Torpedo Swimtalk Podcast with Alia Atkinson - on being a 5 time Jamaican Olympian, author and her role at World Aquatics

Join us on this episode of Torpedo Swimtalk Podcast as we dive deep into the swimming journey of five-time Olympian Alia Atkinson. Considered the finest swimmer to have emerged from Jamaica, her journey is one of resilience, perseverance, and an indefatigable spirit that has taken her to the pinnacle of international swimming. We chat about her vibrant career, discussing the nuances of swimming culture in Jamaica and the US and her phenomenal feats, such as her historic victory at the 2014 FINA World Short-Course Champs.

Alia's recollection of her Olympic experiences will inspire you, including her memorable 100 breaststroke race at the 2012 London Olympics and the demanding training regimes she conquered to secure her success. As she reveals the gritty tale of her Olympic semifinal swim-off and her triumphant place in the final race, you'll discover the steely resolve of an athlete at the apex of her career. This episode will also take you behind the scenes of the Masters World Champs, where Alia and I reflect on the awe-inspiring dedication of swimmers spanning from budding juniors to those in their golden years.

Our conversation takes an empowering turn as we explore Alia's role in the Whatabound foundation, a mentorship program that’s creating waves with its transformative impact on swimmers of all levels. She opens up about the evolution of the program, the challenges and opportunities of social media, and her book, "Day One, Not 1 Day" which is brimming with actionable tips for goal achievement. With her invaluable advice for breaststrokers and favourite training sets, you'll be all set to dive into your own swimming journey with renewed vigor.

Be ready to be inspired by Alia's undying passion for swimming and the riveting stories that make her an emblem of determination and success. So tighten your goggles and get ready for a deep plunge into this enthralling episode.

Connect with Alia:
WATABOUND mentoring program details
Grab yourself a copy of Alia's book  - "Day one not 1 day"

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Torpedo Swimtalk is sponsored by AMANZI SWIMWEAR

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Transcript

Danielle Spurling: 0:05

Hello Swimmers and welcome to another episode of Torpedo Swim Talk podcast. I'm your host, Danielle Spurling, and each week we chat to a swimmer from around the world about their swimming journey. I'm joined on the podcast today by the delightful five-time Jamaican Olympian, Alia Atkinson. We chatted about the longevity in her swimming career, her tips on switching between short course and long course meters and her work as the Athlete's Chair for World Aquatics. Let's hear from Alia now. Hi Alia, welcome to the podcast. Hi, thank you for having me. You're really welcome. I know you were born in Jamaica, but where are you living now?

Alia Atkinson: 0:57

I'm in Orlando Florida.

Danielle Spurling: 0:59

Okay, and have you been there a while.

Speaker 3: 1:02

I trained in South Florida for a little bit and then, when I retired from swimming, my relatives actually lived in Florida, in Orlando, so I just moved that to be a little bit closer.

Danielle Spurling: 1:13

What do you find is the difference between the swimming culture in Jamaica and in the US?

Speaker 3: 1:18

The swimming culture in Jamaica is. That's a very good question. So in Jamaica it's very developmental. So right now we'll have a few that do it because of recreational if they can. Most likely the upper class Few see the need to get their children so learn to swim. Programs are pretty, they're coming about and they could be better as anything. But besides that I think the difference would be in the US swimming is like a job. I think the kids know the routine, they know they have school and swimming and then school and swimming, but they're dedicated and the coaches are dedicated. So I think that's the difference. The mindset is different and the dedication level. It's easier to fuel somebody when you have so much going on with competitions and training gears when in Jamaica you really have to fight for a lot of those things and it makes you lose that motivation really quick.

Danielle Spurling: 2:15

So what ignited your passion to get involved in swimming in Jamaica?

Speaker 3: 2:20

Well, we started with a learn to swim. My parents made sure that at least all their children you have to swim, and then we went into the track routes. It didn't really fit. And then swimming was just something that we did for the summers and we got to choose which sport we wanted to continue in and we did for swimming. So that really was just my background story. It was just lucky. I want to say that it worked out for me. But, yeah, swimming was really fun. I didn't have to sweat, I didn't have to run, so it checked all my boxes.

Danielle Spurling: 2:54

You made history by becoming the first person of colour to achieve a swimming world title or world record at the FINA World Short-Cost Champs in 2014. I wanted to play you this little commentary at the end of your race and then get your thoughts.

Alia Atkinson: 3:10

The first round by the girl from Jamaica, but it's Melliotinder of Lithuania. Just on the 25th of swim and she turns behind Litchford, Jackinson, Adkinson, this could be a war line. The Melliotinder in front, Adkinson doing a bit Melliotinder, stupid.

Danielle Spurling: 3:39

She's the world record.

Alia Atkinson: 3:45

Equal equals the world record. Fantastic swimming there for Melliotinder.

Speaker 3: 3:54

She couldn't believe it.

Danielle Spurling: 3:55

This couldn't believe she'd won what a reaction from Alia Adkinson. Her turns were better than Ruta and Melliotita. Ruta's swimming was a bit quicker, but she felt the pressure on her shoulder, didn't she? And Alia Adkinson just went for it. Absolutely tremendous. I just watched that little clip on you Tube and you didn't realise that she'd won and broken the world record, did she? No, no.

Speaker 3: 4:28

That was a unique event because in the 50 I got and touched out when I thought I had won and, funny enough, in the 100 I thought the same thing had happened. So I actually looked at the scoreboard and looked for a second and I was like, oh, that's interesting.

Alia Atkinson: 4:45

I don't think I got third.

Speaker 3: 4:48

It was a very delayed reaction. Because of that. What I just showed my mentality was I really wanted to persevere. Especially the 50 was a pretty big defeat for me because especially when you touch and you thought you had won, so I think this was just pure jubilation. So many things can happen, all the stars can be aligned, you could be feeling your best and it still doesn't happen. So for all the things to happen and you didn't check all the boxes, it was a really good experience.

Danielle Spurling: 5:18

Yeah, you had a lovely seeing your delight in realising what you'd accomplished. It was so happy. I loved seeing that. Yeah, what did you do differently leading up to that 100? I know you said that you were disappointed with the 50, but your training must have been really great before that competition. What did you do? What did you feel you did that helped that win?

Speaker 3: 5:42

Yeah, the 50 was the best time. So, in all honesty, I can't be upset at the 50. It was just that expectation. So I decided for the 100, not to have any expectations. I was going to swim the best race and I was going to make sure that, no matter what, I was my biggest fan. No matter who was sharing, no matter who was beside me, no matter what was going on, I was going to cheer and support myself throughout the entire 100.

Danielle Spurling: 6:04

And I think that's what it is.

Speaker 3: 6:05

That's what. That was the difference on the blocks. It was just all right, who am I taking down? Rather than all right, am I going to win? Like what's going to happen? I have to make sure I have my perfect race I'm going to. I'm thinking about all the little things that could go wrong, that are out of your control. It just changed me All right, I'm taking somebody down. Who is it? Let's find out.

Danielle Spurling: 6:23

I love that mindset. That's really good, is that? Is that quite a different mindset to other races that you had before that, where you, you thought about all the small things?

Speaker 3: 6:34

Yes, I think I battled with that a lot throughout my career. Because you work on it and you know that's something that if you get it right you'll have a great race. You focus on it and you hamper on it for so long that it starts to stress you out and the anxiety turns into something that you don't need before a race. So for me, throughout the latter part of my careers, it was about enjoying the experience. After a certain point, shutting off the mind and letting the body take over, but also just enjoying. I think I was in my head a lot and I micro. I focused on the little things that I could have done. Even if it was a great race. I'm like, oh, that turn could have been better, and so I focused on that rather than the rest of the swim and how great that was. So I changed my perspective. I changed the race into more of an optimistic point of view. I gave myself like 30 minutes to be alright, have that criticism, and then that was it, and then I moved on.

Danielle Spurling: 7:34

It definitely worked because, particularly that last turn in that 100, you went into the turn slightly behind and you came up equal or just in front. It was an amazing turn.

Speaker 3: 7:45

Yeah, my pullouts are pretty well known in the swimming world, so it was really cool to actually show what it looks like, because usually everybody is pulling out together and you could see, oh, ali has a good one because he's out ahead, but when you see me coming from behind, you really see how much distance I can gain on the pullouts. So that was really interesting, because that's when it kicked in again and he's like all right, who am I taking down? Here we come, and so, yeah, it was a really good feeling.

Danielle Spurling: 8:13

Yeah, absolutely. Do you think your time spent swimming in the NCAAs and focusing on the short-cost yards and the turns that that obviously has helped you in short-cost meters? What have you taken from that time that you put into that professional swimming career?

Speaker 3: 8:32

Yeah, I think for me with college, with short-course, it really helped to build the walls. I really got into the rhythm of like, all right, six strokes, all right, seven strokes. I got into that rhythm. So when I transferred that into short-course meters for the first time in 2013, when I went to the World Cups, I found that same similarity and my body could adjust a lot easier because I love the walls. So, yeah, I found that's really where my niche was and I really think the main thing that helped were World Cups. It was eight different countries within two to three months and just the battle of no matter how you're feeling, you have to get in there and race, because now you're racing for some sort of financial, sub-financial gain or you're going to come on in the red for paying all the way to get there. So I think because of that, it really pushed a pressure in me but also not to focus on physically how you're doing, just mentally be ready, regardless of how your body is feeling.

Danielle Spurling: 9:30

Yeah, that's really good advice, because you don't always feel sparkling when you get up for a race, do you?

Speaker 3: 9:36

Not at all. Majority of the time, not when you get older.

Danielle Spurling: 9:39

Yeah, how did you find the recovery from those kind of World Cups back to back like that in between as you were getting older as an athlete?

Speaker 3: 9:48

Yeah, I think World Aquatics made a decision to change the number of events you could enter. First of all, at the beginning it was anything, so I was in like eight events prelims and finals so it was 16 races in the two days. So they changed that over the years so it turned into five and then eventually three. So I didn't have to make that decision, but World Aquatics did. But I think I enjoyed it because it gave me a lot more time to have that relaxation without the pressure of, oh, I need to swim this, I need to swim this. Now I was being told to not only specialize in three, and it worked out.

Speaker 3: 10:26

In 2018, I was able to break the World Record and I think if I had kept up that hard regiment, as I did in 2013, maybe it wouldn't have happened, because I didn't like to feel that I was getting older, I didn't like to experience okay, I need more rest. But my mind's telling me no, you can do it. And my body's like why do you touch me? I know, and so they were clashing a lot. So, yeah, it was a ride.

Danielle Spurling: 10:51

And how did you find that sort of transfer of those skills that you're great at in short course meters into long course? What did you have to change in your breaststroke? Obviously, the stroke in the lab. But what else did you have to focus on?

Speaker 3: 11:06

Yeah, so we tried to. It's hard to transition because now your body is used to that six to eight strokes and then a turn, and now it's more like 17 to 18, if you're lucky for the first 50. So it was a lot more yardage, it was a lot more repetition at a high tempo that the body wasn't used to In any given hundred maybe you have like 32. And now you're really just you're out there for probably about 50 to 60 plus in strokes. So it's trying to keep that same tempo, trying to be able to get where you need to be and also move a little bit ahead. It was hard to find that in short course. So for me, going into long course was a whole learning experience all over again. So, yeah, it was difficult, but I think I was able to succeed sometimes in those competitions. And then there are others that I wish there was a turn in the middle of the pool, but there was not. Well, yeah, it was a learning experience. I really did enjoy it for short course.

Danielle Spurling: 12:16

Yeah, yeah, obviously, but you were very successful in the long course as well. I mean, you came fourth in London in 2012 Olympics. That was an amazing race. Can you talk us through that race and tell us how you felt about it?

Speaker 3: 12:30

Oh my gosh. If you allow me, I'll tell the whole story. So in 2010, in 2010, I graduated from Texas A&M University and I decided to dedicate the next two years to being a pro and if I did not get third, second or first, I was going to retire in 2012. So I pushed those. Two years before, in Beijing, I think I got 25th in the 200 breaststroke. So this is an unbelievable goal. Like it made no sense whatsoever and I said no, I'm getting top three. So I dedicated those two years to training. I didn't taper at all and just train for those entire two years and then I ended up winning the heat. I ended up winning the semifinals but getting I tied for eighth for finals. So that night of the semifinals we had to do a sum off, and I've never heard of a sum off at the Olympics before probably because they don't televised it, but I've never heard of it either. So I was like, oh, we do this. You can't just give me lane zero, we're actually doing this. So we did the sum off and I remember they were talking with the coach. My coach was talking with the other Summers coach and the other Summers is primarily a 200 breaststroker and I'm primarily a 50 and 100. So the idea was that they can do it in the afternoon because she's just getting warmed up. She can go one of sevens back to back, whereas Alias is sprinter. She needs a long more time to recover.

Speaker 3: 13:52

But in 2010, I had just won the 200 breaststroke at NCAAs, so I was still in pretty good shape. So we ended up swimming at that night, thinking that this is a disadvantage for me. I know it ended up really well. I did the fastest time I did for the entire four rounds and I ended up getting into finals. So for me it was like okay, yeah, I felt like that was my Olympic debut, but I had to refocus and be like no, we still have finals, there's still another big chunk in front of you.

Speaker 3: 14:21

And when I found that race, it was just, I was just elated to be there, but at the same time, it was the same idea, like all right, who am I taking down? I can't believe I'm in this final. And I ended up getting four and the first move out third was in lane one and I was in lane eight, so I would have never seen her from like at all, and it was point three. I think point three, five was a difference. So I was like, huh, I was really close Like this unbelievable goal that I never thought I would actually achieve. I was pretty close so that, yeah, so that pushed me into not retiring at 2012 and continuing to see what else was in store for me.

Danielle Spurling: 15:00

What a great story Was the Beijing Games. You've been to five Olympics. Congratulations on that amazing, amazing feat. Was that the the sort of the pinnacle for you in the Olympic Games, or what was your best performance?

Speaker 3: 15:15

So 2012 Olympics in London at the fourth place was my best. Yes, In Rio I made finals again, but I didn't beat the fourth place. Yeah, and the other three. I had appearances, but not not again in finals.

Danielle Spurling: 15:31

And what was your? What was your favorite of the five in terms of the atmosphere and the culture that you got to experience between the five different Olympics?

Speaker 3: 15:42

So each one is so different and unique. I would say I loved 2012 because, one, the Olympic experience was fantastic, because I made it to finals for the first time at that full experience. But one, it was an English speaking country so it was easier to tour and I got to visit all the different countries yeah, all the different countries close to close to England, but besides UK and 2012. I really enjoyed Athens, which was my first one, because I got to see all the big celebrities for the first time and be like, oh, this is where they are, like Yao Ming and the William Sisters, and like, oh, my word. So that was really exciting.

Speaker 3: 16:25

And just to see the history of ancient Greece and the Parthenon and stuff, it was really nice. Everything is great because you had China and then you had the great wall of China, and then Rio was fantastic as well, just to immerse yourself in the Brazilian culture. I think Japan would have been my favorite if we were able to leave the village, but unfortunately with COVID it was very restricted. So the village was fantastic and the people were fantastic. So if that is an indicator of what it would have been like, it would have been great. But yeah, I think it's a little special for each thought.

Danielle Spurling: 17:01

Yeah, of course yeah, and the villages would have been completely different on each of the five Olympics.

Speaker 3: 17:08

Oh yes, oh yes. Athens was like 04, so it was pretty small still. They had lots of amenities, which were great. China, in Beijing, they started with the whole technological stuff. So games started to come out about the sports. It was really cool to pretend like you know, the Wii Fit and the thing. All that started to come out. And then in London I don't remember London much because I was out, I didn't have to say in the village as much, so that was really interesting as well. And in Japan it was technology, city, robots and different things. It was really cool.

Danielle Spurling: 17:46

Why didn't you stay in the village in London? So, because my one that's hmm, in London.

Speaker 3: 17:52

My mother was able to attend that, so I was able to go out and visit with her and visit different sites a lot. Yeah, and Hundred Breastrope is like the second event. So after the third day I was pretty much done. Yeah, so I think because of that I was an English-speaking country. I feel like I could just jump on a plane and go to Wales. Sorry, jump on a train and go to.

Danielle Spurling: 18:13

Wales, I'm glad you mentioned Japan, actually because I wanted to talk about your recent trip to Japan, because now that you're you finished your professional career, you've moved into a role with World Aquatics on the Athletes Commission. Can you tell us a little bit about that and what the role involves, and how was the trip to Japan?

Speaker 3: 18:31

Yes, I was privileged to be a member of the English-speaking and privileged enough to be appointed the Athlete Chairperson for World Aquatics, and it was really cool. Japan was the first big role for all the different disciplines. So underneath World Aquatics we have high diving, diving, open water swimming, artistic swimming and water polo, so it was very interesting to learn the other sports, get to hear their trials and revelations. I'm in front of swimming world and swimming perspective so I know the troubles with the sports. But to hear what's going on in the artistic world and what's going on in the water polo world Really just a fun experience. I got to be there for the entire two weeks for the seniors or for the other groups, and then the masters at the end of it, and so we have this huge project with the masters of trying to have a better relationship between elite and masters.

Speaker 3: 19:32

So yeah, I think it. We went in there with a mission. I think it was more eye-opening for us. So moving forward for Doha next year will be a much better, a much better plan out the door, I think, for us. But yeah, it was a really great experience. It's fantastic to learn all the politics behind swimming and world aquatics and sports. Oh, my word, I didn't even know all this, but it really is interesting.

Danielle Spurling: 19:58

Yeah, I can imagine. I can imagine so the role of the Athletes Chair. Is it mainly when there's a big competition like that on, or do you do work in the background leading up to that? Can you explain a little bit about that?

Speaker 3: 20:11

So it's a four year position, so I'm on sale 2025. We have about 30 members right now, so majority of them are active. So they're able to go to the different competitions. They're usually there already and they will be able to provide feedback about how it's going, how the athletes think it's going, how the administrator administration is working, if it's something going in the right direction for oarsport or other members are able to travel. So if there's a competition like junior world going on in Israel, somebody from that location will be able to just have an easier flight than me coming from the Americas and heading over there. So, yeah, I think it really works out. In Australia we have two. We have Jessica Hansen for swimming and Daniel Kowalski for swimming as well. So it's a lot easier when we have those top named swimmers in the country. That's able to go to the nationals, see how it's going, go to international competitions and travel. With information that works at home Can we make it work at the international scene and vice versa.

Danielle Spurling: 21:11

Going back to the swimming part of the world Chance, what events impressed you the most?

Speaker 3: 21:16

Ooh there is a lot. I didn't go to Budapest, I didn't go to the last Budapest, so I haven't seen a swimming competition long course since Olympics in 2021. But to sit there in the stands for the first time and just looking down, it was super fast Like almost every race was like oh competition record, oh championship record, oh continental record, world record.

Speaker 3: 21:45

It was just like so many. I am partial to the brushwork events, so definitely Ruta in the 50 breast and also the male Chinese swimmer was fantastic 50-50, I think. Oh my gosh, oh my gosh. So it was really exciting to see where the future of the sport is going and how young they are and how much years they have left to really improve the sport.

Danielle Spurling: 22:10

Did you have a little bit of an itch when you're in the stands watching Ruta win that? No, you didn't.

Speaker 3: 22:18

Not one bit. That's good, then. I think I got out of the good time.

Danielle Spurling: 22:25

You did, you did, did you? You feel like it was the right time to get out?

Speaker 3: 22:29

I think so. A lot of people ask me those questions. I know I have no itch, no burning desire to jump back in to go do those laps, because that's what I remember. Yes, there was a glory. Yes, all the fan fairs really great, the medals, your anthem, all that is fantastic. But I also remember the five AMs in the cool water for two hours every single day and that keeps me grounded.

Danielle Spurling: 22:55

I'm like no, you saw all those master swimmers at the World Champs. Afterwards were you impressed with the fact that they're still going. Some of them are into their 80s, 90s. They're still training. They're still getting up on the block diving in. What was your perspective? Seeing the Masters World Champs?

Speaker 3: 23:13

I met a lovely couple, a lovely couple from Canada, and her husband is deaf.

Speaker 3: 23:20

He's deaf and he just loves to travel and swim, and so we were going through the whole background trying to get him trying to get the officials to notify that he's deaf so they can correspond and then tap him when the marker is going to go because he can't see the light. It was a whole ordeal, but what was really impressive was he just wanted to swim and it took him a little while to get across the pool but he enjoyed every stroke and he was so tired when he finished. I think he was 89. He was so tired when he finished but he was so happy that he did it. And so I look at that and I said, ok, in a couple years, maybe in a couple decades, maybe I look at it.

Speaker 3: 24:03

But even from the UK I saw a couple of swimmers in their 40s. I think there were 40 to 45 age group and they were super fast. Like I don't think with six months training maybe I could pull off that time. It was really impressive. Just the dedication that these master swimmers are going through, that they do every single day. It really is inspiring, it really is yeah.

Danielle Spurling: 24:29

Yeah, was that the first master's competition that you'd seen? That was the first. That was the first Because it's very big. It's very big in the US, master swimming. Yeah, I'm sure there's a local club near you where you could go and have a swim.

Speaker 3: 24:47

Why thank you when you're ready?

Danielle Spurling: 24:51

I'm ready. So when you retired at 33, beyond your swimming career you've one of the things you've done, and I see that you're wearing your t-shirt you created a foundation called Whatabound. Can you tell us a little bit about that and why that came about and what you're doing?

Speaker 3: 25:08

Yeah, so Whatabound started in my latter career, the latter part of my career. It was supposed to be an online medium. I want to say that would help bring light to all the swimmers of minority, all the minority swimmers around the world. So, learning about the struggles of what a girl in Bahrain is doing, or somebody from Sudan or somebody from Owanda, and just listening to their stories to say that, yes, we did take a long time to get here, but we are all here and, even though it's a big world, we are all very part of this very small world of swimming and we can come together through this medium. So that's originally what it started about, as well as to highlight some of the past people of color and what they have done for the sport.

Speaker 3: 25:57

Already, as I continue with that, I realize that I'm not very committed to social media, so I tried to branch it out more into swimkinics, something that I really do enjoy. So, yes, so I started to do more swimkinics, I started to travel a little bit more and just share my experiences and share my tips and some analysis and techniques and, yeah, I really did enjoy that. So that's what Whatabound really started off as, and, as I'm finishing now it's kind of merging everything together. Right now I do have the time, so I'm able to create a mentoring program. So right now, whatabound is a mentoring program? So we go over swim analysis, education, psychology, part of it, nutrition, everything that will make you the best that you can be to achieving your goals.

Speaker 3: 26:46

So with that, I'm able to do the swimkinics, I'm able to talk to the athletes, I'm able to meet people who just want to be better, whether you're not an athlete. I'm able to reach out to master's and be like hey, what's the thing that's troubling you? From starting masters? You always say you want to get up early, like what is it? And I'm really finding the background and the basis of what is it that is creating this challenge and the obstacle in front of you. So yeah, so we're moving into that part. Because of that, we also created the book Day One, not One Day, and that really encompasses about seven tips that I feel are very common challenges that people have in reaching a goal, and it's basically addressing it, trying to find out what our weaknesses are, defeat the doubt that sometimes comes up and puts a blocking front of us and allows us to regain the confidence that we need to pursue our goals.

Danielle Spurling: 27:38

So is that book aimed at age groupers, or is it all the way through the spectrum?

Speaker 3: 27:44

Yes, it's all the way through the spectrum. It's written for 13 to 18 because of the swimming examples, but the entire book is basically for anybody who loves sports, anybody who wants an athletic mindset, anybody who has a goal and they don't know how to achieve it. We also have a goal assessment at the end and my aunt actually took it and she really enjoyed it because it allowed her to do her daily process of OK, I want to lose weight, I want to do this, what am I going to do each day to reach there? So it's any goal that you have in mind. You don't know where to start, because when we look at a goal, we get very overwhelmed sometimes, like I don't know how to reach there. But if we can break it down and start from one step, then we can get there. But we can't do it one day. We have to do it today, which is day one.

Danielle Spurling: 28:30

Yeah, I think that's good advice, and obviously coming from all your experience, because swimming is very goal-orientated, isn't it? It is.

Speaker 3: 28:39

It is. You need that goal to remind you why you're getting up in the morning, why you're jumping into this cold water.

Danielle Spurling: 28:46

And I wanted to. Obviously, you've had such success as a breaststroker, and I always think of breaststroke as one of the most technical strokes in our sport. Were you always a natural breaststroker or did you work at getting to be a breaststroker?

Speaker 3: 28:59

No, I was actually a freestyler and flyer up until 13. And then, for some reason, at 13, I went into a breaststroke event and it all just clicked and I was like, oh, is this what you?

Speaker 3: 29:14

were talking about coach and he's like, yeah, that's what I was talking about this whole time. So yeah, strangely enough it just clicked. But my age group coach always believed that we specialize later on, so we always did a whole background of events. So I was in anything from the mile all the way down to the 50, and then all the foreign jams and two flies and whole smorgasbord of things. So it was really interesting when that breaststroke actually clicked.

Danielle Spurling: 29:40

And what do you see is the most important parts for people who want to improve their breaststroke? What sort of advice can you give all those listening?

Speaker 3: 29:47

I would say if you want to improve your breaststroke, it is about body positioning and rhythm. Sometimes you go a little bit too fast because we want to get across, but if we slow it down and take our time then you can feel that rhythm. If you do it enough times, the rhythm will become natural and then you can see when you're supposed to start your catch. When the head lifts, when you throw it, when the shoulders roll, the hips go up and you get into that nice undulation to get a great kick that will enhance the streamline and you really feel that glide.

Speaker 3: 30:19

A lot of the times we miss that glide and I think it's because something is happening, whether the front half is not attaching to the back half, something with the hips and the undulation. So I would say slow it down, videotape yourself and see what you're missing if you don't glide as much and you can see that you're not catching as much if your legs aren't turned out as much, and see where it is. You can usually visually see it, but you can also go underwater as well. If you're lucky enough to have a partner or video underwater, you can see it from the underwater viewing as well.

Danielle Spurling: 30:47

Did you ever use any of those little tempo things that you can pop on your goggles?

Speaker 3: 30:53

I tried it once. It was really great for holding tempo for breaststroke, like for pace sets. I think I got annoyed with it after maybe 30 minutes I was like why is this thing still leaping at me? So I never relied too much on it. My coach and I were very we pushed counting a lot, so we counted our strokes that right now, even if I swim a 50, subconsciously I would know how many strokes I did. So with that I was able to hold tempo. I was able to know where I am give or take with the stroke counts in relationship to the time and that really helps a lot.

Danielle Spurling: 31:34

That's really great to know that you're doing those strokes, you've got that time and you don't even need to look at the clock. That's fantastic. Did you ever carry any injuries from swimming?

Speaker 3: 31:46

Not any major injuries. I was very blessed not to have a major injury. I think I had a tear in the labrum at one time and I took three months off and rested and just did kick and gym work and I was able to be okay to continue. I do have subluxation, which are the shoulders semi-come out of their shoulder blades Not a full dislocation but semi. But if I do rehab and I keep on top of it then it doesn't happen. But I only remember to do that. When it does happen I'm like oh no, but yeah, besides that and the minor injuries here and there that came along with each, I was very blessed.

Danielle Spurling: 32:27

Yeah, that's good to hear, Very good to hear, and I know you just mentioned in the gym. What specifically did you do for breaststroke, for strengthening up in the gym, because it's slightly different to freestyle and backstroke with the leg power?

Speaker 3: 32:43

Yeah, for breaststroke. We try to emulate as much of the stuff that we do in the pool, in the gym. So anything with cords. It wasn't just pulling through, it was trying to get the whole rhythm oh, my arms are gone. It was trying to get the whole rhythm, to get the underwater pull out, try and get the grab. So everything that we did in the gym, whether it was with weights or body weights or just with the tubing, we tried to emulate how it would feel in the pool. And throughout the latter parts of my career we definitely played around a lot. We're like oh, let's see if this machine will work. Oh, I feel it, and then we'll go into a training session after and see if that translates in and how it translated, if it worked or not.

Danielle Spurling: 33:22

Yeah, and what about the leg leg work Leg work.

Speaker 3: 33:25

We're always so. I typically have bigger thighs, so it was something that I had to work on, with a lot of running, a lot of heels, just to keep it toned and not as heavy, so I don't feel the heaviness in the water. I did a lot of leg press, the running up the heels, like I said, a lot of sled toes. Things like that really work the glutes and the hamstrings and give you that cardio as well.

Danielle Spurling: 33:48

So great advice for all those breaststrokers out there Now, aliyah, every person that comes on the podcast. I like to ask a few little questions as a snapshot of their swimming life. So just tell me the first thing that pops into your head what's the favorite pool that you've ever swum in? Singapore? Singapore, why, why Singapore?

Speaker 3: 34:05

Yes, so not the pool they currently have now. When I was doing my World Cups, they had an outdoor pool.

Speaker 3: 34:12

It was in my outdoor and I love outdoor pools, love it, love it, love it. So the majority of them are indoor and in the US the majority of them were indoor. So it was really hard to find a competition pool that's outdoor, that's not a training pool. So this was an outdoor pool and the covering the bottom part of the 50 meter was open so you could see trees and like nature and everything was gorgeous. And the other side was open to like a field and cars you're driving by and stuff. So it was just very real. It was just very real Because sometimes if you're by yourself in a training pool, it's very quiet and it's all you.

Speaker 3: 34:47

So it was very real, like you could easily just distract yourself. You'd be like, okay, let's do this. But the thing that got me is that there was a rainstorm that day, but because it was covered, we could still swim. So it was on the blocks and you could hear the rain just pouring and it was just a great time. I don't know why, but it was just really great to be with nature and still practice and compete and swim and just feel the rainwater Nice that sounds lovely.

Danielle Spurling: 35:20

And what's your favorite breaststroke drill?

Speaker 3: 35:22

I do like to up to under, so that's two strokes above the water and then you submerge yourself and then two strokes under. I like that one because you feel the difference between above the water and your normal stroke and then feel the resistance underneath and trying to emulate a long distance stroke underneath the water as well. So, yeah, I think that probably would be my best, my favorite.

Danielle Spurling: 35:46

And what about your favorite pre-race snack?

Speaker 3: 35:49

I would say gummies like a fruit snack. Yeah, I don't like to feel like I'm eating something, so I don't really like granola bars. And then gummies are cool and you can just walk with it and chew, and they're not. They don't make you feel as full, so you're on the block. You're not gonna be like oh, I feel that peanut butter and jelly sandwich. I like the gummies.

Danielle Spurling: 36:15

Yeah, yeah, good one. And looking back over your career, what was your favorite go-to training set that you always did, sadly there are two.

Speaker 3: 36:28

There's one that we did in college and we transitioned that into my professional life at the beginning and it's the hundred free and you could stretch it to stroke as well. But you start off at like 140 and then you keep on going, and the next one is 139, then 138, then 137. And you keep on going until you miss the interval. I did not like it, but also I felt so accomplished when I finished because I'm a stubborn athlete, I'm very competitive. So if I know I'm swimming beside somebody and it looks like they're not gonna make it, I'm like, okay, but I'm gonna make it. I'm so little faster to make sure I made that 110. And then you have to turn and make the next one on 109. So it's like now you're sprinting a 200 on 219.

Danielle Spurling: 37:17

And so what was the lowest you ever got it to? To repeat 107. 107, well done.

Speaker 3: 37:23

Right and I was with the distances, so it was all the distances were still left Everybody else. When they finish and you miss it, you have to sit on on the side. So you're breathing and you're seeing everybody and you're like oh, and they're like oh, but you're the joker because you're still swimming. But I know what, I'm still going. So I was with all the distances. I was like, oh, this means something.

Danielle Spurling: 37:44

I can go. What was the other set that you said you had to?

Speaker 3: 37:48

So the other one is a 50 sets and my coach loves to do it. In the latter part we trained with a Japanese team in Mexico for a training camp. They just happened to be there at the same time and the Japanese team was I can't believe they go that fast. It made me feel like what am I doing in training? Like I'm not training and I'm like I can't go any faster.

Speaker 3: 38:11

So it was 650s and then, yeah, it was 650s pace on whatever, and then 250s going one all out one easy and then 450s pace and then one all out one easy and I was holding pace, but I was also gearing up for the 50 pass. But I was going like 36s for 50 breaths and I was like, ok, I can do 200 pace-ish, and the other simpers were going 34s and I was like what is happening? Oh, it was amazing. But it was interesting just to show the dynamics of how other people train. Some people train really fast and some people they're pushing it, but it's just not happening. Because when I rested in taper I actually got to meet that same girl again in a competition and we're pretty close together.

Speaker 3: 39:05

So I was like, oh, so you're. 34s weren't an indicator of, yes, I could go a little faster, but I wasn't going to hold 34s, and it was probably on like 45 seconds or 50 seconds, I think it was on 50 seconds.

Danielle Spurling: 39:20

So it's not that much less the whole six.

Speaker 3: 39:21

Hardly any. Oh my gosh, hardly any. Like I think 36 was like my top three and then it just went. Yeah, she just kept on going. I think you're amazing.

Danielle Spurling: 39:36

And I've been asking this recently after the World Championships If you were going to create a fantasy mixed medley relay team and this can be swimmers past and present who would you put on that team Two male and two female for that medley relay?

Speaker 3: 39:56

I think because of me and where I come from so the Caribbean we always have swimmers as a whole, but individually in each country we don't even have enough for a relay. Yeah, so there are a few countries that may have a relay here and there, but all together we're individual, so we come together as a Caribbean. So I think for me my fantasy team will be to have a Caribbean relay, so to have Dylan Carter from Trinidad, who's doing fantastic right now, maybe a George Bravel or a Nesty those both have gotten Olympic medals and then for the girls, it will be either Leah Marndale from Barbados she got six in 2004 or 2000 in the 53rd Olympics or Ariana Vandepoel Wallace from Bahamas, who also got six at Olympics.

Speaker 3: 40:49

So Olympic medalists or Olympic finalists, but individually we will never be known for a relay, so I think they will be my fantasy relay.

Danielle Spurling: 40:58

Yeah, maybe they should look at doing that for smaller nations.

Alia Atkinson: 41:03

Yeah, he should. I've tried yeah.

Danielle Spurling: 41:08

Some of the other countries might have been too pleased about that.

Speaker 3: 41:13

It would have been really good.

Danielle Spurling: 41:15

Well, aliyah, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. It's been a joy speaking to you and wishing you every success heading forward in your role with World Aquatics and Whatabound, and hopefully, if anyone would like to, we can put the link in the show notes to your new book that's come out as well.

Speaker 3: 41:31

Oh, perfect, thank you very much.

Danielle Spurling: 41:33

Yeah, we'll take care and hopefully we get to meet in Doha.

Speaker 3: 41:38

Oh nice, yes, ok then Thank you very much. Bye, Take care.

Danielle Spurling: 41:45

Bob, I hope you enjoyed my chat with Aliyah today and got something out of our discussion to take into your own swimming. We have some huge guests coming up over the next few weeks, one I've been very excited to get on the podcast for a very long time, so check out. Our new episode drops every Wednesday. Till next time, happy swimming and bye for now.