Torpedo Swimtalk Podcast with Brenton Rickard - Olympic and World Championship medallist talks about the triumphs and challenges of competing

Olympic medalist Brenton Rickard joins us on this episode of Torpedo Swimtalk Podcast sharing his remarkable journey from world-class swimmer to influential sports administrator.  He opens up about his journey from elite swimmer to sports administrator, sharing stories of Olympic highs and lows, setting world records, and the doping scandal he was falsely accused of and then later exonerated from.

Brenton provides a firsthand account of the pressures and triumphs of his own Olympic competition and offers insights into the recent swimming events in Paris. He delves into the intricacies of breaststroke evolution, spotlighting athletes like Adam Peaty and Zac Stubblety-Cook, and discusses the Olympic Village experience.

We dive deep into Brenton's rigorous training routines that shaped his path to success, from the disappointment of missing the Athens 2004 Olympics to the glory of securing silver in Beijing 2008. He reveals the nuances of competitive swimming, including the importance of mental preparation, adapting to different formats, and the sheer thrill of winning an Olympic medal. Brenton's stories of setting a world record and the highs and lows of close races provide a captivating look at the life of an elite swimmer during the era of high-tech swimsuits.

Brenton's transition from athlete to sports administrator is equally fascinating. He recounts his role in organising the 2022 FINA World Short Course Championships as CEO and the challenges of event planning under tight deadlines. We explore the future of swimming, the need for specialised stroke training, and the evolution of the Commonwealth Games. Brenton's reflections on his career, both in the pool and behind the scenes, offer a heartfelt exploration of resilience, dedication, and a lasting passion for the sport. Join us for an episode brimming with insights and behind-the-scenes stories from one of swimming's greats.

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Chapters

• 0:09 Swimming Legends
• 10:03 Olympic Silver Medal Memories
• 21:14 World Champion Swimsuit Era Memories
• 26:47 Event Planning and Sporting Challenges
• 44:10 Commonwealth Games, Open Water, Form Strokes

Transcript

Danielle Spurling: 0:09

Hello swimmers and welcome to another episode of Torpedo Swim Talk podcast. I'm your host, Danielle Sprling, and each week, we chat to an inspiring swimmer from around the world about their swimming journey. Today, I speak with Olympic medalist from Beijing and London, brenton Rickard. Brenton was a superstar in breaststroke swimming, with a world record and world championship in 2009, as well as Commonwealth Games medals along the way. He now works as a sports administrator for the Commonwealth Games Foundation and has a unique perspective about swimming, both from then and now, as well as a doping scandal which he has had to go through after being falsely accused of doping. So, as you can see, we had a lot to talk about. Let's hear from Brenton now. Hi Brenton, welcome to the podcast.

Brenton Rickard: 1:05

Thanks for having me.

Danielle Spurling: 1:06

Yeah, you're so welcome. Where are you based in Australia now and do you get much swimming in these days?

Brenton Rickard: 1:12

I'm on the Gold Coast these days, so I've been here for 15-odd years, finished my swimming career here and started my professional career here. I guess I do get in once a week or so. I've got two fairly young kids so it's hard to find much more time for swimming other than that, but I still do quite enjoy it.

Danielle Spurling: 1:31

Yeah, do you swim alone when you get in or are you with some mates?

Brenton Rickard: 1:36

A better mixture of both. My wife and I tried to have a bit of a routine of going once a week together, which was quite nice. She's not a swimmer, but it was just nice to have some company. I did have a group of ex-swimmers as well that we used to swim a bit with, but it's just hard to to schedule times when we're all three, unfortunately, so most of the time I do end up swimming alone.

Danielle Spurling: 2:01

Yeah, how old are your kids?

Brenton Rickard: 2:04

Emily's about turn eight and Ollie's about turn five. So Ollie starts school next year, which he's very excited for.

Danielle Spurling: 2:12

Yeah, look, that's such an intensive time in family life. It's so hard to sort of get time away from that when you've got kids and they've got their own sport commitments as well. So good on you for getting to the pool. I think that's great. Yeah, as I I said, still really enjoy it. It's just finding the time. That's the high part.

Brenton Rickard: 2:32

Yeah, absolutely did you enjoy watching the swimming in Paris? I did, I did. It was um, it was an interesting meet, like, uh, some events were phenomenally fast, some events were, I guess, surprisingly slow maybe not surprisingly, but not but not as quick as you expected, but just the level of competition and there's just, I guess, every chance, but every Olympics in particular, there's just mind-blowing performances. Leon Marchand doing what he did was just out of this world, and likewise, yeah, that 100 metre free was insane.

Danielle Spurling: 3:06

So, yeah, just every meet just surprises us, again and again yeah, and I mean, in 20 years, no one is going to remember the times. It's the, the olympic medal, that they remember, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely what do you put the, the sort of slower times across the board down to? Are you, are you along this theory of the shallow pool?

Brenton Rickard: 3:26

Yeah, I've certainly had my fair share of swimming in shallow pools and I think it does make a small difference. I think also, when you look at how much technology ends up in the water these days between rail cams and lap counters and other cameras, still cameras, video cameras, that no doubt just adds to the drag across the pool. But I think the other part is, you know, olympic finals are tense and sometimes that whole feel, that whole, all the contestants can feel that tension and just not quite necessarily from the best time. It's more about the race, it's about beating the, the people on either side of you, versus just posting a time. So sometimes you see, yeah, especially semi-finals be very quick and then the final be a touch slower, because it's more about the race than than the time and I mean, how difficult is it when you get into the olympic village and you have to deal with all the pressures there as well?

Brenton Rickard: 4:28

It comes with the territory. I think it's one of those ones that, yeah, I'm a sports fan. So you go into an Olympic Village and you see, you know, I remember going into Beijing and seeing Serena Williams lining up at the dining hall the first time I was there You're just like wow, you know, like legends of their particular sports. So there's that side of it. But I mean, in terms of pressure, I always felt like the expectations we had for ourselves was always sky high. Anyway, you know, you're there, you're not there to make up a field, you're there to compete. You're there to win medals, you're there to try to win the thing. Make up a field, you're there to compete. You're there to win medals, you're there to try to win the thing. And so you know, I don't think anything externally ever mounts close to to what your own expectations are for yourself and what you're trying to achieve and looking at your pet events the uh, the breaststroke 100 and 200.

Danielle Spurling: 5:19

What did you think of those two races in Paris for the men?

Brenton Rickard: 5:23

Yeah, like I don't mean this in a term of slander or anything like that, but I was surprised that the 100 wasn't one in a quicker time. Like you know, there were a number of guys you know that have made 58 standard, which you know. Back when I swam, you know my world record was 58, 58, 5, 8 and that was the quickest ever at the time. So you know that they, you know I think adam pd is an absolute legend of the stroke and what he did to move the event forward the 100 breaststroke forward is, you know, was really quite groundbreaking and I think over time people have learned to swim that way as well and so you saw much more of the world swimming into that 58 lows and and and 57s by 57s, um, so then to see in the final that yeah, 59, oh was, was kind of a bit bit surprising, um, but then I think the 200, like you know, zach I've had a bit to do here with zach in australia and um, my old coach was vince, who coached jack as well.

Brenton Rickard: 6:32

So we we've had a connection for a number of years and so you know to see him swim as well as he did, like his swim was pretty high level, like there's not too many swims in history quicker than that. But then have leon do what he did in the way he did it like 205 from a non-breaststroke specialist is just. It was mind-blowing really to see him and to have done it after already doing a the 200 fly final that day, and the way he did that was just just incredible. So, um, I think certainly in the hundred, like the depth of competition continues to develop and grow and that you know the 60, 60 points not going to get you anywhere, but at the same time to not have that really, really high-end performance to win the gold medal was was somewhat surprising.

Danielle Spurling: 7:24

And I know you had a bit to do with Zach. You just said what do you think about his tactics with the way he swims the 200, with coming home on that giving everyone? A heart attack and coming home so fast on the last one.

Brenton Rickard: 7:36

Yeah, look, I think one of the absolute great things about breaststroke is people really swim it to suit their own physiology, both in terms of their technique but also their tactics. Um, and zach is one of those guys that can do breaststroke today and and so you've got to lean into that strength and that is, you know he doesn't have front end speed to burn, so you know he's never going to go out and you know, 60-point in the 200 breast, like Leon did. So instead you've just got to be able to come home over the top. So I think, you know, I think watching the semi, you're kind of going right. You've got to put yourself in the race a little bit more than that, but I think in the final he did.

Brenton Rickard: 8:22

He swam it the way he should swim it, which he was, you know, mid-pack at the halfway turn and mowing people down. It was just that leon just swam an incredible race and gave himself such a lead that you know he could couldn't be caught. So there I, as I said, I think it's one of the great things about breaststroke that we all you know you can really lean into your strengths and you know, and and swim technically that way, but also tactically that way and the way that vince used to coach you with the 100 and 200 breaststroke.

Danielle Spurling: 8:54

Is that this exactly the same way he's doing that with zach now, or has it changed a lot over the?

Brenton Rickard: 8:59

years it, it, it's evolved. It's evolved a bit, but also it's it's. It's the difference in our physiologies. Like I'm you know, I'm six foot four and used to race at 92, 93 kilos.

Brenton Rickard: 9:13

Like I'm a fairly large man and and zach is ripped, but he's smaller and less powerful but, as as we mentioned, he can do it for days. So you know, speaking to vince, we'll talk about sets I used to do and you know there were sets that would would wipe me out like I'd, by the end of it, I was, I was cooked, and he'd be like, oh yeah, so zach does that, and then he'll do another 500 meters of effort or whatever. You're just like how, how ow. But it's also that like, yeah, as I said, zach probably doesn't have that real high-end speed that I had, and so doesn't necessarily. Yeah, physiologically we're just different athletes. So Zach still does a lot of stuff that I did and a lot of similar methods. He can just do it better for longer.

Danielle Spurling: 10:03

Basically, what were some of those sets that you remember from that time that you used to have to swim?

Brenton Rickard: 10:08

um, yeah, it's, it's. Oh, there's a range, there's some, um, I guess especially 100 meter sets that were back in speed that we would kind of do you know a 50, a 50 max, a bit of whatever, 200, easy, and then we'd do three sets of 350s, um, back end speed type thing. So you kind of end up with 500 meters, whereas I'm pretty sure speaking to vince that you know zach does three sets of 450s and you know it's, it's the 450 that'll get you a type thing and and he'll still be right to do more stuff after that. You know we did a fair bit of broken 200 work for me.

Brenton Rickard: 10:48

You know, probably a bit of history for the listeners, like 2004, when I missed the Athens team, I wasn't even swimming the 200 breaststroke and four years later I'm an Olympic medalist. So those four years was very much developed in teaching me and developing training to help me swim a 200 breaststroke as a bigger, more powerful athlete than a lot of the 200 meter guys. So we did a lot of 200 broken stuff and and same things like we might do. You know four, four, four broken twos and and zach will do six and and just just that type of thing, or do you know? Whereas I'd have, you know, I guess, a 30-second rest interval between efforts, he'll do it on 24. You know, he's just that special of an athlete in terms of his physiology and how much he can get out of himself. He can just do things more or in less rest. It's.

Danielle Spurling: 11:46

It's pretty impressive well, you've also had impressive results because, as you just touched on, in beijing you brought home silver in that 200 breast and you got silver in the men's medley relay. What are your memories of those races?

Brenton Rickard: 12:01

it's that real hard thing about swimming that often the good swims are quite blurry. Like you, you just remember bits, and often the good swims are quite blurry. Like you, you just remember bits and pieces. The bad swims stick with you clear as day forever.

Brenton Rickard: 12:10

But um, for me it's such a special defining moment of my career, as I said, I I missed Athens. You know I was a Australian record holder going into the Athens trials and really I was probably arrogant as a 20-year-old and didn't prepare properly and all those things and didn't perform at trials and miss the team by, you know, a tenth or two of a second and kind of had the question of do I want to keep doing this? Do I want to, you know, keep swimming? Do I just want to walk away? And you know I made the choice pretty early on that I still felt I had something to do, but as much success as I had in the three years after that, it wasn't until Beijing that I really felt like I could redeem myself for lack of a better phrase and, you know, have that training achievement or get that opportunity back to go to an Olympics that I'd missed four years earlier. So it was a very different experience than 2004 in terms of. You know, when I stood on the blocks at trials, I had absolute confidence in my preparation and what I was capable of and what I could do.

Brenton Rickard: 13:26

I think, getting over making the team and putting that part behind me, but looking to actually go to the Games. I had an excellent preparation and I did things in preparation for that that I'd never physically been capable before. But you also get there and realize that everyone in the world does that, like it's the olympics, where you get the best out of yourself but everyone's getting the best out of yourself. So as much as you've lifted your game, so is everyone else. So, um, I think I got fifth in the hundred at the start of the week and swam well and was, I think, a tenth of a second off a bronze medal.

Brenton Rickard: 14:04

But you know, you just kind of sit there and go right. This is how it's going to be. I've got to be right on point for this 200 a few days later. And so the 200 is special because, as I said, I wasn't doing it four years earlier. It was something I'd really worked hard to teach myself how to do and develop a way of training for me to be competitive in it. And the other part is I think I did the fifth fastest 200 breaststroke at the Beijing Olympics, like there were some guys, because we did nighttime heats and morning finals.

Brenton Rickard: 14:37

That's right yes, there were some very fast heat swims that first night because everyone was amped up, you know nighttime swimming, um, but once again, part of what we'd done in our preparation was the majority of our quality work in the morning, because that's when we were going to do finals. So, um, you know, I think I was in lane six for the final um and pretty much swam the race, know exactly how we kind of planned it for the four years that we kind of developed how I was going to swim it and yeah, it was kind of the opposite of the 100. There was, I think, three of us that touched within 0.2 of a second but I was the first one to touch out of that group and so I get the silver medal. You know, kazuki Kitajima from Japan won. He won both the 100 and 200 and was really the gold standard at the time and you just kind of have to tip your hat. As good as I was, he was a cut above, but I just remember touching that wall and going my God, I've got a silver medal at the Olympics. Yeah, I've done it, done everything I could, but also like physically just exhausted, like just absolutely all I could give um, and and the other part. You know, the little piece of sporting history that I say I was involved with was we then, a couple of days later, do the 4x1 and when Michael Phelps is winning his eighth gold medal, we're on the second place podium, which it'd be a much cooler story that if we'd stopped him winning the eighth gold medal, and I'd feel a lot better about it as well. But that's a special piece of history to be a part of and that's one of those ones.

Brenton Rickard: 16:28

Like, we had a very you know, the three other boys won a medal in their individual strokes. You know, hayden won a medal in the 100 back, andrew Lauderstein in the 100 fly and Eamon Sullivan was second in the 100 free, and so my fifth place in the 100 breaststroke was actually the lowest performance out of the group individually. So we had a pretty stacked team. But you know, the Americans, like they always are, were similar, like they had medalists across the board and we were kind of neck and neck, and Phelps' leg in particular, particular. He absolutely smashed out the butterfly leg and just probably took that race just that little bit out of arms. Like then I think we got beaten by a third of a second or so. So we were right there, but just not quite good enough.

Brenton Rickard: 17:16

Um, and, and I, you know, my recollection of that experience is, yeah, as I said it was, it was michael. Take gold medal. You know, I'd won a silver medal, I think, three days earlier and I barely slept, slept or stopped smiling for those three days, like you. Just so, and part of what made phelps so great was, you know, in that time I think he'd won three events. He'd won the hundred fly, he'd won that medley relay, um, and something else, maybe the 400 IM or 200 200 I am might have been 200, I am in the 100 fly and you're just kind of like how do you just keep doing these performances and and just like letting it wash over you and physically getting yourself back to a state to swim fast again and mentally and emotionally getting yourself. And he was just a machine that week. So that's my recollection of that race more than anything, like we did a good job but we just weren't quite good enough, but you just were in awe of what he was capable of doing.

Danielle Spurling: 18:17

Yeah Well, a silver medal, two silver medals at the Olympics. He's nothing to sneer about. I think it's the most brilliant swimming and you should be so proud of yourself.

Brenton Rickard: 18:28

Yeah don't get me wrong, I am incredibly proud and, as I said, especially that 200, considering going from not swimming the event to medalling in it for being a silver medalist in it is, I think, a reflection of the work Vince and I did and, as I said, it was really there was a lot of thought put into the training for it because, as I said, I'm not a natural 200 breaststroker. We've kind of discussed the difference between me and Zach but at the same time, like finding a way to get that type of performance out of me, both in terms of my body and my physiology.

Brenton Rickard: 19:07

um, yeah was was, I think, a real special achievement he must be a really great coach, vince yeah, I've got a.

Brenton Rickard: 19:16

You know, I started swimming with Vince when I was 10, so he was kind of my coach all through my formative teenage years and then into my elite years. So and I think he's one of the things I give Vince a lot of credit for. Two things is one, he's a real planner and thinker. He does look at the whole season, the whole year, the whole Olympic cycle and kind of look at how we're going to use that time and what we're going to of look at how we're going to use that that time and what we're going to focus on and where we're going to race and those things.

Brenton Rickard: 19:50

And I think the other thing is he's learned and adapted, like the vince that I started swimming with in the mid 1990s. Is is different to the vince that zach swam with the last whatever six, eight years. So I think it's easy for anyone who has some level of success to go. This is how I do things and this is what I'm going to do. Whereas Vince learnt, he evolved. He's coached sprinters, he's coached breaststrokers, he's coached backstrokers, he coached just Santa Catarina and the open water swimming.

Danielle Spurling: 20:28

Like he's had a real range of of athletes and and adapted and evolved to each, each personality and each, I guess, personal physiology as well and from that wonderful beijing sort of results that you had, you went on the next year to win a gold medal at the world champs in the 100 breast, so you sort of flipped it back to the 100 next time around. How did that race go and how did you feel about it?

Brenton Rickard: 20:55

yeah, like once again those, those two swims between probably that, that 200 breast at the olympics and the 100 breast world record and world title at the Rome World Champs in 09, are probably the two swims that I consider my greatest swims. It's a really hard one because it was in the era of swimsuits, so we, you know it makes it hard to understand how that swim compares Like don't get me wrong, you know all eight of us lined up in a suit and I was the first one to the wall and I'd done it faster than anyone else. So I don't think it necessarily takes away from the world title or the world record. I think it's more so that for years after, when the rules went back, I kind of sit there and go, well, this was a good swim, what's that like comparatively? So that part of it is always is always a difficult part of of swimming in era. And you know it coincided with me being in my mid-20s, in my peak physical years, so but I just remember, you know I'd had a great preparation, we were really confident about the 100. And you know we were there to race and win. Like I just I remember going, you know I'm here and it was a.

Brenton Rickard: 22:22

Really, if you watch the replay of that race, it was a really close field and I just remember like coming off the wall and just nailing the turn and just feeling like I was invincible for you know, probably for 40 metres off that wall, like the last 10 metres, like there's no tomorrow, and just feeling like I was, yeah, I was just charging through the water basically, and I kind of did like I wasn't out. In hindsight, yeah, I probably would have gone out a bit quicker if I had my time again. But ultimately for that race I just kind of was mid-pack at the turn and then just kind of came off the wall. I was a bit long on the touch, which a lot of people remind me of when they see it, but stretched my fingers and got into the wall basically. But you know, another one of those cases where it was a close finish and I was on the right side of it, you know, and when you look back across a career that spans probably, you know, 10, 11 years on the Australian team, I had my fair share of both sides of it.

Brenton Rickard: 23:31

I think I got touched out by 0.01 at the Melbourne Commonwealth Games in 2006. And you know, between Beijing and Rome. I probably got two touches by less than a tenth of a second each. So it kind of across the grand scheme of things. You probably win some and you lose some, but it's nice when you're on the winning side of it and to that point I'd probably won a lot of minor medals, silver medals, bronze medals.

Brenton Rickard: 23:57

So that was really the first time we'd won a relay at World Champs prior to that, but that was really the first time I got to stand on the top step and have the anthem played in your honour and that side of it is really special. And I think that part of breaking the world record you know at the time and still to this day, being being the winner was the most important thing. You know we we're competitive and to be the best in the world. But you know now that I have kids and explaining to them that once upon a time daddy had a world record and that there was a point in history where no human being had done 100 meters of breaststroke quicker than me, and letting that sink into their heads and and then get some understanding of it, you know that side of it's pretty cool to see them understand. You know more than just oh yeah, dad, I thought you liked swimming to actually kind of go well, you're actually pretty, pretty good at that, so I think that side of it's pretty special as well.

Danielle Spurling: 25:01

Yeah, I mean you reflect back on it now. I mean you were the fastest person in the world. That just blows my mind.

Brenton Rickard: 25:09

Yeah, and, as I said, like I still love the fact that I won, like I'd much rather be the world champion than to have broken the world record at some other event, but to do them both at the one the one race and the race that mattered. You know, we always talked a lot about keeping your best performance for the race that mattered most, which was the final, and so to do it there in the one the one race was was really special.

Danielle Spurling: 25:35

And you were on the Australian team for such a long time and had a number of leadership roles sort of during that time and you are obviously now in sports admin. Is that one of the reasons that you went into that?

Brenton Rickard: 25:49

No, I wouldn't say I like I really enjoyed the team leadership roles that I had back on the team. Like I didn't necessarily like it was an honour, but it was also one of those things that nearly all of it was things I was going to do either way, and I think there's a whole number of members on the team that don't necessarily put their hand up to be a team leader or captain, but play an important role leadership role within the swimming group, um, and so all that stuff was always stuff that I felt like I was going to do. Yeah, regardless, I'm happy to happy to put my hand up and and do that, but also I I really recognise that there was a lot of people, a lot of teammates of mine, that played such important roles that never actually were formally recognised for it. The sports administration and especially events side of things that I do was just happenst, since, really, I moved from Canberra to the Gold Coast end of 2009 after I won that world title, and it just coincidentally was when the Gold Coast was bidding to host the 2018 Commonwealth Games, and so I ended up being a little bit of an athlete ambassador for the bid, just by chance that I was here at the time, which they of course then won, and so through that process got to know a little bit about, I guess, the Commonwealth Games bidding process, the organisation, the organising committee and so whatever.

Brenton Rickard: 27:39

Two, three years later, when I got back from the London Olympics, I ran into one of the staff members from the bid, who's now a staff member at the organising committee, and she asked me to come in to speak to the I think they had 24-odd staff at that stage and kind of asked me the question was raised about whether I would keep swimming or and at that stage I was like I think I will there's a couple things I want to keep trying with my career, but I know I'm not necessarily going to swim another four years to the next Olympics. And then you know, what would you like to do after swimming? And I just coincidentally said, oh yeah, I'd actually think I'd like to work at the Gold Coast Commonwealth Games. It's here, it's something that I know a little bit about now, and I basically left that day with a part-time job while I was swimming.

Brenton Rickard: 28:32

So I think I was number 26 or 27 to start at the organising committee that had 1,200 staff by games time. So I saw it go from this small little group of us to a huge, mammoth workforce to deliver a big and successful game. So yeah, it was not something that I necessarily thought a lot about in the lead up to that date but yeah, I coincidentally volunteered my time a little bit to be an ambassador and then kind of fell in love with it. So I've been doing doing events and sports admins since then.

Danielle Spurling: 29:12

And in 2022, Melbourne took over last minute to host the FINA World Short Course Champs and you were appointed executive director. Can you share with us how you were able to pull that together in such a short amount of time? Because it was what? Six to eight months or something.

Brenton Rickard: 29:29

Yeah, it was short and it was a phenomenal experience and I'm incredibly grateful both for the opportunity to do. The role and the help I had or the staff members I worked with were incredible, but also I would not put myself or other people through that again. So basically it must have been about May 2022,. I get a call saying, hey, australia might host World Swimming Champs, short course, would you head it up? And my initial response was no, because at the time I was working for the Commonwealth Games Federation. I was going to have to spend a month in Birmingham for the Birmingham Games in July, august 22, and Eugenie Buckley, who was CEO of Swimming Australia, basically twisted my arm a little bit and said well, look, you can start now. Get some staff in, get things rolling, go do your month over there and when you come back, you can kind of have the last. You know, get some staff in, get things rolling, go do your month over there and when you come back, you can kind of have the last whatever four months to event time, which, yeah, sounds good. But yeah, it's not that simple, especially when you're executive director. You kind of I was, you know, up in the morning at 5 o'clock, uk time doing meetings with Australia, to then go do 14, 16 hour days at the games, to go to bed at midnight. So, um it was.

Brenton Rickard: 31:06

It was pretty taxing and demanding, um, but I am phenomenally proud of the event we put on in the time frame and for me, a big part of it was with the budget we had. You know, we had a significant amount of money, but in the grand scheme of things, you know, significantly less than what had been spent on events like this in the past. So you know, to give you a bit of an idea, I think Doha World Champs, which was early 23 and had all the disciplines sorry, early this year, early 24. And so that had all the aquatic disciplines, just not pool swimming. But it had a budget about 25 times larger than ours to do eight disciplines compared to one. So we didn't quite have that that level of of of cash.

Brenton Rickard: 32:02

But we also, you know we knew, australians love swimming. We've got a, got a pool there, msac, that has hosted big events. Um, and as long as there was some flexibility from FINA, now World Aquatics, which there was, we can deliver a great event. And we had a point of difference. Like usually, world Short Course is December every even year in a Northern hemisphere country, which means it's winter, it's's dark, it's cold, it's potentially snowing outside, and you can come to melbourne and, and although we copped some rain the first couple days, we had very cold weather then.

Brenton Rickard: 32:48

Yeah, it was cold but the sun, the sun did come out for the last, you know, three, four days of the event and it was beautiful, um, and we had 13 world records in a week, which is, um, pretty amazing, um, for an event that had a whatever seven month lead in time. So I know, you know, uh, ingrid proud and jody hawkins and, um, the swimming austral Australia events team that you know I asked a lot of them and they delivered. But, yeah, I wouldn't be comfortable asking that much of anyone again. Having gone through it and knowing what was required to deliver an event on that amount of time and with those budget constraints, I wouldn't do that again on anyone.

Danielle Spurling: 33:38

Well. From the outside, looking in, it looked very successful and it was smooth running the whole way and everything worked well around msac in terms of logistics, like parking and getting into the venue and everything.

Brenton Rickard: 33:50

So you must all be very proud with the way it turned out yeah, yeah, and, and, yeah, as I said, um, yeah, and, and I think also there's that element of the, the look of it. You know the, the broadcast pictures that went around the world, the, the little bits of australian that we did that.

Brenton Rickard: 34:08

You know the indigenous design of the logo and on the medals, the use of the brighton beach boxes to walk out to receive their medals, like they're all things that I I feel not necessarily uniquely australian, but something that we made the effort to bring to the table that you know, sometimes a swimming champs can be a pool in a big dark box and that's what it is, whereas, you know, msac is is semi-enosed, so we had the sun setting in the west and the beautiful summer light and all these things that we kind of leaned into to make it something a bit different than the normal. So, yeah, I'm incredibly proud of all that.

Brenton Rickard: 34:50

And what are you working on at the moment, if you're allowed to tell us, I'm back working for the Commonwealth Games Federation, so it's been a big period for them, obviously, with everything that happened in Victoria last year, but we're working hard to hopefully find a host for 26. And so I know there's been a fair bit in the media about that, but we continue to work hard to find a solution because we're all very firm believers that it has an important place on the sporting calendar. It has an important place in the hearts of Australians and members of the Commonwealth. So, yeah, trying to find a solution that works for 26 and moving forward for 2030 and beyond.

Danielle Spurling: 35:39

Yeah, yeah, absolutely Now, in 2020,. You had one of the biggest challenges in your life, and that was being falsely accused of doping, and I wanted to touch on this from a mental health perspective and find out how you worked your way through that.

Brenton Rickard: 35:55

Slowly and hardly. So it was obviously it's. It's a shattering experience that to go through um. It's one of those ones that it completely comes from out of the blue. Nothing, nothing you can do, can prepare you for that moment or um, and can prepare you for that moment, and there's a real, I guess natural tension between how you feel and how you feel others might perceive you once it happens. So from a mental health standpoint it was complicated because one.

Brenton Rickard: 36:37

I got notified, I guess maybe six weeks before the world shut down with COVID, which included the lab that needed to test my B sample. So you kind of go through the initial process of understanding what you're being accused of or what the, what the the substance is and what the the legal process is to try to prove your innocence, um, and then there's some um I guess, the technical side of things about getting your b sample tested, um and and through it all. In my case I had the real guilt and doubt about. You know, we won a bronze medal in the medley relay at the end of that week after the 200 brushstroke, which is when the test happened. So you know, potentially being responsible for myself and five other gentlemen losing a bronze medal is, is probably that the hardest weight to bear, um, and there is no yeah, negotiating or deal making or any of those things. It's. It's not not a question of brent and you're getting punished, it's it's the team gets disqualified. So that part of it was probably the hardest part From a mental health point of view.

Brenton Rickard: 38:06

There's probably a few things that I didn't realise were taking as significant a toll on me as they were. One of them was that you know only months earlier, um, one of them was that, you know, only months earlier, shana jack's confidentiality got broken and and I had a real fear of me waking up one day and finding out that mine had been broken and that it would be a story. So that feeling of potential, uh disaster was, um, was quite real, and it's one of those things that you know week after week, month after month. It really takes a toll on you, it really adds up and with that then comes I guess the other thing that took a real toll on me was, you know, keeping my circle quite tight in terms of who I told, and so for a large part of it I hadn't even spoken to the relay boys One and, I guess, other close friends that I didn't tell and part of it was, you know, there was that hope that you know the beast temple comes back negative. You've got no, no case to answer. You can put it all behind you. It's almost a feeling of being fraudulent that you would speak to people that you hadn't told and they'd be like oh, how are you going? Oh yeah, things are great, you know, and that not being able to be your true self was really quite taxing. But at the same time you couldn't just I wouldn't have felt comfortable going around and telling everyone either, because you do kind of hope that you get a resolution.

Brenton Rickard: 39:55

So, and I guess from a from a mental health standpoint you know I'm Ollie, was was three months old when I got told, so you kind of have a young child and that has its challenges. Covid's happening, so you know Emily's home 24 7. I work from home. So there was a a whole combination of factors that made it, combination of factors that made it challenging. And then there's the fact that I work in sport and my professional reputation will probably be ruined um by this all as well, and that I may not. You know the the day I got told I basically this at that time was doing multiple part-time contracts and I had to resign two of them those days because I couldn't perform the role, because I'd be working face-to-face with athletes, which you can't really do when you're under investigation for doping violations. So, yeah, so there's a whole range of factors and, you know, the stoic athlete in me kind of goes oh yeah, I'm looking after myself, I'm doing the and and there was that real realization, probably after a few months of actually no, I'm, I'm, I'm barely hanging on here. I really need some professional help, um, which I, which I sought and got, and you know, you combine that with you know, the, the love and care that between my wife and my family and and and the friends that knew gave me kind of gets you through. Um, but it's still. It's still a huge challenge and you know, I still remember that day that I basically spent an hour and a half calling each of the guys and explaining the situation to and and how hard that was and and and I guess the.

Brenton Rickard: 41:53

You kind of have the flip side of that, that when I was finally told that the case was being dropped after, you know, 19 months and and some of those things and and the emotions that come up with that, that there's. There's naturally an anger of having to endure such a thing just to to know what you've always known, that you know you didn't do anything wrong, you weren't guilty, you, you didn't cheat um. There's all those things and you know I've talked a little bit about in in recent times that I probably then spent the first, you know, 18 months, two years after being, after the case being dropped, you know, trying to reclaim what was taken from me, which is is not a not a healthy way to live either, like um. You know, the, the world swimming champs opportunity. I think I would have jumped at that either way, but I think my mentality was well, this is great.

Brenton Rickard: 42:55

You know, someone, you know this case tried to take swimming from me. I, I want to take it back and I want to go and and work in the, the um, in the industry again, in the sport again, so which, once again, I don't think. I think I would have done either way, but it's that mentality of no, this is a great opportunity. I want to make the most of this, you know. I want to be able to put on a great swimming event and make it not about me and my I guess, my baggage from that period and make it more about the opportunity and producing something great, which, once again, I think we did.

Brenton Rickard: 43:34

So there's some of those things that I've kind of become aware of and now just kind of going look, as much as I hate it, this, this doping saga, is part of my story. It's part of my history. Nothing I can do will erase that. All I can do now is just try to live the best I can, moving forward. That it's there. It happened and, yeah, I got through it. You know we ultimately got the outcome that I feel like I deserved and yeah, hopefully, yeah, I can just live the best life I can from that point onwards.

Danielle Spurling: 44:10

Well, I think those 2022 champs came along right at exactly the right time for you, because it sort of probably helped you. I'm putting words in your mouth, but a bit of closure and sort of a full circle, and then you probably felt like that was such a success. You could then move on yeah, yeah, absolutely it was.

Brenton Rickard: 44:29

It was one of those things that there was such a cathartic effect of being at a pool and being happy and proud and and that's really something that I felt for a long time I wasn't sure I'd ever be able to do to walk into, you know, an Olympic trials and just to spectate and actually feel okay to be there or or to dive into a pool and just be happy to be in the water again. So there was certainly a cathartic and closure effect of of that that world champs and I let you go.

Danielle Spurling: 45:04

I wanted to get your perspective on the form strokes that the Aussies slam in Paris. So, aside from Kayleigh and Zach, we were sort of a little down on the table in a lot of our form races and I wondered what your perspective was and what you think we need to do in Australia to change that before Brisbane.

Brenton Rickard: 45:23

Yeah, it's an interesting question and I can't say I well, I probably noticed what you're talking about, but I can't say I've got any real great solutions. I'm probably not close enough to the sport to do that. And it's one of those ones that you kind of see and you go.

Brenton Rickard: 45:42

There's clearly parts that are working, like, like you say, kaylee was once again out of this amazing good yeah, zach zach was was excellent, that 200 brushstroke and and I I think I got to give some credit to matt temple as well in the hundred fly and and and emma, but but there were some events that you just kind of like.

Brenton Rickard: 46:02

You know, how are we going to get you know, some of these events were times people were swimming yeah, 15, 20 years ago, and that the world of swimming continues to march forward and we've got to be part of that progression as well. So how do we find the right athletes and get them the right training to progress? And, yeah, as I said, I don't really have the answers. The one thing I'm a big believer in is that swimming training should be, you know, horses for courses, for lack of a better phrase that. You know, training for breaststroke isn't necessarily the same as training for for freestyle, you know, even if the distance is the same and, and I think, even to like, we obviously did a bit of work, men's breaststroke and women's backstroke at quite similar times. So at different, different points through my career, we, you know, men's men's breaststroke and women's backstrokers would would kind of train together, but even then the the physiology difference between the strokes is quite pronounced. So so you, while you swim similar times and therefore you might be able to do certain things on similar time time basis, it doesn't always necessarily reflect the, the strokes. So I think I think that continued development of personalized training or personalized stroke training is really important.

Brenton Rickard: 47:32

I think the other part is um, you know, it's probably me with my breaststroke hat is, you know, form strokes, breaststroke and butterfly in particular. They're incredibly technical, like if, if your rhythm's not quite right, it can go pear-shaped very quickly, and so that constant need for technical work and to be technically on point, you know, on your good days, but probably even more so on your on your bad days, if you can swim well when you're not feeling great or you're not quite quite quite there, that's going to lead to always being able to swim fast or swim well when it matters. So to me that's probably the other part, just that that need for, I guess, specialized training for those strokes and and that constant technical, technical eye for those form strokes as well yeah, well, maybe mel marshall coming to the Gold Coast might be, because she's obviously worked with Adam Peaty, so maybe that will be an injection for our form strokes.

Brenton Rickard: 48:31

Yeah, he's hoping yeah absolutely.

Danielle Spurling: 48:35

And one last thing. I don't know whether you can answer this, but I know obviously you're working with Commonwealth Games. I was speaking to Moesha Johnson yesterday and she mentioned that there's no open water at the Commonwealth Games. I was speaking to Moesha Johnson yesterday and she mentioned that there's no open water at the Commonwealth Games.

Brenton Rickard: 48:48

No, there's only. I don't think they've ever had open water at the Commonwealth Games. It's probably a number of factors that I guess gets reviewed when events are put forward, and part of it is the costs and challenges of putting on the event. Part of it can be depth of field and I know, having spoken to the World Aquatic guys recently, that they're actually the quality and depth of field across the world and I guess Commonwealth Nations has greatly improved the last few years and so you know you probably look 10, 12 years ago and it would be, you know, your australia's, your great, your british territories and your canada and new zealand would be the main countries doing it, whereas now there's probably more spread of countries participating. So the case is probably stronger than ever.

Brenton Rickard: 49:42

But to this point, yeah, but the cost of, I guess all the requirements for an open water swim and um and the challenges with, with athletes participating from the full range of commonwealth countries, has probably been part of the story. So, um, yeah, we'll. We'll see whether it, uh, it comes up for consideration. 2026 is about finding, finding a host and and and running a games. But I think, moving forward, what a games might look like is is definitely um going to be revitalized and and revisited yeah, no, that's that sounds good.

Danielle Spurling: 50:22

Well, thank you so, brenton, for joining us on the podcast today. I really appreciate hearing all about your swimming journey and your candour and best wishes for finding a venue for those Commonwealth Games.

Brenton Rickard: 50:35

Thank you very much.

Danielle Spurling: 50:37

Okay, bye, bye, take care, bye Till next time. Happy swimming and bye for now.