Papamutes
Papamutes is a podcast that dives into the minds of creative individuals—artists, writers, entrepreneurs, performers, and makers—who not only pursue their craft with heart but also find meaningful ways to give back. Each episode features an inspiring conversation about their journey, what drives their creativity, and how they’re using their talents to uplift others.
Papamutes
Gender Dysphoria: Finally Living Off Script
A face in the mirror that never felt quite yours. “A Late Transition, A Clearer Life: Teegan’s Journey Through Gender Dysphoria
“THE OPINIONS EXPRESSED OR VIEWS EXPRESSED BY GUESTS DO NOT NECESSARILY REFLECT OR REPRESENT THOSE OF THE HOST;
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You're listening to Unmuted with Papa Mutes. Welcome to Papa Mutes, everybody. Today my guest is Teegan Toftely. Tegan is a trans woman who transitioned late in life. She's coming to us from the great state of Minnesota. Tegan, welcome to Papa Mutes.
Teegan:It's a pleasure to be here.
Papamutes:So let's get right to it. At what point in your life did you feel the need like something wasn't right? Age-wise?
Teegan:Well, um, yeah, I I I guess it goes really far back. Uh probably around seven, six or seven, uh, you know, like first grade. You see, I started to get sort of a notion that, you know, things weren't normal. Um, and you know, obviously at that time, you know, a six or seven-year-old's not going to really have an idea of what it is exactly, or you know, uh have a like ready definition for that sort of thing. But it it started to kind of um become apparent around that time. And it was about the same time that I started getting um I started getting teased for uh you know being a little different. And so it it kind of coincided with that. So around first or second grade, is when that started happening. Yeah.
Papamutes:But what were the feelings you were having? Like you weren't feeling masculine. I mean, I mean you're a little kid, obviously, but yeah. What were you feeling that made you say something different?
Teegan:Well, um, it was a lot like just being, you know, you'd look in the mirror and you go, that's that's not me. I I I don't feel like that. And uh it it's it's a strange, uh it's it's kind of hard to describe to somebody who's not experiencing that. But yeah, you you feel like it's it's not you in the mirror, and that your body as you as you see it is is not what you uh believe it should be, I guess, is is probably the easiest way to describe it. You have an uh idea in your head that maybe uh you should be, you know, uh a girl instead of a boy. And you know, you're you're just kind of stuck with this this some kind of vague notion in your head, you know. Again, you know, as a kid, you're you don't have a lot of the cognitive ability to kind of decipher what's going on here. You just know that it isn't right. And so you're trying to figure it out from there.
Papamutes:But what did you look feminine or I mean as a kid? I don't even know. Right, that's what I mean. Like uh at six it's a little rough.
Teegan:I mean, well, you know, actually that's that's a good point. I mean, uh you know, uh when I was, I guess, in third grade, so I guess I probably would have been about eight, uh, I started getting uh teased for being kind of um kind of feminine, I guess. They would call me gay. Um and they would call me I don't know if I can say this. Uh I you know, they used to call me like faggot and you know, gay and uh homo and that sort of thing. And I was like, I you know, again, I I didn't know what any of that stuff meant. I I was a sheltered kid, I guess, but uh so that started uh coming through. And I you know it it's it's the people that you're around that start to actually make these notions, and kids are um really easy with those type of labels. So I guess that's that's kind of where it landed, yeah.
Papamutes:Yeah, kids could be rough, yeah.
Teegan:That's that's true.
Papamutes:Um uh so you you go to high school, I'm assuming. You know, you're in the high school age. Well uh you're in your 20s, uh still feeling the same thing, but not gosh yes.
Teegan:Uh so it was probably around 11 that I was able to put my finger on what was going on with myself. I was able to f uh kind of get that definition. Uh I and it was really a uh a weird way too, because I was I was with my my mom at at the grocery store and and uh she would typically buy like some sort of tabloid magazine, um along with whatever grocery she was buying. And this time she bought this magazine called uh Woman's Day. Uh I guess it's probably just a step up from like uh like the Inquirer or something like that. But they had this uh feature article on this guy from the Midwest who decided that he was gonna be um he was gonna be a woman. So uh you know the article was about his his journey, I guess. And it it didn't go well. Uh basically, you know, I read this story, I was like going, oh my gosh, uh I'm a transsexual. And the other part of it was, oh my gosh, this doesn't look like uh a really good way to be living. So I I I tried to hide it, and I I I recognized, you know, what I was and I recognized the place and the time that I was in. So I was 11, that would have been 1982. I was living in Washington, DC, and I was living in a military family. And yeah, notions of things like homosexuality and uh you know trans anything would have been completely off the radar and absolutely taboo. So uh from a family perspective, I recognized that it wasn't gonna be like a good run for me if I actually came out at that time. So I I basically just kept it on the down low. Um, my my parents actually around that same time kind of realized that I was a little off. And uh what ended up happening is they sent me to military school. So I didn't go to like public high school. I went to military school. I guess they wanted to kind of shape me up and get me right. And so I went to military school in in Virginia, and uh well, it didn't work. I it was it was uh I I I was able to hold it together. And honestly, the the education and the structure was probably good for me, but it's it's uh it didn't you know change my notion of where I was and what I was, and it certainly didn't help with my dysphoria, so it's it was one of those things, yeah.
Papamutes:I mean that would have to be the the last place you'd want to go to.
Teegan:Yeah, I it was it was not exactly uh it wasn't I I can't say that it was a pleasant experience, but uh you know, I was not doing well in public school. There was a lot of um isolation. I was kind of a pariah in junior high school, and uh, you know, moving to a new school where there wasn't, you know, in military school, you are kind of stripped of that individuality. You have a uniform and you're you know basically just kind of a cadet. And honestly, that that helped a little bit in regard to you know people calling me names or that sort of thing. You know, maybe I was I was presenting a little feminine, but it wasn't it wasn't coming through because of the uniforms and and the and the social regimens that we had within um military school. So, you know, perhaps it helped in terms of my keeping it on the down low. So yeah, that's that's where that was.
Papamutes:Uh, how long were you in the military? I mean, did you finish the school?
Teegan:Yeah, I graduated uh from that school in um I'm pretty old. So uh 1987 is when I graduated. So uh uh it it was a while ago. And um, you know, the funny thing is, and I don't know why I did it. Well, actually, I do know why I did it. I I joined the Army afterwards. So as soon as I graduated from high school, I joined the Army Reserves, and I did it because I realized I wasn't gonna be able to uh um to afford um college on my own. So I wanted to uh I I took advantage of the GI Bill. And so I went through the reserves, you know, the basic training and all that jazz. And again, I was able to hold it together. I I you know I I was just kind of coping. Uh geez, you know, it it was kind of difficult, but you know, you you you do what you have to do, and you recognize when you recognize that the outcome of being you know outed is you you know you get a medical discharge and you lose everything that you work for. You're motivated to kind of keep it keep it quiet. So that's what I did.
Papamutes:Now, were you dating?
Teegan:Oh gosh, yes. Yeah.
Papamutes:I well I mean not men, I'm sorry. Women.
Teegan:I actually, you know, that's it's funny that you say that because my um I've always kind of um I've bifurcated my my my identity and my sexuality. And uh my identity definitely was was uh wrapped up with uh dysphoria, gender dysphoria. So I was I was kind of stuck in a state where uh I felt like uh you know my my self-perception was was in a state where I felt like I needed to transition. But um my sexuality was always kind of I I guess I would call it flexible. Um I I I would I would date women, but uh I I was also attracted to men. I I didn't really have a problem with with that either way. So it was it was one of those things where you know if the opportunity arose, uh yeah, I would definitely go for it if I felt like I was in a state where uh there was like a mutual attraction or something like that. So um I I wouldn't call it exactly bi, well, I guess it is kind of bisexual, but in a way, uh I skewed towards female more than male. So I I dated a lot more women than I ever interacted with uh men. So it it was it was always uh kind of skewed in that direction. And ultimately um I got married to a to a woman. So I I I kind of decided that if I wanted to have a family, I would have to do that. And I did want a family, so I did get married, and I did have a um a long-term relationship with a woman.
Papamutes:Okay, and you have a dog.
Teegan:Ah I do have a dog. Um I guess we might want to stop recording for a second or anything like that.
Papamutes:It's not it's not that loud. Okay. I just hear in the background. That's fine. Yeah, it's a dog's name.
Teegan:I I think that I'm the only one in the house, so I might have to actually get him to kind of quiet down here. So I might need to kind of step out and tell him the pipe down. He's uh he's a wire hair pointing griffin, so he has a tendency to like want to patrol that um that perimeter in our in our house and in our uh neighborhood. So he's always ready to bark.
Papamutes:So what's the name?
Teegan:Oh, Rocco.
Papamutes:Um Rocco, yeah.
Teegan:My my daughter wanted to actually name him something like Rainbow Sparkles Unicorn or something like that. I said, no, we're not doing that. His name's Rocco, and that's the one we're going with. So that's what we did. It's fine.
Papamutes:I mean, it's it's off in the distance, it's not a distress. Yeah, okay. I mean, if you have to, you know, let me know. Um have you had any surgical procedures to enhance the process?
Teegan:Oh gosh, yes. Um, I I I always felt like um if you were uh if if you were transitioning and you didn't look you know female from the neck up, you're not gonna you're not gonna be able to actually integrate into society in any meaningful way. So I I went ahead and did FFS, which is uh facial feminization surgery. And I did that in I think it was 2021. So it was just after uh COVID kind of cleared out. I I had the surgery. And it was one of those things where it, you know, you look at it, you you get the surgery, and it's not an easy one, by the way. And you you know, they take the vantages off, and you're like, oh, well, that wasn't much. That was a lot of money for not much, uh not much bang for the buck, but it it takes a long time to kind of heal up and get in the right places. So things kind of work their way through it uh over no about eight, nine months. And um I I you know you don't notice it because it it's glacial slow. And uh I I was I was just kind of um I was at the mall like having like coffee one day, and uh this person just kind of walked up to me and said, Oh my gosh, you're gorgeous. What's your secret? And I was like, What? No, really? Really? Okay, um, I had surgery. So I, you know, not much of a secret really, but it I I kind of went with that. And yeah, it's it's um it's a really um interesting place because it did help my self-perception issues with dysphoria quite a bit. And um, you know, after the facial uh feminization surgery, I had uh breast augmentation, and that was to to kind of fix my um my body ratios so that they kind of conform to kind of a sh more feminine shape. So there's there's there's differences between men and women in terms of ratios. And uh the the augmentation kind of helped a lot, kind of you know, settle that down for me. And again, it this it was another thing that helped with my uh self-perception and kind of mitigated a lot of the symptoms that were coming from uh um gender dysphoria. Excuse me.
Papamutes:No problem. Uh any other surgery?
Teegan:Um, well, I'm slated for bottom surgery um next spring, and that that would be pretty much the end of it, I think. Um I do uh try to maintain things. Uh I I go with uh like uh uh Botox and Phil and that sort of thing. I mean I'm I'm two weeks away from my 56th birthday, and I need to I I felt like you know, because I transitioned so late, I felt like I missed missed out on my life uh in you know, at least a large part of or one aspect of my life. And it was kind of difficult for me. Uh so when I finally did transition and I was able to successfully integrate, I wanted to kind of um live that that compressed life. So I'm working hard to kind of hold it together and uh you know not just be the uh the trans grandma or whatever and uh just kind of get through through all of the aspects of an adult uh adult woman and uh uh kind of kind of experience all of that. So that's that's what I've been doing.
Papamutes:Now what uh what was the reaction of you know when you finally said I'm going to do this process of your family and friends?
Teegan:I mean well supportive or you know, yeah, it that's a yes and a no. So uh my immediate family when I first came out were uh they were shocked. Um they didn't know what to make of it because I apparently kept it very quiet for most of my life. You know, the odd thing is that I started transition in uh 2018. Uh I started uh my transition on July 11th, 2018, and um it was due to uh a lot of therapy that I was going through. So I started my therapy back in 2016 because I was having problems uh dealing with depression and anxiety and a uh mounting uh issue with health. Excuse me, uh mounting health issues. Uh I was getting migraines and uh they were getting worse and worse and worse. And uh I wasn't sure if it was due to the anxiety and the depression, but I I was working with my my therapist to kind of come up with uh some plans because I had no intention of uh transitioning at that point. I was pretty old and I kind of figured it wasn't gonna actually do anything for me anyway. So I I just kind of wrote it off.
Papamutes:You said you're 56, right?
Teegan:Yeah, essentially.
Papamutes:When did you transition? Like saying, Yeah, I'm going. Boom, let's do it. I mean, you know, the everyday type of thing.
Teegan:So what happened was uh I was in therapy, you know, from 2016 uh onward, and we worked through a lot of you know cognitive exercises and reframing to try to uh mitigate the gender dysphoria without transition, but nothing really worked, or it would work for a while and then it wouldn't work. So uh my therapist finally basically just said, look, you know, this is uh this is basically the last thing uh that we can do. So, you know, you're still having the migraines, you're still having a lot of uh depression and and anxiety. Um why don't we give this a try? I gave it I seriously just gave it I open L. I just said, yeah, no, it's probably not gonna work out. So you know what? Let's let's just do it and see what happens. Um so I started in 2018, and what ended up happening was um yeah, things got better. I I didn't notice any changes, honestly. I was just taking the hormone pills at the uh in the beginning uh to kind of like change everything up. And honestly, uh if if you talk to like a gynecologist or an endocrinologist, estrogen should actually be aggravating migraines, but in my case, it's it did not. I was uh I was headache free pretty much pretty much after that point. Now I recognize that that's probably psychosomatic. You know, that's in my head, but I um you know my therapist is like going, well, the the hormones probably weren't uh you know causing it, but it was basically your decision to kind of like do this thing instead of just holding it in all the time. You know, you you you hold this in for decades and it it takes us whole. So it was it was something that uh I started to realize that it had value. And uh, you know, people think that that transition is sort of sort of a whim sometimes, but in this case, I I really deliberated over it for a very long time. And um it really was the last option. Uh and uh I'm thankful and grateful that it was uh I had the ability to kind of go through that because it it really did help me.
Papamutes:Oh, forget, forgive me. I know you said you you got married. Are you still married?
Teegan:Oh gosh, yes. Well, that was actually, you know, we were talking about this earlier. It's just that um, you know, how did family and friends were uh like take to it? So initially my my family was not too receptive, I guess would be the way to go to it. Uh but I I explained it in terms of um I I guess meta medicalization and and psychology. So basically the way I I presented it was is that I had gender dysphoria. And gender dysphoria is a disorder that um creates problems with your self-perception, your body image. And uh it as it develops, it creates depression and anxiety in the person, which uh is debilitating after a certain point of time. And uh I was out of options, and I chose to go ahead with the medicalization, the transition, which is the medicalization of the uh the issues that come up with gender dysphoria. And so I I went ahead and did that, and it helped. And I I think that that might have helped with the conversation with my family because they kind of they kind of always looked at it as not like, oh, I'm becoming a woman or whatever. They're basically saying, well, you're mitigating a uh a disorder that you've had all your life and it's effective. So we're behind you because you're you're better for doing this. And that kind of happened over time, but yeah, my immediate family is is a hundred percent behind me, and they they see the changes and they they certainly value it because uh before that I was I was a complete wreck. I was again, I was having migraines probably about three times a week, and so it was pretty debilitating. And this is um this is such a a much better place than I was, you know, just you know, a few years ago. So yeah, they're they're on board. Now my friends, that was a mixed bag as well. You know, some of them didn't really understand it. It was a it was a matter of when I presented it to them in a lot of cases, because early on, um, you know, it was basically I think it was it was considered weird and they didn't they didn't really get it, even if I did explain it that way. But um the funny thing is is that the my friends that I you know I didn't see all that often. I I uh showed up later, um, you know, after you know the facial feminization and the breast augmentation and you know the voice lessons, and you know, it's just kind of getting integrated. They would look at me, well, first off, they didn't recognize me, but you know, the other part of it is like going, uh they would they would say things like, Oh my gosh, yeah, that was a good decision. Yeah, like oh yeah, I I I think that it was a good decision. So um they were on board.
Papamutes:Um so you're you're still you're you got married to a woman, correct?
Teegan:Right, that's right.
Papamutes:And you're still married to that woman.
Teegan:Yes. Okay, and yeah, that's it's uh she uh I mean, was she on board prior to like marriage?
Papamutes:Like uh she didn't know.
Teegan:She didn't know. I I kept it on the down low the whole time. I know that some people were like, why would you do that? Well, actually, there's a good reason for it because uh at the time I felt like I was coping, that it wasn't really an aspect of my life that I was going to pursue. So I felt like I was in a state where things were were managed, they were good, and I didn't really need to actually uh say anything about it because I was I was doing a good job of keeping everything, uh holding everything together. So uh I don't think that there was any lying or deception here. It was just a matter of uh at the time things were different than you know, uh I guess I would have been 18 years later, uh I was running into health issues due to uh my cope. So it's it's it changed, you know, the situation changed. You know, the the thing is is that if I would have come out before getting married, or just shortly thereafter, I doubt that it would have actually came out the same way that it did. In terms of uh, you know, when you when you're first married, um that partnership is based a lot on you know physical attraction, sexuality, and uh just that that that physicality that you have between you two young people. But as you get older, you build a partnership that's far beyond that. And you know, by the time you're in your late 40s, you know, I uh the way I think, uh, if you're doing it right, you have a partnership that's not just you know sexual and it's not just um physical, but you you have a deep uh sensual relationship that that kind of transcends all that. And I think that that's the reason why we stay together is because we're we're good together, you know, we're we're solid, and you know, um, you know, the kids see that too. So we we've been we've been together for uh uh gosh twenty-four years now, and um there's we have no intention of splitting up, and you know, we're we're doing great in that regard, so yeah.
Papamutes:And now uh I mean uh you don't look 56.
Teegan:No.
Papamutes:Well but I'm old as crust. I mean, yeah.
Teegan:Well the surgeries actually uh kind of help with that, uh honestly. Um and the the hormones uh also help with that. And you know, I I do I do things to kind of mitigate my aging, like uh, you know, Botox and uh doing uh you know fillers and that sort of thing. So it's not uh it's not magic, it's you know it's basically chemistry, I guess. But I I've done you know some you know laser procedures and in chemical peels and that sort of thing. As you as you get older, you you have to make a decision. Am I gonna just let it go or am I gonna just fight this? And I kind of decided I was gonna fight it the whole way. So um I I would get that opportunity to kind of live that complete life. So yeah.
Papamutes:Do do you ever uh you know get up I don't know, once in a while and just say, fuck it. Um you know, I'm not gonna make up, I'm not gonna do anything. I'm just gonna get up and t-shirt, jeans, and not doll yourself up and just go through the day in that sense.
Teegan:Yeah, I do it a lot, but it doesn't see you know it doesn't matter really, you know. Um there was a time when um gosh, I I for the longest time I I was kind of I was kind of in a state of denial because you you you uh all the changes are pretty glacial. You know, you don't really notice it from day to day. You're like, oh okay, whatever. And um I was I was at the gym and uh I was just I I don't undress or anything like that at the gym, by the way. But I do use the locker rooms because I need a locker to stuff my stuff in so I can go work out.
Papamutes:And I think which locker room are you going into? Men or women?
Teegan:Well I at that time I was I was going into the men's locker room but I got kicked out.
Papamutes:Really?
Teegan:They didn't want me in there anymore. And I was like, oh I guess that's a sign. Um so you wait wait because you look like a woman or because they're like I think you're in the wrong place and um yeah old guy what about going into the women's room now I I actually do go into the women's room but it's anyone say that they know I guess if they don't know it doesn't matter. Actually that's interesting because there's a fair number of people that do know and that's actually one aspect of late transition that I think a lot of people don't really understand. And that is is that uh if you're like 18 and you transition a lot of times you can kind of go stealth as they say where you kind of step into your identity and you can live your life without anybody really knowing. I'm you know day to day I I'm integrated but there's tons of people that know that I'm trans and you know it's everywhere in the community they go oh yeah there's Tegan hey Tegan you're the curiosity of the day so it's sort of like that but yeah there's lots of women that um at that um at that gym that know I'm trans but they don't care because I don't I don't create issues. You know if you if you're I I I like I said I don't hang out there. I just kind of throw my stuff in a locker and get out and uh that's that's kind of how I actually as all I how I always proceeded with those types of things because I I never liked hanging out in the locker room anyway even you know when I was like a guy I was like yeah I don't want to I want to do that I'll just shower at home thanks so that's what I do.
Papamutes:So what about what do you say or what's your feelings?
Teegan:I don't think you need to say anything but what your feelings on uh you know uh biological men and women's sports oh gosh um uh people that you know think it might be a mental disorder stuff like that like what what's the misconception all right so I guess I'll start with the the mental disorder part of it because I think a lot of people um my stance is not congruent with the the community because I do think it's a mental disorder and it it stems transition isn't so uh that's the medicalization of the mental disorder that is gender dysphoria gender dysphoria is a uh an issue with self-perception and uh transition is one of many uh possible treatments you could uh do to kind of mitigate the issue of gender dysphoria but in the end it is a mental disorder transition is just one of the ways to treat it um so I don't think that that that jibes well with a lot of um trans activists or uh you know community uh dogma on that so I I'll probably be on the outside on that one but that's that's what I think uh in terms of sports I guess I I I deviate a little bit on this too so here's my take on it so back in the 70s uh the United States came up with Title IX which basically mandated women's sports and it was a good thing we really needed it and it was something that um uh really has been a great benefit for college and for women and for society at large you know being able to compete in in a meaningful way at the college level is just a great thing and Title IX was basically the start of all that when um trans women uh started introducing themselves into women's sports they would do this by um you know just kind of competing like at the at the team level what I find in my own personal estimation is that you know before I transitioned as a guy if I competed I was mediocre you know maybe uh on a scale to from one to ten I was maybe a five or a six so I I was not that great but uh after transition if I competed against guys I would absolutely get trounced so my my my competitive level for against men at this point is probably about a one but against women it's much higher so it'd be like a seven or an eight and you know I'm not gonna I'm not gonna win every time um there's no way and I think that that actually is the case in most circumstances with trans women is that when you compete against other women you have just this uh slight marginal advantage but here's the problem you know it's not actually at the individual level it's at the um you know the team level and the uh league level and then it kind of like cascades out from there what what happens is is that when you have that marginal advantage you know and you're playing like softball or something uh you're the one trans woman on this team and then they start to win more right and but they don't win like the championship because of you or anything like that but they're winning more the coach will probably say well I I think that this person is doing really well maybe uh it's because they're trans. So they get another one and they have that slight marginal advantage again. And over time uh the other teams start to see that there's trans women that are competing on that team that's winning more. And so basically because of the nature of competition you want to win there will be more and more trans women entering those sporting events uh not because they have any type of nefarious uh end or you know whatever it's just because they're they have that slight marginal advantage over the women when they're competing. And basically what happens then is is that uh over time women's sports becomes trans women's sports because everybody wants them on their team and I I don't think that would be doing anybody a service and certainly not women certainly not colleges and and I I think we'd be worse for it to do it. Now I don't really have a great answer to fix that problem. I like I like the way you explained it um uh yeah I mean yeah it's it's it's uh it's a difficult uh prospect because I know that there's uh there's value in competition and you know trans women are just like everybody else they want to compete and uh well what do you do I mean uh on the one side uh oftentimes you're gonna find that uh trans women are just gonna be absolutely destroyed on a men's team if they're on a women's team yeah they have an advantage but it's still uh in the end uh probably not fair so not fair to the women yeah the pilot so it it's of course yeah it it ends up being well how do you manage that I I I thought about this for a bit and I was like thinking uh well you could throw in a handicap or something like that where you know you could do that but I I think that that's that doesn't really work either especially like for team sports I mean what do you do you spot them a couple points if they don't have a trans woman on your team that sounds that would be complicated yeah I yeah I'm not really sure what you would do with that honestly but it it is a a complicated problem and I think uh a lot of people are rather flippant about it because there just aren't that in in the grand scheme of things there's just not that many trans women and the the anybody that's doing competition as a trans woman is probably it's still probably pretty rare. The ones that stand out are the ones that are um you know absolute athletes that are just killing it and I don't that stands out as an outlier but it's it's also just a a feature of that whole thing and it it it it doesn't it doesn't look well uh good to trans women or to the trans community if you're you know if you're an MMA fighter and you're beating the crap out of a woman gosh I I can't even imagine how that that uh that came about um but it I there's gotta be a better way.
Papamutes:Yeah I agree. Um so do you feel like a woman or do you think you're a woman?
Teegan:I know that sounds kind of weird but it's like obviously you feel like a woman but but do you think you're a woman um I don't actually think that I'm a woman I I I don't believe that I mean I I think that would be kind of delusional I I'm dealing with again I'm dealing with gender dysphoria so I'm in a state where I I strive to look this way and I I work hard to integrate so that I'm not creating issues with other people or society or work or whatever. I'm just trying to do the best I can with this issue.
Papamutes:And you're happier.
Teegan:What's that?
Papamutes:And you're happier.
Teegan:Yes absolutely bottom line right yeah so it puts me in a better state when I'm when I I'm when I'm doing this so there's there's that so but I don't I don't believe that I'm a woman I I was born male I was born a man and uh transition helps me mitigate my self-perception issues and I I think that that again that's a bit of a deviation I think from what the community believes but that's that's kind of where I'm at in that regard too. Do you get any uh blowback or whatever you want to call it oh my gosh yes still like like at work or whatever you know like people can be rude I mean you know well actually you know I I came out at work I think in um just before I had the the facial feminization surgery I think it was in 2020 it was over covet I guess and um no actually it was it was one of these things where uh most people were just kind of afraid to confront it I guess they they were afraid that uh you know HR would come knocking if they they you know misgendered me or whatever.
Papamutes:And which can you what do you where do you work if you don't mind me asking or well actually I don't work there anymore.
Teegan:And it's it's I I was I was recently released I guess is way the way I put it so at that time you were getting some strength like people were afraid to oh yeah bring it up even if they were genuine because all it takes is one person to say hey you know you shouldn't be saying that and back and forth and it's so yeah eventually I just had a meeting with the entire team and I basically said look I I don't care I I don't if you mess up it it's okay. I I get that this is a little bit of a strange situation. You guys you don't have to walk on eggshells around me. It's okay I understand um they have been great or they were great uh so that it was one of those things where I I was I was really kind of worried how that was going to land but honestly that the whole company has been was just great and there was never any issues um clients sometimes were um interesting uh my the most interesting story I I don't think it it didn't have anything to do with trans it had more to do with um uh sexism actually and it was a situation where I was working with a client I've been a long-term expert with them uh and uh what type of work was it oh it was technical work so I was I was on the phone with them a lot and I I had worked with them probably probably about a decade before I transitioned and uh there was a a lull in you know projects with them but they called me back um after transition and they were talking about uh one of the issues with one of the products I had been helping them with and I was I was basically uh kind of throwing together a plan for them a new project to kind of get this working for them in a way that was like amiable to their ends and uh the guy spoke up and said well you know you know Tegan you seem like you know your stuff but I'd rather work with the expert which was me you know my old name and I was like oh dear and um was tegan your is Tegan your uh birth name or no no I I changed it yeah I actually that was one of the things that um uh a trans woman acquaintance that I uh I have uh encouraged and I think she was right to do it she she said that I uh I should change my name legally and uh get my birth certificate updated so that there aren't issues afterwards for integration and that sort of thing and that was that was a good idea and especially in this political climate because I don't think I think they don't let people do that anymore which I I I I think is not the best. I I've had um a lot of discussions about that sort of thing and there have been um you know some some changes within you know the the zeitgeist I guess since uh since January and uh some of it is is okay some of it I I feel like is is really vindictive and the the passport and the license stuff seems to be a little vindictive but I um so far I uh I have to say that uh the name change was a very good idea in my um in in my estimation. Okay all right um now before we wrap it up I notice a lot of guitar is there you do you collect guitars you're in a band what's going on well I used to play guitar quite a bit um it was kind of a band or just well no not really I I tried a few times to be in a van I just I I don't get along with other musicians um but it it's one of those things where I I did it for a really long time so I collected different different guitars for kind of different different sounds and different um uh different uses so I have a few but um you know I guess over the last year or so I kind of got away from playing so they've been on the wall for a while I mean I I dip in every now and then and I'm like oh yeah I still got it.
Papamutes:Well look Tegan this has been great I really really appreciate you taking the time to come on.
Teegan:It's uh been very enlightening uh you know uh this is a great chat well I I appreciate it and I and you know if if you ever feel like you need to kind of reach out again I I'm around I'll I'll talk about pretty much whatever and you know this this was a lot of fun I appreciate it thank you you have been listening to I'm needed for company
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