Living Life With Integrity with F. John Potter

Living a life of integrity means showing up whole and in alignment with your values, no matter what life throws your way. It can be especially difficult to stay centered in who you want to be during periods of life that feel uncertain and you’re stepping into the unknown, yet that is when being true to yourself matters most. Having a moral compass supports resilience, clarity, and strength to take the next indicated step forward as you navigate the unpredictability of life. It creates not only stability in uncertainty but also builds a lasting legacy.

In this episode of Mindset Unlimited, I invited F. John Potter to join me in a conversation about what supports living life with integrity and navigating unexpected career changes.
 

•  Some of what we talk about in this episode includes: 
• Being open to the unexpected
• Decision-making with the support of friends
• Courage and defining enough
• Navigating unemployment
• The accumulation of skills

(This is a replay episode with a new intro and re-added content around the 20 minute mark.) 

LINKS FROM THIS EPISODE:

Frank John Potter’s Obituary

John’s Ignite Talk 

Leaning Into a Mid-Life Career Change 

Tao Te Ching

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This podcast was produced by Valerie Friedlander Coaching

Proud member of the Feminist Podcasters Collective 

Transcript

Valerie Friedlander: 0:06

Hello, my friends and welcome to a replay episode of Mindset unlimited. Mindset tips, tools and inspiration for women in a time of change. I'm your host. Valerie Friedlander, ICF certified coach, sociologist, intersectional feminist artist, mom and nerd, and today we are talking about living life with integrity. This is a replay of an episode from season three entitled resilience through unexpected career shifts. This episode is particularly special to me because it is an interview that I did with my father, Frank John Potter, who passed away on October 17 of this year. I decided to replay this episode, partly in memory of him and his recent passing, and also because I was going through it to help me write his obituary, and going through all of the messages that I have received from people whose lives he touched, and something really stood out to me as I was reviewing all of this, and it was how much he lived his Life with integrity. I've talked about integrity before and briefly, what it means is really wholeness. It is like an integer like it is a whole ness of being. And that's how he showed up. I found a little slip of paper in his wallet as I was going through all of the things as one does, and the paper said, do all aspects of your life bear the same witness? And I think his did, and I think now more than ever, it's a really helpful example. I know it is for me of thinking about how I show up with everything going on, it's so easy to get caught up in awful things and then feel like, well, I want to not lose sight of the happy things, of the joyful things, and how all of that goes together in a whole experience of life and how I show up true to myself and the person that I want to be, and it's challenging. So one of the tools that I recommend for people when we're working together is we reflect on what has been available, what tools have supported, What things have you done that are similar to the thing you're trying to do, that you've never done before? Because when we can tap into what's possible, what we've accessed, even if it's not exactly the same, or the context is different, it feels more accessible. And that's one of the main reasons I interviewed my dad in the first place was to provide that example of someone who has navigated career shifts that were often not chosen, and sometimes when we don't have an experience that we can tap into hearing other people's experience is a way to go, Okay, if they've done it. How might this be possible for me too, and it is a tool that is often used in 12 step rooms. So it makes sense that this would be one that would resonate here. I share all of this not to say that my dad was by any means a perfect person. There were plenty of things that were imperfect, and I've shared very transparently about that in other interviews, as well as on this podcast, as we were chatting, and as I have reflected in his obituary in a variety of other places, he has helped remind me of the difference that can be made in small, meaningful ways by a perfectly, imperfect person who is dedicated to always learning, growing and being of service. So I'll share a little bit of his bio, which I shared in the intro to the last episode. But I do a new intro and I do a replay, so this is what you get this time. And I also want to let you all know that if you did listen to the original episode, and you don't want to re listen to the entire thing. I do include about at the 20 minute mark some new content that I had cut out for time reasons. And it's about a toolbox. My dad had some really brilliant insights, and I'm very great. Grateful that I thought to snip it out in case I ever wanted to use it for something, and here we are. So my dad, Frank John Potter, was a semi retired chemist, chemical engineer and Computer Support Engineer, often accused of telling you how to build a watch. If you ask him what time it is, he protests that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, so imagine what could be done with a great deal of it. Flunking out of Clarkson College of Technology led to three years of military service, which included a tour in Vietnam, where his grasp of radar repair was put to use fixing movie projectors. Afterwards, he married his college sweetheart, then attended a community college in New York where he bought his first copy of the Tao teaching in a bookstore. He had a Bachelor of Science in chemistry from Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, a Master of Science in chemistry and a PhD in Chemical Engineering from Vanderbilt University. During his doctoral program and while raising two daughters, John found 12 step recovery. Over his career, he has held a variety of jobs, including chemical engineer, adjunct professor, consulting engineer, video editor, technical writer, and finally, worked a 15 year stint at a small company specializing in digital signage, where he wore too many hats to count. At age 70, he found a passion for sharpening knives and semi retired into entrepreneurship as the owner of Nashville knife sharpening during it all, he kept drawing, studying Taoist and other Chinese philosophy and generally amusing himself and others with doodles and artistic witticisms. Later, my dad and mom moved to Massachusetts to be closer to family, where my dad quickly became an integral part of the community, serving as board chair in the retirement community they were part of and continuing his daily smiles, which were a ministry of humor and encouragement that he began during the covid 19 pandemic. He made friends everywhere he went, he had a generous heart, and he was a friend to those in need, in need of a laugh, compassion, advice, information, a muffin, a ride or some change. He always was more than happy to help, and often became the go to guy for many approaching each project with enthusiasm and detailed care, a master of analogies, his advice typically came through a thoughtfully crafted story or comparison, and he never judged, well, maybe sometimes, but he never held on to it. He'd say, Here's my advice, but do what you want. I know you will anyway. My dad lived a life marked by resilience and service. While never financially successful, he was immensely successful in all the ways that really matter in being human. He leaves behind a legacy of wit and wisdom and the reminder found in this podcast episode that sometimes when things seem to be falling apart, they're actually falling into place. Some of what we talk about in this episode includes being open to the unexpected decision making with the support of friends courage and defining enough navigating unemployment and the accumulation of skills and putting them to use. I hope that you enjoy this episode and that you find it as supportive as I have found my dad over the many years that I was blessed to have him in my life, and now, without further ado, let's get started. Welcome dad. I'm so excited to have you on my podcast. You did a Ignite talk a few years back, and it was about punctuated equilibrium, essentially like life journey stuff, and since you did that, I was thinking, Gosh, it'd be great to have you on to expound upon some of those things, because it's a very short talk. It's only like five minutes, and especially because I've had a number of clients recently talking about what one might call a midlife career crisis, as it were. And I thought about your Ignite talk, and thought about punctuated equilibrium, and it seemed like a really appropriate time to invite you to come share a little bit about that and what that's looked like. Because I think while everybody's journey looks differently, there's benefit in the reflective piece that we don't get until we get later on in life, and we can look back and go, Oh, and the process of living it is a little bit different. So normally, I ask people to share a little bit about themselves, but. Because a lot of this interview is basically asking you to share about yourself, I would love to start with just asking you to share a little bit about what is punctuated equilibrium.

F. John Potter: 10:11

Punctuated equilibrium is a concept used in evolution you have periods during which things are pretty much steady, you get small changes. Plants will start growing across a region, and then the animals will follow the plants. Certain animals will discover that they can eat this new food. At some point, a potentially cataclysmic event will occur, and that steady state of events will be totally disrupted. After the disruption, a new equilibrium is found, and things go along for a long time at that new equilibrium, and then another event will happen, and once again, things are thrown into an uproar, and when everything settles down, a new steady state equilibrium is found. So that sounds all very technical. Think of it in terms of about 65 million years ago, we had dinosaurs roaming the earth, and then an asteroid hit the Earth, a boom, the sky darkened for probably a number of years of all the stuff thrown up into the atmosphere, and the dinosaurs died off, and mammals took over. And this kind of event, there have been mass extinctions multiple times in the last four and a half billion years, which is a really big number. I can't get my mind around how big it is, but I kind of get the idea, yeah, stuff happens.

Valerie Friedlander: 12:16

I get a lot of comments about my use of analogies and being a master of analogies. And I have to say, a lot of this is due to my dad, because of his use of analogies. Would you describe how you utilized this as an analogy in your life?

F. John Potter: 12:33

So in preparation for this talk, which I know is going to happen, I did a little math and counted up, I think, nine separate events in my life that would qualify as what might have seemed like a cataclysmic event at the time, but turned out not so bad, at least in retrospect. I went to college, got degree in chemistry, and then I was a chemist for a while, and a company hired me to be an engineer, and I had to move to Massachusetts. Now, not all events are like totally destructive, like the extinction of the dinosaurs, but I moved to Massachusetts. Valerie was raised in Massachusetts, although she was born in Nashville, and I have this great job. It's sending me around the country and once to Canada to do engineering stuff. And then the company got bought and moved to Iowa, but I wasn't moved to Iowa, so I am now out of work. Now, what do I do? So I found a job as a chemist again, and then that job ran into financial difficulties, and so I was let go, and I'll mention this just before I was let go. I found out that my wife was pregnant again with Valerie's sister, as it turns out, so I was all excited. And I go in to work and I'm ready to tell people, and they say, Oh, by the way, we have to let you go because We can't pay you anymore. So that was a little more cataclysmic. I couldn't find a new job within an hour's drive of where we live. My approach at that time was to put together what I call a clearness committee, a group of friends who were able to ask me questions about, what do you want to do, what are you good at? What are you willing to give up to get something else, kind of thing? And I ended up coming back to Tennessee at that time. I've been here ever since. And I went back to. College, so a really major change, and all that took about nine months, went back to college, got a PhD in chemical engineering, and I had a job that used chemical engineering type stuff. And then that guy made some really bad business decisions. He was a consultant, and all his clients said, we are never hiring you again. So I was let go again. And so I looked at, gee, what have I learned how to do during this job? I learned how to do video editing as part of this chemical engineering data analysis stuff. So I had some time as my own video editor. I found a job at a local college as kind of a part time teaching position, and I kept putting out resumes. I had printouts with me all the time. Wherever I went, I'd have one in an envelope ready to end anybody you know. My father used to say that when one door closes, another door opens. He was great philosopher, parable, cabinet maker.

Valerie Friedlander: 16:26

I could use that. I might, I might just. I really appreciate that you mentioned the clearness committee. I'm assuming that it was a Quaker clearness committee. It was, but it would have to be Quaker. I think it's a really valuable tool that in this over individualized society, we think, Oh, I just have to figure this out on my own, and having other people, I would say, you know, either a trained professional, but also it could be a group of friends, it could be a group of people who are willing to just ask you questions and not just give their input and not tell you, Well, I think you should do this, but actually ask you questions like you just described, and help you discern for yourself, as we've often talked about, like People love to give advice. So having people that are intentionally coming together to support you, finding what works for you, at least for now, is a really useful tool, and so I appreciate that you brought that up.

F. John Potter: 17:36

I will mention that during a clearness committee, it is often helpful to have periods of silence. One or two minutes doesn't have to be a half hour of deep meditation, especially if things are getting excited, which occasionally happens. So I think we all need to sit quietly for a moment.

Valerie Friedlander: 18:01

That's really hard for a lot of people. It's interesting growing up in the Quaker tradition, which is sitting in silence for worship, sort of like meditation. It was surprising to me how many people really get uncomfortable sitting in silence, and how much of a practice it is. It really is about cultivating a practice. All right. So the period that you were just talking about of when you were out of work and you were looking for work, I was probably in middle school.

F. John Potter: 18:30

You might have been going to East Magna at that time.

Valerie Friedlander: 18:34

That would explain why you were able to drive me. Yes, yeah, I actually didn't realize that you were doing video editing at that time, so that, I mean, I remember that period, and I remember that it was really stressful.

F. John Potter: 18:48

I'd say I was doing video editing. I was also cutting hedges in the summer. You know, I looked at, what can I do, and then I tried to monetize it, I guess not my favorite stuff, but necessity was the mother of invention. Then I was doing this teaching at a local college, and I applied for a I got a full time job teaching chemistry. And then I got a call to come to Transcender. This is one of the resumes that I had dropped off. Well, most colleges provide some kind of employment help service. And this was dropped off there. The guy who owned this company, came in to Vanderbilt, saw my resume, had me come out for an interview. I thought it was the worst interview I ever had. I wasn't prepared for the quote, unquote, standard interview questions. Where do you think you'll be in five years? Kind of thing. And the day that the college sent me the thank you for applying, but we're not going to hire you to be a professor. I also got the we want to offer you a job. It was synchronicity at work. So that's when I started working at Transcender as a technical editor. All through my life, I've had I go to schooling, I learned how to do something, and have a piece of paper that says I can do it, and I learn other skills, and then my next round is going to use some of those new skills, maybe almost exclusively, like I didn't do any chemistry at Transcender, and then Transcender was bought and moved to Atlanta, and so now I'm out of work again. I did some more video editing at that time, and I was networking with people I knew, one of whom said, Oh, you need to go talk to this guy that owns this computer company. Well, while I was at Transcender, I got all these Microsoft certifications as part of my job. Transcender made test preparation software for people who wanted to pass Microsoft certification tests. So I had to go take the tests to learn what the questions were like, so I could write new questions. And I ended up getting certified. So I'm out of Transcender. My friend says, go talk to this computer guy. I go talk to him. He says, Well, I really don't need any help right now, but we did have a tech support person leave recently, so I could give you a try. And the kind of give you a try turned into a almost 20 year job. That is what I retired from. And during the end of that job, my daughter in law received a very nice Japanese knife that she was afraid to use because she did not sharpen it or take care of it. And I said, Oh, I'll look into that. I'll figure that out for you. And that's when I got into knife sharpening just as well. Let me help out Kristen, and I'll sharpen her knife, and I'll sharpen my knives. Now, my grandfather tried to teach me how to sharpen knives using a carborundum Whetstone, and I was never very good at it. I kept trying, but I couldn't really get knives real sharp. Well, now I'm committed to learning how to sharpen a Japanese knife, and thank goodness for YouTube. I became YouTube knowledgeable. YouTube university can be very helpful. You have to be choosy, but there's some really good stuff out there, and I learned how to sharpen knives on Japanese whetstones. So that's what I do now. So anyway, I I have this progression that I can look back and say, well, it makes total sense. But at the time, it was like, oh my god, this is catastrophic. Or what am I going to do now? And I would look over my tool set. Now, we all start with a tool set, and we all get different tools, and some of them can turn into a career, and I found something a while ago that occasionally occurs to me. Sometimes when things seem to be falling apart, they're actually falling into place.

Valerie Friedlander: 23:54

It's interesting that you use the tool set analogy, because that's one of the things that I'll talk about that analogy of when all you have is a hammer. Everything in life is a nail. Growing up with all of the stuff that you and mom were navigating, I had a toolbox that I picked up watching the two of you do work, but I had really only learned or internalized the use of a hammer. So I used all the tools, the wrench, the screwdriver, everything was used like a hammer. And it was only until I did my own work that I started to actually learn how to use the tools that I had, and, of course, accumulate new ones. And interestingly enough, you mentioned you get these tools over time, and you don't necessarily know how they're going to be used. A lot of that has played into what I do now.

F. John Potter: 24:46

I'm glad you mentioned analogies, because I have found it helpful to take when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Turn it around, when all you have is a nail. Everything looks like a hammer. I have used screwdrivers and wrenches and two by fours and rocks as hammers. A hammer works really well as a hammer. These other things, not so well. So then I have to evaluate, what do I need right here? Screwdrivers. I fix people's knives where they have snapped off the tip because they used it as a screwdriver or a pry bar, and knives don't do that very well.

Valerie Friedlander: 25:36

Usually I reflect on in watching you and mom go through a lot of changes and shifts in careers, and following these twists and turns after events and losses and changes and all of that that it's like, well, it's more about who do I want to be, not what do I want to be? As though my job is a definition of me, but there's a common question of, what are you going to be when you grow up? I actually don't like it as a question, but I'm curious, when you were a kid, what did you want to be when you grew up?

F. John Potter: 26:13

I really honestly do not remember ever wanting to be something when I grew up as a child, and I was asked that question. I first went to college as a physics major, not because I wanted to be a physicist and study elementary particles or anything like that, but just because I was pretty good at the math. Now, I got to college and found out I was terrible at calculus. That came later, but at the time, I did not do well in college. I actually made it through three semesters and out the best thing I got out of going to college was that I fell in love with this lovely coed a local state school, and our marriage has lasted. We both acknowledge that we are not the people we were when we got married. Relationships require their own nurturing, and sometimes you find out that this is probably not the right person, maybe a bad decision, that's okay. That was not my case, but I did learn that, you know, Tang, I love you. You're perfect. Now change. Well, change is going to happen, whether or not I want it to happen, whether or not someone else wants it to happen. Okay, I mentioned that I flunked out of college at the time. It was 1968 Vietnam. War had offensive. I got my draft notice, I enlisted in the Army, and when I got out of the army, I went back to college. And you're asking, you know, what do you want to be when you grow up? Well, I didn't know, so I went to a community college because they would take me Fourier school said your grades were so bad previously that we'd not entrusted so I went to a community college, and I took just a spectrum of coursework, Psychology, English, chemistry, calculus, painting. I really, really liked the painting class. My house today still has some of those paintings on the wall, but I was faced at some point with the choice, do I want to be a fat chemist or a starving artist? And as much as I liked painting, I didn't think I was as good as other people that I could see. Now, granted, everything has a learning curve, but chemistry, the learning curve was short and fast for me, I could get a job as a chemist and probably do well. Now it turned out the chemist job that I envisioned in school never happened.

Valerie Friedlander: 29:30

I think it's interesting to notice how so often we imagine something is going to look a particular way, but when we actually do it, it does not look at all like that. It's kind of one of the reasons why I've always disliked that question, where do you see yourself in five years? Because I'm too aware of how life changes. I think having a direction can be helpful, but life is too amorphous. I've preferred as I've frequently talked about the term cottywample, which. Is British slang for walking intentionally toward an unknown destination, because that's what I have power over. Is how I move in the world. I don't necessarily know what something's going to look like once I get there.

F. John Potter: 30:14

When we explore the unknown, by definition, we don't know what we will find. I had several job interviews that I thought went really, really well back when I thought, well, I'm going to become a chemist, and I will retire from a chemistry job with a major corporation with, you know, pension plan. And this predates for one case and IRAs, and none of that happened, but it's been kind of a fun and interesting journey, and I learned at some point along the line to keep my gratitude up and my expectations down.

Valerie Friedlander: 31:03

One of the things you talked about in your Ignite session was developing, or finding a moral compass. And one of the things I've talked to clients, even recently was about establishing a container for how you show up in the world, something to touch base on, because it's really easy to get pulled around and oh, well, this is what I should do. My parents told me I should be this, or my college advisor suggested this, or a good friend said this, or whatever. And so I'm curious about how having a moral compass has played into your navigation of all of these punctuated equilibrium experiences.

F. John Potter: 31:45

As far as moral compass, I love the compass analogy, because if you have a real compass, magnetic compass, and you bring a magnet near the compass, the compass will suddenly shift over to point at the magnet and take the magnet away, and the compass goes back to magnetic north. If you're looking for work and somebody offers you a whole bunch of money, even if the job is not very attractive, your compass can suddenly point toward the money, having a certain amount of money for job is important, but I wouldn't take some jobs just because I'd be uncomfortable with the work. I would make a terrible telemarketer, because I don't like calling people up and telling them what they need to do, even though, in my heart, I know it's probably not the best thing for them.

Valerie Friedlander: 32:43

I think it's helpful as a reflection money in the way that we live in the world, right now, in our society, currently, in our economy, currently, we need to make money. And so it's very understandable that that would be pulled like, I need to make a living, I need to support my family, I need to do those things. And so having that awareness of, and I just talked about this recently, it's a factor. Money is a factor. We can't, like, discount it, because when we go, oh, it's not a factor, that compass gets pulled towards the magnet, and we're like, no, no, no, that's not what's happening, but it is. And when we can recognize what has that attractiveness, what has that Sway on us, then we can acknowledge it and engage it with intention, rather than just being like, that's not what's happening and or pull ourselves in the completely opposite direction, in a way that is actually counter to what our needs are, because we're discounting them and we're not acknowledging them.

F. John Potter: 33:48

One way of finding a moral compass is to find some religion, or, in my case, philosophy that fits the Dante Chang has a statement. He who knows he has enough is rich. In other words, if you have enough and you know it, then you have enough.

Valerie Friedlander: 34:13

Yeah, that's one of the things I often been looking at, is defining enough because we're fed this idea that we don't have enough constantly. There's this just general sense, and sometimes we don't sometimes we don't have enough. But if you don't know what enough is, you won't know when you have it, and you will have a harder time figuring out how to get it. So when you know what that looks like, then you can make more clear choices. And I think about, like, just the odd jobs, like, what you say yes to for work, you know, may very well have to do with like, well, what is enough, and is this the place that I can get it from? And it's not just enough money, but it's enough fulfillment, it's enough support, it's enough. Flexibility. It's a not you know, like, what does that actually look like? If you can define it? One thing that I wanted to ask you about in doing this Ignite session, which I will have a link to in the show notes. I know it took a lot of courage to do that talk, and it was way outside of your comfort zone, and a lot of times people want to do things, but they're scared, and they know they need to implement courage. You didn't have to do the talk, and yet you did anyway. And I'm curious what motivated you and what helped you actually show up to that.

F. John Potter: 35:41

All right, a good part of it was I was asked I did not think, gee, I'd really like do a talk. Wonder where I could do it. No, my daughter in law was working for the organization at the time, and her boss went to her and said, We need someone who's done like a major career change, maybe after retirement. Do you know anybody like that? So part of it was to support her, but I was told, gee, John, you don't have to do this, but it gave me an opportunity to step outside of my comfort zone. Now, I am not a person who deliberately steps out of his comfort zone just to do that. I don't ever plan to go bungee jumping. I hope I never have to jump out of an airplane, a perfectly safe airplane with a parachute on my back. But I was able to be of support, and I was hoping, you know, who knows? Maybe it'll get her a promotion. It didn't, but I didn't know that, and it gave me a chance to talk about myself, not that I want to get up on podia and talk about myself all the time. And it was a bit of a challenge, a personal challenge. You got five minutes, you got 20 slides. You got 15 seconds per slide, and the slide is going to change whether or not you're ready. If anybody wants to find that talk, it is on YouTube.

Valerie Friedlander: 37:30

Oh, I plan on linking it in the show notes

F. John Potter: 37:32

What about mine, because I edited it, because I can video edit.

Valerie Friedlander: 37:38

Because you can do that,

F. John Potter: 37:39

Because I can do it, and at the end of it, I have an outtake. The presentation was done twice. There was a morning and an afternoon repeat. In the morning, I forgot my lines. It was described as you're doing a tango with your slides, and the slides will keep dancing even if you fall down. So in the morning session, I fell down, and I had a pretty good recovery, I guess. And then during lunch, I worked really hard on, what did I forget? Where did I screw up? And the afternoon one is the one that's in the video, and it came off pretty good. I think.

Valerie Friedlander: 38:30

One of the last things that I asked people on this podcast when I do an interview is, what does it mean to you to be unlimited? So I would love for you to answer that question.

F. John Potter: 38:43

Yeah, I saw where you asked that. Well, maybe it's like Buzz Lightyear to infinity and beyond. I think for me, it's been more and this goes back into my childhood where it didn't work to my benefit, that I was more aware of my limitations. What does it mean to be unlimited? I'm not sure I can agree with that question.

Valerie Friedlander: 39:16

Well, I've had people kind of reframe it of like, I don't think I am, and I don't think we should be, and I think this about that idea of unlimitedness. I mean, the podcast is called unlimited mostly because of how much we allow other people to limit us. Because I think we do need to be limited. We need to create a container for ourselves, but we need to recognize, you know, mom would always say the realm of all possibilities, and that's kind of overwhelming, and it never really worked for me. But I think it's helpful to know that there is a realm of all possibilities. I'm just choosing to create my own space in that, not just to be like everywhere all the things.

F. John Potter: 39:59

You know, if you're in the middle of the ocean, all you see is water all around you, and it looks totally unlimited forever, but if you start swimming, eventually you come to land. I'm more focused on what have I allowed myself to be limited by? And I don't have the ability to run anymore. I used to love to jog. Jogging was my passion, because it's, it's an individual activity. I am not competing against anyone, I except myself. And even there, I'm not really competing, because some days I know I'm going to be able to go longer, faster and other than other days, but I can't run anymore because I broke a bone in my foot. And if I walk, no problem. If I run, where that break happened, my foot starts saying, you don't want to do this. Did you hear me? You don't want to do this. So to be unlimited is to be aware of what limitations I have, which ones are permanent, which ones will change over time, and which ones have I imposed on myself? So to be unlimited is for me being aware of my limitations. I'm almost 75, years old. There are things that I can't do anymore, but I have ways around them. Or I mean, I don't have diabetes, but a diabetic is not likely to go, ooh, birthday cake. Give me two pieces. They have limitations. Sometimes those limitations are because of past choices. Sometimes they're genetic. I mean, they could be religious. If you're an Orthodox Jew, you probably won't eat bacon no matter how good it smells when it's cooking. It's a limit, yeah, deliberate, intentional. Are my limits intentional?

Valerie Friedlander: 42:14

And when you want to feel that unlimited feeling, that expansive feeling, if you will, what song would you choose to listen to?

F. John Potter: 42:26

Well, I'm glad you asked that question. Purple Haze by Jimi Hendrix.

Valerie Friedlander: 42:32

Awesome. I will add that to the Spotify playlist.

F. John Potter: 42:39

Also Pink Floyd the wall, the whole album. Now you've got to put the whole album on the playlist.

Valerie Friedlander: 42:48

So that's an interesting choice. What about that makes you feel unlimited?

F. John Potter: 42:53

Well, my older daughter and I used to spend a lot of time in the car together, going to voice lessons and getting driven to school and picked up, and I had that on a cassette tape. This goes back a few years. The totos were alone in the car together. That cassette tape was popped in, and wherever it did stop playing, it would start playing again and again and again and again and again.

Valerie Friedlander: 43:26

So it was played unlimitedly.

F. John Potter: 43:29

It was played unlimited times over a number of years. Yep, and that is one of my favorite driving music, not with my wife. It's not her music, but it's our music. She likes it, but she wouldn't want to listen to it over and over and over, whereas my older daughter and I could, I'm sure you and I could too.

Valerie Friedlander: 43:57

Yeah, probably given that we're one of the same person.

F. John Potter: 44:01

Well, yeah, at the time.

Valerie Friedlander: 44:03

I mean, it's true. Well. Thank you dad for joining me for this conversation. I've really enjoyed it, and I look forward to sharing it.

F. John Potter: 44:16

Very good.

Valerie Friedlander: 44:17

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