In this episode I chat with Yadim Medore one of the God fathers of strategic branding within the nutraceutical and functional food and beverages spaces. Our discussion will be around the topic of The ROI of Trust Transparency and what that should mean to brands today.
He and his company Pure Branding have assisted brands such as Gaia Herbs, Standard Process, Reserveage, and more generate amazing results oriented, meaningful, and highly targeted strategic brand support.
In this episode I chat with Yadim Medore one of the God fathers of strategic branding within the nutraceutical and functional food and beverages spaces. Our discussion will be around the topic of The ROI of Trust Transparency and what that should mean to brands today.
He and his company Pure Branding have assisted brands such as Gaia Herbs, Standard Process, Reserveage, and more generate amazing results oriented, meaningful, and highly targeted strategic brand support.
You are listening to the ingredients for success podcast where you can consume dietary supplement industry best practices, trends, recent news and other insights provided through interviews and discussions with members of the stratum team and seasoned industry.
Speaker 2:Zach,
Speaker 1:welcome back to the ingredients for success podcast. I made your rice and today we have you deem the door. He's the founder and CEO of pure branding. Um, and we're going to be discussing in this the Roi of transparency and several other things with your team today. So you deem welcome to the podcast. I, Andrew, thanks very much. Good to be here with you. Yeah, I'm glad you came. I'm glad you came on. Um, you couldn't come here, but you came onto the show, um, through Skype. I appreciate you joining. MMM. Yeah. So, uh, let's, uh, let's get this thing started. I want to first say that we've, we, we met, so I want to take us back a couple years now, almost a couple of years maybe. We first met at the NBJ summit, I think one of those summits. It was the CRN conference. That's right. It was this, was that your first industry conference? That was, that was my first, yeah, that's it. That's exactly, I would think I was in the industry for a couple of months at that point. Yeah, I remember that well. Yeah. So I reached out you dean was gracious enough to respond to a linkedin message. I saw, I went and I looked at who is going to be speaking and I thought, hey, pure branding. I came from the marketing world, branding, blah, blah, blah. I thought, okay, this is a guy I need to connect with. He seems very smart. Looks like he has it all together. I need to get to know him because I knew in literally you're the first person in the industry that I had met, so, oh, I hope you bonded me with me. Like a baby bird bonds with their mother. I did. I feel like I have now. You may regret it at this point, but, well, I mean, I think what's been amazing is house and Panico, you know, we are, we kind of, um, you know, speak the same language, finish each other's sentences. Yeah. We already do that. That's pretty, yeah, it's weird. But we do that. So anyway. Um, yeah, I think it's, it's been great. It's been great. Got To know him a little bit about his son and some stuff. There's some familiar stuff there. He's doing an APP and I've gotten to talk to him about that cause the other world I live in with websites and apps and that's been fun and he's a great kid and mmm, you should be proud of him too. Thank you. Yeah. And you've been a huge help. This is my son Elijah, who has just launched a, our new fitness weightlifting app on the Ios App store called iron doing well. I saw a, there's a, there's quite a few downloads. I went and I spied on him the other day. Yeah. They're hoping to get picked up a app of the week and um, once they do, I think that'll be a breakthrough for them. Their, their reviews are amazing. I mean, they're getting people, sending them, you know, like five page emails with all the things they love and suggestions for the next version. And just incredibly, I can't believe how engaged his audiences. Yeah, no, that's, no, that is amazing. Um, great to get that feedback, uh, in our business too. Right. So it was great to get feedback, figure out where you're screwing up, where you're doing, where you're doing all right, what you can fix. Um, anyway, so, um, yeah, so you demon, I do go back just a little ways. Um, and so, um, I wanted to get him on here. He's been, um, talking about transparency. I think you might've been talking about some of the stuff leading up to this when I first met you there. Um, I think you were talking on a similar topic. Yeah, we've been talking about transparency for years before anybody really was talking about transparency. So it's, it's been a longstanding topic of, of both the passion interest, um, and a real value for, for the work we do and our clients. Yes. And it, uh, more and more, more and more important. Um, I mean all the time. Um, and with new regulations and rules all the time and who knows where it's going to go. There's some, there's some leaders of the pack when it comes to brands and ensuring that their transparency from, what do they say from, from uh, from soil, the oil from, you know, farm to table type, that whole thing. Uh, supply chain transparency and uh, ingredient transparency. And it's, it's huge. Consumers want to know what the, what the world they're consuming. Um, so anyway, uh, yeah, so a couple of questions to, to kind of just start off, start us off here. Um, the, uh, most exciting brand you've seen in a while within the natural supplement space. Something that just sticks out and it can't be one of our clients. I mean, I'm not saying it can't be, if you really think it is a, you know what I'm, I'm all about it. If it's one of your clients and you think it is, let's do it. I'm, I'm incredibly excited about, um, our, our client persona on, they started as vitamin packs, um, about a year ago and we helped rebrand them in an hour on the market as Persona. And they are meeting that intersection of, um, a digitally native brand and personalization
Speaker 3:and just doing a really incredible job, um, with great. Really, it's, it's, it's really, uh, incredible service, right?
Speaker 1:They're offering more than a product. Um, people fill out a short, uh, health
Speaker 3:intake questionnaire. Um, there's an algorithm that keeps getting refined and updated with the latest science and it spits out there recommended nutritional program. There's access to, um, nutritionists on staff at any time. Um, it's really, uh, you know, to me it's, this is where the future is going.
Speaker 1:I couldn't agree more and I knew you're going to say that. So, um, we do finish each other's sentences and I feel like I, I knew what you were going to say. I too, I've checked'em out, you know. Um, I think you mentioned them in one of our last conversations and I went and checked him out and yeah, a great job with their branding. Um, great, great job with their messaging. And then I feel like a, you all help them a great deal with that and uh, yeah, everything they're doing is, I, I've, I feel 100% cotton, uh, confident it's the future as well. So. MMM. Okay. Next question I'm going to ask is most exciting brand. Okay. And yes, it's okay. It can be a customer, it can be a customer of yours, most exciting brand in the food and the, the functional food and beverage category. Oh, that's a tough one. You should have prepped me for this one and I would have thought a little, um, I know, but I'd like to do, you know, and prepped and you, you're a lot more entertaining unscripted dean, just kid. So do I have a specific brand? It can be a couple. I mean if you don't want to, I mean it can be a couple. Maybe it's just instead of a brand, you know what, let's go category within functional food and beverage.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well we're working in the space, so I'm, you know, I would immediately go to the CBD category, which is obviously hitting both, but both the, yeah. Amen. Although it's not legally a dietary supplement yet. Right. And the functional food and beverage space, so, you know, just the, the wild west of CBD right now is, is, is, is staggering, but it's, it's a ingredient to be reckoned with. And I think the next, you know, the next evolution of the space as nascent as it is, is, is really starting to define brand. You know, it kind of started as a commodity space. Really. People are just looking for the ingredient that can't get enough of the ingredient. They'll buy anything that says CBD on it. Now brands are going to start to kind of form out of the quagmire.
Speaker 1:MMM.
Speaker 3:Right. Yeah. And, and, and, and
Speaker 1:that's exciting to see that starting to happen. Yes. Yeah. It is a, it's exciting. It's an exciting category. Um, yeah, it hit everything by storm, you know, a couple of years ago, a year. It just keeps, it just keeps hitting things hard every, everywhere we go. Um, all the events and some it's trade shows. Um, you know, you didn't ask me my opinion on either one of these questions, so that's cool. I'm just going to interject, uh, in my opinion. Um, Andrew, what do you think is the most, oh, well I'm glad you asked you dean. Thanks. Um, I dunno man. I tell you what, I'm going to have to go customer on this too. And the only reason I do this, and this is not a shameless plug, I'm just, I have been, and I know, you know, when you're in the industry, uh, I feel like you, you, I don't know you to be a responsible steward of the industry. You should probably adhere to practices we preach, right? So I feel they, so like the whole 30 whole eating all that kind of led me to, um, just a lot cleaner, uh, eating habits and, and, and uh, uh, more healthy fitness related lifestyle. And, uh, so I think, uh, the Vegan and the think like beyond meats and, um, and what is at the impossible. And there's a bunch of some of those, those functional, some of those foods out there that I think are pretty interesting, especially now they're going mainstream. Um, do you hear a bunch of noise in the background right now or is that just me? I'm hearing a little hiss coming out of your, out of my speaker from you. Oh, you know what it is? Well, I'm going to have to apologize to the audience. My computer's like, I feel like it's overheating on me right now. Oh, that's what it is. I was like, why in the world? It sounds like a airplane. You're going to cut this out though. Yeah. I'm going to just leave her run an art normally running. Oh yeah, I'm leaving. I'm leaving it. It's real. Right. A keeping it real and keeping it real, man. You're a shotty producer. Know it's either laziness or just keeping it real. Right. Um, anyway. Uh, okay. One last one. We'll get to it. The biggest lesson you deem you've learned in business to date. Wow. That is a wide open question. Wide Open man. Just like something that's hitting at you, right? I mean hitting home right now or something. You do what you love. Do Love. I love this industry. And so, um,
Speaker 3:you know, I can't imagine doing what I do for any other industry. So, um, you know, I was, I was raised to, you know, with this idea of um, you know, do what you love and the money will follow. And I hold that to be very true. Okay.
Speaker 1:Dang. I would concur man. Does I, I, I say that all the time. I feel it. I believe it. Like you ha man, if you don't love what you do, go find something else to do. Cause life is, you know, yeah. About so much more. Right.
Speaker 3:Um, so I have a colleague who was a consultant and he, he always says attitude is bs. He's like, that is such a luxury of living in a first world country. It's like to say you have to love your career. You know, in most places, you know, you just gotta, you know, go do your labor so you can put food on the table. And you know, you're lucky if you have a hobby that you enjoy on the side. And we haven't really lucky to be able to say, you know, you don't have to love your work.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Grateful we live in a culture here, um, where we can choose a vocation that we love versus just have to put food on the table. Yeah,
Speaker 1:I totally agree. And I, I don't, I would have to not, I would have to say that I think we wake up every day with choices and one of those is whether or not we want to keep going to the, the grindstone. We, we hate to show up for and, and uh, I, I think that definitely is one. Now obviously you have, we're not going to go off philosophical. Uh, but, uh, I feel like that's a, that's definitely a decision, right? Like, cause that affects the happiness of the home and affects the year. Your relationships affects everything around you. I mean, you're here eight hours, 10 12. However many hours, sometimes we are, it, uh, it not to mention affects your work, the output, right. If you, if we're happy and we're passionate and we love what we do, it's going to show in our work. And I think that that speaks volumes for the companies that we work for and for our customers. And, and, and it's just, yeah. Better all the way around. So hogwash to those who say it's not a choice. I feel like it is, uh, now. Okay. Geographically speaking, yes, we are a little bit more fortunate, but anyway. Okay, let's get to it, man. Um,
Speaker 3:we're not done. I thought that was a little boy.
Speaker 1:Oh, where are we? Oh, did I cut that off too quick? Did you want to go longer on that?
Speaker 3:They're done with the podcast, I think.
Speaker 1:Oh, we covered it. Well, no, I got to get this in here, man. Like you did some really hard work and some pretty amazing stuff here with the, the Roi of transparency and I would feel like the audience really isn't getting what they probably should get out of this podcast. And a couple of dudes rambling. Okay.
Speaker 3:So, um, what's your background you deem and how did you find yourself with so much focus, like within the nutraceutical space? Yeah, so, um, it's interesting. So I grew up in a household where there was a lot of focus on health and wellness as a child. And my parents were 19 seventy's health food store enthusiasts. They were also classical musicians. Um, but you know, this was back when most natural foods, we're in bulk bins and Brown paper bags, you know, this was before the dawn of the modern, um, natural products industry. And then, um, I went to school later on for liberal arts and drama, but ended up Sir Cutie circuit circuit to[inaudible] and brand strategy and market research. Um, and then personally I've had a lot of direct experience with integrative and complementary medical approaches. I don't think I ever told, did I tell you that when I was in college, I contracted Hep B, Hepatitis B? No. So I, I got, have been in college, um, but I was never sick with it. I became a carrier. Yeah. So I, I wasn't sick, but I could make other people sick. And I'm an integrative practitioner who my family's been seeing, you know, to this very day when I first started working with him, maybe, um, I don't even know 20 years ago, uh, he reversed my carrier status working with medicinal herbs and the conventional specialist I was seeing at that time were completely dumbfounded. Um, you know, it's just not possible for that to happen. And so my respect for this whole category of integrative health and wellness, dietary supplements and herbs in particular, um, has really remained to this day. And so the business that I built here, um, was, was designed to support the brands in this space. Um, so I keep forgetting to go back and ask him how he did it. So, but he did it. That's, that's a, that's a crazy Italian. Um, but no, I didn't know that. Okay. So real quick, I mean, you're a pure branding. You're the, you're the founder. Um, what was your vision starting when I started here ranting about 20 years ago, originally with a focus on the larger natural product sector as a whole, including a lot of food and beverage brands, but we begin to specifically focus on dietary supplements and the nutraceutical industry because quite frankly, it's a more complex industry where we saw brands the same types of mistakes over and over again, and we saw our expertise become very valuable in helping to transform their businesses.
Speaker 1:So from that, uh, you know, I know that you've worked, you've worked with many brands, um, a lot of really sort of some of the, some of the biggest brands out there within the space, some of the ones that have really grown and, and matured well and continue to adapt and conform as the, the industry is as evolved. MMM. Okay. Well, I'm just going to go straight into the next one. This is why we're here. Um, you know, we are really here. I wanted, I, you know, I love talking to you as always, but I really want to talk a little bit about the Roi, the Roi of transparency. Um, the, the market research study that you have, that you've been working so diligently on you and your team. MMM. And you said it was developed because of consumer demand and that like one in five consumers, um, are choosing a transparent brand now over others. MMM. And, and this was developed with finished product brands in mind, is that, is that right? So I do, I have that right.
Speaker 3:The report is relevant to all brands in the vitamin and supplement space, um, personal care and food and beverage space. Um, so we haven't, we have an overall report in general on transparency and then we have special reports on, on those particular verticals.
Speaker 1:Okay. And then your team conducted the actual market research study, uh, from which this data was collected? Is that, yes.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we've been conducting, um, for about, for the 20 years we've been in existence, we've been doing a lot of custom market research, uh, for our clients, whether that's a consumer research for, for brands in the retail space, um, or a customer research for a lot of the direct to professional brands. And recently we've been on publishing these syndicated reports to make our insights available to a wider audience. Um, and our, our team includes a quantitative and qualitative research experts, uh, including, uh, a phd in a statistical analysis. Hmm.
Speaker 1:So they're probably much better with statistics than myself. I think. I, I had probably, I think I passed that class in college, but, okay. Anyway. Um, okay, so, so in this report it sounds like you pulled together and summarize like a ton of aspects of transparency that brands need to be aware of and consider when, when going through the steps. Okay. Uh, of becoming more transparent, um, like what some may consider, uh, probably a pretty overwhelming process. Um, so those are, the report also gives some direction on some like transparency practices, uh, the that somebody could focus on first in which ones, uh, to kind of like to not focus on. Um, could you give us an example you deem of, of an area that a company should not focused on or invest, uh, when the, when they're making, you know, strides towards gaining more transparency?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Well, I mean, that's an interesting way to look at it. At the, at the bottom of the list was management and community at at 11 and 10%, 10%, respectively. Um, but even those numbers increase when we look through the lens of a millennial audience. So the real takeaway be what not to focus on is there's no downside. The research basically said there's no downside to sharing any and all practices, uh, consumers are looking for, um, you to share as much as you can. So what's important is where to start. Um, and the most important what I, what I call the must haves that came out of the report are about ingredient labeling and that had to do with Gmos, preservatives, additives, synthetics, okay. The second, uh, standards on safety and toxicity testing and the third, uh, the science behind the product claims. So, um, you know, those are almost cost of entry in the category of this fate. What, what came up as the next series would I call the differentiators, uh, were factory conditions, the environment, third party verification, growing, processing, sourcing, um, all of those were important to, um, at, at the next level. So, um, you know, that's, it's a little bit of information that will, will hopefully be helpful to your audience.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And I mean, I hope that, okay. I hope that more and more people want to become, um, you know, wanting to take data like you were offering and, and be able to, to be it. I just feel like, you know, whether you're talking about marketing or, or, um, strict strategy, anything that you're talking about, um, okay. Within what you and I do, um, within, you know, within this industry, I don't know how anybody gets by without data. Like, I just, I really, I really don't know at this point. Like, um, there's so many, I mean, there's so many ways you can go with almost everything. And I mean, yeah, you're going to go through your exercises of identifying your, your, your customers and, and, and you know, what they, what they, uh, what their pain points are and how you need to message to them. MMM. You know? Uh, okay. I feel like still there's a whole large chunk of people that base a lot of very important marketing or business decisions on hunches and on gut feeling, whether that's based on experience that they've had or whatever. But I kind of feel like as technology evolves, as the consumer evolves and becomes more and more aware and, and there's more things that are transparent, like you really have to rely on data and those hunches are good. You know, those gut feelings are good.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I think it's interesting. So many of the companies in the space started from those gut hunches and intuition, right? These yes. And space that, you know, was started by people who are passionate about what they are doing, not necessarily business people, but at a certain stage in their evolution. In order to grow further, it needs to shift from those kind of gut gut decisions that, that gotten so far into. I'm more rational data driven decisions. Yeah, no, that's a great, that's a great, yeah. Yeah. We, we see a lot of confirmation bias. Is the, is the, uh, talent or were you basically believe what you believe everybody else believes? Um, so yeah, it's interesting cause that as a whole, what the study showed was that, um, consumers have a, have a somewhat negative view of the supplement industry is transparency relative to under relative to other industries. And so only 16% chose it as one of the most transparent industries. So the supplement industry viewed less transparent than technology, then food and beverage, uh, then personal care or even the healthcare industries. Um, so there's a, you know, a huge improvement related to transparency. The vitamin supplement companies can still make, um, and a company that's willing to disrupt a traditional transparency. So what I would, I call, there's a lot of companies out there now saying they're transparent, but they're really kind of just doing a shallow version of a revealing, just a little. So those companies willing to disrupt that paradigm could experience significant growth. And we saw that when we work with, with GAIA herbs a number of years ago and developed their, their rebrand and position in the market. And as part of that, we developed there transparency platform me herbs, which was really the first, um, robust, uh, Supplement, a transparency initiative. Um, and that led to tripling their sales, um, in a really short amount of time and a period of three to four years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I mean, yeah, it was good. I mean, it was a great timing then. It's, it's, it's almost, it's a half to now, there's no better timing. Um, it's just going to get harder and harder for those brands that, that are, are, like you said, almost more just surface level, just touching the surface of, of some transparency. Um, so they, so at the, at the, at the end of it all, um, you know, as these brands, um, you know, maybe some of the ones that still haven't pulled the trigger on just going, even maybe just going deeper into it. Maybe they've started, but they haven't gotten any deeper. Um, what in your opinion, is the real value of it? You know, overarchingly what is the real value yeah. Of Transparency?
Speaker 3:Well, and looking and looking at the insights we got from the survey, um, it's, it's clear that being perceived as transparent adds to a company's brand value. Um, so there's no risk in, in moving forward with, um, a transparency initiative, but a company that is perceived as not transparent risks, negative consequences, and it's no longer the case that transparency is a plus. Right. And its absence just is a missed opportunity. If you're perceived as nontransparent, you're actively damaging your brand's reputation and you know, without a company's bottom line. So the company leadership at this point doesn't have a transparency strategy. They're gonna fall victims to competitors who do.
Speaker 1:Yeah. No, that's, that's good stuff, man. Um, yeah. So, um, okay, so we've talked about this. I think I get it. Um, I'm sure the audience gets it and I know everybody knows it. Everybody feels it, right? Maybe because of a, I mean there's always these things get in the way. You know, we've, here we, we work in traction and we've always got these rocks in front of us that we need to get to. But when we have these day to day things that we have to do from a day to day perspective, that might get in the way of some of those and that can happen. But I don't know of, there's just a few other things I would put in this on the same level of what companies really have to, to move forward on. Um, like right now if they're not, and so,
Speaker 3:oh really? Yeah. It's really interesting because, and this is an observation we have in, in working with clients, not from the consumer side, um, of why this is such a challenge for so many companies. And I was, you know, it was a couple of years ago at expo is musing about that actually with, with Rick Scouts or the founder of Gaia. Um, cause we were pondering like, you know, why haven't other companies basically started doing what, what guy is doing? And at that, during that conversation, the light bulb went off me. It's that being transparent means being vulnerable and that can be terrifying. And so there's a lot of fear at the root of companies. Um, you know, taking slow steps towards this because there's, there's so many functional groups involved in decision making about transparency with an organization. And, and that in itself is hard when you have groups in working in different silos and one group wanting one thing and another group saying, oh, that's going to hurt us if we knew that. So green everyone together and alignment around what, you know, what the benefits are to the, the, the business. Um, and getting through that fear of, you know, are we going to be revealing too much? Will it put us at a competitive disadvantage? How much do we share? How do we be transparent about what we're not sharing. All of those things come into play. Um, but it, it, it brings up a lot of fear.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I mean, that makes sense. That makes sense. I'm sure there's some, I think there's, I'm sure there's some infrastructure operational process. There's some other things that, that, that, that are hoops to jump through as well for companies. Um, but yeah, I could see fear being the, the, uh, the leading contributor to why, um, you know, brands don't, but I think to your point, you know, if, if, if, if we can get together as a team and agreed this is the way that we are moving and then the executive branch leads that charge. Um, yeah. I, I mean, I feel like, uh, that's, that's going to be the, the, the most effective companies are those that do that, that rally around that, you know, that same strategy. So the, so, so on this study, I know I'm on the report that you did. So you, there's also a more specific report and you've broken that down into several different categories. Um, what, what categories did you, you actually decide to focus on, uh, with the other report?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so the, the special reports, I'm the go into more detail around the specific vertical, closer for vitamin supplement companies, personal care companies and food and beverage companies. Um, and so, you know, we're hoping that this consumer study will provide, um, companies listening, you know, what, what are the starting steps to know what transparency practices to focus on that are going to bring the, the most Roi. And you know, just like we just spoke of our intentions to reassure them that they're actually is real value and becoming transparent. And if you don't make a move toward that, there's a risk to the business. And then, you know, ultimately we, the, the, the report addresses, you know, the, uh, an understanding of your listeners pain. And so we found, you know, kind of three situations your listeners could be in, you know, they might be aware of the need for transparency but having trouble convincing others in their organization. Um, so the report addresses that challenge. Um, if you're being forced to make your company transparent, but I don't know where to start. Um, it'll give you the data you need to help prioritize your decision making. Um,
Speaker 1:hey, you deem, hey man, I'm going to have to call you out. I have been hoping, I have been waiting on your dean to do this cause in the beginning of this he says, hey man, give me a sign. Give me a signal if at any point I sound like I'm reading. So not only did you sound like it, I'm looking at you deem and, and you did a really good job, but you're reading a man, so I'm calling you out, calling you out. But it sounded really good. It sounded really good. So do continue. But I just had, I had to make that bottom. I copy it
Speaker 3:publicly. Shame. Yes. And now I might as well just read the third bullet point.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Read it.
Speaker 3:Department wants to know who is driving the need for transparency in the dietary supplement industry and what's important to them. This report gives marketers the data they need. How's that for a good
Speaker 1:dude? That was good. I was like teleprompter. That was really good to okay. But yeah. Yeah. Can you cover those again?
Speaker 3:Vitamin and supplement, personal care and food and beverage. Um, for your listeners, we're offering a special code on just type in Stratham as the Promo Code and you'll get$250 off any report bundle and to purchase it, just go to pure branding.com/transparency.
Speaker 1:Sweet. I even had to ask you for that. You had that already scripted and the, the, hey, you didn't sound like you read that either. That was good. I was really good. I'm impressed. You deem okay. So can you see the address again so they have it? Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yup. It's not pure branding. P U, R E B r a n d I n g.com. Forward slash. Transparency. Okay. A code. The code for the$250 off is stratum.
Speaker 1:None other than stratum. Okay. Perfect. All right, well yeah, dude, thanks for sharing that. Awesome. He gave you, gave listeners here at code, um, I hope you all were able to glean something out of this, uh, around transparency. Um, I know it's been good as always to hear about it straight from Yadim and it was a awesome talking to you. Uh, you deem as as always, um, tell to the fam your son. Hopefully everything's going. Uh, well, uh, continues going well for him and I'm sure we'll have you on again talking about something else at another time. Maybe next time we got to talk about the top 12 mistakes that suckling brands make. Is that it? Is that what we're going to do? We're going to talk about the top two. Okay. And branding mistakes. All right. That's what we're going to do then. I'm going to love that one and I'm like, Yup, we're going to have to be nice and no name co we can't, we can't call anybody out. You will recognize who you are though. Oh, okay. Yeah, that's true. I mean, I think, I think they probably always do. So anyway. Hey, thanks for coming on, man. Yeah, you're welcome, man. Thanks for coming on.
Speaker 2:You've been listening to the stratum ingredients for success podcast. Thanks for listening. We'll catch you next time.