Torpedo Swimtalk Podcast with Rod Watkins - Masters Marathon Swimming Triple Crown Swimmer

Today's guest is Open Water Triple Crown title holder,  Rod Watkins. We chat about preparing for each of his amazing open water crossings - the English Channel, the Catalina Channel and the Manhattan 20 Bridges Swim.

How did Rod train for these swims? Who helped him in his quest, both before and during the swims? How do you train for such a long swim? Which was the hardest of the three to complete? What logistics are needed to make each of these swims happen, and most importantly why swim them?

Learn from his experience and what motivated him to start these epic journeys. Will Rod swim another epic crossing? Listen in to find out!

Connect with Torpedo Swimtalk:
https://www.torpedoswimtalk.com/

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:24

Hello, swimmers, and welcome to the fourth episode of Torpedo Swim Talk. I'm Danielle Sperling and today's guest is Triple Crown open water swimmer Rod Watkins.

SPEAKER_00 0:34

There you go, Rob.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Hi Rod, welcome to the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Hi Danielle, thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

Where are you coming to us from today?

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Well, I'm down at we have a farm in South West Victoria down near Camperdown on the road to Warnerville. And I've pretty much been here for the whole the last nine months. Haven't only been back to Melbourne once. Snuck away to Darwin for a few weeks when Regional Victoria was allowed to get away. And otherwise we've just been here, which has been fantastic. Love it down here.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

Oh, that's that's lovely. So you've you've missed quite a few of our lockdown restrictions, which is good.

SPEAKER_00 1:21

Yeah, no. Yeah, Regional Victoria, you know, was ahead of the head of the game a little bit relative to Metro Melbourne. So everyone's still wearing masks out here and doing those sorts of things, but you know, the restrictions weren't nearly as severe.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Yeah, that's that's good. How how's it affected your training? Have you been able to train while you're down on the farm?

SPEAKER_00 1:46

Oh look, I I after the last big swim at the end of last year, I probably up until up until two months ago, maybe, maybe three now, I'd probably swum about 20 kilometres in nine months. So there was no training. I'd sort of taken a big break and using probably using COVID as a bit of an excuse. And and and and actually the options to swim out here are a little bit limited. Um most of the pools shut down over, well, they really shut down early at the end of summer and really don't open up. In fact, they haven't even opened up yet, they're not even they don't open up for another two weeks. So the only option was to go to Warnable where there's a pool. But that was that was pretty much locked down. Or if you're brave, like a couple of people I know, they'd go in the in the ocean down at Warnable. Um more recently, I'm uh it's it's been really fortunate. I've sort of stumbled onto this group nearby, as in in Camperdown. Um there's a big sort of triathlon community down here, and so they all swim a bit, and unbeknown to me, they they swim in one of the lakes. So they call themselves the cows, the Camperdown open water swimmers. There are a lot of cows down this way. And um there's uh a fan, this is a really um interesting area um in terms of its geography, in that um it's probably the youngest volcanoes in Australia, so about 20 to 30,000 years ago, it was a really volcanic area. So there's some big craters, and a couple of them are filled with water. Um so there's a lake called Lake Bull and Mary, and so for the last month um there's a group of us that have been swimming in that, which has been fantastic. Really, it's a stunning, stunning lake.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

Uh so we do Well, what's the water temp in there?

SPEAKER_00 3:57

Um, well, probably two a month or so ago, it might have been around 16. It's warmed up to about 18. But I've got to come clean. I've been uh I've been a bit soft and I've been wearing my wetsuit, which uh I feel a bit guilty about. But but these guys are 30 years younger than me, so it enables me to keep up with them.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

Yeah, it does help a little bit, doesn't it? Just a bit.

unknown 4:23

Just a bit.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

But I've got to lose that soon. I can't I can't keep wearing it. I've got to I've gotta get to drop the suit and toughen up a bit.

SPEAKER_01 4:33

And get back. Yeah. What inspired you to get into um open water swimming um to start with?

SPEAKER_00 4:40

Yeah, I can't recall any, there was no particular event. We lived in Sydney for 20 years um up until 2000. And we lived over our last our la our last uh house was in Tamarama, which if you know Sydney, that's one beach south of Bondi. So we're always spent a lot of time around the water and just playing in the water, really. And um I I'd never done any open water swimming prior to that. So, you know, they had they had the one and two K open water swims over summer, which I used to do at Bondi, and then uh I think the first half, you know, uh when I say half decent, I mean you know, like two or three Ks might have been the Palm Beach to Whale Beach swim, which might have been two and a half K's. So that and then then so I used to, and then then they started the Bondi to Bronte swim, which was I used to walk out onto the point between Bondi and Tamarama and look out at the ocean and think, my god, imagine swimming around this point. And the next year they started the Bondi to Bronte swim. So you know I had enough courage to swim if I was surrounded by a lot of other swimmers. So um I think that was the first year they ran it, which would have been about 20 years ago now. So I did that and then um but never never took anything very seriously, and then we moved back to Melbourne in around the year 2000, and um I used to swim at the H2O pool at uh Lorriston. Uh well it was the squad run by the H2O squad, um and then I was swimming with Bucky's Beavers that you'd be familiar with, Jenny Bucknell. They used to used to be up um, I wasn't working at that time, so I was, you know, they'd all all the all the women would drop the kids off at school and I'd join them. There wasn't many guys in the squad back then, um and we'd swim for an hour. Uh so that was all very social. And then then I would have probably met the Marlins, which is where I met you, um, swimming down swimming down at Harold Holt mainly. Um and so basically up until or really ten years ago, or even less, probably, eight years ago, seven years ago, it was all um it was all pool swimming since I'd left um since I'd left Sydney. Since you'd left Sydney. And then and you know, the there's a great, you know, as you know, great open water swimming community down here in Melbourne. Um so I think I started doing um the Peter Perignon, I think, might have been my first one, which is uh Okay, so that's the one that is Sorrento. Yeah, Sorrento to Portsea. Um I think it's built at three or four kilometres, but as you know, it's got a they always do it on the outgoing tide, so it's it's a pretty quick three or four kilometres. Um and um so I I used to yeah, I used to do that for a few years, and then it sort of expanded into doing some of the swims around Point Lawnsdale, and then I did the Pier to Pub at Lawn and slowly got into doing the longer one. So there's the Pier to Pub, they introduced a 5k swim down there. Um Point Lonsdale introduced a 3.8 c swim. There's a couple of 5k swims on Australia Day, one that I used to do at um around St Kilda somewhere, and then there's the other, the Mount Martha one that I did. So really up until four years ago, the longest swim I'd ever done was five kilometres, and the longest session I'd ever done in a pool would have been one of the Marlin's sessions, which they normally, you know, they normally top out at about three K's, don't they?

SPEAKER_01 8:45

Yeah, three and a half K or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 8:47

Three and a half, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

Yeah. Well, so what made you then jump up to do the rotness swim, which was one of the first things meant.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

I was swimming, I was um I was getting up to Sydney quite a bit. Three of our kids lived in Sydney. Alice and my wife was working up there a lot, so I used to go up there quite regularly, and we we have a place right in the middle of Sydney. Um, and I used to wander across to the Andrew Boy Charlton pool on the other side of the Botanical Gardens there. Uh I used to often go across in the morning, and there was this squad there with with uh this Eastern European coach called Vlad, and that it was a very it was a big squad. They took up three, sometimes four lanes, I think, in that pool in the morning. And I used to look at them thinking, boy, that you know, they go hard, and he's yelling at them, but in a nice sort of way, but just you know, really encouraging them, but but like, come on guys, let's keep going here. And um, I built up the courage one day to go and ask him if I could join. And so I I jumped in the lane, uh, one of the lanes, not certainly not the fast lane, and uh started swimming with them and really enjoyed it and got to know a few other people. And um quite a he he he runs a he takes a big squad over to Rotnest each year, so I thought, well, I'll just jump on board and and he has a you know like a I can't remember what it is, a 12 or 14-week training programme for Rotnest. So I followed that, which included a lot of pool swimming and a lot of and then on weekends we do an ocean swim around Bondi or Manley or Balmoral. And um, so that's I signed up and and uh yeah decided to give Rotto a crack. So that would have been 2017, so it would have been uh it was at the beginning of 2018 is when um the race was. I would have been training for it the later, later half of 2017. Um and it was about that time when I was in the I can I can almost remember the day. I was at the end of the pool, and I think we'd finished the squad session, and I knew a few of these swimmers, and and someone mentioned, oh, so-and-so is uh has just swam the English Channel, and I thought, wow, you know, that's pretty impressive. And then um and then I got talking to a few of the others in the lane at the time, they said, Oh, he's done it and she's done it, and I'm thinking, heavens above, you know, there's about four or five people at the end of my lane here that have swam the English Channel, and I'm sort of you know roughly in the same pace as them, and thought, oh maybe I should have a chat to Vlad about it. And so that's how it started. Um talking about it.

SPEAKER_02 11:32

That's how it started.

SPEAKER_00 11:34

And uh he he was very encouraging. He said, Oh yeah, you know, you have you know a bit of training to do, but I think you're capable of giving it a go. But we had to cross the rotto um the rotto uh channel first, so that was the first first priority.

SPEAKER_01 11:53

And that that rotto swim is uh about 20k, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 11:57

Yep, that's right, 20k. It is it is a magnificent swim for anyone that's done it, they know what it's like. For those that haven't, it is a huge day. There are um well these days I think there might be about 350, 400 solo swimmers, and then there's the same number again of people doing um relays, duos or you know, trios or four people swimming in the so there's an enormous number of boats on the water, you know, must be pushing a thousand boats, starting at about quarter to six in the morning, so the sun's just coming up. The atmosphere is just electric. Um amazing. Yeah, and it's a it's a it's a it's a fantastic day, but it's a that was a I found it, I remember it well, and I had a good support crew there. Um had had my daughter who came across. Uh I think Allison was on that one. And um, but but it was a tough, it was a tough swim for me. It was it was rough. Um I remember there was a boat that capsized about after about 10 K's that was just right where we were swimming. I didn't notice it, but I saw the the video after the event. Um I got really I got really sick, I got really seasick after about 10 K's, uh, which made it even harder because you know you've lost all your nutrition and you sort of you feel you feel very empty and lacking energy after after vomiting for a few hours for a couple of hours. So I was sick between about nine or ten Ks and about 15 or 16 Ks, I think. Hard to hold anything down.

SPEAKER_01 13:36

So it was a spell how do you recover? Well sorry, I was gonna say how how do you recover from that mid-swim if you see sick sort of around nine or ten K and you've got 10 K to go? What what do you do?

SPEAKER_00 13:47

Well you just you just gotta suck it up or get out, you know, and I didn't want to get out. I was so it was it was you know, the pace dropped off a bit and tried to keep some liquids down. Um anyway, got there at the end. But the funny thing was I remember I can remember swimming in and it gets shallow for about a kilometre. You can see the bottom really clearly, and there's this weed on the bottom, and I'm thinking, I'm gonna make this, you know, because you get there's rig, you know, there's a boy uh marker like every kilometre towards the end, and even towards the end, there's like every 500 metres or 250 metres. So you know, you know when you're gonna make it, and I was just thinking, you know, just such a feeling of relief as I could, and then you you know your hand eventually touches the sand and you can stand up, and there's millions of people cheering everyone on. I was spent, I was completely spent, and I went over the finishing line, and Grace had run up to the end where the swimmers come out, and I remember walking up to her saying, Don't ever let me do anything like that ever again. I was I thought this, you know, it was good to make it, but I've ticked that box, that's it, I don't want to do anything more. Um and I fell asleep on the ferry on the way back. I was I was gone. It was uh it was pretty exhausting. But that's amazing, um you know, things you went back. I went back, yeah. Well, shortly after that, or it might have actually been just before the swim. I part of a really important part, one of the most important parts of doing long open water swimmings is getting the nutrition right. And um Vlad had put me in touch with a woman called Tara DeVersi who helps a lot of um English channel swimmers and long open water swimmers. She's based in Queensland. A lot of Vlad swimmers have used her, and a lot of Trent Grimsy swimmers use her. She's got a lot of experience dealing with nutrition. So um I was talking to her and uh we were trying to work out you know my nutrition issues, and I'm I think I'd mentioned, you know, a couple of weeks had passed, and I I'd got over the I'd got over the feeling I felt after Roto and thought, oh, I've got to do this again, and maybe I should at least put the English channel on the radar in case I feel like doing it, because you know the lead time's quite a long time. Um, so I got into she put me in touch, she and Vlad put me in touch with a fellow by the name of Tim Denyer. Tim runs a group called Red Top Swim out of the UK, probably the most experienced coach/slash support person for the English Channel. I think he's taken about 50 or 60 solo swimmers across. So he knows, has been there, done that, seen it all, seen all conditions, seen all types of swimmers, encountered all sorts of problems. So he was the I thought he was a great guy to get in touch with and talk about doing the English Channel. And he also helps facilitate the booking process and getting you the right boat, talking you through um all the logistics. So I did, I actually got in touch with Tim and he said, Um, you know, send me a video of you swimming. And he likes he doesn't like to take on people who he thinks have have got no chance, but anyway, I obviously passed the basic test. And he said, Look, 2018 is completely chocolate block, you never get a boat. So we'll but I've got a slot, number two slot in 2019. So I said, Oh, okay, and it was only, you know, you had to pay a deposit, so I thought, well, it's a you know, it's a$1,000 option I was buying essentially. So I signed up thinking, well, we'll see how we go. And in the meantime, um I was planning a to do rotto again because I was disappointed with the time, disappointed with how I how I swam it, I've got had to overcome the seasickness. So it was quite a big, you know, and in the back of that, thinking also about the channel the following year. Um so I was back in the pool with.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

How many K is the channel?

SPEAKER_00 17:52

So the channel's 33. Um, very different from rotten. So it's another, it's 50% further, but the big issue would be is um it's just much colder water, so you have to prepare for anything between 14 and six, fourteen and eighteen degrees, probably. So you you always prepare for the colder water. Um so that's what we did. So leading uh Rotto was there, so we're now we were now when I say we, you know, like the team, Tara, me, Vlad, um Tim in planning for English Channel, and Rotto was going to be a really nice um waypoint, you know, leading into the um the autumn and winter of in Australia prior to going over to um um England in 2019. But then Tim rang and said, guess what? We've got a slot for um 2018's come up. So now there was only like nine months prep. So anyway, everyone everyone said, No, no, no, you'll be right, you'll be right. So we just we just sort of ramped everything up a little bit and went hard for the next nine months.

SPEAKER_01 19:10

Um so in that nine months leading up to the channel, how many K were you swimming a week sort of in the pool and in the open water?

SPEAKER_00 19:21

Yeah, so the typical program in the pool would be four to five sessions in the pool a week, minimum, probably minimum four Ks. So it was 20, probably regular 20 in the pool, and then you try and back that up on the weekend um with a with an ocean swim that would vary anywhere between, you know, at the beginning it might have only been two hours, but then it would build up to six hours. Um and and then they'd then you have to do the qualifying swims for the English Channel, so you have to do a six-hour swim in 16 degree water in order to tick the box.

SPEAKER_01 20:02

And then then can you choose that anywhere? Can that be anywhere that you choose, or is that the race?

SPEAKER_00 20:07

It has to be ratified, so it doesn't have to be, no, it doesn't have to be a race, but during that period leading into the English Channel summer, our winter, quite a few of the coaches have cold water camps and they tend to hold them in Melbourne, which is good. Vlad has one, so I signed up for that, and then part of that is a six-hour swim. And Trent Grimsey, who is the who is in Queen based in Queensland, he brings his squad down in early Victorian winter, and they do one as well. So I thought, well, I might as well sign up for that too and do twice as much. Um, they both do six-hour swims. Actually, Vlad does an eight-hour swim. Um and I would I reckon those cold water camps are probably um you know some of the most important training you do. Not so much, I mean you do cover a lot of distance in that week, and you do do a six or eight-hour swim in cold water, but it's being around all the other swimmers that are doing doing the swim. A lot of them are planning to do the English channel that year or the next year. And that that sort of just gives you confidence when you're around people doing the same thing and everyone supports each other really well. And um, really important.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

Yeah, I mean, I I I think um that lovely community that you talk about. So many people on on this podcast that I've talked to have have mentioned the wonderful community around open water swimming and master swimming. And I think it's you know, a lot of people think you just swim the English channel by yourself, but there is that whole network that you have um behind you, like your family, your coaches, as you've mentioned, um, your nutritionists, and all those people are there with you following through on that swim.

SPEAKER_00 21:51

Yeah, well is that what you find? W 100%, hundred percent. I mean, we often, you know, there's that there's that uh expression. um it's all about the journey not the destination. Well the journey on this is so much fun because you get to meet so many people you get to meet so many um uh great swimmers um you get to swim in so many fantastic different locations well I did anyway I was fortunate that I got to um yeah so for me when I think about it um I often more think about when I'm reflecting on those swims that I've done often it's more about the training sessions I did or the copies we had afterwards rather than the the actual day I know a lot of people when they talk about their English Channel swims they'll say it was the best day of my life by you know for me for me on the actual day on the actual day which we can talk about in a minute but I I just recall thinking you know like for me it was all about the lead up to this day now now it's the time I'm about to jump in the water all I was interested in was just getting to the other end for me it was that was the culmination of it all and all I wanted to do was just make it on that day. So I don't I don't I don't it's probably a bit sad to say but I don't remember the actual swim on the the English Channel swim that much. I remember before a lot I remember a little bit during I remember a lot afterwards but on the actual night and day it was just head down bum up feed keep going just until you hit the stand at the other end.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

I'll feed that and and did the nutrition uh advice that Tara gave you did that help um after that initial rotness swim yeah well I did I did rotten the second time as well and I was sick again you know so it's a it's a real it's a real issue for me.

SPEAKER_00 23:53

It's I don't get sick when the water's calm I only get sick when it's rough and I still don't think I've really conquered it yet. But fortunately the English Channel there was there was parts where it was a little bit choppy but it was never there was never a swell and it's that slop that seemed seems to bring me unstuck. I think the key with nutrition and the advice I give anyone that is thinking of doing that that a long you know a really long swim like either Rotto or English Channel is do as many long swims as you can in as many varied conditions as you can and test out test out the nutrition because there's no point doing the qualifying swim doing eight hours in super calm water and thinking your nutrition's going to work for you. I think unless you do it test it out really stress test it a few times you don't know what you're gonna hit. And it may well be that you're fine in calm water or maybe with a little bit of a windchot I come unstuck. So I I still we've still got a bit of work to do on that front I think if I if I want to continue doing any of the long swims because I it's it's not good.

SPEAKER_01 25:08

It's really unpleasant you get halfway through and you think oh my god here we are again this is going to be hard the second half's going to be harder than I'd planned but yeah no I think what what kind of food do you oh sorry I was going to say what what kind of food are you are you consuming during the race aside from water yeah and electrolytes.

SPEAKER_00 25:28

Yeah yeah so I think I would I my um with all the people I've seen do it 90% of them stick to liquids and it's a combination of um electrolytes, carbohydrate drinks, gels a lot most people use gels I I just find particularly the sticky ones like um you know there's a few brands like Goo which a lot of people use I just they just make me gag. I just cannot get them down. So I prefer something much more liquid a lot of people drink flat coke particularly towards the end of the swim find that really you know it's just a it cuts through it cuts through you know the the taste you've got in your mouth which I find really good. You know Powerade Ginger cordial I used to like drinking coffee I never drank a lot of coffee but lately I've been drinking coffee before quite a bit of coffee before I swim. I find that quite useful. Yeah but you know and you rotate it so on the long swims we would typically most people would feed every 30 minutes some 40 minutes and on a swim like in the English Channel and rotness for that matter you're not allowed to touch the boat no you know you're not allowed to hold onto a canoe so basically it's uh in the case of rotto you can someone's there next to you on a canoe but on the English Channel there's no kayak swimming alongside you're just swimming alongside the boat and um so you're basically just throwing a bottle on a on a string or a rope with a pop-top lid you you get it get it down as quickly as you possibly can and keep swimming. The key the key with uh um with the the the nutrition stops on those long swims is to train to make them as quickly quick as you possibly can the last thing you want to do is sit there for a minute have a chat with the people on board have them pass on messages from Well Wishers in Australia. Tim Daniel was a very big advocate of getting down say hi and just put your head back down. So it'd be 20 second stop ideally maybe 30 if you're having trouble getting the lid off the bottle but there's no mucking around because you know on a swim like that if you're going to be swimming in the water for 12 hours and you've got stopping every 30 minutes that's 24 stops you know if you add an extra minute to each stop that's 24 minutes. And the key key is just to get in and get it get it over and done with as quickly as possible because the more time you're in the water this was drilled into me by Vlad and Trent and and Tim the more time you're in the water the more things can go wrong. You can get cold the tide can change the wind can get up you can get sick there's a whole bunch of things that can go wrong and if it's going to go wrong it'll typically go wrong towards the end just when you don't want it to go wrong because that's when you're lacking energy so just get it done and get it get out and you know and uh and uh tick the box and when when you're swimming a swim like the English channel what what's the hardest thing for you the physical or the mental uh look I think by the time you get to that point when you're about to jump in the water you've done the you've done all the training I mean I think you most people are generally fit enough yes the last few hours are always going to be harder than the first few hours but mentally it's the I reckon definitely I would I would definitely say the mental challenge you've just got to keep you've just got to keep telling yourself to keep going and and my body never gave up I mean it slowed down I didn't I was fortunate I didn't get cramps uh my shoulders held up pretty well um but you you know I didn't actually have it in the English Channel there was um there are others I actually found the Roto swim harder frankly mentally because I was sick um but yes um you know a lot of people you know there's the expression just keep swimming um my wife always had has this expression um this time will pass and I really like that because whenever I'd sort of feel a little bit you know like oh god this is hard or gee we've still got a long way to go you know I just say this time will pass and I I think you know if I just keep doing this in four hours or five hours or six hours or whatever I will be at the other end. The other option is to get out which I didn't want you know that just I never let that thought come into my mind and and that's what happens you know you you if you just keep swimming and and and just mentally just keep keep rolling the arms over you know you're gonna make it.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

Anyone that gets to that point and they've had the the coaches saying you're capable of doing it you know that's you know the mental side is the thing that is most likely to let you down I reckon yeah yeah I mean it's an it's an amazing accomplishment and yeah I I think as you say you're physically ready when you get there then the mental um sort of hill that you've got to climb sort of for those 12 hours is is um something that I really admire. I think that's a wonderful wonderful thing you've done.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

Yeah but you know yeah what kind of um sea oh sorry was gonna say what what kind of um sea life did you encounter in the fortunately for me in the English Channel none I didn't I had it relatively I went late in the season so I think um a lot of the jellyfish had gone there wasn't much rubbish in the water I didn't hit anything um I had I had nasty jellyfish stings on my first rotto swim big you know the blue bottles that went down my chest that that sting as you know um but yeah English Channel nothing the hard almost the hardest thing for the English Channel for us there's a whole group of Australians ready to go but we had this shocking weather um that hung around for about 10 days so mostly you tend to swim on a neap tide so that's when um the gap between the high and the low tide is um the least so you tend to sort of take a straighter line across the channel but the weather was so bad the Neep tide came and went and and we were just it was howling gales there was we took the ferry across to Calais one day and we had on those one of those big PO ferries we're on the top deck inside and the waves were coming over the top so it was pretty daunting you know when you think I'm meant to be in this in a few days' time or we were meant to be in it you know pride of it. But anyway it calmed down but it was a long wait so we'd all go out for dinner together and you know console ourselves that maybe it'll be better but the you know the and the forecasts are reasonably good a few days out so we you know there were everyone would look at these little windows in the in the wind forecast that would say we might be able to go then. Anyway and eventually it came up I remember on the morning that I swam Tim rang and said you know we're we're going we're going at about I'll come and pick you up at 10 o'clock we'll be on the boat at 11 you'll be swimming by midday and uh he came down to Dover from London and um right uh said um look unfortunately he's just spoken to one of his mates out in the middle it's blown up out there we're not gonna go so you can imagine the letdown he said it might be okay tonight anyway I get a phone call at six or seven o'clock at night saying we're going tonight so be ready at 10 o'clock we'll be on the boat at 11 we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll head off at about midnight which is what happened so um that was good it was finally happening it was it was um exciting daunting but exciting daunting and exciting but also pitch black uh yeah but you you tend to do part of an important part of the training is to do some night swims and I never really worried I never it never let never got me got to me swimming in the dark as long as I could see where I was or see other swimmers um I seem to be able to successfully block out you know what's in the water or being dark you know so um I I was sort of fortunate but it did I think it did unsettle some people but you know I wasn't one of them. And and the sun comes up quite early at that time of the year. So you know the first lights probably at about 4 30 so I only had four and a half hours in the really dark um in the real dark so and then you know once dawn comes then the spirits lift a little bit which was good. Yeah that must be magnificent when you see that sun coming up yeah yeah and then you get then you get across and you you know because it's a huge shipping channel as you know hundreds of huge tankers go through there each day and they're not like the the ships we see coming into Sydney Harbour or Melbourne. These things are 350 metres long they're enormous so it's quite I didn't actually notice them that much but when you look back at the photos that people in the boat take you see you know a little body swimming in the water with this monster ship in the background. They're great they're great photos to have oh they must be amazing and um and the next swim next long swim you did was the Catalina swim is something once once I was that the Manhattan swim yeah that was the Manhattan so then I became then then then this uh trio of swims called the Triple Crown came onto my radar um and I thought well I'm so you know I I reckon I could just swim for another year put a lot of training in for another year and see if I could knock off both the swim around Manhattan which is one of them and then the swim across the Catalina Channel which is between Catalina Island and uh essentially Los Angeles so I you have to apply to do the Manhattan swim they have a limited number they do only took about 60 or 70 per year. And it's like writing a C V what your swimming experience is why you want to do it all that sort of stuff. And they and I didn't make the cut which sort of surprised me I just done the English channel I thought I'd be I thought I'd be um good enough but I didn't make it and um then I got a letter from them saying look we think there's been such demand we're gonna do a few smaller swims where we just take two people out at a time because those those the other swims were about 16 to 20 people at a time and it was a race. But anyway so they said oh look you you're we've given you a slot yes you can do it. So we all went across it was a family holiday it was really really good fun. I tried to put the swim we put the arrival so that I only had one or two days in New York before I swam so that way we could I could relax and go out a bit more after afterwards yeah yeah and it was fantastic. I mean the only I think the only mistake I made on that swim was taking the Circle Line tour which is a boat tour that goes around the island the day before and uh we're on this boat that that circumnavigated Manhattan and it was so long I'm thinking oh my god because it's 45 kilometres around and um and it was a hot day and it just seemed to take forever. But anyway I sort of got over that and it's a great it's a it's a it's it's just a um it's a surreal swim because you know I've been to New York a few times before but the thought of ever swimming in that water one everyone thinks it's revolting and two you know who who swims around who swims around Manhattan and I knew a few people that had uh one of the fellows I trained with in Sydney Johnny Van Wys who I trained with a lot actually for these swims he has a fantastic squad and a hard hardcore squad in Melbourne he'd done it and he'd won it a couple of times the race so um yeah we started down at Battery Park you know right at the bottom of um right at the bottom of Manhattan doesn't always start there sometimes depending on the tides and they do time it's 45 K's but they time it so that when you jump in at the bottom at Battery Park the tide's going up so you swim anti-clockwise you go up the East River then up through what's it called the Harlem River and then then you turn at the top and then come back down. So you swim under these you know it's just it's a bizarre feeling because you're swimming under the Brooklyn Bridge and then the Manhattan Bridge and then past the United Nations and you know you can see um the Empire State Building I breathe to the right unfortunately so I missed out on a lot of it I I was looking at sort of like Brooklyn New Jersey most of the time which is Brooklyn but but I at least you would have got to see the Statue of Liberty. Yeah yeah well breathing right yes um and I used to and so they call it the 20 bridges swim because you swim under 20 bridges that uh went where I started uh Brooklyn was the first and and then the um George Washington bridge on the um on the Hudson which is the only bridge actually that goes over the Hudson is the last so there's 19 bridges between um Brooklyn Bridge and the last one before you which I can't recall the name of before you get into the Hudson and swim down. And by the time you get to the top in theory the tide's changed again and then you go flying down the Hudson and then finish finish at I think it's pier one somewhere down there basically well anyway you finish where you start um yeah it it was great fun. I had Grace and and also my other daughter one of my other daughters on the boat Allison and my son they were on on shore there's not that many great viewing spots because you're quite a long way out particularly when you're coming on the last leak down the Hudson but there's a few spots on the East River and the and the Harlem River where you can get a good view of the swimmer. So that was that was that was good.

SPEAKER_01 40:25

It was a great swim that was amazing.

SPEAKER_00 40:28

And did the tide really assist you it did it really does going up the East River and it was meant to assist me a lot more unfortunately than it did coming down the Hudson because I knew I knew from the times that I could swim how long it was meant to take me between the last bridge and then the George Washington bridge it was it was a it was about three K's I think and I thought well I should be there in 30 or 40 minutes given the tide and 30 or 40 minutes passed and I was only halfway I thought oh no the tide hasn't kicked in I'm gonna have to swim this length but eventually it did. It was just slow or we got something wrong anyway but eventually it kicked in so we hit the financial district and you can look up and you can see the Freedom Towers and again you know when you're that close you sort of know you're gonna make it so you can enjoy it a bit more and it was the tide was really going hard then so I looked up saw the freedom towers then you know swam another five minutes and we're at the finish. You know the little horn goes off and everyone claps and you get on the boat and it's it's uh party time and then soon after that you did the Catalina channel swim. Yes I I I was thinking I could stay in the US but I'll look some people have some you know I think the younger swimmers can probably do it I felt like and the coaches thought it might be wise if I had a six or eight weeks off that was too long to stay so I actually went back to Melbourne and then went back over for Catalina. All the family was tied up so I had a another friend of mine who I'd met on one of um Tim Denia's swim camps a girl called Sam Poulson who's also an English Channel swimmer and had just swum the North Channel which is like the English Channel and steroids same distance but much colder. So she's a really really accomplished swimmer and you just it's it's nice to have someone who's been through it before to have them on the boat with you. No one else was available not that I wouldn't have asked Sam anyway but she was a great person to have on board. Yeah so that's it's um it's another 30 33k swim um not really tired assisted at all and there's no current taking you up and down it's a pretty relatively straight swim straight across. Again starting this one started at midnight but it but it it was pitch black English Channel was dark there was no light at all and a much bigger boat so you couldn't swim as close to it whereas the English Channel you're only usually about three or four metres away from the boat. This one I was probably 30 or 40 metres away but you but you have a kayak as well next to you.

SPEAKER_02 43:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 43:21

So it was it was five to six hours of really really dark water couldn't see but but they have this thing called bioluminescence which everyone had told me about I'd never experienced it before so it's when you put your hand in the water and you stir the water up there's whatever it is algae or whatever that lights up when it gets um agitated. So you have all these blue and white bubbles as every time you put your hand in the water there was just a light show for about five or six hours which was a nice sort of distraction anyway.

SPEAKER_01 43:53

Wow I've never heard of that before that's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 43:56

Yeah no it was it was just it was nice to have and and you Allowed to these swims, um, you're allowed to have a swimmer in the water with you for I think it's no more than one hour at a time, and a maximum of two hours, might be three hours. So Sam jumped in with me um for a brief period um for for about 30 or 40 minutes twice, I think, during that swim. Um so it was nice to have it's nice to have someone else alongside you for a little while. You're not allowed to drive, you know, no drafting or all those sort of rules as usual.

SPEAKER_01 44:30

But no drafting, yeah. Yeah, and then the the just seeing someone there is very nice.

SPEAKER_00 44:35

Yeah, it's comforting and it's a bit of company, even though you don't talk, but um just nice seeing someone else there. Yeah. Yeah, and the sun comes up and that's a wonderful feeling, and it was beautiful and calm towards the end. It was just a mill pond, which I've never had on any of my other swims, so it was lovely to have a really calm finish to it all. Finished on a beautiful beach somewhere just south of Los Angeles and Smuggler's Cove, I think it might have been called. Um swam at Sam Sam had swam ahead, which I didn't know, and she was on the beach waiting for me while I stumbled out of the water. You have to, you know, you have to go above the high tide mark, which I sort of struggled to do, but got there eventually, and you know, again they sound the horn and that's it. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:25

Yeah, and then you're exhilarated because you finished. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 45:29

Big feeling of exhilaration.

SPEAKER_01 45:30

Do you did you see uh encounter any sea life in that um Catalina screen? Well, I didn't.

SPEAKER_00 45:39

I didn't, but funnel yeah, no, you're right, actually. There I recall I finished, and that morning in the LA Times, there was an article about a giant white pointer shark that not only had been spotted off Catalina Island that night or that that evening, but it had attacked a kayaker and left two of its teeth, of which they had the photo of the of the person holding the teeth, giant, these giant teeth, uh, that took up half his palm, um, that he shark had left embedded in the in the side of the kayak. Um, I've kept a copy of that article and um as a little reminder that I was uh look, I think if you're worried about that sort of stuff, you probably don't do these sorts of swims. And I honestly I just didn't even think about sharks. I don't think about sharks ever, really. I might before I get in, but once you're in, look, you just you've got to have the ability to block that stuff out of your mind, I think, otherwise you'd go mad.

SPEAKER_01 46:46

Yes, otherwise you'd go back to the body.

SPEAKER_00 46:47

So that night life, which was which was lovely.

SPEAKER_01 46:51

Um, that's nice. That's very nice.

SPEAKER_00 46:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:56

And do you think you'll go back and do any of those swims again?

SPEAKER_00 46:59

I don't think I'll do those again. Um I'm sort of enjoying swimming again down here now. Um we're only doing you know 3K sessions, and as I said, uh I owned up to wearing a wetsuit, which I will, I promise, drop very soon. Um, there's a group, there's a group that's putting together a uh quite a big group actually of Victorian and New South Wales swimmers that are planning to swim between Capri and Napoli in 2022, which I've signed up for. That's a big swim. Um lovely.

SPEAKER_01 47:36

That'll be nice. Yeah, a lot of local swimmers doing that.

SPEAKER_00 47:39

Yeah, yeah. So um I'll look beyond that, no commitments yet. I've I'm not sure. Maybe I I might you know sign up for some of those nice swim trek swims in the Greek Islands and swim for an hour in the morning and go and have lunch and have a nap in the afternoon. That sounds pretty good idea to me.

SPEAKER_01 48:02

That looks idyllic, yes. Well, before we um finish up for the day, I always like to finish with asking um what your favorite all-time swimming set is that you would do in the pool. So, what's your your favorite go-to that you do? That's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 48:22

I was only talking, I was talking to uh Sam actually, Sam who came on Catalan swimming that she used to love doing 1k time trials. Um, and I said to her, I've never done a 1k time trial because they exposed, they exposed too much, I reckon. In my case, they would, but I'm okay for like 700 and then I'd drop off. But um, yeah, I used to, you know, in the lead up to I love doing descending sets. So uh a big one, the big one I would do training for the English channel or any of these long swims would be if I want to do a long 5 or 6k session, I'd I'd start off and do a kilometre. So there you go. I've already broken what I said I'd do. I said I did 1k time 12. I'd do 1k and then 900, 800, 700, 600, 500, 400, 300, 200, 100. And I love getting shorter each time. I just find mentally it just helps me out. But often we would do uh a mate of mine, um Simon and I would do who's you know, you know, Simon, the from um Yes, yeah. Simon Bower from Marlins. We would jump in and do 54321, which was a pretty easy, easy set. We might do it twice if we were feeling enthusiastic. So yeah, I like those sort of things. And we would, you know, back in the day we'd we'd be able to stick reasonably close to 130 pace, probably. Um it might slip a bit on the on the longer on the longer on the longer um parts of those sets, but um that's what we'd aim for anyway. With a little bit of a rest in between each one.

SPEAKER_02 50:05

Yeah, that's yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:06

Anything descending is good. Anything where anything where I can see half or even if it's a pyramid and I go up, but that I love being able to come back down the other side. Doesn't matter if it's in the pool or if it's in the ocean. If once I know I'm halfway, I feel like I'm there.

SPEAKER_01 50:26

Yeah, it's a great feeling. Yeah, yeah, it certainly is. Well, thank you so much for joining us today, Rod, and giving us an insight into all your um open water swims that you've done and and being the holder of the Triple Crown, which is a um a coveted title. And um very good luck with your swimming in the future. And um we'll hopefully I'll see you in Melbourne soon.

SPEAKER_00 50:50

Yeah, I'll catch you in uh pool soon.

SPEAKER_01 50:55

Yeah, lovely. Have a Merry Christmas and we'll uh we'll see you soon.

SPEAKER_00 50:59

Thanks, Danielle. Bye bye.

SPEAKER_01 51:00

Okay. Okay, thanks. Bye.