Torpedo Swimtalk Podcast with Avery Adams - S&C and Swim Coach

Ever wondered how world-class swimmers train and what sets them apart from masters swimmers? Get ready to dive into the knowledge pool with Avery Adams, a seasoned swim coach, swimmer, and strength and conditioning coach who shares his unique journey into coaching and his insights on various training approaches on this week's episode of Torpedo Swimtalk Podcast

Get set to transform your swimming training as Avery takes us through his philosophy of strength and conditioning for swimmers. Learn about the blend of total body, upper body, lower body, and core workouts that he spreads throughout the week. Understand his insights on dynamic preparation, explosive movements, and the importance of individualising training programs. Listen to the value of synchronising gym and pool workouts, and how essential it is to achieving peak performance levels.

We also address the challenge of the overwhelming abundance of fitness information out there. How do we know what's useful for swimmers and coaches, and what's not? Avery lends his expert guidance on the matter, emphasising the importance of mastering movements and being patient with progression. Plus, he shares his favourite strength and conditioning exercises for masters swimmers, his preferred freestyle drill, and his top choice for a US swimming pool. So, gear up for an electrifying conversation with Avery and give your swimming training the boost it needs!

Connect with Avery:
Website
Instagram 

Thank you to our sponsors of todays episode
Amanzi Swimwear
The Magic 5 goggles use code TORPEDOSWIMTALK15 for a 15% discount on all full priced items

Chapters

• 0:07 Strength and Conditioning for Masters Swimmers
• 11:29 Advancements and Opportunities in Athletics
• 25:15 Training Philosophy and Program Design
• 32:28 Navigating the Overload of Fitness Information
• 38:11 Strength and Conditioning Coaching and Planning

Transcript

Danielle Spurling: 0:07

Hello Swimmers and welcome to another episode of Torpedo Swim Talk podcast. I'm your host, Danielle Spurling, and each week I chat to a master swimmer from around the world about their swimming journey. Today's guest is Avery Adams, an experienced swim coach, swimmer and strength and conditioning coach who works with swimmers of all ages. Avery has some really interesting things to share about strength and conditioning for masters athletes and I'm sure that you are going to enjoy hearing from him as much as I enjoyed talking to him. Let's hear from Avery now. Hi, Avery, welcome to the podcast.

Avery Adams: 0:51

Thanks for having me.

Danielle Spurling: 0:52

Oh, you're really welcome. Where are you joining us from today?

Avery Adams: 0:56

I am joining you from Charleston, South Carolina.

Danielle Spurling: 0:59

What's it been like there today, weather-wise?

Avery Adams: 1:02

Incredibly humid, hot, rainy. Yeah, it's kind of the muggy time of the season. It's very buggy outside. We live near the beach but we're kind of in the low country, so a lot of swamps, a lot of that kind of thing. But it's just part of life, right Part of the summer.

Danielle Spurling: 1:17

Yeah, is that sort of near the outer banks? Is that that area? Yeah, you're close.

Avery Adams: 1:22

Yeah, I think we're probably like seven hours south roughly. You just kind of keep coming down the east coast and you'll run into me where I'm on the coast.

Danielle Spurling: 1:30

Right Looks like a very nice area to be.

Avery Adams: 1:33

It is absolutely. There's a lot of history and, like I said, a lot of beaches, a lot of neat restaurants, there's a great food scene and coffee, so it's a pretty cool vibe for sure.

Danielle Spurling: 1:43

And I know you spend a lot of time coaching on pool deck and working in the gym with athletes, but do you get a chance to do much swimming yourself these days?

Avery Adams: 1:51

It's been a little bit since I've been in the pool, to be honest, but I found as time went on throughout my near 20 year coaching career, it was really nice to have something else. So I competed in triathlon for about a decade. I've done Ironmans, I've done, you know, marathons, half marathons, a lot of that kind of thing. While my passion is absolutely the water, it's been really nice to dive into other things. I'm a big cycling fan, so it's still all athletic, obviously, but yeah, I don't swim as much.

Danielle Spurling: 2:24

Yeah, fantastic. So give us a bit of an insight into your own background in swimming. Take us back to how you first got introduced to it.

Avery Adams: 2:31

So my upbringing and history is probably a little bit different than most. So like a kid I played all sports and really I started riding my bike up to a summer pool right next to my elementary school, right around like the age of nine, and my neighborhood was very unique in that it was pretty enclosed. You could ride your bike wherever you wanted. It was very safe. And so, you know, in the 90s growing up, it was here's five or six dollars from mom and dad and you just rode your bike to the pool and you hung out and you made friends at the lifeguards or whatever the kids around you. And then, you know, played soccer, basketball.

Avery Adams: 3:07

I was not a very big kid so football was not in my repertoire, but grew up a multi-sport athlete. And then the summer league system, the high school swimming but I grew up in a really small town, so the club swimming that's way more prevalent these days in the states and really around the globe. It just wasn't an opportunity for me, but you know what. That being said, like a high school swimming, summer league and then playing high school basketball in opposite season and soccer. So a little bit different there, but I always loved it and you know, looking back, I've always been around the water my entire life and so once I went beyond high school, had some opportunity to swim in college but ended up moving out to California instead with some friends, so had some, you know, unique life experiences for a couple years, and then really I came back at, I guess, 19 and got into coaching almost right away. So in one way or another I've been around the pool since a very, very young age.

Danielle Spurling: 4:10

What drew you to coaching?

Avery Adams: 4:13

I think it was just the love for the water. You know, in a lot of ways I think I feel very blessed in the sense that it's been a calling and you know, whatever you believe in terms of the universe providing for you or these opportunities that kind of come up organically along the way in our lives. You meet the right person at the right time or you just stumble into a job at the right time. I was asked to be an assistant coach of a very small team I think we had 20 kids at a pool I was lifeguarding at and that's just what started it and I was very into, obviously, working out and being athletic and I was like you know what this sounds like a really cool thing and I loved being a lifeguard.

Avery Adams: 4:55

I really plan on kind of staying in that field to begin with, trying to get into like management. You know what I mean. Just, I was always in and thralled with the pool and that's really what sparked it was that that little 20 person swim team. And really that same year I actually started a master swim team also and it was named the Mercyless Tuna. We had an amazing logo. I wish, I wish we still had our swim caps, but it was just a tuna flexing and so we were my buddy and I started the team, but it was really fun. So that's kind of what started everything.

Danielle Spurling: 5:27

What do you find the difference between age group coaching, age group swimmers and master swimmers? What's what's the differences? That you say so?

Avery Adams: 5:37

Outside of what we would kind of be the first, the first thing we think about is typical, like age, right. But I'm actually going to come out this question from a different angle. I feel like the major differences are generational programming, and so I find that Summers that have been in the sports, that you know whatever the age is, but some of that's been in the sport for a long time has these preconceived notions of proper ways to train. Now, each generation Absolutely has things that we should grab from it. But if you've got a, you know, a 50 year old master swimmer who's only done it one way a lot of times, it's that programming that's really difficult to crack through, and so when I get to that point or that Person I'm working with, I come at that from an angle of patience and being willing to teach.

Avery Adams: 6:25

So we have a lot of conversations, but by and large, it's the programming and I don't use it in a negative light, it's just kind of is what it is. We absorb these things and our experiences are what make us who we are. You know, on the age group side of things are very pliable in terms of learning. They're open to feedback, they want to hear from the coach, not that master's summers don't, but you know what I mean. They're just in two very distinct places, and so each side of things requires a different approach, requires a different version of myself, which, as a coach, it's really important to have these different levels and these different capacities for the every person that we're talking to. So, again, I don't look at it as just like an age barrier. I look at it as we're dealing with two very different, evolved beings.

Danielle Spurling: 7:14

I sort of I hear what you're saying. I know as a swimmer an age group swimmer myself went back in, you know, sort of in the 80s. We all did 12 sessions a week and we all right smashed out the kilometers.

Danielle Spurling: 7:25

You know, right, a lot of kilometers, and I was a hundred, a hundred, maybe two hundred swimmer at the time, but it's. You know, to get that thinking out of my head now. As a master swimmer, swimming four sessions a week is Really really hard to fight against it when you you know the new way of Training for those kind of things is is doing more quality, whereas back in the day we did quantity, and I still, even though I know that's the right thing for me now and I can't possibly do what I used to do, I struggle in my mind and I hear exactly what you're saying it's probably something to come across with a lot of other master swimmers very, very frequently.

Avery Adams: 8:01

That's typically the first thing that happens and you know it's.

Avery Adams: 8:06

I'm very thankful to have had the experiences I've had to get me to this point where I've started elevate, because you know, the coach who I used to be ten years ago Would take that as like a hit to my ego, right, if? If someone's like you know I used to do it this way and I'm like, well, I'm telling you the right way to do it. But in all actuality it's more about teaching that person. So I take on a lot of difficult people that other coaches or clients that are sorry, other coaches I've had a hard time with at any age, and just through patience and caring about the person and what, whatever age they're at and whatever level of Movement proficiency or ability that they're at, and just being patient it goes a long way and you typically find that People are more open to those learning new things when they know the person that they're working with is also willing to have those types of Conversations. So when you come at it from a level of empathy and understanding, it makes it a little bit easier.

Danielle Spurling: 9:02

Yeah, yeah, I agree. I mean, I feel like this is the way forward. A lot of what you're talking about is a Program that fits others, but then to make it individualized towards different swimmers.

Avery Adams: 9:14

Correct, yeah, and I mean even in the club setting. I mean it's very common. You know my national group before I left the pool deck full-time I think we had a right around 2025 ish and then if my second group was combined, we might have 40 50 kids in the pool and I was very comfortable in that capacity of like having that many kids. But what I tried to tell families and individual athletes is yes, we are absolutely a team sport, but it's also very possible to coach the individual in a team setting. So you might have to break it up and just print me mid-d or distance, so you might have to have your sprinters put on fins that day, or a new kid in the group might go half the distance. Whatever it is. When you talk to that individual and say, hey, this is what you need to do on this day and give them more wiggle room, then you can build those relationships also. And that's an any age, like whether I'm coaching masters or whether I'm coaching a 10 year old.

Danielle Spurling: 10:06

Yeah, and in your experience working with master swimmers, what, what's sort of the, the parts of that that make a successful master swimmer like what, what, what do you see is working for them?

Avery Adams: 10:18

I find that most master swimmers genuinely want to get better right. So you've got this dichotomy of they're in the water because they love the sport. No one's forcing a master swimmer into the pool. They're waking up at 5 am, we're diving in the pool at 5 30, sometimes earlier, by their choice, so it makes it a little bit easier and they want to be there, like I said.

Avery Adams: 10:38

So, um, a successful master swimmer really is really good at juggling life, work and the sport, um being willing to, you know, take care of the nutrition, um, enjoy life all at the same time. So really, it's all about balance, I think, at at any level of master swimming, um, but those who are hungry to continue to learn can still make huge progress. Um, you know, we'll talk about one of my uh summers that I have now, who um had a very severe stroke at 21 and kind of has had to battle through that, and where she is now in her 50s. So it's a really kind of unique story. But, um, I think if, like I said, if people are willing to learn and they're hungry and they enjoy the sport, um, everybody can still make progress for a very, very long time.

Danielle Spurling: 11:29

Do you think that at the age of 50, you just mentioned that, ladies that there's a possibility to get back to close to the times that she had in her early 20s like teens?

Avery Adams: 11:40

Yeah, and I think a lot of it is because the training styles have shifted. So if we were chasing sheer aerobic volume, there's no way we can get back to that. But if I look at her schedule, you know said we got seven days in a week and I can say, okay, we need threshold on this day, quality, on this day, recovery day here. And then I'm blending the gym sessions in Absolutely and we've been going best times for the last several months and so, again, it just gets back to the quality, it gets back to very focused sessions and then addressing her individual needs and so she'll do her master's workout. And then if right now we're trying to get better at other strokes, I'm like, hey, here's your fly set, she'll add that on. Or I'll say, hey, make sure you take a day off here. Whatever it is, we can absolutely get back and I think, primarily because the education level has increased so much on physiology, on recovery, on nutrition, on just program design, and all these variables can really still allow for some amazing success.

Danielle Spurling: 12:41

Yeah, I mean I can't believe how much more we know these days from when I was swimming as an age group, but we didn't even have a water bottle at the side of the pool back in those days, and it was frowned upon to even get out of the water and go and get a drink of water. So it's just in those type of ways it blows my mind how far we've come. I wish I was an age group right now. I think it would be awesome to be involved in it.

Avery Adams: 13:05

I know, I think sometimes the new norm, people don't realize how good things are. And so, yeah, totally, they're just like, oh, this is normal, whereas we're looking back on our lives like man. I really wish I had that, so I totally understand.

Danielle Spurling: 13:19

Yeah, I just get so inspired by the recent world champs that were on. You know you're seeing all those swimmers up there and supporting them all. I love all of their fantastic sort of races that they did. What was your favorite race of the world champs? Did you have one?

Avery Adams: 13:34

I mean Ledecky's looking pretty good, but I'm really enjoying the sprinting side of things. I feel like outside of the US and this is not a knock on any swimming anywhere, you know what I mean but they've welcomed sprinters with open arms, so you've got all events, whereas here, I've liked the selection process is much different and we're kind of losing out on potential great sprinters. Now I love coaching all events, but I think it's just neat to see this evolution of the sport. As a fan of the sport, I like seeing those things to where we're not putting up walls based on events or allowing these individuals that might have been pushed out five years ago, 10 years ago, and now they're in a limelight and they're getting world records or getting medals. So I think it's just neat to see the sport evolve and to open our minds up to possibilities and giving more people a chance to be successful. But yeah, there was a lot of great swims, but you know that was probably my favorite part. It's just a fan of the sport itself.

Danielle Spurling: 14:35

I would love to see 50 form strokes added to the Olympic schedule. I think it'd be great for the sport.

Avery Adams: 14:41

Absolutely.

Danielle Spurling: 14:42

And I think it would keep a lot of those older athletes like the Sarah Strohstroms and Cam McAvoy and lots of those guys that are in their early 30s or about to hit 30, that are in those 50 meter races and it's a lot easier for them to fit that into their work schedule.

Avery Adams: 14:59

Correct. Yeah, it adapts to the life well and we know now from like a maturation standpoint that people can be very successful in their 30s, late 30s. I mean there's several pro cyclists in their 40s that were just in the tour winning stages. So, like you said, I think it provides these unique opportunities around the globe for all federations to go in and be successful.

Danielle Spurling: 15:23

And you're not only coach on pool deck, you coach in the gym as well as a strength and conditioning coach. What sort of led you down that path to add that to your?

Avery Adams: 15:30

repertoire. Repertoire, if you.

Danielle Spurling: 15:33

Repertoire that's the word I'm looking for. Yeah.

Avery Adams: 15:37

Yeah. So it kind of goes back to what I was saying earlier about when I felt this calling towards the sport and I've always been one and I probably get this from my dad Anything that we get excited about, we go all in. So I was never one to just take things at face value. It was I would ask more questions. I've needed to know more, and then it got to me finding the right mentor at the right time.

Avery Adams: 16:02

I mean, as a 20 year old I was working with a coach that had already been to the Olympic Olympics and had those experiences and worked with very well known coaches here in the US, coaches like Don Gamble out of Alabama and other Olympic sprinters and of all distances to not just sprinters. But being young I probably didn't absorb it as much as I should have looking back, but I know I gained, probably had more questions and answers at that point too, like I've just like blown away behind the set design, the season planning and, just coming from the athletic background, I enjoyed working out. So it was just one of those things where I'm like, okay, dry land is a piece of this and I just went all in on that too. So it's just been a passion of mine and all capacities as a coach, whether it's nutrition recovery, the weight room or athletic development and the pool side of things, program design. I'm a big nerd on all of it.

Danielle Spurling: 17:04

And what kind of athletes do you work with in the strength and conditioning world?

Avery Adams: 17:09

So primarily swimmers, but I do, or I have had some baseball players this year. You know, the thing about athletic development is, by and large, 99% of athletic developments could be the same, especially your normal kind of general population, really even at the collegiate level, like there's not a huge difference from what the swimmers are doing and like, let's say, like a baseball player. There might be sport specific elements but the chunk of work is still the exact same. So I look at it more as athletic development and a coach a certain athletic development coach that just happens to be in the swim world, and just coaching of all ages. I mean I have right now seven year olds all the way up to 66 year olds.

Avery Adams: 17:54

At the moment I've got a pretty wide range, being full-time swim coach within a USA program for I guess 16 years or so. That became part of my job as I came through the system, through my career. So every team I was at I ended up riding the dryland 4. And my most recent position was with a team called South Carolina Swim Club. We had four different sites. At one point we came down to three 400 swimmers, 350 swimmers, 14 different training groups, and so my job was to blend all of it. So I'm starting at the top, I'm working back. That way it's a progressive program, group to group, age to age, year to year, and then it can just continually moving that forward. So, like I said, you know all these experiences have shaped who I am today.

Avery Adams: 18:43

So now that I'm more, a little bit more, in the individualized coaching world, I still have teams that I write dryland programs for. Right now I've done some team presentations. I've got some LSC or local swim committee presentations here soon. So I do a lot of different things. I actually wrote a program for elements Australia, the club team there. So one of the sites I did their dryland program for last year and I do some season planning for a team and Switzerland also. So I'm doing a lot of global stuff Fantastic.

Danielle Spurling: 19:19

And you mentioned you've got a seven year old up to a 66 year old. What's the difference in their programs? How do you individualize it for that age span?

Avery Adams: 19:29

Yeah, so yeah, absolutely. You know, at the age group level and really at all levels, if we think about athletic development as movement development, things get a little bit more easy to see. So a lot of times, like my 66 year old, when he first came in, I taught him how to skip, how to jump, how to land, how to move laterally. So guess what, at that seven, eight year old level it's the same because and even at the elite level it's the same I'm teaching multi-plane movement and then picking the exercise based on their needs, where they are at that given point in time. So a lot of the core at the master's level is still the same.

Avery Adams: 20:08

I look at it as teaching movements and I do know, you know, as we get older we kind of shy away from those foundational athletic elements, like and some of it is, you know, like I said, the generational programming. But some of it becomes we're not, we're scared, right, we're scared to do a box jump. I mean, I've had a lot of that and it's just through patience we can get people through that. But you have to look at where that person is and then you have to have the perspective of that age range. So, like I know a 10-under needs to do these certain elements and I know this because my experience has set me up to build this out.

Avery Adams: 20:44

And then at the other levels or sorry, master swimming you just have to look and see what their life is like, whether they've had surgeries, whether they've had, or whether they sit at a desk all day. You know, I've got several doctors or people that sit or stand. Everybody's shoulders are like this. So now thoracic mobility comes into play and just getting scapulas back and down. So you've got this, these core tenants of athletic development that really don't shift. And then you've got your life, and then you've got the age, and then what their goals are, that kind of tie into everything.

Danielle Spurling: 21:19

Yeah, I love that. I love the fact that you can individualize those types of programs. I think it works very well for the masters athlete Sorry, it works really well for the masters athlete because, as you say, they've got work, they've got family commitments. They don't just have that same sort of set of a school, a school age student who's going to school being taken by their parents and then coming to swim training. So it is a very different world that you're working in. For both of those different types of swimmers it is yeah.

Avery Adams: 21:51

And then things like holidays come up, life comes up, stress comes up. So I think you know, when people hire me they first start talking about well, they get worried if they need to take a day off or they get worried if they can't follow the program perfectly. And it's never about anyone given session, right, it's about the accumulation of those sessions. So if someone is incredibly consistent, that's fine. If life happens, we can't hide that fact. So you know, when I work with my master's clients, virtually it's hey, we just communicate all the time.

Avery Adams: 22:23

Communication is a big piece of that. We adapt like hey, if you've got surgery or you've got a meeting, then just do these two lifts, don't worry about the rest. And I think a lot of times, just as humans or athletes, we just need to hear from our coach that something is okay. So just go do your two lifts today, just warm up in squat and go enjoy your day, don't worry about it. So you know that's where having a coach is really a benefit to hear that. A lot of things that we don't want to hear. And then also, when things are okay, to skip or to just take the day off or not push through something that might be bothering you.

Danielle Spurling: 23:00

I love that perspective because I'm I work, I try to work against this, but I'm very much of the mindset If I can't do it perfectly, I won't do it. And so I love the fact that you're saying just go and do one or two exercises. I think that's great, because sometimes you can't fit in, you know the whole hour. Maybe you can only fit in 15 minutes and I think that that, being consistent over time, is going to help long term with your goals.

Avery Adams: 23:26

Yes, absolutely, and that's that's honestly how I look at training splits also. It's never about anyone given session, it's about the accumulation of all of them, of that week, of that month, of that year, of that cycle, and it just builds upon itself. So when we kind of take that bird's eye view, it alleviates some of that pressure that we put on ourselves external forces, whatever it may be. We can kind of breathe a little bit easier. And so, yes, sometimes you warm up and you squat and then you go have your brekkie and you hit your coffee and you go to work, and that's perfectly fine too.

Danielle Spurling: 24:00

What is an idea? What do you think is ideal for the amount of strength work that a Masters athlete would do each week?

Avery Adams: 24:06

Yeah, three is pretty good. Yeah, I find you know one. You can absolutely make progress with that. It's hard to kind of link it together over time, not in terms of like workout to workout, but really building a base of fitness. Two is really good for people that just can't swing it. You know what I mean. Some people have really busy jobs or lives, travel or that's all they're willing to commit and that's totally fine too. But like if we're talking perfect, I think three days a week whether it's a Monday, wednesday, friday split or Tuesday, thursday, saturday give yourself a day in between I think makes a big difference in recovery and then just also spreading the workout over the week versus kind of like front loading. I think that the consistency piece is really important, the balance of the week and never having like sharps, sharp inclines or declines. I like to steady over time.

Danielle Spurling: 24:59

So in those programs, if you're doing three sessions a week, would you program that so that you know a lot of coaches do Monday or say as upper body, wednesday as lower body, friday as power or whatever it is. Do you sort of mix them all within each program or do you have that kind of philosophy?

Avery Adams: 25:20

It depends on the individual's needs.

Avery Adams: 25:22

So in the past at the club level we did dry land six days a week so and they were 45 minute sessions. But again, kind of going back to the volume was spread out over the course of the week and there was never any heavy days that would be, but at a total body day and that's things like chump, shrugs, db snatch, Olympic lift variations. So explosive lower volume, lower reps and upper body day and a lower body day. In the last two years I've been playing with things a little bit more and where I'm starting to start folks, where I'm having a lot of success at all ages, is having like a sort of go through our warm up and that's dynamic preparation, that's our skipping, that's our coordination, those athletic foundations, and then we'll go into whatever that person needs from a mobile mobility standpoint and then we'll hit our explosive movements first and that might just be one or two exercises. Some people might be doing clean, some might be doing like a dumbbell snatch, and then we can go into more traditional strength elements. But I'm finding that sprinkling everything. So your total body, your upper body, your lower body and your core work, every session allows for volume accumulation versus session accumulation, and you don't ever mean you can't get away from soreness in some capacity, especially when it's a new program, but you're not overloading the chest, you're not overloading the legs. And so, if we look at it through the lens of developing athletes, you guys need your legs, you need to be able to go race, but that doesn't mean we can't train them. It just means we apply the appropriate volume at the right time and I'm finding that sprinkling that volume throughout the week is much better.

Avery Adams: 27:03

So you know, day one could be like our squat day and then like a body weight element after that, whether it's a reverse lunge, lateral lunge, something moving in an opposite direction versus front and back. The second day could be more power driven, like we talked about, so that might be just more jumping variations or a second squatting variation, not barbell driven, and then the third day could be just our basic body weight day. It just depends, like I said. But so you've had basically six Different exercises on the legs throughout the week, but it's not going to feel like it as much because it's spread out. So I'm really enjoying coaching, those training splits also, and the kids like it, and the master swimmers too, but it seems to work really well.

Avery Adams: 27:49

And then from the master's end of things, like I was talking about injuries come into play so they might be able to squat. They can go there four by eight or four by ten or three by six, whatever the set design is for the day. But if I add something after that then those old injuries creep up. But if I just do one really intentional set that day and then move on, they're good. So we're getting the strength component, we're getting the mobility component and addressing those individual needs.

Danielle Spurling: 28:18

You know, I think that that's important because, particularly master's athletes, if you are spreading it out into upper, lower and they miss one of those sessions, they missed that for the week. So I love, I love the idea of mixing those in so that they're, you know, consistent and if they are aiming for three but they only get two done, at least they're getting some gains from that week as well, correct?

Avery Adams: 28:39

Yeah, yeah. So I look at it as like, if it's a Pretty much every day will have like a pulling exercise. So you know, the first day might be a traditional lap pull down, the second day could be more a T-rex body rows or like gymnastic body rows, and then your third could be another single arm or double arm rows. So, like you just said, you hit the nail on the head. If we've got two sessions spot on of a pulling motion, we're not just focusing on that one day. We still get that good work in.

Danielle Spurling: 29:05

You're exactly right and when you say recovery, do you look at it as recovery from that specific? So recovery from Strengthening, dishing, but you could still be swimming on that day. Or when you talk about recovery, is it a complete rest from all activity?

Avery Adams: 29:20

I think if we break, if we set our week up correctly, I don't feel like many swimmers at any age will really need a day off. So like that's where I was talking about the Monday, wednesday, friday split. So if you're doing your strength components on those days and you've got a day off in between, you kind of, in essence, have an active recovery session just by swimming in the pool and then on top of that, if you know, let's say, like Tuesday is gonna be a big quality day but you need to lift on Monday, maybe the leg volume is a little bit less. That way you've got your legs the next day to go fast. So like I was talking about, I think training consistently is where you reap the most rewards.

Avery Adams: 29:58

But it has to blend together and being cognizant of those training splits. Like if you look at a season plan, what happens in the water also needs to pair up with what we're doing in the gym. So it's never just the same thing all year long for changing those variables in the weight room or on land or on deck, whatever that person has sometimes it's their garage gym or their living room you know it has to pair up with the water and when you look at things in that light makes a little bit easier To change the focal point to make sure that they are recovering. But in there, there are certain times there where you just got to get the work in, like you just can't hide from it Right. So early season it just is what it is. You got to bring the kick up, you got to bring the leg volume up squatting, lunging, box jumps, step ups you just have to do it. And that other times the year when it's championship season, we manipulate that volume and both ends weight room and pull to get that best result.

Danielle Spurling: 30:54

How do you stand on on the kind of strengthening dishing that's sort of coming into the pool work as well? So the the pulley, the pulley bands with the weights. I see swimmers pulling those swimming through the water. What's your sort of thought process on that?

Avery Adams: 31:11

Yeah, okay, yes, yes, yeah, no, those are great. I think I'm just like anything, you have to cycle it, and so I think this is sometimes where Program design goes wrong, when we're always training the same way all season long. So you know, certain times there my experience with towers of the buckets, like the water ones that go the full 25 I'm looking at it from like a volume perspective, like, okay, I want 20 efforts and this is a club level, like a senior level kid that's gonna say, okay, I know, I want 20 on this day for four weeks I can build that up, build that capacity up, and then I'm gonna change it to the next variable. So we're always changing the stimulus. So it's absolutely great.

Avery Adams: 31:53

I mean it's fun to. It mixes up the training and that interrobic power in the weight room you can absolutely hit it. But it's also important to transfer that to the sport that you're in. So Fins and paddles with parachutes, fins and paddles with any variable is fun and it's it's important Because we do know if you bring the power up, everything else comes with it.

Danielle Spurling: 32:16

So yeah, absolutely. And how do you sort of I Suppose there is so much happening, particularly in the strengthening conditioning world how do you sort of stay in front of all the information that's out there? Because I know myself, just looking at Instagram, for instance, there's thousands of people on there all proclaiming to be fitness gurus. Yeah, exactly the best.

Avery Adams: 32:40

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's honest, it's um. When I launched elevate, this was actually a big talking point that I had, you know, talked to coaches and families about. There is this massive overload of fitness, everything at our fingertips. Coaches are confused, parents are confused, kids are confused, everyone is just it's. We're all inundated and overloaded with this stimulus of information. Honestly, I ignore most of it. I've, and I guess because I've been doing this long enough to know what Information is important to grab and what's not. Now, some of the what's not really comes down to personal philosophy at times, but One of my biggest mentors, vern Gambetta, like, is pretty well known throughout the world. I came into meeting him and learning about him and working with him at the right point in my career where I was like at this, I Just trying to figure out my way right, and he started talking about movements, not muscles, mastering movements being patient progression, and so a lot of times, people are looking for this 1%, this cherry on top exercise, but the reality is that most athletes and swimmers of all ages still can't squat, still can't do a pull-up, still can't move laterally. So I think it's important for coaches to be self-aware Enough to say well, I'm getting sucked into this because it's really exciting and there's nothing wrong with that because I remember those days. But now, as I'm moving along in my career, now it's way more specific. Like, if I feel like I need a little bit more T-spine Variation, that I'm like, okay, I'm gonna go to this guy and I'm gonna grab one exercise to bring into my program, whether it's for a team or an individual, and Then I'm gonna step back and I'm gonna stop looking, because I think that's another thing that coaches and swimmers alike, parents to keep grabbing Information and you never have this opportunity to step back. You know, take a deep breath, absorb, contemplate and see how it fits your program. So it's important for everyone out there that's listening, like you know. Come to my page, come check stuff out.

Avery Adams: 34:56

I'm not real flashy, I'm pretty boring, honestly, but For, like I said, most of the people out there, just mastering these foundational elements at all ages Will catapult them forward well beyond what they thought was possible, versus trying to jump into an Olympic lift right away. So a lot of this is removing our own ego and thinking that flash is better, or more is better or new is better. But it's like you know, the dumbbell snatch, for example, like I think that was invented in 1908 and it might even be before that. I think that was just the first publication of these lifts and it's like the movements and exercises. I kind of look at it more as a movement versus an exercise, but the ones that have stood the test of time are the most relevant.

Avery Adams: 35:43

So I think it's important to just be willing to step back and Only add what's necessary at the right point in time. So you know, at any age, if I'm looking at a short course season or a long course season, you might only get Let me think of the best would articulate it six upper body exercises for the whole year. Because I think what people forget too is when you go and grab this exercise from wherever, it may be good, bad, whatever you have to take the time to teach it. The athlete has to take time to accumulate and adapt to that stimulus and get comfortable with the lift. And then you've got to bring it from your foundational cycle, your early season cycle, into whether it's like capacity work or like four or five exercises, into endurance, into power. So one exercise should last you an entire season. You just cycle it differently. So I guess all that to say patience and only grabbing what's necessary and being willing to just teach the basics first, is what's gonna lead to the best results.

Danielle Spurling: 36:54

I love that You've just sort of mentioned that. In a nutshell, it's that kiss principle keep it simple, stupid.

Avery Adams: 37:00

Yeah, yes, I think that's a cornerstone of all good programs really.

Avery Adams: 37:06

Absolutely, and I think you find the coaches that have been in their given field sport the longest have the most simple programs, but it's oh gosh, what's the phrase? Simplicity yields complexity. So we see this simple movement, but it's how it's being used. The context is everything. So we see these basic programs and they're like this is nothing, this isn't gonna be elite, when all in reality it's like we know the basics in the pool are what separate good from the elite. The ability to stay underwater, to know their stroke count, to change tempo all these things are pretty basic but they're really hard to do.

Danielle Spurling: 37:50

I mean, I love the sound of the fact that you've got this sort of platform in this website where people can go and sort of connect with you. They can be any corner of the world and you can work with them on all these things, because I think that, as you say, there is so much information out there and just a bit of a helping hand in your corner is something that's really good. Do you sort of take on an unlimited amount of people? How do you sort of decide who's gonna come on your website and work with you?

Avery Adams: 38:21

Yeah, that's a great question. My model is much different, and so if someone were to check out my website and that's elevatetheprocesscom, and I'm so process driven, so I only take on five or six virtual clients at any given point, and so my thought process with that is people have really mattered to me and people are coming to me for guidance, and so a coach has to bear that weight and recognize that that person is a human being that's looking for guidance first. I don't look at people as dollar signs, so I'm like, okay, I'm gonna take on five to six, because this is a number of clients that I can manage at a really high level and still address these other parts of my business. And so when people come to me, they get quality 100% of the time. And it's the same, for I only take on three teams at a time, so I take on a X number of clients in person. So I've managed this workload to make sure quality never suffers, and so, yeah, that's how I do things.

Avery Adams: 39:25

So if someone's reaching out, it's because they want to learn, they're willing to be patient, like if someone's coming to me looking for a really rapid, quick fix, it may not be the best fit Now, if we're willing to have a conversation every Friday and let's put a season plan together, like let's be on the same page and make this thing a long-term relationship, then those are the people that last I mean and that stick around with me. I mean, most of my clients have been with me especially my first people over a year, so it's like I think that longevity is really important.

Danielle Spurling: 40:03

Yeah, no, I love that philosophy and I love the fact that I'm figuring out that you love planning, I love planning.

Avery Adams: 40:11

I do, yeah, and there's, you know, with that, it's like I get really excited about those things because it just makes sense to me. My dad is, for all intents and purposes, an engineer. My brother also kind of has the same kind of mindset. But, you know, sometimes these plans you have to change and you have to be willing to change. So, like I enjoy putting the plan together and then being able to adapt on the fly is another really important component, cause, like we said, if this life variable gets thrown into things and we missed the gym for a couple of days, okay, well, how do we adapt and how does the big picture shift? We move, volume here, volume here, exercise there. So I think it's just the puzzle pieces that are the most exciting to me and so, like I said, I'm willing to. There's been times I've had to just throw plans right out the window, and that's perfectly fine. So I love planning, but I'm also willing to adapt and be flexible.

Danielle Spurling: 41:05

Yeah, and I think any good coach is, so that's. I can see how passionate you are about it which I love oh thank you. Now everyone that comes on the podcast, I like to ask them deep dive five questions. A bit of it's a snapshot about your coaching, so give us your. I know you said you don't like to pick out one, but give us your favorite strength and conditioning exercise for master swimmers.

Avery Adams: 41:31

Honestly, the most applicable are still squats and pull-ups. You know, like the, and let's just go push up to like those three, like, if you get really good at those, you can really build upon that. So I'm going to give you three as one.

Danielle Spurling: 41:46

And, as a coach on pool deck, what's your favorite freestyle drill to give your athletes?

Avery Adams: 41:52

Yeah, so one of my favorite drills is a combination of a few things we all kind of know are six kick switch and our single arm drills. I combine both of those so, like just picture, you're doing right arm, only left arm at your side, you take your one stroke cycle, spear and reach, roll to your side and treat it just like a six kick switch and then you take your whole stroke and you rotate on that axis to the opposite side. So it teaches connection front to back, it teaches connection to the hip out front and it gives swimmers a better awareness of that axis side to side. So it's kind of a combination drill that I use a lot.

Danielle Spurling: 42:32

That sounds like a good one. Yeah, I like that.

Avery Adams: 42:34

Yeah, I need to film that. I think I've got some video and I'll send it over to you.

Danielle Spurling: 42:38

Yeah, yeah, definitely. What about your favorite US swimming pool?

Avery Adams: 42:45

So I'm blanking on the name, but it's in Austin, texas. They host nationals there. It's basically a high school based facility, but it's outdoor 50 meter arena, grandstands on both sides, they have protection from the sun, and then you've got a dive well, so Olympic dive, well. And then inside there's a whole other 50 meter pool and since San Antonio, I'm totally blanking on the name, but that's one of my favorites by far and I'm sure people will probably know which one I'm talking about. It's just really hot there in the summer.

Danielle Spurling: 43:24

Oh, yes, yeah, you do get some hot summers there, don't you?

Avery Adams: 43:27

Yes, and that's in Texas, so I get just it's brutal yeah.

Danielle Spurling: 43:33

And how about your favorite pre-race meal?

Avery Adams: 43:38

So I'm really simple with this one. I think eat normally which you normally eat, so things that are easy to digest and actually I've just had a conversation on this very topic but things like jasmine rice and a protein and a simple fat so your olive oil or your avocado, whatever that may be things that the stomach can handle pretty well. Now, if it's like the morning of, believe it or not, I still have people Some of my athletes will eat like a half cup of rice honey and then like a scoop of like a whey isolate. That's really easy to digest, so we get all these carbs in very, very easily and a protein on top of it without feeling really heavy. So if it's in the morning, it's something like that or a oatmeal traditional. But I try to keep things as light and as digestible as possible.

Danielle Spurling: 44:25

How about a middle distance training set?

Avery Adams: 44:28

So it depends on what energy system we're targeting, but 2100s on two minutes heart rate, 30 to 32 in 10 seconds or up to like 180. So max VO2 or aerobic capacity or blue, it depends on what you're talking about. But yeah, freestylers, that's a great set Free and back is really good there too.

Danielle Spurling: 44:54

That's certainly going to get that heart rate up nice and high.

Avery Adams: 44:57

Yes, yes, I mean, and MVO2 is one of the probably most understood training components in the sport. Like, I see a lot of things that say they're MVO2, but it's really not, and so that's going to be exactly where we want to be in certain times of the year.

Danielle Spurling: 45:12

Well, Avery, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. It's been lovely connecting with you and hearing all about your coaching and your strength and conditioning work, and we'll put the notes sorry, the link to your website in the show notes so people can check that out and have a look and contact you if they feel like they would like to.

Avery Adams: 45:32

Awesome, that sounds great. Thank you so much for having me. I had a good time.

Danielle Spurling: 45:36

Yeah, you're welcome. Have a lovely evening

Avery Adams: 45:42

You too, thank you.

Danielle Spurling: 45:43

OK, take care.

Avery Adams: 45:45

You too, bye, bye.

Danielle Spurling: 45:46

Bye, take care, bob. I hope you enjoyed my chat with Avery as much as I enjoyed speaking to him. I really enjoy speaking to people about the scientific side of exercise and finding out all different ways. Everyone brings something different to the table, so it's great to have these experts on here talking with us and finding out how we can improve our master swimming. One thing that always comes through is that you really need to include strength and conditioning in your program each week. So hopefully you'll take something away about my chat with Avery today and I'll make sure that his details are in the show notes of the podcast and you can get in touch with him to find out any more about what he offers, because he works with athletes all around the world.

Danielle Spurling: 46:30

Today's episode was brought to you by Amanzi Swim and the Magic Five. I would like to thank them both for supporting the podcast. I use both of their products. A lot of bathers from Amanzi and I use them all the time. They're colorful, they're long-lasting. I love them. That's why I recommend them to people if they ever ask what bathers I use. And the Magic Five goggles are fantastic because they're really designed to fit my face. Check them both out, with their links in the show notes Till next time, happy swimming and bye for now.