High Ticket Sales for Helpers and Healers with Kim Kiel

In this episode, I’m talking with sales and messaging expert Kim Kiel about something so many helpers and healers struggle with: charging 'high ticket' prices for the work you love to do. We're talking through what it really means to treat sales as an act of service, why raising your prices isn't you being greedy, and the way niching down helps simplify sales and selling. If you’re worried you’re charging too much, offering way too much for free, or scaring people off with your prices, this conversation is for YOU.

A few of the key takeaways:

--> Sales as an exchange of value and a way to help people get what they actually need, it gets a lot easier to show up, build relationships, and invite people into paid work.

--> Raising your prices to reflect your expertise and the transformation you provide doesn’t just support you -- it ALSO attracts more committed clients and gives you more room to offer scholarships, discounts, or free resources in a sustainable way.

--> Getting clear on who you’re for and speaking to the folks who are already close to a yes makes your messaging sharper, your offers clearer, and your sales conversations a lot less stressful. Ready for these and more?

Listen ON!

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Here is the link to the event Kim and I are doing together on 5/20: https://torpeycoaching.kit.com/higherprices

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Transcript

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Welcome to uncomplicated business. I am delighted. I'm always delighted to bring on people I love. So I say that every time, but I literally mean it every time. This is a conversation that we are going to have about sales. Because you know that this year we're talking about grounding, connecting, planning and selling, month by month by month. We are going to talk today to my friend Kim, who is Kim Kiel, is all things messaging and sales and brand and voice and strategy, and she's so freaking smart, and I know she's here, and like watching me say that, but really, though, and one of the things, one of the reasons I wanted to bring her to you, is because I think one of the things she's really smart about, in particular, is selling more things at higher price points, and sort of helping you shift from a million little things to a core, bigger thing, and so that really matters, and that's a hard shift for service providers, often, who want to help everybody with everything. And so I think you know, she'll tell us more about this, but I want you to hear her, and I want this to be a part of the conversation we're having. So my friend Kim, Hi, how are you?

I'm awesome. Thank you, Sara.

I'm glad to have you. So talk to me first about like when you when we say sales. What is sales to you?

Sales to me, is an exchange of value and an exchange of service. So I really see sales as an act of service and an act of love, because you're filling a need, you're filling a purpose, you're providing a solution to a problem or a situation that someone has. So I really view sales as, yeah, sales is an act of service, yes, well, and sales is an act of service. And I think the point you're making there that I want to sort of poke at a little bit is, like, even before, in exchange, right? Like, sales is the thing that happens before the actual sale in exchange is made, yeah? So, like it's pre exchange, and that's where I think people get tripped that it's like service before a service. So can you, can you talk a little? Yeah, you're right. You're right about that. I think a lot of the reason why I like to say that sales is an act of service is because for so many people, and a lot of women especially, we think sales is sleazy. We think sales is greedy. And so that shift of positioning to think of sales as an act of service in somehow makes it easier to engage in the steps to get the sale so it releases the pressure about like, oh, I have to sell. I have to market myself. I have to build connection, build relationships. But that's all in the purpose of being in service and providing someone with a solution to a problem that they have.

Well, and the more often you build those things, the connection, the relationships, the things that you're talking about, the visibility, the more service you get
to be, yeah, and I know a lot of people, especially like those who fall into like the healer, teacher, coach, field, giver, yeah, yes, exactly. We feel like we should be providing this service for free. And a lot of us feel like, well, we can't charge that, or we can't charge that much, or like you should, if you have that gift, you should be providing it for free. And so you know, a way to release some of that pressure again is to think that okay, so I am delivering a level of my service for for free, in my marketing and my messaging and in my pre sale activities, but I'm really going to save the big transformation for those who have an ability to pay and work with me. Your podcast can be a great avenue to provide free or affordable transformation for those people who maybe can't afford to work with you or don't wish to invest but I know that there's just so many little mindset things that come up for people who are traditional healers or creatives who feel kind of weird about like, well, I can't charge for this gift of mine.

 I have to make it available to everyone. So I think that in some of that marketing, in our podcasts and our content, well, we can provide those deliverables for free and still feel okay about charging the right price to work with us directly. Well, and I think it really matters, right? Because you are, I always say to people that like, I think that we assume, if we're helping, it can't be paid, and if we're selling, we can't be helping. Like that, they're somehow, like, no overlay, mutually exclusive, right? Like, they're like, weirdly mutually exclusive, and they're not, like, you can be helping and make money, like, I come from teaching, and teachers are basically told, like, you should this should be free, because that's kind of how it works, and that doesn't make it okay. But also, everyone is happier, including you, when the exchanged that you talked about earlier, the exchange of value is balanced, and that makes like, why shouldn't everybody get to be happy? How come one side only gets to be happy, and it's not me?

We all have to make a living. We all have bills to pay. We all have kids who have astronomical sports fees or art, you know, theater camp fees, like there is no shame in being able to charge a decent amount and in exchange for something you deliver so that you can pay the bills, put food on your table. Give back to your community, make donations to the causes that you love. So like, I really think, like, I'm really a high ticket messaging strategist. I want to encourage more women to charge more fees for their valued expertise and services. 

So I'm always gonna, like, remind people that part of the reason why we charge a value for our services is so that we can, and we because we do, women naturally give back to their communities when they have more agency to do so, oh, my God, yes. Well, and I feel like everybody should, like, rewind a whole minute right there and then just listen to that again, and rewind a whole minute right there and listen to that again. 

Do you hear the directions here, folks? Because, like, seriously, though that's a huge deal, and I end up working with a lot of people that kind of calculate to the bare essentials. You're like, well, if I charge this, I'll meet all my it's the like least possible I can charge and meet all my needs. Like, guys, we're not trying to lay on the floor. No. Like, we don't need to be on the floor. 

There is a floor in every business where it's like, this is the bare minimum you need to get to. But like, why are we, why are we shooting at the bare minimum? And what Kim is talking about is how, what you are talking about is how okay it is and more than okay to like, like reach above the minimum 100% and if you're going for bargain basement pricing, the bare minimum, that may actually be shooting yourself in the foot, because there are a lot of people who are looking to work with an expert in the field, that of your like your expertise, if they see that you are charging the lowest rate on the block, they're going to think you can't deliver a solution that they need. So there is a real beauty, and they're finding the right price point, so that people see that you're at a price point that maybe isn't the lowest, but that's because you must be able to deliver a transformation. You must be one of the best coaches that I can work with. So if you're, if you're aiming for the lowest common denominator, you're actually going to be sacrificing the sales with though, the ideal clientele who want to work with you?

Yes. And so actually, one of the notes I'm going to put over here on the side is that when you and I talk live in May, what we should make sure we talk about is setting the right price point. Yeah, because that's on May 20. We're going to talk live together on May 20, and y'all can all come but one of the things we can talk about in that is like, Okay, that's cool, setting the right price point. But how do you do that? Because this is sort of the what and the why, and that live one is about the actual house. So in thinking about that, because I actually had a client the other day say to me, I got on with her, and she was like, Yeah, I think I under priced something, and they've gone away. She was like, I think it scared them in the wrong way. Yeah, exactly. Really interesting. And she was so taken aback by that that she was like, oh, in, in, like, everybody does it at some point, right? You did it. I've done it. And it happens in real time where you're like, ooh, damn it. Like, or you, or you say to your price to somebody, and somebody goes, Oh, I thought it would be more. And you're like, Oh, God, that's the worst. So, you know, talk to me, and. 

Out in your own business, in sales, you're you're talking about the shift from sort of that bargain basement, which we've all visited, to this higher ticket, higher value, higher expertise kind of offer. Can you talk to me about making that for yourself and also the things? Well, I want to talk about two pieces, the journey for yourself and the things that have gotten in the way. Sure, yeah. All of them, yeah.

So I actually started out, excuse me, in the nonprofit sector. I worked in charities for like, a decade, more than a decade, and so there were telling there's no money, yeah?

Mindset of deliver for as low a service or as little cost as possible, yeah. So I come from that mindset. But I was also working in major gift fundraising and grant writing, where you are actually asking for very big gifts. So you kind of have to get over that. Also, when you work in nonprofit, you realize you need people to do the job. You need good people to do the job, and we can't keep paying them, you know, minimum wage to do that so. But transitioning from the nonprofit sector to online business and working with entrepreneurs and working, quote, unquote for profit, I definitely had to deal with like, the mindset gobbledy gook that comes up because I thought, Oh, I've never worked in digital marketing before. 

Oh, I've never called myself a copywriter before. How can I charge these prices that I saw other copywriters charging? And I had to remind myself continually that the writing that I had done over the last decade counted. So even though I wasn't quote, unquote, a copywriter or a messaging strategist for the last decade, that in effect, was what I was already doing, and I also was bringing a lot of life experience to the table. And when you are in marketing and messaging, having that understanding of humanity and how humans think and how humans actually live. 

And I'm sure the same is true for people who are coaches and healers. You that life experience is so valuable because you make fewer mistakes, you kind of land the plane a lot faster, because you have that understanding of human behavior, human psychology. And so the short story long is I had to really pump myself up and look at the examples of other folks who were charging those higher rates. And yet I still started small. I still started with charging, say, $500 for my first sales page. Once that was done, I charged 1000 once that was done, I charged 1500 once that was done, I charged 2000 and so on and so on and so on, until you kind of find that point where people are like, Whoa, that is really a lot, or there you're really getting pushback. But there's ways to again, address those objections managed.

It's a whole different way.

Yes, it is. It is. So it really takes, you have to sort of take the leap before you think you're ready, and then get the evidence and keep going to show yourself that you can, in fact, charge that amount and get the and people will be happy to pay it. Now there's also some other strategies that go along with all of that mindset work and pricing strategy, and that's where understanding how to message and write copy that actually connects, and what to say on a sales call, and how to show up as a expert and authority that also all comes into play. But that's sort of my journey into how I began charging premium rates. And I have to say that, you know, the the timeline was very short for me to, like, come into the copywriting world and then say, like, I'm actually going to just specialize in writing copy for high ticket sales.

 I did that right out of the right out of the gate. Yeah, so I knew that I was going to be able to command higher rates from people who would have a greater ROI from the copy, because they, in turn, were charging premium rates. So it was like this really sweet niche that i i created, and owning that niche really worked in my favor, yeah, well, but it's also what I think you're talking about there is picking a spot that felt really good, where there's income to be made a but also the willingness to be like, Okay, I charged this. And people were like, All right, so I'm going to charge more. I charge this. And people are like, all right. And so. I charge more. I actually connected one on one with somebody new on Friday, who is newish in the like, wellness space. And she said, in your first year in business, like, what were your prices? And I was like, honestly, I had to keep a spreadsheet, because they changed every time somebody and she was like, what does that mean? And I was like, Well, every time somebody said yes, I added $300 yeah, like, I just It went from like, $1,500 to like, it changed all the time, constantly. 

And it was like, Is it three months? Is it four months? Is it six months? Is it it went all over the place. And she was like, well, is that even okay? And I was like, Well, yeah, yeah, it's easier to go up Yes, than it is to go down, especially if you're selling like a group offer that is out there in the public so if you start charging like $5,000 for a group program, and maybe one or two people buy, or maybe nobody buys, and then you start selling that same offer for less, because you think it's the price point like that is harder optically to do, so you're better off to, like, charge a, charge a, you know, a good value, and then like, push, push it as you go up well.

And here's the thing, like, especially if you're doing one on one work where Kim's doing a page for this person and a page for this person, where I was coaching this person, this person, nobody knows that's what's happening. Yeah? Like, you don't have to be like, well, the person before you, I charged this, and then next person, like, you don't need to give them a blow by blow of how you change your prices. That's they just need to know what you're charging today. Yeah. And there is no like, people will be like, well, is that fair? Like, Well, every person needs something different. It's the same as when my kids are like, is that fair, that she got it this way and I didn't. I'm like, Well, yeah, are you the same? Yeah. They'll be like, well, and also, with each client, we work with each person, we coach, with each sales page I write, I get better and better and better. And so that should come with a commensurate increase in value. Yes, price, and at no point Have you said that anyone stood up and was like, You are a terrible person. Yeah, never. Has it ever happened.

No, it has never happened. And when people are like, really balking at the price, I do keep in my back pocket a few strategies. One of the strategies is, would a longer payment plan be helpful to you? Yeah, and so I can, you know, say, instead of three payments, we can spread it out over four or five. I also do, because I charge premium rates, I have the ability to offer scholarships for marginalized communities, people for whom have financial hardship, and I'm I'm happy and able to extend that, yep, when it's the right fit for the right person, well, and I say to people all the time, like, I have clients come to me and they're like, well, But I want these kinds of clients, and I want to always be able to have a couple of people that I'm charging half or giving away for free, and I, and I always say to them, like, 

I'm entirely down to that. I do the same, and that can't come before the charging, yeah, which is such like you have to you charge the money to enable the giving
exactly, and rather than give and then figure out how to charge the money like we do want, the charging enables the giving. It's like when you write a grant, you enable someone to give you have to do there's work that comes before that, and so it's an interesting pot kettle kind of thing, right? That actually isn't a pot in a kettle. It's like a pot in a cup, yeah, yeah. And, I mean, we're used to this in other contexts, yeah? Like when we go to the grocery store, it's like, do you want to add on the rest of the change so that we can make a donation to this charity. 

A lot of other even corporate businesses, will say, like, if you want to buy a seat for somebody else. So you can make it very explicit when you're make doing your pricing, or have it on your on your services page, like when you work with me, you allow me to donate a third of my proceeds back to the community, like you could be very explicit about it, or you can just do it on your own, and it doesn't like nobody has to know, or they can know if you want them to, yeah, and that is in that can change. Yes, God forbid. I mean, like that might be one way today. It might be private today and public tomorrow, and a year from now, you might change it again. That, I think is the other thing that happens is people say, Well, I'm charging this right now, and I did just change it. Oh, okay, yeah.

Like, there's no you're the boss of your own business. That's like, you get to decide what you call it. You get to decide if you change the name of it. You get. To decide if you want to make it a two week offer, a two day offer, you can you get to decide what you're charging today? Like, I think a lot of us feel like we have to have everything locked in cement and then move from there. But the truth is, business life is about a series of tests and experiments and learning from data, and you can't know unequivocally, and then act, you have to act, and then you'll know. So it's like, all of last year on this podcast, it was about trust. Think about trust is the thing we do before data. Trust is pre data, yeah, and like, that's the thing. Like, we people will be like, well, what's the right price? Here's the thing, the thing that always cracks me up with people, they'll be like, well, but nobody near me is charging more than that. Well, that you know of, yeah.

How do you know what people are charging?

How do you know? And I will tell you 100% guarantee. That the range is bigger than you realize. Like, if you do, you have any experiences where you've been like, where all of a sudden your thoughts about what existed in the world, of what people would pay sort of changed where you were like, oh, oh, oh, well, I think it was really when I was getting into online business, and I was kind of following like a big influencer who's very famous for her online business program, and I was really intrigued by it, yeah, and then once you kind of get into the funnels, then you get to see all the people who are delivering the affiliate marketing, and a couple of them were quote, unquote copywriters, okay? And when I did a diver, deeper dive into their websites, and I saw how much they were charging, I was like, Heck, if I made half that, I'd be killing it, yes. And so seeing those people ahead of me gave me the trust that there are people willing to pay for this, and here I was making like $25 an hour, doing that same level of writing, providing that same level of strategy, but now I could probably be making like triple or quadruple that if I just changed who I was writing for.

Well, and what's interesting about that is I think there are people that go out into the world and look at that same set of data and come back from it feeling inferior rather than empowered. Yes, which is an interesting option, right? You go out and be like, Oh my gosh, those people are charging so much more than I feel good about. I'm never going to be like them, right? Or it's, look what's possible. And I think they lead to very different places.

Clearly, absolutely do, yes.

So when people come to you and they say, I want to charge more, but what are your thoughts on, on like, what tends to be most in the way, and what your general response is,
I mean, I I had to really invest in a lot of support, mindset support. So I did work with mindset coaches. I joined communities where there were people who were maybe a little bit further ahead of me, yeah, and so they could really call out for me when I was playing too small, or when I was believing a false narrative about myself or what I could charge and so having other people to reflect back to you that you know I think that you're playing small here, or what are you talking About? You have 1215, years of working in nonprofit like you, you can actually do this. Just because you didn't call it the same thing doesn't mean you can't do the same thing. 

So I think having that person, so when I'm working with someone and I'm seeing themselves holding themselves back, I can kind of hold up that mirror and say, like, I think you're being a little bit hard on yourself. Like, look at all these amazing things you've done, and look at so and so, this is possible for so and so. There are also some other like, actual mindset programs that you can take to help rewire your mindset, or whatever you do to practice that gets you into the vibe. And so sometimes it's just practicing those like listening to that pump up song before you hop on a sales call, so that you feel like you know, like an expert, and you can command those rates. 

So there's just a few little tricks.

Well, when we talk in the lab that I run one of the core structures. Is grounding. Because for me, at least in the experience of business I have, and it sounds like you're not far from it, that is the thing that drives everything else. Like, if you start from that grounded place, which you don't, it's not like a location that we get to stay at. It wander up, like we wander away from that spot quite a bit. And we're constantly, it's like the little kid. You're constantly refocusing, like, Oh, hey, here. Look at this. Look at this. Look at this. Look at this. It's, it's a toddler at best, a rambunctious one. And that constant coming back to, like, wait a minute, I know what I'm doing, be it through your journal or through meditation or music or friends or whoever, whatever you need to come back to having something up there, like I have one that a note that sits right up there on my wall that says it doesn't have to be perfect to be useful, because I need to be reminded on a fairly regular basis that it doesn't have to be perfect to be useful. I'm just maybe that's a problem here. So it's, you know, that constant re centering before you go out into the world and are like, hey, world, I have this thing. And when you're like, do I have anything to come back and be like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, I do. I know how to do this.

One of the things I Sorry to cut you off. Keep your fine. I was one question, go ahead, yeah, one of the things I did in the early days was I learned this from Joanna weeb of Copy Hackers, who is a marketing agency, but she created something called the cheat sheet of awesomeness. Oh, and she recommended that we do that. So it was, I do. I even still have it up. I don't. But for a long time, on my bulletin board, I used to have a list of all of these wins that my clients had had, and I had to look at that every single time before I hopped on a sales call, because I wanted to not only be able to refer back to Oh, this one time I was working with a client who and then provide that result, but it also reminded me that I am actually good at what I do, like I have value. 

I can create this transformation, and I can say my prices confidently and then just sit in the silence and let that person respond. But this is an ongoing battle. Just the other day, Sara I was having an exchange with a lead a past client who was we were negotiating terms of a new way to work together at a premium level, and she wanted to hire me for a series of nurture emails. So like, a weekly email that we would write and she would send. She also wanted me to turn that into a LinkedIn post. And I generally don't provide content services. It's just not my area of expertise. But LinkedIn, of all this social media, is, like, where I feel most comfortable, yeah. So I was like, sure I could do that. And I had to talk myself through not offering that as a free upgrade. I wanted to be like, Sure, I'll just do that for you, no problem. 

But I had to literally, like, walk through. It took me about five or 10 minutes to walk myself through why I shouldn't add that in, why I should charge like, a certain amount to do the trans, like, translate the emails into LinkedIn posts. Like, spoiler alert, she didn't buy the upgrade, but I'm still delivering the emails for the same price, yeah, as opposed to, like, delivering more, yes, and get and getting paid less for it.

So it's funny, last week, I was on a call with a colleague talking about a new offer. I'm kind of pushing around very quietly and like mushing and thinking about and I was like, oh, and then I can add this on to the end. And she was like, Have you lost your mind? And I was like, Oh, it's a good idea. And she was like, it is not that is not that is too much and too nice and make it stop. And I was like, Oh. She was like, you do that all the time. Cut it out. And I was like, Dear God, okay, hold on, because I do the same thing where I was like, well, and I could just tack on these, really three more nice things that would be so fun. And I totally get that and it it is a constant battle. It is, and you get better at noticing it, right? You see it faster than you ever did before. What's funny is your awesome list, I actually early on, and still sometimes have had the same but I actually do it in real time, where I just, like, write down all the names of my people in one thing we've accomplished. Just it's like, okay, what am I working on with everybody right now? Like, what are the important kinds of things we're doing with all these names? I can name right here, and then it's like, oh, wait, we do important stuff. Yeah, okay, carry on right. And I often do that before calls with new people, even still, because it's like, oh, what? What actually is happening here?

Yeah, and it's a really, it's a great it's a useful practice for you, but it's also an impact when you can on a sales call or on an introduction call, be able to showcase those results, because in what everyone's calling this trust, trust recession time right now, being able to point to some of your results and say, I helped so and so release this I helped so and so achieve this health goal. I helped so and so get so many sales from these series of emails or this sales page. They like to hear that you've had success, and then it makes dropping that price point even easier, because they know that you are coming to the table with a level of expertise, yes, well, it is that, you know.

 It is that safety, right? That is no matter what you're charging, and honestly, that safety is at every price point. At the higher price points, we feel more like, it's got to be safe for them. But I often feel like the price point is part of the safety. At those higher price points, it is, yeah, and it's a it's such an interesting counter, it feels a little counterintuitive. And it's like, if you sit down and draw it on paper, it makes sense, right? Like, are there things like that for you? Where? Like, if I write this out, it'll make sense. But in my brain, it's like, that'd be real, and a lot of the money, things fit like that.

There's a funny meme that you you've probably seen. It's like charging a 5k project to a client. Client says, Great, I'll send me the invoice, and then it's sending a $500 service to a $500 client. And it's like, can you tell me what the terms are, how much is goes into this? What are my deliverables Exactly? And it's, it's a meme for a reason, like there is a reason why premium clients and premium pricing gives you a different level of clientele, gives you a different level of command and confidence on both sides of the coin. So, yeah, well,
and it's an interesting I work with a lot of people that work with kids and families and and the distance from the people who make you crazy to the people who you'll be thrilled to have is not as far as you think, especially in those models, but it is people will be like, well, I can't charge 75 versus 65 Like you can actually and it will change your life, because it'll change your people entirely. And you'll be like, Oh, what's happening. And I've seen it time and time and time again, and it so it is, you know, she Kim is not saying to everyone, like, you have to charge triple what you're charging now. That's not premium. Means something different for everyone, and is going to be kind of uncomfortable and changes all the things.

Yeah, you could look at premium in terms of the kind of service you provide, the the niche service you provide, like, if you're an expert in a certain area, that's going to bring a level of expertise and condense the timeline, possibly for your client to have a transformation, so that could be premium, and you just charge potentially more for that than The going rate, like, it doesn't have to be you're charging 1000s and 1000s of dollars. Absolutely not, and it's going to be different for everybody and so like, but it is, you know, what are you afraid that people The thing I've always had to write about in my journal, which I find interesting, especially with rate changes and newer offers, is like, what am I worried people are going to say and do and feel and how are none of those things actually going to happen? Yes, right where you're like, Oh, that's not real. Because, like, do you, do you have the same gremlins? Miss Kim, Oh, of course. But usually what it comes down to is the things that maybe my mom was saying to me when I was a kid.

Oh, interesting. Okay, like, one of the things, like, she was a teacher and she saw what would happen to like, students who were exceptional, or students who were really at the bottom of the barrel. So she would say, like. I just want you to be average. Just dull average is all I ever want you to be. And she was meaning it from a good place, but anytime I was above dull average, I was like, Oh, I don't deserve this. I shouldn't be like this. And I think that that kind of comes into pricing, like, don't be bigger than your britches, you know, like, you got to work hard for your like, there's all these like, little things that we say that we're programming that were very innocent when we were younger. And so it's like, catching yourself, it's okay to be better than dull average.

Like, yeah, yeah. And, and you already are, yeah, right. Like, yes, yeah. It's like, I am i Everybody has something at which they are exceptional, and that is the reason you're in business. And to be like, Oh, I am exceptional at this, to even say those words out loud, people are like, yeah, right. Like, I often work with clients, and one of the things we come to is that in the something I write about all the time in my journal is I am a success right now, and getting people to be able to say out loud like I am a success right now and not have them carry the sentence except when more but I haven't gotten yet, or it's like, No, no, I can be successful today and want more. Yes, that doesn't negate success today. And that, to me, is fascinating, like the amount at which we fight that right, and how that impacts how we think about sales in future growth. Mm, so go ahead.

I was just kind of thinking about how one of the things that I like to do regularly is look at the data on women in business. And I am not. I'm not going to get the percentages right right now, but it's like 50% of businesses close after the first year. Only 12% of women owned businesses make it to six figures to $100,000 only 2% 1.9% make it to a million dollars in revenue. Yeah. And when you put it in that perspective, like if you even just the act of starting your business, like leaving your corporate life, transitioning from your nine to five and starting a business, or starting a side hustle, that in itself, is a success lasting beyond one year, is a success. Lasting to five years is a tremendous success, hitting six figures or beyond or like, even if that's not your goal, like that is successful in and of itself. So I just agreeing with you that I am a success today.

Yeah, yes. And actually, those are the numbers that started me thinking about that, because that particular one about six figures that when in that data set, what I find really interesting is it they're not talking about in a year, they're talking about total ever, like, there's a number that it's like, only 12 or whatever, percent of businesses ever make $100,000 total. That's crazy, yeah.

And it's like, okay, we're not talking about a calendar year. We're talking about all together, like, cumulative. And then it's like, oh, okay, wait, okay, hold on. Maybe it's not all so bad. Maybe there are some things working here. Because it's like, oh, have you made it over time? Yeah, for sure. And so that, to me, is fascinating. Tell me if you could have everyone make one shift right now, what would it be?

Everyone could make one shift, I think it would be to I'm really big into niche. Picking a niche, and a niche can be the type of service you offer, or it could be the type of person you work with, or both. But I really feel that when you have picked your niche, you can become an expert in there. You're not You're not saying yes to all of these things that are outside of this niche. It allows you to focus your day to day on what you offer, who you want to work with, and it helps to clear out all of this extra stuff that you might be like, Oh, well, I should offer this, and oh, I should offer this, and oh, I should do that. So I feel like a niche is kind of like the foundation of everything. And from your niche, then you learn how to speak to your ideal audience. You learn to speak the words that they say, the I'm going to put in. 

A second thing that I wish everyone would do. I wish everyone. Speak to the ready to buy buyer. Oh, God bless. So I'm working with a client right now on a launch, and she's telling me about how people are so skeptical and they don't want to buy, and the economy is this and the economy is that, and I have to keep reminding her, those aren't the people we're talking to. We are not going to try to convince the people who are negative and wound up in their story that this is the offer that they should do or why they should change their minds. We're going to talk to the people who are like, I know I kind of want this, and I'm just maybe a little bit hesitant. 

So moving from that super beginner or the person who really doesn't know if they need this yet to position yourself within your niche, to the people who are kind of ready to buy, ready to buy, or red hot and ready to buy, like that is where you want to position your offer, your messaging, your sales, is focusing on the people who are already there. I have a friend that describes those people as your 210 degree people like water boils at 212 Fahrenheit, right? So you're talking to your 210s not your 80 threes, yes, right? And it's like those 210s don't need a ton of extra heat to boil. Yes, and it is the difference. And like, as a former math teacher, I think all the time about, like, my job as an in a classroom was to bring everybody to algebra. 

My job in business is not yes, yes, only the kids that are like, Please, can I have algebra? Like I get, I get to have them like the other kids are like, Go do what you want to do. Yeah. So it is, but it's, it's, I that's a really good thought. I love, I think a lot about my 210s Right? Or my two Oh nines, or my 208 the people over 200 but the people who are at 73 like, we're not let them do what they do. They got, they got things they got cooking to do, yeah? And like a lot of us feel, as we grow in our businesses, as we evolve in our businesses, as we gain more expertise, we worry about the people at the bottom of that spectrum who are like, who were the original audience that we were talking to. It's the like people who like, learn what EFT is, learn what learn what copywriting is like. We all kind of start there and then as we gain more experience and the market sophisticates we we want to position ourselves here, but we're worried about all these beginner people. 

But the the thing I want everyone to remember is that when you are painting this picture for this more sophisticated audience, what the transformation and what the outcomes for this sophisticated audience will be your beginners will still be inspired by that vision. They'll still, they'll actually be pulled more along into that new vision than if you're like, Oh, this is what you're struggling with. These are the pains and problems. This is like, this is the like, economy is blah. But like, if you're painting that picture of possibility for those people, as you call it, in the two hundreds, the people who are at 87 will naturally be finding themselves warmed into that well and that, I think that to the point about niche too, is similar, like, just because you picked a place to stand, yes, doesn't mean no one else will hear you. It's not like you're dead to everyone else, and I think that that is what scares people. They're like, well, but if I open this door and stands firmly in this room, I've closed all the other ones, no, you've picked a space to speak from.

 Like, that doesn't mean people don't come to me and be like, can you do this thing in this other area? Like, of course I can that. Like, that's the like, just because you picked a spot doesn't mean that, like, yeah, you put up a curtain around you and you're dead to everyone else, my friend, this is lovely, and I am so excited to get to talk to you again on May 20, between now and then, I will have the page to sign up for that talk either. So there's two ways to get to that.

 Either you're in the uncomplicating Business Lab already, and it is a part of what you get, or there will be a page at the start of May that you can sign up to come join Kim and I, and I will make sure both those things exist when this podcast is out, tell people how to find you and all of the places to come follow me around. And I, before you do that, I will remind people, as I remind them every single time, Kim is an actual human being. If you were to go to the LinkedIn and send her a connection request and be like, Hey, I'd love to talk to you one on one, she would not be like, Oh my God. Who do you think you are? She would be like, Oh, hi, human. I too, am a human. So you could actually do that and no action could. Yeah, I'm just saying, Tell them how to Yeah.

So I also have a podcast. It's called the ill communication podcast. You'll find it on all the channels so you can really good. It's in my it's in my it's been the stuff I Weekly. I'm around. Yeah, thank you.

So you can. Absolutely subscribe and get, like, little tips and tricks to help elevate your messaging, copy and sales in your business. So that's one of the ways I also have you can find me on LinkedIn. You can find me at Kim keel.com and I, you know, I actually have a scorecard. I'm not sure. Did we talk about like a opt in or anything to share. We will do that in the lab. 

The opt in will go, yeah, great, yeah. Okay, so come to the come to the session on the 20th, and there's lots of other great resources that we can share with you.
It's tons. And we're definitely going to talk about how to set the right price point and strategies for when people balk. And I have a list I'm like, over here on this piece of paper that I shouldn't be taking these notes on taking extra notes, I should know better by now, the post it notes are here somewhere. Kim, it's so lovely to see you and talk with you. Thank you so much for this today.

No, it's my pleasure. Thank you for having me, Sara, thank you.