Torpedo Swimtalk Podcast with Emma Wills - Deep dive into becoming a Masters Swimming World Champion

What does it take to become a masters swimming world champion? Join us on Torpedo Swimtalk Podcast as we have an insightful conversation with the incredible Emma Wills from Great Britain, who shares her swimming journey and how she rediscovered her passion for the sport in her 30s. Get a peek into her training routine, her experience competing with age group swimmers and the growth of Masters swimming in the UK.

Emma doesn't shy away from discussing her international competition experience, racing strategy in the 800 free and open water swim events, as well as her approach to tapering for big meets. Discover how she handles swimming in cold water, balances her training with shift work, and her impressive Ironman experience while still maintaining a primary focus on swimming. 

Aspiring swimmers, don't miss out on Emma's favorite freestyle drills, how she overcame injuries, and her top training sets! Learn about her preference for short rest intervals, use of fins in fly and kick sets, and how she keeps her training sessions fresh and engaging. Tune in to this inspiring conversation with a true swimming champion and gain valuable insights on how to improve your own performance in the pool!

Chapters

• 0:00 Master Swimmer Interview
• 12:56 Training and Competition Strategy
• 22:52 Swimming and Shift Work
• 36:32 Swimming Tips and Open Water Location

Transcript

Danielle Spurling (Speaker 1): Hello Swimmers and welcome to another episode of torpedo swim talk podcast. I'm your host, Danielle Spurling, and each week we chat to a master swimmer from around the world about their swimming journey. For today's episode, we're joined by master swimming world champion Emma Wills from Great Britain, and, among other questions, i was interested to get the low down on how Emma trains and races over the spread of events, from 200 right through to 800 freestyle. Let's hear how Emma does it. Hi, Emma, welcome to the podcast. 

Emma Wills (Speaker 2): Hi Danielle, thank you for inviting me. 

Speaker 1: Oh, you're welcome. It's great that we've got you here. Where are you based in the? 

Speaker 2: UK, in York, north Yorkshire, so in the north of England. I don't know if many people know where York is, but it's north England anyway. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's got a beautiful cathedral, York Cathedral. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a very touristy city as walls, city walls and really old buildings etc. So, yeah, a lot of history in the city. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's beautiful. Many, many years ago I went there. My dad's actually from Norwich, so I came over and met all my cousins and, yeah, it's a really nice, nice part of the world. 

Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, definitely definitely. I love living here. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, and which pool do you swim out of in York? 

Speaker 2: So we have a few pools around York and the main one that I like to swim in is called Yersley. I don't know if everybody will know the company Round Trees. It's part of Nestle, the famous for the Kit Kat. It's a pool right next to the factory. I think it originally belonged to the factory but it's a, i think, a Victorian one. It's a 50 yards pool, so it's one of the really nice looking, with the changing rooms down the sides. It's a class that can get to a long-cost pool without traveling to Leeds. And then I also train at another local pool, which is a 25 meter pool. That's the Yersley one I tend to do in public sessions. The other one is with the masters, with my master's club that I'm part of. 

Speaker 1: Oh nice, and when was the last last time you had a swim, a swim practice? It was yesterday morning. And tell us what you did for your warm-up in your main set. 

Speaker 2: I was a bit restricted on time because I was in a public session and I couldn't get the whole session in. So it was. I was going to be basically doing like some distance work, but it was a bit of a medley warm-up, just a mixture of hundreds and fifties, drills, stuff, and then the main set started off with a 600. It's called A2 sort of level, so nice and comfortable. Then It was as two, four hundreds where 200 comfortable, and then a second 200 at about 10 effort, and then three, two hundreds descend. But I could only in the time I had. I could only fit two other men as well. There was more to it but I couldn't fit in in the time. I'm sometimes restricted on time and then when I go to public sessions I see people on there and we start talking and then the time just goes. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, that happens, doesn't it? Do you have a coach that oversees your whole program, or do you do your own ones when you're swimming in the public lines? 

Speaker 2: The club I'm part of is a general club and we have a master's section and for the past, probably since about 2017 the club has allowed me to train one session a week with our top squad. So the national swimmers and I've always written down the sessions and I sort of bring back the sessions that we've done in previous years if I want to do distance stuff, and then I just I use a lot of things from Swim Swam, the coaching ones. I use a lot of those, especially for when I'm part of the master's master's section. We don't have a coach in the master's section, but obviously I get a coach with the national squad and he's been really good because him himself is a master's swimmer. So I think that's helped for them to allow me to go and join the national squad and, plus, i've started just before a couple of years, just before lockdown, to actually compete with age group swimmers as well as doing the master's competitions as well. 

Speaker 1: Right. How do you find that? because obviously, if you're with age group swimmers, they're going to be a lot younger than you on pool deck sort of what's that. What's the vibe there? 

Speaker 2: It's difficult. I like to keep myself to myself. I try to forget what age they are because obviously I'm old enough to be the mum and from experience I know myself that when you look at a swimmer in the pool, nobody looks. Everybody looks same age anyway, don't they? so it's hard. Unless you see me on the program, i don't think people would really know.  But I do get a lot of positive feedback, especially from parents actually, which you sometimes are surprised at and, like some of the marshals as well, are saying are you still here? and I say, yeah, i'll keep on going as long as I can. And it's fun and it's good to have a competition, because sometimes in, especially in distance events in masters, there's a big spread, especially 800 and 1500, so it's hard to get the people to compete with. So I found with the age group stuff there's not a bigger spread. So but yeah, everybody's a bit closer on your speed as well. So it's help and it's good to get. Obviously the coach is more or less there in most of the age group competition, so it's good to get the feedback from him as well, on my swim as well. 

Speaker 1: So did you swim as a youngster? 

Speaker 2: yeah, i swam for another club. I'm not originally from York, i'm originally from a place called Hothersfield, which is about 40 minutes away, 40 to an hour away  in West Yorkshire, and I swam for a club called Borough of Kirkleys and I gave up about when I was about 18-19. But yeah, i wasn't. I really I did distance, because that seems to be my main focus at the moment is the distance free. But I was actually a 200 backstroker. So I do dip into some backstroke as well, but I'm not. I'm not as fast as what, i obviously not as fast as what I was when I was a teenager, but yeah, yeah, i then started. So I gave up about 18, 19 years And then I started back up again when I was about 32, 33. So I've been back again for about 10 years. 

Speaker 1: And what sort of attracted you to masters at that age? 

Speaker 2: Because I had the aim of doing an Ironman when I turned 40 and I changed jobs. The job that I was previously didn't give me the enough time for me to train and compete. It would have been harder. So my job changed where I could start going again, and then because I wanted to get swimming again for doing the Ironman as well. So, but then I got into the competing again and then I just got the bug again. 

Speaker 1: Sounds good. How big is Masters in the UK? 

Speaker 2: It's getting bigger and bigger. Yeah, we've got our British championships coming up in the first weekend in June. It's a long course event And they've put qualifying times and they had two stages And the majority of spaces did get filled up in the first stage. So it is getting. I can see the difference in 10 years. how many people are starting to come back into it. It's getting really popular of it as well. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, do you get a lot of chances to race across the UK. 

Speaker 2: In the North not a lot. You get periods where there are some competitions. You've got your major competition, so the British nationals, which are tend to be the middle of the year, which is a long course event. And then probably the biggest one is the Short Course English Nationals, which are usually the last weekend in October And that's a really big popular mate Over three days for all three of them. But there's the odd ones here and there. Some get cancelled because of numbers. I've got one coming up a week tomorrow which is local, our Yorkshire Masters mate which is coming up. But yeah, the few and far between. That's another reason as well why I started to do the age group stuff, to get a bit more racing in there as well. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds like a good plan. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Not many people. There's very few people who do the both masters and age groups stuff. but yeah, I enjoy it. 

Speaker 1: And you said you were a 200 backstoker when you were younger. What attracted you into middle distance, longer distance, freestyle? 

Speaker 2: It's purely because of the Ironman. I needed to get the distance work for doing an Ironman. To be honest, i did do the when I was a teenager. they didn't have the 1500 around for females, so until I got into Masters it was the first time I'd ever done 1500. But I did the odd 800 and 400 as a teenager. but it was the 200 backstroke which was my own thing. And then, yeah, it's just through having to do it for an Ironman, and then I found that I was quite good at it, so I keep on doing it. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, quite good at it, Cause you won three gold medals in Budapest in 2017, in the two, four and eight. So congratulations on those three wins. That was terrific. What strategy did you use in racing the 800 free on the first day? 

Speaker 2: I'd done the open water swim as well a few days prior to it And yeah, i was irking a bit from that And I just thought I'll just go in and just see what happens. I was seeded, i think, second fastest going in my age group. So I was in the age group below the one I am now And I think the girl who was entered fastest was the heat after me. So I hung around. Yeah, i just swam it and just hoped for the best I did okay. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, a bit better than okay. How did you go in the open water one the few days before? 

Speaker 2: I came second, the lady who came second to me in the 800, she won the open water. And then we swapped positions on that, on the 800 as well. To be honest, the open water was just a bonus thing And again, to help me with my Ironman training. I do go in and out of open water swimming, but I don't tend to train for it. I just go in there and hope for the best and just hope that the public swimming does it. I don't like the cold water. I hate cold water. Plus, i don't like, and then I don't like the wet suit restricted on wetsuits, so when it's cold water you got to wear wetsuits. But a lot of people do like to swim in the wetsuit because it makes them go faster, but I feel too restricted in it. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of people that are not as fast in the pool with particularly people that are not good kickers often are great in a wetsuit in the ocean. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's open water is just there if I fancy it, and yeah, i don't really do much of it. 

Speaker 1: So yeah, did you find that when you did the open water and then you came into the 800 that you were a bit sore in the muscles because you'd raced it? 

Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. So I think there was a European championships in what was it? 2018, 2019 in Slovenia and I did the pool swims and I only did the open water because it came after the pool swims And I've entered Japan. I would have done the open water in Japan, but again, the open water comes before the pool swims and my main focus now is pool swims and I know that I'll probably suffer a bit after the open water, so I'm leaving that for this year anyway. 

Speaker 1: So Yeah, I think a lot of swimmers would do it if it was after the pool swimming. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's difficult. 800 is always the first event on the first day. Yeah, so yeah, it's difficult. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, i agree. How did you because the 800s on the first day and then there's, i think, there's a day's break, and then there's the 200 and then 400s on the last day of competition How did you hold your taper the whole week? 

Speaker 2: I don't really do much. I think I went, i went in, i went in for a couple of swims between each one, but no, the things have changed since then. For me now, what I've discovered is sports massage, and it was Europeans. Last year in Rome, i did a load of research and ended up finding a sports massage guy in Rome and I found that that does help a lot, and I hadn't discovered it when I was in Budapest. Well, i knew, obviously knew about sports massage, but I'd never really had them as part of my training, recovering, competition. But in the past couple of years I found a guy who comes to my house and he'll come like on on a weekend if I'm local and he'll, he'll come on a Saturday night. So if I'm something, Saturday and Sunday, that's how I approach it now. But back then it was just my first experience of a big international competition And I went out there, enjoyed all the experience, and having the swimming and going really well was a bit of a bonus as well.  So I didn't really do much. I maybe went for a couple of runs as well. That's about it. 

Oh, in between your racing in Budapest, 

Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, running is something that I do like to do. I feel that helps with my endurance fitness and it's one thing that helps keep weight off as well. For me, for is running as well, so yeah, And out of the, out of the three races that you did, which one were you most pleased with? 

Speaker 2: I'd say probably 203, because I absolutely hit 203 with with a passion. I only do it If I really have to. Yeah, so had it was close, it's probably was the closest race as well, and it, it, i just hit 203, especially along course, just hit. I think a few years ago I said I would do a 203 until I move up an age group. I'm actually doing 203 a week on Saturday long course as well. So I'll probably regret that decision once I, once I'm in there, the 203 sort of going off my sort of target for events. Like I say, i'll only do them to try and get the British records. Once I've got a British record then I don't intend to sort of do them again and that. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, they do hurt, don't they? 

Speaker 2: Absolutely horrendous. I don't know why people do that Probably one of them. I've never done a 200 fly, so I can't compare it with a 200 fly, but yeah, in the events that I do, it's probably the one I hate the most. 

Speaker 1: Yes, And I just wanted to talk about your training, because you do do that spread of distances. So how? so tell it? talk us about your training week. What does a typical training week look like for you? How many times do you swim, when do you swim, and what else do you add into that for your week? 

Speaker 2: Yeah, So I try to do maybe six sessions a week. Sometimes I may add in a double day session, depending on how I feel and depend. I work shift work, so it depends on that as well. I try to get in. I do a bit of a mixture of a few distance sessions and I've started to sort of double in the 400 diameter as well. So I have to get some meddling and try and get the confidence offline being able to do 100 fly, especially long course. And the thing I always find it hard to do, especially in public session, is backstroke. My backstroke training isn't as much as what I like it to be, because when you're swimming backstroke in a public session I'm always forever looking around So I don't have to swim over anybody. So that's always a big difficult. So I try and mix it up. The focus, as mentioned earlier, that I swim with a national club It used to be a lot of the session I did was a lot of distance stuff. It's now sort of gone into sprint stuff. So we do a lot of stats and a lot of short like 25 and 50s, which does help help as well, especially when I go on. I do double in a bit of sprint if I feel like it as well. I also do. 

Speaker 2: I myself I'm a PT And I do zoom classes for a couple of people And so I get a lot of my weights stuff. So like weights, like weights, body weight exercises, about that's usually two to three times a week And then I try to run and cycle a bit as well. So try and get two to three runs of cycles a week in that. Yeah, i don't, i know you spurs, but I don't particularly have one day off where I don't do anything But the I do have, unless I'm competing. Saturday is the day where I don't do any swimming full stop, but I do like Sometimes the Zoom class. I'll do a runora cycle as well. 

Speaker 1: We'll be back in a moment, but in the meantime, reviews help people find us. So if you like what we're doing, it would be great if you could help us out by jumping on your podcast app and giving us a rating to spread the word and let us know what you love. Now back to the show. How do you fit that all in? Do you work life balance? How do you fit all those sessions in? 

Speaker 2: I work shifts. I work in a hotel, in the leisure club, and the shift pattern I work a lot of where I start at 2.30 and finish at 11 o'clock so I can get stuff done in the morning, and that, yeah. And I work four days a week so I get three days off, so that helps as well. I don't have any children as well, so that helps. Because I work shifts, my husband works more or less during the day so I can get stuff done when he's not here as well. Time management I suppose I've got good time management. I say I do. It's hard to get to a lot of my master's sessions. I don't always get there. I do a lot of my swimming public sessions and they tend to be done in the morning. So yeah, that's what I do. 

Speaker 1: Sounds good. Do you do any strength work outside of the body weight exercise? Do you lift any weights? 

Speaker 2: No, i just do what? the zoom classes. I do a bit of weights, but they're not heavy weights because they're quite high record numbers as well. So I don't do any heavy lifting. For me, this is what seems to work, i think. If I get too heavy with being a distance swimmer, i don't think it would help me anywhere. Too muscular, too heavy through the water. It's like when I was doing, when I'd done the Ironman, i struggled and I think it was I put it down to the side plane that my legs I built up too much legs mass and it just I just suffered for a bit after I'd done an Ironman. Ironman did you do? I did Barcelona in 2019, so it was October 2019 and I never go do one again. 

Speaker 1: No. 

Speaker 2: Why? Because the training is just takes up. You have to go out on your bike for like six, seven hours and it's a long time. That, yeah, it just takes up your life once and once. People always said to me that once I'd done that, i'd want to do another one. I said no, up to that, i'd done a lot of marathons as well, just so I know I could do the distance, and I don't intend to do it another marathon again either. 

Speaker 1: So yeah, Yeah well, you've done it once. 

Speaker 2: Because it's now on swimming and that's it. That's my first. 

Speaker 1: They brought in the 1500 at the World Championships as well. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, i presume I would have thought it's because of timing. But yeah, i'd like to do a 1500 at the World's, but it makes your programme a bit longer as well and it's decisions are there and yeah, it's trying to fit it in as well. And 800 and 1500 in one competition. I've done it a few times, but it's so hard. 

Speaker 1: So they have it at the US Nationals, masters Nationals, they have 1500, or they just had the 1650 yard one. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, we'd have it. We have it at our national competitions as well. So the one in October, the short course one, the 1500, is always it's over three days. The 1500 is always the first event on the Friday morning and the 800 is always the last event on the Sunday late afternoon. So that's spread. It's okay if you're only there for those two events and you don't have to travel far. But yeah, i understand people, it's difficult to choose and both of you have to stay over. But it's a while since I think I've done 800 and 1500 in one competition. I actually know I like. 

Speaker 2: Last year I qualified for the age group British Championships I think they were using it for the trials for what was the Europeans last year and I qualified for the 800 and 1500 and I did it there. But I didn't do it very well because I just had COVID. I just had about two weeks off of COVID but I had to do it because competing in the British Championships at 40, it might never happen again. So I did absolutely rubbish and that was. I think I had a couple of days recovery. But yeah, i'm trying to learn from those stupid mistakes. 

Speaker 1: We're always learning, that's for sure. Yeah, yeah, what events have you entered for Japan? 

Speaker 2: So I've entered the 800 free, the 200 back and the 400 IM. The reason why I'm not doing the 400 free is I blame my husband. So it's at the end of the week and he's got to be back before the 400 free. So I thought I have to choose another one and I did my first 400 IM as a masters. Well, my first one was in an age group competition, but it would be the first one I'd done for well over 20 years And I didn't do too bad. So, yeah, i'll double a bit in 400 IM and it's sort of gone okay. So, yeah, i blame him for making me have to do a 400 IM. Was that all the 200 free style? and I've picked the 400 IM, but I was always going to do the plan would have been to do the 800 free, the 400 free and the 200 back, straight. But yeah. So the decision between the 200 free and 400 IM, that 400 IM. 

Speaker 1: Anyway, Yeah, So I'm going to go to the end. Is that one of your strengths? 

Speaker 2: Not at all. Not at all, never have been. I can't go underwater. That's what I struggle with on the back stroke is I have to pop up? Yeah, i can't. If I, if I go too far underwater on turns, my legs go and then my whole body just sort of goes. So no, i have to get into my stroke and pop up. Yeah, not a term here. I never was. I don't think I was when I was a kid. But I think things have changed on now. Since I was in the 90s, when I was competing as a kid, i think things have turned on and turns are more important than we didn't really do. A lot of stuff, a lot of underwater stuff as well. So things have gone on and I just I need oxygen. I can't cope without oxygen, so I have to just get breathing. 

Speaker 1: How about your start? Have you got a good dive? 

Speaker 2: No. 

Speaker 1: No. 

Speaker 2: Not at all. I've watched a few videos back and, yeah, i'm not great. That's probably why I'm not a sprinter as well, because I don't have the good enough stats as well. It's more nice to swim on the backstroke, but I compare myself to like the teenagers. A lot of the times they'll come up and I'll be like my head will be at the feet, but I eventually catch them up. But I've wasted all that time. Yeah, my start turns now. 

Speaker 1: Do you in Masters in the UK do you get to use the backstroke ledges? 

Speaker 2: Just starting to get in now. There's a few competitions that do have it, so, yeah, i do use them. Now if they're there, you don't get the chance to practice it, to be honest. So the only time I sort of practice it is in the warm-up as well. So it does seem to be okay. But, like I said, i'm not good at stats to get it right. I sometimes go too deep and then I've gone too far for me underwater as well. So then sometimes I start to panic if I've gone too far underwater. But yeah, i use them. They're definitely better for not slipping on it, but yeah, i can cope without them. 

Speaker 1: We don't actually have access to them in Australia in Masters for me at this stage, but I believe they had them in Budapest and they're having them in Japan, so hopefully it's something that will filter through everywhere. 

Speaker 2: I had them, so the Europeans in August. They had them in Rome there. The Europeans before that was Slovenian. I didn't do the backstroke there, so I don't know whether they had the ledgers there. But yeah, they're a bit weird to start off with, but I can see the benefit for them, especially if you're a good starter as well. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, and what do you think about that new backstroke rule where you come into the wall from the flags underwater? There's no way I could do that at the end of a race. 

Speaker 2: I know, i don't know how anybody could do that. I've seen one or two videos on it And yeah, it'd be interesting to see if anybody starts, like in the elites, whether anybody actually starts. But if anybody's got any breath left then obviously they aren't being tried hard enough for the last two or a last bit. I did a 200 backstroke on Monday competition and there's no way I was getting underwater. The last bit I was on the pool side. I'd just sit down on the pool side. After it I was knackered without going underwater. Like I said, for me personally, i'm a bad kicker as well. I think I'm getting a bit better, but my kick is horrendous. So for me it wouldn't. But I can see that some people it might be a bad advantage. I can't throw myself into a finish on a backstroke anywhere because it hurts, especially a 200 backstroke at the end. 

Speaker 1: Interesting that you don't think you're a good kicker because usually 200 backstroke you really need that kick in the second half of the race, so you must be all upper body are you? 

Speaker 2: I must be. I do struggle with my legs. My legs, just after a certain point, go to jelly. Yeah, no, i'm not a kicker at all. I hate kicking. I don't do enough kicking, especially fly kicking as well. I think that's why my fly is not. I'm not strong at fly, because I just can't kick. I like it, but then I don't like it. Kicking is painful for me. 

Speaker 1: Everyone that comes on the podcast. I like to ask them deep dive, five favorite questions about swimming. So I wondered what your favorite pool to swim in is. 

Speaker 2: Pondsford, sheffield. Why is that so special? It's a fast pool. I think it was the 90s it was built. it was built for the world's student games And it's in the area where I brought up. So a lot of I've competed there, maybe hundreds of times over the years since it has been built, and I tend to do a lot of good swims there, so closely followed by ones that I've only just started competing in, since Masters one at Blackpool, which is a short course pool. Pondsford can either be short course or long course, and our big meat of Masters short course meat is held there every year. It's because it can cope with the capacity of people And when it comes to the short course competition, they can do two races at the same time, one in one pool, one in the other. So you get a lot of things And, like I say, it just seems to be a fast pool. It's renowned for being a fast pool anyway. So yeah, pondsford. 

Speaker 1: To check it out next time I'm in the UK. What's been your favorite open water swimming location? 

Speaker 2: It'll been at the European Masters Championships in Slovenia in Lake Bled. I don't know if you know of Lake Bled, but it's a beautiful place And the course was it was a fast course because they use the rowing sort of section And there was like a rope all the way down, so you sort of followed the rope So you didn't really have to do any spotting of anything, so you could sort of keep your head straight and not lift it up too many times. So yeah, that's it, and it was just so beautiful that it was a lovely lake. That, yeah, definitely. 

Speaker 1: Nice. What's the water temperature? like Was okay. 

Speaker 2: Water, no wet, so it was. I can't remember, to be honest, but it was nice temperature, good temperature. 

Speaker 1: Nice. What's your favorite freestyle drill? 

Speaker 2: Using snorkel and fins. I like to do I in a superman positions do six kicks and then do three strokes and six kicks on the other side. three strokes, that's probably one of the best ones, to be honest. Yeah, that one. 

Speaker 1: And have you had any injuries over your career that you've had to get over? 

Speaker 2: But so it was. So I didn't know I broke my foot. I'd been out running and a few days before I had to do a marathon and I'd hurt my foot and I just thought it was just an injury. So I went to a physio. he strapped it up, i ran the marathon and my foot just swelled up. The following day I tried to get in a physio appointment and I was saying to my husband I think I should go to A&E. He says no, no, no, you'll be fine. I said I should do it And I went to A&E. They said yeah, you've got a fracture. And I just cried So yeah, that's probably the worst one, but I'm lucky. I get a few odd niggles, and that's when I'm running and that, but nothing that stops me completely swimming, except for the broken foot. 

Speaker 1: Yeah and what's your favorite freestyle training set? 

Speaker 2: Something that pushes me with shorter rests. I also like something longer. So yesterday was a good session that I did. So the one I said so, the 600, the two 400s and then three 200s and then it should have been a 400, two 200s kick and threshold for 100s. I do sometimes like the threshold stuff, even though I know it hurts, but I don't have any particular sets. I'm one of these people who like to mix things up and don't do the same thing. I'm not one of these people who will keep track of every session, at what times and compare it to the next one, because I know that my body's not always gonna be great And it can sometimes feel like it's gonna put me down if I do the same session again and I'm not as good. But I don't really have a better set, sorry. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's okay. What is the four 100s? you mentioned the threshold set. What time are they on? 

Speaker 2: It was off 130. I do like them if I want to challenge myself. This is in a 50 yards pool. Anyway I do like a set. That I do if I can do it off 120s to push myself a bit more and try to hold. I try to hold in a 50 yards pool. I try to hold anything around between one or six to one 10 per 100 on any 100 sets. That's in the yards pool, so yeah. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, so getting about 10 seconds rest, or a little more Yeah yeah, yeah, and is that what most of your training looks like when you sort of working on those longer distances? You like short rest. 

Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, i don't like hanging around. Yeah, i like to get over and done with. 

Speaker 1: Do you use fins much? 

Speaker 2: Yes, I like to use fins, especially on fly kicking because it makes it easier. and fly, Yeah, I do like to use fins, but that's because it makes it easier no other reason. As you can see, i'm not really structured. I just go into my sessions. I hope for the best. If I have a bad day, i'll have a bad day, and I try and do that with my competing as well. But I do get upset sometimes, don't we all? 

Speaker 1: Yeah Well, emma, thank you so much for joining us today on the podcast. It's been lovely chatting to you and wishing you best of luck for Japan later in the year, thank you. Thank you so much, it's been lovely. 

Speaker 2: Hopefully somebody's got something out of that anyway, but I've enjoyed it. Thank you, Danielle, for everything. 

Speaker 1: So, okay, take care, thank you, okay, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye. Thanks to Emma for coming on the podcast today and sharing her master swim journey with us. I hope you enjoy listening to these different swimmers as much as I enjoy talking to them and hearing about what makes their journey unique. Till next time, happy swimming and bye for now.