Jesus Fix It with Jess & Steph!
Life is beautiful, crazy, messy and ever-changing. Thank the Lord, Jesus can handle it all! Jesus Fix It with Jess & Steph is about finding your way through the clutter; and perhaps having some laughs along the way. The Christian walk doesn’t always come wrapped in nice pretty packaging, so count on us to keep it real.
You can listen to Jesus Fix It on the Spirit FM website, the Spirit FM APP, and wherever you enjoy your podcasts.
The Jesus Fix It podcast with Jess & Steph, brought to you by Your Encouraging Spirit FM.
Jesus Fix It with Jess & Steph!
Grace Without Compromise
Wrestling with how to love someone living contrary to biblical teaching while maintaining your faith convictions may be one of the most challenging situations Christians face today.
Pastor Jonge Tate joins us to tackle this difficult conversation with wisdom, grace, and biblical clarity. What begins as a discussion about a real situation in their church community quickly reveals that multiple families are navigating these exact waters with their loved ones. This isn't happening "out there" - it's happening within our churches and families.
Through thoughtful dialogue, we explore what it means to hold firmly to biblical truth while extending genuine, Christ-like love. Pastor Jonge draws our attention to Jesus himself, who regularly dined with society's outcasts while never compromising truth. The question becomes not whether to engage, but how to engage as faithful representatives of Christ.
We tackle practical questions too: How do we maintain relationship without compromising conviction? And perhaps most importantly, we examine our own misconceptions about our role in others' salvation journeys. As Jess vulnerably shares her attempts to "make" a friend accept Jesus by hiding Bibles in his car, Pastor Jonge gently redirects: "Can you even make him change?"
Don't miss part two dropping next Monday where we continue this important conversation about living as salt and light in a complex world.
Hey, welcome back, or welcome to the Jesus Fix it podcast, the show where we talk about life, the ups, the downs, a little pop culture and everything in between.
Steph:I'm Jess and I'm Steph, every other week we dive into the things we're asking Jesus to fix. And let's be real, there's a lot. You can always count on us to keep it real.
Jess:Share some laughs with us and maybe a few tears, as we tackle the big and small stuff with faith and honesty. So grab your coffee and let's get into it. All right, steph? Yes, we have company today, we do. Okay, now we're hospitable, right? Yes, I think so, you think so, I hope so, okay, I think we are but we're going to let our guest introduce himself. I mean, he's used to talking to people, he can do it.
Pastor Jonge:He's pretty nice so far. Pretty nice so far, yeah, so far.
Jess:Let's see how this goes. Welcome, by the way.
Pastor Jonge:Thanks for having me Appreciate the opportunity to be here with you two ladies, and I'm excited to see what God does with us this morning. My name is John G Tate. I live in Bedford, virginia. I currently serve as one of the pastors at Bedrock Community Church, a church that was founded 16 years ago by myself and several men, excited to see what God wants to do with us today.
Jess:Okay, but we have to stop him just for a second, because I heard John G, but that's not right. I was corrected and so everybody else has to be corrected too. In case you didn't hear correctly, it's not John G, period.
Steph:Or John space G no.
Pastor Jonge:No, it is not. It is J-O-N-G-E, it's all one word. My mom made it up. Yes, I was born in Germany. My father was 22 years Air Force before he became a pastor, surrendered to that call. I'm seventh generation pastor in my family, but there in the military base in Bitburg, germany, my mom knew somebody, or in some circles with somebody. Their son was named John and maybe a middle, initial or last name was G or something. And so you know how you. You know you're in trouble when your mama calls you by the first, middle and last name or something like that. So it got all slammed together. My mom liked the ring of John G and so she you know J-O-N-G-E, put it to paper and that's my name so it's not john space g.
Pastor Jonge:Uh, I have a friend who constantly refers to me as john g and I'm like, okay, what's up, larry, how you doing this morning. And he goes, oh, I see what you did there. I'm like, yeah, just just bungee, just slam it all together.
Jess:One word john g and you are saying it with your whole chest. I like it, hey, it's our identity.
Pastor Jonge:You know what I'm saying it with your whole chest, I like it. Hey, it's our identity. You know what I'm saying? It's our name, I like it.
Jess:I like it and I like the see, I like unique. It's very I like it.
Pastor Jonge:Oh, I get, I get Jorge, I get Yongie G, I get, I got all kinds of stuff. We traveled to Nicaragua and do missions down there and the woman down there used to call me.
Jess:Wongay Tate. I'm like what. I'm not even Right.
Pastor Jonge:I don't even know what I'm like. There's no way that you get you know. In Spanish it says Wongay Tate.
Jess:I have no idea, okay All right. Well, thank you for that. I just had to put that out there because it's so different. I like it, I like different. Yeah, my son, his name is Cameron and he's like can you just give me something other than Cameron? And I said nope, this is what I like and this is what you got. What would you call yourself? And he said Cam Right is what I like and this is what you got. What would you call?
Pastor Jonge:yourself. And he said Cam Right, that's what everybody calls me Well you know you couldn't come up with anything other than Cam.
Jess:So what do you? Yeah, so I like it. Your mom, she did good.
Pastor Jonge:That's right, she did good. Yep, she did good, all right, thank you.
Jess:So we're just going to. But you know straight up, if you have young ones listening right now, the conversation may get a little heavy. Yes, it may not be suitable for young ears today. Just want to let you know straight up.
Steph:We're going to let you decide what young is, but I think if maybe we were putting a rating on this, the conversation today is heavy, but it is one that we know so many people are wrestling with.
Jess:Yeah, I would say, if you have elementary age kids, would you say, john Jay, if you have elementary kids, maybe they're not ready for this conversation.
Pastor Jonge:Yeah, I would agree with that. I would say that if you have elementary age kids in the public school, they're hearing these words.
Jess:They're already hearing these words.
Pastor Jonge:And as a father of four, I always my wife and I always took the stand that we wanted our kids to hear words from us first, because the world and punk Satan have done a really good job of skewing the words and twisting them to mean different things, and so we always took the approach of hey, let's be the first ones who helped them understand what certain words mean before they hear it in a locker room or in the hallways or when a teacher steps out of the classroom, or something like that. So, so yeah.
Jess:All right, so there you go. If you want to listen to this conversation first and then let your kids listen, then this is your not warning, but your parental advisory. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, so you guys were. Well, steph, you were telling me about a conversation of conversation.
Pastor Jonge:Yeah, so we're a church of small groups and we're currently in a season where we're starting to gather some people in the church who aren't necessarily connected to a group yet but want to be. So we started something called the Hub that met on Monday nights just trying to connect people, and so Steph and her husband joined us and we were talking about being salt and light. It was the topic of the message that we had just preached in our Go series from Matthew and how we, as followers of Jesus, are to be salt and light, really how the scriptures tells us that we already are Jesus says you are light of the world.
Pastor Jonge:You don't have to muster it up and go out in the morning and be that. You already are as my followers. So just go live it and walk in it. So we were walking through that. It was probably nine or so people in our small group that night and so, prodded, I would say, by the Holy Spirit, off of a conversation that I had recently had with somebody in the church who was asking some hard questions about a family member who was choosing to live an alternative lifestyle At this point, hadn't yet gone to surgical measures but was really struggling with identity, who they were and there's lots of factors that play into that of could be abuse as a child. I mean all of that stuff I'm not privy to necessarily when this question got poised to me and so I dropped it in life group that night to say hey what would you guys do?
Pastor Jonge:What would you say to a follower of Jesus who has a family member who's choosing to live opposed to what the scriptures teach? And she was like what do I do? How do I love my family member? Well, in the name of Jesus Christ, without condoning their apparent sin. So that's what we dropped in the group that night.
Steph:Yeah, and what was very interesting, as we were having this conversation, like nine of us that were there. Two of the families there in addition to this one you're talking about, said yep, I've got family members that are also dealing with this same identity situation.
Pastor Jonge:It was. It was really interesting, and these aren't like distant relatives. These were close people in their family who were either actively involved in a homosexual relationship or struggling, perhaps, with same-sex attraction, and it was just really interesting because it brought the reality of this context to our life group to go oh wow, this isn't something that's happening over there or out there or in some other place.
Pastor Jonge:No, no, no, no. This is happening right here within us and in our lives, and we have to face it. We have to look at it and take a look at how we go and be the light that Jesus says we are.
Jess:Yeah, I guess for me it's never as a believer, I've never once looked at a homosexual person or a transgender person and thought I'm going to be rude to them or dislike them. I don't agree with their lifestyle, but I've never once thought I'm going to be rude or dislike them in any type of way. But I've seen other Christians automatically not every Christian, please hear me when I say this, but I've automatically. I've seen other Christians automatically say you don't belong here, you don't belong in the church, I'm going to automatically turn you away. God doesn't love you. I've seen that. What do you think about that?
Pastor Jonge:Yeah, one. I think we have to remember that we're all fallen, and I guess I would start by saying this for those listening I'm coming from a heart that number one holds a high view of God, god's authority, god's sovereignty over all of his creation. And so with that, I also have a deep conviction and a very high view of God's Word as truth, that it's all breathed out by the Almighty and it's useful for correction, for training, for teaching, for the word rebuke, all of those things God's word is useful for. And then there's also a responsibility for us as followers of Christ, his followers, to take the truth of the good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ to those who are in darkness, to those who are in need of, confused by struggling with sin, with identity who they are in Christ and trying to find themselves. All we, like sheep, have gone astray.
Pastor Jonge:We are all very capable of messing up.
Pastor Jonge:Nobody had to teach me how to lie Nobody had to teach me how to steal To the mom who's out there going my baby's so cute and so special.
Pastor Jonge:I'm like wait till fourth grade.
Pastor Jonge:Wait till they get to it Just wait, just wait.
Pastor Jonge:They're going to come home and they're going to say words and you're going to be like who told you that we're just all capable of sin? We've all fallen, so we're all in need of God's love, we're all in need of a Savior, which is the message of John 3.16,. But it's also the message of John 3.17, that God loved us, but yet he loved us and he sent Christ to die on the cross for us so that we could be justified, we could be set free from our lives, the flesh that's so wicked, our lives, the flesh that's so wicked. And so I think we step into life too. We step into these circles in which we're living, armed with truth but yet full of grace, to take God's Word where it is so desperately needed in pockets of darkness. And I think we all have a with that that we're born in sin. We all have a certain propensity towards certain sins.
Pastor Jonge:And everybody's different, everybody's thumbprint. Not a single thumbprint is the same which is insane to think about, but yet it's so very true. So I think we're armed with truth and grace from God's word as we step into that.
Jess:Do you know what I find myself and I know you'll find also. You'll find that we're all over the place. But do you know what I find myself explaining to a lot of my other believer friends and people in my church is when they see me with one of my friends who is homosexual, or if I'm being nice to there's a person that goes to our church who is openly transgender and for the most part people are kind, but people who are friends with that person we find ourselves explaining to other believers and other members in our church that we're not endorsing that behavior just because we are kind to them. We're not condoning that behavior just because we're kind, just because we show them compassion. But we are still called to love people even though we don't condone their sin. How do we continually plead that, tell people that, or do we just continue just to show the love of Jesus and just say, look, either you get it or you don't? Do you know what I mean?
Pastor Jonge:I do know what you mean and I think, Jess, at the end of the day, who are we? We're followers of Jesus. So what I love about God's word is we have this opportunity to go. Okay. Was Jesus in these scenes? Was Jesus in scenes around people who were sinners, and what does his word teach us from that?
Pastor Jonge:There are several places in the gospel Matthew, Mark, Luke and John where we see these moments with Jesus. I think about Jesus going to Matthew's house in Matthew, chapter 9, where it says that he's sitting with tax collectors and sinners. And you have the outside Pharisees who are looking on this scene going how dare you? What are you doing? Who are you? You've got Jesus at Levi's house. This is Mark, chapter 2, Luke, chapter 5.
Pastor Jonge:Once again, sitting with tax collectors. These are hated people. Tax collectors were some ruthless people and vile that people did not want to hang out with, and the scriptures teach us that Jesus was a friend of sinners. And so you go, okay. How can we then step into the sinner's world, where they are, meet them where they are with the truth? That means we're going to have to go hang out with them. That means we're going to have to go be in their sphere, befriend them.
Pastor Jonge:Jesus was eating dinner with them, and so I think that when I walk away from that, I go okay, if Jesus were here today, he would know transgenders, he would know people who are struggling with same-sex attraction, he would know people by name who are perhaps actively in homosexual relationships. He would be taking the light, the truth of the good news of who he is to those people. And so we can't just go okay. Well, I'm not comfortable with that sin, as I am comfortable with my own sin, and so therefore, I'm not going to associate or run from or I'm going to picket against. No, I don't think we can do that.
Pastor Jonge:I think we have to take the light and his love to them and stand on what it says. And I think, at the end of the day, the gospel is extremely offensive. Let's be honest.
Pastor Jonge:It's very offensive.
Jess:But, it's supposed to be but the good news is.
Steph:The good news is is we don't have to be so. Thinking about that. Part of that conversation that happened in the small group was if you've got a relative that is transgender to be and says, okay, I no longer want to be known as sally, I now want to be called sam. The offensive conversation then how, as a christian, are we approaching this and are we saying, okay, well, well, I want to love you in the steps that you're walking in right now, but I don't agree by calling you Sam when you were born Sally.
Pastor Jonge:Yeah, yeah, and that was a situation that we were talking about, because that was a real life question that came up, and so this person had had conversations that erupted explosively. It was met with, you know you, christian bigot, pointing fingers.
Pastor Jonge:Who are you? You don't know me, you don't know what I've been through. You know there's always a story behind the story and you don't know that story. That's behind the story until you go sit down, have conversations that are loving and I want to hear you. And so immediately I'm sitting there with this person and I immediately thought of a relative who had a when their son was young I'm saying, like you know, it's old enough to talk, maybe four years old, something like that and became infatuated with Lone Ranger you know the old timey, you know Lone Ranger and Tonto and this little guy.
Pastor Jonge:He had the boots, he had the little holster with the pistol on the side, his cowboy hat, his vest, I mean he was Lone Ranger. And he's like, no, you call me Lone Ranger and so we show up for a family event or whatnot and I'm like, hey, what's up? Said his name and he goes no, I'm Lone Ranger, you call me Lone Ranger.
Jess:I can hear the song in my head right now, absolutely.
Pastor Jonge:That's right, and I'm like, okay, am I Tonto? And he laughs.
Pastor Jonge:And I looked at my relative and he goes oh no, he's serious, he's serious, he's serious. And it's like oh, it's a season, it's a phase, we're going to call him Lone Ranger. So why did I think of that? Why, in the midst of this conversation, did I immediately think of that situation? And she was asking me is it okay for me to call them by the name they choose? And I said well, you've already clearly stated to them where you stand on the scriptures. Well, you've already clearly stated to them where you stand on the scriptures, on God's word, that he breathed out the truth of it. You've already expressed that.
Pastor Jonge:And yet you want to have your relationship, you want to be light to this person. That's going to be hard to do. When you go, okay, forget you, I can't be around you, I'm not going to. You know, blah, blah, blah. And I said so I can't be around you, I'm not going to, I'm not going to. You know blah, blah, blah. And and I said so, is there harm in you referring to them as the name that they're choosing? Just like when, when somebody comes in to meet with me and I know that they're, they're in an, in an affair, or somebody has. I've gone to meet with somebody at jail who got busted and they're there in an orange jumpsuit and we're talking through telephones on the other side of the glass and they're there because they stole or they robbed or they killed. I don't refer to them as the adulterer, the thief or the murderer. I say, hey, what's your name?
Pastor Jonge:And whatever name they give me is what I call them. I'm not condoning the fact that they're an adulterer or the fact that they're a murderer or a thief in that moment by calling them their name. But I am a representative of truth in that moment and everything that oozes from me is the love of Christ, but also his truth.
Jess:I'm so glad you brought that up, representative of Christ, because you say that and it reminds me of my friend that is homosexual and I remember when I found out he was, and I just kept pushing and pushing and I was that one that, ok, I can accept, this is who you are for now. Yeah, Because, oh no, he would look and there was a Bible. I snuck it under his pillow. Okay, and okay, he let that slide. But then, oh, jess snuck a Bible under his car seat.
Jess:Okay, I was like that friend, I was sneaking all kinds of like anywhere I could find. I was sneaking some type of devotional or something. I was going to change him, I was going to make sure he knew Jesus. Then, finally, one day, he said I am going to disappear out of your life if you don't stop. Stop right now. And I cried for days and I prayed because I was like God, this is what I'm supposed to do. I'm supposed to make him see you, I am a follower of Jesus. I am supposed to tell him this is not what he's supposed to be doing. It took a while for me just to love him. So, as a representative of Jesus, at what point do we just stop and just love them.
Pastor Jonge:Here's what I would say, just listening to what you just said.
Jess:Jess.
Pastor Jonge:I would tweak your verbiage just a bit. And here's where you said I'm supposed to make him. That's where I would go ooh, are you, are you supposed to make him? And then the question is can you even make him? No, I cannot, right? Nope, isn't this the message of the truth of the gospel?
Pastor Jonge:I am not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ, for it is the power of God for salvation. It's where the power is and I think that that's the you know what. I don't have to be offendable. I mean, I don't have to offend. All I have to do is stand on the truth of Jesus Christ. It's the word of God. That's offensive.
Pastor Jonge:I can't be cute or clever or creative enough to bring somebody from death to life. That's the power of the gospel, that's God's business. My job is to step in to their area, where they are their darkness, and be Jesus to them, and I think that's the message of 2 Corinthians, 5, 17 through 21. I think about that. Where it talks about how we have been reconciled to God, there's this it's all about the reconciliation of God, that we've been reconciled, and I think that when we step into those relationships with people, we say, hey, guess what? I've been redeemed, I've been rescued, and you can be too. You can be as well, and I can do that without putting Post-its up all over their world and just kind of being willing to know them.
Pastor Jonge:What we do know about all sin is it's going to lead to emptiness. Whatever you're running after and whatever you're choosing, if it's not Jesus, it's never going to fulfill. And there's going to come a point in time where you're going to be desperate for truth and really peace. Jesus is peace, we know this, and Ephesians talks about that. That he becomes our peace. And apart from Christ, we're nothing. We're never going to amount to anything, and the beauty of it is we all understand what it's like to choose the lust of our flesh, and it's empty. It's empty, and so we earn the right to go. Hey, let me tell you how I've been reconciled. Let me tell you what I was chasing, where the gospel found me and it's truth, and leave the rest up to the Holy Spirit of God, who is bringing the truth of Jesus to them.
Steph:Okay, I have another question. I love this conversation. This is so good because there's so many of these situations that I've wrestled with in my own life. And so, backstory a few years ago, when I got married, I was looking for a photographer that fit in my tiny budget. Found a guy who I really loved his style and met with him and I'm like, oh, this guy is great. And my husband and I knew when we wanted to get married. It was important for us that we got married in a church. It was just one of my little girl dreams that you walk down the little steeple yes exactly, exactly.
Steph:But also, once I met with this guy and knew he was going to be our photographer, I was thinking he is living an actively open homosexual lifestyle and here is an opportunity for him to get to hear the gospel when, as the bride, how am I really going to have a chance to minister to him? Come to find out. Then we started following each other on social media, fast forward a bit and he's like yes, this scripture and I'm this believer and I follow Jesus in this way and all this stuff and I live with my partner and all these things, and now I am struggling Again. Everybody's got their sin and sins look different. But how do you love on somebody trying to share this light when they're like, oh, I know that light, I've got that light?
Pastor Jonge:Yeah.
Steph:Man, what a great conversation this is, jess. It is so good, whoa, and we want to be mindful of your time, so we're going to come back more next week.
Jess:Yes, but you don't have to wait two weeks. Tune in next Monday We'll drop part two of this episode of the Jesus Fix it podcast.
Pastor Jonge:Laughter with good friends, no matter how bumpy the road gets. That's what's waiting for you with every episode of another great podcast quirks, bumps and bruises with Melody and Candy. Subscribe today, wherever you listen.
