's amazing that whole crap rolls downhill. Like I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. We just we rally. Well, let's not focus on the crap. Let's focus on the solution. And what can we do to learn from this? And what do we need to change to make things right now? Right? Like, well, I mean, you can focus on what went wrong, where you can focus on what we can learn from it. Move forward.

And, like, short of us being medical emergency room professionals, like, there's no wrong. Like, nothing is that wrong truly? Like, okay, hold on. Like, we all it's the maintenance of perspective too. Because, like, we didn't, it's just not that bad. That is the level of panic that comes out of people. Sometimes. I'm like, hey, you know it's okay, right? You've been trying this thing for 10 days. We can count that on fingers. Nothing's exploded yet. And people are like, oh, oh, interesting. Okay, right? Like, you're like, let's all bring it down a couple of layers. What do you think is the next part of trust that you're working on? What are you learning? What are you working on now?

For me, I think one of the next layers of trust is trusting in white space and the need for it, because I'm, like a very much a doer and action person, like, I need to be moving. I need i i struggled for a really long time and still do with like, the stopping and being and just like, but then when I do, I'm starting to really notice, like, the the magic that comes from it, like, okay, you know what? But I can start to dream. I can start to see a bigger vision. I can start to like, but when I don't have those things, we just keep getting stuck in the same hamster wheel, going, going, going, right? So for me, it's like the remembering and the doing and the bringing in and scheduling that time and then not giving it up because, you know, serving and whatever, I'm like, oh, somebody else needs me. We'll just put you in that spot I had so working on and trusting that that's one of the, one of the really important things for me, and I really need to honor that and put more of that negative white space type thing into my life, both personally and professionally.

Well, in blank space is a growth strategy. It is. I always say to people like, take the blank space. You think you need an ad 10% and that's closer to what you actually need. But same, and I'm terrible at it. Also where I'm like, I don't know, because I don't know how to stop. Actually, I've been working on that for a couple of years now. Is, like, at some point I stopped teaching college kids, and like, a week later, somebody was like, we need to volunteer for and I started to raise my hand, and my husband, literally, like, put it in his pocket. He like, took my little hand and shoved it in his pocket, and he was like, You're gonna put your hand down. And I was like, I could I have time? And he was like, That is not the point of that time. It's like, it's like, literally not the point. And I was like, well, but like, I've had to figure out, like, how to not have something to do every minute. And I don't, I'm bad at that. Like, I'm like, well, but what do you want me to do next? Right?

 Like, currently in a house where there's unpacking to do, there's never not something to do. It's kind of lovely, but it's also terrible, because even yesterday, I was feeling compelled to be doing things when I wasn't doing anything. So I think, but that space for thinking is right is unmatched as a like, that's why we get our good ideas in the shower, because you stopped thinking or, like, in or on a drive, right? Yeah, the amount of like, weird ass text to audio, audio to text notes in my phone that are so completely insane to anyone would open them up and be like, what does this even mean? It's like, barbecue paint brush. And then I'm like, Oh, I know what that is.

 They're like, what? Because it was some random idea I had in the car. It's great. Kids are always like, what now? And I'm like, never mind. It's not about you, not about you. Leave me alone. So I think so talk to me about how you have been creating that white space for yourself. Because, like, practically, what does that look like? So skip that, right? It wasn't supposed to get called out on it. I didn't say I was doing it well. I said it was one of my nobody. But that's the thing. 

Nobody does it well, so every little bit helps, right? And so because, like, you said, Okay, so like driving the car, going for a walk, or things like that. So sometimes what it looks like for me is like, I find if I do like a pomodero method kind of thing of working that by the end of the day I still have way more energy than I did if I just slogged at it right? Remembering that also helps, because I don't always fall into it every day. But what I sometimes try to do is, on that five or 10 minute break is I'll put in something monotonous around the house, like emptying the dishwasher or whatever, so that it may not look like just white space. Because if I'm just sitting on a couch being like, you have white space. 

Now, what's I need? I need to, like, have that monotonous thing, I think so far, is what I've come up with. And sometimes I'll have, like, Okay, what I've been trying to do, too, is, like, if I'm talking with a coach, or I have, like, one of your newsletters come up and they're like, oh, that question, I really need to ponder whatever. I've been trying to put, like, a calendar chunk with just that question in it, so that I'm like, okay, that's what I should be, like, thinking about by then. And then it kind of plans to see to percolate. Like, when I'm doing my weekly plan, I'm like, Oh yeah, I'm going to do that question or that thing. This is very new. So don't, don't take bad like it's just an idea and a thought. But like I said, those those five or 10 minute breaks where I'm emptying the dishwasher or folding laundry or whatever, I still feel like I'm getting something done. It may not look like a break to everybody else, but it feels like a double down win for me, because I'm not looking at a screen, but I'm getting something else off my plate. 

So at the end of the day, I can just be like, let's go play and have fun without having to do the adulting things. But those kinds of things help and then, and then, just, like, kind of reminding and like, when I do planning with other people, I'm in a planner group that's called the harmony planner. And on Fridays, we get together and we do weekly hot. Where we kind of connect and check in with each other, then we plan order next week, which I love, because then it's done before the weekend, and I can, like, forget about it. I get to do it with other people, but often little nuggets like that get shared in there. Or, like, we got talking about, like, you know, like, Are you, are you putting enough self care time, and are you doing? And this is something I'm focusing on. So those kinds of groups and spaces to also help me, remind me to keep those things front of mind.

Yeah, no. And I think it's funny, you're like, well, but it's not a break. Well, a, you're judging it very harshly. And B, it's a brain break. And that's different, right? And sometimes what you need is to let your brain stop thinking. It just just stop thinking. Just stop thinking like that. I don't know that I'm always not in motion, but I really try to, like, just let my brain turn off sometimes. And that, that is why I read fiction, because it turns my brains off. 

My husband is always like, but you're reading like, yeah, or I play like, word games, he's like, so you're relaxing his word games like, Well, yeah, because I'm not thinking about things I'm supposed to be thinking. To be thinking about. The other thing I think that really helps me is, I don't know I've, I maybe have said this on the podcast before, I don't know if I have, is I always schedule, literally, what they're called in my calendar is no people days. And I try to, like, October 1. I'll schedule the December ones, November 1. I'll schedule the January ones. I try to be like, 60 days ahead, and I am probably put in two or three a month, just days where I am not going to talk to anybody besides me. Like, because for me, that blank space sometimes is just not having extra input. And I don't have a lot of days like that. So like, when my calendar is really busy and, you know, like my children both play travel sports and like starting at four o'clock, my day begins anew.

It's,it's important, I think, to let my day, like, sometimes, just not have the same  level of input that gives my brain a break, and that actually really helps me, I think, and I think it's important, like, so like, when I'm doing the like, little like, folding laundry, so whatever, it still feels like a dopamine hit, because I feel like I'm winning. I'm getting something off my plate at the same time, right? But then I realized what I almost feel like, the white space thing is almost like, when you're starting meditation where, like, you know, like, what they're like, Okay, if you start meditation and your mind wanders, you have to bring it back. And, like, when I first, first started doing white space, I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna go for a walk and I'm gonna listen to a podcast at times two, and then I'm gonna, that was my first definition, yeah, white space, I'm going to cram a bunch of stuff. 

And I got to a point where, like, because we have YouTube, premium and stuff, so I was listening to things at like times three. I was listening to audio books at like times two, and so whatever. And I got to a point where I was sitting in real life with people being like, why are they talking so slow? Why is everything? And I'm like, and I that was my checkpoint where I was like, Whoa, something's wrong when I can't be in front of people at like, times one, like, all the messages from my team were like, times two, like, everything. And I was like, Okay, that was my like, this isn't what white spaces. 

This isn't down. Looks like, like, this was just me shifting gears and then doubling down, which I'm like, is kind of that's like, that we'd all do that I do. There are versions of that where I have to be like, Wait, is this less or more?

Well, I was like, it was less working in my business. And to me, I was like, working on my business, and I was absorbing all this knowledge and whatever. So in a way, like, I justified that that was white space. And then I realized that when I actually had a little bit of white space, like, Oh, that feels very different. Yes, well, in I it's funny. I am, I actually it's I can't. When I walk the dog I listen to, like, nonsense podcasts, nothing is very little is work related at this point, because I just can't. I think about it all day. I'm in it all day. I'm thinking about it when I at other times and like, when I go to walk or do something else, like, it's about, I don't know, it's an audio book, a trashy romance audio book, a podcast. It's about, not like nothing. I think I told a friend the other day, they're like ear candy, because basically it goes in one side and out the other, I have to retain zero. That is my podcast goal, zero over percent retention, which is kind of amazing. 

And if I walk away and I'm like, Oh, that was interesting. Like, I've retained 1% and I've exceeded my goal, but like, I want to retain zero at that point, and that, for me, is perfect. I love that white space where I well, it was funny. I wrote a note the other day that somebody was talking I was in a networking call, and she was talking about hobbies, and she defined hobbies as something that gives to you, gives you energy, but takes nothing. Thing. And I was like, Oh, that's interesting. It doesn't require anything from you, but it gives. And so I was like, what are the things I have that give and don't take, right? But if you're listening to a podcast on three times speed, it takes, right? Like, that's taking. 

So it was interesting to think about the give and no take. I was like, oh, it's supposed to be even, but in this case, it's not. It was like, it was so interesting. Okay, that is right. Like, I was like, Huh? I don't know if I have any what's like that in my life I have now I'm still thinking about it, because I don't have the answer. If there are people, I think there are plenty of people, working on trust, go figure shockingly, what is something that you want them to be thinking about? Like, what is the thing that you want them to walk away and you'd be like, here's the thing about trust that I think you should walk away with. What is that?

I think that trust is built in the small moments. It's not that big leap of faith. It's not those big, tiny, like, big jumps that we feel like we have to do, but like I was saying earlier, like it's like those little steps, right, the the trying things on and seeing what it happens and what it creates and what you've learned from it. And that when you get that kind of trust in yourself, that you start to get a different sense of freedom right, like it's you. You get that that freedom to play, that freedom to be curious, that freedom to just see what happens next and and know that it'll all fall together for you in one way or another well, and that sometimes it's not going to look like you thought it was because your imagination isn't big enough to imagine it, right? Like rarely does. It rarely does well, because we always imagine what it will look like from what we know right now, I think, and we don't know enough, right? 

My mom always used to say, if it hasn't worked, if it hasn't worked out, you're not at the end yet. And as a kid, I would be like her, but like, it always works out in the end, and if it hasn't worked out, you're not at the end yet, like, it just, that's it. And so I it's in the small moments. Trust is in the small moments. Like, that's we're gonna that's our sticker. We're gonna make a sticker, and it's gonna have her little faces on it, and it's gonna be like, trust is in the small moments. We'll stick it on people's foreheads, because I think that's where they need it. Um, tell people how to find you.

Yeah, you can find us on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, at the pro.com, B, E, B, E, R, O, and if you want our our websites the same, it's beevee pro.com or you can always shoot me an email, and I'm happy to connect with anybody answer questions, or just even if I'm not the person for you, I would love to help guide you to other people in my network, I have an incredible, amazing community of people that all do different things

Well, and when she says she's happy to connect friends, if you're listening and you think, like, I think I'd love to chat with her. Make a connection. Like, don't, don't be afraid to be like, Hi, person. I would like to meet you. It's funny, I have a client who actually has, every guest I've had she's reached out to and said, Hi, I know. I think you know her already, so she might not reach out to you, but she if they have been someone she doesn't know, she'd be like, Hey, I heard you on Sara's podcast, and I'd just love to know you. 

They have been so delighted by that. Listen. People are happy to connect. So if you want to know more of Bree because you should, because she's fabulous, like, all you have to do is send her a note and say, Hey, I heard you on this podcast. I'd love to connect and, like, That's literally how it works.

Like, right about to conference there. Like to make it harder than that, but it's literally it that's like, all that is required, and then you, like, have a human conversation. It's gonna be great friend. Thank you for coming and talking to me. I am delighted always to see your face.

Thank you. I'm so glad to be here, and I hope that other people are too.
Yeah, I'm sure they are, um, friends. Don't forget, if you didn't sign up for the workshop yet, go do that. 

The link will be in the transcript or show notes or page or whatever. Come find it already on my calendar. Hi. Oh, my God, I can't wait. 

I am Sara Torpey. The place you find me are all the places My website is Torpey coaching.com. I run a Facebook group called uncomplicating business for teachers, helpers and givers. Just like this podcast, you should come play with us. We do all kinds of fun things. Group coaching is getting started in October, so if that is something you are interested in that application will go up later this week, and it's going to be great. So you should come because we're going to simplify all the things. At any rate, y'all, I'll see you in two weeks, and until then, don't do anything too crazy.