Torpedo Swimtalk Podcast with Lisandra de Carvalho - Conquering the 200 Butterfly, Open Water tactics and Other Swim Tales

Today's guest on Torpedo Swimtalk Podcast is Lisandra de Carvalho, a Brazilian-born swimmer now making waves in Melbourne, Australia. As we navigate through her impressive swimming journey, you'll hear how she transitioned from a top National Age Group swimmer in Brazil to training with elite coaches in the US, ultimately earning an athletic scholarship to swim at UMBC and now conquering masters swimming as a number one world ranked butterflier.

Lisandra shares her thoughts on training as a masters swimmer, and what works for her. She is a big believer in recovery technique, with massage, ice baths and accupuncture being cornerstones of her weekly schedule.  We dissect her strategies for conquering the 200 butterfly event and discuss pacing, the importance of rhythm and her tips to manage both physical and mental hurdles during the race. We also delve into the emotional aspects of competing, touching on the unique pressures and satisfactions that come with high-level performance.

Lisandra lends her insights on pool swimming versus ocean swimming, favourite training routines and mindfulness techniques that enhance both physical and mental health.

This episode of Torpedo Swimtalk Podcast offers a rich blend of inspiration, practical advice, and heartfelt stories from the world of competitive swimming. Tune in for a refreshing dive into the life and experiences of Lisandra de Carvalho

Connect with Lisandra
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Chapters

• 0:09 Swimmer's Journey
• 16:30 Ice Baths and Race Strategies
• 21:46 Gender Divide in Open Water Swimming
• 31:57 Master Swimmer Discusses Pool Swimming
• 37:18 Swimmer's Training and Mindfulness Techniques

Transcript

Danielle Spurling: 0:09

Hello swimmers, and welcome to another episode of Torpedo Swim Talk podcast. I'm your host, Danielle Spurling, and each week we chat to a wonderful swimmer from around the world about their swimming journey. I'm joined today by the vibrant and effervescent Lisandra de Carvalho. Lisandra hails from Brazil and was a top National Age Group swimmer there before heading to college in the US and now living in Australia. She works as a translator and knocks every Masters swimming goal out of the pool. Excuse the pun. She owns many national masters age group records in Australia and is ranked number one in the world for the 200 fly in her age group. They're just some of the many achievements she's accumulated under her belt, and there's plenty more to come. Let's hear from Lisandra now. Let's hear from Lisandra now. Hi, Lisandra, welcome to the podcast.

Danielle Spurling: 1:07

Hi Danielle, thank you. Thanks for having me here. You're so welcome. I've been wanting to get you on for a while. I'm glad you're back from holidays. You look like you had a terrific time. Where did you go, oh?

Lisandra de Carvalho: 1:18

thank you. Thank you, very happy to be here. I went to Tonga and fiji for two different reasons to tonga to to swim with the humpback whales, and to fiji to to dive with bull sharks and other sharks. So it was amazing. It was amazing, amazing were you?

Danielle Spurling: 1:40

were you at all apprehensive, swimming with the humpbacks and the bull sharks?

Lisandra de Carvalho: 1:45

Yeah, both, both. You know they're wild animals and you know we are in their environment. But the humpbacks very gentle giants and it was mostly the mums and the calves, so they're very calm. Some of them are a bit protective, but yeah, it was a bit apprehensive. And with the sharks I was very scared. I won't lie, you know. But I think I read all the 700 five-star reviews from TripAdvisor to give me a bit more peace of mind and it was all very, very professional and one of my diving instructors was this Canadian woman and she was amazing and I just, oh, I just admired her so much but yeah, it was scary. There were 50, 60 sharks swimming around you and it was very exhilarating. It was amazing. I recommend, I recommend yeah.

Danielle Spurling: 2:54

I mean, I don't know whether I'd have the confidence to do that.

Lisandra de Carvalho: 2:58

Yeah, with the dive we were 30 metres deep. That's you know how deep the the dive, how deep we have to go. Um, but it was amazing how safe I felt once I was down there with the guides. They only have a stick and they pop the sharks in the nose. It was amazing. But they just swim away. Um, it was a beta dive, so they feed them just very small amounts of heads of tuna, so for the sharks the tuna is like a delicious lasagna fresh off the oven. Us humans there, we're just lettuce with not even olive oil, so they don't pay attention to us. Well, that's good.

Danielle Spurling: 3:47

I'm glad they did it, thank you. So you're based in Melbourne, australia, but originally from Brazil. What? What brought you here initially and how long have you lived here?

Lisandra de Carvalho: 3:57

so yeah, originally from Brazil, I've been in Melbourne for nearly 17 years now and I was actually living in London and I just finished my master's degree there and I just needed a change. I had some Aussie friends and moved to Australia and I fell in love with the place, fell in love with Melbourne. I moved to Melbourne and I've always lived in Melbourne and I absolutely love Melbourne too.

Danielle Spurling: 4:30

Yeah, that's fantastic. Well, we're happy to have you here.

Lisandra de Carvalho: 4:32

Very happy to have you here.

Danielle Spurling: 4:34

Thank you, did you swim when you were in.

Lisandra de Carvalho: 4:35

Brazil. So I swam, I swam when I was in Brazil, I swam. My coach was Albertino Albertino Silva and he coached Cesar Cielo and other he's. He's coaching the Portuguese national team now. So that was. That was my coach. He's the one who showed me that I could swim 200 butterfly. And when I was a Brazilian age group champion in the 200 butterfly and when I was a brazilian age group champion in the 200 butterfly, and when I turned 18, I moved to jacksonville, florida, and I swam at bowls with greg troy for a short period of time with Greg Troy for a short period of time, about six months. And then I applied for a few American universities and I was accepted at one of them, UMBC, and I had an athletic scholarship and then I swam four years in the United States.

Danielle Spurling: 5:40

Wow, what was that?

Lisandra de Carvalho: 5:41

experience like it was amazing. It was really good for years of my life where I could focus on the swimming. We still had to get good grades. We had to get the grade point average, have a good GPA, but I was very studious too, so it was amazing at the team spirit and the friends that I made there. I'm still in touch with a lot of them. We don't see each other, but we celebrate each other's victories and I keep in touch.

Lisandra de Carvalho: 6:20

And I got married last year and some of them a few them, you know came to my wedding even though I hadn't seen them or talked to them. You know the bond that I created with the friends. There is something very strong and um, and I love it. But it was hard work too. You know, I have, um, some sex that I still remember is almost like ptsd, you know just, I have some sets that I still remember. It's almost like PTSD, you know, just to think about them giving me butterflies in my stomach. But it was a great experience. Yeah, I learned a lot and I grew a lot as an athlete and as a person as well.

Danielle Spurling: 7:02

How did you find living away from home at such a young age? Did you find that difficult?

Lisandra de Carvalho: 7:07

very difficult. Um, I was 18. You know my poor parents, I had barely turned 18 and um, but they trusted me. They knew I wanted to swim. You know that's what I wanted and they trusted me to. And they said you know, your bedroom is always here, you can always come back and I guess having the comfort you know. But I knew I wouldn't come back. You know I already I went on a mission and I was determined and driven to swim well and to do something I loved.

Danielle Spurling: 7:43

Ultimately, and what was that college in Division I, Division II yeah, division I.

Lisandra de Carvalho: 7:52

Yeah, university of Maryland, baltimore County and just outside Baltimore, I absolutely love that city. It makes me smile just thinking about it and those years absolutely love that city. Yeah, it makes me smile just thinking about it and those years. And division one, ecac, um, and I just absolutely loved racing the the winter, that's um when the swimming season was, and competitions every weekend, um and just um representing my, my university it was. It was full-on, but I loved it. I loved it.

Danielle Spurling: 8:31

The team culture there is amazing as well yeah, I mean from a distance it looks amazing, so I can only imagine. Up close. It must be really exhilarating to have that sort of the cheering of your teammates and yeah, exactly, exactly, yeah, it was it was quite special, and you mentioned that you had some killer sets from from back then. What, what's something?

Lisandra de Carvalho: 8:53

that sort of pops into your mind most monday mornings you know it was we used to do 1, 100, 2, 200, 3, 300, 4, 400, 5, 500. It's, it's a 5K. You know, just to boom, start the week I've done 15, 200 butterfly. Oh, that's a killer, it's a killer. And every third at the 150 meter mark we had to scream or yell something or go. Ah, you know, our coach made it fun for us but barely had air. But I remember that, that. You know that we had to scream something in the last lap. That was one of the sets. Or we had some killer um 850s on three minutes but electric acid that we. We had to swim, we had to sit down by the wall and and then go on the block again and swim and sit by the wall. We couldn't move, you know, just let. Yeah, it sounds a bit like torture, but yes, these are some of the sets.

Danielle Spurling: 10:00

Yeah well, no wonder you're so great at turns. You must have had all that practice in short course yards yeah, yeah, short course yards.

Lisandra de Carvalho: 10:07

So you, you either learn, you know, or or you struggle in your races. So, um, I actually my coach, used to hold a broom. This was in the 90s. Yeah, this is in the late 90s. He used to swing a broom. So if you're swimming, fly, and if you didn't touch the wall and turn fast enough, you get swung with a broom on your face. Oh no, that's not good. That's not good. But you know, I'm good at turns. I don't think I ever was hit by the broom, but, yeah, that's good Swimming in the 90s is a different story.

Danielle Spurling: 10:46

Yeah, she wouldn't be able to get away with that now, would you no?

Lisandra de Carvalho: 10:49

no, no, and the aim my coach had with the kickboard. He could pick any swimmer there. Stop them for a stroke correction. You know it was amazing.

Danielle Spurling: 11:01

It'd be like lane three, lay three, third swimmer Bang, throw the kickboard bang and did you roll straight into master swimming after you had finished college or you took a break?

Lisandra de Carvalho: 11:12

No, so I finished college and I took a five year break. Five or six years. I needed a break, you know, when I finished college and I moved to London to do a master's degree as well. So I felt that I dedicated a lot of time to swimming and it was time to dedicate some time to my studies. So and I was a bit burnt out by it all you know from all the years of competition and I was looking forward to having the actual time as well to do other things. You know that I didn't have time to do before, but primarily for my studies.

Danielle Spurling: 11:55

Yes, yes. And so what year did you pick up master swimming again? So?

Lisandra de Carvalho: 12:01

I moved to Australia December 2006. So I think it was end of 2007, beginning of 2008, that I picked up master swimming again and I did a trial with PowerPoints. And I still swim with PowerPoints and I think I don't know if it was 2008 or 9 that brenton ford started coaching us and we had, I don't know, maybe six, eight glorious years with brenton. Um, it, yeah, it was. It was amazing, um, to have him as a coach and it was a good way to to go back to swimming, to master swimming as well.

Danielle Spurling: 12:42

So that's how it all started. Yeah, he's a great coach, really good coach. I used to actually swim with his. I used to swim with his father. Oh, did you? He's a little bit older than me, but Brian.

Lisandra de Carvalho: 12:53

Ford. Yeah, brian Ford, he's lovely, lovely yeah, lovely guy yeah oh, how funny.

Danielle Spurling: 12:59

Yeah it's, it's a small world.

Lisandra de Carvalho: 13:00

Small world. I still, you know, I still ask Brenton to help me with stroke correction. Sometimes you know if I, whenever he's in Melbourne or flying all over the world doing his clinics he's just a great coach and I still I always need help, but I think I I can always improve, but he helps me a lot still yeah, well, he's obviously helped you, but you've got so much talent yourself because last year you were ranked number one in the world in the 200 butterfly in your age group for long course meters.

Danielle Spurling: 13:35

Thank you, walk us through how your training and your dedication got you to that number one spot, because that's something that we all want yeah, thank you, thank you.

Lisandra de Carvalho: 13:48

Well, 200 fly has always been my race, my baby and um, I've not always raced well, you know, I've died. I've died hard, you know I. I know it hurts, um, and I think, especially last year, I think after my 40s, I had to change my training a bit because of recovery. You know, I couldn't do just hard set after hard session after hard session. I need time to recover, and so once I acknowledged that and I did more recovery, you know I could push harder in other sessions. So I basically swim four times a week when the stars align Monday, more long distance, tuesday, combine Friday swim with Jenny Bucknell, fly sprints or fly sets, and then I try either Saturday, or I swim on a Tuesday or Thursday, depending on work.

Lisandra de Carvalho: 14:57

I have different training partners, you know. So whoever can join me? I'm not good at training by myself in the pool. I lost two K partners, you know. So whoever can join me, I'm not good at training by myself in the pool. I lost two Ks, you know. But I prefer to train, yeah, with somebody. So whoever can train with me to make up for this fourth session. So it's basically four sessions in the pool and two sessions in the gym four sessions in the pool and two sessions in the gym um strengthening and conditioning and one yoga. Yeah, I love my yoga. I wish I could do more, but, you know, just for stretching and more mobility as well.

Danielle Spurling: 15:33

So, yeah, and consistency, trying to do, you know, four sessions a week, two gyms, yoga, consistently yes, I think consistency is something that's really important, especially as you age and, as you mentioned, recovery is a crucial part of being a master swimmer. What, what do you find with your recovery? What, what works best for you?

Lisandra de Carvalho: 15:56

yeah, yeah. I think it's hard for me to do back-to-back. So two hard sessions two days in a row. If I do a hard set, let's say on Monday, I need more recovery on Tuesday and then I can go hard again on Wednesday. You know I take creatine, protein collagen, you know all the magnesium in the world. I need to feel my body right as well for it to recover properly.

Danielle Spurling: 16:30

Are you into ice baths at all or massage or anything like that?

Lisandra de Carvalho: 16:35

Oh yes, I have quite a team. I do acupuncture, massage, osteo, you know, depending on what the niggle is the niggle of the week, you know. So I have quite a team, and my physio as well, for my shoulders. You know, I've had quite a few shoulder injuries and elbows and I'm a huge fan of the ice baths as well.

Lisandra de Carvalho: 17:07

I've been doing them for over a year I started my husband. He loves them too, so it's good. It's something we can do together. Which may sound weird, a date, it's like a date, a date, a date. You know we go, there's this place, we go in melbourne. You know we swap between the ice bath and the sauna, you know, but it's, we have a good time and um, but I, I truly believe in nice baths. There's one in msec as well. So sometimes, you know, I pop to the cold pool and um and have a dip there, and it helps with the recovery yeah, yeah, yeah, it's definitely one that, um, I need to put into my schedule.

Lisandra de Carvalho: 17:51

I do have a blow-up ice bath, but I find it so cold, I know, I know, and we do have the blow-up ice baths and, yeah, we used to get five, six bags of ice, but it start. Just set yourself a goal 30 seconds. That's how I started. I didn't go in and love it. I'm Brazilian, I come from the tropics, so that terrified me, that truly terrified me. But I was up for the challenge too, and discovering what aspect of it terrifies me, you know, it's so cold and I really learned how to be mindful in the ice baths and I love it now. I love it. I can't go one week without it. You know, I truly miss it. Yeah, yeah. How long can you stay? Miss it, yeah, yeah.

Danielle Spurling: 18:43

How long can you stay?

Lisandra de Carvalho: 18:44

in. Oh, it depends. Maybe five minutes in a two-degree pool. Wow yeah, impressive. Yeah yeah, it took a while to get there. You know, and you know it depends on if you have your mindset. You know, physically, you know, you'll be more fragile, maybe have a cold or didn't sleep too well, or if you do, at the end of the day, had a bad day at work. You know all those things affected. It's amazing, you know, and I like to sit and figure it out. Why am I struggling so much today? You know, why was it so much easier yesterday or the week before? So it, um, it varies, it, it's not always easy, um, the first 90 seconds is always hard, it's always terrible, you know it's, it's terrible.

Danielle Spurling: 19:46

You know it's, it's, yeah, it's not a walk in the park. Going back to the 200 butterfly, give us, give us the, the strategy that you use to race it, yeah yeah, I am a conservative um swimmer, so the I take it easy.

Lisandra de Carvalho: 19:58

I hold back the first first 100. And then the third 50. So I just try to first lap, you know, slow down. And it's funny because I still get nervous with the 200 fly. It's the only race that gives me the real butterflies in my stomach is the 200 fly. So I just really have to calm down, slow down and just feel the water.

Lisandra de Carvalho: 20:27

The first 50 meters turn, you know, get comfortable in your rhythm. I always breathe every second stroke. Get comfortable in your, in your rhythm, and build then the third lap. Just pick up the pace a bit, because that's normally the slowest. You know, if you swim with 200, people tend to to relax too much on the third lap. So pick up the pace a little bit, work on your turn um, and stay focused.

Lisandra de Carvalho: 20:59

And by this time I'm burning. I'm hurting, you know I'm not, but I'm hurting. You know I'm not. But I'm just trying to calm myself down, calm my mind and focus on my technique as well. You know, by this time my hips are dropping, you know. So keep your hips high, catch the water, you know, stay, keep your rhythm, stay true to your rhythm. And then the last 25 is whatever I have left in the tank, whatever I can give. You know, and sometimes I have more, sometimes I have less. You know, sometimes, um, I'm absolutely, you know, out of air when I get to the wall. Other times I'm like, oh, it wasn't too bad, you know.

Danielle Spurling: 21:41

So that's, that's a wonderful life for me, yeah yeah, I mean, it's a killer of a race, do you? Do you find that you keep this, or do you aim to keep the same stroke rate throughout each of the 450s?

Lisandra de Carvalho: 21:53

yes, yes, so 26 to 20. I count my strokes too um 26. I try 27 strokes and I try to keep the same stroke rate which I normally do. If I'm not, I know there's something seriously wrong there. Yeah, which happens sometimes. You know, recently I think I don't know where it was, but I just had a shocking brace and it hurt and my stroke rate was through the roof. You know, and it happens, you know, it just happens Sometimes. I'm just glad I can get to the wall. Yes, yes.

Danielle Spurling: 22:32

We'll be back with Lissandra after this short break. Did you know that you can now subscribe to the show by becoming a supporter of the show? It helps us continue to put out our weekly content, which is free to all who listen. You can become a subscriber through following the link in our Instagram bio at Torpedo Swim Talk podcast or via the button on our Torpedo Swim Talk website. It's as little as $3 and the subscription will give you extra content, which I know that you'll enjoy. As part of the subscription, you'll get advanced notification that a new episode has dropped. You'll receive four swim training workouts per month, become a member of our private WhatsApp group and get a shout out on the show. Here's a curly question. So I've seen you race in Victoria and you're one of the only women that does the 200 butterfly, so you're often up against men. How do you find that race in terms of the backwash that comes with swimming against them, and what are your thoughts on that?

Lisandra de Carvalho: 23:35

yeah, um, I think this is a conversation we need to have. I um, I'm in Victoria. You know I'm swimming right next to Darius, you know, who is an amazing swimmer, and I love watching him swim, but I don't like swimming next to him. You know, he's such a strong swimmer and there's so much turbulence and wash. You know, this is one example, but I feel, a lot of times I am in the outer lanes, you know, and I have to, and a lot of times I'm the only woman in the, in the heat, you know, in the um, and I just have to deal with a lot of the turbulence and the wave interference and I find it very hard. Sometimes it rattles my cage a little bit. I think sometimes, you know, if it was a heat with all women, it potentially could be better.

Danielle Spurling: 24:36

Yeah, definitely. I mean, maybe that's something that you know Masters Swimming Australia can look at, because, you know, obviously at the World Championships it is single-sex races. I suppose we're a little bit sort of restricted by the amount of people that go into the events, but it's certainly a conversation to have with Master Swimming Australia.

Lisandra de Carvalho: 24:58

Yeah, yeah, it's something. I know that Master Swimming, swimming, queensland. You know they separate men and women in the shorter events. You know, 25, 50, 100 I'm not sure if the 200s included or not, but you know it. Um, they do it, it works for them, you know, I think, um, it's a conversation. We need to start heavy, maybe do a trial, you know, see how other women feel about it. Um, I remember, um the nationals in Hobart. You know, jenny, jenny Bucknell broke a world record and I think she was in lane, I don't know, zero one or nine, I don't know, but I just felt it was so lost in, you know, in the last heat where she was, you know, and um, I think I think women would get more recognition as well, or faster women, you know, if, um, we, if it was separate and also maybe she would have gone faster in that because she was behind the the wave and, being that outside lane, they don't often have that extra lane rope on the side, so you've got the backwash coming against the wall, nothing to stop.

Lisandra de Carvalho: 26:12

Exactly, I know that too well. You know this year and I swam the 100 fly and I again out of lane I think I was the only woman and I just felt the turbulence and the wave and the wash from the man. You know a couple of mouthfuls of water and obviously you deal with it, but you know it could be different. You know it could be different. You know it could be different it could be different.

Danielle Spurling: 26:44

It's definitely a conversation to have, isn't it?

Lisandra de Carvalho: 26:46

absolutely. I invite, yeah, master swimming victoria, master swimming australia, to maybe have this conversation or maybe talk to women and see what other. This is what I think, what I feel. I know jenny feels the same. I know just cinta, who swims at PowerPoint, feels the same. You know, maybe talk to more women and see what the outcome is yeah, and maybe get one of your.

Danielle Spurling: 27:13

you have a PowerPoint delegate on the Master Swimming Victoria Committee, so maybe that's something they could bring up with the committee too, because, yeah, it needs to go through a committee-type discussion, I suppose, before a change can be made.

Lisandra de Carvalho: 27:27

Yeah, yeah. So maybe people from the committee, you know, be more open-minded and be more open to this. I know it's not something easy. As you said, it depends on numbers, you know. But maybe an effort to do a trial, you it might. It could work well or not, but we won't know until it's done, you know exactly.

Danielle Spurling: 27:48

You have to try those things and we want to make sure everyone's got a level playing field yeah, exactly, and and not only performance.

Lisandra de Carvalho: 27:56

You know, I'm not only talking about performance and swimming. But in the marshalling room, you know, to just have you know more women and and the socializing aspect, I race with other women that I they're in my age group, but I don't really know them. You know we don't marshal together, we don't do the cool down together. That's when, you know, the socializing and the conversations happen as well. Um, so you'd be good for for socializing as well yeah, yeah, I agree.

Danielle Spurling: 28:27

All really good points, thank you, thank you. Another area that you like to compete in is open water, and I know you like to do a lot of the big victorian swims over the summer. What attracts you to swimming open water?

Lisandra de Carvalho: 28:41

oh, it's, um, it's a completely different ball game to, to, obviously, swimming in the pool and I, I don't know, I think, um, butterflies tend to be good open water swimmers or better, you know, I don't know if the shoulder, the strength or they're looking up, I don't know what it is, but I absolutely love it. I love the freedom. I love that we have to adjust the conditions on the day, you know, wind, swell, chop and I love that you have to adjust and adapt and it's completely different. I love the change you know from, from following the black line as well, and, um, yeah, um, I absolutely love all the races, you know, during the summer, I try to do as many as I can and they're all very different. You know the all the races. They're so different and sometimes I even forget I get them mixed up. You know the course, but yeah, it's a lot of fun.

Danielle Spurling: 29:49

So I'm still I'll keep doing as long as I'm having fun, which I am and do you, closer to the summer, do you change your training schedule to include open water swimming?

Lisandra de Carvalho: 29:59

Yeah, yeah training schedule to include open water swimming. Yeah, yeah, I train um, so I try to do more long distance sets, shorter rest um higher volume and um I try to jump in in the water. I know it's the melbourne bay, but, you know, just for sighting purposes. But you know it can get quite rough in the bay as well, and I'm not too far from Williamstown, so, and I love swimming, I love swimming Williamstown, so I try to, at least once a week, you know, jump in the bay and have a play yeah, yeah, that sounds good.

Danielle Spurling: 30:36

And what sort of what tips would you give other people if they're about to start doing some open water racing? What have you sort of learned from all the races that you've done?

Lisandra de Carvalho: 30:45

Yeah, yeah, you know it's very individual. You know, I think with open water, number one you've got to be comfortable in the water. You have to be comfortable swimming amongst people. You know there's a bit of argy-bargy at the beginning but it's not terrible with the women. You know it's just, yeah, just a bit of whitewash, a bit of argy-bargy, but you know you can stay away from all that if you like, but be comfortable in that sort of environment. You know there might be an arm in front of you or there might be somebody swimming in front of you that slows down. So, um, and also learn sighting and navigation, because direction is always more important than speed, you know. So learn to sight, learn to navigate, you know, and then and then the speed, because you can be really fast. But if you don't know where you're going, you know what's the point.

Danielle Spurling: 31:45

That's true. Yeah, it's always hard on those really really rough days when you've got big waves to sight, isn't it? And to make sure that you're getting that navigation right.

Lisandra de Carvalho: 31:56

It is so hard. And I am a pool swimmer. You know I'm not an ocean swimmer. I mean I don't pool swimmer, you know I'm not. I'm not an ocean swimmer. I mean I don't consider myself. You know I get by. But I learned, but I'm still not comfortable with the big waves. Um, I'm still a bit, a bit uncomfortable and, um, catching waves for me sometimes is uh, um, it's more luck than skill.

Lisandra de Carvalho: 32:23

Yeah, I have the same situation yes, I'm being completely honest here, it's more of luck than a skill. You know, even though I train. I train with natalie marshall, you know, and she's she's a great swimmer and, um, she's giving me so many tips and and try to help me. But yeah, I'm still learning quite, quite often.

Danielle Spurling: 32:46

I mean for me, the um, the peter pub always has the biggest waves and often I'll see that coming behind when I'm ready to come into the shore. But probably nine times out of ten the wave just goes over the top of me and I don't catch it.

Lisandra de Carvalho: 33:01

I know the feeling.

Danielle Spurling: 33:02

I know the feeling yes. Yeah.

Lisandra de Carvalho: 33:06

Yeah, this year I didn't catch the wave. Last year I did, you know. But I know exactly. I know the feeling. Yeah.

Danielle Spurling: 33:13

Yeah, I think. The one time I did catch the wave I was so surprised I just didn't know what to do with myself.

Lisandra de Carvalho: 33:22

Oh, brilliant. That's great, danielle, just keep going, just keep going, Keep kicking.

Danielle Spurling: 33:30

So looking ahead with your pool swimming. What competitions have you got coming up and what are your sort of your big goals over the next year? Or two Vic States coming up?

Lisandra de Carvalho: 33:40

in two weeks, goals over the next year, or two vic states coming up in two weeks, um. So I I'm not swimming the 200 fly, um, I've had my holiday. I don't think I've done the work, you know, to back myself up, especially in the in the second hundred. So yeah and um, it's so rare that we get to do a 25 fly as well, you know. So I would like to, which for me is mostly on the water anyways, but I, um I'm gonna focus on the shorter distance 25, 1500 fly, um I'll see my swim another stroke, um, just to add points for for my team. Um, after that what I, maybe I will start training oh, pan packs, pan packs.

Danielle Spurling: 34:32

We're going to the pan packs.

Lisandra de Carvalho: 34:33

Yeah, up on the gold coast, yes, up in the gold coast, go to pan packs. It's such a fun, it's, yeah, it's just such a fun meet, such a fun competition and, um, it's guaranteed to have more sun than melbourne anyway very true, so I go there for a bit of sun, you know, and it's just such a fun atmosphere.

Lisandra de Carvalho: 34:56

So pen packs and then start training for the open water season. And, uh, and next year I, um really would like to go to singapore for worlds never done, worlds, um. So it's still yeah, on the bucket list.

Danielle Spurling: 35:13

Yes, and looking at worlds. You, you can pick five, five events. What would you pick? Yeah, uh butterfly.

Lisandra de Carvalho: 35:22

Obviously, you know 50, 100, 200, yeah, and then I will need to to have a look. Maybe some IM, maybe some backstroke. You know, I, when I swam for university in in the states, I used to swim backstroke as well and my backstroke was just as quick as my fly, um, but you know, as a master swimmer I don't have the time to to focus on both and I think I enjoy swimming, play a little bit more anyways. But uh, maybe you know, I'll put more effort into into my backstroke.

Danielle Spurling: 35:56

We'll see yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, you have to look at the program and make sure it all fits into the schedule, because you don't want to be swimming two races on the one day yeah, yeah, yeah, or even some long distance free.

Lisandra de Carvalho: 36:09

I enjoy swimming. You know the 800 400, yes, so I'll have a look at the schedule and see if it doesn't clash with my fly.

Danielle Spurling: 36:18

Yeah, yeah. Well, at least the fly will all be on different days, so that's a good thing. Now, everyone that comes on the podcast, I like to ask them the Deep Dive 5, which is your five favourite things about swimming? So just give me the first thing that pops into your head.

Lisandra de Carvalho: 36:34

Favourite pool that you've ever swum at. There's this pool in Rio de Janeiro. It's right next to the Maracana maracana stadium. It's called julio de la mara swimming pool and and real, you know there's lots of mountains. It's a, so you can see the mountains from the pool and I have fond memories from swimming there. So I think it's not a spectacular, uh, pool, you know, but I have fond memories from the pool and, um, it's also one of I really love old school pools. So they have the swimming pool and they have the diving with the 10 meter platform, yeah, right behind it. I don't know, I just really enjoy the setup as well.

Danielle Spurling: 37:15

So there you go sounds like a nice one. Yeah, how about your favorite psych up song that you would listen to, music song that you would listen to before racing?

Lisandra de Carvalho: 37:26

oh, a psych up song. Um, I love the the hives. They're the swedish rock and roll band. Anything from from their albums you know, anything from the hives you know, will get me going. Um, it's really punchy and um, it really gets you going. How about your favorite butterfly drill? Um, beyond the drill, um, and also single arm butterfly as well? Um, so, single arm, three, three and then three full strokes. Yeah, I just, yeah, I just love the drill, and then, yeah, the beyondy drill what's your interpretation of the beyondy drill so?

Lisandra de Carvalho: 38:07

um, um. You have the visual here, but I'm gonna try to explain for the listeners as well. Just um, do some sculling and do a really fast catch, you know, and finish as if you're throwing the water up in the air, and then go back to sculling again and then catch and pull. That's my interpretation.

Danielle Spurling: 38:33

That's so interesting because I've had Matt Biondi on the podcast and he claims that he doesn't even know what the beyondy drill is. I know it's so funny and he's sort of a bit. I think it was a bit put out that all these people are claiming that the beyond beyondy drill and I've just added to the one more. I think it's. I think it's a nice thing that everyone thinks of him in that way. Yeah, yeah, I'll be, honoured if there was a Lysandra Drew, a Drew after you named after you?

Lisandra de Carvalho: 39:09

Yeah, after me, you know. So, yeah, it's no offence, but I love your, Drew, whether it's yours or not.

Danielle Spurling: 39:17

And how about your favourite training set that you do sort of currently? What's a go-to that you go to?

Lisandra de Carvalho: 39:24

There is a training set that I do for endurance. I do this a lot with Natalie Marshall. It's eight 200s with a travelling 50 fly. So the first 200, the first 50, the second 200, the second 50, the third 200, the third 50, fourth 200, the fourth 50, and back to the first 200, the first 50, the second 200, the second 50, the third 200, the third 50, fourth 200, the fourth 50, and back to the first 50. And when we really fit we do this on 250. And at the moment we're sitting at the three-minute mark. But yeah, we work into or sometimes know we go to 50 to 55, but ultimately, you know it's almost like a test set I'd like to get down to 250 yeah and um for lactic acid, um uh 850s.

Lisandra de Carvalho: 40:15

I'll fly two on 130, two on 120, two on 110, two on 110, and two on a minute and that hurts a lot.

Danielle Spurling: 40:28

Yes, trying to keep the same time, absolutely yeah.

Lisandra de Carvalho: 40:31

Yeah, don't drop a second. You know trying to keep the same time the whole way, so that's great for you know. If you're racing 200, fly the whole way, so that's great for you know. If you're racing to underfly, the pain you feel at the end is the exact same feeling and exactly the same pain you know you feel at the race.

Danielle Spurling: 40:51

At the race. Yes, yeah, it's a horrible feeling, but we keep going back for more.

Lisandra de Carvalho: 40:57

Yeah, yeah, it's a horrible feeling and I know you're doing your deep five, but I'm just going to go off on a small tangent here. Not only I think swimming is great for that, but the swimming for me is also where I work through my emotions and the discomfort of my emotions, you know. So, just like meditation, you know, and swimming, deep inhalations, deep exhalations, you know, go, go inside. How am I feeling today? You know, um, I, you know, a bit insecure, a bit angry, you know, approach it with curiosity, these feelings, with no judgment. The same way, when I'm doing this set, you know why am I dying? Or, you know, am I feeling so negative now when I'm hurting, and just approach this discomfort with curiosity and more kindness? And I only learned how to do that as a master swimmer. I didn't know that before. It's a skill that I'm still perfecting, I'm still doing it every day that I learned as a master swimmer.

Danielle Spurling: 42:25

I think it's a wonderful reflection. I mean, that's something that's hard as a young swimmer to appreciate, because it's sort of life experience comes into that as well.

Lisandra de Carvalho: 42:36

Exactly, and it's all about performance as well. You know, as a master swimmer, I sometimes go to the pool just to do a few laps, you know, for fun or I don't know. Just to give an example you know, yesterday, I don't know I had a bad day. I took my pet to the vet. I had bad news. You know, she had to be admitted. You know she had to be admitted. So I changed some things around my work schedule and I went to the pool, you know, and I was able to process everything and my emotions, my the feelings of sadness, and I came out of the water. Different person picked her up, you know, a different person and it just helps me so much, you know, with um, with my feelings, with my emotions as well, not only um the health and physical aspects. You know this is so important for my mental health as well, um, anyhow, you can go back to your five questions sorry, no, no, that's good.

Danielle Spurling: 43:39

I I love talking about that kind of stuff and I I think, like during COVID, that's when I noticed, when we couldn't swim for a while, how much that side of swimming I had taken for granted and didn't think about it. And I think since then I've thought much more about that side, of that sort of meditation that you get when you're swimming, exactly exactly, and don't get me wrong, wrong, I can be just meditating.

Lisandra de Carvalho: 44:04

I'm still thinking of where my elbow is high elbow. I come back, you know, do my checks, but you know, I still, I still I think it's possible to do well.

Danielle Spurling: 44:16

I think so too. Yeah, and I was going to ask what was your favorite race and favorite swimmer from the paris games? What, what, what sort of struck you as outstanding? Yeah?

Lisandra de Carvalho: 44:27

yeah, um this paris games. I loved watching kelly mccune um race I. I just think she is such a skilled athlete swimmer and especially, yeah, when she finished the race, her elation and the excitement, you know, almost relief. I really enjoyed watching the 100 and 200 back and her last 10-15 meters. You know there's she can just dig so deep for the, those last 10-15 meters um I. I really enjoyed those races yeah, yes, yeah, I agree.

Danielle Spurling: 45:09

I mean she really, until those last 10 or 15 minutes she didn't look like she was going to win either yeah, 100 or the 200, and she just dug so deep. Yeah, she makes it happen she makes it happen.

Lisandra de Carvalho: 45:21

Yeah, yeah, I wish I knew where the switch is, you know?

Danielle Spurling: 45:25

yes, me too. Usually at that point I just can't. I can't dig any deeper. It's good to watch someone else do it exactly, exactly.

Lisandra de Carvalho: 45:36

I thought I mean there were lots of great swims, but yeah, that's what came to mind.

Danielle Spurling: 45:42

Yeah, fantastic. Well, Sandra, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today. It's been a delight speaking to you and hearing all about your swimming journey.

Lisandra de Carvalho: 45:51

Thank you, thanks, danielle. It was a pleasure. I really enjoyed our chat Me too.

Danielle Spurling: 45:57

Okay, well, take care and good luck at States in two weeks. Thank you, I'll see you there. Yeah, absolutely Okay. Bye for now. Bye for now, take care, bye. Thanks for listening in to today's episode. I hope you enjoyed hearing all about Lysandra's journey and can take something away from the episode to help you in your own swim journey, because that's what we're here for. Till next time, happy swimming and bye for now.