Torpedo Swimtalk Podcast with Matt Biondi: An exclusive with the Olympic legend himself

Welcome to another exciting episode of Torpedo Swimtalk Podcast Today, we have a truly special treat for you as we sit down with none other than legendary 11-time Olympic medalist, Matt Biondi. Prepare to be immersed in the captivating tales of his three incredible Olympic campaigns, as he takes us on a journey through those unforgettable moments in history.

Matt Biondi's name is synonymous with greatness in the world of swimming. With a candid and unfiltered conversation, he shares his experiences of facing intense global competition and navigating the relentless media pressure, providing us all with invaluable lessons in courage and resilience.

Discover how Matt harnessed the power of masters swimming as a healing tool during a challenging period in his life, offering invaluable insights into the transformative role of the sport beyond competition.

For those fortunate enough to swim alongside Matt in masters training sessions, his generosity shines through as a mentor to his club-mates, eagerly sharing coaching tips from the water. We delve into the intriguing "Biondi Butterfly Drill" myth, explore his favourite freestyle drills and training sets, and celebrate the annual masters swim meet fundraiser named in his honour.

Through Matt's unwavering passion for the sport, this episode becomes a wellspring of motivational takeaways and profound insights. Don't miss this golden opportunity to immerse yourself in the triumphs and trials of a bonafide Olympic champion, absorb his enduring message of persistence, and witness his unbridled love for swimming. 

Dive in with us as we unravel the inspiring story of Matt Biondi.

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Transcript

Danielle Spurling: 0:05

Hello Swimmers and welcome to a very special edition of torpedo swim talk podcast. I'm your host, Danielle Spurling, and each week I chat to a master swimmer from around the world about their swimming journey. Today, I'm honoured to be joined by a guest that needs no introduction, Matt Biondi. We've all witnessed his amazing 11 Olympic medals, 8 of which were gold, 7 world records and all marvelled at his pure athleticism. He's made for swimming and watching his swims from back in the 80s and early 90s is like watching poetry and motion in a water sense. But the reason you should listen into this chat is Matt's story about resilience and determination. This is one episode not to be missed. Let's hear from Matt now. Hi, Matt, welcome to the podcast.

Matt Biondi: 1:03

Hi Danielle.

Danielle Spurling: 1:05

So good of you to join us today. Where are you based? In California.

Matt Biondi: 1:09

I'm in the valley in Calabasas. I came there for a teaching job at Sierra Canyon, I think in 2012, and I was only going to stay one year.

Danielle Spurling: 1:22

What do you teach there?

Matt Biondi: 1:25

I don't teach there anymore, but I've been a math and history teacher for 19 years now.

Matt Biondi: 1:32

I was so much exposed to kids through swimming clinics and speaking to boys and girls clubs and lots of school assemblies, especially a lot of middle school kids do an Olympic theme, kind of fair, and so they bring me in and I realized after 12 years of motivational speaking in corporate America that I got more out of speaking to kids than I did to adults, and so that sort of led me into teaching and I did that for 19 years.

Danielle Spurling: 2:06

And so you're not teaching at all anymore.

Matt Biondi: 2:08

I'm helping out in the district as a sub and looking back to maybe a full-time position or moving into something like tutoring or doing swim clinics, maybe some private lessons. I'm not really sure. I'm kind of at a stage right now where in between, as you might say so, I'm working on some next tentacles moving out there.

Danielle Spurling: 2:34

Yeah, sounds good. Similar to me, I had a 25-year PE teaching career and I finished up at the end of 2021 and I've been sort of toying with the idea of what's happening. I'm doing a bit of swim coaching, a bit of podcasting, that kind of thing, but I do love working with kids and they are a joy. They give you so much. They can be hard work as well, though.

Matt Biondi: 2:57

And I think my message resonates with them. We had talked just in the introduction personally about social media and the role and effect of young kids and my message is one of just really pain, emotional pain, as a kid growing up teased a lot for being skinny, never feeling like I was good enough, always kind of second fiddle, and I was able to use that to my advantage. And I think it's a really important lesson for kids because, number one, they all feel not good enough or they all know what it's like to be socially ridiculed or not invited to the party.

Matt Biondi: 3:38

So I've had a lot of good success with that. And the neat thing is I'll get letters. There's a pile over here still that I need to get to, with kids that say I went out for the school musical because I heard your story and it's. Those kind of things that make it feel like I made a difference and that's a good feeling.

Danielle Spurling: 3:58

Yes, yeah, I think everyone looks back at their own schooling and remembers a teacher that made an impact on them and you can still remember that person. They may not remember you, but I think teachers can make a really big impact and obviously you have in your teaching career.

Matt Biondi: 4:13

Well, I remember my headmaster told me that I'm in thirds. There's a third of my class that loves my class and loves math. There's a third that sort of shrugs their shoulders and says, eh, he's okay. And then the other third says, no way, he's way too hard of a grader.

Danielle Spurling: 4:30

I've heard that before too. Yeah, yeah, let's get on to your swimming. Have you managed to get a swimming this week?

Matt Biondi: 4:37

I swam this morning, as a matter of fact.

Danielle Spurling: 4:39

Excellent.

Matt Biondi: 4:40

I swam three days a week.

Danielle Spurling: 4:42

Three days a week. And where do you swim out of?

Matt Biondi: 4:46

Canado Valley Masters.

Danielle Spurling: 4:48

It's in Thousand.

Matt Biondi: 4:49

Oaks, which is about a 20 minute drive, and I joined up with Nancy Reno and her crew when I came to LA for that first teaching job that I mentioned earlier.

Matt Biondi: 4:59

It was a very difficult time in my life Just gone through a very difficult divorce that lasted about two years and left Hawaii, where we had raised the kids, and came to LA with my two boys, Nate and Luke, eventually, and I was really in a difficult spot, and one of the things that really helped moving to a new city was having a group to be able to go to and feel like you've got some people around you, plus the fact that Nancy, who's the coach in leading the program, she had been divorced and really turned into quite a mentor for me in not only giving me exercise so that I could come home tired, but also giving me some really great advice, and in that regard, master swimming was really a savior for me. I had stayed out of the pool for years after my Olympic experience. Things with USA Swimming went from bad to worse and drove me out of the sport, and so part of why I went into teaching and Nancy really helped heal a lot of the old wounds.

Danielle Spurling: 6:17

Yeah, I'm so pleased to hear that because I hear that a lot from people in masters swimming that they may have had that time out of the water after being a swimmer. As an age group and obviously yourself as a world renowned swimmer it's been able to help them heal whatever sort of hurt and disappointment they've had from that time by just bringing back the joy they have in going in the water and having that sort of familiarity with training. Is that the way you sort of feel about it?

Matt Biondi: 6:46

I was growing up, I was a three sport athlete. I would play water polo in the fall, and then basketball would be in the you know whatever winter, and then swimming would be in the springtime, and so I always loved basketball. I played basketball as a kid, and my road to the Olympics was somewhat different than most Olympics. I only swam three months a year until I got to high school, and then I was leaving the pool to play basketball in between the two seasons and so I always loved basketball and when swimming ended, that's where I went, and it was funny because I made a semi-protein in Portland for the Multnomah Athletic Club.

Matt Biondi: 7:29

There were 16 guys picked and I got picked 16. And so in our I didn't play at all, because some of these guys have been drafted by the NBA. Most of them played in Europe. They were really good players and so I sat on the bench the whole season and the last game. A lot of the players didn't show up and so I got some playing time. In fact, I got to start the game and in the first two series I had a three point shot and a breakaway dunk and the other team called the timeout. It came over and the coach says I don't know what to tell you guys, but the swimmer has all the points. And then my back went out and I remember the doctor telling me in the future you need to exercise. You know, two weeks maybe of laying up low, but eventually the healing comes from movement and strengthening the cores and not from just lying with your feet up.

Matt Biondi: 8:20

He says you got two choices you can cycle or you can swim and I thought how ironic. And on the big island a lot of cyclists are killed every year. You know they have the try the iron man there and there's no shoulder, there's no place for cyclists and a lot of them get picked off. So I thought I guess I better go back to the pool. And that's been 21 years now.

Danielle Spurling: 8:43

Oh, that's good. Master swimming is happy to have you believe me Up to be honest.

Matt Biondi: 8:47

I don't like competing anymore. It's really quite depressing. When I used to swim 100 meters under 49 seconds. Now you can time me with a sundial.

Danielle Spurling: 9:00

I'm sure it's not like that. What could you throw down for 100 free now?

Matt Biondi: 9:07

See, a couple of years ago, when I really went for it, I went a 54, 54.0.

Danielle Spurling: 9:12

That's amazing.

Matt Biondi: 9:14

It was good. Yeah, it was good for my age.

Danielle Spurling: 9:17

Yeah, absolutely. You had such a remarkable career as an Olympian and I really wanted to talk about that with 11 Olympic gold medals oh sorry, 11 Olympic medals, eight of them gold. Can you share with us some of the moments that meant the most to you throughout that journey over 84, 88, 92 Olympics?

Matt Biondi: 9:37

Sure, I guess I alluded to a little bit of the social ridicule that I had as a kid. My dad used to call me the human one, iron, because I looked like a golf club standing sideways with my big 14 size feet. So I went to the 84 trials on the recommendation that my coach said just go and watch and you'll get valuable experience. And I really didn't expect to make the team and it was so fortunate because I remember the day of the competition. You'd see the swimmers in the ready room or just around the pool trying to be comfortable getting ready for their race and they're white as goats. You could just see the fear in their eyes and I know what it's like. You've been training 15 years for this moment and in some cases you have a minute or less or maybe two minutes.

Matt Biondi: 10:28

And for the United States, as with Australia I'm sure it's that field of eight is a tough competition. So and I went into it just totally blind, just a dumb kid, I had no idea what was going on. I swam and I made the finals and it allowed in lane seven and Robin Leney was in lane six, ucla sprinter fastest man in the world at the time before the world record was recognized in the 50. And I actually had his picture on my wall when I was in high school for inspiration. And he was next to me in lane six and of course he's a sprinter, so I just sort of tried to hang with him as best I could. We turned and I started to catch him and as I got to the halfway mark, coming home, I looked across the pool and I could see all the way to lane one and it totally freaked me out because I mentally wasn't ready to win that race.

Matt Biondi: 11:28

But I was definitely in there and it really was a moment of how the physical body and the mental body have to be in the same. And my mind wasn't there. I didn't see myself as a champion yet and I finished fourth, but it got me on the relay and then LA was just the same thing I had no idea what was going on.

Matt Biondi: 11:52

Rowdy Gaines was my roommate and I trained with him and I sort of just fell under his wing and said that you know, whatever he did, I did. So I had to be on the right track and of course, our relay we won world record. I had a good, solid swim, gave Rowdy the lead coming from behind, and so that led to my college Water Polo and Swimming, which ended in 88. I graduated that May of 88. And of course we had the trials just another month away, and so 88 was very different, because some guy by the name of Mark Spitz had won seven gold medals in one.

Matt Biondi: 12:37

Olympics and set seven world records, and so when I qualified for seven events, that was what the press kept pushing was are you gonna be Mark Spitz? And I'm like well, the world is different now. I mean, mark left most of his competition at home when he went to the Olympics, taking one and two, and I got beat by Anthony Nesty from Suriname for crying out loud. I mean, I know he trained in Florida and Randy Rees put him on the podium one of our US coaches, but still, and we just didn't have that pool back then. And so I finished with seven medals and I felt that that was a great accomplishment.

Matt Biondi: 13:13

And I'll tell you that my first medal in the 200 free was bronze and I was so excited my first individual medal and I was on the podium and I really felt good and ironically, the bronze medal is the most spectacular when you look at the three different medals, the bronze shows more of the relief and the detail because they're pieces of art really, and a lot of sculpture is made from bronze because it shows all the fine eye detail.

Matt Biondi: 13:41

So, here I am with my bronze medal and we come back to the village where all the athletes and, being the first swim and the first medal, everybody kind of in the lobby came around and I pulled it out and they wanted to see it and hold it and it was this really great moment. And then in the corner was an NBC recap of the race and so Bob Costas comes on after the race. Here's all that hype about Matt Biondi and seven gold medals and Bob Costas says well, matt Biondi has failed to eclipse Mark Spitz's record of seven gold medals, had to settle for the bronze. We'll be back.

Matt Biondi: 14:16

After these messages and the whole like lift of the room, they all turned to me and just said oh, I'm so sorry. And I actually wrote him several letters Like who the hell are you to call me a failure? You know that's ridiculous and he never really copped up to it. He did come back later on and say some nice things about my future. But that sort of leads into the pressure that the media puts on you that you have to be always superlative and if you're not, then they drag you down. And as a good message is that you know you just got to go out there and do your best and please the people that love you and care about you and the rest is just noise, and it really is true.

Matt Biondi: 15:01

It doesn't matter what they say about you, as long as they spell your name, right yeah.

Danielle Spurling: 15:07

I mean, getting a bronze medal at the Olympics is an amazing feat. And that race, I remember it particularly. It was a great race between you and Duncan Armstrong from Australia, who got the gold, and you both swam so beautifully and I thought that was a great way to set off your amazing Olympics. What about the five gold that followed? How did you feel about those?

Matt Biondi: 15:28

Well, you forget that. The next one I lost by a hundredth of a second to Anthony Nesty, leading the whole way ahead of world record and what a lot of people don't know is I didn't swim butterfly In the competition pool.

Matt Biondi: 15:42

Our polo coach used to punish us swimming butterfly, but always short distance, so I never developed a bad stroke. And in 88, when I was such a good shape, I could pull off a hundred meter butterfly and so I led the whole way. But I totally choked on the finish Three long strokes instead of the appropriate four shorter ones, and I lost by a hundredth of a second. So if you look at the thickness of your fingernail, that's it. And then, of course, beyond he has failed again. So I remember going in I still had another swim that night to anchor our 800 free relay, and I remember being like, okay, you got to bear down just one time. One time, show the world what you can do, and if you do that once then you can go home and hold your head high. And so then we won the relay and then came the hundred.

Matt Biondi: 16:33

Not my best time, but good enough for Olympic record. Another gold medal. Our free relay we rocked it, took it, took another gold. And then it was the 50 that really set things off, when I was able to beat Tom, which didn't always happen. You know, Tom won most of the races that we competed against, so fierce competitor. And then our medley relay. So I ended up, after a disappointing bronze and silver, I ended up with five golds to finish off.

Danielle Spurling: 17:02

And how about the Barcelona Olympics?

Matt Biondi: 17:04

Yeah, you know, that was really an unfortunate situation for myself and for the future of swimming, Because Tom and I were really on the cusp of bringing modern swimming to the United States. We were still under the amateur model. Don Shollander almost got sanctioned because he accidentally kept a business coat from one of the photo shoots. And you know, go back in history, Gal has a glass of champagne on the ship going over there and she sent home I mean that whole model of love of country, doing it because you value the sport and not willing to financially support your athletes. And when Tom and I started to make money, both in our own speedo or arena contracts but also in our match races, we were getting prize money, appearance money and prize money and that totally blew US swimming away.

Matt Biondi: 17:59

They did everything they could to keep me from the limelight, to keep me out of the press. I had to train by myself. I couldn't hire a coach. I actually asked Eddie Reese, who was the head men's Olympic coach for the 92 Olympics in 1989, three years earlier. I called him up and I said I'm homeless, I need a coach. You're the Olympic coach. Let me come to Austin and train with you. He said let me see, call me back the next day and said no, so I had that because he had loyalty to college. And Sean Jordan, who was another you know, he actually made the alternate on the relay and I think it's so small-minded because if Sean and I had trained together, maybe he would have been on the relay, Maybe I could have helped him, instead of trying to keep your proprietary interest to yourself. It's very selfish and unfortunate because he was the leader of our Olympic team and he shut the door on me and US swimming did, and in fact, Ray.

Matt Biondi: 19:03

Essek about six months before he passed away, apologized and admitted that because I was with Arena and Speedo was a national team sponsor, that Speedo actively told USA Swimming to restrict Matt Biondi from his pursuits. So I was over in Bonn, germany, for an Arena Sprint Series and I was in shape and ready to compete. And I got a fax from USA Swimming the day of the competition and said if I participated I would lose my Olympic eligibility. And it was all money, it was all money from Speedo to try to keep Arena and Matt out of the limelight. And so after 92, I flipped him the bird and it was awful, it was totally unfortunate. And now look at what professional sports have done today, look at how far swimming has come and everything that we pushed for was the absolute right thing to do, but they weren't ready for it.

Danielle Spurling: 20:07

It's a sad way that you had to finish your Olympic career in that way.

Matt Biondi: 20:12

Yeah, it was awful, it was just awful.

Danielle Spurling: 20:15

Well, let's flip it to a brighter note, talk a bit about your experience in the World Championships, where you had a lot of success as well, and you broke the 50-meter world record three times and the 100-meter four times. Can you tell us a little bit about some of the good experiences from that time?

Matt Biondi: 20:36

Well, obviously, when you meet or exceed your goals, it's amazing feedback and it really just feeds that you're on a good path and you're making a positive impact. Conversely, it doesn't always work out that way. I think the message that I give kids is just more of persistence. And then, once you hit that high mark, then you got to log it away and keep it as a keepsake, because it doesn't always happen that way.

Matt Biondi: 21:12

But I was very fortunate to have some great swims. I have a 6'7". I got big hands, kind of smaller bones. So I remember being on the football field for one of the 49er games and Joe Montana and Roger Craig and Dwight Clark and all the big stars were coming out first and they looked at me and they go hey, you're the swimmer, aren't you? And then Montana looks at me and says, well, if we can put on 60 pounds, we might make a tight end out of it.

Matt Biondi: 21:49

I was too wispy, so just physically, I had a great model for being in the water and I was really driven by a lot of social ridicule when I was young and I think Phelps had a similar experience with dyslexia and some bouncing around schools, maybe not so great relationship with his dad and I think every sports celebrity, michael Jordan, getting cut from his middle school basketball team.

Matt Biondi: 22:21

I mean, that's what makes champions is to be resilient and to be able to take those painful feelings, emotional feelings and turn them into something positive and, if you can, do that then it's really quite inspiring as a human being to know that you know whatever, whatever life brings you. You know, you can deal with it. It may not be comfortable for quite a while.

Danielle Spurling: 22:47

But once you get over it and hit that mark.

Matt Biondi: 22:50

You just need to do it once, and then you see that path and it's a great feeling.

Danielle Spurling: 22:55

Looking back at that time during those three Olympics, did you let yourself feel joy at those successes then, or did you wait until your career was over? I know it entered on a bit of a sour note for you, but do you look back at it now and think how amazing that was? I mean, if that was done right now, you would be a worldwide celebrity. You are a worldwide celebrity, but you would be because of social media. You would be in everyone's the forefront of everyone's mind.

Matt Biondi: 23:25

Sure, you know, I think about what it would be like if I had done what I did in the current modern era. For example, usa Swimming gave me $12,000 for seven Olympic medals and five gold medals, and can you imagine what that would be equivalent to today? I mean, it was also insulting. I turned around and donated all the money back to Berkeley, where they gave me a full scholarship.

Danielle Spurling: 23:53

The torpedo swim talk newsletter is about to be relaunched and will include lots of free content for friends of the podcast. Drop us a line at torpedo swim talk at gmailcom to be included on our email list if you aren't already on it. Yeah, I think much more later.

Matt Biondi: 24:13

I remember one moment in Seoul swimming seven events, which was a great experience. I remember swimming seven events, which was 11 times in the eight days. Fortunately we didn't have semifinals then, so we just had trials and finals, so that made it quite a bit easier, but there was always, you know, once one race was over, then you were right into the next race before you could you know as soon as the medal ceremony was over.

Matt Biondi: 24:38

It was neat, walking around the stadium with the medals and the fanfare and waving, but it was like a, to be honest, it was like a movie set and someone was going to say cut. You know, okay, go back. Or you know someone's going to say, hey, you don't belong here, get out of here. It was always a part of me and it was like is this real and is this really happening? It was hard to kind of just settle in. But once everything was over, I remember going back to the hotel room after my last swim in Seoul and I sat on the bed and I just sort of fell back and I just couldn't believe what had just happened and that it was all over and that I had done well and that no one could take it away from me and it was in the books and that was really the first time that I appreciated and really got to kind of put my head around what I had accomplished.

Matt Biondi: 25:36

And it still goes on today. I mean, I'm not a superstar. In fact, most people question the fact that I'm not beyond the because, you know, my hair is quite a bit different than it used to be.

Matt Biondi: 25:48

I lost a little bit of the neck and the big shoulders and all that. But I was at the lumber yard and I was looking through the timbers trying to find ones that were straight, and there was another gentleman on the other side and so you know we were doing the same thing, so he's at one end. I met the other and we're moving the boards and he goes hey, are you, Matt beyondy? And I said, well, yeah, I am, he goes. You did really well for our country, Damn.

Danielle Spurling: 26:14

Lovely, and that was it, yeah, yeah.

Matt Biondi: 26:18

Yeah, then that still goes on today, or if I pay with a credit card. Yeah kind of thing.

Danielle Spurling: 26:25

They'll say oh, beyond you, were you an.

Matt Biondi: 26:27

Olympian, you're the one that hit your head on the diet. Oh, that was Greg Legatus.

Danielle Spurling: 26:36

Yeah, that was terrible. I remember saying that that was yeah.

Matt Biondi: 26:39

Yeah, and remember there was no AIDS protocol back then. If you see they, they dressed his wound just with a bare hand.

Danielle Spurling: 26:48

Yeah well, you were the first man under 49 seconds for the hundred free, and that was an amazing feat at the time. How did you? Did you change your training before that to get under that? How did you first get under that? What? What strategy did you use in the race?

Matt Biondi: 27:04

the key to the hundred free for me was really swimming the 200 and also dropping down to the 50. I got beat in the 50 Jager quite frequently, pablo beating in the butterfly, a micro gross in the 200 free, along with Sven Lotevsky and, and, and. So the hundred was really my, my specialty. I felt like I was, was confident in that race and so when I swam my fastest time 48 for was at the trials in Austin and I had swum the 200 previously set American record so I knew my training was good.

Matt Biondi: 27:43

The butterfly my second time ever at one the Olympic trials be, Pablo for the first time, and Then the third event was the hundred free, and I knew that I was going to tear it up. I just had an amazing amount of confidence and I'm a pretty modest guy.

Matt Biondi: 28:00

You wouldn't know it from being in my home. I have a few of my college awards, primarily because they're just really pretty awards, they're gorgeous. So I'm a pretty modest guy. But in we walked into the ready room for the hundred swim, for a hundred meter swim, for the, the 88 trials. And when I got there the other seven guys looked at me and I swear they all said the same thing in their head, which was Matt here, matt's here. Now we're swimming for second.

Matt Biondi: 28:30

And when I walked out onto the pool deck, you know there was you know five, seven thousand people there. I could almost hear individual voices like go Sean, go Tom, go Matt. It was really quite strange. And when I dove in I remember just sort of like being above my body, like not really in it, not really feeling any of my movements, and I hit the one turn and as I looked over, the field was still coming in. They hadn't hit the wall yet and I was already pushing off. So there's a half body like three-quarter body, like lead right now. And Many of the coaches responded that when I came up They've never seen the swimmer come out so high in the water.

Matt Biondi: 29:13

Maybe that's not a good thing, but it was just an amazing swim where I felt no pain until maybe the last three strokes and that was. That was really the highlight of my athletic. It was the the best swim that I ever had and it was really about challenging myself outside the hundred and the 200 free and the 50 free. That made the hundred so good and it's interesting there's really not been a lot of folks who do the 50 and the 200 anymore. Yeah, popovich maybe is the closest with the hundred and the 200, but my college record stood for 20 some years, my NCAA record, just because they didn't, they didn't swim that breath. Afterwards it was all just 50 and 100. I think NCAA changed their scholarship and events to allow more sprinters to come in and that sort of Waded the the recruiting class towards the faster events and away from the longer ones.

Danielle Spurling: 30:14

That's a pity, isn't it? Because those middle distance sorry, the middle distance some, or 200 is a great addition to your program and it's obviously helped, helped your hundred, as you said.

Matt Biondi: 30:27

Yeah, yeah, no that you know a variety of events. But then again there's a saying that those that can sprint, sprint and those that can't swim distance. And there's a certain truth to that, because for the events that are, you know, especially the 50 that Flash, you know, diving, splash and dash, those are just really exciting. And, for example, when Tom and I would swim against each other in the championship.

Danielle Spurling: 30:58

Nobody was in the bathroom.

Matt Biondi: 30:59

Nobody was getting concessions, nobody was out on a phone call. I mean it was one of the premier events of the night and you could hear, you know the the fan that it was, the stands would start pumping and just cheering the whole, the whole Elevation would come up. So those were fun, fun times.

Danielle Spurling: 31:17

Do you the way that you train back then for those events? Do you think that it's different to the way they're they're training now? Oh? Absolutely and the simplest way to.

Matt Biondi: 31:28

To explain it, I think, is that we used to do this mountain Design where you build yardage, build yardage until you're totally worn down. I'm not sure I needed to swim 10,000 meters a day to swim the 200. I don't know that, that. I don't think any sprinters are doing that now. But then the idea is, once you come down off the slope, then your body responds and you have all this energy, you know where you go and the difference now is, I think, you train like you want to compete. There's no sloppy swimming. Like I mentioned earlier, with my butterfly I was just always on top of the water and learned to swim butterfly the absolute correct way and so on it. You know more modern training schedule if an athlete doesn't feel it and, believe me, we all have those days.

Matt Biondi: 32:13

You shut her down, you don't just grind through it, you just keep a very high standard in the pool and the training pool. And of course, now they do a lot more Core work, there's a lot more dry land. I know my son, nate, swam at Berkeley and I was vicariously following his training schedule and they, they do a lot more out of the pool, out of the pool training, which I think is is really, you know, important. And then, of course, the big difference is the underwater swimming. You know, birkhoff Just introduced that and he used to swim the whole way underwater. It was before Fina outlawed the rules. He'd take three strokes in a 50 meter pool and then stay under over half. I mean, and what was so ironic is that Fina said it's not exciting Because you can't see the swimmer, but when he would pop up, you know this whole field is empty lane and he would pop up, oh boy, the crowd went wild.

Danielle Spurling: 33:08

Absolutely deed.

Matt Biondi: 33:10

It was like a submarine coming out from the depths.

Danielle Spurling: 33:13

If you were swimming now, do you think you'd focus more on the 15 100 or would you you go towards the hundred and the 200?

Matt Biondi: 33:20

No, I laugh at that because I I Know I wouldn't do any of it. I I really enjoy just training. I'm a competition is is. I Don't look forward to it. It's just hard for me to you know now like I Swam 100 yards in 41 seconds and now I'm feel good if I can break a minute.

Danielle Spurling: 33:45

I mean, it's kind of depressing in a way.

Matt Biondi: 33:48

My last meet in December, I decided to swim the 400 meters.

Danielle Spurling: 33:54

Because I'd never swim it before. So what does that?

Matt Biondi: 33:56

mean, I was guaranteed to have a personal best time. That's right. First time as a master swimmer. Why'd you get a best time? Well, it's the first time I swam the event.

Danielle Spurling: 34:05

We go with your master swimming. I know that you started the map beyond the map beyond the masters classic From the pool that you train at. Tell us a little bit how, how that came to be and is that still going now? And do you interest yourself?

Matt Biondi: 34:20

Well, obviously we had a little slowdown with COVID, like the rest of the world, but we're getting ready for our eighth annual coming up in March. And, as I mentioned earlier, when I joined the masters, the Kaneo Valley Masters, the head coach there, nancy, was more than a coach, she was just a really good friend. And so she approached me and said you know, would you be willing to put your name on a meet for fundraiser for the club? And of course, you know I agreed and so we've been.

Matt Biondi: 34:52

We've been doing it every year that we could and it's a great fundraiser for the club. A lot of people like it because Nancy does more than just the swimming. The first year there, you know you could print your own t-shirts. There's a raffle with lots of really nice donated items. You know beautiful baskets, wine kits and pottery and, and you know, sports memorabilia, so you can. You know they're raffling things off during the day.

Matt Biondi: 35:17

And it's just a great it's. It's, I think, people we get maybe a little over 200. I think our high watermark was 275 number of swimmers. So it's a great event and it helps the club and we all have to chip in our own way. So I'm glad to be a part of it.

Danielle Spurling: 35:34

Yeah, and is that run over short course, yards or meters?

Matt Biondi: 35:36

Yeah, yeah, I know crazy Americans were the only ones that swim stupid yards. But yeah, we're still counting inches and feet and all that ridiculous stuff. When I was a kid a middle school I remember seeing a video and this guy got pulled over because the sign said 99 kilometers an hour. Well, that equates to 55 miles an hour here in the States, but he thought it was so that with the whole, I mean in the seventies. They wanted to convert, and here we are.

Danielle Spurling: 36:04

Still with the old system, and have you done much coaching of master swimmers yourself, or has that been really just younger swimmers that you've worked with?

Matt Biondi: 36:12

Well, in truth I'm sort of like a habitual coach. I can't help but look at swimmers under the water. And so I mean, today a guy swim with Don. He's just lightening quick. He's a few years older than me and you know, for a 50, you can't leave him behind. He's amazing. But after a 50, it just sort of goes downhill from there and he cuts his stroke short. He doesn't finish all the way. There's not a lot of roll, he's really flat. And so I'm watching him and I'm like, hey, don, can I just get you some little piece of advice? He's like sure. So I do that with the swimmers on our team. And then there's a couple of kids in the area who go to the local high school where my daughter goes to, and I've agreed to help them out, you know not often, once every two weeks or so, we'll get in the pool and I'll look at them and give us some suggestions.

Matt Biondi: 37:08

But I haven't coached really on a formal basis since I left teaching and of course as a teacher I was coaching the middle school and high school swim programs.

Danielle Spurling: 37:19

Yeah, well, funny. That leads me into a funny little story. I don't know whether you know that I had Becky, your teammate, master's teammate, on the podcast a few weeks ago and she mentioned that she had heard another guest mention the beyondy fly drill and she said that she told you about it and you'd never, ever heard of the beyondy fly drill. So I just wanted to know from you do you know where that originated? Because I know that coaches all over Australia give the beyondy fly drill.

Matt Biondi: 37:49

Huh, I didn't even know what it is. You guys don't have to tell me.

Danielle Spurling: 37:53

Do I give you the?

Matt Biondi: 37:54

royalties. For that Is there, like any compensation for trade market infringement or something you definitely need to.

Danielle Spurling: 38:01

It's the one where you have your arm at the front. You do two butterfly arm strikes on that side. You do two in the middle with both and then you do two on that side.

Matt Biondi: 38:10

Honestly, I've never done that drill in my whole life.

Danielle Spurling: 38:12

Never done that drill, I never heard of it. Well, you need to be getting.

Matt Biondi: 38:15

You need to be getting some royalties, the vicious rumor started by Duncan Armstrong. I'm sure of it.

Danielle Spurling: 38:20

Maybe, Payback. Payback for it. So what do you do is your butterfly drill?

Matt Biondi: 38:31

I try to stay away from butterfly as much as possible. It doesn't feel as good for me. I had problems with my lung and so I had some surgery and it really kind of changed everything up front. I enjoy swimming freestyle and backstroke and not so much butterfly. I'll swim with 25 or under, doing IM kind of thing.

Danielle Spurling: 38:55

But no to turn and go back the other way.

Matt Biondi: 38:58

butterfly doesn't happen. Yeah, in fact somebody approached me to get our 88 medley relay together for the Olympic trials in Indianapolis coming up next year and I was all excited until I realized hey, wait a minute. I swam butterfly on that relay.

Danielle Spurling: 39:17

No way am I doing that. Maybe they could get the freestyle one together rather than the medley.

Matt Biondi: 39:21

Yeah, well, I think it's because Richard Schroeder is there. He's our breaststroker and David Birkhoff has been coaching and involved in swimming. His daughter is really tearing it up. She's a left over member, and so then I had to fill in butterfly, so that's not happening.

Danielle Spurling: 39:42

Maybe I could do my beyondy drill. You could do your beyondy drill, I could do one stroke two strokes big whistle, Get them out of here. So if you were going to create the new beyondy drill, let's make it a freestyle one. What's your favorite freestyle drill that you do in training these days? Because you have a beautiful freestyle.

Matt Biondi: 40:02

I think the biggest thing for me is roll. A lot of swimmers swim like tugboats and their bodies are really playing in the water, pushing a lot of water, and to be able to roll on your side and get your profile more like you're balanced on a rail and not as much just plowing through the water, that is a really a big point for me. And mostly the biggest sort of faux pas or crime in swimming are the elbows low elbows. You see it all the time in master swimmers. It partly because of flexibility.

Matt Biondi: 40:43

Some of these older gentlemen that were marathon runners or track. I mean, their ankles just don't flex. It's a 90 degree angle the whole time and when they kick they go backwards. So flexibility in masters is a big thing and it makes it hard to get the elbows up. But I really encourage rolling and a more efficient pull because it makes swimming more enjoyable. It shouldn't be a struggle at times. You should be able to just to be able to relax and, like you're walking with a friend down the street and talking at the same time, You're not worried about what your legs are doing. You're not worried about being out of breath.

Matt Biondi: 41:23

You're just enjoying company and the sunshine and the fresh air and swimming can be like that. But you know, beginning to moderate level swimmers swim one length and they get to the other end Right, and it's just because they need to be more efficient.

Danielle Spurling: 41:40

What about your favorite training set that you do for freestyle?

Matt Biondi: 41:47

I'll tell you what my from my younger days, my high school coach, stu Khan, called it breakthroughs, and every Wednesday we did starting off with 10, 100s for time on four minutes from a dive, and all the times are recorded, and he had a bar chart that he kept up on the pool deck with all of our times, and so the next week we would do nine, and then eight, and then we would come down, and so the idea is that your overall average would also come down as far as time. And it was such an intense set because you know, with four minutes apart there's waves every minute going off of eight guys and the pool just and you're over there. You know it's like, oh man, two more minutes. And so your whole week, literally your whole week, was based around Wednesday Wednesday's coming, it's Monday, here come two, two tomorrow's Wednesday and then practice, and then it was over. So Thursday is the greatest amount of time between now and Wednesday. But it was a mentally challenging set and obviously physically really great for training.

Matt Biondi: 43:02

So that was the most intense set I remember as a high school kid and I did it with my high school kids and they'll say the same thing. The whole week revolved around Wednesday. Now a set that I'm quite fond of, that's challenging, is alternating. So we do a 50 easy and then a 150 fast, and then a 50 easy and then 250 fast and then a 50 easy, 350s, a 50 easy, 450 fast, like at 200 pace for each of the 50s. So we're sprinting on short rest for the fast ones and then we get a long easy swim in between and then we come down for 321 on the fast ones and it takes about 30 minutes and by the end we did this set, I think on Monday, and I had to sit in my car for a few minutes just to drink some water and just kind of like, okay, I got to drive home. Now I mean it was intense.

Matt Biondi: 44:03

Yeah, yeah, master swimmers is funny because to most master swimmers a hard workout is how far you went, how many yards did you go. But those are the easiest practices for me because I just get in that loop, loop, loop mode and you know it's. The hard workouts are when you're on your horse going hard and your lungs are burning and your legs are seasoned up, and you know that's really. And a lot of master swimmers don't like that because they don't know how to swim at different degrees, right, they don't have that intensity from their experience, so everything is sort of the same. But if they can learn to swim easy and long at times, but then you know, let's go get it on.

Danielle Spurling: 44:49

Show me what you got. Yeah, great advice, I think, for all those master swimmers out there. Absolutely Tell me, this is a bit of an out there question, but tell me, if you were going to create a dream relay of Freestyleers right now, but include yourself in it and you can have the freestyle from any era that you want who would you put on that relay, with yourself as the anchor?

Matt Biondi: 45:14

I guess I would have to do or invite those swimmers who I had the most respect for and what I mean you know, when you're a fast swimmer, that's one thing and everybody respects that.

Matt Biondi: 45:27

But that wasn't enough for me. I got to know Michael Gross, stefan Carone, tom Jaeger outside the pool and they really helped me to see that swimming was important. But life was even more important and there are things. You know, racing across the top of the water faster than anybody else, you know it's not curing cancer, it's not helping the sick, it's not improving our environment, it's just kind of an entertainment thing and those three gentlemen were close friends and we ate together in big events outside of swimming had lots of laughter. I visited Germany several times and France on Michael and Stefan's invitation, and Tom and I actually own part of a ranch together in Colorado. We used to go camping out there many years ago. But yeah, we're good times. So nowadays I might not pick the fastest swimmers, but I picked the ones I'd enjoyed the most.

Danielle Spurling: 46:33

Yeah, I love that answer that's beautiful.

Matt Biondi: 46:36

I don't know about being an anchor. That's a little too much for me now.

Danielle Spurling: 46:40

No, no, I meant back in those days when you were swimming, where you wanted to be swimming.

Matt Biondi: 46:43

I can just mail in my time, yeah mail in your time, mail in your time.

Danielle Spurling: 46:47

You have to be your own anchor, that's for sure. Matt, thanks so much for joining us on the podcast today. It's been absolutely amazing speaking to you and wishing you every success with everything coming up in your future.

Matt Biondi: 47:00

Great. Likewise enjoy it.

Danielle Spurling: 47:02

Yeah, thanks Matt. Okay, take care.

Matt Biondi: 47:05

Okay, bye.

Danielle Spurling: 47:06

Bye, take care, Thanks for listening into the podcast today. I hope you enjoyed hearing from Matt as much as I enjoyed chatting to him. Don't forget to become a friend of the podcast by joining our email list at torpedoswimtalk@ gmail. com Until next time, happy swimming and bye. For now,