5 Steps to Shift Habits of Perfectionism and People Pleasing with Beatriz Victoria Albina

Perfectionism and people-pleasing aren’t bad habits—they’re survival strategies rooted in patterns of emotional outsourcing learned early in life. When you’re conditioned to regulate your nervous system through other people’s approval or needs, it can keep you stuck in cycles of over-giving, self-doubt, and disconnection from your own truth. Shifting these patterns isn’t just about changing your mindset—it’s about reclaiming your body, rebuilding self-trust, and creating relationships that honor your worth.

In this episode of Mindset Unlimited, I invited Beatriz Victoria Albina to join me in a conversation about ending emotional outsourcing and the 5 steps to shift habits of perfectionism and people pleasing.

Some of what we talk about in this episode includes:

• Why perfectionism, people-pleasing, and co-dependency are rooted in emotional outsourcing—and how that impacts your sense of safety, belonging, and worth.
• The difference between unhealthy empathy and healthy, grounded empathy (and why empathy isn’t the issue, the issue is boundaries).
• Somatic practices and the BRAVE process for shifting perfectionist and people-pleasing habits in everyday life.
• How to build self-trust and regulate stress in small, sustainable steps that support healthier, more interdependent relationships.

Thanks for listening! 

Have thoughts on this episode? Send me a voice memo: https://www.speakpipe.com/MindsetUnlimited

LINKS TO REFERENCES MADE IN THIS EPISODE:

Empathy Isn’t the Problem

Things to Say Cheat Sheet

Dr. Resmaa

Kai Cheng Thom

CONNECT WITH BEATRIZ

Website

Order the book “End Emotional Outsourcing”

Feminist Wellness Podcast

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Facebook

LinkedIn

CONNECT WITH VALERIE:

Sign up for Valerie’s newsletter

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Schedule an exploration call

Listen to the Unlimited Playlist

This podcast was produced by Valerie Friedlander Coaching

Proud member of the Feminist Podcasters Collective 

Transcript

Valerie Friedlander: 0:00

Hello, my friends, and welcome to another episode of Mindset unlimited. Mindset tips, tools and inspiration for women in a time of change. I'm your host. Valerie Friedlander, ICF certified coach, sociologist, intersectional feminist artist, mom and nerd, and today we are talking about five steps to shift habits of perfectionism and people pleasing. If you are someone who has struggled with these habits, perhaps under the umbrella of codependent behaviors, I want you to know that you are not alone. I have definitely been there, and these are things that I wish that I had known back when I started. I also want to recognize that when you have a lot of self awareness without these tools, we tend to get stuck in our heads and try and think our way out of it, and end up beating ourselves up for beating ourselves up for doing these things. Oh, I shouldn't try and be perfectionist. I should let that go. I shouldn't be people pleasing. I should have said, No, what's wrong with me? Blah, blah, blah. We really, we're really rough on ourselves. And so first, know that this is very common. You are not alone, and there's nothing wrong with you. These patterns are survival strategies. They're rooted in patterns of emotional outsourcing that we learn early in life as a survival mechanism. And we're not taught how to regulate our nervous system, which is where these patterns are embedded. And so, yeah, we get stuck in our head around it. So to address this and bring it into the body, I have invited Beatrice, Victoria Albena to join me in this conversation. She has a new book coming out on September 30, so you can pre order that now there is a link in the show notes. Béa is a UCSF trained family nurse practitioner, somatic experiencing practitioner, Master, certified somatic life coach, and the author of the forthcoming end emotional outsourcing, a guide to overcoming codependent, perfectionist and people pleasing habits. She's also a breathwork meditation guide with a passion for helping humans socialized as women to reconnect with their bodies, regulate their nervous systems and rewire their minds so they can break free from codependency, perfectionism and people pleasing and reclaim their joy. She's also the host of the feminist wellness podcast. Holds a Master's Degree in Public Health from Boston University School of Public Health, and a bachelor's in Latin American Studies from Oberlin College, my alma mater. She was born in Mar del Plata Argentina. Béa grew up in the great state of Rhode Island. She has been working in health and wellness for over 20 years, and lives with her wife, Bailey Albina and their handsome all black cat weed. I had so much fun with this conversation, I am thrilled to share it with you. I know you're going to see how much fun we had together. In this episode, you will learn why perfectionism, people pleasing and codependency are rooted in emotional outsourcing, and how that impacts your sense of safety, belonging and worth. The difference between unhealthy empathy and healthy, grounded empathy, and why empathy isn't the issue. The issue is boundaries, hint, hint, somatic practices and the brave process for shifting perfectionist and people pleasing habits in everyday life, and how to build self trust and regulate stress in small, sustainable steps that support healthier, more independent relationships. Before we get started, I do want to acknowledge one of the things in this episode we celebrate is that we were able to survive, and that we built these skill sets that supported us in making it through the dynamics in our life, and something that we didn't mention, that I want to do that here, which is just because we had to be strong and build these skills that aren't serving us anymore, but that we had to to survive, and they are worth celebrating. It is also totally understandable and important to grieve that we had to do it because, just because we did it and we're badasses doesn't mean that it isn't sad that we had to that there isn't an emotional charge around having to do that. So I just want to acknowledge that here. The other thing that I want to let you know is that I have recently set up a speak pipe, which will be linked in the show notes, which basically is like a little voice messenger where you can click on the link click. Click on the microphone button and record a 92nd little message to me. So as I mentioned, every episode, I love to hear from you. So if there is a celebration, an insight, a question or a topic request for the podcast, please click that link, click the button, it's super simple, and send me a note. I would love to hear from you, and you can do it anonymously. Okay, now, without further ado, let's get started. Welcome Béa. I'm so excited to have you on Mindset Unlimited.

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 5:41

I'm so happy to be here.

Valerie Friedlander: 5:43

Yeah, this is a real pleasure to meet a fellow Obie.

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 5:48

Yay.

Valerie Friedlander: 5:48

So yeah. Anyway, I'm looking forward to this

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 5:52

It's special.

Valerie Friedlander: 5:52

Yeah, it is. It is. We are such a tight community. I mean, there's like the whole Obies marry Obies thing, which I have fallen into as well. But we just, we have a we have a vibe.

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 6:05

Yeah, we really do. It's pretty magical.

Valerie Friedlander: 6:08

It is. So that's a little sampling of you, but tell us a little bit about who you are.

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 6:16

Oh, yeah. So now my mind's only thinking Oberlin, where I played rugby, was in a food Co Op I did like the most traditionally weird Oberlin things back in the day. But, okay, it's been 20 years. Woman, have an identity.

Valerie Friedlander: 6:31

I mean, we have formative things, and I feel like that

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 6:35

Oberlin was it.

Valerie Friedlander: 6:36

Oberlin was definitely one of them for me.

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 6:39

Oh, so good, so good. Listen, what do I do now? Okay, so I am a Holistic nurse practitioner of the science based branch, not the snake oil based branch, a delineation. I didn't have to say out loud just one year ago, but now I think it's so important to be like, I don't think you all have parasites, and you don't have to detox them under the full moon. Like, I love witchcraft, but that's a bit much. Okay, so I'm a functional medicine holistic nurse practitioner. I have a master's degree in public health, because obese are nerds. I am a master certified somatic life coach, and I am a podcast called feminist wellness, and the author of this new book and emotional outsourcing, how to overcome your codependent, perfectionist and people pleasing habits. That hits the shelves September 30, and I'm so excited about it.

Valerie Friedlander: 7:24

Oh yes. Well, I can't wait to talk about it, because so much of it hits on so many things. The people who are listening are gonna be like, Oh, wow, yes, yes. This is, this is definitely my kind of books. And I you gave away the nerd thing. That's one of the ways I introduce myself, is and nerd, and there you go. Now everybody knows.

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 7:46

Now everybody knows. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say people flock to the both of us because nerd, yes, I think so, because nerd is best. What is better than nerd?

Valerie Friedlander: 7:58

I truly don't know. Okay, so my next question is, what is a limit that you took for granted that you have since unlearned? I think the labeling around nerd as a kid is definitely one of mine. But what about you?

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 8:14

Yeah, gosh, what is a limit I took for granted? This question is actually really challenging for me, and I think part of it is because I have this magnificent ADHD brain. Here I am tagging, like, three minutes in, but I do have this brain that, like, decides it's gonna do a thing and just does it. Yes, you gotta mean, even I do know what you mean, right? When it's like, That's ridiculous. No one can do that. Why would you do that? What do you mean? You're gonna quit medicine and become a life coach. That's dumb, like the number of people who said that, and my brain is just like it doesn't see the limitations in a way, right, which gets me in a lot of trouble. Let me tell you what, right? Because I leap before looking slowly. I'm like, halfway down the canyon before I was like, Wait, should I have a parachute? Well, we're gonna tuck and roll, I guess you know what I mean. But you know, I feel like there was a point at which I felt really stuck in life and really held down by my own emotional outsourcing, which I'm sure we'll define in a moment, and I didn't see a way through. And I think that was a limitation where I didn't have any modeling of good communication, of truly doing what you wanted to in life, of not being codependent, of not living in profound resentment. You know, I just had my parents right? Like the way so many of us do as, like, the the model of what a romantic relationship can be, and it wasn't looking cute, and I didn't realize that it could look different, because I hadn't really seen it, right? So we're, I'm an immigrant. We came to the US when I was. Little kid. We escaped the Dirty War in Argentina, and we didn't have friends like my parents didn't have friends like. So there weren't other couples around. There weren't people around. It was a very quiet, little lonely existence. And so I didn't see healthy relating. And so I think that was an internal limit of not knowing, yeah, what connection that was honest and loving and truly kind versus very nice. My parents are very But truly, deeply kind. I didn't know what that could look like, yeah, and that is, in part like my the work I did to leave a not great marriage and really rewrite myself, was what led me even deeper into the work I'm doing, deeper into somatics, which started at Oberlin, right, with improv dance and like doing all that somatic exploration. We weren't calling it that then, because, you know, we're from the 90s, but, but it's what we were doing. And, yeah, yeah. All that work to break through the limit of what healthy relating can look like, really is what, what fast forward many years, led to this book, which I'm sure is going to be an instant bestseller.

Valerie Friedlander: 11:14

Yeah. I mean, I think, I think it needs to be.

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 11:17

I would agree.

Valerie Friedlander: 11:18

So, yeah, yeah. So all you listeners, all you listeners, there are several things that you said that like, jumped out at me. One of the things, I think we'll talk more about this too, because that difference of kind versus nice and how we relate, like, basically that is, you can't have conflict.

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 11:37

Wait, what? You can't have what? No, I don't even know that word. That's not a word. I gotta go actually.

Valerie Friedlander: 11:41

Yeah, exactly! It's been really nice talking. Be well. Good luck. Yeah. Exactly. Conflict is dangerous. You don't do that. That's

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 11:54

Lions.

Valerie Friedlander: 11:55

Yes, definitely lions. Well, abandonment,

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 11:58

Rejection,

Valerie Friedlander: 11:59

Right? All of that. And so I want to, I know we're going to get into that, but one of the things that you said when we're talking about limits, and I this really relates to what you are describing, is the idea of, oh, I'm, I'm just an empath. I heard somebody recently share about this experience that they had where they called something out, and I have been leaning a lot more into calling things out, even though it disrupts my nervous system, yeah, and knowing that it's important, knowing that I need to use my voice, I need to use my privilege to say this is a problem. But so often we go to that label of, well, I am an empath. And looking over some of the things that you've written about and that you talk about when it comes to emotional outsourcing, I would love for you to to describe like that relationship between empath and that label we put on ourselves and emotional outsourcing.

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 13:01

Yeah. So I'll start by defining emotional outsourcing, yeah. So, it is my umbrella term for our codependent, perfectionist and people pleasing habits. And I came up with this term because I didn't like the other terms. Right? Again, we're nerds. Language matters. Words matter. Words are spells, right? And so, co dependent. Get outta here. I'm not codependent. I went to Oberlin. I am a strong feminist woman. I am an independent woman. I am not co nothing. Get outta here. But wait, is it okay that I said that? Are you mad at me? Valerie, oh, my god, are you mad at me that I said that? Right?

Valerie Friedlander: 13:41

No, I'm not. It's okay.

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 13:43

I'll take it back. I'm so sorry. I said I'm so sorry.

Valerie Friedlander: 13:46

Can we shut down this conversation?

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 13:49

Right?

Valerie Friedlander: 13:50

Yeah.

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 13:51

So doing every codependent thing but hating the word.. what is... What happens then you don't get help because you can't get help for something you've completely screwed. That's not my problem, because I'm all good help. And then you keep on living in the same old lousy patterns. So true with perfectionism. Because I wasn't a perfectionist. I messed all kinds of things up. Do you know I can't believe I'm going to admit this. I got a 96 on an exam once. Can you even imagine being that much of a failure? Wow, so bad. Come on, failure. Okay? And people pleaser, people are so upset with me all the time, so I couldn't possibly be a people pleaser. I mean, I'm working hard at it to keep everyone happy always, right? But you see how we get into this morass of like, I'm not the thing. So I guess I'll keep being the painful, really challenging way I'm being. So I wrote out a Venn diagram, like like a nerd would do, and realize what we're doing in all three instances is outsourcing, frankly, our whole lives. We're outsourcing our sense of the three vital human needs, which are, safety, belonging. Saving and worth, and we source them from everyone and everything outside of ourselves, instead of from within, at a great cost to self. And that's, that's the the crux of it, right? It's the great cost to self, because I love giving. I love caring. I love taking care of Yes, yes, but, but, I give from my overflow. Now, talk about a limit, huh? I give from my overflow. I give from my full cup. I give from from energy I have to spare. And because I'm not flinging my energy around everywhere trying to make everyone love me, I have so much energy to spare to take my friend's soup and drive them to the airport and be a loving member of my community and volunteer to translate, right? Because I'm not leaking out everywhere, subconsciously trying to manipulate everyone to like, love and approve of me. Yeah, yeah. So that's how we define emotional outsourcing, also as a way to move away from identity, right? I am a codependent because I know we're gonna, we'll get into that a little more, because that can just jump off a bridge and as a way to begin to contextualize this in a very Oby way within a sociopolitical reality. Yes, you asked me about empaths. Listen, are some people empaths? Sure are most people who are like, Oh, I'm just like, feeling everyone's feelings all the time, and that's deeply impacting me. What they're really talking about is a lack of boundaries, of limits, of of a clear delineation of where you start and I stop, right, yes, which is, which is the crux of emotional outsourcing, because I don't have my own feelings, my own thoughts, my own choices, unless you think they're okay, what do you think I should do? Do you like my shirt? Should I wear? Should I go change? Right? Everything's about you. You create my life. And we do that because we don't trust ourselves, because we've been trained up to trust others instead of ourselves, and because we're always scared of making a wrong, very wrong, very terrible, wrong, bad decision, that if you make the decision and I hate it, I'm not to blame, which is really convenient, because I'm constantly beating myself up. So there's, there's like one fewer thing to beat myself up about. Great, right? So, yes, I believe we can feel others' feelings in a healthy, grounded, beautiful, interdependent way, and it is my experience. Having done this for a long time, I've already told y'all, I'm from the 90s. When most people say I'm an empath, what they mean is I have very porous boundaries, no grounded, embodied, centered sense of self, and I just let everyone's energy flow into me and disrupt my internal systems, instead of clearly knowing where I start and stop, and they do the same.

Valerie Friedlander: 18:04

Yeah, yeah. I love the breakdown safety, belonging, worth and the recognition of boundaries. Is one of the reasons why, you know, I look at it like we want to take off the unconscious limits, but we still want to have limits correct, because we're in a body, and we can only hold so much, and we need to have ownership of our own self. Yes, and when we feel like our sense of self and our ability to be okay is external to us, I mean, usually that's rooted in a trauma response of that there, there. I feel unsafe, and so I need to monitor and pay attention to all of the things outside of myself in order to protect myself, to stay safe. And there's I have been doing so much unpacking of my own programming. I did a training with resmaa menakem A while back where he talked about the dynamics of of you know, white women, gatekeepers and that sort of thing. And I realized that the patterns that I thought were ones that I got because I grew up in a home impacted by alcoholism. So it was all about protecting my dad's feelings so that he would not need to go drink, or he would not need to be dis dysregulated, right? He didn't, he didn't learn the tools to regulate his himself. So I needed to become the person to help regulate the environment so that he could be okay. And that was a safety mechanism that I was conditioned to. But then I realized, Oh, this is actually like system wide. This is rooted in patriarchy, and this is rooted in white supremacy, and all of these ways that we learn to to be nice, to regulate externally, so that we stay safe. But what that does is create that awful space of I don't have boundaries because I don't know who I am, because my energy is so out here, and. So when I do speak up and I do choose to disrupt the system, my nervous system gets all kinds of out of whack. And you've talked about this in, I think it was an Instagram that I watched of yours where you were saying something about, like, dysregulation isn't necessarily bad, you know, I talk about, like, taking things out of this binary and like, Ooh, I shouldn't be dysregulated. I need to make sure that I'm always regulated and like, but does that. So would you talk some about that aspect?

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 20:29

With endless joy, because, well, because capitalism is just doing to "nervous system regulation" and "somatics," what it does to everything else, which is trying to make it like this palatable bite size, super simple thing,

Valerie Friedlander: 20:43

Another tool of the system. Let's appropriate this so that we can use it in this wellness industry.

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 20:52

Oh, yeah. I saw, like, somatic accounting sold to me on Instagram the other day. I was like, what the actual f are you talking about? So anyway, I think we could go down that pathway, maybe next episode, Like I talk about word nerds. I'm going to drill down to "What we'll do that. does that word mean?" "What are we?" "What is that?" "What are we talking about here?" "Could we?" I mean, that's that's why I have a podcast, right, right? I want to last a couple episodes back. I did one on empathy, and that whole binary of is empathy destroying the world? Is it what heal the world? Well, actually, that's not even the right conversation, because exactly what you just described when it comes to empathy. So many layers of that, anyway, So many layers, so much nuance. So the question was, why we don't need to be regulated all the time?

Valerie Friedlander: 21:38

Yeah.

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 21:39

Hey, are you wearing pants? Did you get out of bed? Did you have food this morning? That's thanks to the cortisol awakening curve. So the the car, the cortisol awakening response happens about 30 minutes after you wake up. Because science, it's natural we should, our cortisol should go up because, you know who's also awake, if, if the lights are on outside, you know the big light in the sky, that big red one, lions, also tigers, also bears, right? So if the sun's out, get up. Get out of your cave, go light the fire and be prepared to survive on the Savannah. Of evolution, one more day, we're supposed to have some sympathetic activation. It's the only way to get up in the morning. Try to, try crossing the street in New York City without adrenaline, without sympathetic activation. Try it. Good luck. Bon chance to leave. I mean, Paris as well, right? Like you, we need sympathetic activation.

Valerie Friedlander: 22:37

Well, in these days, everywhere, because everybody's on the phone.

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 22:40

Okay, well, there's also that fair, yeah, but like, how about Gaza? How about Sudan? How about Congo? How about Flint, Michigan? How about DC under martial law? How about... Please have some sympathetic activation. Please be pissed off. Please be angry. But listen, I want sympathetic activation and I want to spend a night that's more and more frequent these days, sobbing my eyes out because people are being starved to death, not just in one place, but in many. Right? And I want to be very dysregulated about that... with the capacity to regulate. Oh say, yeah. So here's what happens when we don't have the skills and tools to work with our nervous system work with ourselves somatically, when we're in emotional outsourcing and we're living by default and outside of intention, is that we're just moving and moving and moving and moving and moving, and something pisses us off, so we explode, and then we freak out, and then we throw the thing, and then we are fine. We didn't actually process the thing. We just keep moving and keep moving right? And so that's when we're dysregulated in the really scientifically dangerous way, meaning we have these chronic elevations in stress hormones that lead to actual harm to the vascular epithelium, to the lining of our blood cells. I mean, the data is this very robust. And I'm not the first nerd to be out here being like, stress is bad, but you know, it's, it's a, it's a robust, evidence based sense stress that you're not looking at in the snout. Yes, because when I am sobbing my eyes out. I know why, and I know how to self soothe when the feeling has moved all the way through my body. And that's a skill we need, yeah, is to be present to the emotion, not to regulate it away. Unless you're driving on I95 through New Bedford, unless you know what I mean, you're like, coming off the loop, and you've got emerge in Chicago, please regulate yourself.

Valerie Friedlander: 24:45

Yeah.

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 24:46

Right? Or you're trying to poop in peace and a toddler's like, pulling your pants for the 400 just regulate yourself before you scream at someone I don't know, two feet tall.

Valerie Friedlander: 24:57

Yeah.

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 24:57

Right? So we regulate ourselves. Goes away from having our full emotion because we are kind and loving animals in a society, but it's about choicefulness. And when we're in the depths of emotional outsourcing, we are as far from agency and choicefulness as humanly possible. We're trying, as you said earlier, no conflict. I never heard of her. No, I don't, I don't, I don't know what that is. No, I don't know. Everything's fine. I'm fine. It's totally fine. We're good, we're good, it's fine, it's fine. Are you good? Are you happy? You all may make your saying, what you find, are you mad at me? You're mad at me. I'm sorry. What did I do? I'm sorry. Right? We're living in this chase of other people's approval, other people's safety. So do we need to be regulated all the time? Absolutely not. That's robots. That's, I don't know, monotonous. That's not being a human. That's not the full breadth and depth of human life. We should get very angry and very sad and profoundly joyful, right? Yeah. I mean, my cat will go through all of those emotions, like, six minutes, right?

Valerie Friedlander: 26:06

I have an orange one, so it's like, I love you I love you... Rawr! Stop it!

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 26:08

They've got the one brain cell, and I love the orange so much.

Valerie Friedlander: 26:14

Yeah, yeah. They're great. So, so a lot of the listeners have heard me talk about, like, some of the the things that go into, okay? Well, we need both and stepping into, as I just mentioned, stepping into those spaces of it's time to start speaking up. It's okay. This is a habit that we have that the nervous system, we're pushing past a boundary that we learned a long time ago, and there's going to be some dysregulation there, because it feels unsafe, because our system has learned this is unsafe to speak up and to be kind. And then I also just had this conversation talking about, I engage conflict out of love. Yes, right? I show up to this. I'm willing to show up to conflict because I care, and maybe it's I care about you, and so I'm willing to show up to the discomfort of this conflict, the tension of this conflict, because I care about you, and I am willing to show up to the PTA meeting where I need to call out some behavior that's harmful to people who are in this school, that is because I love. Because I love the people, because I care. And doing that from this place of love versus this place of just anger and and all of the things that are fueling the systems that we're in right now, and I wonder when I think about showing up out of care, some of that is also I have to let go of the outcome, right? I have to let go of how you receive this like I'm going to show up to you with love, and you might not ever want to talk to me again. Boy is that upsetting? Boy Does that hurt? Boy Does that hit like all of the reasons why I just want to be nice and I don't want to be right kind and show up with love, and we need tools to be able to process what happens. And the thing that we're afraid of, that abandonment right? We're wired for belonging, that abandonment could happen, right? And what are we more attached to? What do you offer in terms of, you know, maybe it's a maybe it's a process or a check in, or a way to to be with oneself in those instances where we want to show up and everything, both from way back when, when we learned these things that this is dangerous, to now, when I don't want to lose this friendship, or I don't want to get the retaliation that I might face from the school system, or, you know, showing up to All right, how do I deal with me first? Because what I'm hearing you say is that I need to deal with the me part to be able to do those things. I need to have that intentionality and that regulation within myself, or at least awareness that, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to get dysregulated right now. So like, here we are. I'm dysregulated already, and I'm going to lean into that. And I'm not just going to soothe it away and try and make it you know, like, put the band aid on. I'm going to address the gangrene, right?

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 29:31

And so those are, in their way, separate processes towards the same end. And I also, before it leaves my mind, I wanted, yeah, you talked about addressing the friend, even though you might lose the friend. And the phrase that came to me is in Spanish,"mejor sola que mala companada,""better alone than poorly accompanied," right? Like better than being in bad company. And, man, that one's done me some good to remember that.

Valerie Friedlander: 29:59

Yeah. Yeah, and trusting that, even if they're not there right now, that maybe they'll, they'll take that and learn I've had to take some really unpleasant tasting medicine and go sit with it for a while before I could come back to a relationship and go, Okay, I digested what you needed to give me, and thank you for that. And and now I'm ready to move forward with you.

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 30:22

Right? But that there in you're modeling for all of us the process of being in relational regulation, right? To be able to say, like, oh, okay, I'm feeling myself get a little activated. What you said really, like, my initial feeling is like, ouch, that really hurts and and I have enough, enough presence and embodiment, and I'm at home within myself enough that I don't have to make it about me, but I recognize It's for me, right? There's a little nuance there. Yeah, back upon me, but it's to help me, should I choose it? And to then regulate yourself to say, like, I'm not going to swipe at my friend who comes to me with love and care. And so then I can go away and have my big anger, or have my big sad, like have the big cry, have them both at the same time, and then come back to them in that regulated way, like you just modeled something really potent that I think a lot of folks that are deep in emotional outsourcing have no access to. And so to those with no access, I will say we need to learn somatic practices to ground and regulate ourselves, and we need to practice them when we're not in the boiling water, when we're not right going home to visit our parent with substance use, when we're not confronting anything, when things are super copacetic and super chill, like, when you're in a nice warm shower, right? And your family's taken care of, all you're thinking about is, is your conditioner? That's when I want you to practice somatic practices, right?

Valerie Friedlander: 32:18

Can you give us an example?

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 32:21

Yeah for sure, and so I'll say that yeah. So my my process is the brave process. B, body first. R, recognize your outsourcing. A, ask what you want. V, voice self loyalty and E, encourage yourself. So we start with body first. I love thought work. I love a sort of CBT framework where, you know the stoics we look at our thinking, we ask ourselves, if I like my way of thinking, we work with our mindset phenomenal, all the nerdy nerdies, and it keeps us living from the neck up, which can only take us so far, because our minds are also the place of our socialization and conditioning under the patriarchy, white settler colonialism and late stage capitalism, in addition to our family of origins and all their survival skills, right? So some wild percent of our thoughts are that they're not really yours, right? You heard your dad say them. You heard your Uncle say them. You heard a teacher or

Valerie Friedlander: 33:20

a TV show or whatever

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 33:23

and so they got imprinted, right and implanted. And the thoughts you keep thinking of the thoughts you have on repeat, and they become your identity, until you can drop into the body. Because through the body, we can find other narratives. We can find other ways of being. We can find wisdom and our own truth beyond our habitual thoughts, because our habitual thoughts will keep us in a habitual posture towards life, and a habitual nervous system state in relationship to life, right? You put dinner down and someone makes like a little face, your habitual nervous system reaction and then thought is empathetic activation. Thought, they don't like it. They don't like me. I've failed. I'm a terrible mom. Oh my god, I'm the worst everyone's gonna know. I'm terrible. I'm gonna die cold and alone on a mountaintop. So in coming to the body and taking a different posture towards it, right, different grounding. Hey, I see you made a face when I put dinner down. What's that about, Oh, nothing. I just, you know, I I'm four, and so I don't like things that are read this week. Oh, okay. Oh, okay, and not the spiral towards your own lonely Doom, right?

Valerie Friedlander: 34:35

Yes.

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 34:36

So body first, the invitation is to come into the body. And will always caveat for those of us for whom the body was the site of trauma, that might not be a great idea. And if that's you, and if you're like, Nah, girl, I'm not into the body, forget about you. Just stay on the border of the body. So what others might do a body scan, maybe you get present to where your skin meets the air and the only energy going into the body is with your direct say. So how do we come into the body? We do two vital things. And if this is the only thing anyone takes from this whole conversation, I die happy. Orienting. So we do an orienting anchor scan. So the nervous system when activated, when dysregulated, time travels. So it's not in the here and now with us here and now. It's in the past when the scary thing happened, or ruminating towards the future when the scary thing might happen. And so in order to help ground the nervous system, regulate the nervous system, we need to remind it of when we are. Yes, who we are, but when we are. And we do that quite simply by looking around. And I know it sounds banal, it's like too easy to work, but, but try it when you're freaking out, but it works. So we literally just look around and take in your environment. You know, we have senses for a reason, and so we can use them, right? What do you see? Literally. Name it. Door. trampoline. I love my trampoline. Painting. Lamp. Book. Cat. What do you see? What do you smell? What do you taste? And the more towards punching someone in the snout you are, the more senses I'm going to invite you to bring on board. Right? What does your arm feel like? What does your shirt feel like? What does your hair feel like? Smell your hair that smells like. My nice condition, I just got a new conditioner. I'm pretty obsessed. Really engage your senses. Then find your feet and find the floor so when we can connect in with the Earth, we can remember that we're held. We can remember we're not alone, right? We can remember that we're these tiny, beautiful things on this earth, and that we are always in community, whether we feel like it or not.

Valerie Friedlander: 36:57

Yeah, one of my teachers, Kai, said, that our first and most stable attachment is to the earth.

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 37:05

Yeah. And I think before colonialism and capitalism, it was for all of us, right?

Valerie Friedlander: 37:12

Yeah, well, it's returning to that. So, like, that's, you know, remembering, oh, this is,

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 37:18

this is my true whole place.

Valerie Friedlander: 37:20

Yes, well, that's one of the problems. Is how disconnected we are. But anyway, that's from that. And so tapping into your feet and the earth.. Yes. And next, we recognize when we're outsourcing. And this is not, I didn't say calling ourselves out. I didn't say catch ourselves. I don't like carceral language. Nobody needs another cop, right? We notice and we notice gently, so the way to prepare ourselves for this is to make a list of your emotional outsourcing habits and to make it ahead of time. When I say something slightly vulnerable, I tend to watch everyone's face to see if I'm okay. Write it down when there's a big decision to make, or any tiny decision where to go for dinner that I need to make for more than just myself, I outsource it because I don't want to disappoint anyone, because I'm scared rejection trail right from the banal to the deepest things. Write down what you tend to do in a perfectionist, codependent people pleasing habit set. We're going to treat this as information, not something that's wrong with you. My hair is brown. I tend to be a perfectionist in this way. I wear a size 10 shoe. I tend to be a people pleaser. In this way, neutral facts, because they're survival skills, right? And so we're never here to judge them, and the clearer you can get on them ahead of time, the more you can recognize them. Like birders know what they're looking for. They know who's in Central Park this time of year. They don't just go out and go, Well, let's see what... you know? Like, you know what you're looking for, know the patterns, Yeah, know the patterns. And they're just they're there because there's a reason that they were there. At some point they made sense.

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 39:03

Yeah! Frankly, because you're freaking brilliant,

Valerie Friedlander: 39:05

Yeah! How badass that you did that.

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 39:08

Right?

Valerie Friedlander: 39:08

Like that you learned how to survive. Wow.

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 39:12

So good. Next, once you've noticed, oh, I'm doing the thing, I want to invite you to get, get, like, a little like me, like, Where's Waldo? You know when you're the first kid to find Waldo? Man, 10 points to me goes in my permanent record like that. Like, oh, I noticed the thing. A of brave. What do I actually want? Not what they want, not what will keep you out of trouble and that will keep people from having feelings. What do you want? Now, 9.974% of out of 10 people are going to say, I don't know.

Valerie Friedlander: 39:45

I was about to say the I don't know I feel like is another pattern that's like, Oh, hey, there's something else there.

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 39:52

Yeah. So we've got with two things to say to this. We ask to ask, we do not ask because we want an answer. Yeah. How's that for flipping that paradigm, we ask so that our spirit hears us asking and knows that, oh, that mammal cares enough about me exactly. It's like opening the door, right? We ask just to ask. You don't get an answer. Who cares you didn't have an answer anyway. So what would you lose? But you heard yourself matter enough to you to ask, yes, once you're comfortable with that, I'll invite you when you hear I don't know, here's your retort, okay, brain, you don't know, but if you did know, what would you want? It is some coaching Jiu Jitsu. I don't know how it is that it works every time, but it's masterful. I do it to my clients, I do it to my wife, I do it to myself. But if you know, I know you don't know, honey pie, it's fine. Don't worry about it. But if you did know, and then my brain's like, oh, potatoes, yeah, obviously. But the brain that two seconds ago was like, oh my god, I could never choose, I don't know. Wild.

Valerie Friedlander: 41:01

Well, that's the protector part.

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 41:02

Yeah.

Valerie Friedlander: 41:02

It's a different part of yourself that's like, activating. It's like, I'm I gotta protect you from saying the wrong thing. And then, well, you, you just kind of like, okay, thanks for, you know, protection. And if you did,

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 41:14

And if you did, it's magical. It's so good. And then you voice a small act of self loyalty. And the operative word here is small, tiny. So in my world, I think, I think that baby steps are a ridiculous ask. That's like two and a half three inches. That's a too big ask.

Valerie Friedlander: 41:36

Yeah.

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 41:37

In my world, we take kitten steps, yeah, newborn, itty bitty baby, kitten steps, hypoallergenic. Don't worry about it. Like inchworm. Yeah, it's like, inchworm steps, like the teeniest, freaking tiniest, tinier. And I hear everyone setting their goals, and I'm like, tinier. So why do we do this, if we live with this profound fear of failure and not getting it right, and everything being terrible. What do we do? We say, You know what? I haven't exercised since the Presidential Fitness Test in the 80s. I'm run the New York City marathon tomorrow. That's tomorrow. Great. Yeah, I'm gonna, that's gonna be, that's gonna work out well for my hammies, right? Like we go from zero to hero, but we we don't get to where we want to go because we fall on our snout two steps in. So I encourage us to create self loyalty and self trust by making the wins inevitable. If you want to go to the gym, if you want to start exercising this this week, you're gonna consider what running shoes you might buy. That's it. That's it. So then when you win at that, you get a little dopamine, you get a little oxytocin. We get a little you get high on your own supply in the best way, and it'll motivate you towards doing the next thing that that's on your path to whatever it is you most want, but kitten step size. So in an example of emotional outsourcing, let's say you're at that PTA meeting and you were asked to make cupcakes again, and you got to make the gluten free and the dairy free, and the and the and the free. And your old habit is to go absolutely through gritted teeth. Sure, yeah, I can do that. Well, meanwhile, inside you're like, I would rather chew glass. Like, no thank you. So the baby step is to say no, thank you. Don't even try it. My kitten step. Let me get back to you. Then what's the tiniest thing? Don't try to say no to someone's face. Don't, don't do that. Don't do that, because then you're going to get feel guilty and you're going to fold like an origami swan. And then what was the point? What was the point? There was no point. Let me get back to you, right? Do the tiniest little thing. That's how you start becoming your own safe place. And then E in Brave is for encourage yourself like you would a best friend. And when I tell you that in this household and in my coaching world, we celebrate the tiniest things, and we do all day long, right? So, baby in our Where's Waldo game? Ooh, I noticed. I noticed, have a friend that you text, have a victories journal, right? And really cheer yourself on, Shine yourself up. Why not?

Valerie Friedlander: 44:30

Yeah.

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 44:31

Right, why not? And I hear the why not is because so many of us socialize as women. We're taught that that's selfish to be humble, right? I can hear all the Catholicism coming in, right? I can hear all the like, all many effect will tell a woman to be smaller and smaller and smaller. And I hear that. And I'll simply invite you to ask, Do I really want to live that way? Do I really want to live that. Way, is that what I want for my as far as we know, one human life? Or do I maybe want to do this differently? Huh? And then when your brain speaks out, oh, it's wrong and it's bad. Okay, who's it gonna hurt? But, like, really, make your brain answer it. Oh, well, I was just taught that's not an answer.

Valerie Friedlander: 45:23

Yeah.

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 45:24

Right. Push the rhetoric to its edges. Women should be Oh, okay, sure. Why?

Valerie Friedlander: 45:31

Yeah.

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 45:33

Right, and just see where you can get to. And most of my clients get to, oh, forget about it. I'd rather feel good about myself, because also then, if we're going to stay in the same sort of morality clause, you are kinder to customer service and to waitresses and to receptionists and to your own family. So if our central tenant is kindness, start with you. It ripples out. You know?

Valerie Friedlander: 45:56

Truly. Yeah, absolutely. I love that. That is...

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 46:00

Be brave.

Valerie Friedlander: 46:02

Be brave. I love, I love that breakdown. And I have a cheat sheet that I give to people that is like, things to say. Basically, you can, like, put it on your phone where it's just like, you know, let me get back to you. Basically, it's like, helping that art of the pause,

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 46:18

Yes.

Valerie Friedlander: 46:19

Like, where it's really hard we we feel like we have urgency, urgency. You got to respond right away. You got to do the thing right away and say, don't I even say, like, if you are super activated and you don't know what to do, I had to use bathroom.

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 46:31

Yes, I love the loo!

Valerie Friedlander: 46:33

Go to the bathroom. It's totally like, if you have nothing else, like you don't feel comfortable saying,"Let me get back to you." Or,"I'm not sure." "I gotta think about it." "Let me check my calendar." "Let me..." whatever.

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 46:46

Go to the bathroom. And then when you get to the bathroom, count your fingers. This is a super applicable one. So when our amygdala, the fear center, big emotion center in the brain and the reptile brain and the limbic system, is turned on, it's black or white. It's binary cat, that's a tabby cat, that's a village, gonna buy into other people's urgency. It'll become our emergency. You brilliantly, go to the loo once there. If you're too fast, you gotta show your body slow. If you're too slow, you gotta show your body fast, but gently so you're revving, you're racing, you're anxious. Oh my god. What did what did she say? That mean thing? Did I hear what there was, take your thumb and tap your first finger, your pointer finger, and slowly, like annoyingly slowly, say one. New York finger and say two. Ring finger and say three. Pinky and say four. And you're gonna come back 4321, but so slow that you want to, like, reach through your podcast app and strangle me. That's fine. I'm available for it. And then, if you're like, you know you're in conflict, and you kind of just check out. Wait what? Sorry. Were you yelling at me? I just I went into dorsal shutdown, and I froze, and I.. what? That. Which can happen in a boardroom or a PTA or anywhere, we're gonna tap our fingers a little faster and we're gonna go, 123432112344321, to start bringing a little adrenaline right? Gentle, gentle adrenaline right? To start bringing a little life force energy, a wee bit of chi, if you will, into the system, right? Bring that prana up. Put whatever word you want on it. I couldn't care less, but bring that life force energy... Yeah? To just rev you up. So those are that's

Valerie Friedlander: 48:55

Yeah. one of, like, the easiest things, and in my experience, Oh, that's brilliant. it's about us. Like a three year old can easily do that. The counting is challenging, but the slow tap, like, Okay, I hear you. You're really, really upset. Can we? Let's do finger taps first, and then they get so absorbed in it, yeah, that the tantrum. Sometimes it half melted. So that's a good tip for parents and caregivers too. Yeah, yeah, good luck with that. I love it. Yeah, it's a good one. It's fun, because it really works. I have a client who has her whole middle school room do

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 49:31

Talk about Co-regs. Yeah. it. So like, if someone gets upset in the room, she has them all stand and all of them tap together.

Valerie Friedlander: 49:45

Co-regulation is so key.

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 49:47

Can you imagine being an upset eight year old and you're not sent to the coroner or sent to the principal or sent to detention, but instead I'm gonna cry like 20 something other kids stand up and. Slowly count to support you. Oh, Valerie, I'm gonna cry. How tender is that?

Valerie Friedlander: 50:06

We need that. We need that so badly.

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 50:10

Yeah, but it starts with us. It starts at home.

Valerie Friedlander: 50:12

Yeah, there's so much. I have really enjoyed this conversation.

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 50:17

Me too. Me too.

Valerie Friedlander: 50:18

We hit on so many, so many things. I'm thrilled to read your book. Very, very exciting. Can't wait. And so soon.

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 50:25

So soon! Yeah, so soon. So it hits the shelf September 30. You can pre order now at my website, Beatrizalbina.com/book, we've got all the major booksellers up, so you take your choice. And for folks who don't know pre orders really, really matter, because it tells the publisher how many copies to literally print. So if you're I'm going to speak for both of us, someone who loves the library and is like libraries are the heart of democracy, it actually helps get the book into libraries, if it does better in pre order, because it helps the libraries to get bigger bulk orders. I just learned that yesterday, the bulk orders and so what better reason to pre order a book than to support your local library? That's pretty cool.

Valerie Friedlander: 51:10

Yeah, well, there will be a link in the show notes to your website and your Instagram.

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 51:16

Thank you.

Valerie Friedlander: 51:17

And bookshop.org? You have it on bookshop.org?

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 51:20

Of course.

Valerie Friedlander: 51:21

Okay, cool, because that's I stopped linking to Amazon. I only link to bookshop.org.

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 51:26

Yeah, yeah. Of course, of course, of course.

Valerie Friedlander: 51:27

So that'll be in the book rack on bookshop that I have for all the books that are recommended in this podcast. So definitely y'all go check it out. It is linked in the show notes. And thank you so much for joining me. And as we wrap up, I like to ask a couple questions. One is, what does it mean to you to be unlimited?

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 51:53

To live in interdependence instead of emotional outsourcing, so to live as an autonomous human who knows my own limits and boundaries in the best of ways, and who lives with mutuality and reciprocity with everyone in my world.

Valerie Friedlander: 52:08

Yeah, you know, as you said that though, thing that struck me to what you said earlier about stepping out of the idea of codependency as an identity, we often say I'm codependent. Do we ever say I'm a interdependent? Like, I never hear anybody say I'm an interdependent,

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 52:25

No, but let's do it, because that's an identity I can get with.

Valerie Friedlander: 52:28

It is an identity, but, like, we never say that. We say I'm independent or I am codependent, but we don't say I am an interdependent,

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 52:36

Okay, we used to not, but, yeah, we do

Valerie Friedlander: 52:39

Yeah, we do now. We do know. So when you now. want to tap into that unlimited feeling, what song do you listen to?

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 52:47

I would say, Gracias A La Vida - Mercedes Sosa or Fito Paez, anything by Fito Paez, Argentine rock, I'm going to go to my roots, because the stuff you like, you know.

Valerie Friedlander: 52:58

Yeah. The little kiddo stuff. Yeah. Fito Paez. Is there a particular song?

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 53:03

My God, everything. Oh, he did this tour last year where he played on his most popular album, from start to finish at Madison Square Garden. And I just sobbed, and I like, was looking around, and everyone in the audience was standing up, pumping our fists, which is like an embarrassing Argentine thing we do when we got excited and sobbing, men, women, children, all, every ages and gen... everyone was sobbing. God, we love our national rock.

Valerie Friedlander: 53:32

Yeah, there's a whole thing about, like, a whole album, right? That just is.... But for the playlist sake I can't put a whole album.

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 53:41

No. I mean, that'd be a bit much.

Valerie Friedlander: 53:43

But I will link to the whole album so that people can listen to it.

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 53:45

I do recommend it.

Valerie Friedlander: 53:46

So it'll be there too. So, y'all gotta go check out the show notes. I know I always say that, but like, really...

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 53:52

Well, you put effort into them. People should go check it out.

Valerie Friedlander: 53:54

I do, oh my gosh. Can we talk? We're not gonna talk about show notes.

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 53:54

Next time, next time, we'll do a whole episode about show notes.

Valerie Friedlander: 53:59

An episode about show notes...

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 54:02

Okay, great.

Valerie Friedlander: 54:03

Thank you so much for joining me today.

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 54:06

Thank you!

Valerie Friedlander: 54:06

It has been such a pleasure.

Beatriz Victoria Albina: 54:07

Truly.

Valerie Friedlander: 54:08

I hope you enjoyed listening to this episode as much as I did recording it. I really appreciate that you are here and just a reminder that if you have any insights that you'd like to share, any appreciations, any questions or any topics you would like me to engage on this podcast. There is a new link in the show notes to record a short voice memo to me. It's super easy. Click the link, a little thing pops up and you click on the microphone and you record a little message that goes to me. You can send it anonymously if you want, or you can put in your email if you would like a direct response from me. I love, love, love to hear from you. And if you are looking for support to engage any of these dynamics in your life, please reach out. I offer a free Expo. Inspiration call, and I am more than happy to chat with you no pressure. We find if it's a good fit to work together, what that might look like that would be a best fit for what you're looking for, your goals, your finances, all the fun stuff, and then we go from there. So thank you again, so much for listening. Go check out Bea's book, and I will talk to you all next time.