Making Waves: The Intersection of Strength Training and Swimming with Dan Daly

Dive into the fusion of brawn and buoyancy as we chat with Dan Daly, an accomplished Masters open water swimmer and a connoisseur of strength and swim technique. Together, we navigate the urban challenge of securing pool space amidst New York's concrete jungle and contrast it with the swimming haven of Budapest. The conversation takes a personal dip into Dan's recent aquatic achievements, including a 4,000-meter swim and the creation of a Masters team during these unprecedented times. We even take a light-hearted lap around his Movember mustache escapades and the hopeful currents regarding NYC's COVID-19 situation and our cleaner urban waters.

Ever wondered how the finesse of your freestyle could make waves in your swim times? We submerge ourselves into the science behind hand positioning in swimming, where even a slightly open finger could set the stage for a smoother glide through the water. I share my passion for kettlebell training and its symbiotic relationship with swim strokes, while Dan provides pro-tips on technique adjustments for master swimmers. Our expedition continues as we examine the progression from thumb positions to personal stroke adaptations, all amidst my own aspirations to circumnavigate Manhattan Island and the environmental silver linings of the pandemic.

The pool's edge is just the starting block; we also plunge into the competitive swim circuit from high school to college in the U.S., shedding light on the dynamic between these foundational institutions. Our strokes of conversation then lead us to dissect the technological tide turning in breaststroke techniques and the pivotal power of pull-ups in a swimmer's arsenal. To cap it off, we share coaching strategies and extend a buoyant hand to our listeners, offering deeper dives into our insights with a hint to my Instagram treasure trove. Whether you're a swim enthusiast or a curious bystander, this episode is sure to ripple through your notions of swimming and strength training.

Transcript

Swim Coach & Strength Trainer Interview

Danielle Spurling 0:00

Music, music. Hello swim talkers and welcome to this week's episode of Torpedo Swim Talk. I'm your host, danielle Sperling, and each week I chat to master swimmers from around the world about their pool or open water swimming journey. Today we're joined by Masters, open Water Swimmer and Strength and Swim Technique Coach, dan Daly. Take care, bob. Hi Dan, thanks for coming on the podcast today.

Dan Daly 0:55

Thanks for having me, Danielle.

Danielle Spurling 0:57

Yeah, you're welcome. I can see you're supporting Movember. Are you going to keep that moustache after you finish November?

Dan Daly 1:05

We'll see how popular it is. My wife wanted me to shave it immediately, but it's been fun so far. I'm looking forward to irritating my friends and family over the Thanksgiving holiday here in the States.

Danielle Spurling 1:16

Yeah, I know my husband did it many years ago and he, yeah, I think people walked away from him on public transport because it was so scary. He's got very dark hair. It came right down his face so he looked like a gangland member or something. But yours was very expressive, so well done.

Dan Daly 1:32

Thank you.

Danielle Spurling 1:34

Where are you based in the US?

Dan Daly 1:38

Mostly New York City. I've lived here the last 12 years or so. I'm from the Philadelphia area, a couple of hours south.

Danielle Spurling 1:46

Right, and did you manage to get a swim in this week yourself? I know you're busy with coaching.

Dan Daly 1:53

Yeah, pools have been difficult in New York City the last 18 months, but it's opening up a little more and everyone's finding a new routine. So I'm swimming a lot in the city for the first time in a while and I'm really happy about that. So I got a good swim in today about 4,000 meters and I feel like I can swim as much as I want, so things are good.

Danielle Spurling 2:14

Awesome. Are there mainly indoor pools in New York?

Dan Daly 2:20

Mainly there's some outdoor pools in the summertime through the New York Parks and Rec team. Other outdoor pools in the city are mostly like rooftop lounges that are kind of a. Cnbc type of thing, Right, Um, but I in my opinion, pools in New York city are harder to come by and um, it's not the most accessible swimming city in the world.

Danielle Spurling 2:37

Yeah, yeah, I know, when I visited there before I went and did a session um 25 meter and you had to sort of go down into the basement to find the swimming pool. So all quite enclosed.

Dan Daly 2:51

Yeah, you know, in the suburbs where I grew up, pools are a lot more common and I was in the suburbs a little bit early on in the pandemic and there's pools everywhere, just kind of deciding where you wanted to go swim, and it was in the summertime. So outdoor is really nice and I spent a lot of time in Budapest in Hungary, with my wife and her family and I feel like it's the pool capital of the world. There's just so many amazing pools in Hungary and swim culture is super, like just great and same thing. It's where do we want to swim today? And a lot of beautiful locations.

Danielle Spurling 3:21

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've heard that about budapest. It, uh, it looks beautiful. There's so many gorgeous pools there.

Dan Daly 3:27

Absolutely yeah it's really nice. They, um, they invest well in that, uh, in those facilities yeah, absolutely.

Danielle Spurling 3:34

And what pool do you base yourself out of at the moment where you did your 4k?

Dan Daly 3:40

uh, I'm swimming at riverbank state Park, which is a city operated facility. It's a 50 meter pool, eight lanes. It's a nice space. They do a great job of taking care of it. They've been really awesome during this time and it's about two miles from my apartment. I ride city bike to get down there, so I get a nice bike ride in along the Hudson River and able to get a decent swim in and then ride back.

Danielle Spurling 4:04

Oh, awesome. And do you swim with the squad at the moment or you just swing by yourself?

Dan Daly 4:10

I don't, I'm just swimming by myself. Um, you know, there's some camaraderie with some of the groups that meet there. Um, so every now and then I might join someone for a set, but there's no formal team and um, pool time for master's teams have been difficult too. I see some of them picking it back up, but their hours have been significantly reduced. I'm actually working on starting my own master's team, but it's been difficult to find pool time to rent. The facilities that are open are still kind of. They're still kind of shy about opening it up to additional teams and groups and coaches.

Danielle Spurling 4:43

Yes, yeah. What's happening with COVID in New York at the moment? Is it sort of subsiding, or what's your vaccination rate like there?

Dan Daly 4:52

I should know the numbers. It's higher in New York than in other parts of the country I don't want to misquote a number but it's higher than the rest of the country. For sure it seems to be stable, at least you know, definitely reducing like deaths and hospitalizations. But I can't say for sure what it is. You know they just opened up to youth, so kids age five to 12, booster shots are open to anyone interested in that. Now it's very accessible, it's free of cost in New York.

Danielle Spurling 5:26

So Yep, yeah, let's hope it's all behind us, because it's been a rough two years for the whole world, really, hasn't it?

Dan Daly 5:34

Yeah, I mean I'm optimistic and I think we're finding a new way to navigate it. So we're either going to live with it or put it behind us, one or the other.

Danielle Spurling 5:45

Yeah, I agree. Um, we're either going to live with it or put it behind us, one or the other. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, so, getting off a bit of a morbid topic there with um for all our listeners, I wanted to start chatting, um, about your work as a swim coach and a strength coach. Um, I love that you combine both, and we'll talk about your instagram in a minute as well, but tell us what led you to coaching.

Dan Daly 6:02

What led me to coaching. Um, what led me to coaching? I was a multi-sport athlete growing up and had just a really terrific experience and I was always very passionate about strength training and nutrition and I slowly just realized that I had become a resource for my friends, my family, my teammates and kind of the go-to person who was really investing time and energy into being smart about strength and nutrition piece and combining that to be better at my sport and ultimately really just focusing on swimming. And so, I don't know, maybe halfway through college I decided that I wanted to get into coaching, but I wasn't sure what. I didn't know if I wanted to be a collegiate swim coach. I didn't know if I wanted to be a strength and conditioning coach at a university or professional level. And then ultimately, what I ended up getting into was the personal training world.

Dan Daly 6:48

So for the last I don't know, almost 15 years I've been in the personal training industry, working with people one-on-one, and for a while it was just average Joes, it was everybody. I took a little bit of a break from swimming. I dabbled in it but just needed a break after college, but then slowly realized I had a niche and a passion for coaching endurance athletes. So at first it was a lot of marathoners, and then it was triathletes and then I realized I could really help swimmers be more efficient with strength and conditioning and just smarter in general with programming. And there was a really awesome piece from coaching and the science of programming and the exercise science of it that I had some of growing up but, um, I own more now as a coach and I want to share that with athletes. Um, you know, mostly adult, adult amateurs participating in iron man marathon, open water channel swimming, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Danielle Spurling 7:41

I mean, I'm not sure whether everyone listening has seen your Instagram, which is Dan Daly, but I love the post that you put up with the movement, with the picture of the stroke, for instance, and then mirrored with an exercise. I think a lot of Masters athletes have trouble sort of visualising what kind of dry land things they'll do. Is that the kind of things that you recommend for swimmers, that you work with one-on-one as well?

Dan Daly 8:08

I do. Yeah, I mean, I'm I. They should definitely be taking advantage of strength training. I think it's so important and I just I sense that so many of them don't do it.

Dan Daly 8:15

And even at the highest level, at the collegiate level, they have a dry land program, but maybe the strength. There's a strength coach, but he's more focused on some of the like the bigger money sports like football and basketball in the US, and then some of the swimmers. They'll show up but they don't put as much energy into it. I was grateful to have some decent strength coaches and we were really smart about our shoulder program and I just felt like particularly the sprinters were strong and they enjoyed it and we could see the translation of the water and then also doing some really fun things in the pool that were more resistance based and then just learning the whole realm of of coaching and and just really getting into the strength training piece and I'm just, I just really saw I was able to connect those dots and I want to be able to share that with other athletes. In some sense they're not doing it at all or it's not as structured and as programmed as it could be.

Danielle Spurling 9:08

Yeah, I think that's a real problem with a lot of masters athletes that they find that because they're working full-time and they're squeezing in their swimming sessions around their work, I think that the strength training drops off a little bit. Sort of in that sort of weekly sort of uh programming, how sort of how do you recommend that people get it in? Is it before they swim on a different day, sort of what do you recommend?

Dan Daly 9:33

I want to work with them, but I want to make it efficient and easy.

Dan Daly 9:35

In fact I had a call today with a marathon client who kind of let his strength training go to the wayside towards the end of the marathon program and I was like, listen, even if you did three sets of three repetitions of your deadlift and that's all you did, you would have felt better, you would have, uh, reduced some of the um, some of the aches and pains that popped up, you would have run faster.

Dan Daly 9:54

And it doesn't have to be a lot of time and particularly in this, this new world we're living in, you know, with the pandemic, you could be, you get a kettlebell at home and do something very simple, very short. You don't have to leave your house. It could be in between meetings, calls, whatever it may be. But I just want to make it easy and kind of shape the path for them. It doesn't have to be 90 minutes of strength training and you can still do a lot of what you want to be doing. But maybe you could be more efficient by strength training a little bit and cutting back on some of the volume of your swim or your endurance sport.

Danielle Spurling 10:23

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. What sort of are the sort of the most common strength exercise that you would recommend? I mean, I know you mentioned the kettlebell, everything with a kettlebell, or do you sort of use TRX straps? What kind of things do you recommend?

Strength Training and Swimming Techniques

Dan Daly 10:41

Well, I have experience using all those things and, again, I want to work with the individual and what they have experience with, what they're interested in. I'm a big fan of the kettlebell because it's so efficient and I just feel like it's the perfect blend of mobility, strength and power. And you know, two or four kettlebells in your home takes up such a small footprint and you know the kettlebell is referred to as the gym in your hand. It's just so versatile, even if you have one kettlebell. But they're also dynamic and can be intimidating. So the TRX straps can be interesting and you know, there's ways to kind of maximize their potential in terms of repetitions and leverage. And it's really nice because you can throw it in a bag and take it with you. It's something that I travel with wherever I go.

Dan Daly 11:20

Yeah, so it all depends. Some people are going to gyms, some people are working out at home. We could start with body weight. Um, ultimately, we need to be able to scale this. I'm a big fan of strength training, so there needs to be some external load at some point. Um, maybe that's body weight and we just trained power. It really all depends, but I guess, to sum up, the question is I'm a big fan of kettlebell training um and strength and power training, so whatever tools that we have to do that, yeah yeah, absolutely.

Danielle Spurling 11:47

I love some of the stuff you put up, um with cross body sort of body engagement, because I think that's really important with swimming and I think a lot of strength coaches don't realize that that is um, because we're not always working in the same plane. What kind of exercise do you think's the best for that crossbody engagement, for, like, freestyle backstroke?

Dan Daly 12:08

the best? Uh, oh, man, I don't know. But I do think you know when I was introduced to lifting weights it was all single joint, single muscle exercises, a lot of machines. It was a bodybuilding type of culture, influence and we've just learned how integrated the body is and how we can load some of those cross-body connections. And then you know swimming, running, throwing, kicking, it's all opposite, hip, opposite shoulder, through your core.

Dan Daly 12:33

I'm a big fan of the kettlebell arm bar, which is more of like a functional, like movement prep type exercise, but it involves rolling on the ground and and rotating through your, your upper spine and moving your shoulders and loading your glutes and your core. You're not going to get super strong doing that, but to me it's very functional. It could be a smart part of everybody's prep or recovery work. I don't know what the ultimate cross-body exercise is the kettlebell, the single kettlebell swing, single arm kettlebell swing or the kettlebell snatch. When it's appropriate for people, you're not truly going cross body, you're resisting that cross body. Um right, which can be a very athletic example of that yeah, yeah, that sounds good.

Dan Daly 13:14

Sorry to put you on the spot with that no, that's fine I hope I don't go up to too much of a tangent on any of these?

Danielle Spurling 13:20

oh no, not at all. I saw one of the hot topics last week on your feed was um, talking about um, the underwater pool and freestyle. Um, where the the sort of debate between whether the fingers are together or apart? Where did you sort of land on that? And what's your thought with the athletes you work with?

Dan Daly 13:39

I think, ultimately, your hand should be relaxed. So, um, whatever that means to you, but a common flaw is just really cup and be too tight and stiff and then we see that translate into like poor wrist position, elbow shoulder problems, elbow problems. But the science actually is very supportive of having a slightly open hand and the physics of it um, if that's, if that's the answer is, you know, you're grabbing more. You're actually creating more drag in the moment, which drag is typically a bad thing for swimmers, but you're creating more drag in a moment, which means you're catching and pushing more water. Yes, and the definitive answer?

Swimming Techniques and Training Tips

Danielle Spurling 14:14

well, at least one study was suggesting your hand should be more together on the entry because it's more streamlined, but when you go to pull, your finger should be slightly open and relaxed yeah, I think that's a really hard concept for a lot of master swimmers to sort of get their head around, because it it changes from the entry to the water to starting the pool. What about the thumb position? Are you um sort of do you uh advise that the thumb stays into the hand or out? Because I know that's always been a um a point of contention with people too you know, for the same reasons, I would stay slightly out.

Dan Daly 14:48

Um, I was actually swimming in budapest this summer and I I swam with my hand, my fingers slightly open, but my thumb is together and it's just my habit. My stroke's not perfect and everyone will see that. Actually I put it out there all the time. But, um, someone pointed out to me. It's like, hey, they saw me filming and they just gave me like unsolicited feedback, which is very helpful. It's like I should open my thumb. And he was, um, he was very descriptive about how it increased the surface area of my hand and would allow me to catch more water. And I'm like, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, and I coach that in other ways. But when I look at my stroke, my thumb is always kind of pinned to my palm yeah, yeah definitely just an old habit I think it's a, it's a bit of a habit.

Danielle Spurling 15:25

It's what you, what you pick up when you learn to swim. I mean, yeah, I, I'm very much a person who puts their, their thumb out, and if I, if I have it in, it feels like I'm unbalanced. But I think it's a personal sort of feel of the water. That's what I always sort of learned through my swimming years. Yeah, it's interesting though, isn't it?

Dan Daly 15:44

it is, and you know, I think there's so much of swimming, there's so much. So ultimately like, find what's going to give you the biggest return on improving, and there are different techniques for different people and how you move and what your limitations are, and some of the best athletes in the world, the fastest athletes, are doing unconventional things that are not textbook. Um, that might not necessarily be what everybody should be doing. We should still be learning the fundamentals and what the science supports, but also experience and then ultimately landing on what's best for you.

Danielle Spurling 16:13

Yeah, absolutely I know you were a high school swimmer and you swam in college. Was it Westchester University?

Dan Daly 16:22

Yeah, I started at Fordham University here in the Bronx in New York City. I swam there for two years and then I transferred to Westchester University in Pennsylvania and finished my career there for two Right wow, and how many years did you sort of have out of the water before you started in on your master's swimming journey?

Dan Daly 16:41

Oh man, I don't have to really think about that. I wasn't out of the water completely, but definitely took a break and just really went down the strength training rabbit hole and wanted to learn a lot about that and just wanted to lift weights more. And I did a triathlon, I think in 2012, which was my first, and I actually escaped from Alcatraz. I swam across the San Francisco Bay. I think that was two and a half miles or 1.5 miles, so unconventional life for triathlon, but that was interesting.

Dan Daly 17:13

And then my uncle, who's a triple crown open water swimmer, actually maybe in 2011 asked if I wanted to swim a relay across the English Channel and my first instinct was yes, um.

Dan Daly 17:25

And then, as I thought about it more and my interest in swimming, at the time I was like, oh man, I don't know if I want to train for this and also some of the elements, like I don't know if I really want to do this right now, but that kind of sparked, um, my interest in doing some 10ks and some longer distances. I was a sprinter but I kind of trained and supported him and participated in some of these longer events and then coached him for some of these events and started coaching more people and and now, like I'm really interested in in longer open water events and I've done several 10 Ks and various distances between and I'd like to pursue some of the channel swims. I might swim around Manhattan Island this summer I was deferred during 2020, um, but I'd like to revisit that and, and you know, start some of these, uh, these longer mental and physical challenges yeah, absolutely.

Danielle Spurling 18:12

You know, I've spoken to a few triple crown um people that have come on the podcast and um one of them, uh, one of my earlier guests, rob watkins. He loves that manhattan, all around manhattan, swim um, yeah, 20 bridges, isn't it?

Dan Daly 18:28

yep, 20 bridges, yeah, um. Yeah, I mean it's kind of my hometown. The water's comfortable, it's the fastest of the triple crown. Uh, it's tide assisted. It looks fun. I've done various distances all around the city and coached my uncle around Manhattan, so I feel like it's something I should check off.

Danielle Spurling 18:45

Yeah, definitely. What's the water quality like?

Dan Daly 18:49

Everyone asks. Every time I get in they say the water is the cleanest it's been in 100 years. There's a group, I think, called Riverkeeper that's they're advocates for water quality and increasingly a lot of animals are coming back to the water, like even whales and dolphins and seals that we hadn't seen, so that you know, allegedly the the water quality is better. They tend to um reschedule races after big storms, but I think that's true even of like some of our nicer, larger bodies, oceans and other areas. Um, but I think they're trying to improve it and there's signs that it is yeah, yeah, that's.

Danielle Spurling 19:26

That's really interesting. I think during covid, with a lot less sort of movement around the place, where I noticed here, um, in melbourne, we um swim down in port phillip bay and, without the boats and the jet skis and the things that usually are there, there was a lot more wildlife, a lot more. There was dolphins people were citing them all the boats and the jet skis and the things that usually are there. There was a lot more wildlife, a lot more. There was dolphins People were sighting them all the time and, unfortunately, jellyfish as well, but there was a lot more water life around, because they're not scared away by all the sounds, obviously, and the petrol fumes and everything else that goes with that.

Dan Daly 19:58

Yeah, I mean, I think the pollution in the city it's a busy shipping, busy shipping waterways and, um, just the sewage system and um, it gets treated and kind of flushed back into that, so, um, I don't know the extent of it. There's probably some websites you can refer to when you're, when you dare to get into those waters, but it's um, you're actually not allowed to swim the waters around here unless there's a sanctioned event, um, and they're often monitoring that as well yeah, and what um pool masters events have you been in in the last few years?

Danielle Spurling 20:32

none actually none, no pool events.

Dan Daly 20:35

I did the um, I did the uh masters world championships in 2017 in budapest and I I swam the 3k, which they ended up cutting to, I think, two and a half because of the weather, and that was really awesome. And I should have done the pool events because, ultimately, I went and watched all my friends participate and I was like I want to get it now. Um, but I'm kind of I haven't. I haven't been in the pool racing since college, just open water, but I want to get back to it. There's this growing passion for it and I'm coaching a lot of it, so I'd like to look into it.

Danielle Spurling 21:07

Yeah, absolutely. What I wanted to also cover with you is a bit about stretching Sort of with the people that you work with. Do you recommend that before or after training? Are there different types that you would recommend to someone before they're getting in swimming? What's your sort of thoughts on that?

Dan Daly 21:27

I'm a big believer in assessing mobility and range of motion and making a decision whether or not you need to stretch at all. So, first and foremost, from a functional standpoint, your body should do certain things, regardless of who you are. There's even a little difference to age and gender to some degree. I mean we want to take those into consideration. But, like you, should be able to lift your arms up overhead 180 degrees and get into a good streamline and get into a good overhead position. If you can't, there might be mobility strategies to get you there. Sometimes it's strength training strategy, sometimes it's a combination of both. So, first and foremost, let's see what you what, what ranges of motion you don't have, and let's restore those, maybe with mobility, and then, once you have that, you know training in the ranges of motion that you want is a great way to maintain those.

Dan Daly 22:11

If you look at athletes who can get into some interesting positions doing a sport that they've done their whole life but maybe can't do other things because they've never done those things A lot of it, we kind of own the ranges of motion that we use on a regular basis and then, outside of that, maybe for recovery, I'm a bigger fan of like body work and some other like manual modalities, maybe some dynamic movements like yoga, dynamic stretching for mobility. I'm not going to discourage it if people have time for it, but you know, when we're pressed for time we should spend a lot of time in the water swimming, sometimes strength training and then addressing some of the functional stuff in between. Those with soft tissue foam rolling massage. You know some of the dynamic movements that I talked about.

Danielle Spurling 22:55

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm a big fan of foam rolling and spiky ball. Yeah, nice, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm a big fan of um foam rolling and spiky ball. Yeah, nice, good to good to travel with too.

Dan Daly 23:05

if you're moving around, you can always take that spiky ball with you. Yeah, I keep a couple of trigger point balls in my travel bag too yeah, I think it's a great thing.

Danielle Spurling 23:13

I love the person who invented it. Nice, yeah. And what, if? What advice would you have for a master swimmer getting back in the water and starting a training program? So say, you've had a big sort of break after COVID. How often would you advise someone to be back in training each week, and what type of training would you be getting them to do?

Dan Daly 23:37

Depends on the goal and their training history and their background and how long they were out of it.

Dan Daly 23:42

Yeah, I don't think you could really get good at anything from learning a language to getting better at swimming if you're not doing it at least twice per week.

Dan Daly 23:49

And swimming is kind on the body in terms of being able to do it more frequently and being able to do more volume. I would also want that person's strength training there's even if on the best swimming program and at your best swim fitness there's some repetitive stresses and some imbalances that can happen with swimming. And if you're not, if you're not offsetting that and kind of complementing it with with complementary and reciprocal movements, um, there might be some imbalances that could, you know, lead to aggravation, potential injury. So I don't know, I'd want that person lifting at least twice and swimming at least twice in ideal world, three and three and if they have a very specific swim goal, we'd have to talk about, like, what volume they really need to build up. If you're going to swim around Manhattan, for example, you might have to work up to four to six hour swims and some 10,000 meter workouts and swimming. Well, ultimately it's how much time do you have you might be able to get away with less, but um, more sometimes is better in the swimming space yeah, absolutely, yeah, obviously.

Danielle Spurling 24:45

If you're training for around manhattan, as opposed to 100 meter butterfly or whatever it might be, it's going to be completely different training with those longer distance people you work with. Are they doing pool sessions as well as open water training, or is it one or the other?

Dan Daly 25:02

They are and it really depends on what they have access to. I have some clients who almost only have access to open water and they live in beautiful places with oceans or bodies of water. They can swim in all the time, whenever they want. It's safe and accessible. And you know, some people are really comfortable in the water and just kind of like pool pedigree and spend most of their time in the pool and then they just kind of translate that to some open water events, which to some degree was me for a while. But particularly over the last 18 months of the pandemic, I've been swimming a lot more outdoors and seeking it out and just really enjoying it. So it depends. Specificity is ultimately really important. So if you're going to do an open water event, you need to be in the conditions. You need to prepare for those conditions the temperature of the water, the conditions of the water, um, how you're feeding, your exposure to other weather, weather, wildlife, things like that yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Danielle Spurling 25:54

And when you yourself are training for a 10k, what's your favorite sort of set that you do that sets you up for that 10k?

Dan Daly 26:04

oh man, I don't know if I have a favorite set, um, there's definitely some infamous sets like hundred, hundreds, 10 by 1000, um, various breakdowns of that just to make it interesting and implementing in different types of equipment, yep uh I don't know if I have a particularly favorite set sorry for those hundred, hundreds.

Danielle Spurling 26:25

What, what time cycle would you um set those on?

Dan Daly 26:31

depends on the season and and where I'm at. I don't know. I might I don't know off the top of my head, maybe we do a hundred of those on like a minute 30 for yards and um, just try to, just try to make them all and keep going yeah, do you tend?

Danielle Spurling 26:48

would you tend to take a break every 20 or so, or do you just swim that straight through?

Dan Daly 26:53

I might get to a point where I could swim it straight through, yeah, but initially it could be some breaks. Um, there could be some various intervals working in different equipment. It wouldn't start with 100. It would build up in a smart way, kind of maybe in like an undulating, rolling way.

Danielle Spurling 27:06

Yeah, absolutely. And how did you get started in swimming as a youngster, like what led you to the water?

Swimming Training and Competitions

Dan Daly 27:15

I was a multi-sport athlete, just playing different sports every season, and I remember joining the summer swim team with a friend. We had a local awesome 50 meter pool in our neighborhood and maybe six or seven joined the age group summer swim team, which was very it's very casual in the United States and it was just fun. I actually didn't do that well in swimming lessons. I tell the story all the time I wasn't able to pass through some certain level of whatever the criteria was, and my parents and my friend's parents suggested we join the swim team and I just kind of took off, I took to it, I was fit and athletic and I I think I learned the skills as it came. Um, and then slowly got involved in winter swimming but it was often combining that with other sports like basketball during the winter as well and, um, I don't know, around high school I gave up all those other sports and just committed to swimming full-time so in the high school system in the US, how do the swimming competitions work?

Danielle Spurling 28:09

do you travel just within your sort of local area to other schools and do head-to-heads, or is it a carnival with lots of schools? How does that sort of work?

Dan Daly 28:20

it depends. Um, it's mostly head-to-head stuff and I actually went to school didn't have a swim team at all, so we also have a club system in the us. So maybe you swim for your school, maybe you also swim for a club or just for your club, right, I guess? Now that I think about it uh, it's been a little while there we do have invitationals and we would. I would travel to other states and compete with my club team, and that you know it was an invitational, with multiple squads or teams there at a time.

Danielle Spurling 28:46

Right, okay.

Dan Daly 28:47

And then, of course, bigger regional meets and championships. You have people from all over your I don't know the mid Atlantic area, like your tri-state area, something like that, yeah.

Danielle Spurling 28:58

Yeah, Because from the outside, looking in, it always seems like the US has got a really strong school high school system which feeds into the college swimming system, which we just don't have that in Australia system which we?

Dan Daly 29:14

we just don't have that in australia, um, we do. Yeah, it's very nice in fact. Um, a lot of my college teammates were international students who kind of had like a second career in swimming, um getting a scholarship from europe and other parts of the world to swim for a us college team yeah, and take advantage of our structure yeah, yeah for sure.

Danielle Spurling 29:30

And was Westchester a Div 1 NCAA or what was the situation there?

Dan Daly 29:38

Westchester's Division 2. Division 2, yep, yeah, and Fordham was Division 1.

Danielle Spurling 29:43

Right, okay. So were you competing at All-American meets there with that team?

Dan Daly 29:52

I was an All-American at West Chester University on one of our relay teams but we actually had a really great team there, arguably faster than the team at Fordham, and we would compete at nationals every year. So schools from all over the country and our guys' team at the time were often top six overall and we have a lot of national champions on our team and all Americans and some record holders, so it was a pretty awesome group. And, going back to the international thing, we had a strong international team, a lot of European swimmers and some world-class people.

Danielle Spurling 30:23

Wow, and who's the sort of the best coach you've ever worked with yourself?

Dan Daly 30:28

Oh, you're going to put me on the spot. A lot of great coaches, actually I probably say my high school coach. I got a lot of individual attention from my high school coach at my local club, um yeah, and big influence on my swimming and there were times where maybe I thought I wanted to give it up. It's not the most social sport or it's not the most interesting sport, so it really has to be for you. And I gave up a lot of fun ball sports that were very social and more glamorous, but I kind of saw it as a route to get a scholarship to college and he was very supportive of that and a former college swimmer as well, and it kind of helped me navigate that and just get through the angst of high school and use swimming as kind of an outlet for that. Yeah, absolutely know you, swimming is kind of an outlet for that.

Danielle Spurling 31:10

Yeah, absolutely. When you hit the water yourself, what sort of springs to mind first thing that goes through your mind when you hit the water and you go underneath? Because I know a lot of people have special relationships with that.

Dan Daly 31:26

Yeah, it's more of a love for it than ever before. I mean, there was a time, like you, I'm sure you've had mornings. It's it's 6 am, the water's cold, it's like, why am I doing this? And that's a large part of, like your age group swimming career. But today I was just thinking how lucky I was actually I swam midday that I can, I can break away from my job and go swimming and to some degree my career is kind of centered around maintaining this fitness and doing it and, um, I just get to be at a great facility that I can ride my bike to and go swimming almost as long as I want, and my part, my job, is staying fit and getting to swim yeah, yeah, I think it sounds like a pretty good job yeah and not in a labor's way.

Dan Daly 32:05

I don't feel a lot of pressure or to like compete or be successful at it. I just get to do it and there's always things that you can improve, like with yourself, and it's fun. I feel lucky that I can do it.

Danielle Spurling 32:17

And what's your mindset when you're swimming? Do you sort of clear your mind or do you think through your problems, like, what are you thinking when you're going down each lap?

Dan Daly 32:26

It varies. At times it can be a way to clear your head. I certainly have. It varies. At times it can be a way to clear your head. I certainly have. I think I did like four 1000s the day before and it just kind of a way to kind of zone out and get into a rhythm. But other times I'm very focused, I'm very competitive. So even if I'm I don't know, even if I'm not particularly fast at the moment or fit or being like really competitive, I'm just thinking of, like how I can prepare for that. I'm thinking about my technique a lot. I of like how I can prepare for that. Um, I'm thinking about my technique a lot. I try to have a focus for the set with whether it's equipment, a drill technique, um, and I'm thinking about events that could be interesting and motivating yeah, absolutely.

Danielle Spurling 33:01

Are you big on stroke counts? Do you count your strokes as you go?

Dan Daly 33:05

I do a lot of that. Yeah, I'm a big fan and, um, I am. I was gonna say that I I lean towards a lower stroke count, um, I don't swim at a particularly high tempo. Yeah, I guess I do when I sprint, but I can get away with a very low stroke rate, um. So I think in a way it's a strength, but maybe also a crutch at times. But yeah, I do a lot of like distance per stroke and counting strokes and I can get away with a low stroke count for a while yeah, and you someone, are you someone who enjoys kick or pull more, what's sort of in your, in your bag of tricks?

Dan Daly 33:37

I'm more of a puller, upper body dominant, which is interesting actually because I'm I'm pretty lower body strength athlete but I have I have a pretty decent two beat kick and get it can get away with the pulling.

Danielle Spurling 33:50

Yeah.

Dan Daly 33:51

I've been forcing myself a lot lately to do six-beat kick. That's been a big focus actually of my sets, of just doing the set with a six-beat kick, a constant kick.

Danielle Spurling 34:01

Yeah, and do you use sort of snorkel paddles parachute those kind of toys as well?

Dan Daly 34:08

I like all the toys. The staples are paddles, fins, buoy. I've been getting away from the kickboard. I'm not against it, but doing more streamlined kicking. I have a snorkel but I don't love it lately but I wanna use it more. A new toy that I've been using increasingly more in my professional career is a tempo trainer. So getting back to stroke rate and tempo and setting that to specific stroke rates. I love parachutes. I love the resistance band, whether you're swimming against it or you know swimming with a resistant or you know the bungee aid and all this new stuff coming out. I just I'm happy to play with any of the toys.

Danielle Spurling 34:47

Yeah, yeah, they're fun to play with. With the resistance band, do you um, when you put yourself on that um, do you then swim without it straight away and, sort of um, use the advantage that you get from that um, no resistance.

Dan Daly 35:04

if that makes sense, I do yeah yeah, you know, in the strength world we call that potentiation. But um, when you can kind of overload yourself and then take that away, that's actually a pretty amazing performance technique. And I'm a big fan of those hacks. Taking a lot of the hacks from the strength world and applying it to swim.

Danielle Spurling 35:20

So yeah, doing some really heavy resisted whatever it is big paddles, a band, and then taking that away and you kind of have this over speed, or at least you feel like you have that yeah, and I mean that's the whole principle behind fins as well getting that sort of speed in the water that you can't normally um sort of replicate, and taking them off and being able to swim with it or try and replicate it yeah yeah, I think it's really helpful I think it's a really good training tool.

Danielle Spurling 35:45

yeah, I wanted to um give you a quick. I call it the fast five. It's a new thing I'm doing. I'm going to fire five questions at you. Give me sort of one or two word answers they're not tricky or anything, just to get a bit of a snapshot about your training.

Dan Daly 36:03

I'm not that fast. I'm fast in the water. Let's see if I'm fast in the water.

Danielle Spurling 36:07

You've got time to think, don't worry, yeah, cool.

Dan Daly 36:12

F. I'll see if I'm fast enough. You've got time to think, don't worry. Yeah, cool Favorite pool Right now it's Duna Arena in Budapest.

Danielle Spurling 36:16

Ah, beautiful, favorite stroke.

Dan Daly 36:18

Ooh, probably breaststroke, breaststroke. I was a breaststroker.

Danielle Spurling 36:22

Okay, oh, that's interesting, because now you do.

Dan Daly 36:25

Yeah, we didn't talk about that at all.

Danielle Spurling 36:26

Long distance. We're going to talk about that in a minute favorite distance.

Dan Daly 36:43

Uh, I was 50 freestyle, but now I'm doing 10ks. Yeah, it's a bit of a change. Favorite pre-race meal, uh probably oatmeal.

Danielle Spurling 36:46

Ah good, any, any additions to the oatmeal, or do you just have it uh straight, ah good.

Dan Daly 36:52

Any additions to the oatmeal, or do you just have it?

Danielle Spurling 36:54

straight Cinnamon and either honey or peanut butter, oh yes. And morning or afternoon training.

Dan Daly 37:00

It varies, it really varies. I talk about this with clients all the time. Right now it's been midday. Yes, that's lucky. I don't want to get up in the dark anymore, actually, and swim in the cold, so midday midday for you, that's fine, let's talk about that breaststroke.

Danielle Spurling 37:18

So we got a 50, 100 or 200 breaststroke, or did you do all three?

Dan Daly 37:22

I did the 100 and 200 and ultimately the 200 was might have been my best event, uh, maybe not. I had some decent hundred meter on the relay, um, and it actually varied, cause I also swam a hundred meter butterfly and I felt like the breaststroke butterfly would go back and forth and then, out of nowhere, because we swim so much volume and freestyle, I had this 50 that you know, you just surprise yourself. And then I ultimately, collegiately my best event was the 50 freestyle, but I had a good a hundred.

Danielle Spurling 37:49

Ultimately, collegiately, my best event was the 50 freestyle but I had a good 100, 200 breast and 100 fly. All right, wow, that's great. And how did you put together a 200 breaststroke? I know you do yards over there for college. How did you swim your like? What was your race plan for a 200 breaststroke?

Dan Daly 38:06

It's been forever ago. Going back to stroke count, um, probably trying to really hold like six strokes per length for 25 yards. I have a really great pull out. I was, I was strong again, so I um, from what I've seen or read, it's breaststroke is often described as the most muscular stroke, so I had a really good like squat and lower body. So my kick um and good pull out, or you know, you know, pull up in the gym, um, so low stroke count, big glide. And I've actually been really interested in Adam PD probably the whole world is, but just this stroke rate and also his strength and um.

Dan Daly 38:46

You know, I had a lot of good coaching growing up to go off in a bit of a tangent, but we didn't have underwater cameras so much Like. At one point in college we had this like the submarine pipe with like a VHS cassette tape and then we would watch it. It's like I don't know what we're looking at right now. So we didn't have so much of the science of like of stroke and technique. We did some good training, but I just know a lot more now with stroke rate and time and trying to find the sweet spot for what's best for you and um. An analogy is used in swimming, as a lot of some people are gliders and some people are helicopters, and the gliders are going to be tend to be a lower stroke rate, um, glide more in between strokes. They can kind of take a pause in between that rate, and helicopters kind of need to be spinning the whole time so that they can propel themselves, and everyone's a little different and I think it's interesting to find what's best for you.

Danielle Spurling 39:31

Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I agree. I mean, you watch Adam Petey's kick and it's completely different. It's almost like a butterfly kick, isn't it the way he whips his feet back and it's really going to bring breaststroke to a whole new level, or it has brought breaststroke to a whole new level. But I think those underwater cameras, like you mentioned, are just a wonderful step forward for the sport of swimming.

Dan Daly 39:55

We're just learning so much. So much has changed since I was in the pool and I just want to bring that to coaching and I still feel like there's a lot of fitness and youth in what I'm doing, so I'm able to bring that to some of what I'm doing, to the extent that I have time and passion for it, that I have time and passion for it. We're just learning. So much is changing and people are bucking those trends or the tradition of what we used to do.

Danielle Spurling 40:16

Yeah, absolutely. I just want to go back to something you mentioned before, which was that you were very strong at pull-ups. A lot of master swimmers can't do one pull-up. I can't myself. How can you help someone progression to get to that point?

Dan Daly 40:33

this actually might be a post next week. Um, it's just so. It's probably the ultimate strength exercise, at least for um, at least for freestyle and backstroke, which are arguably more upper body dominant. Your pull and swimming is the most, is the most propulsive in freestyle and backstroke. First, when people tell me that I ask them to tell me about their pull-up program and chances are they're not on one or they haven't been on one at least in a while. And the easy way to do that is to work the negative portion or the eccentric portion of the pull-up, where you kind of get to the top, however you can, whether you jump or you step up and then lower yourself nice and slow.

Dan Daly 41:13

Um, that's a really terrific way to get better at pull-ups or push-ups, uh, band assisted is another way, machine assisted, uh, but you know you need to get on a program and then ultimately that needs to steer towards strength. So, waiting those pull-ups or whatever that strength is for you, and keeping the reps lower which, by the way, um, you know lower volume is really complimentary to swimming and how high volume it is, and it's just a great way to get strong. You don't have to do a lot of reps, a lot of time in the gym but neurally, um, just teaching your fast twitch fibers to be strong and fast and quick, um, you know, really translates to the water.

Danielle Spurling 41:48

Yeah, yeah, you know, really translates to the water. Yeah, yeah, that's really interesting. I think a lot of um, a lot of master swimmers need to put that in their program the um, the pull-up yeah, um, maybe that's number one people and you know, or you could start with a cable pull down.

Dan Daly 42:03

You know you work with what your strength is, but, um, a lot of people, they they'd surprise themselves if you just work on it a little bit, I think. I think it's in everybody.

Danielle Spurling 42:11

Yeah, yeah, absolutely Food for thought. Yeah, dan, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today and sharing your insight into coaching and strength training and your swimming journey. It's been lovely connecting with you, and I encourage everyone to have a look at your wonderful Instagram page, because I pick up a lot of tips from there as well. It's terrific.

Dan Daly 42:34

Thanks, danielle. Yeah, it was fun chatting. I'm happy to do it. Great questions, appreciate it. Thanks for having me.

Danielle Spurling 42:40

Thanks Dan, Okay, take care.

Dan Daly 42:42

You too.

Danielle Spurling 42:44

Take care bye. Thanks for listening in to the podcast today. I hope you enjoyed it. I'm really looking forward to bringing you some great guests over this season. We love hearing from you, so please drop us a review on Apple Podcasts or directly onto our Facebook page at Torpedo Swim Talk Podcast. Tell us what you like, tell us who you would like to hear. We love hearing all your feedback. Don't forget to follow and subscribe so you don't miss any episodes. Till next week, happy swimming and bye for now.