Torpedo Swimtalk Podcast

Torpedo Swimtalk with Becky Cleavenger - US Masters Swimmer

• Danielle Spurling • Episode 121

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Ever wondered what it takes to be a master swimmer? Join me as I sit down for a captivating conversation on this episode of Torpedo Swimtalk Podcast with  accomplished masters swimmer, Becky Cleavenger. Hailing from sunny California, Becky takes us on a deep dive into her fascinating journey, from her early introduction to swimming at the tender age of four to her triumphant return to the sport after a 16-year hiatus.

We dissect the essential components of a swimmer's training regimen. Learn from Becky as she details her exercise routine that not only enhances her performance but also assists her in managing her health. She generously shares her unique approach in dealing with scoliosis and a dislocated rib, and offers an insight into her strength training sessions. For those curious about what a typical training week looks like for a master swimmer, Becky has you covered!

Lastly, we navigate the exciting world of swim events, discussing strategies and the importance of staying hydrated. With her firsthand experience at the Budapest World Championships and her long-term goals in the swimming arena, Becky's story will surely inspire. From how to adjust to time zones when traveling for a meet to her enthralling adventures in open water swimming and surf lifesaving, this episode is packed with valuable insights from a seasoned swimming expert!


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Danielle Spurling:

Hello Swimmers and welcome to another episode of Torpedo Swim Talk podcast. I'm your host, Danielle Spurling, and each week I chat to a master swimmer from around the world about their swimming journey. Today, I'm joined by the delightful US master swimmer, Becky Cleavenger. Becky shares her insights into swimming masters in California and we chat about her training, her racing and how she's helped improve a back injury that she has with some pretty specific exercises. I think you're going to want to hear all about it. Let's hear from Becky now. Hi, Becky, welcome to the podcast.

Becky Cleavenger:

Thank you. I'm a big fan of your podcast. I listen to almost all of the episodes.

Danielle Spurling:

Oh lovely, that's really nice to hear. What part of the US are you coming to us from today?

Becky Cleavenger:

I live in Southern California, so kind of between Los Angeles and Santa Barbara would be my guesstimate in a little place. Nobody's ever heard of. What's that little place called? It's called Santa Rosa Valley. Even people who live like 10 miles away sometimes don't know where it is.

Danielle Spurling:

Oh nice, is it on the coast.

Becky Cleavenger:

I am, as the crow flies, probably 10 miles from the coast, but driving it takes a little more to get there because you got to go around. I live in a valley and I get out of the valley and into the other side to get to the coast so what's the local pool that you swim at.

Becky Cleavenger:

I swim at two different pools. I swim with a club, the multi sport masters, and we swim at two different pools California Lutheran what is it? California Lutheran University Community Pool and CME Valley, rancho, cme that's also a community pool. That's a 50 meter pool. Yep, that one's 25 yards.

Danielle Spurling:

Ah, 25 yards. And do they change that? Or is it just a solid 25 yard pool?

Becky Cleavenger:

It's only capable of being a 25 yard pool. Yeah, it's kind of a lessons pool. It's community pool, so big focus on swim lessons for the kids.

Danielle Spurling:

Yes, what fun do you prefer swimming at the 25 yard or the 50 meter?

Becky Cleavenger:

Well, the 25 yards, pretty close to home. The 50 meters is just 50 meters, so probably that one.

Danielle Spurling:

Yeah, of course, yeah. When was the last time you got to swim in?

Becky Cleavenger:

This morning. Yes, it was last day of taper for our regional zone meets coming up starting tomorrow actually. So yeah, this morning I swim in the mornings.

Danielle Spurling:

Yeah, same, same, yeah. So where's the regional meet being held?

Becky Cleavenger:

Mission, viejo, nice, you familiar. We have a lot of meets, even those tier pro swim series, I think they're still called tier. They have a lot of big meets. They're like elite level meets and even master's meets.

Danielle Spurling:

Yes, yeah, I've heard of the pool. I've never been there, but it sounds like a great place to go for a swim meet.

Becky Cleavenger:

Yeah, they also have USMS Nationals there. They've held it several times and they're going to hold it again, I think, next summer. Is it next summer? No, next summer is Indianapolis where the Olympic trials are taking place. The following year it's going to be at Mission Viejo, again Nice.

Danielle Spurling:

I saw that the US Nationals long course was on in Florida just over the last week. Why do they hold oh, I don't. I'm asking you. You may not know, but why do they hold that at the same time as the world master's championships?

Becky Cleavenger:

You know I don't think they typically do, but you know how world's got delayed multiple times because of the whole pandemic situation. I think you know at some point you kind of got to land on a date and stick with it, and I think that's why so typically they are. There are like rules about like having cushioning between even local meets like our regionals meet can't be held the same weekend as Nationals, so there's like a non-compete clause in there.

Danielle Spurling:

Yes.

Becky Cleavenger:

Yeah.

Danielle Spurling:

And how long does the regionals go?

Becky Cleavenger:

for that's three days Friday, saturday, sunday. What events have you entered? I have 50, 100 and 200 free 200. I am 50 fly and 50 breast.

Danielle Spurling:

Oh nice, A good spread.

Becky Cleavenger:

Yeah, good spread and a whole bunch of relays.

Danielle Spurling:

Oh, that'll be so much fun. I love relays. Yeah, do you have 50, 100 and 200 relays?

Becky Cleavenger:

They offer them. I've not in an 800 free relay Bomber you look so good. No, actually. Yeah, it's just so hard. But yeah, normally I am. I mean, that's kind of our team special to your, the 800 free relays, and so yeah, normally, yes, but not this time. I have multiple 200 distance relays and 400 distance relays.

Danielle Spurling:

That'll be so much fun. Well, good luck the weekend. It'll be a great one. I hope you get some good weather too.

Becky Cleavenger:

Yeah, me too Needing not too hot.

Danielle Spurling:

Yes, yeah, of course, yeah. So take us back to the beginning of your swimming journey. How did you first get involved in swimming?

Becky Cleavenger:

Swimming, swimming when I was little Really little actually. My mom put my sister and I in swimming lessons very young. She grew up on Homestead in Canada and her brother drowned on the homestead and I'm pretty sure she was not going to let her kids drown. So we were both through all of the lessons, including, like, the life saving one. I was four, my sister was five and she was not yet convinced that we were good, solid in the water. So she put us on the swim team and kind of never looked back. Wow. So yeah, I was on swim team at age four. It was not great I was. I remember being in the way and hanging on the lane line and stuff like that, because you know you're in there with everybody and everybody else was a lot older. So, yeah, a lot of hanging on the lane line.

Danielle Spurling:

And so did you swim right through high school and into college.

Becky Cleavenger:

I did. I swam through high school, through college and even a little bit thereafter I did. I was a beach lifeguard and I did like surf life saving competitions for quite a few years after college. So basically open water swimming, surf ski, board paddling, that kind of thing. But yeah, and then I didn't stop swimming until I had my son, my first child, and then I stopped, stopped, stopped completely.

Becky Cleavenger:

Stopped 16 years. Yeah, I remember taking them to the beach and I felt like they were old enough to leave them on the towel for a few minutes and I swam straight out and then I turned around and I'm like good Lord, I am like a victim. I am no longer a rescuer.

Danielle Spurling:

I'm like a victim.

Becky Cleavenger:

This is really bad and I turned around and swam back in and that was that. But yeah, so big hiatus.

Danielle Spurling:

Yeah, so 16 years out of the water, wow. And so what got you? Like, completely Completely yes, I hear you I was pretty much 25 years out of the water. Oh, wow, okay, I had a similar thing too. I we go away to the beach every Christmas and I thought, oh, I'll just do an ocean swim, I'm sure I'll be, you know, an ocean swim race, I'm sure I'll be fine. And it was at quite a rough beach and that was a wake up call, big wake up call. And then after that I thought, oh, I think I'll get back into a bit of training. So it is funny how you you sort of put it on the back burner, but it never leaves you when you've had that introduction to swimming.

Becky Cleavenger:

Yeah, for sure.

Danielle Spurling:

And so with the masters, how did you get involved in that after that 16 years out?

Becky Cleavenger:

Well, I kind of I wanted to get back into swimming and I always kind of made the excuse that I didn't really have time, and that went on for good few years.

Becky Cleavenger:

And then the company that I was working for at the time used to sponsor a triathlon called Breath of Life Triathlon and it was raising money for a disease that I work in pharmaceutical business, and there was a disease that we treated and they sponsored the triathlon. So they asked me, like two weeks beforehand, if I would swim the swim leg of their triathlon relay. I'm like ooh, two weeks, and it was like a mile, so in the ocean, which actually the ocean part is good for me. And so I'm like sure, thinking probably like you, I can do this. But I immediately like found pools where I could go start doing some laps swimming and try to get in shape, and I did that for like a week. And then the lessons kicked in the swim lesson, and the whole schedule changed and it became impossible for me to go do the lap swimming after the first week. So there was masters in the pool next door. So I walked over there and talked to the masters coaches and that was the beginning of my master's journey.

Danielle Spurling:

Oh wow, I love that. Yeah, and have you been with that same club since then?

Becky Cleavenger:

I have same club Nice.

Danielle Spurling:

Yeah, and so how many? Sorry, what was the name of the club? Again, I know you mentioned it before.

Becky Cleavenger:

Yeah, kaneo Valley Multisport Masters, right? Oh, that's got a silent J, has it? Oh, kaneo? Yeah, it's Spanish, like we live while we're in Southern California, not too far from Mexico, and a lot of stuff has Spanish names. So Kaneo Valley is the Valley next door to the Valley that. I live in. Right, it means rabbit Rabbit Valley.

Danielle Spurling:

Oh cute how big is the club.

Becky Cleavenger:

Ooh, you know that's a really good question and I'm not quite sure. I think maybe about 180 people, right? Okay, not sure it changes. You know it's summertime now, so it's a little bit bigger wintertime. Yes, a lot of people go away.

Danielle Spurling:

Of course, of course.

Becky Cleavenger:

Yeah.

Danielle Spurling:

And what does a typical training week look like for you?

Becky Cleavenger:

Swimming wise, I swim four days a week, if it's if I'm sort of gearing up for meats and stuff. And this is my age up here. I'm 60 for long course I'm 59, but I'm 60 for long course. My birthday's in November, so I'm gearing up for some meats, including the one this weekend, would like to put some nice times down and so I'm swimming four days a week. Sometimes I add a fifth day which is sort of a skills and drills day which we really don't have time for during practice. We have one hour practices and a lot of people are there to get a workout in, like they want their fitness exercise. And then there's the triathletes and they're really not into skills and drills. So some of us go like an additional day and do skills and drills on our own.

Danielle Spurling:

So that's why swimming yeah, I think that's pretty normal across the board for master swimmers of around that age. For sure, I'm swimming four times a week too, but I really want to try and get that fifth session in as well for those skills and drills. We don't do enough kicking. I think I love kicking.

Becky Cleavenger:

I go and do a pure kicking set.

Danielle Spurling:

If I could, just a whole session on kicking, I love it.

Becky Cleavenger:

Yeah, I like kicking. I like it all actually, I like doing everything, I like a little variety, but yeah, it's definitely something we do much less of, even though my coach keeps saying how important it is. A lot of people they just want to swim their laps.

Danielle Spurling:

I know, I know, and I always sort of huck back to the time when I was swimming as an age group and you'd have enough time to do two or three main sets, whereas now, in a master's workout of an hour, it's just one main set. So you can't I suppose the coach can't really give a kicking set during, because other people don't want to do that.

Becky Cleavenger:

Right, right. Yeah, the triathletes want to save their legs, which is totally understandable, so that's just not an emphasis for them.

Danielle Spurling:

Yes, and do you do much form form stroke mixed into that, or? I know triathletes don't generally like to do that, do they?

Becky Cleavenger:

Yeah, our coach always gives a freestyle option, but we have days where it's a little bit more stroke. We call it stroke, not form, a little more stroke focused. But yeah, there's a lot of freestyle. I would say we probably swim 75% freestyle and then, for those of us who want to do stroke, we do stroke, and then for people who are just strictly backstrokeers, they just will go to the back of the lane and do backstroke when everybody else is doing freestyle.

Danielle Spurling:

Yes, yeah, that's the way to cope with it. For sure, how far do you normally go in a session?

Becky Cleavenger:

I would say between 2,500 and 3,000 yards.

Danielle Spurling:

Yes, yeah, usually closer to 2,500, I'd say yes, and in your four swim sessions a week, do you do any dry land on top of that or any strength work?

Becky Cleavenger:

I do strength training twice a week, go to a really good gym, do small group strength training sessions twice a week and I absolutely love it. I've been doing it for years, years and years and years. When I wasn't swimming, I was doing a lot of strength training. So, yeah, I do that two days a week. I don't really do dry land per se. I do a lot of stretching I do. What else do I do? I hang You're familiar with hanging or you just hang from like a pull-up bar or any kind of a bar that you can hang from.

Becky Cleavenger:

I do that. I did it. I was told it was good for my shoulders, but it's been a game changer for my lower back. So I'm hanging probably four days a week. Wow, not very long. It's only like I can't hang. My fingers aren't strong enough to do it for very long. So I think the longest I can go is a minute 30. That's impressive, wow. And my fingers aren't getting any stronger, but yeah, it's been a game changer for my back.

Danielle Spurling:

Do you keep your scapula or your shoulder blades just in the same position or do you move them up and down within the hang? Sometimes?

Becky Cleavenger:

I'll do like 20 seconds of just hanging long and trying to just really stretch everything out, and then I'll do like a shrug for 10 seconds and then just to kind of also break up the pain, get my mind off the pain, where you're like concentrating on doing something a little bit differently, because my hands really hurt.

Danielle Spurling:

Yeah, that grips strength. I figured I'll get stronger, but they're taking a while, and so how long did it take you to build up to a minute 30 hang?

Becky Cleavenger:

Oh, not long. I think probably two weeks max. I think the first time I did it I probably did like 30 seconds of my hands were screaming my fingers and then, yeah, not very long, but once I got to that minute 30, I haven't gotten any further.

Danielle Spurling:

So that's been like a year. Well, it's pretty impressive, so that's great to hear, though, that it's really helped your shoulders. Have you had any shoulder issues before that? Shoulders and back.

Becky Cleavenger:

Not injuries per se. I get some clicking, some kind of my range of motion, especially in my left shoulder, isn't as good as it probably should be and there's like a little bit of tightness and maybe a little bit of pain right there, but no injuries.

Danielle Spurling:

Oh, that's good to hear, and you lower back. That's just more of a tightness as well, is it?

Becky Cleavenger:

I have scoliosis and I think it's just was catching up with me and I couldn't figure out anything. I was doing all kinds of physical therapy and things like that trying to make that better, but when I discovered hanging sounds so weird hanging when I discovered hanging, I was doing it for my shoulders, I was doing it for your chest. It opens up your chest and stuff. And what I realized pretty quick is that my back did not hurt at all.

Danielle Spurling:

It's really impressive. Ever anymore.

Becky Cleavenger:

So yeah, yeah, so I'm sticking with that. Yeah, for sure.

Danielle Spurling:

And the stretching that you do. Do you do that prehab sort of before you hop in the water, or is this just something that you do each?

Becky Cleavenger:

day. No, yeah, I do it in the evenings. I get up pretty early to go to swimming and I'm going to get up early early on the floor and stretch. Now I do it in the evenings about a half an hour, 20 minutes to 30 minutes of this little stretching routine I have, and it's mainly for my back, for the scoliosis I get a dislocated rib. I used to. I haven't had it in a really long time since I've been doing the stretching routine that I do.

Danielle Spurling:

And do you use any equipment with the stretching, or is it just yourself on the floor with a mat?

Becky Cleavenger:

Foam roller and a peanut, little two balls that are stuck together, a peanut and a band for stretching out my hands.

Danielle Spurling:

Nice. Talk us through a session that you would do in the pool, obviously. How far do you go in the warm up? What kind of main set do you do? Give us a bit of an insight into that.

Becky Cleavenger:

Okay, warm-ups, typically, let's say 222 or 212 or 211, so swim, then kick, then drill or pull depends on the day, so whatever that adds up to, but that's pretty typical. Same thing for a meat. I might go a little bit longer on the swim part, like three, three, one is hard to kick in a meat warm-up just because everybody's swimming or doing other stuff, sometimes vertical kick if there's a deep end. So yeah, swim, kick, drill for warm-up. Then we do speed builders, like maybe two sets of 350s descending, and then usually we jump right into whatever the main set's going to be. So gosh, it could be anything. It could be anything, could be stroke, could be free. It's usually free.

Becky Cleavenger:

I'm trying to think of one we've done recently. I've been tapering for about a week and a half, so none are coming to mind, but the main set can be like 1,000 yards, meters, usually nothing. We usually do pretty short distances, so like hundreds, sometimes we do a set of 1650s which is actually kind of fun One fast, one easy, two fast, one easy, three fast, one easy, four fast, one easy like that. That's a set we've repeated multiple times. We'll do hundreds, like maybe 10, 100s to send one through three, four through six, seven through nine and then the last one's fast too, and not very often Wednesday's distance day. I kind of avoid it, which is really pathetic, because I need the endurance, but I do tend to kind of avoid it and I do have to have a sleep in day.

Danielle Spurling:

What time interval would you do those 1650s on the ones that you just explained?

Becky Cleavenger:

If it's long course, usually about a minute, if it's short course, 50 seconds.

Danielle Spurling:

And how about the hundreds? What repeat time?

Becky Cleavenger:

If I'm not lucky, she'll put us on 120, which is brutally hard for me. That's yards. That'd be 130, 135 long course, which is hard. I need my rest. The longer I get, the more rest I need. Or the wimper I get one of the two, but yeah, usually pretty short rest. We don't do long rest stuff. We don't do 50s on two minutes or anything like that. A minute is 110, I would say is as generous as it ever gets.

Danielle Spurling:

Yes, nice. And is it the same coach that takes all the sessions across the time.

Becky Cleavenger:

No, the same coach writes all the sessions, but we have three different coaches that I go to workouts with. I don't go in the evenings, I don't go at noon, but in the mornings I have three different coaches that coach the workouts.

Danielle Spurling:

Nice, and do you find that there's a lot of difference between their technique or their sort of their style?

Becky Cleavenger:

Their style for sure. Yeah, especially, some are just like do your thing. If you're doing something terribly wrong, they'll stop you and tell you what it is. Others are on you. How's that streamline coming off the wall? So yeah, there's definitely a difference in style, and there's a lot of people for them to watch too, so they don't see everything and all the bad habits. And they also don't see what's going on inside the bubbles.

Danielle Spurling:

And which style do you prefer? Do you like to be sort of, you like to have someone looking at you so that you stay honest, or do you prefer to go under the radar?

Becky Cleavenger:

Yeah, no, I think feedback's a gift, so they can generously gift me feedback all they want. I do find it really hard to change things, Like mentally exhausting actually to try to fix the easiest of things, like just even not arching my back because you're concentrating on it so hard. I find it really really challenging to try to fix things. So I kind of need to work on one, maybe two at a time.

Danielle Spurling:

And what's the one thing that they pick up on that you need to sort of fix with your technique with your freestyle.

Becky Cleavenger:

Well, for freestyle I don't get a lot of feedback on my freestyle I will say breaststroke. My coach got in my head for sure about breaststroke, like, basically, I wasn't like fingertips down, I wasn't really grabbing the water and pulling the water, which seems like an easy thing to improve.

Danielle Spurling:

Yes, of course. Yeah, yeah, and so you were a swimmer during high school and college and obviously now you're back to competitions. What is the sort of the way that you're approaching your competition this week in the same way that you did as an age group and in college, or is it a different mindset? Give us a bit of insight into that.

Becky Cleavenger:

Yeah, I would say it's 180 degrees polar opposite mindset, like I think I was a head case in high school and college, you know just really over thought things. I was so afraid of failure that I think I didn't even try as hard as I could have. And now my mindset is basically if I give it my all, you know, if I execute whatever the plan happens to be and don't just like go mind numb during the race but actually do what I intended to do and give it 100% effort, then I'm happy, no matter what the time on the clock is at the end of the race.

Danielle Spurling:

Yeah, absolutely. That's what master swimming is all about, isn't it? Because you get to this age and you think, well, I'm really only racing against myself, even though there are people in the race, and it's nice to get the places, but it's about your personal best time now. I think yeah.

Becky Cleavenger:

Yeah, and I honestly don't care. Yeah, no, same exact thing. I don't care what place I get. I kind of care what the clock says and whether I you know whether I gave it my all if I didn't give it my all. I never don't give it my all, I'll tell you that. But back in the past, you know, I definitely had plenty of occasions when I didn't give it 100%, and that's the most disappointing thing, I think, and that's the thing that like gnaws at you is when you basically fail yourself by not giving it 100% effort. So, yeah, I never don't do that in a meet. Now, I always give it 100% effort. So I don't want to. You know, I think that's the thing you walk away with and it's like dang, I wish I had that back. I'd go do you know these three things differently, or whatever, and I don't want to have those regrets.

Danielle Spurling:

Do you feel like your focus on your events has changed during your master's career or are you still doing the same events and sort of what's your pet event?

Becky Cleavenger:

Probably either the 50 free or the 200 free, although I've sort of had a bad relationship with the 200 free the last couple of years where I haven't been able to do a good one. So actually I haven't swung one this year. I'm like taking a hiatus from that, but I do think it's one of my better events. 50, 200, somehow there's hundreds a little bit of an Achilles heel for me, and when I was in college, high school and college it was 50 free, 100 free, and I was like a drop dead sprinter then where, like, the 100 free was way worse than the 50 free as far as my competitiveness.

Danielle Spurling:

Yeah, I feel like you. I look, I think there are a lot of people in masters who are super sprinters, but I feel for myself I don't know whether you feel this too but my speed has dropped off. I used to be really good at 50 and 100, but it's now sort of 200, maybe even 400 is sort of coming. You know, I can keep the pace going steady, but I find it really hard to get to a top speed over 50 very quickly.

Becky Cleavenger:

I haven't done anything over a 200 for probably a couple of years and I used to do the 400 free. Used to be on my dance card. It hasn't been for a really long time because I don't really do anything to build endurance. I used to ride bikes a lot and we have great hills around here, really good climbing and that was really good for endurance, so that was a nice supplement to swimming. I don't do that anymore, so I'm a little bit afraid of the endurance aspect of doing like a 400 free. Yeah, absolutely.

Danielle Spurling:

I've got one coming up actually in October, a short course, one which is much more appealing than a long course 400.

Becky Cleavenger:

I really should. I was actually thinking I do want this year, but it hasn't happened yet, so we'll see. Maybe, short course meters.

Danielle Spurling:

Is this meet this weekend Long course or short course?

Becky Cleavenger:

Long course yeah we're a long course season. Yeah, this will be the end, I think, of long course season, and then we go into kind of a little bit of a break and then short course meters Right.

Danielle Spurling:

So is this sort of like the state championships of California. The regents it is.

Becky Cleavenger:

So it's our zone, which is Southern California, utah, arizona, nevada. I think that's our zone. It's not Northern California, interestingly enough. Right, yeah, but yeah, so it's a few states, there are not a lot of. I don't know if anybody from Utah is coming. There's some people from Arizona and Nevada coming.

Danielle Spurling:

Oh, that'll be really nice. Yeah, yeah, and with you, with your 50 free that you're going to do this weekend. How far do you go on your dolphin kicks underwater and how? Or? What I was going to say was how many breaths do you take in the 50?

Becky Cleavenger:

Oh, you think I have that planned out. I'll do at least five dolphin kicks, but I do think my swimming for freestyle is faster than my underwater dolphin kicking, so I'll pop up five off. A dive is probably where I'll be, and then, breathing wise, I'll try to keep it to two. Yes, okay, so two, all the way, yeah, yeah, okay.

Danielle Spurling:

And do you put your head down from the flags to the wall, or are you still breathing twos into the wall?

Becky Cleavenger:

Oh no, not every second, but I will breathe twice during the whole 50. Oh, sorry, I misunderstood. Maybe three times, hopefully just twice. Yeah, Sorry about that. I think I've touched the times when you said that. I think my coach has said easily a thousand times don't breathe between the flags and the wall.

Danielle Spurling:

Yeah, yeah Well, it's the aim, of course, not to do that, but sometimes you need that breath, don't you?

Becky Cleavenger:

Sometimes you do. Yes, the older you get, the more you need it too.

Danielle Spurling:

I think that's right, and do you know when those two breaths are coming, or are you just going to take it as it comes?

Becky Cleavenger:

Yeah, I've heard that. I count my strokes, so somewhere around 16 will be the first one, and then the second one will be when I need it.

Danielle Spurling:

Yes, yeah, how many strokes do you do for the lap?

Becky Cleavenger:

Well, that I don't precisely know. I know in practice it's 45, but in a meet I don't know I just kind of go one, two, three, you know, and I count them and then I take my breath. When I take my breath and then I start again. So I don't like count the total, yeah 45.

Danielle Spurling:

You must have a high stroke rate, a very fast stroke rate. Yeah.

Becky Cleavenger:

Hey, that's down from like 52 or 53. Oh, really, that's an improvement. Yeah, I hope I'm holding on to more water these days than I used to, but yeah, I mean it's a 50, so, yeah, yeah, of course you have to have a fast stroke rate in the 50. Yeah, turn and burn Of course.

Danielle Spurling:

And what was the other 50 stroke you were doing? Was it breast stroke or butterfly?

Becky Cleavenger:

Oh, I got breast stroke and butterfly.

Danielle Spurling:

Yeah, and how do you approach both of those?

Becky Cleavenger:

Well, the fly. I have a plan I should do seven or eight underwater dolphin kicks and then breathe every six strokes. And I have an issue I'm trying to work out with my butterfly where I kick up but not down, where I should be kicking down to pull out right to breathe, and I recognize that I'm kicking up and not down, which is bad when I breathe. So if I don't breathe, don't have to worry about that. So I'm going to try to breathe every six and do seven or eight underwater dolphin kicks.

Danielle Spurling:

And the breast stroke. With your technique that you've just fixed with your hands, hopefully you'll get a good time. But what is just strategy with the breast stroke?

Becky Cleavenger:

I just go as fast as I can and try to keep my stroke together. I'm like breast strokes New for me. I've always been by far my worst stroke by far and somehow I've sort of actually I can't say somehow one of my teammates once was kicking behind me and we were doing breast stroke kick and she's like Becky, she's like not like that. And then she showed me how she does breast stroke kick and I'm like, oh, and literally for five years I've been working on that and decided to you know, try a breast stroke, a 50. That's all I can do. I've done a hundred. It was not good, but I can get the 50 and so, yeah, I think, just try to make sure I'm grabbing water and pulling and keeping my kick narrow and the timing's everything for me.

Danielle Spurling:

And you're doing a 200 medley as well. Individual medley.

Becky Cleavenger:

Yeah.

Danielle Spurling:

Yeah, so you're obviously quite strong with butterfly. How's your back stroke?

Becky Cleavenger:

Back stroke used to be my second best stroke. I think it's now my worst stroke. Oh, why is?

Danielle Spurling:

that.

Becky Cleavenger:

Working on some issues there. I don't quite know, but I get little tidbits from people. The latest one I got is there's no rotation. Okay, they're pretty, they can be harsh, my teammates, but in a good way harsh like there's no rotation. And I've heard before there's no catch. And once I met, beyondy told me you're dragging your elbow and then I thought I fixed it. I like did that, concentrate on it for like two weeks thing and thought I was doing it right. And I asked him to look and he looks and he goes. Only you can control your Like. Oh, that was brutal.

Becky Cleavenger:

I thought I had but now I think I have.

Danielle Spurling:

Dragging elbow under the water.

Becky Cleavenger:

You mean Like dropping it when you're pulling, so your elbow's leading. Yeah, who knew Matt? For probably my whole high school and college career, nobody ever said anything and yeah, it was Matt.

Danielle Spurling:

Wow, and now that you've mentioned Matt, we have to talk about him, so he's one of the coaches there is he.

Becky Cleavenger:

He's one of the swimmers. He is not a coach, but he'll give advice, which is fabulous. Of course, he's like the technique master he's the fastest guy in the pool and he's the slowest guy in the pool, depending on whether he's supposed to be going fast or slow, and it always looks so easy. Yeah, and I think I see him constantly working on technique, like focusing on his technique.

Danielle Spurling:

He has one of the most beautiful freestyle techniques I've ever seen.

Becky Cleavenger:

Yeah.

Danielle Spurling:

Just beautiful. I always admired his freestyle, yeah, he still does.

Becky Cleavenger:

It's incredible and it's so long. Of course he's six foot seven, but it is so long, like my 45 strokes. He probably does like 22. I'm going to get maybe last who knows, is he ricey at all these guys? He'll rally. If we try to get him to rally and go to a meet, I think he just prefers to swim for the joy of swimming and not the, you know, racing. When an announcer says Matt beyondy swimming, like literally everybody gets up and lines the pool deck and I think he'd prefer not to have that kind of attention.

Danielle Spurling:

Yes, yeah Well, he's already reached the heights of everything he can do in swimming, so he's just doing it for the love of it.

Becky Cleavenger:

Yeah, and he's an incredibly humble, just kind and, you know, never talks about himself unless you specifically ask him. I asked him. I heard preparing for one of our skills in drill session. I'm like I heard I was looking up best drills for butterfly and one of them was the beyondy drill and I'm like what's that? So next time I saw him at practice I asked him what the beyondy drill was and he's like no idea. They didn't drill. When he was swimming, nobody did drills, but they called it the beyondy drill and he had no idea what it was. So I still don't know what it is. Yeah.

Danielle Spurling:

Oh well. Well, that's funny because on this podcast I always ask people, often in our favorite five questions, what their favorite drill is, and people have mentioned the beyondy drill.

Becky Cleavenger:

I've heard it, yeah, I've heard it, and I'm like, well, what is that, matt?

Danielle Spurling:

I just assumed it was him, so that's really good information yeah.

Becky Cleavenger:

He was of no help there, and heading into this competition this weekend.

Danielle Spurling:

I wanted to ask you a little bit about your nutrition and you mentioned you'd been tapering. Do you do anything alongside that with your nutrition or do you change that coming into a competition?

Becky Cleavenger:

No, I really don't. No, because I try to eat healthy no matter what. I try to get a lot of fruits and vegetables and unprocessed foods and just do that in general, so I don't really change anything up before a meat. I think one thing that's changed for me for meats is I used to be able to sit there all day and not eat anything and not be hungry. I don't know if it was because I was nervous or what, but I wouldn't be hungry and I'd just sit there and not eat. And three or four days of that and there's a price to pay, and eventually it sort of became evident to me. So now I basically make myself eat during a swim.

Danielle Spurling:

Meat, yeah, so fruit dates, string cheese light stuff, and do you have a good pre-race meal in the morning beforehand, or are you still someone who needs a very light breakfast before they start?

Becky Cleavenger:

No, no, I can eat. I can eat, yeah, and it doesn't matter what it is, I mean, and try not to make it something greasy and that takes forever to digest, but anything really, whatever's being offered.

Danielle Spurling:

Do you just drink water for hydration, or do you drink sports drinks? What do you do in that respect?

Becky Cleavenger:

Yeah, so I don't really drink sports drinks per se, but I do do salt stick. Do you guys have salt stick?

Danielle Spurling:

They're like little electrolyte tabs that you can choose Electrolyte tab.

Becky Cleavenger:

Yeah, okay, I'll do that and drink a lot of water for the most part, but I don't do sports drinks.

Danielle Spurling:

Yeah, no, I think I mean electrolyte. Yeah, A lot of people have those during the day when they're swimming. But yeah, I think the salt sticks or hydrolyte I have, which is similar but it's just got electrolytes in it.

Becky Cleavenger:

I don't like Gatorade and I think it mixes really badly with chlorine, so like if I drink Gatorade and then I get in the warm-up pool, ew just tastes terrible.

Danielle Spurling:

I understand, yeah, and after this meet this weekend, what other meets have you got on the horizon? What are some of your long-term goals that you have?

Becky Cleavenger:

For first weekend of December is probably what I think is the funnest meet of the year. It's our short course meters, regionals or zones, depending on who's hosting a zone meet, so that one's really fun and it's short course meters and yeah, something about it kind of kicks off the Christmas season for me, and so that's that would be the next meet, and then that's kind of it. I mean, I want to go to national one of the nationals next year we have we have Indianapolis, and I'm forgetting where the other one was, but I'll go to one of them most likely, and this past year it was in Irvine, which is right down the road, a couple hour drive. For me that was easy. But I also like traveling. I like the aspect of swimming that kind of gets me to go places like.

Becky Cleavenger:

One of the best was Budapest. My only worlds that I've ever gone to was Budapest and we tacked on some additional travel and it was amazing. So, and you know states too, you know states in the US it's fun to go to different states that I've not been to before.

Danielle Spurling:

Yes, of course. How did you like the whole worlds experience? It's pretty different to swimming at a US national, as I assume.

Becky Cleavenger:

Yeah, it was a great experience For me. I think the performance would be hard. Like the performance aspect, I did not swim well, but I had a heck of a time and I, you know, no regrets whatsoever, but I don't know how early I'd have to get there to get used to the time zone. It's pretty substantial change for us. And then you know, there's a lot of walking. Even though they gave us like public transportation passes which was fabulous, you just could hop on any piece of public transportation and get where you needed to go there was still an awful lot of walking. And then, of course, the sightseeing. Budapest is an amazing city. There were so many things to see. We got to hop on, hop off and still have like 16,000 steps per day. It was crazy. Wow it's amazing.

Becky Cleavenger:

Yeah, it's it looked beautiful it was. The pools are amazing. It's a very much a swimming society, so they have pools everywhere, pools and baths, and it wasn't just the. I think it was Duna Arena. It's how you say it in English, I don't know how you say it in Hungarian, but that was amazing, absolutely amazing. That was brand new for the elite swimmers worlds. And then just there's this place called Margaret Island, which is just a hop skip and a jump from there, and they had two 50 meter pools there and an indoor 25 meter pool, and then there were some outdoor pools that I didn't even see. I mean, it was incredible. Pools everywhere. They love swimming and water pool over there. It's amazing, isn't it? Yeah.

Danielle Spurling:

Yeah, I've seen pictures of that beautiful outdoor sort of baths and it's surrounded by beautiful ancient buildings. It looked stunning. Yeah, it's an incredible city, yeah, certainly one that I would have loved to go to, but I think it's coming up again in another few years, having it in Budapest again. I think it is, yeah, I think it is, yeah, yeah, will you head to any other world championships?

Becky Cleavenger:

I think Doha's on the horizon, which sounds intriguing. I've never been to that part of the world. Yeah, oh, me too That'd be another. Yeah, that'd be a really tough trip.

Danielle Spurling:

No-transcript probably well worth it. Yes, yes, I was planning on going to Japan, but then obviously I had my little injury and I didn't get to go. But Doha is really good timing for us. Being in February, it comes out of our summer, it's really good. How long does it take you to fly there?

Becky Cleavenger:

Oh, I don't even know, but a long time, a long time, yeah, really long time. Yeah, it's like what is it? Let's see five to New York, 10 to London and then whatever it takes to get from London to Doha. It's a long way.

Danielle Spurling:

Yes, yeah, look, that was a mistake I made. I've only ever been to one. I went to Montreal in 2014, and I just did not give myself enough time to get over the jet lag and I just suffered the whole week. I was just exhausted, I couldn't get to sleep, and then I was so tired during the day.

Becky Cleavenger:

Yeah, it's rough. I don't think going to worlds for me. If I go to worlds it's because I want to see that part of the world, not because I want to swim fast, because I just don't see how it's possible. Honestly.

Danielle Spurling:

Well, I think if I'm going to Doha, I'm going to make sure I get there a few extra days ahead, rather than so close to racing.

Becky Cleavenger:

And then maybe do the sightseeing afterwards, after the but the meet. The event is so long. What is it like 10 days?

Danielle Spurling:

I think the swimming's over six days Somehow.

Becky Cleavenger:

I felt like it was longer, like you had. Maybe it was seven or eight days in Budapest. Anyway, it was long. And then relays were in the middle and a lot of people would do the days leading up to the relay day or relay day and then the days after, but like the whole duration would have been really long.

Danielle Spurling:

Yes, Well, it depends on your split of events, because you can only do five. So if they're not in those minor sort of spread over the whole time. So I think if I looked at it on this year's schedule, it would be one on the first day and one on the last.

Becky Cleavenger:

Yeah, that's tough. That makes for a long meet, that's right.

Danielle Spurling:

Yes, and how long have you been tapering?

Becky Cleavenger:

I would say we started last Thursday, so today is day eight, which is good. I don't like a two week taper because I don't think I swim enough to get a two week taper and I really worry about like losing fitness and strength throughout the duration of the meet.

Danielle Spurling:

Yes, yes, I agree. I don't feel like I do enough for a taper either. Do you pull back on the strength work that you do during that time as well? I took this week off.

Becky Cleavenger:

I probably would have gone Tuesday and just said let's do functional stuff Instead of like really hard. It's pretty hard and I love it for being that way. But yeah, I think you know kind of I feel like it energizes me. I don't feel like I feel poorly after a strength training session. I think I swim just fine the next morning. I go in the afternoons.

Becky Cleavenger:

One thing I've dropped is pull-ups. I have a pull-up challenge for myself On my 60th birthday. I want to be able to do 10. So I've been doing a lot of pull-ups at home and those I feel I very much feel those the next day. How many can you do now I can do? One time I did eight, so I'll do like I'm kind of right now probably can't do eight because I haven't done. I think I did six or seven, maybe Monday night or Tuesday night, but yeah, I was doing like 777 or 766,. Whatever I can do, take a little break, come back five minutes later and do more. And I started out I think I could only do like five, so I've gotten three more at the one time. It's really hard to add one. You know, the first few are like super easy and then all of a sudden they're not and you're just, like you know, willing yourself up to the bar. Very impressive, we'll see. I have a goal. I'm saying it publicly, so I have to do it, yeah.

Danielle Spurling:

Well, I bet the hanging is really helping with that as well, because it primes the shoulders.

Becky Cleavenger:

Yeah, I think it's all. And you know, pull-ups are very much like pulling and swimming, right, it's the same kind of motion. So I figure it can only help the swimming but, like I said, I really feel it the next day in practice.

Danielle Spurling:

And if you look at your whole the time you've been swimming masters, well, what's the sort of a thing that you like most about it? What do you enjoy?

Becky Cleavenger:

I would say kind of just the swimming community and the social aspect probably yeah.

Danielle Spurling:

Yeah, absolutely. And when you go to a meet, like you're going to this weekend, catching up with people from other clubs, friends is lovely, isn't it? And being able to spend that time with them.

Becky Cleavenger:

It really is. Yeah, it really is. That's, I think, the thing I like the absolute most about. It is and I didn't even know that like coming into master swimming, I was there to like do this triathlon and obviously I had fun because I kept going long after the triathlon.

Danielle Spurling:

So no more triathlons, just the swimming side of things.

Becky Cleavenger:

It was yeah, and well, yeah, I think I've done a couple of triathlon relays since then and I did an aqua-flot when I used to ride bikes, did a swim bike race. But no, I'm a swimmer. I did a surf lifesaving one last summer. Actually. That was actually really refreshing. I honest to God, it had been 30 years since I'd been on a surf ski Absolute not once for 30 years. Because my son is 30, my oldest child and I said, oh, I'll come out and swim. And they're like, oh, come on, you got to do more than swim. They let alumni come.

Becky Cleavenger:

It was USLA United States Life Saving Association Nationals and alumni can participate. So they were trying to rally the troops. Because it was in California, I'm like, sure, I'll come swim, I can swim. And I got roped into doing run, swim, run board paddle and the surf ski. And so I borrowed a surf ski about an hour before the race and I just paddled out around the course and I was like with the paddle it was very tippy and scary, but yeah, it was fun, it was super fun and it was kind of nice to know that you can challenge yourself, or to be reminded that you can challenge yourself and it doesn't have to be swimming, or swim meets or practice or whatever. It could be something entirely different. So that was fun, really fun yeah.

Danielle Spurling:

I bet, do you do any open water swimming races?

Becky Cleavenger:

I want to. Actually, we have USMS Nationals Open Water in Lake Mission, va Ho, which is it's a lake. It's a manmade lake. It's kind of like there's a community around it and it was like somebody dug a hole and put water in it, I think.

Danielle Spurling:

Really.

Becky Cleavenger:

Yeah, it's pretty, it's very pretty. Lakes aren't my thing. I much prefer the ocean. But I will do that. They have the one mile and the two mile and I think I'll stick with the one mile. Yeah, okay, that's coming up. That's in September or October. I'll have to look. I haven't had to sign up yet, but it's coming.

Danielle Spurling:

Yeah, lakes are always a little bit colder than the ocean, I find.

Becky Cleavenger:

Our ocean is quite cold, so this lake will be far warmer than the ocean. Really, what's the temperature when I live, I would say I haven't been in this year so not quite sure but last year it was anywhere between and I'm talking in the summertime 57 degrees. I don't know what that translates to in Celsius, but cold to maybe 65, pretty chilly. The pool is 81, typically, so a lot colder than the pool, and the lake is probably somewhere around 75.

Danielle Spurling:

Oh, okay, so it's quite warm. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Nice, yeah, well, you can stick to the lake, yeah.

Becky Cleavenger:

I love the ocean, though. I absolutely love, especially with the lifeguarding experience. Yeah, for sure, the surf and yeah.

Danielle Spurling:

Yeah, surf lifesaving I'm sure in California is huge. It is in Australia. Surf lifesaving is really really big here.

Becky Cleavenger:

Yeah, it's not really really big, but the lifeguards do it, unfortunately. I wish it was. It's so much fun.

Danielle Spurling:

It is so much fun. It's a big part of our summer culture here and, like my kids did what we call nippers, which is like when they're really little and they go and join up over sort of the holiday time and they learn all the surf skills and even if they're not going to compete, it's vital that they learn you know how to swim out of a rip and all those kind of things, and it's so much fun for them.

Becky Cleavenger:

Yeah, here they have junior lifeguard programs. So, like each not each, but most of the lifeguard agencies have a program called junior guards and kids sign up for, you know it could be a six week session, a two week session, even a one week session and they come out and they learn water safety. So they learn about rip currents and they learn about, you know, inshore holes, lateral currents, you know sneaker waves, all that stuff. My son actually has a program up in really far Northern California in Humboldt County, and the kids love it, they absolutely love it, and they kind of grew that program by doing outreach at schools and talking about water safety and collaboration with the Coast Guard. So it's a really cool thing. And there they have very treacherous beaches. They have like the big rocks, and the waters never over 50, something like low fifties, it's very cold and they have a lot of drownings, unfortunately. So this program is really important up there.

Danielle Spurling:

Everyone that comes in the podcast. I love to ask them the deep dive five questions, which is a bit of a snapshot about your swimming. Tell us your favorite pool that you've ever swum in.

Becky Cleavenger:

Avery Aquatic Center at Stanford University in Palo Alto. Yeah, it's incredible. It's got two 50-meter pools end-to-end and then they have a 25-yard pool, which is also the water polo tank, and then they have the dive towers. It's incredible.

Danielle Spurling:

Sounds beautiful. How about your favorite open water swim destination?

Becky Cleavenger:

For me. I used to lifeguard in Ventura, which is a little bit north of here, and there is a swim I like to do which is from the south end of San Buena Ventura State Beach to the Pier and Back. It's about two miles round trip.

Danielle Spurling:

Yeah, so that'd have to be mine. Sounds very nice. Would you do that swim?

Becky Cleavenger:

by yourself. I did that swim by myself a lot when the pandemic first started and all the pools shut down. I would go out there it was March, it was cold, really cold, so I would wear a wetsuit and I bought myself one of those safety buoys brightest one I could find and would put on two caps and just go do it Once in a while. One of my kids my daughter was. My daughter lives in Germany and she was home and a lot of people kind of worried about me going and doing this alone. But I do it in front of lifeguard headquarters and if I saw the lifeguard I would tell them they'd come around in a vehicle during the winter so I would tell them what I was doing so that they could keep an eye on me. But having worked at that beach, I know what they're doing up there at the top of lifeguard headquarters and they're watching the water. So I felt pretty good about it and but yeah, when my daughter was home from Germany, she would walk the beach while I would swim it.

Danielle Spurling:

That's good, that's nice. Yeah, and how about your favorite freestyle training drill?

Becky Cleavenger:

I do a lot of like. I'll do 15 yards or meters of schooling and then 10 yards or meters, depending on which pool we're in, of fingertip catch-up drill and it's all about feel for the water. So a lot of schooling out front and then just take that feel and that like hold on the water and turn it into fingertip drag catch-up drill.

Danielle Spurling:

Nice, I like those, I like all those drills.

Becky Cleavenger:

Yeah, yeah, it's really good for a rotation catch. Feel for the water, yeah.

Danielle Spurling:

Yeah, nice. And how about your favorite main training set?

Becky Cleavenger:

You know we have so much variety it's not like we repeat, except for that 1650 set I mentioned. We do repeat that. But I like things. I don't like things like 10 100s. I just really find that mind-numbing. So I like things that are a little bit more mixed up, so like maybe four 25s drilling 1550s, fly back back breast, breast free, and then two 100m fast and then repeat however many times, yeah. So like things that might not make you think and they also like you have something to look forward to and something not to look forward to. Like those two 100m faster, like okay, but after that you get the four 25s drilling so you can kind of recover a little bit, yeah, and here's one out of the box.

Danielle Spurling:

If you were going to create a favorite fantasy freestyle mixed relay of any swimmer, past or present, who would you put on the team?

Becky Cleavenger:

Doesn't have to be Kyle Charlmer's Michael Phelps, we got to put Matt on it. And Jason Lizzak, did you say it mixed? Do I have to have mixed?

Danielle Spurling:

Well, I'll take the men's one, and now you can do a mixed one, okay.

Becky Cleavenger:

So then we got to throw in let's see Matt and Michael Phelps, so we'll go with those two. And then women Sarah Scheuestrum, and I'm kind of liking what I saw from Shayna Jack a few weeks ago. She looked really good. She did look good, didn't she? Yeah, but you know what? I'm going to take that back and I'm going to put on Renoma Chromo Jojo.

Danielle Spurling:

Okay, she's also an excellent swimmer.

Becky Cleavenger:

Yes, yes, but yeah, shayna Jack's looking really good, very impressive, she is looking very good. She's very good given her time off.

Danielle Spurling:

I know, I know, I'm glad that she's back and it's great to see her. Yeah, that was a great 53, wasn't it?

Becky Cleavenger:

Back and better than ever. Yeah, but Sarah Scheuestrum, you can't go wrong with her.

Danielle Spurling:

How good is she? I mean, she did that well, Incredible. After she'd done her semifinals she had about 30 minutes rest.

Becky Cleavenger:

Incredible After breaking an elbow. And she's not getting any younger and she's still yeah, incredible.

Danielle Spurling:

Yes, it's just so joyful to watch it all. I just love it. Well, thank you so much for joining us today, becky. It's been lovely connecting with you and hearing about master swimming in the US, in Southern California, and wishing you every success for this weekend's competition.

Becky Cleavenger:

Thank you so much and thanks for having me. Danielle: It's been my pleasure. You're very welcome, okay.

Becky Cleavenger:

Thank you.

Danielle Spurling:

Oh no, that's okay, and maybe we'll see each other in Doha next year. That'd be amazing, yeah, that'd be great. Okay, take care.

Becky Cleavenger:

Thank you.

Danielle Spurling:

Thanks for listening to the podcast today. It was great to get Becky's insight into master swimming in Southern California and hear all about her swimming journey. Don't forget to check out our website at www. torpedoswimtalkcom. We've got lots of news and info about master swimming from around the world, and you'll even find training sessions and sets from some of our guests. Today's episode was brought to you by Amanzi Swim and the Magic Five. I would like to thank them both for supporting the podcast. I use both of their products. A lot of bathers from Amanzi and I use them all the time. They're colourful, they're long lasting. I love them. That's why I recommend them to people if they ever ask what bathers I use. And the Magic Five goggles are fantastic because they're really designed to fit my face. Check them both out with their links in the show notes. Until next time, happy swimming and bye for now.